Alliance Defense Fund’s really going out on a limb.
The Arizona-based, right wing group filed a lawsuit earlier this year alleging New York Governor David Paterson overstepped his power when he ordered New York to recognize out-of-state gay marriages.
n addition to citing separation of executive and legislative branches, ADF’s relying on a far less sophisticated legal tactic: “The suit also cites the online edition of the Merriam-Webster dictionary as evidence that the word “marriage” applies only to a bond between a man and a woman.” Ah, yes, the old dictionary defense. Because, like social conservatives, words can’t evolve.
The judicial fun begins tomorrow.
How about we take this to the next level?
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hells kitchen guy
You make a good point. It’d be interesting to find out if a dictionary definition were ever admissable as evidence in a court case.
CitizenGeek
I would have a hard time believing that a definition in a single dictionary will get them very far. Besides, like Queerty pointed out, words have evolved and gained a changed meaning in the past; a fact that totally undermines whatever point these bigots are trying to make.
An Other Greek
If Patterson plays this right, there could be a huge backlash when New Yorkers find out an ARIZONA hate group is trying to tell New York what to do…
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Xylitol
This Arizona hate group is a well-organized and well-funded right-wing religous legal group that basically starts lawsuits around the country to keep LGBT people from gaining equality. They’ve been behind several other lawsuits in New York State, such as against state pension funds granting LGBT equality.
Shaun Tom
The online dictionary also considers same-sex couples to be in a state of marriage.
Jaroslaw
As I repeatedly stated in these forums (fora?) – whether or not you support Same Sex marriage, it is hard to understand why groups like ADF feel this damages society when there is no proof. But we do know that absentee parents who don’t pay their child support, poor schools, wars, the humungous national debt and many other things DO damage society. It would be nice if the media would force ADF and other groups to answer why they don’t do something constructive with their time and money to address real problems.
L
I love Gov. Paterson. This opens up a new angle on gay marriage – recognition of other states’ marriages, the patchwork of law, and the ability of couples to move from state to state. Hmmm… sounds like another issue in our nation’s history. Can the Northeast and Pacific coast just secede from the Union? Oh yeah, Minnesota and Wisconsin – you’re invited too!
Tim
Here’s the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary’s definition of ‘marriage’. Note that it includes the definition of same-sex marriage:
Main Entry:
mar·riage Listen to the pronunciation of marriage
Pronunciation:
\ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date:
14th century
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities3: an intimate or close union
Alan down in Florida
How does an Arizona based organization have standing to sue in a N.Y. court on this issue?
Jaroslaw
They get a NY resident who belongs to their group or who is willing to file the motion. AFA did that where I live.
CitizenGeek
Jaroslaw,
I’m always thinking the same thing: How can they honestly believe this when there’s no proof at all for their claims? They say same sex marriage will undermine marriage, but fail to give examples of this in Massachusetts, Canada, South Africa or Europe. Likewise, the opposition to gay adoption is puzzling because every single organisation that’s studied gay parenting conclude that same sex couples are just as effective at being parents as straight couples are.
It is important, then, to remember that these stunts are merely thinly veiled homophobia. A phobia is an irrational and unjustified fear, and that’s very obviously what these ignorant types have.
REBELComx
soooo is there a reason my comments havne’t show up yet?
REBELComx
Hmmm, Maybe it broke, looks like it’s working now.
So lets look at some other words as originally defined by Webster…
Homosexual – a word invented in the late 1890s to describe same sex acts, eventually it grew to refer to people who participated in them.
Gay – Happy or light hearted. Now a person of homosexual persuasion. Also a derogatory term for something that is out of place or stupid.
Faggot – A bundle of dry twigs and sticks used to keep a fire going. Historians are still unsure how this term became a derogatory term for a gay man.
Conservative – Originally a person who’s political views were that of smaller government with LESS interference in the personal lives of its citizens. In the 50s, with the rise of the Religious Right, it became a word for a religious bigot trying to force dogma into government and interfering MORE into the personal lives of its citizens.
Marriage has been redifined by every religion, every culture, every country, every race throughout history. Pedastric couples in Rome, Greece, China, and Japan were considered to be married. Roman emperors and senators married adult men as well. Webster’s Dictionary was first printed in 1806, only 200 years ago. This is only a fraction of the time that the English Language has existed, and is FAR less than the time that marriage has been around in all its glorious forms.
Kid A
Last time I checked, the founding fathers wrote a Constitution and Bill of Rights, not a dictionary.
Jaroslaw
Right on , Kid A!
And buddy CG – I have had these discussions with Religious Right folk – they don’t believe the studies, they question the credentials of the group conducting the study, etc. etc. etc. (I had one religious nut lady here at work ask me (when I told her Gay parents are just as good per the APA)was the American Pediatric Assn a Gay organization!!!
I was discussing politics and social policy outside the polling station where I live with people I know – I told them many religious right groups still quote “research” from people who were disbarred as lawyers, psychologists etc. Paul Cameron comes to mind – I think his son is Gay too. Apologies if I’m in correct about Paul Cameron, but one would think bald faced lies from groups claiming to follow Christ would elicit at least a “Really, wow!” but they don’t. NOTHING gets through. NOTHING. So on with the revolution – dump trucks full of cow manure on all the lawns of all the anti-Gay politicians, religious leaders….. 😉
DanGOP
While the droll little lawsuit of the ADF is going to be amusing to watch…especially since Justice Smith (deciding vote on the gay marriage case) is off the Court of Appeals.
To those, however, who claim that a dictionary is not a part of the law, go look through some Supreme Court opinions. I can think of cases that each current Justice, and other past Justices, where a dictionary is cited as the legal and finite definition of a word.
HYHYBT
#15: Perhaps Religious Nut Lady has a problem with her ears as well as between them and thought you said something like “American Pederastic Association”, which to her way of “thinking” would be a gay organization.
Jaroslaw
#17 – We had a several minute discussion about it, so it is not like I said “American Pediatric Association” once. I explained that it was a group of college trained professionals from all different institutions who get together and form policy statements like many other groups. She just wasn’t having it. Hard core religious right people are almost brainwashed by their pastors – I have some in my own family. Until you actually talk to them, you can’t believe anyone could be so completely closed minded. I have a friend of similar religious persuasion – I asked her if she doubted everything on the news, everything her doctor said etc. She didn’t of course – but on the Gay issue, the answer eventually became “I don’t care what you say, the Bible says….” So I teased her and I said, “Denise, I guess we can stop all archaeological research, close down all the seminaries because, YOU Denise, Pray and get answers…….” She laughed, she understands. I’m not even sure after our conversations she really believes EVERYTHING she says but she still goes to the same Church and spouts the same stuff. And I’m sure votes the same way, so in the end I got nowhere except lost a friend. Who may not really have been a friend anyway, I know.