Yes, getting kicked out of a cab because you grab a peck on the lips with your husband is ridiculous. But for Halifax’s Paul Laybolt, sometimes you’ve got to count your blessings: Passengers and taxi drivers arguing over what you believe is right and wrong often ends very differently.
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Gew
See? We still have fucktards up here.
They need to move to Jamaica, Zimbabwe, Uganda, and even MANY parts of the US. ANd the sooner the better.
Gew
Er… that’s the cab driver and his family, not the fare. 🙂
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Unfortunaelty this vile hatred seems to infect cab drivers in many countries. Same exact shit happened recently in NYC. A Gay couple celebrating their anniversary gave each other a kiss and the muslim cab driver refused to proceed any further and forced them out of the cab………………..
scott ny'er
what a jerk cab driver.
off topic. that dude was really cute. i’d take him where he needs to go. 🙂
CHIP1218
A few months ago I made a comment on this site about how much Halifax has changed over the past 15 years I visited. That now it seems so much more conservative, when the universities aren’t in session and the tourists aren’t around that the downtown seems very dominated by Muslim/Arab groups that are getting away with public disruption and the police didn’t do anything, yet the police were more antagonistic toward gays. That everything is starting to revolve around that Muslims/Arabs are the largest and most vocal community and it’s changing Halifax into a more conservative metropolitan area, and not the free and open Great White North us Americans assume of Canada. That my boyfriend was starting to feel uncomfortable being openly gay outside of Reflections and Menz Bar, and wouldn’t take public transportation at night in fear that he would be attacked. Oh, and I dared show sacrilege by shouting down Donair/Doner as being authentic Canadian food (It’s a Middle Eastern/Balkan Gyro/Schwarma – it’s existed for generations before it was sold in Halifax, all they did was change the ingredients and sauce!)
I’m not saying that the taxi driver was automatically a Muslim. The hate crimes and discrimination are being carried out by White Christians as well (They burned a cross on an interracial couple’s lawn when I was in Halifax in January). However, the only thing the devout Christians and devout Muslims will agree on is hating the Gays (They can’t agree on hating the Jews, since the devout Christians need the Jews to be strong in Israel to bring about the second coming of Jesus as it says in the scripture!)
After all these events I experienced the past year while my partner was in school there, I don’t think I will ever go back to that city. Too much racial tension, religious extremism, homophobia and strife waiting to explode in a major hate crime.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@CHIP1218: Get ready for being accused of being a racist and hating on certain groups when you are simply stating facts………..
Gew
@CHIP1218:
There was a study done here in Van a couple of years ago regarding the decline of liberal views here in the lower mainland.
Turns out that with the influx of many immigrants from more staid and conservative countries that our West Coast, Hippy, La La Land rep was taking a nose dive. So, yes therefore, the political flavour of an area can change based on who is living there and what their social background is, if sufficient numbers of such move into said area.
A couple of years ago, a gay couple were attacked on Davie, the heart of gay Vancouver by a small group of South Asian men resulting in one of the couple’s jaw broken in three palce and requiring it to be wired shut to heal.
Naturally, there was a backlash against southern Asians and their conservatism and anti-gay attitudes. That said, there DOES exist here, a GLBT south Asian group and at a subsequent rally, the current leader, a well spoken and thoughtful Indian woman cautioned against blanket condemnation.
For that matter, I know a handful of gay Muslim men.
We must needs be VERY careful about the broad paintbrush, which, when painting a wall works fine, but when applied to people is not the way to go.
We can’t let a subgroup of subhumans convince us that ALL of that ethnicity or belief are the same. They just get the most press and too many times, people in power will follow that path using fear of the “alien”, our xenophobic tendancies to whip up actions against ALL.
Eh, I’m rambling…
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@Gew: My biggest bitch ’bout when immigrants come to this country and demand that we change our ways, laws, traditions, and customs to accomodate them……….
Try going to any other country and demanding they acknowledge and accept your rights. In a good number of countries you stand a good chance of being imprisoned, tortured, or even sentenced to death…………
If you want to come here legally join our communities and take advantage of all this country has to offer you are welcome, unfortunately way too many are now comming here to simply take advantage of our country………….
CHIP1218
@Gew:
Things have changed when it comes to immigration over the generations. When my ancestors moved to the USA in the 1840’s and 1870’s and 1910’s, they all did their best to immediately assimilate into their local society – they learned English, they made sure their kids went to public schools, they wanted their kids to have “the American” dream. What happens now is a combination of greed and selfishness, on both the immigrants and their local community – let me explain.
There is no money to be made when someone can immigrate to the USA or Canada and in a few years be pretty self-sufficient and adjusted. Be it Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, you name the immigrant group and people within their own community want to keep them subservient, make them require their assistance to survive – these people are financial “coyotes” and they don’t want their peers to no longer need their services and be a cash cow. On the individual immigrant side, most immigrants don’t want to become part of America or Canada or wherever, they want to bring as much of their former country’s way of life they can. Many want to live amongst people of a similar background, be surrounded with their culture, and live the same type of life they did in their former country – just with a higher standard of living.
My own theory on this is now that America is a superpower and has played such a huge impact on the world since WW2, instead of people wanting to come here to pursue a better life they feel that they either HAVE to come here, or that we OWE them a better way of life on their own terms. I would never support repealing the 14th Amendment. This whole anchor baby terrorist threat is pure bullshit. However, I know that here in the USA and Canada, we have way more favorable immigration laws than the major economic powers in Europe. We are less discriminatory in our policies and provide more opportunities for those from other lands to enter legally and become full citizens. Because of this, members of different ethnic communities have found a way to turn that into a for-profit enterprise at the expense of their own community and the better interests of those individuals. You can keep your culture and heritage and religion without imposing it on others and local/national government.
Oh, and for the record, I support the right for an Islamic Cultural Center to be built near Ground Zero. A religious institution can be built anywhere in a community as long as it follows the rules and regulations of local laws. This is not the same as Nazis opening an office across the street from the Holocaust Museum – Islam is a religion, Nazism is a political philosophy (a horrible, disgusting, and should be illegal in the USA one – if it’s not already). However, if the Saudi groups that finance this Center turn it into a haven for Islamic extremists to try and recruit American Muslims to the Wahhabi ultra-conservative thought that resulted in the 9/11 attacks, I say shut them down, and then you will see the USA make those rules about minarets and burquas in Europe look like child’s play.
jimmy
@Gew: and what about the lgbt down there, you’re not really solving the problem
jimmy
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: i see what you mean, but there is nothing wrong with calling out any sort of bigotry if you perceive it, if you’re concerned about this, maybe your more sensible to people speaking against racism then racism itself, you know like the Glen Beck or Sarah Palin(not that you are, but this is really the kind of attitude that distort social conversation, you know “you’re too sensible” or “you’re a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc”, try “racism may not apply here/islamophobia not the only factor” or “what you are saying isn’t accurate/lacks nuance/somewhat short-minded”)
Jaroslaw
I wonder – does this taxi driver demand the same standards of all his fares? Are they divorced? Do they cheat on their taxes? Do they go Church/Synagogue/Mosque? Have they ever committed a crime? Or worse, are they a politician?
Black Pegasus
Cab Drivers are ALL a bunch of Donkey Shit!
Michael
@CHIP1218: Immigrants “now” just want to bring over their own culture? Can you explain to me when this is ever NOT the case?
When the British and the French came over they wanted to live their British and French lives, except here in North America. Eastern Europeans? Same thing. Italians? Same thing. South Asian and Middle Eastern? Same thi-wait they’re just like all of the other immigrants? Crazy talk.
The only difference seems to be that almost all of them are not Christian.
The US and Canada didn’t have the privilege of developing a solid identity over centuries like countries in Europe and Asia have, (we’ll leave Native issues out of the argument). So to ask immigrants to check their cultural identity at the door and put on their new “American” or “Canadian” identity is sort of comical.
PS. But let’s be honest, the “American Dream” is a meaningless arbitrary definition of success. Success is not an American-only value, they just created a new phrase and put their name in it to make it seem like some sort patriotic act to go to work, support your family, and buy things. Muslim and Hindu immigrants want their children to succeed too. Maybe they don’t call it the “American Dream” or maybe they do, but either way most people move to North America to ensure better lives for their offspring. If you want to call that selfish than you may want to look back at the history of North America. (Insert Native issues here?)
CHIP1218
@Michael:
When people used to immigrate to the USA, they brought their local culture, food, etc., but as long as they were literate they LEARNED English, conducted business with the local authorities in English, and functioned in society in English.
Now, you have immigrants who have lived in the USA for 20-30 years who DON’T SPEAK ANY ENGLISH. You can’t expect someone to pick it up overnight, but to go half your life or longer living here and not learn the language only happens because of one of three reasons – 1) They are illiterate. 2) Their own local community doesn’t do anything to get them to learn English because they want them to NEED their assistance and only spend money with them because they can’t conduct any business transactions outside of their home language. 3) The immigrant sees that one doesn’t need to learn English within their own community, because everything is there for them (usually at a markup) and this gives them a feeling that they are still in their former way of life.
The immigrant communities before WW2 took in immigrants from their home nation/community and helped them get adapted to living here, helped them get a job, helped them learn English. Nowadays, they want you not to learn English so you can work for them for less wages, so you rely on them for communication purposes with the rest of American society, and you are stuck doing business with them so they line their pockets with your money. As I said, financial coyotes. They are just as bad as those taking money to smuggle illegals into this country. They take advantage of the poorest, and neediest of their own community.
Those who in the past didn’t learn English if they lived here for decades were illiterate or too old to learn a new language in their minds. There is absolutely no excuse for a 20 or 30 something to move to the United States and not learn basic English within 5 years.
Michael
@CHIP1218: From my experience, living in the city that is home to the most immigrants in Canada, (as well as a part of the city that has a high concentration of Asian and South Asian immigrants) most immigrants I encounter speak English.
I can’t, however, speak for your city/town.
B
No. 3 · PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS wrote, “Unfortunaelty this vile hatred seems to infect cab drivers in many countries. Same exact shit happened recently in NYC. A Gay couple celebrating their anniversary gave each other a kiss and the muslim cab driver refused to proceed any further and forced them out of the cab”
… the cab driver was lucky he was not working in California as, due to the Unruh Civil Rights Act, he could get his ass sued for a civil-rights violation – businesses are not allowed to discriminate on the basis or race, sexual-orientation, gender, etc.
Not sure what the law is in NY or NYC, but I’d imagine it is similar – it’s probably just a question of which state has the most lawyers.
adman
@Michael: Way to re-write history. My Grandmother came from Russia and refused to teach her children Russian, out of a fierce belief in the American assimilation ideas that were everywhere at the time. In the community she lived in, her opinion was the norm. The reason I know this is that while she was alive, we grandkids heard her diatribes about it daily, about how it used to be the norm to assimilate in the 50’s, but now, (this was in the 80’s) her daughters resented her for “denying them their culture”. She would insist, “You’re American that’s your culture!” BTW her neighborhood in Philly included Russians, Poles, Italians and Puerto Ricans mainly. She was also an inveterate racist, but that’s a different story.
CHIP1218
@adman:
EXACTLY. All the immigrants who came via Ellis Island were lumped into the same neighborhoods, they learned English and they became Americans. That doesn’t mean they stopped being Irish, Italian, Puerto Rican, Turkish, whatever, but they learned English and became a part of American society. For the past 40 years, that has all wiped out. The only immigrant group who go out of their way to learn English are those on student visas, and most of them end up not being able to stay in the USA!
Michael
@adman: I’m sorry, I’m re-writing history? Please enlighten me.
I addressed the idea that “now” immigrants just want to live with people of their cultural background and bring as much of their culture over as possible. As stated by Chip here:
“most immigrants don’t want to become part of America or Canada or wherever, they want to bring as much of their former country’s way of life they can. Many want to live amongst people of a similar background, be surrounded with their culture, and live the same type of life they did in their former country – just with a higher standard of living.”
As evident by Little Italy’s, Chinatown’s, Greektown’s, Little Poland’s, and other cultural niches found across North America it is quite clear that this has ALWAYS been the case. Immigrants have ALWAYS wanted to live with people of their own cultural background (at least at first) in order to make the process of immigrating easier. This isn’t some sort of new phenomenon with “those people” from South Asia. As I said in my second post, almost all immigrants I encounter in the most immigrant-heavy region of Canada speak English.
Lastly, my grandparents came from Italy in the 50s so I’m not ignorant to the realities of immigration in the 50s.
adman
@Michael: The subject (although in concession, it is a thread jack, since this is a thread about Homophobic acts by a cab driver) was Immigrants coming here and bringing their socially conservative values, refusing to assimilate, and then legislating their beliefs on the natives. I don’t see where your argument answers those assertions, since in eras long past LGBT issues weren’t a question of identity as they are now. Now that I’m (apparently) competing with your Italian Grandparents, I am to assume I must solve all of their problems in their communities before I can get my rights?
I ask because that’s the way these arguments go when discussing the topic with mealy mouthed social conservatives like them. So yeah, you’re re-writing history, and blotting out the LGBT movement for rights and dignity. Would you like us all to line up for our lobotomies now, since we are mentally ill, according to 50’s diagnostic standards? It works both ways, but lapdogs like you need a little hyperbole to get you going, I’ve noticed.
Michael
@adman: Oh boy here we go.
I was in no way defending people’s values infringing on OUR community. There is no competition with my grandparents, I wasn’t trying to play some sort of victim by saying I come from a family of immigrants. You brought up your Russian grandmother and didn’t speak to LGBT rights whatsoever so don’t pretend that I’m somehow deviating anymore than you are from the supposed “subject” of this thread.
The idea that new immigrants are legislating their conservative beliefs on the natives of America or Canada is comical. We acquire more and more immigrants daily and yet LGBT rights seem to continue on their way to equality. To pretend that it is mostly new immigrants who are anti-gay or leading the anti-gay movement is, quite frankly, a joke.
If you think new immigrants “assimilating” in America means taking on a pro-gay attitude, you are beyond deluded. In case you hadn’t noticed it is the parts of your country that are almost completely white that are the most homophobic. I believe they call themselves the “real America”?
Thanks for the personal attack at the end though, really shows the calibre of your argument.
adman
@Michael: Blah Blah Blah, LIES, Blah Blah Blah.
Who voted for prop 8 here in CA then?
Lapdog. But then you’re in Canada, (where I’ll be in about 5 months, with partner(husband) thanks very much) and you have your rights. Thanks for clogging up this thread with your complacency. It’s only every LGBT’s future among 26o million Americans at stake here legislatively. You probably still feel good about Obama’s election. Sad.
Michael
As of 2008 America had a 75% white (not unluding white-hispanic or latino) demographic. Ignore the facts all you want, but your country (the one with 75% white people residing in it) still has one of the most backward views on homosexuality in the Western World.
I hope you enjoy your stay in Canada with your husband.
adman
@Michael: 75% percent of California voters were “white” then? And none of those were “white” immigrants then? What about the Ukranian mob in Sacramento working feverishly at this moment to get LGBT Ugandans killed? Hmmmm..I hadn’t thought of that piece of propaganda..erm disinformation, oh whatever. I think it’s more likely that you lack reading comprehension and/or don’t want to face the truth. Lesser educated minority and immigrant communities combine to undermine LGBT rights in US elections time after time. And I need you to tell me how repressive it is here? You should learn how to read, seriously, Micheal. Nothing personal. (shrugs)
Michael
@adman: You’re telling me to learn how to read and then you ask me if 75% of the California voters were white when I quite clearly stated that America has a 75% white population and did not mention California at all?
In 2005 the state of Kansas had a vote to approve a gay marriage ban. 97% voted yes, to ban gay marriage. You seem to ignore the large number of Americans whose families have strong ties to America in terms of heritage who consistently vote against gay marriage and gay rights.
This clearly isn’t going anywhere, seeing as your counter-argument consists of claiming I don’t know how to read. Think what you’d like.
adman
@Michael: I’M talking about CA you f*cking numbskull!!!! Again if you don’t want to follow along, you don’t get to argue, understand? These are the rules at the big people’s table.
CHIP1218
Wow, all I wanted to point out is that Halifax has some serious issues with their immigrant population, the clash between Arab/Muslim and native Canadian identity, and how this taxi incident is minor and soon enough there will be a much bigger hate crime.
Face it, everything has changed except the nativists, the xenophobes, and the bible-thumpers – they just don’t wear white hooded robes anymore! The immigrants of the past two generations have taken their sweet time assimilating into their new home because it’s either more convenient for them or those who enticed them to come here want them more pliable and subservient to further their financial endeavors. What, non-mafia ethnics don’t take advantage of their own kind? Look at every major financial scheme targeted at immigrants and see who was behind the scheme.
Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. were right on top of each other. Immigrants lived in the Lower East Side, you had those 4 blocks filled with Polish, those 6 with Russians, those 8 with Italians, etc. They didn’t avoid each other entirely, they worked together, went to public schools together, etc. The way immigration works nowadays is like the company town in the 19th century – a rich family from a specific community brings people from his home country to immigrate by sponsoring them. This wealthy benefactor finds them housing and a job – both which tend to benefit the benefactor. Or the immigrants paid someone to bring them here and are in debt to that person or persons until the debt is paid off. The only immigrants who don’t seem to owe anyone here anything are those that seek asylum, those who win a green card lottery, or those who got sponsorship through a job offer here in the US. When you’re grandparents immigrated here, they showed up by boat and were either allowed in or not. They didn’t have relatives go through the hurdles of sponsorship. I have friends and family who have been waiting over 10 years to enter this country, it’s always “we need another copy of this document”, or “this was valid when you submitted this to us 7 years ago, but now we need a newer version” or “we changed our rules since you started the process, but we can’t grandfather you in so you need to do this all over”. So immigrants without any English skills are mainly getting into this country at the financial benefit of someone else, not how it was in the generations your grandparents emigrated.
Jaroslaw
Chip – interesting commentary, but considering most if not all Islamic countries are Theocracies, I don’t think you can say Islam is only a religion. Most people from there would be expected to see the government and religion as parallel or the ‘same’.
I’m not sure what you were saying about the anchor baby threat but I personally feel that if someone comes here illegally, then their child is illegal too. That anchor rule may have made sense 100 years ago, but I don’t see why we need it now. As currently practiced, I don’t see how anyone cannot view automatic citizenship for a child as a reward for illegal behavior.
Perhaps what is illegal needs to be reconsidered, but I’m speaking of what is supposedly the law NOW and everyone should play by the same rules. How naive am I – probably has never happened and never will!