We’re well aware of the stereotype. Gay men are a sex-obsessed, youth-obsessed group who live in constant paralyzing fear of growing old. We’re also aware that this stereotype doesn’t apply to all, or even most, gay men. Yet it persists. Why? Because, like all stereotypes, there is at least an inkling of truth to it.
Related: An Open Letter To Ageist Gay Men
Now, silver fox/psychotherapist Matthew Dempsey says he has the answer as to why so many gay men remain so fixated on staying youthful. He says that it all boils down to money and consumerism and the way companies market their products to younger people who are generally more likely to throw their cash away on frivolous things.
“At a baseline, what we’re talking about it money and consumerism,” Dempsey diagnoses. “Money talks. … When you’re younger, you’re more valuable.”
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Related: If You’re Over 40 You Should Stay Out Of Gay Bars, Says Ageist Blogger
This mentality then seeps into people’s psyches, making them believe what large corporations believe: that younger people are “worth” more, and so we do anything and everything we can to stay “worthy.”
“[We] want to reflect what we believe is most valuable because it’s just human nature,” Dempsey says. “We want to fit in. We want to belong. We want to know that we connect with others and that other people will see us valuable too.”
Check out Dempsey’s analysis below. Do you agree or disagree? Share your two cents in the comments section below…
trell
The trouble with stereotyping is that while there’s an inkling of truth about it, the rest of it doesn’t really apply.
Ok, so there is an inkling (twinkling?) of guys obsessed with staying young, but in my experience, just as many guys are attracted to the more mature, self-confident men out there. Case in point, the very spokesperson on the video, Matthew Dempsey. He’s bearded, greying, but good looking and comes across pretty well.
There’s a difference between trying to look good, and trying to look young.
jdboston617
Cool article, but this more explains why the media and companies are obsessed with the youth market; and not the human instinct – which has been the case since the dawn of man – is obsessed with youth. 😉 Yes, there is a connection, cause and affect, but there are many, many reasons why.
Heywood Jablowme
This theorist (Matthew Dempsey) has a fundamental misunderstanding of how consumerism and advertising work. The only reason advertisers consider young people “worth” more is that young people are much more easily swayed by advertising, so they have yet to set lifelong buying habits. That is the ONLY reason. Older people are set in their habits and are not as easily influenced by advertising.
Young people don’t have much money (especially in 2016!) so they’re not “worth” more to corporations in any literal short-term sense. They’re worth more because of the potential, long-term advertising potential they represent.
Anyway, gay men tend to be obsessed with young guys because they’re cute. Don’t overthink it. 🙂
batesnight
It’s not just gays that obsess over youth, it’s most people on the planet and especially in Western civilization that are obsessed with it. Can’t necessarily stereotype that it’s just gays.
geoker
Many men seem to be attracted to young partners for whatever reason. This makes straight women and gay men obsess over youth in order to maintain or attract a man. Even though I am married (to a younger man) I am trying my best to remain young inside and out as long as possible.
ronpat
Superficial, ahistorical argument—embarrassing, really. If the ancient Greeks, let’s say, were judged by this standard or Oscar Wilde or Elton John the argument collapses before it gets built.
whirlaround
@ronpat: You’re so right.
AxelDC
Why are heterosexual men like Donald Trump and Newt Gingrinch constantly trading in their wives for younger models?
dwes09
He is a psychotherapist (a decidedly “soft” science if a science at all), not a statistician. Young men are prettier than older guys and have greater sexual urge. However my experience as an older gay man has been that I am getting hit on by a lot more men in their 20’s and 30’s now (at 65) than i was 15 years ago. Like any community/social group, we are complex and there is little room for simplistic and myth based “theory”.
Mr. Jablowme (HA!) has a very good take on the real reason…probably much closer to the truth.
AxelDC
@geoker: Men want younger wives because older women are infertile. Even if they don’t consciously want children, the male sex drive prefers fertile women. A woman of a certain age can no longer produce children, so becomes less attractive.
Gay men have similar sex drives to straight men, so the desire for youth is still there.
Josh447
I see very few young man old guy relationships. It’s a shallow and very small piece of the stereotyping, if it’s really a stereotype at all. Barely worth mentioning. You’re worth more to the roaming eye if you are sexy-attractive take care of yourself and are confident, no matter the age.
AxelDC
If he thinks that age makes you better, why isn’t he dating an 80 year old?
Doughosier
My boyfriend is 25 years younger than me and I started talking to him because I thought he was cute. He likes older guys, however, so he talked back. 4 years later, we’re closer than ever.
Captain Obvious
There are plenty of guys who love daddy types and those same guys get tossed aside by those daddy types when they age out of twinkdom.
Seems to be the only people stuck on the age thing are a certain group in a certain age bracket and not a symptom of the entire community.
DistingueTraces
Are straight men less consumerist under this theory?
lovesmiles
Since a lot guys didn’t come out until they were older could they be “chasing” what they missed? I know I am lol
TylerM
Having kids made me age. Rapidly. But, I’m too busy parenting & living my life to worry about it.
markgtx11
I used to feel bad for older guys until I noticed that a majority of them only zeroed in on younger guys–or blatantly rejected guys their own age or older–just like the young guys they complain about.
Hypocrisy is unattractive at any age.
simulations
It’s more than that. Older straight, white men are patriarchs. They lead families, businesses, countries… Their currency changes as they age. Most gay men will never be able to experience that sort of shift in personal worth, so we cling on to that time in life when we felt the most valuable.
ingyaom
To quote Schopenhauer: “Youth without beauty still has its charm, but beauty without youth has none.”
misterhollywood
I hate to disagree with Mr. Dempsey but the reasons behind many gay men are “obsessed” with youth are not related to “money” or “value”. As a tribe, many gay men want to appear younger for the obvious reason – attractiveness. That may seem shallow (sorry) but it is true.
Money has absolutely zero to do with it. “Value” has nothing to do with it.
It’s a stretch here to say gay men are “obsessed” with youth. Are many obsessed with looking “youthful” – yes. Do many want to appear “hot” – you bet.
He’s touched on an important topic but he’s reached some very flawed conclusions.
misterhollywood
@abnerbha:
Complete non-sense. You are generalizing here to a population and smearing gay people at the same time.
michael
@misterhollywood: “As a tribe, many gay men want to appear younger for the obvious reason – attractiveness.”
Yep, you nailed it. In my experience, gay men are attracted to other attractive men (duh.) While each person’s definition of attractive is somewhat subjective, it is generally understood that an interesting face and trim, toned body is desirable (double duh.)
Go to the gym, keep your body relatively tight, be well groomed, and stick to men + or – 10 years of your age and you will never lack for dates.
I am 61, normal/average face, with a slender, decently-toned body. A clean diet, regular gym 3 days a week and 8r hrs sleep is all the “work” it takes. I do not look “young” – I look “good for my age.” I am in an open 9 yr relationship with a sweet dude similar in looks to myself. I enjoy hooking-up with guys of all ages (21-68) once a week via one of the cruise apps. Usually have my choice of several potentials every Saturday nite. It’s fun.
markgtx11
In the gay world youth and beauty IS the currency–so essentially if you are older and/or not considered physically attractive by the mainstream you are essentially flat broke.
Gay men obsess because they feel their inherent value in gay culture is tied to remaining sexually attractive. To no longer be young and attractive is to be invisible/disposable. Ask any man who is not considered young or attractive what it’s like to go to a gay bar and have people look right through you–or scoff at your attempts to say hello or make small talk.
I’ve seen this subject brought up on gay blogs and whenever a man talks about this reality and the utter despair and loneliness he feels for being judged for not young or attractive enough he is shut down and dismissed as jealous, a hater–or that somehow the problem is merely an attitude or perception issue on his part.
I really like Matt Dempsey’s videos and find him to be very genuine. That being said, I have to admit it’s a bit hard to have this subject addressed by someone who looks like they fell out of a catalog. I think most good looking people are largely unaware of their societal privilege, and so having the subject discussed in such a detached and nonchalant way by someone who has profoundly benefited from the reality being discussed feels very patronizing.
michael
@markgtx11: I appreciate your intelligent thinking and comments. But, being young and being attractive/desirable are not always the same thing. Yes, youth has an inherent beauty that cannot be denied – which is especially obvious to older men. However, one can be attractive/desirable at any age if you put in the effort to stay in somewhat shape and have interests in things that you can talk about. I’m sure that where you live makes a difference (I live in a city with lots of gay men.) Nonetheless, there are many thousands of gay men with just as many interests. So, ok, the prettiest guys in the gym/bar may not be interested in you. So what? You don’t need them, you need the more average (but still attractive) guy that also finds you attractive and you can have an engaging conversation with. All you need is one (or maybe a few.) Intelligent, experienced older men don’t just look at physical beauty, but look at the entire package. There are all kinds of “sub-genres” of beauty that don’t rely strictly on “bar looks.” Be proactive and go out and find one of those dudes. (Hint: You won’t find him in a twink bar.)
Kim K Kute Kuchie
I disagree with his covered torso. too distracting
carmen13
This video is ridiculous. Mr. Dempsey, your video is about the “issue” with gay men and aging and saying gay men are obsessed with staying young. While this is true for SOME gay men, it isn’t true of all gay men. Don’t you feel like you are perpetuating the stereotype by saying that basically all gay men in general are obsessed with this? Do you think it is right to generalize in this manner and put all gay men into the same box? I personally find that offensive.
Also, laughing while you talk about how women have lived in a sexist society is offensive. Do you think that is funny? Having a man tell women how hard it is for them because they are made to feel like less than men is patronizing. Also I don’t think women have a problem knowing their worth despite as you say because society tell us they are less than. I know my worth thank you. I don’t consider myself to be less than but thanks for your concern.
Here is what you need to do Mr. Dempsey. You need to stop generalizing and stop trying to speak for entire groups of people when you don’t know what you are talking about. Your videos do more harm than good and are laughable to be frank. I know you like to stare at yourself and think you are clearly God’s gift to this planet but maybe spend a little less time doing your hair and a little more time educating yourself on the topics you are discussing. Maybe then you would know that youth culture wasn’t relevant in the 19th century as you stated. It wasn’t until the end of WWll that the term teenager and the idea of a youth market began to develop. Perhaps fact check next time.
ddevine
Truth is…as we age we are in “decline.” And in the gay world–that appears to be an absolute horror, if not a mortal sin. And it always has been. Our testosterone levels are not the same, and no matter WHAT we do to our faces or bodies, we are still our age internally and signs will show. It is an uphill battle after about 38 (MUCH later for straight men), no matter what Marianna Williamson CD you listen to endlessly. Gay men and straight women become ‘invisible’ as this happens and no one likes to have once turned every head in the room, then little by little, notice that is no longer the case. Most will eventually look right THROUGH you, not at you. Indeed there are those who like older men (many!), but that older man had better have some money or a very extraordinary penis. This is an ugly fact. A lower income gay male over 40 can forget it. His time in the sun is over. With today’s “social media sex hookups” times are worse than ever– for all of us. Lies are worse. Agenda is worse. An older gay man must be on high alert at all times, with this “generous older men” request becoming ever present. “Corporation” and “market” have nothing to do with any of this. On a lighter note, if one has been coupled for a long time and in a small town– things will be fine. In L.A., New York…no. Not a chance. The temptation, the sheer NUMBER (volume)of alleged ” better” and younger guys are everywhere. THIS…is why we fear age. Invisibility.
Kim K Kute Kuchie
to be fair, most gays are very very femme with low testosterone & visibly low secondary male characters to begin with. Aging attacks the femmes on many fronts:
BIOLOGY : Once they aged, they have even lower “male-ness” i.e. saggy boobs, even more femme, hence a lot less attractive than a normal masc man, who weren’t born with low T to begin with
BEHAVIORAL : a life time of opening their mouths with purses coming out , now they’re even more femme but in an old woman sort of way.
Sexually, most are bottom & their… just got lose over time due to lost of collagen & elastin production.
In short, FEMME gays are undesirable exponentially as they age. While not much can be done about biology, they might wanna be acting manly, or lifting weight to maintain muscle mass & increase /maintain Testosterone.
After all, you’re a man.
The FEMME GAYS give enough of a bad name for gays.
sourwolf
I’ve seen his vids. Not very convincing at all, with no statistics or studies as back up.
jag4313
I just want to look 25 FOREVER!
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
Why are women youth obsessed?
Why do 60 year old straight men date and/or marry 20-30 women?
Why do these matters only pertain to gay men?
@Kim K Kute Kuchie: Queerty…when are you going to install any ignore button? Do we have to read this ignorant, homophobic sh-t?
Billy Budd
I like younger guys. I am 43 and my boyfriend is 23. He makes me feel young. I like that and I think we never grow too old inside. Please read the classical book DEATH IN VENICE by Thomas Mann. It explains everything. The movie is nice too. Also, please read about the love between Eromenos and Erastes in Classical Ancient Greece. Please notice that I am not a pedo and I think being pedo is totally wrong.
lizardking73
@ddevine: very good point. i would just like to add how sad it is that in this whole discussion love — meaning the completely non-idealized version of it, where a relationship between two people goes beyond physical attractiveness or utilitarianism — does not seem to be a factor. as a 43-year old black man WITHOUT an idris-like physique, most of the attention i get from local guys comes from their curiosity about the bbc folklore (there are not too many blacks in this area). once they find out i’m not exactly porn material, they immediately move on to the nearest twink. and i’m not playing the victim here — i find men my age hard to deal with, especially when they right off the bat judge you according to every other terrible partner/experience they’ve had. i usually go for guys at least a few months younger than me, because it helps me feel more in control. that’s a flaw, i guess, and i don’t always not how to deal with that upper hand i seem to value so much. i like alphas, i’m not (naturally) one myself. and maybe that’s another element that could help shed some light on the discussion: younger men tend to cede control more often and validate your experience, making you more of a man, perhaps.
lizardking73
*don’t always know how to
He BGB
it all comes down to sex. SEX. To some people gay and straight it’s not attractive to be old, fat, squinty eyes, buck teeth, have a deformity, anything that doesn’t make one look like what the media tells us is attractive and SEXY. Remember when they put a drawing of Bette Midler on the covers of her first 2 albums instead of a photograph? Remember when we heard Barry White then saw his photo for the first time?
He BGB
I’m glad daddies has become a positive category in the gay world (it has, hasn’t it?) although I’m not sure it means mature? Bear? Silver hair? Older? Is 30 a daddy? 40? 50? Older than whom? Has to have children? But they have a large group of admirers.
Heywood Jablowme
@markgtx11: “Ask any man who is not considered young or attractive what it’s like to go to a gay bar and have people look right through you–or scoff at your attempts to say hello or make small talk.”
Uhhh… do you see the irony there? Yes, there are LOTS of guys like that. So they should be dating each other, not chasing after young/conventionally attractive guys.
What do you see as the “solution” to this non-problem – force (or shame) young guys into dating/having sex with old &/or ugly guys? Isn’t that a little impractical?
There are plenty of gay bars that draw an older crowd.
FRE0
There are things we could do to force changes.
Models are almost invariably young. Those of us who have attained gariatrification could contact clothing manufacturers and let them know that we will not by products modeled only by young models.
BillSam
@batesnight: You are absolutely right! Nobody likes growing old, and ageism is in every community. I get so sick of people saying it’s just gay men. And with the bear community as large as it is — catering to large, older, hairy guys who are unlike the usual stereotype and neither slender or pretty — we have to get past all these generalizations.
abnerbha
@misterhollywood: Most men and most teenage boys do not have interest in teenage girls who have not finished puberty. If you see who most men have interest in when it comes to women. Most men have interest in women who are in their 20s, 30s to early 40s with women in 20s being most popular, 30s popular and early to mid 40s a woman last pretty years. A woman prime years when it comes to sexual beauty for most men is when she is in her 20s and 30s with most beautiful years being when a woman is 18 to 35 years old.
But when you look at who gays have interest in-gays interest sexually are teenage boys to men in early 20s who still have acne. Once a man hairline recedes (while it varies this often is noticeable when a man is in early to late 20s), most gays find him too old because the youth is gone. And just because a gay is in a long term relationship such as 20 years, that usually is not their only relationship. They often bring teenage boys to their home. Of course they won’t usually admit this to avoid arrest going to jail and why they are secretive.
Truth is that gay/lesbian groups think it’s Okay for gays to molest teenage boys. From the times I have known gays, gays like teenagers (usually 18 or 19 -barely legal) to men in early 20s. It’s truth that gays like men who are boyish looking-those who still have a full head of hair and acne-there are many gays who have interest in 16 year old teenagers-such as Milk and Liberace. Once the acne clears, a man’s hairline recedes, full grown beard and so on such as in mid 20s, gays begin to lose interest because he looks too old.
Damien
In terms of consumerism the Expose song lyrics to ‘what you don’t know'(can catch on YouTubes) by group is telling. Between old and young in relationships, I feel the young(in age or feeling one’s oats)that are basking in the sun need not to
get in too deep(ala’ take a step back every once in a while)while the older at the helm of being the responsible adult here; who also may be the younger one as a switch needs never to punk-out. This can be achieved in narrowing down and being specific over what they want and can pull off regarding expectations of the partnering. Then they can find appropriate fulfillment by arising new horizons for the love life. It’s a task maturity demands, not impossible to orient to.
You never know what you never know.
It always seems one partner does; while the other puts up with.
Heywood Jablowme
@abnerbha: Abner, go home to Mrs. Kravitz. She’s freaking out about Samantha and Darren again.
Daniel-Reader
I think it is called projection – placing his fears onto everyone else. He needs better friends to hang out with if this is his experience. Very shallow and vapid. Youtubers desparate for attention get weird these days. Advertising uses young people because many older people still view themselves (their inner selves especially) as still being youthful, so unless your product is age-specific (e.g. walkers, life insurance) then there is no value to advertisers to use older models/actors to push general products.
Bauhaus
@He BGB:
Yes, sir! Seasoned, grizzled, mature guys catch my eye.