Here’s some actual artistic activism. Indian filmmaker Parvez Sharma’s releasing his examination of gay Muslims, Jihad for Love. Rather than using the more bellicose of jihad’s multiple meanings – all of which invoke “struggle” – Sharma’s looking at the “internal struggle” happening within gay Muslims in India, South Africa, Pakistan and Egypt.
Of his ground breaking project, Sharma (pictured) says:
This film is a remarkable opportunity to change consciousness. The next few years are going to see me and the characters in this film, engaged in discussions, using the film as a platform and as a door into opening people’s minds, into opening people’s hearts.
I am just tired of people saying that Islam and homosexuality don’t go together and that there are no gay and lesbian Muslims. I don’t believe that, I have taken my camera into these communities and I have documented these lives for the last six years.
Six years? That’s far longer than it takes to allegedly burn an antique Q’uran and, we think, far more admirable.
Of the many people Sharma spoke with, the most shocking must be Imam Mohsin Hendricks of South Africa. A religious leader, Mohsin came out of the closet expecting a world of pain. Surprisingly, he found Sharma’s welcoming cameras, instead. And he’s thankful for the opportunity to open people’s eyes, “For me it’s important to talk about it at this point because some people are being alienated and ostracized from communities.” Even the gay ones…
Dawster
ooo… My dear, sweetie, A. it’s NEVER too late for a good, juicy, “i told you so.”
in six years, Michael Lucas’ duckbill lips will be down to his knees.
fantasy aside, this will be something that i will be watching. thanks for sharing.
afrolito
This film will most likely never be shown in any muslim country in the mideast, where it’s most needed.
Charley
Why are their no Gay muslims at any gay pride march?? Bunch of cowards? There is no gay liberation in the Muslim community. This film is propaganda and wishful thinking, like a travel brochure. Michael Lucas is the voice of reason and judges Islam for what it is, out to take over the world and destroy those who do not take up the words of Mohammed and the Koran. 9/11 happened because of Mohammed, and his words that said Infidels should be put in a pile and burned. Wake up. Read Carmen Bin Laden’s book. You will see the real purpose of Islam.
BillieXX
Charley,
You are a book burner. Enough said.
Charley
He was arrested in a gay bar in Cairo for being gay. Where is the tolerant attitude towards gays in the Islamic world. He just wants to sell his film here in America to a bunch of delusioned black gay men who took up Islam, thinking they were getting though being a gay Muslim. What a bunch of superficial fucks. The two cultures don’t mix. Liberated Gay Black Americans and repressed Gay Muslims. Farrakhan of the “Nation of Islam” here in America even hates gays.
Charley
Someone should burn the book that caused 9/11. You are going to burn by nuclear explosion in the near future because of that fucking book and what it teaches.
BillieXX
Charley,
You are a funny nut case. Why don’t you join other book burners and you’ll be happy. Take care brother. I’m done.
hisurfer
Here we go again.
1. I’ve seen gay muslims at every Pride event I’ve been to.
2. There are gay rights movements in Turkey, Indonesia, Lebanon, and – shockingly – Iraq.
Charley
BillieXX
You got your freedom through MLK who got his teaching from Gandhi, not the bible, now you want to be a muslim. No, you are not Mohammed Ali’s daughter on “Dancing with the Stars”, even though you want to be. Grow up.
Dawster
the book that caused 9/11 was the bible – which gave people in america a superiority complex, arrogance, and “god-given right” to go into other countries and fuck with their lives. we’ve been doing that for many years, but since Vietnam our foreign policy has been going straight down with every bible welding president since.
America and it’s gun-toting, bible waving ways taught Osama bin Laden… because the Russians were considered evil, communist, and… not god-fearing Christians.
so… i’m guessing what you’re saying is we should burn the bible?
Charley
Hisurfer
B.S. I have been to many pride events, NYC, SF, LA and never saw one gay muslim group. Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are not muslims, the burka although black is slightly different. Only a slit for the eyes.
Charley
Dawster,
Read your Koran.
The part nearer to Muhammad’s death, he gets a bit inward looking and suggests that his personal enemies, those who have not accepted him will burn in hell. In fact, burning in hell seems to be the suggested fate for all unbelievers and homosexuals
BillieXX
Charley,
Aside from being a nutcase, you are also a bloody racist! I got my freedom from MLK? Last time I checked my freedom was actually from the laws and not a man (who had to teach the country that it had to live by its rhetoric). Also you don’t know much about MLK because he would have told you his debt to Ghandi and the Bible. Why am I wasting my time talking to you? Before you burn some more books maybe you should read them and learn something! Kisses.
Charley
I would have edited the Koran, but the valuable one that was given to my late wife by the King of Jordan, was in Arabic written on unborn goat skin, so I did not have a translator to point out the violent parts. Therefore I burned the whole enchilada. Glad I did. My head would be chopped off in Islamic countries, but here in America nothing happened because we are a democracy, not a Theocracy, that you want. What I did was to prove that we are a free country, freedom of speech, freedom to not believe in a religion if we so desire. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and it should be respected, as does Michael Lucas. You black American moslems ought to go to Palestine to see how real moslems treat gays.
hisurfer
“B.S. I have been to many pride events, NYC, SF, LA and never saw one gay muslim group.” And I have been to many events and never seen you. Ergo, by your own logic, you don’t exist.
Charley
Hisurfer,
At least I show my face on my webpage. You have a big hat over yours. Must be dishonest, still in the closet.
Charley
Hisurfer,
and it gets better you closet creep. You say you are working for the “government”. Tap tap tap in the toilets.
Charley
Advertise on Queerty? I didn’t because they are like their mentor the late Leo Lerman of Vogue. Lerman’s boss at Conde Nast, Alexander Liberman who visited me in Palm Beach every winter, thought Lerman was an angry unattractive American self hating Jew much like the editor of this blog.
hisurfer
Calm down, viejo. There are dozens of shots of me on my website.
It must be rough being for you, living in a world of delusional black men, ugly self-hating jews, and murderous muslims. I don’t really fit in any of those categories, but I’m sure you’ll come up with one to place me in (Closet creep was a miss. Try again). Is this part of your art, your own little Guernica, to show contempt for everyone who isn’t a mirror-image of yourself?
Is there anybody you do like?
Dawster
“Qur’an” – with a “qu” and a little apostrophe.
i’m glad this movie is made. people are so quick to point the finger, but they never realize that basic human patterns of control and hate exist no matter what the doctrinal basis of it is. so this book teaches a slightly different view of Noah’s flood than that book. both stories were stolen from Mesopotamian folklore.
the assumption (as made by the masterful Micheal Lucas as he hung himself publicly) is that certain humans will progress while others do not based off the book they hold in their hands. many christians HAVE NOT progressed, and their behavior patterns reflect that of a person 100 years in the past. Islam is the same. but, again, the “all or nothing” attitude limits the sight of those that find it easier to be blind.
for the record, i objected to the burning of the Qur’an out of respect for history and art, not religion – although i understand Andrew’s point of burning a whole religion is presumptuous. if islam were to come to an end tomorrow, and never again be practiced, there would STILL need to be a history of the book, it’s poetry, it’s lessons, and it’s existence. it has merit to the grander scheme of history even though in our short lifetime it’s being used as a scapegoat and the root of all evil. Hitler used the same technique with the Jews and Jewish books. The Taliban used the same mentality in destroying temples and statues in Afghanistan, and Ahmadinejad uses the same technique when talking about Christians today. Burning a Qur’an is no different.
nothing is new, and it certainly want “art” (do it in a public square on top of the crucifix dressed as an aborted baby and we’ll talk). it’s the same droning rhetoric no matter who uses it.
you know what’s odd? any book/CD/publication that has ever been burned, offered as a sacrifice to the heavens with smoke (if you will), always comes back stronger than before… whether it’s Ann Rynd or the Dixie Chicks.
Dawster
my last post isn’t showing up… hmm… must be allah.
Dawster
“Qur’an” – with a “qu” and a little apostrophe.
people are so quick to point the finger, but they never realize that basic human patterns of control and hate exist no matter what the doctrinal basis of it is. so this book teaches a slightly different view of Noah’s flood than that book. both stories were stolen from Mesopotamian folklore.
the assumption (as made by the masterful Micheal Lucas as he hung himself publicly) is that certain humans will progress while others do not based off the book they hold in their hands. many christians HAVE NOT progressed, and their behavior patterns reflect that of a person 100 years in the past. Islam is the same. but, again, the “all or nothing” attitude limits the sight of those that find it easier to be blind.
Dawster
for the record, i objected to the burning of the Qur’an out of respect for history and art, not religion – although i understand Andrew’s point of burning a whole religion is presumptuous. if islam were to come to an end tomorrow, and never again be practiced, there would STILL need to be a history of the book, it’s poetry, it’s lessons, and it’s existence. it has merit to the grander scheme of history even though in our short lifetime it’s being used as a scapegoat and the root of all evil. Hitler used the same technique with the Jews and Jewish books. The Taliban used the same mentality in destroying temples and statues in Afghanistan, and Ahmadinejad uses the same technique when talking about Christians today. Burning a Qur’an is no different.
nothing is new, and it certainly want “art” (do it in a public square on top of the crucifix dressed as an aborted baby and we’ll talk). it’s the same droning rhetoric no matter who uses it.
you know what’s odd? any book/CD/publication that has ever been burned, offered as a sacrifice to the heavens with smoke (if you will), always comes back stronger than before… whether it’s Ann Rynd or the Dixie Chicks.
BillieXX
Charley,
Morning you old crazy book burner. I’m not a “black moslem” but what can I expect from such a racist kook like you. Hugs!
Dawster
for the record, i objected to the burning of the Qur’an out of respect for history and art, not religion. if islam were to come to an end tomorrow, and never again be practiced, there would STILL need to be a history of the book, it’s poetry, and it’s lessons. it has merit to the grander scheme of history even though in our short lifetime it’s being used as a scapegoat and the root of all evil. Hitler used the same technique with the Jews and Jewish books. The Taliban used the same mentality in destroying temples and statues in Afghanistan, and Ahmadinejad uses the same technique when talking about Christians today. Burning a Qur’an is no different.
it certainly want “art” (do it in a public square on top of the crucifix dressed as an aborted baby and we’ll talk). it’s the same droning rhetoric no matter who uses it.
any book/CD/publication that has ever been burned, offered as a sacrifice to the heavens with smoke (if you will), always comes back stronger than before… whether it’s Ann Rynd or the Dixie Chicks.
Charley
Dawster,
How can you admire a book that was the cause of 9/11? The bible is the cause of Fred Phelps and the millions who want us dead due to the passages in Leviticus. You seem to think your Qur’an was the last one on earth that I burned, therfore history will be denied this mythological peice of crap. I am not a Christian crusader out of the middle ages that burned the library at Alexandria, Egypt losing ancient knowledge to civilization. I burned the Koran (American word), as an art performance piece to show that I lived in a democracy and I could burn it. There should not be laws made that prohibits burning “holy books”. There is a Gideon bible in every motel room in America, except Marriott, which has the Book of Mormon in bedside stands. All those books say we should be stoned to death, even though we paid to sleep in those rooms. Our constitution allows us the freedom of religion or of no religion. You seem to forget that two people lost their lives in Amsterdam, one for a cartoon, the other a gay man running for public office who spoke out against treatment of gays in Islam.
Dawster
(1) i didn’t say that i admired it… i said it’s a part of history.
(2) i do think that the Qur’an and the Bible are exactly the same, very few differences between the ideology and the written mythos of each (one savior who is martyred… yadda yadda).
(3) you didn’t burn the bible, you edited it… which shows you think the idea as a whole is okay, but it just needs to grow and change with the times. this would be considered progressive thinking. you also did it in public, as a manner of “performance art”.
(4) you could have EASILY done the same thing with the Qur’an (since they are practically the same book)… but you cowardly hid behind closed doors and burned the WHOLE THING, in private. if the “art” was to cause question… then you succeeded.
Dawster
(5) the book did not cause 9/11, no more than the Bible caused the Crusades. the PEOPLE of EXTREME BELIEF AND FEAR caused these atrocities. until you burn the Torah in public (the basis of both the Bible AND the Qur’an), you really haven’t solved the problem, have you. Burn the Torah… THAT is the book that started it all. while you’re at it, you might as well and go the Mel Gibson route and blame the Jews for everything. after all, it was Abraham that cast out Hagar and Ishmael… causing the separation that would soon be Muslims (followers of Ishmael) and the Jews (followers of Isaac).
but you didn’t.
Dawster
(6) if you want to blame the people, or the politics, i have NO PROBLEM with that. but generalizations are for people too dense to understand the subtle differences in life, religion, geographic locations, and different TYPES of muslims and the variations of Islam.
(people that dense should do something simple in life… like fuck for a living… something a house cat can do.)
(7) the problem with white Europeans is that there is a Michael Lucas-ish “us and them” mentality. the Netherlands have gone out of their way to pass laws against muslims. Germany has too. many Europeans are suspicious and fearful of ALL muslims… and they act like it. this causes retaliation and “home-grown” terrorism.
America doesn’t have that. we are leaving the muslim community alone. we haven’t passed laws making lite of their religion. the terrorists we have need to be flown in from other countries in order to attack us on American soil. this does not include the rich white wannabes.
Dawster
i will never support the Qur’an, I will never support the Bible, and don’t even get me started on the Book of Mormon (the only religion in the world that can be proven wrong historically, theoretically, and scientifically).
the Torah started this whole mess (something that you’ve avoided burning if you REALLY want to combat sexual repression, woman being treated as property, and stolen folklore).
I will never hold one religion as worse than the other. it’s arrogant and simplistic. people determine their own path. people will take words and turn them into hate. people turn words and turn them into fire. people take words and use them for control.
and yet, you only blame the words…
i think i have explained my thought (nauseatingly, i’m sure). BUT, if you questions… please follow the link in my name and e-mail me.
Charley
You can blame the Torah as the start of Abrahamic religions. But in Israel, they have moved on in a democracy, and the gay pride parade there is unsurpassed in freedom of expression. Out of respect for the stuggle of Jews in the holocaust, I would never burn their mythology, because most think that if Moses god were real, he would not have allowed Hitler to kill 6 million of their people.
We have not moved out of superstition and bronze age thinking about god in this country due to the bible.
Bush thinks that Christianity can be pushed on Islam. This is the cause of terrorism and it is getting worse. Because a gay muslim loves a gay jew, as perhaps in the film above, does not make any difference to Islam or the Pope. The only people seeing this film will be gay people, and that is like preaching to the choir.
Gay complacency of those “holy books” preaching our demise out of the dark ages don’t make sense, and the extremists point to those passages as the word of god. You have to face facts. This why Ian McKellan rips pages out of the Gideon bibles accross the country, and he knows a thing or two about mythology and the power it has to corrupt reason.
Mein Kampf is banned in most civilized European Countries, yet it is the best seller in Palestine.
Yes, it was not a religion, but it was Hitler’s bible and followed by the German people as a philosophy.
Koran should also be banned.
Charley
It is a mystery to me why gays still hold on to “faith based” thinking that they hope is going to mediate Islamic gays with Christian gays. Mitchell Gold a New York Jew started “Faith in America”, putting up billboards around Indiana and naming a former Southern Baptist preacher as head of the non-profit. It has caused more trouble than good. I guess his furniture business is going broke, with the housing market being what it is and foriegn imports of leather club chairs. “Faith” based groups are out to get that government “faith based” money. Can’t belive he thinks Yahweh from the Torah is helping him, but childhood indoctrination is a powerful thing.
Dawster
i have nothing more to add, Charley. I’m glad your generation had it’s chance, but it is on it’s way out. I understand the passion on both sides of the coin… but i don’t believe either of them are right or helpful. in all honesty, there is no difference between your words and anything that comes flying out of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s mouth. It’s exactly the same. the direction is different, but the spray itself is the same.
the passion is the same. i certainly get it.
hopefully the next generations will not be so general and polarized, or offensively glossy. no religion on earth except Buddhism accepts homosexuals. a few are starting to change that, very quickly considering the last 10,000 years of human history. i have more faith in human evolution than i do in religion.
we’ve come a long way, but we need to give it more time. it won’t be in your lifetime… it may not even be in my lifetime, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
Charley
Another of my generation disagrees with you. Senator Gravel, a man I admire and I have given the maximum amount allowed under law to a political candidate. Your complacency to ignorance is beginning to show. You must not live outside sophisticated and educated New York.
Travel the rest of the country and you will appreciate Senator Gravel’s ramark as follows.
“I am prepared to tell you that Americans are getting fatter and dumber. I have no problem saying that. I’ve also said that the Americans are going to get the government they deserve.”
Charley
Dawster,
Precisely my point. The dark ages were caused by religion, and free thinkers like Voltaire, Jefferson, and others rejecting religion brought on the age of enlightenment through reason. If you and Queerty are examples of where civilization is headed, with your cutesy and some what mean pop culture blogs, Jusin, Brittany, et al, there is no hope for the human race. When you get a dirty bomb in New York placed there by a Koran extremist group like Al Queda, don’t say I didn’t warn you for not speaking out and educating others about the possibility of a dark age.
Dawster
I live in Texas…
and when i travel, it’s to Europe or Canada.
and i will don your confusion of my location and my words as a compliment. thank you.
Charley
This is my last comment. I have better things to do like writing my friend and neighbor in Dublin, California, Chris Larsen, the CEO of E-Loan, requesting that his company discontinue advertising with Jossip, as Queerty has insulted me on their blog continously because of my friendship with Michael Lucas, an intelligent gay activist who is trying to make things better for gay people worldwide.
hisurfer
Dawster, for the most part I agree with you, but you just hit on one of my pet peeves … the idea that Buddhism is somehow more enlightened than Western religions. Nine countries are more than 50% Buddhist (Thailand, Cambodia, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Tibet, Laos, Vietnam, Japan); only Thailand and Cambodia show any respect to gays (though I don’t know about Laos). Japanese gays are invisible. Being queer will get you life in Myanmar, and a jail term in Bhutan. The Dalai Lama accepts gays in the West (where the money is), but doesn’t tolerate it among Tibetans.
Buddhism fascinates me … but I don’t see it as more advanced than the Semitic religions, and I wonder why so many in the West do.
Dawster
oooo… hisurfer… i NEVER said that Buddhism is “more enlightened”!! i never said that i agreed with them either!! it is a big pet peeve of mine as well!
i’m sorry if that came across that way. and don’t get me started on the Dalai Lama and Tibetan slavery. i completely understand where you are coming from.
well, i have to go (INSERT unprovable accomplishments, inflated perception of writer, and ego strokes to give faux-weight to opinions above and worth to one’s life HERE).
BillieXX
My. My. Good old Charley. Aside from being a book burning racist, he is also a bag of wind who name drops. Thanks for the giggles.
hisurfer
Sorry Dawster – I thought you were going there & jumped the gun.
Bye bye Charley.
You do realize that trying to stop Queerty’s funding because they insulted you completely negates all of your claims to be a defender of freedom of speech? Careful next time you decide to burn a book or work of art, because you can trust that we will be bringing this silly little threat up.
hisurfer
ah dude (Charley), you are so fucking lame. I just googled Chris Larsen. He sold E-Loan over a year ago.
Charley
hisurfer,
I remember he sold it. Larsen is a major shareholder in E-Loan and has power and influence throughout the banking and investment world.
Charley
I was speaking out of the heat of the moment in argument. I wouldn’t bother my acquaintances to stop advertising on this piece of shit. The only reason I came here in the first place was because Queerty sponsored an event for Mike Gravel in New York. That’s before Queerty started attacking me due to the Michael Lucas interview. Before then we were friends and the gallery I had a show at in New York were in negotiation to advertise through Jossip. They read the Queerty attacks on me and changed their mind.
Charley
However, due to Queerty’s attacks on me, it brought more attention to the show than any paid advertisement would have done. The show was a great success and we raised alot of money for a gay legal charity. Thanks Queerty. Keep the venom spewing.
Charley
What’s wrong with Jossip’s revenue? Queerty is one problem. It attracts dumb gay bloggers.
Compare to other gay blogs.
“About 30,000 visitors a day, Jossip’s traffic is a mere 15 percent of Gawker’s. Hauslaib was generating a “comfortable five-figure income,†but certainly not millions. He’d hit a glass ceiling, in a medium where there weren’t supposed to be any limits.”
Charley
Good article on blogs and what it takes to make it financially viable. Queerty is a C-list blog due partly to it’s editor’s arrogance.
http://nymag.com/news/media/15967/index4.html
Dawster
Charles, i’m amazed that you would expect someone like me, or others here to sit idly by while you link everyone who doesn’t agree with you into one long Nazi-forced chain gang. this George Bush “with me or against me” mentality is unbecoming and counterproductive. I see why it is i’ve never heard of you, and why you are not actually taken seriously.
but hey… maybe this whole thread is “performance art” for you, yes? at least you had to balls to do it in public!
Dawster
p.s. – i think most people here “blog” about themselves and their lives in order to connect with our extended family. it’s the new way of uniting the gay community as a whole, or at least make us all more accessible to each other. Would you say there is anything wrong with making the gay community wider, stronger, and more reachable?
I consider myself a political satirist more than a “blogger”. I wish I could write all day and get paid for it, but I don’t (unless there’s anyone hiring??). I have other work i must attend to during the week. I am not paid for my opinions, and I have no advertising. Everything I write is from the heart (and from Texas… did we go over that?).
just, as a matter of my own “art”, i’m taking a stand for your shackled “group B”, stepping out… and saying “no†– I will not be treated like this. you can disrespect your deceased wife, and the king of Jordan, you can disrespect history, religion, and pop culture… but you will not disrespect me or my friends. You will not turn us all into a shade of puke grey. If you are not religious, quit acting like a religion.
and ss a matter of my own “artâ€, I will not stand for an activist who polarizes me or the community for which I belong.
Charley
What I am objecting to is you are a follower of this blog that disrespects gay people.
Looking at a Queerty post from May 8, for example, you can find a story about the murder of Harley Walker titled thusly: “Body of Missing ’Mo Found.†There are times when joking is called for but other times when it is inexcusably vulgar and tasteless. Queerty’s Editorial Director David Hauslaib and its Editor Andrew Belonsky should in the future definitely consider how a murdered gay person’s loved ones would feel upon seeing such a heading as “Body of Missing ’Mo Found.â€
A whole wealth of sites that nourish rather than mock the gay community is to be found on the Internet, so why would anybody frequent the despicable Queerty, which desecrates the memory of a gay man stabbed to death by saying, “Hardly the penetration he expected when he logged onto that website�
Dawster
Deflect much? (known now as the JaRule technique)
i don’t understand your complaint about the article’s title other than maybe “‘mo” is considered offensive or a joke (i’m not sure to who… but it’s not the first time i’ve heard it). Times have changed, Charles. “homo” and “queer” don’t mean what they used to.
you make fun of people who blog popular culture, but keeping up with popular culture tells you where the potential civil rights problems exist, and which arguments are now dead issues. this allows for more effective, efficient, and productive activism.
but, if that is your complaint (from four months ago), then state it. it doesn’t justify you’re acting like the very people you despise.
Charley
What about a joke about penetration of a knife which killed someone??
You deserve a better blog. Many see the value of my actions, so you, the little surfer guy, and the XXX silly black guy on this thread are like me going back to grammer school. I suggest you get enlightened from these blogs which are constructive to the gay community.
Signorile Show
Americablog
Atrios
Blogactive
Firedoglake
Good As You
Huffington Post
Joe.My.God
Daily Kos
Pam’s House Blend
Queerty
Rawstory
Towleroad
Washington Note
Charley
You deserve a better blog respectful of the gay community.
try these
Signorile Show
Americablog
Atrios
Blogactive
Firedoglake
Good As You
Huffington Post
Joe.My.God
Daily Kos
Pam’s House Blend
Queerty
Rawstory
Towleroad
Washington Note
Charley
Delete Queerty from the above group. That was my old list.
Dawster
i already read five of those. i Queerty would be the sixth.
and i should delete it because Queerty (1) practices free speech which you are against, (2) doesn’t pay attention to archaic insults which you still are affected by, and (3) disagrees with you which means they are bad for the gay community.
okay. i get it. any other American freedoms you would like to crush, Charles Ahmadinejad?
The world has moved forward, Charles… i suggest you do to. We have to be tolerant of each other if we expect the world to be tolerant of us. if we squash just one voice, we are no different than those that want to squash us.
Charley
To a young and sweet Christian Texan hick, Queerty is probably your cup of tea. Not to those in the intellectual world of the college educated who read books and the keep up with the New York Times.
Dawster
Charles… name calling is hardly intellectual.
your assumption is that i’ve lived in texas all my life is sweet thought… but untrue (especially since you originally thought i lived in New York City). Christian? please… you are really pulling at straws here.
Sir, what you did was mean. you tried to set up Muslims to riot, not at your burning of the Qur’an, but at the PERCEPTION of you burning the Qur’an. whether you burned it or not is irrelevant (it being behind close doors), but if Muslims THOUGHT you burned it… they would riot on the scale that they rioted against the Dutch cartoons.
well, it didn’t work. contrary to your belief, Muslims do not equal idiots. there was no press. there was no riot. no Kentucky Fried Chickens were burned to the ground.
you tried to set up an entire religion and nothing happened. Yes, I found that mean… not the burning of the Qur’an itself (although i hope you are not that disrespectful of your wife), or that you probably did it without proper ventilation (very unsafe), but that your intent was to cause an exploitation of Islam.
I’m sorry it didn’t get the reaction you wanted. don’t take it out on the gay community. should i still be thought of as a “sweet christian texan hick” if i’m calling you out on your blatant bigotry?
Charley
I have uploaded my Koran and Bible burning performance piece on YouTube. It will be up soon. I may get a fatwa, or maybe not. I am proud of what I did as a memorial to those who died on 9/11. The words in the Koran are the engine for Al Queda, like it or not. Read it you will see. Also go to YouTube and type in Koran. Much is said there.
I don’t want to keep this going nor do I want to hurt you. You are young, sweet, somewhat innocent, and don’t really know yet what you stand for in your life.
fakechildhood
“You can blame the Torah as the start of Abrahamic religions. But in Israel, they have moved on in a democracy, and the gay pride parade there is unsurpassed in freedom of expression.”
I LOLed at that sentence. Israel is not a democracy. it is a racist state. just because they have gay prides does not mean that the Israeli state isnt committing genocide. ok. thanks.
Dawster
was the Qur’an responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing? was the Qur’an responsible for the 1996 Olympic bombing in Atlanta? was the Qur’an responsible for the 1998 Birmingham abortion clinic bombingor or the the 167 other attacks on clinics in the past 15 years?
Was the Qur’an responsible for the Columbine massacre or the Virgina Tech slaughter? was the Qur’an responsible for the avoidable 1836 deaths from Hurricane Katrina? was the Qur’an responsible for death of millions of our brothers from AIDS in this country alone since 1981?
you intuition has been so completely wrong about me, one wonders just what other things you have been wrong about. i appreciate your passion, but i’m glad that the many young gay activists that come after me will no longer have the influence of such hatred, narrow mindedness, and old school confusion about what it means to be a human being on the planet earth.
Charley
I feel sorry for you Islamic supporters. If you love Islamic religion so much, why don’t you move to the Middle East. Afganistan loves gay men. They push stone walls over on them in the name of Allah, straight out of the Koran.
We are talking about the Al Queda getting it’s instruction and motivation from the Koran. I said nothing about abortion clinics. That was Christian based.
Dawster
I never remember saying i supported Islam – where in the world would you get that idea? you know, if you bothered paying attention, you would see how silly it is that you said that.
see… i stand FOR equal rights, for ALL mankind – but especially for homosexual rights – a thorn to ALL religions. you don’t stand FOR anything… you only stand AGAINST things… like Islam.
you group everyone of one religion together as if they all think, feel, believe, and worship the same way.
who was it that said, “The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category”?
Dawster
oh… that’s right…. ADOLF HITLER.
Bill Perdue
I can’t imagine anyone in real life being as stupid and arrogant as this Charlie character. Did some one invent him to give rightwing fatcats a bad name? Fessup. Who did it?
Well, if not then lets discuss his facisnaiton with the koran. The koran, the bible, the book of moron and the torah are irrational, poorly written science fiction. Reading the koran did not lead to 9-11, even though Bin Laden’s group of reactionary islamists committed that awful crime.
Al Qaida got it’s money, and most critically, was able to motivate the worst suicide squads since the Kamikaze attacks because of the dismay and hatred most Arabs and muslims develop seeing the murderous conditions imposed on Palestinians by zionist colonists.
(I know that you’re going to bleat that I’m an anti Semite because I’m critical of zionism and US support for it but don’t bother, that doesn’t work anymore. People know too much.)
Before the events leading up to 9-11 the Intifada was in full swing with attacks against Palestinian civilians and suicide bombers exploding themselves in Jewish neighborhoods all the time. The zionists had the unqualified support of Bush, Cheney and Powell, who even pulled out the US negotiators trying to broker an end to the fighting. This convinced millions in the region that the US was their implacable enemy. Al Qaida opportunistically took this as an opening to commit murder on a huge scale and claim leadership of a jihad.
What followed was the horrific slaughter of almost 3,000 civilians who died jumping, in searing heat, choked by deadly gases or crushed by debris. Tragically, most of them were working people, including firemen. (I’ll leave it to the bankers and financiers to mourn their own dead.)
A similar scenario is being played out now in Iraq (and soon in Iran). Because of Bush’s unlawful, near genocidal oil piracy Iraq has become a huge breeding ground and training center for terrorists. I fear for what will happen to working people here when they retake Iraq and turn their eyes west. I remember my uncle saying that his WWII bombing raids, even if they killed civilians, were OK by the air crews because they’d heard about the crimes of Nazi and Japanese imperialists.
The Congress could put an end to this madness by impeaching Bush and Cheney, withdrawing all the troops immediately and convening an International War Crimes Tribunal, but don’t get you hopes up for them growing spines anytime soon.
hisurfer
“The koran, the bible, the book of moron and the torah are irrational, poorly written science fiction.” I disagree. Have you read Robert Alter’s translation of 1 and 2 Samuel? He uses multiple sources, and presents a far more complex and vivid portrait of David than anything I remember from catechism. I’d argue that it is one of the great pieces of ancient literature, certainly on par with the Odyssey.
It’s also a rather strong indictment of kings. I wish I had it here to quote for you (cause I think you’d appreciate it); the crux is, Yahweh warns through the prophets that a king will only enslave a people, and that the Israelites will lose their freedom if they name a king.
Ecclesiastes and the Psalms stand strong as poetry.
And my Arabic is limited, but fluent speakers all tell me that the language in the Qu`ran is sublime & doesn’t hold up at all in translation.
The Book of Mormon I’ll give you … I’m at a loss how anyone can read it and not laugh. Lump that one in the pile with Battlefield Earth.
Off topic, but of interest – some of the biggest funders of Zionism are southern evangelical Christians. The logic seems to be, Israel needs to conquer the Arabs in order to bring on Armageddon. And though I agree that they are all batshit crazy, that doesn’t mean that the source material isn’t full of beauty.
Bill Perdue
hisurfer
I’ll admit to a wee pinch of exaggeration, and that I haven’t actually read these books (our bibles were in Latin and we weren’t encouraged to bother ourselves overly much with the holy mysteries) but I think that aside from some poetry etc, they’re ahistorical mush.
I prefer the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Iliad and etc. becasue they feature less sky god stuff and more guy stuff. But I’ll check out the Altar translation, I’m always up for a good read.
Christian
“The next few years”? If they survive that long. It took them six years to collect material in the safer countries, India, which has only a muslim minority, Pakistan, which is a big friend of the USA, South-Africa, which has only a muslim minority and severe laws against any discrimination, and Egypt, which is anxious to remain safe for the millions of budgetary very necessary tourists. Maybe the film makers weren’t even noticed. Let them try the same in Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Libya, to name a few. Then we’ll talk again. If they survive.
Charley
You people are not well read. To understand the power of the Koran with Bin Laden, you could read Carmen Bin Laden’s book (his former sister in law, and Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and several others. You people don’t know jack shit. What an ignorant blog this is, surely the most ignorant on the Internet. You fucks have the intellect of “Superbad”, funny but not an asset to the advancement of civilization. I am 73 and not much longer to live. You should heed my words or you will be living under the control of Bin Ladin like leadership. As I am writing, the dollar is dropping on the world market, and their maybe a major USA depression like the 30’s. You all will be in soup lines. The economy is based on plastic credit cards and loans to those who can’t pay them back, thanks to the Republican leadership. You spoiled naive people haven’t suffered. Just wait. Maybe it will wake you up.
Dawster
Charlie… catch up, sweetie.
it won’t be like the 30’s at all because we are less dependent on domestic resources. in fact, the USA has already gone through this same exact scenario (scare tactics and all) during Vietnam. the economy will be taking the same path, the country will be tired, torn in two, and completely worn, and some president will come in a use it to their advantage. history repeats itself… horridly so.
which, i’m surprised that someone who lived through the 1968-1974 era wouldn’t recognize it immediately… the similarities between now and then.
you can blame the Qur’an for all of life’s problems… just like Hitler blamed the Jews. until you understand that there are 3 different belief structures in Islam (and each of THOSE have different variants), you will be the one that is naive. you can’t blame an entire religion for the actions of the few.
while you’re at it, blame all christians for the actions of Fred Phelps. or think that all homosexuals want to wear women’s underwear and wear make-up and get sex changes. or think that all old people are senile and useless. or think that all artists are alcoholics. you can go ahead and generalize that all men or pigs, all Texans are hicks, all young people are uneducated, and all those that don’t agree with you are stupid.
generalizations are a flawed human thinking that is used when one can’t understand the subtle differences.
Dawster
the dropping of the American dollar is bad… i find it bothersome myself- i don’t like it one bit. Every time i travel across the pond, it takes more and more money.
however, it’s not all doom. with a lower dollar, imports will be more expensive, exports will be cheaper. people will not travel overseas as much, and will only travel in America. more people from other countries will vacation in America and spend their money here.
manufacturing will benefit, getting products out and around the world as more people on the global market will be buying american. tourism will benefit as other people spend more money here. more dollars will be circulating and more money will be coming in. for the time being… it’s not ALL bad.
the question is if we can have it turn around before going through the mid-70’s again.
Charley
This thread is supposed to be about the above film and a jab at my art. I want to see the film and then I will give my opionion. All this other conversation is off topic. Get back on your surfboards.
Dawster
surfboards? is you’re assumption is that all surfers are stupid or that all of us here are athletic? you have to start explaining your attempts to be bigoted, please. (i found it a complement as i have been loosing weight recently!)
the above film is to break generalizations. dangerous generalizations that you actually believe. you think there are no gay Muslims. you think that all Muslims will kill you. you think that all Muslims believe suicide of any kind is acceptable. you think all Muslims believe they will get 72 virgins if they die. you believe all Muslims are stuck in the dark ages.
some do. most do not. you don’t accept that.
that’s worrisome. you can’t blame any of us for reacting badly. do you know how many generalizations we’ve had to live through as homosexuals? (all fags have AIDS, all queers are pedophiles, all gays want to do is have sex in public toilets…).
and yet you have no problem doing it to others.
technically you didn’t actually do any “art” (or at least Micheal Lucas couldn’t explain what the art was during his interview)… you did SOMETHING behind closed doors. you could have burned a Qur’an… you could have masturbated on it. who knows?
500 people have videos on YouTube burning the Qur’an. at some point, one has to think this is unoriginal.
generalizations kill. it kills homosexuals in this country, not all of which get the press coverage of Matthew Shepherd. yet, in your mind, it’s okay to generalize. it’s okay to lump people together.
what’s worse… you think it’s okay to defend it.
Charley
What the fuck are you smoking down there in Texas? If I say the sky is blue, you have to pick blue apart. You are hilarious in your attempt to be a “gay activist”. You are just a punk smart ass. Also, you may be flirting with me because I am rich and powerful, and in some vicarious way you think this give you importance.
Dawster
the MAJOR ideological differences between the three different types of Islam is hardly picking “blue apart”. you honestly think all Muslims believe the same, don’t you?
you also think the Qur’an is the problem.
knowing the difference between degrees is efficient. and THAT’S the point. your “activism” is inefficient and counterproductive. you know this… and you do it anyway.
i don’t know that you’re rich. i seriously doubt anyone with your beliefs could actually MAKE their own money. maybe you did, maybe you just got lucky by connecting with a few good people. who knows? do i REALLY sound like i care? honestly?
i love this because your ASSUMPTIONS continue to be false (not just a little false, but WAY off)… and yet… you find the need to say them anyway.
you fail to see the actual tragedy here: every time you make a comment like the ones above, your art becomes less and less valuable.
Charley
Not that you read but look at pictures. If you want to understand me, then click on Charley and it leads you to my website. Then read the second article which will tell you about my art performances. My first piece, not filing IRS income taxes because my partner and I can’t get the same benefits in marriage as other couples is still open and I am facing prison.
You see, art is not just Picasso to hang as an original over the sofa, as you have posted on your webside. Art is about social justice, because it is up to the artist to make changes, as politicians and religions will not change.
Painting on canvas can only say so much, then one has to get into making bold statements. Michael Moore, and the German founder of the green party, artist Joseph Beuys are good examples of social sculpture. It’s ideas, rather than material objects. Jefferson was a great conceptual artist, and created the Constitution as a concept. Although it has never been seen as art, life is art, and how we create change for the good of mankind.
Dawster
Your ASSUMPTION is that i don’t read… even though i write considerably. keep the raw bigotry coming! (“click on Dawster and it lead you to my website”.)
a canvas can be limiting, unless you know what to do with it. “life is art” is something people say to make themselves feel better about not being creative (LOL).
But seriously, your “performance” here on this site diminishes any other “performance” you might have done. your intent, meaning, and heart is lost because you have this generalized look at Islam, the world, gay people, and life.
with each comment, your past “performances” look less like art… and more like indignant mechanics.
Dawster
that was not meant as a criticism, by the way… it was an observance. the problem with many works of art, is that the art tends to be directly relatable to the life of the artist.
Mel Gibson can make a (96% biblically accurate) movie about the last hours of Christ. ooo… it’s beautiful, it’s a masterpiece… etc. etc. People were weeping. when he was called anti-semitic… he got angry and wouldn’t shut up about how NOT anti-semitic he was.
then few years later he gets pulled over, drunk, and starts to off on the “fuck’n Jews.” well, suddenly everything clicks, and everyone in the world goes, “oh… NOW the “passion of the Christ” makes sense…”
and they are right.
that’s what is happening here. as you type, as you make snide comments about me and others, as you make derogatory assumptions and condescending quips about those that think differently than you… you are dangerously close to falling into the same fate.
Charley
Be complacent and nothing will change. Their must be the opposite point of view expressed in all things. Otherwise, The Mel Gibson’s, Bin Laden’s, Hitler’s will win. I am a good person and want to see civilization continue in an upward spiral, and not leave the next generation of gay people in an oppressed state that I grew up in. It wasn’t easy to reach 73, as suicide was on my mind most of my youth. I survived and get angry at your complacency.
Charley
Neither one of us has seen the film as is the topic of this thread. It may mediate both our views. Let’s stop the bickering and insults.
I am too busy now. It is 8:00 am PT and I have to take care of business.
Charley
Too many mosques. Too many churches. Too many synagogues. Tax ’em all!
Dawster
i don’t believe i was name calling.
however, i do think that in america, religion SHOULD be taxed. if they don’t pay taxes, they cannot call the fire department, the police, or the EMS if an emergency arises (maybe god will help).
you again ASSUME that i am complacent (which my endless writing on this thread proves otherwise) and that i support religion. you are incorrect on both counts.
currently, young gays don’t live in the world you grew up, so any further worry on your part about that subject would be futile. times have changed. what we are trying to do now is raise the gay community to the same level as our straight neighbors.
your idea of generalized hate and anger takes us back 20 years… and i find that dangerous to my generation and those that come after it…
hence, my continual relies. I accept your worry against Islam and your passion. do you accept the reason why i (and others) find that counterproductive and dangerous?
Dawster
relies = replies
Charley
Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is agreeing with you. Every one is free in Iran and women and liberated. You and “your group” whoever they are, must be very proud to have known prematurely. Gays are free to travel from one Muslim country to another have sex in public. Even Mecca in front of the Ka’ba.
Dawster
was i talking about Iran in this post? was gay travel part of the conversation?
Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, why would Iran care about public sex in a country on the other side of the Persian Gulf?
or is it that you see all the “brown” countries as one… you can’t tell them apart and they all blend together?
BillieXX
Dawster,
Why are you even trying brother? Unless you tell Charley he is the best thing since lube, he’s going to accuse you of being the love slave of bin-Laden.
Heather_L_James
Holy Moses, what a thread! It has become so tangential it has actually come back to the original point, at least in my mind.
Making a film documenting the lives of gay and lesbian persons living in the muslim world shoots down the notion that every muslim is a zealous lunatic hellbent on enforcing Sharia.
Charley, you stated that art should exist to make a social statement, isn’t that exactly what Sharma is trying to accomplish here? I also couldn’t agree with you less with regards to that statement. Art exists to express the heart and mind of the artist, some people are motivated towards social change, some are not.
My two favorite authors (to me writing is an art) are Hemingway and Vonnegut, both very different writers. With the exception of “For Whom the Bell Tolls” it would be very hard to argue that any of Hemingway’s work made a significant social statement, however nearly everything Vonnegut wrote contained a critique on the social landscape of the time. Does that make Heminway less of a writer?
The final point is that religion isn’t to blame for the awful things in the world, greed and powerlust take the credit for all those.
hisurfer
Didn’t what’s-his-face say goodbye already? I feel for him. Rushdie got a fatwa of his own. All he got was us laughing at him. It must hurt.
So now, does anyone know much about the movie? It’s not on netflix, and our local gay film festival leans towards awful romantic comedies. I’d like to see it, but don’t know how, when, or where.
Dawster
oh… i don’t know BillieXX.
part of it is because i don’t think anyone has really stood up to him before – challenged his core beliefs (and now we know what they are). i think his arrogance seems to give him this feeling that he has a right to step on people (in other countries and on fellow gays). and i can’t allow him to do that – i don’t care who he is.
maybe it’s because i’m not complacent or weak, and it bothers me that people who call themselves “activists” are actually doing more harm than good. Charlie is filled with ideas, but no facts.
so i will sit here and regurgitate provable facts until everyone realizes just how wrong, dangerous, and far off course he really is.
how could i not do that? thr future of the gay community is at issue here.
(does that even make sense?)
fallon community health plan
U’ve got good pics, the site could use a tiny bit of work (no offense) its still awesome