Graham Norton would rather not be in the headlines, but here we are…
Recently, the TV host/RuPaul’s Drag Race UK judge/Eurovision commentator extraordinaire was a featured guest at England’s Cheltenham Literature Festival, where he sat down for a live interview with journalist Mariella Frostrup.
The conversation touched on a wide range of topics, but it’s Norton’s comments on cancel culture—and why he’d rather not be centralized in that conversation—that have ironically gotten the internet’s attention.
In a clip shared by Times Radio, the host shares his confusion over certain public figures decrying cancel culture: “In what world are you canceled? I’m reading your article in the newspaper,” he says with a laugh. “The word is the wrong word. The word should be accountability.”
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Related: Graham Norton ties the knot to mystery man in lavish ceremony
It’s at this point that Norton brings up John Cleese, who’s made quite a few headlines himself recently, for all the wrong reasons. (As our colleagues at INTO put it, the Monty Python comedian has “gone to the dark side.”)
“It must be very hard to be a man of a certain age,” says Norton in reference to Cleese, “who’s been able to say whatever he’d like for years. And now, suddenly, there’s some accountability. It’s free speech, but not consequence free.”
"In what world are you cancelled? I think the word is the wrong word. I think the word should be accountability."
Graham Norton criticises John Cleese and tells #TimesRadio that cancel culture isn't real.@mariellaf1 pic.twitter.com/mErngPl2kJ
— Times Radio (@TimesRadio) October 12, 2022
When Frostup then brings up censorship and J.K. Rowling—who Norton recently interviewed on his radio show—the host gets honest about the media cycle around these exact kinds of conversations.
“What I feel weird about this is, when I’m ask about it, then I become part of the discussion,” he tells the journalist. “And all I’m painfully aware of, is that my voice adds nothing to that discussion, and I’m sort of embarrassed that I’m somehow drawn into it.”
We hope Graham accepts our apologies for drawing him into it yet again. But he makes some good points!
Related: JK Rowling’s new book is about a transphobic author who gets canceled and Twitter’s not having it
He continues: “If people want to shine a light on those issues—and I hope people do—then talk to trans people, talk to the parents of trans kids, talk to doctors, talk to psychiatrists, talk to someone who can illuminate this in some way.”
“I’m very aware that, as ‘bloke off the telly,’ your voice can be artificially amplified. And, once in a blue moon, that can be good. But, most of the time, that’s just a distraction,” he astutely observes “You can put my name in a headline—you know, ‘Graham Norton slams,’ ‘Graham Norton defends,’ Graham Norton weighs in on’—and actually Graham Norton shouldn’t be in your headline.”
Graham, again, we know what our headline above looks like, but just know we’re using it to draw attention to your thoughtful critique!
“If you want to talk about something, talk about the thing. You don’t need to attach a Kardashian, or a whatever to a serious subject—the subject should be enough in itself,” he declares.
“Please, can we have some experts! Can we rustle up some f*cking experts and talk to them rather than a man in a shiny pink suit”—or Cleese, or Rowling, for that matter. Amen, Norton!
The Times Radio clip has garnered a lot of attention on Twitter, where Norton’s name has been trending a full 24 hours after the original post. Now, sure, being a trending top probably runs counter to the points he was trying to make, but folks are taking notice, and sharing his important message:
Graham Norton is a national treasure (for UK) & this clip affirms my appreciation for his delightful show. Here he argues that cancel culture isn’t real & that Transphobic ppl finally being held accountable for the things they used to be able to say is perfectly appropriate https://t.co/IuEeGfFCjF
— Erin Overbey (@erinoverbey) October 13, 2022
Pretty good response from Graham Norton on why cis people who aren't experts should shut up
The host's main point here is total garbage though. Transphobic cis people, including billionaire women, are finally facing some accountability for stuff they used to be able to say https://t.co/pKKeSDAEEc
— Katy Montgomerie ? (@KatyMontgomerie) October 13, 2022
When baited on JK Rowling, Graham Norton said he is sick of clickbait discussion & how he wishes we talk about the issue not the nonsense X is saying about that issue. "Talk to Trans people, talk to the parents of Trans kids…please rustle up some experts and talk to them". https://t.co/lCmV9ewFFB
— TransSafetyNow (@DadTrans) October 12, 2022
You can watch Norton’s full chat with Mariella Frostrup at the Cheltenham Literature Festival below:
inbama
Cancel Culture isn’t real?
University of Maine almost fired a professor for correctly stating there are only two human sexes, and the idiot students complained they felt “unsafe.”
Cam
I LOVE the fact that the same old right wing troll account is SO triggered by trans people it can’t help but turn every post into a rant about them.
We get it precious, just like so many anti-gay preachers turned out to be hiring rent boys, you likely have some major gender issues and hate trans people because they’re brave enough to do what you aren’t.
DBMC
ALMOST fired?
In other words NOT FIRED.
gothvixen
That isn’t even true, as anyone with any intelligence knows or is able to discover. There are at least 6. Scientific fact is something you people consider fictional, and the professor is an idiot so probably should have been fired.
The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the foetus are:
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
XX – Most common form of female
XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
XY – Most common form of male
XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
inbama
Cam,
You are the sorriest person.
You are mentally incapable of discussing issues. Your only purpose here is to call names. You think I’m a troll because I express opinions that dissent from Generation Z? Fine. Everybody has heard your sickening garbage a thousand times – including the wild accusation that anyone who is actually a “classical liberal” and supports open and free debate, neuroscience, psychology, evolutionary biology, nonideological history and American Democracy are all ONE person masquerading as numerous screennames.
You are a sick person, Cam. You contribute absolutely NOTHING to the mental life of this blog. Get help.
barryaksarben
Cam you are right these right wingers are so childish in their fear of gay or trans or anything to do with sex period. Prudes from another century. This country has never been comfortable with sex and it is tiresome. Too bad that there ARE gay people and transpeople but they do exist and thinking you can somehow stop them from existing by passing laws is insane. As old as it its “Get used to us” already for chrissakes. We have always been here and we will always be here and I fully support our trans brothers and sister PERIOD
PhillyProud
@gothvixen, you just taught me something new. I’m a programmer and work with data. We consider sex to m/f and gender to have multiple choices. More recently, applications I’ve worked on only ask about gender as to be more inclusive and respectful. I didn’t really know about more than two sexes. XOXO
inbama
@PhillyProud
You didn’t know about it because it’s B.S. That is why the professor did not get fired – she was RIGHT. The students, believing nonsense, were wrong.
Genders, some of which are being invented by teenagers, are a product of human imagination.
Sexes, the result of nature, are two.
Cam
The entire Cancel Culture right wing argument boils down to the simple fact that now, occasionally, somebody calls them out for saying something racist, bigoted, or sexist.
DannyParks
Surely sexism isn’t isn’t thing anymore if sex isn’t a thing anymore…
Den
“Surely sexism isn’t isn’t thing anymore if sex isn’t a thing anymore…”
^^^^^^
How to say “I’m a disingenuous right wing cynic, and not particularly bright” without saying “I’m a disingenuous right wing cynic, and not particularly bright”
Kangol2
Exactly, though they are silent about how they’re trying to shut down speech and cancel people for teaching the truth about American history domestically or internationally, or allowing teachers to be openly gay and mention this in classrooms. These aren’t the only topics they shut down either!
Ronbo
Cam you use the word “occasionally”, do you understand the word? You personally attack and insult people every single day you come here.
Are you aware that your attacking everyone with a different opinion is your bigoted way to stop discussions? When you call Senator Graham “Miss Lindsey” are you intentionally demeaning, deadnaming and berating him? Gosh, you are just the other extreme in bigotry, sexism and hate. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
You are a mirror example of hypocrisy and what not to do.
Fahd
Cleese has become a crank who is saying that the U.K. “cancel culture” is making him leave the country. The truth is he’s moving to the Carribean Island of Nevis because that way he doesn’t have to pay taxes in the U.K. as he won’t be “resident.” He rants and raves, but it’s really he doesn’t want to pay his UK taxes – but, interestingly to me, no one calls him on that and asks him about it.
As for Norton, he’s very witty and I have enjoyed his talk show, but he allows all the American homophobes to go on his show to try to sanitize their image/relationship with the gay community. (examples, 50-cent and that guy married to Arnold Schwarennegger’s daughter – whoever). “Look I’m on Graham Norton, I can’t be that bad.” I guess this makes Norton a shill or whatever you call it.
I recently found out Stephen Fry is the reader for Rowling’s audiobooks, which surprised me. I wonder if he did them before she lost her way. I’d like to hear what Fry has to say about that.
LumpyPillows
Or maybe he likes the books… You can disagree with one idea a person has without canceling them…which you seem to prefer.
Ronbo
I’m likin Lumpy a little more with each post. I’m tired of extremists trying to control common sense issues.
We are born and our physical properties are primarily male and female – which is well established. As we learn to express our feelings we may borrow and use both gender concepts – eventually centering on what we feel inside. I have no right over you; you have no right over me.
Trans people – please live your life in the light and know that making demans of others is what you find objectionable – so don’t demand pronouns and terms and bully people into submission. Show your dignity and you’ll soon learn you earn it from others.
Straights and gays – support individuals on their paths with the same respect you wish for yourself… even if it seems silly. It may be lifesaving to someone you love.
Fahd
@Lumpy I want to hear what Fry has to say about this, not you. After all, you’re cancelled.
DBMC
All these people who have supposedly been “cancelled” and yet are still working and get a lot of attention is pretty amazing.
But then, a lot of the people who claim to be “cancelled” are also just unemployable. The public doesn’t want to watch them and no one (except, maybe, Adam Sandler) wants to work with them.
LumpyPillows
Graham’s comments are worth reading. There is a bit more nuance than the typical left or right wing verbal arsonist; you know, like we get here.
Cancel culture is a thing. Some people deserve canceling, most don’t. It really has become a mob sport. Who can we take out of context and make look bad today? It’s about getting attention for yourself being self righteous, not really about making this a better world – it’s become down right vicious (see comments to follow). So, instead of focusing on Trump or Alex Jones, who really need to be canceled, they go after liberals like JK Rowling, Matt Damon, Moby, or Ellen DeGeneres… Who ever is on the chopping block today.
Graham’s got the JK Rowling thing correct – we should not be focusing on her, mainly because almost every complaint against her is untrue or a distortion of what she really said. I guarantee none of you have actually read her written pieces on the topic. You just read the character assassination tweets…if you even bother to read that much. No one bothers to ask if the accusation is true…and therein lies my biggest complaint, you’re lazy.
There is a reason republicans are running ads about trans girls and girls sports and democrat candidates are running from the topic. The republicans are right on this and the vast majority of voters agree. So, instead of talking about fundamental respect for trans people and their needs for health care, safety, etc. we will die on a hill demanding the one indefensible point that the republicans want us to defend. Trans women are great, but they aren’t women. None of the XY nonsense you spout changes the real world. Not one bit. Now queue the attacks in lieu of a discussion. Prove my point.
Den
“The republicans are right on this and the vast majority of voters agree. ”
No, they’re not. Most of the Republicans seem to think men are going to dress up as women to look under the doors of rest room stalls or other such crap. Most Republicans simply don’t want to understand and are happier indulging fear and distaste.
Most of the Trans people I have talked to believe that the issue of trans girls and women in girls and women’s sports must be considered on a case by case basis. How far along is a person in transition, what was their athletic history before hand. Are they prepubescent, on puberty blockers, in hormone treatment, post operative, and so on. One woman I know who was involved with athletics for many years before transitioning chooses not to compete anymore. She only coaches, teaches and councils other trans women.
Trans women are obviously not biological women, but they are women. Republicans think they
are freaks and leave it at that, since republicans are pretty effing childish and dogmatic.
LumpyPillows
Yes, there are the republicans that are truly unkind to trans people. They cannot be saved and because they are so wrong does not make you right – well, you’re mostly right, but… The independents and many democrats don’t hate LGBT people, but they are not happy with the way the trans-women-are -women issue is being handled. No, trans women are not women, they are trans women. Full stop. Nothing wrong with being a trans woman, but they are not women. And therein lies the biggest issue you can’t let go of. Repeating it does not change it. And that is what puts us on the defensive. It is a lie forced on people who are yelled at for disagreeing.
I agree that most trans people are very rational on this topic. It is the left of left CIS gender people, with their reinvention of society based on freshman sociology classes, pushing the trans women are women lie. A trans woman knows her physical superiority. Like when Venus and Serena Williams played the 203 ranked man in the world and lost 6-1 and 6-2. Yes, men have an advantage. It isn’t fair, and it also isn’t often safe to have bigger and stronger trans women competing against women. Trans women know it. They don’t repeat this stuff, with a few exceptions. But, the left won’t stop with it. And it is a loser position.
bachy
Don’t think about it too hard
Too, too hard…
Don’t think about it too hard
Too, too hard…
It’s a wormhole, it’s a Mobius strip!
It’s snake eats tail, it’s the infinity sign!
Get a tattoo of the infinity sign
On your lower back –
Just for yourself!
LegionKeign
What you said about J. K. Rowling I wholeheartedly agree with, but you are very wrong about the Trans issue in the U.S. Most people do NOT want these nasty bans and sexually intrusive tests and examinations.
abfab
How does one go from Silly Walks and Faulty Towers….oh that’s it! That hotel drove him crazy. He gets a pass.
abfab
GN is fine but he can’t touch Dame Edna Everage….move over Possums!
Mister P
Lumpy it is the right that is obsessed with making this a divisive issue and pushing the idea of “real women” versus just women. It isn’t facts they care about but politics.
inbama
Trans is real.
Biological sex is real.
If your understanding cannot accommodate both those realities and accept where they intersect and where they conflict, it’s YOU who aren’t caring about facts.