HEADLINES: Obama Smart To Deny Gay Marriage?, Rabbis Who Don’t Hate Gays

ON OUR GAYDAR — News, notes, clicks, and quips from around the web.

From Queerty HQ to you: Have a lovely Labor Day Weekend! We may be checking in periodically, but otherwise we’ll see you on Tuesday!


• The Gossip’s Beth Ditto gives Obama a pat on the back for not backing gay marriage. Then again, Ms. Ditty believes marriage is for fools: “I think that [Obama] is smart and he’s playing the field and taking… I mean, health care is more important than marriage, because marriage is stupid anyway.”

• A British male inmate who identifies as a transgender female, and who’s serving life for manslaughter and attempted rape, has been granted a transfer to a female prison after an arduous court battle.

• It helps to own the media if you’re Italy’s Prime Minster Silvio Berlusconi. His family’s newspaper Il Giornale, headed by Vittorio Feltri, has been “smearing” Dino Boffo, editor of Avvenire (the paper for the Italian Bishops Conference) with accusations of being a big homo — a charge Boffo denies. But the media assault “violated my life,” says Boffo, and forced him to step down.


• We really enjoyed this pair of pieces: Tablet‘s profile of Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld, the Jewish Orthodox leader in Washington D.C. who sups with power brokers and doesn’t hate the homos, but still thinks their “lifestyles” are wrong; and the Times‘ profile of Rabbi Margaret Moers Wenig (pictured), a lesbian rabbi who’s blown a few Jewish minds that assume temple leaders must be straight and male.

• The problem with drugs abuse and the gays is that … we don’t understand what a healthy lifestyle is?

• Why are New Jersey’s conservative Roman Catholics, spearheading a campaign against same-sex marriage there, so lax in their own tradition of staying the course on social issues? They’re launching a full blown campaign against gay marriage, and yet they’re denouncing Obama’s universal health care plan (abortion! scary!) … because they won’t promote liberal issues at all? Religious Dispatches: “Instead of proudly stating the Catholic tradition on universal health care and then demanding that abortion be excluded from public option benefits, the Catholic bishops have started from a place of opposition and, in so doing, failed to uphold a core social teaching of the Church.”

• A New York Assemblyman supports gay marriage. And he’s a Republican.

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  • InExile

    Well, that’s just wonderful Miss Ditto gives Obama a pass! After all we know there are more important issues than gays having equal rights, there always has been SOMETHING more important.

    Anyway, he is a failure at everything else with his hallmark “NO LEADERSHIP” on anything I may add. The radical right is winning and it is all his fault.

  • tjr101

    @InExile: If it gives you comfort to blame Obama for everything go right ahead, it solves a lot.

    The sky is falling…it’s Obama’s fault!

  • schlukitz


    And with that silly comment as proof, you probably believe that Obama is the savior that the Queer Nation has been waiting for and therefore he can do no wrong!

    So typical of a sycophant.

  • sebastian

    who cares what the fat chick thinks

  • InExile

    She is ugly isn’t she?

  • Mike K

    I think big girl here is confusing “black”, with “cool”. Not always the same thing.

  • tjr101

    @schlukitz: And your comments proves your ignorance. You are probably the type that built up your hopes in a politian and now your so crushed that you blame him for everything that goes wrong. Oh Obama is such a bigot…SOB SOB SOB.

    No Obama I do not believe Obama is our saviour… but blaming him for every frecking thing is just dumb. Petiton your congress rep to get the fucking thing to his desk. Get off your fat ass and do something.

  • schlukitz


    Let’s see if I have this right now?

    I’m wrong to criticize the lack of action by my President.

    I’m ignorant.

    I’m dumb.

    I’m fat.

    And I am lazy.

    Thank you for your informed opinions. They speak for themselves, so no further comment on my behalf is required.

  • tjr101

    @schlukitz: I was merely stating my opinion of some folks on here who thinks blaming Obama for everything that goes wrong just won’t get us anywhere.

    You attacked my opinions by calling me a sycophant…lol
    Some people can dish it but just can’t take it!

  • schlukitz


    No one was “dishing it out” as you seem to believe.

    I used the word sycophant in the context of one person who caters to another. If you chose to take insult from that comment, then I suggest you were looking for insult where none was intended.

    I hardly think that calling someone ignorant, dumb, fat and lazy is quite in the same league as suggesting that someone is sticking up for another is justification for the barrage of personal insults you unleashed.

  • tjr101

    I respond in kind. Apparently my comments about another persons post ticked you off enough to respond. You started the personal attacks. Funny that from a few lines you will say that I believe Obama is a saviour and that it’s typical of a sycophant. How else is that suppose to be interpreted?

    You’re adding words to what I said. I never said dumb and lazy. Of course you don’t consider sycophant in the same league as to what I said. One dimensional. If you through out words like that to my post I will respond in kind. Don’t just say things like that and get all hissy when I reply.

  • schlukitz


    You’re adding words to what I said. I never said dumb and lazy.

    Oh really now? And you, Sir, are a disingenuous liar.

    I quote from your post no. 7.

    but blaming him for every frecking thing is just dumb.

    Get off your fat ass and do something.

    The second comment could have no other context but the suggestion that I am too lazy to get off my fat ass and do something.

    At least be man enough to own-up to your own words instead of trying to worm-out of what you said.

  • tjr101


    It’s apparent to me that you have a problem when people state opinions that you don’t agree with. Had it been your original post I was replying to begin with I would think this was a worthy debate.

    By you quoting “but blaming him for every frecking thing is just dumb” proves to me that you do actually blame him for everything which is why you take offense to that statement. You’re just proving my point.

    “Get off your fat ass and do something” I honestly hope you are not doing this and actually petitioning your local rep for something to happen.

    No one is worming out of anything. You”Sir” haven’t owned up to anything.

  • schlukitz


    And it’s apparent that you have a problem with telling the truth and owning-up to your insults. I just caught you in a bald-faced lie and you wiggled your way right out of it.

    You lied by saying that you never used the words “dumb” or “lazy”.

    I proved that you lied by quoting the two sentences in which you DID, in fact, use those terms. In both instances, you used a red herring argument to gloss over what you actually said.

    And as to your questioning what I am doing to make something happen, I won’t even presume to ask you what you’re doing, because you’d probably lie about that as well.

    There is no onus on me to have to “own-up” to anything (another red herring)because I did not deny anything in my response to you. I stand by everything I said.

    I am a man of my word. I called you an Obama sycophant and I will say it yet once again without the need to lie as you did.

  • schlukitz


    It’s apparent to me that you have a problem when people state opinions that you don’t agree with.

    Umm…I do believe that you have your facts a little mixed-up there.

    You disagreed in your initial post no. 2 with what InExile had to say in his post no. 1.

    Then you disagreed with your post no. 7 to what I said in my post no. 3.

    It’s apparent to me that it it is YOU, not me, who has a problem when people state opinions that you don’t agree with, namely, InExile and myself.

    Shen you take a jab at someone else’s post, as you did with InExile, then you have to expect someone to take a jab at you. You’re the one who dished it out…and you’ve made it readily apparent that it’s you can’t take it.

  • InExile

    @tjr101: This man made promises and has taken no action in support of those promises, where I come from we call that fraud! Go ahead and keep your faith in your savior but you only have until 2012, he is a one term guy like Jimmy Carter.

  • tjr101


    I’m glad that you responded to my post. I laugh at the term saviour because I definitley don’t view any politician in that light.

    Having said this, Obama is no doubt the most gay friendly president in this nation’s history. That says a lot about our history. And if in fact he is going to be a one term president I hope you like what’s coming from the GOP. Let’s see how gay friendly they are.

  • lloyd Baltazar

    I don’t care for this one Lesbian’s opinion. Just because there are other important issues in this country such as health care and war terrorism that DOES NOT mean that Gays & Lesbians who are persecuted, shamed, fired, and discriminated everyday does not have the right to validate their oppression and demand for social change.

    Just because this Lesbian pig thinks Gay Marriage is of secondary importance that does NOT mean she speaks for the whole Gay & Lesbian community and their social needs and struggles.


  • schlukitz


    Obama is no doubt the most gay friendly president in this nation’s history

    It’s not just the presidents “gay friendliness” alone that matters.

    President Ford doesn’t count?


    Kerry-Edward doesn’t count?


    And what of Dick Cheney, most friendly VP ever?


  • schlukitz

    @lloyd Baltazar:

    Co-sign on that!

  • tjr101


    Kerry-Edwards? they lost.

    What are the policies he instituted while in office that were gay friendly? Everyone seems to magically become gay friendly after their term.

    Dick Cheney…lol, thats not even worth a response.

    You want to judge the present holder of the office after seven months?

  • M Shane

    The only thing that the unthinking gay “marriage” movement has done was to get the heterosexual community either up in arms or convinced that Marriage was (as it is) a valued social contract of primarily religious proportions between a man and woman. When things were in less of a flurry, in Clintons administration, nobody blames him not only for backing down but for letting things become worse.

    Now, even though, when the general public will accept it , and it is what Obama suggested and will help with, the gay fetishists want to insist on lauching a religious war via the Government, instead of taking the rather sensible course of leaving marriage to the religious and proposing partnership rights as a secular government function, as they should be.

    If you want to quible witgh the Religions go get holy on your own time . You sure as hell won’t get my support for something so dimwitted.

  • schlukitz


    You want to judge the present holder of the office after seven months?

    Why, yes, as a matter of fact.

    Not only is it my democratic right, it is also my duty as an informed and aware American Citizen.

  • schlukitz

    @M Shane:

    You sure as hell won’t get my support for something so dimwitted.

    We now return you to the regularly scheduled program in progress.

  • tjr101


    Fair enough. It’s quite a stretch to expect anything in 7 months. Yet you give someone like Cheney the benefit of the doubt after 8 years…lol
    Something tells me your beef with Obama is more than just gay rights.

    While you wait for a miracle by the stroke of a pen. It’s my right as an American citizen to see change happen through the legislative process. Funny the last eight years we weren’t even having this discussion about gay rights. It was about constitutional amendments.

    There you go again attacking someone else’s comments…lol

  • Chitown Kev

    @M Shane:

    Civil Unions for all, change the wording of all the laws on the state and federal books that say “marriage” to “civil unions” and leave the marriages to the churches only? I could go for that.

    But look at what’s happening in Washington state now? The bigots don’t even want to give up a simple DP without putting it on the ballot.

  • schlukitz


    Something tells me your beef with Obama is more than just gay rights.”

    If this is a thinly-veiled attempt to accuse me of racism, it’s a epic fail.

    I campaigned, urged my family and friends to vote for Obama, contributed time and money and voted for this man.

    My beef with the President has to do with failing to deliver the promises he posted on http://www.whitehouse.org and the fact that he even took one down…DOMA.

    It’s my right and my duty not only as an American taxpayer, but as a gay man, to hold Mr. Obama’s feet to the fire. He promised to be a “fierce advocate” for gay civil-rights.

    Where is the evidence of that promise? I don’t buy the lame excuse that so many gays offer for his lack of action being due to “having so much on his plate”.

    If I, at the age of 73, can by simply sneezing, fart, shit and wet my pants, all at the same time, then Mr. Obama, who is much younger than me, should certainly be able to multi-task. LOL

  • schlukitz

    @Chitown Kev:


  • Chitown Kev


    well, schlukitz and I have basically the same beef with Obama about gay rights (actually I have a few other beefs with Obama as well). And I’m black. Explain that.

    Basically he just seems like a recycled Bill Clinton, thus far. And if i sat out of the 1996 elections, I can surely sit out of the 2012 elections if the pattern keeps up.

  • tjr101


    Again I’m saying 7 months. You can’t expect wonders in SEVEN MONTHS! When you are dealing with the greatest recession since the great depression and an out of control healthcare debate what do you expect?

    I have tremendous respect for what you have seen in your lifetime and the experiences you have been through. Had I known your age before hand I might have bite my tongue (might) …lol

    The fact is gay rights is not even the top priority of 15 percent of the population. Obama is a politician and he will promise the world on a plata to get elected and he will go with the numbers and the numbers are for the economy and healthcare.

    If Obama turns out to be a one term president it will not be because of inaction on gay rights. Get things done through the legislature and get it to his desk. IF he vetoes then it will be fire and brimstone.

  • tjr101

    @Chitown Kev:

    All well and good if you sit out 2012. For me the possibility of a GOP president and the same BS of the last 8 yrs is not an option.

    Keep recycling Bill Clinton!

  • Chitown Kev


    7 months is long enough to discern a pattern of sorts, though. Some of this seems like deja vu.

    I get where you are going with that though. The way I put is that every President has had minor and even major fuck-ups in his first year and, of course, I don’t expect Obama to be an exception to that. To that extent, I am giving him some breathing space as he learns the job.

    And do quit it with the “any and all opposition or criticism of Obama is racist” crap. Besides, Obama is, in part, responsible for the health care debate being so out of control.

  • Chitown Kev


    Uh, D = not R.

    For this particular voter, that particular equation doesn’t work very well (of course I live in a relatively safe D state)…I don’t scare that easily, having lived through Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes…

    OTOH if the nominee is the Wasilla Wench…

  • Bill Perdue

    @tjr101: To put it mildly you seem a bit glassy eyed about Obama and more than a bit myopic about his critics.

    So let’s clear up some of your misstatements and then I have a question for you.

    We have a two year history of Obama’s views and actions on all the major questions. Not the seven month period you falsely claim.

    That history exposes his mean spirited, bigot-pandering hostility to GLBT liberation. Obama started his campaign in bed with homohating scum like Donnie McClurkin, who the New York Times says is a “preacher who sang at the Republican National Convention in 2004, has gained notoriety for his view that homosexuality is a choice and can be ‘cured’ through prayer, a view ridiculed by gay people.” Organized by Obama’s Minister of Bigotry, a homohating ordained pentecostal minister named Josh Dubois, McClurkin ran a series of cult revival meetings disguised as Obama rallies. Or vice versa; it was hard to tell.

    Then Josh Dubois, Obama’s cult outreach director built a nationwide network of cultists for Obama during the elections. Obama and Dubois made major inroads into the Republican bigot base set up by Karl Rove. They out-Roved Rove.

    All of that work paid off big time for Obama when Dubois got him invited to Rick Warren’s bigot fest where he nailed the bigot vote with his homohating war cry “gawd’s in the mix”. He never repudiated that rancid bit of homohating and Warren’s southern baptists, along with the catholic and mormon cults went to town with it, using it to torpedo same sex marriage in California. Then Warren got his payoff; he was invited to speak before billions at the Inaugural.

    Then Obama’s DoJ used vile language to Defend Clintons DOMA.

    Now Obama says he won’t act on DADT and instead of fighting against DOMA he supports it.

    Obama appointed a council of christer ‘spirit’ advisors, most of them bigoted opponents of same sex marriage.

    He appointed Josh Dubois, his lead man in lining up the McClurkin bigot fest to run the billion dollar bribery scheme at the White House Office of “Faith-Based” and Neighborhood Partnerships.

    But you claim that he’s not hostile, he’s just a bit absentminded because he’s so busy.

    And you’re right.

    He’s ‘busily’ pursuing a racist war in South Asia that involves the mass murder of civilians in Afghanistan, genocide in Iraq and picking up the tab for zionist ethnic cleansing and apartheid.

    Obama ‘busily’ cemented his racist credentials when he denied health care to health care to immigrant and imported workers.

    He’s ‘busily’ bullying the UAW misleadership into giving up the basics of their contract and strong armed them into accepting managements deep cuts in pay and benefits.

    He’s ‘busily’ writing trillion dollar welfare checks for the looter rich and predatory lending but refuses to call for massive aid to states crumbling under the weight of an unemployment crisis not seen since the Great Depression. HIV /AIDs programs are being cut and if we don’t get some help people are going to start dying because he’s so busy.

    He’s ‘busily’ ignoring the plight of people losing their homes by forgiving their debt and he’s ‘busily’ opposing single-payer socialized medicine while ‘busily’ accepting millions in ‘contributions’ from the same owners and managers of HMO’s and etc.

    If he’s busy it’s because he’s devoting all him time to being a homohater, a racist, a oil pirate and a union buster. So now let me ask you a question.

    My question is: is that why you like him?

    (Save your self the embarrassment accusing me of being a Republican. I despise both Republican and Democrat politicians. I’m a socialist.)

  • me

    Obama is showing himself up to be more and more of a loser everyday. It’s strange, the more the right wing hates him, the more he attempts to appease them by dumping on progressives. He dumped the gay issues he said he’d address day one in office, he’s dumping the public option, he dumped Van Jones because Glenn Beck told him to…what’s next?

  • Schteve

    @Bill Perdue:

    You forgot telling Alxcee Hastings to remove his DADT killing amendment when Congress actually was trying to do something about it! ;)

    All of which are reasons I join in your sentiments of not being particularly fond of either party.

  • Bill Perdue

    @schlukitz: Thanks. “Offal Office.” I love it.

    I was getting tired of that tjr character. Democrats can be such arrogant jackasses – they even presume to get angry at us when we object to being run over by the Obama bus.

    Or they get all pissy when the left advocates voting for communist or socialist candidates because, even though they’re having hissy fits about Obama now, they voted for him and will do it again. Totally self destructive behavior. People who deal with abused spouses run into it from time to time – sickos who go back for another dose of punishment.

    As EV Debs, the founder of our railroader union and a dedicated socialist educator/candidate said. “It’s better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” These jackass Democrat apologists gave us Obama and now they want us roll over and play dead. They hate being reminded about Obama because it’s a repudiation of their support for him.

    Apologetics for Obama are not what’s on the agenda for unions, who are beginning to wake up. Just this weekend we got a very big announcement that shows what I’m talking about. And it’s very bad news for Democrats.

    It’s a demonstration organized by trade unions in the Bail Out People Movement. http://www.bailoutpeople.org/ Organized in response to the world economic crisis, its set for Sunday, Sept. 20th in Pittsburgh, PA to coincide with the meeting of the G20 there. The demands of the Bail Out People Movement are:
    – A Jobs Program for All
    – A Moratorium on Layoffs, Foreclosures and Evictions
    – No Cuts in Social Services
    – Fund People’s Needs, not War and Greed

    The demo already has already lots of endorsers:

    – United Steel Workers of America (USWA)
    – United Electrical Workers Union (UE)
    – San Francisco Labor Council
    – Donna Dewitt, President of South Carolina AFL-CIO
    – Cynthia McKinney, DIGNITY
    – Cindy Sheehan
    – Chris Silvera, Sec. Treasurer of Teamsters 808 in N.Y.
    – ILWU Local 10
    – Letter Carriers Union, Local 214

    The Interim National Steering Committee of the Workers Emergency Recovery Campaign (WERC) includes:

    • Kali Akuno, Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, Gulf Coast Reconstruction activist
    • Alan Benjamin,* Executive Committee member, San Francisco Labor Council
    • Mike Carano, Progressive Democrats of America
    • Colia Clark, Veteran, Civil Rights Movement
    • Donna Dewitt*, President, South Carolina AFL-CIO
    • Pat Gowens, National organizer, Welfare Warriors
    • Bill Leumer,* International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Local 853 (ret.)
    • Luis Magaña, Coordinator, Organization of Farmworkers of California (OTAC)
    • Cynthia McKinney, Former Member of Congress, 2009 Green Party presidential candidate
    • Jack Rasmus, Economist, Professor at St. Mary’s College
    • Al Rojas, Coordinator, Frente de Mexicanos en el Exterior
    • Marc Rich*, United Teachers of Los Angeles
    • Cindy Sheehan, Gold Star mother, antiwar activist
    • Clarence Thomas, Member, ILWU Local 10
    • Mark Vorpahl*, SEIU Local 49, Portland, OR
    • Nancy Wohlforth*, Co-Pres., Pride at Work/AFL-CIO, Vice Pres.,California Federation of Labor *

    (* titles and organizations for id. purposes only)

    I don’t have to tell you how big that is and that it’s another nail in the political coffin of Democrats and Republicans. As the left predicted, Hopey Changey is turning to rage, and this time the heavy infantry of social change, unions, are on top of it.

    BTW, E.V. Debs hated scumbag corporate lawyers. They really are such pigs.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Schteve: Sorry. There are just too many backstabbings and betrayals that it’s easy to lose track of them.

  • Bill Perdue

    @me: “the more he attempts to appease them by dumping on progressives”

    Nothing strange about it. Like most Democratic politicians Obama is a right centrist moving right. So are his apologists. They’re all putting down payments on their log cabins.

  • Leona Trotsky

    Hey Mr. Perdue: that is quite the event you have posted. A concise mission statement, pegged to a specific action (G-20), with a list of powerful names that are actually engaged (instead of just lending their names).

    Call us when the gay march on Washington gets its act together like that.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Leona Trotsky: is Mikey Bedwetter. He has several other aliases. As they’re exposed as Republicans in drag he discards them.

    I wouldn’t waste a second calling a burned out right-wing has been like that.

    BTW, Mikey, did you know that E.V. Debs had nothing but contempt for scumbag corporate lawyers. They’re such pigs. You know the type. Debs said “I never had much faith in leaders. I am willing to be charged with almost anything, rather than to be charged with being a leader. I am suspicious of leaders, and especially of the intellectual variety. Give me the rank and file every day in the week. If you go to the city of Washington, and you examine the pages of the Congressional Directory, you will find that almost all of those corporation lawyers and cowardly politicians, members of Congress, and mis-representatives of the masses — you will find that almost all of them claim, in glowing terms, that they have risen from the ranks to places of eminence and distinction. I am very glad I cannot make that claim for myself. I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks.”

  • schlukitz

    @Bill Perdue:

    I’m afraid that I am one of the many hopefuls who who were tired of the 8 long years of Bushshit, who drank the Kool Aide and voted for Obama.

    We were so desirous of change, that not only did he dazzzle us with his brilliance, he totally baffled us with his bullshit.

    It won’t happen again.

    I could not agree with you more about corporate lawyers. Total scumbags.

    Unfortunately, most of them go on to become politicians! Litle wonder that we get the quality of government that we deserve.

  • schlukitz

    @Bill Perdue:

    Call us when the gay march on Washington gets its act together like that.

    Another “Surf-by shooting” as Vernonvanderbilt likes to say. LOL

  • alan brickman

    Beth Ditto!… regardless of what you “think”…you can still get married when you change your mind…fat homophobe…

  • Bill Perdue

    @schlukitz: Don’t feel out of it. Millions of others made the same mistake and are paying for it. The 10 million unemployed, the millions losing their homes and cars and paying jacked up rates for credit. The GIs getting killed, burned, maimed and shredded fighting for Exxon-Mobile or Chevron-Texaco. And worst of all we’ve got a Clinton clone in the White House – Clinton as in DOMA; Clinton as in DADT. All the liberals and Democrats are upset that he’s not paying any attention to us but smart folks are afraid of what might happen when he does.

    A little over a third of those eligible voted for Obama and a little under a third for McCain. They have no choice in the quadrennial contest to find the lesser evil. The way to end that is by protest votes for communist or socialist candidates for now and push in the union movement to unleash the Labor Party. For now they have the most potential to do serious educational work during elections, mobilizing opposition to the twin parties of war, economic looting and bigotry.

    Some make the mistake of projecting their ideas and hopes on Republican and Democratic ‘leaders’ who don’t give a rat’s ass about us. They take care of the rich and the rich take care of them. That’s how LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and the rest got rich in office and after. That’s how Obama’s doing it with his secret meetings with the owners of insurance, HMOs and Big Pharma – the evil triad – sabotaging even his minimalist heath care reforms.

    Part of the mistake is in thinking that we’re dealing with serious political people. People who ‘make it’ in politics do so by selling themselves to the highest bidder. In another context they’d be ticketed for prostitution, but not in Congress or the White House.

    Another illusion is thinking that an individual candidate, even assuming they wanted to, would have a chance in hell of changing things. The fundamental character the two parties has been remarkably consistent since the Civil War.

    Both are right centrist and while occasionally willing to appease unions, populists, etc. during periods of mass mobilization, they dance in lockstep on questions from socialized medicine to imposed austerity for working people and trillion dollar handouts to the looter rich. Dosey-do and Allemande Right.

    Both are imperialist and expansionist from the wars to exterminate native Americans to Iraq. The US maintains 761 military bases in 150 countries and vast networks of spies, saboteurs, and assassins. It maintains an open concentration camp in Guantanamo and other secret camps. That’s a totally bipartisan effort.

    On the questions of homohating, immigrant bashing, racism, and misogyny the various civil rights and anti-discrimination laws they passed turn out to be too lame to solve problems. What a shocker?

    The Democrats and the Republicans are the entrenched parties of the rich, of imperial wars and of homohating bigots. They cannot be changed because they and their candidates are owned, lock, stock and barrel.

    As for Mikie Bedwetters little drive bys, they’re just his knee-jerk way of conceding that he’s out of it, that history has left him and his liberal illusions in the dust, and that all he can do from now on is sit in his little log cabin muttering about commies under every bed.

  • robert

    @Chitown Kev:

    Civil unions for all….NOT going to fly. If you polled straights, I doubt if you’d find the majority of them opting for them while marriage is the gold standard across the globe. Civil unions will NEVER reach that status, they are passé and have been abandoned in seven countries thus far, e.g. Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Canada and South Africa. Denmark will be next and in the states of Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire.

  • schlukitz

    @Bill Perdue:

    Thank you for your words of support.

    My comments were not meant to imply that I feel out of it. I just meant that it would be a cold day in hell when I voted for another Democrat, after this miserable let-down by Obama. Lots of beautiful words and promises and no action. Meh!

    That said, neither would I vote for a Republican. I see no significant difference between either of the two political parties except the fact that they have a get-to-gether every four years to toss their hats into the ring and see who gets to wear the white hats and the black hats.

    Either way, it’s “big business as usual”.

  • edgyguy1426

    @tjr101: I don’t know how you can connect ‘blaming Obama for every frecking thing’ and ‘get off your fat ass and do something.’

    Now I’m only down on Obama for his lack of leadership in regards to LGBT rights, but how can you assume the ‘complainers’ aren’t doing much themselves on behalf of our rights? Unless you have some Romper Room looking glass wherein you can see into these various posters’ lives and see which are and which are not being active on our (and their own behalf,) I wouldn’t go so far as to assume that much.

  • Chitown Kev


    Marriage wouldn’t be the gold standard if the civil benefits weren’t attached to them, you missed my point. I mean, attach all the rights associated with marriage to civil unions, open civil unions up to any two people and let the church have the damn word. But strip marriage of any governmental benefits.

    That I could go for.

  • Robert, NYC

    @Chitown Kev:

    Actually I did get your point. What I’m saying is though most straight Americans go through a civil marriage, I don’t see them supporting civil unions. Civil unions will NEVER be the gold standard and will never be recognized around the world. Its just not realistic. That said, what I would think is doable provided there is enough support though republicans wouldn’t go for it, would be for states to stop issuing marriage licenses to people who want a religious marriage as well as eliminating any federal rights attached to it. To me, that’s in direct conflict between separation of church and state.

    One pragmatic solution to all of this would be to adopt the French system of marriage whereby straight couples must go through a civil ceremony for it to be valid and for those so inclined, they can have the marriage solemnized in their place of worship, but is not binding. It would be the perfect solution to this dilemma and a very simple one at that.

  • M Shane

    @No. 51 · Robert, NYC If American gays were not so trruely scizoid about be4ing like ma and Pa , and yet being hated by them they would have long ago settled on the French option which you suggest. The Founders of this country were almost to a man atheist and agnostics (ONLY ONE PERSON WENT TO CHURCH EVEN) .
    If intelligence was reigning the day , instead of this “group think” we would have been long ago on the way to a solution
    but as Marx said : Humans are the least deserving of the god who they claim created them.
    In america, secularism, a separation of church and state is the Gold standard. The course people are on, and I don’t count myself, is self destructive ultimately and doomed. Bad logistics.

  • Bill Perdue

    @Chitown Kev: @Robert, NYC: I agree with both of you that a two tiered system of civil unions for us and marriage for everyone else is second class citizenship but I also think that cult bigots will never agree to “attach all the rights associated with marriage to civil unions, open civil unions up to any two people and let the church have the damn word…”. The cults are infested with bigots and they make big bucks off marriage.

    I think that fighting for civil unions is the same as the fight for SSM marriage equality to the bigots. They won’t go for civil unions, SSM or civil partnerships on the English model. They’re having none of it and they’ll continue to attack every advance we make, no matter what we call it.

    In that sense Robert is right, SSM is the gold standard and if it’s the world standard as well we might as well fight under that flag as any other. And I say that as someone who thinks marriage as an institution is profoundly flawed and will sooner or later have to be replaced. But for now it’s what our people want.

    I agree with both of you that that the cults should be excluded from civil partnering arrangements no matter what they’re called. In fact they should be punished if they interfere in any civil matter and taxed till they drop. And then taxed some more. Under French law only marriage ceremonies held before secular officials are legally valid and there are punishments when cult clerics do violate the law.

    Most cult figures oppose the adoption of French and European based marriage laws here although a tiny few like gay episcopal bishop Gene Robinson are on our side. But Robinson, like most cult liberals pray to ‘whom it may concern’. The rest don’t –
    they take their superstitious delusions very seriously.

  • robert

    Hi Bill, thanks. I totally agree and support your previous statements on this post wholeheartedly. I too am a socialist, would that the Democratic party were but its not, unfortunately.

    What galls me about the debate over marriage equality is that religious cults are allowed to introduce referenda on state ballots to overturn laws legislating for marriage equality that I regard as a basic civil right. If we all recall, the civil rights movement and the resulting legislation was not determined by referenda but by the Supreme Court. I just don’t understand why these religious intruders are tolerated.

    That said, since these cults are interfering in the political process, I see no reason why they should be allowed to retain federal tax exemptions as well as reduce utility rates. I’m not sure of the genesis of that but I think its nothing more than elitism and special privilege. Just exactly what religious cults do for society is debatable. Hardly any of them take care of the poor or fight for universal health care and virtually all of them with one or two exceptions support hate legislation. I just don’t understand the psyche of the American electorate, why they tolerate such outrageous intrusions by these cults in a society that claims there is separation of church and state. I’m not so convinced that there is given the interference and free reign they enjoy in the political arena and what is more puzzling is the collective apathy by progressives to make any noise about it. I feel as if we’re done for no matter which way we turn. I am under no delusion that we’ll get anywhere with this administration, the economic crisis notwithstanding, because the political will just doesn’t seem to be there. The party of hate and obstruction doesn’t want change of any kind and the change that Obama pretends to want doesn’t seem to be materializing. As we’ve seen recently, repeal of DADT and DOMA are on the back burner, indefinitely and I doubt that DOMA will ever be repealed. Why do we tolerate this?

  • TWD -

    Civil unions will NEVER reach that status, they are passé and have been abandoned in seven countries thus far, e.g. Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Canada and South Africa. Denmark will be next and in the states of Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire.

  • M Shane

    I@ 55 · TWD In France the Hets are asking for the Civil Union option. Things are no different than the intent and exactitiude wth which they are written.
    This country was Founded by Athiests who would have flipped in their graves to see the current religious war going on over something which should be secular.

    All we have is what appear to be prudish Religious gays fighting a religious war on a secular battlefield.

    This country is in need of major changes of all kinds, primarily the buy off of the Congress and the stupid assumptions made by the public about how things are done.

    Back to my original point, You don’t get something ” right” done the wrong way. You need to get rid of the buying off of cCongress, an illegal army; a corporate structure that runs everything, and their religious toadies. Then you vcan do anything right. Till then your just spinning your wheels.

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