It’s not easy being feminine in a #Masc4Masc world, and some guys on the femme end of the gender-presentation spectrum admit they butch it up just to make themselves attractive.
Take the responses to one Redditor’s recent question on the r/askgaybros subreddit: “Are you guilty of purposefully toning down your effeminacy because you fear guys won’t be into you for it?”
Related: Why writing “no fems” is actually killing your dating game
The original poster deleted the body of his post, but fellow Reddit users nevertheless left comments covering a wide gamut of stances.
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“Yeah, it’s just easier,” one commenter rues. “I don’t mind, though, if it’s just for a hookup since that doesn’t affect my day to day life. I’m more worried when I want to be in a longer-term relationship how I’ll find someone when so many guys are femmephobic.”
Another guy, though, has no time for the femmephobia. “If someone isn’t attracted to me the way I am, then it’s best for both of us to just move on,” he writes.
And one commenter says, “Actually, quite the opposite,” implying he gets more action because of his effeminacy.
Related: An alarming number of gay men say they’re totally turned off by feminine guys
One commenter says he would like to take care of a guy “in a feminine way,” and another admits he enjoys wearing lace and stockings in bed. “Some guys aren’t into it, but I don’t feel guilty,” the latter writes.
Meanwhile, one of the blunter commenters suggested that guys with #Masc4Masc-esque biases should take a hard look in the mirror, writing, “If you can’t find any attractive qualities in ANY non-masc men, there’s probably underlying reasons why you’re single.”
JH0607
If I was into fem, I would just be straight and date women.
cynicalsteve
And there you have it folks… ??
LilMesican
There is a saying in Spanish “No somos monedita de oro para gustarle a todos”. Translates to: “We’re not gold coins for everyone to like us.”
When i was single and dating, I realized that I didn’t fit everyone’s likes. Some don’t like; short, sarcastic, chatty. Others don’t like; Latino, Mexicans, Brown Skin.
So I didn’t date them, I went after guys that appreciated a loud mouthed, sarcastic, taco lover!
Call it racist, bigoted, or personal taste. In the end, the issue is not totally the other person, the issue would be with me.
Why do I have a need to be liked, wanted or date everyone? What is the root of that issue? What’s in that baggage?
I have a preference myself; tall, chubby and funny. I prefer street smarts over book. Watching TV over the Bar. Boring guys need not contact.
Donston
I really don’t know much about this masc4masc life. If it weren’t for the internet I’d be completely ignorant on this. Almost every same-sex couple I know has a more feminine and a more masculine counterpart to whatever degree. Personally, I have attractions that are all over the place and I can be intrigued or turned on by so many different types of dudes. Masculinity or femininity has never mattered to me. And there are plenty of gay-identifying men and guys who want to unabashedly date dudes who are into more fem dudes. I will say that I don’t think femininity works on all guys. And I need you to be an obvious guy. Although I’m kinda into chicks and trans women, I’d never want to date a guy who’s so female-like in looks, behavior and wardrobe (not effeminate but “female-like”, which is a different thing) that I feel as if I’m dating female. And I’d never want to be with anyone who’s putting on an extreme mask. Unrelenting and aggressive femininity and over-the-top masculinity and “bro-ness” and “thugish-ness”- they can all be defensive and narcissistic masks. I probably have a bit more sexual passion towards more effeminate guys and have more of a romantic connection and general relationship contentment towards more “masculine” guys, which is why I married a guy who can give it all to me.
What exactly is fem and what is masc remains a constant debate. And what is too fem? These things seems to change from individual to individual and be more about personal preference and perception. Because there’s a lot of guys who see themselves as “masculine” who are pretty obviously “queer”. And there are many guys who say they’re into masculinity but date men who aren’t in the least bit “passing”.
We shouldn’t be shaming people for not wanting to be with a certain type of person. But we shouldn’t be looking to shame and ostracize purely based on romantic/sexual preferences or where you fit on the fem to masc spectrum.
JK 1984
I don’t always agree with what you post but you got some good points up in there.
I think everyone, regardless of their gender, sexuality, age, etc will have some behaviours, actions that are interpreted as Masculine or Feminine. Some will have a lot more one way or the other, but there is generally at least a bit of both. This is also culture, region, even individual specific as what is seen as masculine by some is seen as feminine by others.
For example, both me and my husband (as of three weeks ago) fall somewhere on a masc/femme “spectrum”. I change the oil on the cars, mow the lawns, but also do the laundry and am more open with my emotions.
He does lots of handy man stuff around the home but also loves cooking and is artistic.
At the end of the day, being authentic to who you are, whether that means being an extremely effeminate, make up wearing, vogueing queen, a big strong power lifting dude bro or anywhere in between is the most important thing. And if people don’t like you for who you are, then they aren’t worth your time.
Donston
I certainly have some instincts that could be interpreted a “fem” as do most men, though I’ve been accused of being “too masculine” because I “pass”. It’s more about not altering who you are to fit into any particular culture and about being comfortable with yourself and honest with yourself. And, at least when it comes to seeking a long-term and legit relationship, it’s about the type of person you can have a steady and comfortable romantic/sexual/emotional bond and commitment with. No one can really dictate who that type of person is for an individual or how someone should generally behave.
miserylovedme24
I think it’s completely ridiculous that people are shamed for preferring masculine men, yet you wouldn’t hear a single negative word if someone says they prefer feminine men. Just let people like what they like and stop bitching already. I’m sure there are lots of guys that are just fine with fem men and lots that aren’t. It’s not up to anyone else to use PC culture to force guys to get with ones that they don’t want to.
Donston
I think one of the issues is that it appears that many (though of course not all) of these masc4masc guys resent effeminate men. It’s not just merely about not wanting to date them. I’ve definitely overheard some things throughout the years. Telling more effeminate guys to “be a man”, blaming effeminate guys for all the gay stereotypes and bullying. And it doesn’t take long on the internet to see hatred towards effeminate guys and drag queens or to see gay dudes praising more masculine guys simply for not being typical “sissies”.
There’s a constant culture war within “queerdom”. There’s so much obsession with where you fit in or out, obsession with identity, obsession with trying to feel connected to certain types of people or certain “movements” and disconnect from others. Simply unabashedly liking guys and wanting to be with a guy isn’t enough to break down many of the barriers and bring people together.
busn691
Good lord. This is not a thing. People should just be themselves and realize that chasing people that don’t want you is toxic. There are plenty who will want you as you are.
KevInSD
90% of this site is dedicated to promoting effeminacy and promiscuity — the twin pillars of Queerty. So it’s no surprise that here is a post about effeminate gay men “pretending” to be masculine in order to hook up. The underlying message is that sexual intercourse with complete strangers is a normal activity and effeminacy is a natural state of being for gay men. Both are false.
This site does not have the interests of LGB people at heart. It is toxic.
Kangol
Point taken, but then why do you keep coming on here if you dislike Queerty so much? I’m not asking that to be snarky, but rather being serious. If you dislike what you see Queerty representing, why keep showing up to post? You clearly have issues with the sexual freedom of other people, you have issues around gender, and so on, and this site is triggering them (I’m not going to call you a “snowflake”), so why keep checking it out and posting here?
KevInSD
Why come here? Because this site is, sadly, visited by LGB people and has an influence in establishing what is normal and acceptable. It spreads misinformation and toxic values to LGB people, and in particular LGB youth, some of whom are influenced by it and thus harmed. Because I care about my fellow LGBs, I will come here and speak when appropriate. People can agree or disagree, but at least we will have a conversation, as opposed to mindless one-sided dissemination of “Graham Gremore’s” dubious values.
Brian
Except… You don’t come here and create a conversation, you come here and scold everybody like an uptight, virgin schoolmarm straight out of Little House on the Prairie. If you actually want to generate discussion you really need a different approach. But I have a feeling you don’t actually want that, you just want to flaunt your moral superiority.
frankcar1965
And yet you feel the need to read and comment, STFU and you are probably a big nelly thing too.
rfmcdonald
One of the great things I like about being queer–gay, bi, whatever you want to call me–is that our sexuality is something that we have to think about in a way that straight people don’t often get to do. Among other things, this gives us a chance to interrogate our own biases: Are we really not attracted to something or someone, or do we have other things going on?
Fenix443
So let me get this clear… Effeminate gay men are pissed because the masculine men they are attracted to are attracted to other masculine men, and the effeminate men are hurt that they attempt to act masculine to attract masculine men and still get rejected…. Seems normal.
I have no remorse for effeminate men. Drag queens and effeminism are not the symbols of gay men, regardless of what many believe. And many effeminate men ruin gay clubs by trying to run a hierarchy, and the masculine gays are at the bottom of the pyramid, yet are also their targets. It’s nothing but hypocrisy.
surreal33
If the core of your being is a Fembot then own it. Being a Fembot isn’t problematic until said Fembot expects all gay men embrace your femininity. Many gay men are attracted to and prefer feminine men however, many gay men DO NOT want any part of feminine men.
radiooutmike
@Fenix443: You should feel sympathy for effeminate men. They can’t hide. More ‘masculine’ gay men, do have a luxury of not being automatically mistaken for being gay by your very existence.
I’ve never felt particularly masculine (read: macho) personally. I think I get emotional too easily and I tend to let my wrists fly when I am talking. But the men and women who I’ve been with have described me as “all man”. I get flummoxed when I hear this, because I know what it means- but i don’t feel like I am acting hyper-masculine. So, yes, there are a group gay men who can hide in plain sight as long they don’t outwardly signal their orientation/sexuality.
Society tells us what is masculine and what is feminine. So, if you happen to conform and as long as your gender identity is in sync– you’re fine. But for people who don’t, it’s difficult.