We’re tired. Tired of the Obama administration backpedaling on promises it made to the gay community. Tired of pointing out the many ways the president is failing on equal rights. Tired of showing how Barack is not our buddy when we need him the most. After reneging on the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, with President Obama passing on the opportunity to even halt current investigations while he pretends to get Congress to act, his administration now finds itself being confronted with another very accurate reality: Barack Obama is an advocate of separate but equal policies.
You folks are smart people. We don’t need to explain what these words — exchanged between ABC News’ Jake Tapper (who’s been hounding the administration on gay issues) and Press Secretary Robert Gibbs — mean. From yesterday’s presser:
JAKE TAPPER: Okay. And the second question on a completely different topic — the President opposes same-sex marriage, but he supports giving same-sex couples the same rights as married people.
ROBERT GIBBS: And benefits.
JAKE TAPPER: Same rights and benefits. What’s your response to critics of his policy who say this is exactly separate but equal?
ROBERT GIBBS: Well, I would point you to the any number of times that he was asked this during the campaign and addressed it.
JAKE TAPPER: I don’t think he was ever asked is this separate but equal.
ROBERT GIBBS: No. In fact, it was asked on multiple occasions, and I can pull you something on that. It’s the President’s belief — he strongly supports civil unions, and supports ensuring that they have access to the rights and benefits, such as hospital visitation and things like that, that are enjoyed by others.
johnvisser
Q. What’s the difference between Bush and Obama on civil rights?
A. Bush didn’t lie about his bigotry.
Dave
I am willing to give him more time, but he does seem like a coward.
johnvisser
Coward? Rather more like he was not afraid to use the LGBT community to his advantage during the campaign and then dumping us once he got what he wanted. That shows guts, but we are now beginning to see the reality of the empty promises. As the economy suffers, inflation and interest rates will go up and he’ll find himself in a tough spot come 2012 as the country will be mad becuase they’re paying $5 for a gallon of milk. And when he needs us most, we will have learned our lesson and won’t be campaigning for him – we will calling him out on broken promises.
Of course I hope this goes the other way, but I have very little HOPE.
glen
Is it true that Americans have only two choices for President? That must involve a lot of “hold my nose and vote for…” voting.
Lee
“I can pull you something on that.”….like one of our slick campaign brochures with the rainbow version of the Obama O logo on it.
But it’ll take a while to find one that doesn’t have gay semen on it.
andy
He is just a POLITICIAN! He just happens to have parents of different skin colors, who couldn’t get married in most states not long before he was born. Why we think he might have sympathy for our plight is really just wishful thinking. He is in the end a politician, a beauty pageant contestant like his friend Carrie Prejean. I’m already over the guy.
Alex
Can you believe this guy? I mean, JFK pushed hard for civil rights as soon as he got into office, without any prodding from the black community.
Oh wait, no he didn’t. I don’t know, if blogs had existed back then, if the civil rights movement would have gotten off the ground. But I know there would have been no bus boycott if Rosa Parks had just Twittered about being forced to move. And I doubt an online petition to Washington would have been as effective, even if Dr. King had placed his I Have a Dream speech on YouTube. The analogy to the civil rights struggle is yours, but you have to realize that no group has ever been given their civil rights. They had to take it.
I worked hard to get Obama elected, but I didn’t think for a minute he’d move on this on his own. I had hoped the momentum from his victory would move us to get off our asses. We bitch and we moan and we make very persuasive and well reasoned arguments. But in the end, we aren’t demanding our equal rights, and until we do, we’ll never get them.
Dabq
@johnvisser: Now do you really think that ther were that many gay votes in this country to swing an election or put anyone in office? And, what about the 40%, which I assume is all the posters here, who voted for McCain?
Obama will never do anything right for the posters here, it is just as good bashing object from the same folks who gave Bush a pass.
Anthony
You’re sooooooo right!!!!
Everyone vote for Sarah Palin in 2012 because we deserve better. We can trust her…she speaks to God.
Chitown Kev
@Alex:
Oh, yes JFK DID get prodding from the black community and from MLK, Jr. specifically.
http://allotherpersons.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/why-do-blacks-vote-for-democrats-mlk-jfk-and-lbj/
In October of 1960, less then three weeks before the presidential election, Martin Luther King Jr., already recognized as Black America’s most prominent civil rights leader, had been arrested in Georgia on a traffic technicality: he was still using his Alabama license, although by then he had lived in Georgia for three months.
A swift series of moves by the state’s segregationist power structure resulted in King being sentenced to four months of hard labor on a Georgia chain gang. He was quickly spirited away to the state’s maximum security prison, and many of his supporters, fearing for his life, urgently called both the Nixon and Kennedy camps for help.
Nixon, about to campaign in South Carolina in hopes of capturing the sate’s normally solid Democratic vote, took no action. Kennedy took swift action. He made a brief telephone call to a frantic Coretta Scott King, speaking in soothing generalities and telling her, “If there’s anything I can do to help, please feel free to call on me.”
It’s likely that Kennedy did not at that moment realize the political implications of that call. Ever the pragmatist, he had resisted the pleas of several aides throughout the campaign that he take bolder public stands on civil rights issues. The telephone call came because one aide caught him late at night after a hard day of campaigning and staff meetings as he was about to turn in. The aide, Harris Wofford, pitched it as just a call to calm King’s fearful spouse. Kennedy replied, “What the hell. That’s a decent thing to do. Why not? Get her on the phone.”
King was soon released, unharmed, due to a groundswell of pressure directed by blacks and whites in numerous quarters toward Georgia officials (Robert F. Kennedy himself, who was managing his brother’s campaign called the judge who sentenced King to prison). At the time, the white media paid little attention to the call, which suited the Kennedys fine. But it likely transformed the black vote. King’s father, Martin Luther King Sr., a dominating, fire-and-brimstone preacher with wide influence throughout Black America, had, like many black Southerners, always been a Republican and until that moment had said he couldn’t vote for Kennedy because he was a Catholic.
(But) the day his son was released from prison, the elder King thundered from the pulpit of his famed Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta: “I had expected to vote against Senator Kennedy because of his religion. But now he can be my president, Catholic or whatever he is… He has the moral courage to stand up for what he knows is right. I’ve got all my votes and I’ve got a suitcase, and I’m going to take them up there and dump them in his lap.”
From that moment on, JFK’s bond with blacks, despite his initial tepid support for the movement, was sealed. His assassination, less than six months after proposing what became the Civil Rights Act of 1964, cemented his place of honor among blacks: for years afterward, inexpensive commemorative plates with his likeness were ubiquitous in the homes of blacks across the country. And when his successor, Lyndon Baines Johnson, took up the civil rights cause and pushed both the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act through Congress, black voters moved in massive numbers to the Democratic party.
Jerrold
@glen: Yep, that’s how most of us feel too. There is a third and fourth and sometimes fifth candidate, but because it is almost impossible for them to win, voting for them is viewed as not voting at all. (They never even get enough for their party to get funding in the next election.)
Anthony in Nashville
Okay, Obama has proven time and again that The Gays are not his main priority.
Rather than keep posting these articles, why not offer some solutions as to what can be done to put more pressure on him? As I believe others have said, no politican takes action because it’s the “right thing.” Financial or social/political presure is generally behind any decision they make.
It’s easier to complain than to be proactive about changing the situation.
OC Mike
Are we dellusional or are we lazy? Do we really believe that we are going to be handed our rights? Has any oppressed community ever simply been handed our rights? I have news, colorful floats, marching members of PFLAG, and dance music moving down a local boulevard is not a protest–it is a parade. We have had just a few protests that we took to the streets, and mostly streets that already approved of our cause. Why would we suspect that a sitting president (with an enviable approval rating just as he is right now in this moment) would suddenly shift from a position he held throughout his campaign without any prodding? And, from whom would we expect that prodding to come? Sorry brothers and sisters, some bitching and tissy fits won’t win us this one. We all need to get in touch with our inner Larry Kramers and not wait for something to happen, but make something happen. My gosh, we’re even getting bitch slapped by a vapid Beauty Queen runner-up.
Chitown Kev provides an excellent history above,and it is an accurate one.
OC Mike
ooops “has any oppressed community ever simply been handed their rights?”
johnvisser
@DABQ: What I am saying is that in 3 years, the a fair number of moderates will be shifting back to the smaller government and less taxes position of the GOP. They will have grown tired of massive spending and higher cost of living becuase of inflation. It is the moderates who decide elections and most of them do not care about civil rights – they care about their pocket book. When this shift begins, Obama will need to count on all the factions which make up the democratic base. What I am saying (asking really) is will the LGBT community just knee-jerk support the democratic candidate (presumably Obama) or will we demand action BEFORE offering our support? Basically, the campaign year of 2012 will be our next real opportunity to push for action. ALEX’s post above, spells out our dilema very clearly, blogging/calling the white house/writing letters/etc. are all actions which get little attention. Support for a “March on Washington” has not materialized. The American public has beome numb to same-sex marriage news as it is so common place. Even DADT is being ignored even with overwhelming support from MSM, poll results and politicians. It won’t be until we en masse join together and press hard for change that anything will be done.
Lee
They may now have been replaced by Obama images, but an article about this phenomenon not that many years back observed that you could find few black homes in America with occupants above a certain age that did not have some kind of photo, etc., of JFK.
And articles combining images of JFK, RFK, and King were very common.
On a bookcase shelf sit my own rare Jack & Jackie salt & pepper shakers.
Cleaning out a storeroom the other day, I came across my CLINTON-GORE window sign. I have photos taken of a large, ecstatic crowd at the intersection of Castro & 18th the night they won. The electric bus wires overhead draped with toilet paper. A George Bush pere coffin is burning on the sidewalk. 17 years later, I can still hear from a magical somewhere giant speakers saturating the air with “Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead.”
I open a desk drawer and there’s a GAYS FOR KERRY button.
A roll of stickers with the Obama rainbow “O” mocks me from the top of my dresser.
The Lesbian Mafia
“things like that, that are enjoyed by others”.
We knew he wasn’t going to be what he said he was going to be on any front, particularly LGBT. That is why we did not support him. He’s always been as disingenuous as can be. Brand Barack, his homophobic bigotry, and his sexism was never appealing to us. Some of us have been here before with Clinton, we don’t need to be strung along for 4 years again. It’s called “experience” but people that continue blind idol worship for Brand Barack do not think experience matters, they think everything is owed to them even if you didn’t earn it, like it was for Barack. They already know everything there is to know about everything and they are smarter than everyone else. So … let them learn for themselves.
In the meantime we actively support accurate and responsible criticism of Brand Barack. We do not support empty-headed Hollywood-trash because they do not represent America.
90% of Americans oppose Bail Outs and the ‘War ON Terra’, because most Americans aren’t rich for being sell-outs.
Michael W.
@Chitown Kev: I think Anthony’s point was that for all the comparisons to the African-American Civil Rights Movement, the gay community is nowhere near as effective in its tactics of demanding change. We’re talking about marching on Washington and refusing to use public services vs. complaining on blog sites.
There really isn’t a comparison at all, that’s why blacks resent white gays for using the analogy so often. It’s not because they hate us so much, they feel like we haven’t done anything to earn it (and rightfully so).
johnvisser
@Jerrold and @Glen: If we always (80-90% of us) automatically give our support/vote to the Democrats then the Democrats will always assume they can count on our vote because what other choice to we have, right? But I say we do have a choice – two choices actually. 1) The LGBT community can put it’s support behind a third party candidate. It’s obvious a third party candidate won’t win, but the question is can a democrat win without one segment of it’s base? In a close election, 2% can make a big difference. 2) The LGBT community can vote for the GOP, thereby doubling the effect of not voting for the Democrat. What do we lose by voting GOP? Nothing as neither party (on the federal level) has done anyhting for us anyway. But atleast the Democrats will be on notice that we are tired of campaign rhetoric.
atdleft
@OC Mike: Yep. We can’t bitch and moan and complain any longer. We need to take action! Why are we just complaining about President Obama when we should be flooding his inbox and phone line?
Chitown Kev
@johnvisser:
That’s my point.
Black American support for the Democratic Party was never unconditional. Even in 1960, 32% of black Americans voted Republican. The bulk of that black Democrat vote in 1960 was from the North.
The Lesbian Mafia
Yes, putting our vote behind a third party is the only way to get their attention. When LGBT refuse to be lied to and vote Democrat or Republican is when they will have to “earn” our votes rather than assume that saying the word “gay” is enough to make a deseprate community automatically rally behind a brand like Barack’s. They know how easy it is to appeal to a desperate community with images and slogans. The number of people voting third party is growing every election, soon they will be able to get funding if we educate ourselves and put our votes behind third party candidates. That is the most effective thing LGBT can do besides marches, is educate the community. Many black activists like Professor Griff, KRS1, and many others did not support Barack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKRWNS08is
CHIP
I don’t care if I’m flamed for holding a grudge or whatever. Simply put, Clinton had a proven record and relationship with the lgbt community, Obama did not. If we had thrown our support behind Clinton, a lot more would have been done about our rights on the federal level. Hillary has more stones than our current President will ever have. (Take that whichever way you want)
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Michael W.:
“that’s why blacks resent white gays for using the analogy so often. It’s not because they hate us so much, they feel like we haven’t done anything to earn it (and rightfully so).” Uh, make that SOME blacks.
Black civil rights icon and NAACP Chair Julian Bond:
“For some people, comparisons between the African-American civil rights movement, the movement for gay and lesbians rights seems to diminish the long black historical struggle with its suffering, sacrifices, and endless toil. However people of color ought to be flattered that our movement has provided so much inspiration for others. That our movement has been so widely imitated. That our tactics, our methods, our heroes, our heroines, and even our songs have been appropriated or served as models for others.
Many gays and lesbians worked side-by-side with me in the 1960s civil rights movement. Am I now to tell them, Thanks for risking life and limb helping me win my rights, but they’re excluded because of a condition of their birth, that they can’t share now in the victories they helped me to win, that having accepted and embraced them as partners in a common struggle I can now turn my back on them, deny them the rights they helped me win, the rights I enjoy because of them? Not a chance. No.”
“Would you ask me how I’d dare to compare the civil rights struggle with the struggle for lesbian and gay rights? I can compare, and I do compare them. I know what it means to be called a nigger. I know what it means to be called a faggot. And I can sum up the difference in one word: none.” – DC Gay Activists Alliance President Mel Boozer to the 1980 Democratic National Convention
“Today, blacks are no longer the litmus paper or the barometer of social change. Blacks are in every segment of society and there are laws that help to protect them from racial discrimination. The new “niggers” are gays. No person who hopes to get politically elected, even in the deep South…would dare stand in the school door to keep blacks out. Nobody would dare openly and publicly argue that blacks should not have the right to public accommodations. Nobody would dare to say any number of things about blacks that they are perfectly prepared to say about gay people. It is in that sense that gay people are the new barometer for social change. Indeed, if you want to know whether today people believe in democracy if you want to know whether they are true democrats, if you want to know whether they are human rights activists, the question to ask is, ‘What about gay people?’ Because that is now the litmus paper by which this democracy is to be judged. The barometer for social change is measured by selecting the group that is most mistreated. To determine where society is with respect to change, one does not ask, ‘What do you think about the education of children’? Nor does one ask, ‘Do you believe the aged should have Social Security.” The question of social change should be framed with the most vulnerable group in mind: gay people.” – Gay black civil rights icon, mentor to Martin Luther King, Jr., and organizer of the 1963 Great March on Washington Bayard Rustin to the Philadelphia chapter of Black & White Men Together, 1986
“Angela Bronner, AOL Black Voices, to Julian Bond:
Why did you not attend the funeral of Coretta Scott King?
BOND: I knew her attitude toward gay and lesbian rights. And I just couldn’t imagine that she’d want to be in that church with a minister who was a raving homophobe. Although I have a great deal of respect and affection for her, I thought that I could show a lot more by staying away.”
Timmeeeyyy
Ross Douthat at the NYT calls it in his op-ed piece “Faking Left.”
“…the Obama administration does seem to have a plausible strategy for turning the “social issues” to liberalism’s advantage. The outline is simple: Engage on abortion, and punt on gay rights.”
Lee
For all his failures, in his last two years as President, Bill Clinton issued gay pride month proclamations. Ya think…..?
And Hillary was the first First Lady to MARCH IN a gay pride parade. Ya think…..?
johnvisser
The cicvil rights movement openly challenged the establishment – perfect example is Roas Parks who defied the law and sat in the front of the bus. Our quandry is that we do not have “physical” seperation. We don’t have seperate water fountains – real objects to focus on. We have abstract laws. How do we challenge a marriage law thru civil disobedience? Go and get married anyway? Do you see the quandry?
But there are ways to exercise civil disobedience: married couples in large numbers can file federal taxes as married, military members can come out of the closet in large numbers (like Lt Dan Choi) bringing attention to DADT, LGBT organizations can stop endorsing do-nothing Democrats, we can protest at democrat’s campaign events in 2010 taking attention off their agenda and putting it on ours. I mean really, why do we support politicians and an establishment that ignores us?
Chitown Kev
@Anthony in Nashville:
Again, that’s my point in posting the King story. There is nothing wrong with the gay community pressuring Obama and the Democratic Party. It’s exactly what happened with African Americans under Kennedy. It’s exactly what the African American community did under Franklin Roosevelt, truthfully.
strumpetwindsock
For some people… the bitchy fountain, I would say.
@Chitown Kev:
Malcolm X called Kennedy out as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO2hn16bi9I
I’m sure some of you know your history better than I do, but my understanding was that Lyndon Johnson actually did a lot more for civil rights than Kennedy did.
Kennedy was inspirational in some ways, but he was also a ham-handed fuck-up on many issues
michael
During the civil rights movement black folks loaded buses to protest in states that even to this day are the worst places for blacks to live. They were beaten, they were arrested. Martin Luther King made speeches that to this day bring people to tears. There were riots, the cause was constantly on the news. The cause was taken seriously and blacks were relentless in their pursuit for equality.
For the first time in years we saw protests in California by gay folks. We saw some of our own standing up, despite criticism by many of our own, and let their voices and faces be shown. But in other states such as Tennessee, Florida, etc. we saw handfuls of people assemble.
Why is this that we are so complacent? Why do our own kind chastise us for our willingness to take action, speak out and call Obama out on his false promises and hold him accountable? I have several theories. Blacks had their families supporting each other. We do not. So many gays are just doing an extension of what they have been doing since birth. Hiding, keeping their mouths shut. Trying to stay unnoticed and under the radar screen.
All to get the love and approval of their parents and families. But of course they are not getting anything. Sometimes I wonder if gay folks stood up to their own families first, told them until you love me for who I am and stop saying I love you but I disagree with your “lifestyle”, if gay couples stopped going their seperate ways on holidays because their partners are unwelcome or not allowed to spend the night under their families roofs would this change things? Until we stand up for ourselves against those who often time planted the seed of self hatred in us how will we be able to stand up to those who don’t even matter as much? Collectively we are children. Either we act like whimps or like pissed off adolescents. We take shit from everyone and we don’t fight back and the few who do embarrass the
rest. There are those who blame our lack of acceptance on the fact that we are to flamboyant, that we have parades with loud rainbow flags and we dress and act to gay. We demonize our trans brothers & sisters and act ashamed of them. Until we take responsibility for our own self love and respect we will never get it from anyone else. We have to stop being victims of lying politicians and our families and others. We will never be taken seriously until we do. Our power lives within us, not in some lying president. We must take our power and use it.
Chitown Kev
@johnvisser:
Exactly. But now let’s not be too swift to praise Bill Clinton now. He signed DADT (as a compromise) and DOMA. And B. Clinton has steered Dem candidates away from our issues (Dean, Kerry).
atdleft
@CHIP: Yes, she does have a longer track record with our community. However, Hillary’s not President now… Barack is. As much as I supported her during the primary season, I learned to move on with my life just as she did once the primary ended. I suggest you do the same.
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: Thank you for posting that. We need to end the “black vs. gay” crap once and for all. We have great allies in legendary civil rights groups like NAACP. Maybe if we work with them more often and stop acting like our movement has to be so damn lily white, we can be more successful in building bridges with other minority communities.
Chitown Kev
@strumpetwindsock:
Well, both Kennedys prepared the ground and the culture for what LBJ eventually did. And remember , Kennedy was not able to finish his first term.
johnvisser
@Michael: Exactly. In a nut shell, we are collectively apathetic and afraid at the same time.
I live by the idea that it is not me who has the problem – rather it is others who have a problem with me – I NEVER hide my sexual orientation and when I see that someone has a problem with it, I call them out on it.
Stop being ashamed of yourself and get some damn backbone.
Michael W.
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: The problem with Julian Bond’s statement is that our “inspiration” only extends to the edge of the piece of paper it’s written on. You’d be a fool to think we’ve gone to the lengths that black Americans did during the 50’s and 60’s.
Julian Bond was trying to repair the relationship with blacks and gays but when it really comes down to it, even he would have to admit that our so-called movement pales in comparison. It’s not really even a movement so much as “I voted and donated money to your campaign so please, please give me what I want.”
Faeelin
This discussion seems kind of silly. Hearing Obama make platitudes about marriage is irrelevent. What people should be asking is, “Given your support for equal rights for gay and lesbian couples, at what point will you introduce legislation repealing the portion of DOMA that denies federal recognition of state marriages and civil unions?”
johnvisser
@CHITOWN KEV: I’ve been trying to push this idea (of not supporting do-nothing-Democrats), but I get very little response. How do I get people to listen to the third choice of not supporting do-nothing Dems/only supporting full equality candidates?
I’m frustrated and want to stand-up, but how?
Alex
@johnvisser:
Yes, people hate a big enlargement of government spending during hard economic times. That’s why FDR was barely able to eek out four Presidential election victories.
@The Lesbian Mafia: “…his sexism…” I love fictional characters as much as the next guy, especially those who have fun quirks, like talking about themselves in the third person. I also know you’re only here to talk about your demo tape. But seriously, can you at least try to maintain a veneer of credibility. See Ledbetter, Lilly.
@johnvisser: That’s an incredibly myopic view. Democrats have done nothing? If you care about the lesbians in our community (not to mention our mothers, sisters, daughters, etc.), then passing the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay act is hugely important (this also applies to racial minorities). So is the restoration of stem-cell research if you or someone you care about has any of a number of diseases that may be cured by stem cells. Gay rights matter deeply to me, and Obama’s inaction is very frustrating. But those aren’t the only issues.
The Lesbian Mafia
KRS1 )who did NOT support Barack Obama)
“We Africans in America, we were trying to get free. We couldn’t get free on our own cause our own people were betraying us” …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUU7uaWtNkM
Our own community will betray us. Strategists predict what we will do even before we know what we will do.
We need to make nice with third party candidates and stop mindlessly throwing our full support behind the lie of the Democratic party. Education is the key. And our own community will persecute us. So be it.
Chitown Kev
@johnvisser:
For starters, our parades still need to be…well parades, but this year the focuse of our Pride Parades needs to be about civil equality…
johnvisser
@ALEX: But Obama HAS done something with the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act and he HAS done something for Stem-Cell Research. He HAS NOT, however, done a damn thing for the rights of LGBTs. And by the way, I do support women rights and stem-cell research – they are very important to me as well.
Topher
I think it would be an interesting question, if it could ever be asked. But it sure seems like Obama is comfortable with perpetrating the same civil injustices on gays and lesbians that was done to blacks. Maybe this is the difference between him being an African-American and him being an “african-american”.
jamesjames
@Alex: Wow you Obots really are pathetic aren’t you? You’re using Ledbetters as an example for “Sweetie” Oblahblah? LMAO. You’re a riot. Politically unsophisticated immature Obots are so funny because they hand you thier stupidity and ignorance.
Here are the facts silly simpleton … I do not support Barky.
I will continue to voice the UN-support of the bigot homophobic sexist, on every blog I have time to during my morning coffee breaks at work.
Go listen to some Lily Allen, isn’t that what Obots like to do?
Because Barky is the biggest celebrity in the woooooooorld!
Michael W.
@Lee: Your attempts to revise history and somehow make Bill Clinton look good on gay rights are pathetic. We wouldn’t be in this mess if it wasn’t for him.
We’re talking about the guy who actually signed DADT and DOMA into law and you excuse his actions because he issued press releases on gay pride parades?
If Obama turns out to be HALF as bad as Bill Clinton we’d still be getting off easy. He set gay rights back 30 years with just one term. He actually CAMPAIGNED for DOMA!
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
I know. I’m not denying his accomplishments, nor that he was an inspiration (which sometimes does count as much as actual accomplishments).
But both of them had some serious flaws. Their rabid anti-communism was a major problem – for all the praise he gets for handling the missile crisis he was partially responsible for it. I know he did his damndest to turn our country into a nuclear military base. When our PM refused Kennedy tried hard to drive him out of office.
Also, their dogged pursuit of organized crime was a bit like biting the hand that feeds you, especially since they helped JFK get elected in the first place. It may have been the moral thing to do, but it was not a politically intelligent act.
I just think Kennedy gets a lot of glory (some of it deserved) while some progressive and radical acts by other leaders -Eisenhower in particular – are overshadowed.
Chitown Kev
@The Lesbian Mafia:
That’s why Gavin Newsome handed out those marriage licenses. He was going to lose to the Green Party candidate if he didnt do that.
johnvisser
@CHITOWN KEV: okay, agreed, but how to we make that change?
Chitown Kev
@strumpetwindsock:
Don’t forget about Truman (a really applicable case in light of DADT). FDR may have done it but…it was 1940!
Mark Meinke
It’s here we go again time. Clinton redux.
jamesjames
@The Lesbian Mafia: Agreed. Many gay men do not care much to notice sexism as many of us are guilty of indulging in it ourselves. The sooner we notice that the oppression and hatred of women is directly linked to gay oppression the stronger we will be as a community. More heterosexual women do not like homophobia and are much less hostile towards us than straight males are. Suburban housewives, our fag hag girlfriends, and women in general are much less homophobic. After all, you don’t see women going out there and gay bashing us in the streets. Lord knows many of us could get our asses kicked by a woman that worked out LOL. Sometime’s our allies are not so obvious. We need to get more skilled in figuring out who they are because empty promises aren’t going to cut it anymore. By the way, I send your URL around and post it on other blogs as well as here too. Carry on, appreciate your comments.
Alex
@johnvisser: Yes, and if the gays had somehow swung the election to McCain, none of those things would have happened.
@jamesjames: That’s a cool trick, how you type all those words without making any arguments. You even use the word “facts” without presenting any. You should work for Fox News. Seriously though, instead of using clever(?) put-downs, I’d love to hear you make a reasoned argument about why Obama is a lost cause, and what you, as someone who is interested in rights for LGBT Americans and not just stroking your ego with schoolyard taunts, is willing to do. I’m not familiar with the work of Lily Allen, but she does seem to produce quite a few more hits on Google than you. Jealous?
Also, posting under different names is less tricky when you use the same website URL.
Chitown Kev
@Mark Meinke:
It’s Clinton’s strategery, yes. I would should make especially sure to note that.
Bruno
Obama supported marriage equality back in the mid-90’s, and changed his tune to suit his political needs. I believe nothing ideologically changed with him, even if he can hide behind the idea that *personally* he believes that “traditional” marriage is paramount. It’s quite obvious by his stance against DOMA and Prop 8 that he’d be fine with same-sex couple having a civil right to marry.
But that’s not important enough for him to risk a conservative backlash against him. Somehow there would be one when all those conservative people already think he was born in Kenya and wants our country to be owned by Venezuela.
He just doesn’t want to deal with us.
Therefore, we shouldn’t deal with him at the polls in 2012. In fact, I’m not dealing with any Democrat at the polls in 2010 either…not until they put full marriage equality in their platform, and in good faith show they want to repeal DADT, and quickly.
Until then, let’s show Obama our votes matter.
paul
@johnvisser: I just read Michael’s post and where is it that he does not show “backbone”. I think he was merely trying to point out why we are so complacent and do not stand up for ourselves. Maybe you should consider reading something through completely before you shoot your mouth off. You actually sound defensive so maybe he just hit you where you live.
johnvisser
@ALEX: So how else to you suggest we apply pressure on our “friends”?
headbang8
Is Obama, on a personal level, homophobic?
johnvisser
@ALEX: And I’m not talking about the past (it’s done), I’m talking about 2012.
Chitown Kev
@headbang8:
No.
But a lot of his voters are. (ethnic minorities, Reagan Democrats, some Dixiecrats, union workers, etc…
jamesjames
@Alex: Alexus, I would love to join you in your fantasy role play game that you’re in Dynasty. I really want to be Joan Collins though. You get to be the big boned ugly blond amazon.
I know The Lesbian Mafia, I’m a long time fan and ended up on here because of her posting Queerty’s blogs. Nancy Drew you are not, Obot.
johnvisser
@PAUL: Dear Paul – I think you need to read my comment to Alex again – I was wholeheartedly agreeing with him. My last sentence (about backbone) was directed at the larger LGBT community, not Michael. Maybe I should have been more clear.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@Michael W.:
I’m sorry if I misunderstood your larger point, but I still disagree that “you haven’t fought for your rights as hard as we have” is what motivates the majority of those blacks who have a hissy fit when the comparison is made. Far from mentioning Selma, they always play the Slavery Card as a woman screeched recently on Tyra. The fact that it’s unlikely she was at Selma, and few others making the same argument, and none of them were slaves, is beside their point of fighting to keep their victim crown. Fortunately, we have many straight black allies who see above that.
But I TOTALLY agree that we SHOULD be employing many of the tactics that the black civil rights movement did. But NOT simply the marches which did little themselves to advance black civil rights. And they post Prop 8 demos were self-deluding, self-righteous circle jerks that accomplished nothing besides making the participants feel good.
There are only TWO things which could shake Obama and passive Dems into action…our own…and by that I mean black lunch counter sit in/ACT UP type action…nonviolent civil disobedience that will disrupt federal business as usual and demonstrate to the public how serious our rights are.
God didn’t speak to JFK’s heart; poltical advisors and the FBI spoke to his political common sense. The chaos in the South, shown every night on the news, forced his hand.
Chain yourselves to the White House gates. “Zap” [interrupt, confront, embarrass, shout down] Obama everywhere he goes. Zap Michelle. Zap Pelosi. Zap Reid. It’s fairly easy to get to the latter two’s offices. Sit in them, their doorways, and refuse to move.
Tactic 2, and for this you don’t need to even leave your home, even get dressed, let alone get arrested. Actually, this was tried, led by eventual Clinton gay appointee and now Obama’s Export-Import Bank head Fred Hochberg, in 1993 when Clinton’s effort to end the ban turned into DADT. But it fizzled on the launch pad: reduce the flow of the mother’s milk of politics. I’d bet gays gave more money to Dems in the last election than ever before. I certainly did.
And because of that, every couple of days I’m still getting a request for more money through “[email protected]” from “Organizing for America” with the O logo at the top.
The one yesterday wanted me to contribute $35 a month because “President Obama himself said it best on election night, didn’t he? ‘This victory alone is not the change we seek. It is only the chance for us to make that change’. Now President Obama is working hard to make the real changes this country needs — but he can’t do it alone.”
So do what I did. Write them back and tell them they’re not getting another dime until he uses the Constitutional power he has as Commander-in-Chief to stop discharges until Congress repeals DADT. Until he, as promised, “throws the full weight of [his] administration behind” that repeal, and DOMA repeal, and ENDA and hate crimes [“urging” on paper doesn’t qualify].
And that you won’t give anything for the 2010 midterms either. Of course, that means risking losing Dem control in Congress, and we all certainly care about many non-LGBT issues that such a donation boycott could hurt….but we have to stop enabling our own inequality sometime…and believe me if enough of us convinced them we meant it, if their finance peeps reported the messages and a statistically demonstrable drop in donations from where they’d come before [imagine David Geffen refusing to take Obama’s calls] Obama would be holding a “This is what I want to happen for LGBT equality” within 24 hours, with Pelosi and Reid by his side.
Choose your method or choose to remain second class citizens until you die.
Michael W.
@Mark Meinke: Clinton redux? Not hardly.
Barack Obama will be Clinton redux when he puts his signature on harmful legislation that shoves us backward in time. There is no comparison between the two at this point. He hasn’t done anything to hurt us.
When Obama starts doing shit like signing the Federal Marriage Amendment, then we can call him the second coming of Clinton.
Dabq
@Anthony in Nashville: Kudos’ Anthony for the excellent reply, its the same old drivel, screeching and yelling about what he hasn’t done, and, none of those loud shrill voices offer any ideas of how to get glbt issues on the table at the WH. It seems as though these spoiled children just can’t figure out what to do, other than whine and complain instead of brainstorming some real ideas other than singing the same old tired song about blacks and equality and then calling them names and racial slurs in the next verse.
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: So ture Kev, he has a whole lot of groups up in arms and wanting things taken care of since they ‘supported’ him, and, mroe than a few are homophobes.
Chitown Kev
@Dabq:
First, we need to hold our gay organizations responsible. They are really supposed to be the ones that are “fierce advocates” for us. Some of them are (Lambda Legal is GREAT) some of them seem not to be.
johnvisser
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: EXACTLY – Very well said. I like the point you make about “enabling” the Dems to do nothing. I’m definitely on your side. Now if we can get others to see the eror of our ways WILL have political power.
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
Not directed at you, DABQ.
Alex
@johnvisser: That’s a really good question, and something I’d like to talk about. There are many ways to achieve political change. One of them is lobbying thorugh groups like HRC. Many people (myself included) don’t like HRC because they feel HRC is too close to the politicians who seem to be selling us out, and because HRC totally sold out Trans people, and that’s not the kind of movement we want to have. Michael makes some good points about civil disobedience, though I still think his idea of zapping is too focused on our political leaders.
I think we need to start organizing groups like SNCC and SCLC to do grassroots community organizing. This involves talking to people both within our community and outside of it. This involves direct action, such as demonstrations, boycotts, and marches. This involves making a moral case to the American people that the discrimination against us is wrong, and that it us urgent. I’ve been thinking a lot about how to do this, and I’d love to hear from people who want to do something about it. As for the whiners, I’m done with them. They can whine all they want, I’m getting my equality.
johnvisser
@DABQ: Some of us are suggesting ways to get the White House and Congress to listen. [email protected] offers some very valid ways to get things done. And we both say we should stop supporting them until they prove themselves thru action, not just rhetoric. Not supporting the Dems is no worse than supporting GOPs – either way, we get nothing -so let’s stop “enabling” the Dems to do nothing.
jamesjames
@Alex: The HRC is on a secret mission with Barack. Shhhh … you can’t know what it’s about. It involves your civil right and only Joe Solomenese is allowed to know the secrets.
Gay community needs to stop giving money to wastes time and money like HRC and NO on 8 because who funnel millions of dollars in contribution money before knowing what they are supporting. They are self serving and selective and push their own Democrat Hollywood agend instead gay civil rights.
kademonster
Im quite sick of people who support Obama getting angry at those who DO NOT support him. U r getting a very Bush regime mentality. I hated Bush, you couldn’t have paid me to vote for McCain, and I didn’t like Obama -not out of racial motivations as it seems to always be said- but because he was trying to come off as super liberal to win over different groups to ensure their vote, which was brilliant and he overwhelmingly succeeded, but i knew based on past records and through his ambiguity that mr. obama was simply a moderate liberal. he was going to do nothing for us, and we should hav known it. i’m not any more anygry or annoyed with him than i was when he first started running. he proved me right. and if in the next 3 yrs he does something for us, i may bite my tongue, but none of u Obama supporters should count on it too much. Face it, it’s America. There is NO SUCH THING as your dream candidate. They get more money to fuck over minorities.
Lee
@Michael W.:
Please don’t try to put words…or anything else…in my mouth. I never said that the good things Clinton did for gays [and there were several and Obama has yet to surpass them…even most of his gay appointments are Clinton recycles] made up for the bad things he did.
And forgive me for correcting your hysterical, ludicrous claim that he set gay rights back 30 years.
1. DADT. Newsflash – Gays were being kicked out of the military before Clinton was born. While the end result of DADT – gays getting kicked out simply for being gay – remains the same, some minor improvements accompanied it, if only in rhetoric. The dishonesty sweepstakes are being won by many of those who condemn Clinton for not trying to override Congress’ creation of DADT with an executive order but defend Obama for not issuing one now.
2. DOMA. Should it be repealed? Yes. But only as the FIRST STEP for changing through other laws what existed BEFORE it was passed, before, again, Clinton was born, as acknowledged by Obama’s campaign advisor and Harvard Constitutional Law prof Lawrence Tribe. Pre-existing legal precedent empowered states to refuse to recognize marriages from other states that they did not want to. Were gays getting ANY federal benefits before DOMA was introduced by showboating homophobes in Congress? No. If it were simply repealed today without any proactive legislation, would they? No. If it was not primarily rhetorical, if it was so powerful, why did 40+ states feel the need to pass their own versions or amend their state constitutions.
3. “Clinton campaigned on DOMA.” Apparently true that some commercials in his name in a few place were briefly run in 1996, and immediately withdrawn upon complaints. [And he’s denied and Kerry has never disputed him about the claim that he told Kerry to oppose marriage equality in 2004]. If, given that federal DOMA actually changed little functionally, his recording a robo call against Prop 8 while Obama issued a paper airplane that was shot down by the use of robo call recordings of his indefensible “God is in the mix” condemnation of marriage equality at Rick Warren’s church doesn’t deserve some credit, then you put the “irrational” in “irrational hatred.”
4. Contradiction: Clinton is bad because he sometimes sacrified even attempting to fight for gay rights [Vetoes of both DADT and DOMA would have been overridden] in order to get parts of his agenda passed that benefitted everyone while Obama is good because even though he’s doing the same thing he really loves us.
andy_d
What we need is a march on Washington to target BOTH the republicans and democrats. I propose the theme “Stop the Lies.”
In the spirit of the theme, I further propose a march on democratic party national headquarters – “Stop lying to us” – and one on the republican national headquarters – “Stop lying about us.”
I can provide computer support (databases, graphics, etc.) and am a fair hand at writing.
If interested, please contact me at:
[email protected]
Alex
@kademonster: I hope you didn’t read my post as being in any way angry (I know you didn’t mention me, but just in case). Though I support Obama, I understand why some might not, and I don’t want that to get in the way of us working together for real change in the rights of LGBT people. I know our differences pale in comparison to our common cause.
@andy_d: You are completely right. In fact, if I were to disagree at all, I’d say that it’s more important to get our messages to democrats, since they are not beholden to the likes of Rush Limbaugh. I’m not sure I love your theme, but I agree that we need a march.
Herbo
I can’t wait for this mutherfucker to be a footnote in history as a one-term Prez and famed bullshit artist who used the internet to raise money.
Obama knows his family’s fortune comes after he leaves office (and all its problems) and starts golf club play dates and speaking engagements. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass.
alejandro
this was one of your most disrespectful titles ever. fuck this shit is getting rediculous. i didnt even read the article cuz i’m tired of queerty’s bullshit.
Chitown Kev
This little detail right here.
“He was quickly spirited away to the state’s maximum security prison, and many of his supporters, fearing for his life, urgently called both the Nixon and Kennedy camps for help.
Nixon, about to campaign in South Carolina in hopes of capturing the sate’s normally solid Democratic vote, took no action. Kennedy took swift action. He made a brief telephone call to a frantic Coretta Scott King, speaking in soothing generalities and telling her, “If there’s anything I can do to help, please feel free to call on me.”
Thinking out loud here.
Think about this detail for a minute.
Up until the Great Depression, African Americans were a solid voting bloc for the Republican Party. FDR’s Administration began making overtures to the African American community (extremely hard hit by the Depression) and the Dems began pealing the AA vote away from the Republicans. Still, in 1940, FDR needed the support of the Southern Democrats as we were preparing to enter WWII. So he did not desegregate the Armed Forces in 1940.
Eisenhower, in his visible enforcement of Brown v. Board using federal troops, had begun to win some African Americans (esp. in the North) back to the Republican Party. I believe that the AA vote was 60-40 Dem at that moment, a strictly reginal (North v. South).
Think of what may have happened if Nixon (Eisenhower’s VP at the time) had called Coretta Scott King and the King family (solid Republicans)before JFK and offered his support.
(Both Kennedy and Nixon were rabid anti-Communists, so that’s a wash.)
Nixon probably would have won the 1960 election.
Moral to the story: WE SHOULD NOT BE UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORTING CANDIDATES THAT CAN ONLY GIVE LIP SERVICE TO OUR ISSUES. PERIOD.
For the record, I sat out the 1996 Presidential elections, in large part because of DOMA.
And really, it’s Obama’s moment in history to reach for and grab. And even Obama himself (“I may be on the wrong side of history.”) has admitted as much.
Michael W.
@Lee: How ironic is it that you’re upset with Barack Obama for not moving quick enough to undo the roadblocks your hero set up for the gay community?
We get essays on how wonderful Bill Clinton was and how he didn’t REALLY do anything that hurt gays, but Barack Obama is a failure because he hasn’t done what Leland expected of him after being in office 100 some odd days. There’s something a little insane about that, no?
Tell me, Leland, why didn’t he veto DADT and DOMA and FORCE the Republicans to conjure up enough votes to override the vetoes? Even if it was a futile effort, it was worth it if he was the fierce advocate for gays you depict him to be. And who knows, they could’ve FAILED. Instead he chose to lay down and just sign them anyway? That’s a weird thing for a president to do. I mean usually the threat of a presidential veto alone peels votes away from legislation as members of his party know that voting for it means they don’t stand with the president, which is a big thing. But ol’ fierce advocate Clinton just gave up and signed it, right? Hmm.
And you have the nerve to bring up Prop 8 and Obama. As I saw it, DOMA was a big campaign issue in 1996 (at least it was meant to be before fierce advocate Clinton got behind it). In fact he signed it a couple of months before the election. Did Clinton utter any words against it? Did he campaign against it and rally his Democratic troops to stop it? I don’t remember reading or hearing anything about that.
jamesjames
Everyone thinks they have the “perfect political strategy” there sure is a lot of political Obot scientists …
ShameOnYou
It was THIS easy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi7DbJqkU2s
jamesjames
@Herbo: I can’t wait for this mutherfucker to be a footnote in history as a one-term Prez and famed bullshit artist who used the internet to raise money.
Obama knows his family’s fortune comes after he leaves office (and all its problems) and starts golf club play dates and speaking engagements. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass.
Could not have possibly said it better myself
jamesjames
@Michael W.: How about when Obama tells his constituency for two years that he is against gay marriage and they go into the voting booth and vote against your civil rights. And let’s say a gay person gets cancer or HIV and they need their partners health insurance but can’t … does it matter then?
Roy Rogers Oldenkamp
@andy: I see your point, but remember, he never said he was pro gay marriage. He is not back pedaling, but he sure isn’t in tenth gear either.
Now, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, he’s going to address soon enough. Lordy, give him a hundred days people! You know as well as I do that he is pro gay marriage, and you are right, ultimately, he is a politician. They can’t look like they’re waffling.
Michael W.
@Lee: How ironic is it that you’re upset with Barack Obama for not moving quick enough to undo the roadblocks your hero set up for the gay community?
We get essays on how wonderful Bill was and how he didn’t REALLY do anything that hurt gays, but Barack is a failure because he hasn’t done what you expected of him after being in office 100 some odd days. There’s something a little insane about that, no?
Tell me, why didn’t he veto DADT and DOMA and FORCE the Republicans to conjure up enough votes to override the vetoes? Even if it was a futile effort, it was worth it if he was the fierce advocate for gays you depict him to be. And who knows, they could’ve FAILED. Instead he chose to lay down and just sign them anyway? That’s a weird thing for a president to do. Usually the threat of a presidential veto alone peels votes away from legislation as members of his party know that voting for it means they stand against the president, which is a big thing. But ol’ fierce advocate Clinton just gave up and signed it, right? Hmm.
And you have the nerve to bring up Prop 8. As I saw it, DOMA was a campaign issue in 1996 (meant to be a big one before fierce advocate Clinton got behind it). In fact he signed it a couple of months before the election. Did Clinton utter any words against it? Did he campaign against it and rally his Democratic troops to stop it? I don’t remember reading or hearing anything about that.
Duane
With all due respect, you get what you deserve. How quickly everyone forgot that it was Obama who, in an attempt to secure the black vote that had not yet embraced him, who embarked on a tour of black churches with the Rev. Donnie Dakin, one of the most influential black pastors in the country who also has very strong anti-homosexual views. You helped elect a man who has never accomplished a things in his career besides, of course, writing two memoirs and being elected to office (always using empty rhetoric and procedural tactics).
Here’s why Obama really doesn’t give two “colon droppings” about gay constituents. 1) If he caters to our agenda, he risks alienating his true core demographic – the black community – where religion is far more paramount than in any other community, including the so-called rural white “redneck” states. 2) He knows full well we are not the formidable voting block on the national stage as we like to think we are. We are roughly 10% of the population, and where we are concentrated enough to form any kind of significant voting block (i.e. urban centres like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, etc) are already fairly solidly in Democratic hands. 3) He knows full well we will generally not vote Republican or simply won’t vote. We are no threat to his political ambitions, so stop expecting him to bow down and kiss his ring.
Obama’s only agenda is that of his own ambition.
wondermann
“We’re tired. Tired of the Obama administration backpedaling on promises it made to the gay community. Tired of pointing out the many ways the president is failing on equal rights. Tired of showing how Barack is not our buddy when we need him the most.”
Well a lot of us are tired of the Bitter Hillary Clinton supporter posts.
This argument is silly. We are not so oppressed that we can’t function. The writer should be realistic, I feel that some of y’all are off in Wonderland when it comes to this issue. These things take time! If you can’t see that, then try harder. These posts are a joke and hurting the quality of this site.
Roy Rogers Oldenkamp
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com: It’s important to note that Julian Bond is not a reverend, he is an intellectual. The religious community has a problem with gay marriage, and many African Americans have co-opted Christianity-oddly, in my estimation, as their polytheistic indigenous religious African beliefs are much more organic and interesting. It’s often hard for Christians to accept gay marriage. A fact. There is bitter homophobia in the African American community, but it shows signs of dissipating.
jamesjames
Barack sure had time to give billions of dollars in Bail Outs to his friends though didn’t he?
Stopping gay people from getting thrown out of the miliary? Well “give him time”.
Barack sure did have time to push a stimulus that no one even bothered to read.
Gay civil rights? “Jesus people I’m getting sick of you bashing Barack. He needs time”!
Barack sure did have time to send 17,000 troops over to Afghanistan and move the war over to there after saying he would end it.
ENDA? “You “gay activists” are just catty bitchy queens. No wonder Barky won’t do nothing for us! It’s because of you always “bitching”.
Bark sure has time for a lot of Bush policy but none for dirty queers.
jamesjames
@wondermann: Get to the back of the bus where you belong! How dare you speak, gay.
Hey, here’s a tip. Go read Huffpo, that old whore needs the readers.
Chitown Kev
@Roy Rogers Oldenkamp:
That has been “established” at Queerty already. This post is not about that. It is about what needs to be done.
Bruno
@jamesjames:
You’re right, let’s just leave it to the experts. Like whoever’s in power at any given time, say, Bush & Cheney, Nixon, Carter…
Geoff
Gotta say it….and I hate to say it, but I’m really disappointed in President Obama on gay issues. I know the guy has a lot on his plate right now, but still.
Lee
@Michael W.:
If you could pull your head out of The Holy Ass for a moment and pay attention:
It’s 2009. Not 1993. Not 1996.
Barack Obama is President. Not Bill Clinton. Not Hillary Clinton. Not Bush. Not McShame. Not Palinolithic. Not Daffy Duck.
It’s not about what others did or didn’t do or could have done or should have done.
It’s about what the current most powerful man in the world isn’t doing.
Such as stopping the bleeding of DADT discharges under the excuse that Dr. Congress has not arrived yet even though it’s entirely in his power as Commander-in-Chief.
Congratulations on changing the subject briefly. But, remarkably, the mainstream media are snapping at his heels now about his It’s Not Gay Time Yet shuck and jive. Try selling them some of your Barackberry Kool Aid.
Dabq
@wondermann: Thank you, this site is like Fox News and most of the posters like Rush’s ditto heads who offer nothing constructive to the debate of gay rights, they think that they are the only ones who want action from the guy on issues, a guy who has not been in office for a hot minute, just as selfish as always with the me, me, me stuff like spoiled little rich kids.
charlie
what
jamesjames
@Dabq: Obot
timncguy
Yes, Obama has always said is is opposed to gay marriage. But, his reasoning behind his position is FLAWED. He said he holds this position because “God is in the mix”. Obama is supposed to be a constitutional scholar. God is NOT ALLOWED to be in the mix of a CIVIL matter. Period. End of story. He needs to come up with a RATIONAL reason for opposing marriage equality.
ONa second note, why is it every time someone suggests the gay community not vote for Obama, or other dems in the next election, the immediate response seems to be…. OK, go ahead, you’ll just get a republican in office who will be worse for you.
Shouldn’t this “republican” that will win the office be just as scary to the straight dems as to the gay ones? Shouldn’t the response instead be … what can the dems DO FOR THE GAY COMMUNITY to ensure we start EARNING your votes so that the straight dems won’t have to put up with the consequences ofthe repug winning? Why do they think the FEAR only works one way, in that the gays should be afraid? Why are people afraid to do something to EARN the votes of the gay community?
fitc
@Dabq: Not everyone who knows Barack is ful of it, is a Republican. Most of the gay community is starting to wake up regardless of party. It has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. Lies, snubs, and broken promises, cross parties. No one cares about party divisions anymore because most of us have figured out that they are all full of shit.
Except for the celebritized sheeple who watch reality shows, most of us with some sort of logic know it has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican anymore. Doesn’t matter what news station you watch because in the end – you got nothing you were promised. Try to keep up.
michael
@Dabq: And what are you offering, besides criticism? Nothing. Your absolutely useless and thats why you have no problem pointing it out in others.
Dover
It was this easy… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi7DbJqkU2s
michael
@Dover: I just watched it and my eyes are watering. What a beautiful speech by a beautiful man of character, courage and dignity. God bless Spain. I had the same choked up feeling the day we here in Canada won our right to marry.
I was born in the U.S. but after living in a country where all have equal rights and all of us have equal protection I cannot imagine living in a place like the U.S. where ignorance and intolerance rules most of the land. It has turned out to be such a backward place. I am also sad for you that you do not have a president who has the virtue, the morality, the heart for freedom and equality that was displayed by the leader of Spain in this video. To all of you gays who are giving your president a free pass, putting your rights on the back burner and making excuses for your leader, may God bless you, because you have obviously never tasted the joys of equality, liberty and justice. Once you have you could never settle the way you are.
DeAnimator
I knew he would chicken out. Why does everyone expect him to do anything for the queer community? He’s just another politician.
ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
We’ll never have rights because we’re to busy fucking bitching about everything sitting on our fat asses. There is no leadership because the gay community is to busy fighting each other to fight for our rights. We deserve what we get.
rigs
@Anthony: so those are our option someone who lies to get our votes and does nothing and someone who doesn’t even pretend. I don’t care for either, and there are other options. 2012 will be the test.
Joeb1212
@alejandro: Then why do you keep coming back asshole?
victor
@Alex:
Well said. But what exactly do you have in mind?
michael
I challenge all of you to watch the video that was posted by 100 and then come back and tell us what a great leader, what a great person Obama is. I challenge you.
Dabq
@michael: LOL, you may be correct, but, since this is a sex, gossip site and not a real one for politics, its good for my daily chuckle and there are more than a few of the ‘serious’ ones here who give me a good laugh. if, I want to discuss the alleged shortcomings of the 125 day old Obama administration, I’ll go to real political sites where the posters understand how the wheels of government work and I just can’t respect posters who have spewed the n-word like many do with any Obama thread which is why I take only a couple of posters here serious, the rest, nah.
But, you all don’t have to worry, you’ll have Palin, Gingrich or Rommney in 3 more years to rescue you and work on the issues that are important to the glbt community!
Dabq
@fitc: I do ‘keep’ up, I didn’t expect him or anyone else running for office to be to be the fierce champion of gay rights since anyone with a clue knows they tell each crowd what they want to hear, and, no more than HRC would have been, since they know if they come out strong on gay rights out the gate, its over for them. Now, that is not only keeping up, its keeping it real since no matter how shrill the posters here get, politicians are politicians first, and its all about the next election, they know its sadly still real in 2009 to get caught up in the gay issues which are still hot button and I still think he will gradually get to work on glbt issues. Is it right? No, but, it is a reality.
michael
@Dabq: Thats why I live in Vancouver and thats why I fall on my knees and thank God everyday for the opportunity. I just think something really bad is going to have to happen to the U.S. before it ever wakes up. Its sad to think a society has to destroy itself before it can ever change. Oh well, it won’t be the first to have had to take that route.
InExile
MARCH ON WASHINGTON FOR EQUALITY IS WHEN???????????????
ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
@michael:
ummm dramatic much? America is destroying itself to have to accept gay rights? hardly…and your god doesn’t exist.
InExile
@michael: Thank you, very good comment! RIGHTS ARE NOT WON BY BEING PASSIVE, RIGHTS MUST BE DEMANDED. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
schlukitz
@InExile:
“MARCH ON WASHINGTON FOR EQUALITY IS WHEN???????????????”
When pigs fly, most likely. ;-P
Enjoy Ft. Lauderdale.
Nitesurf
If no one speaks up loudly about gay rights, nothing will change. Better gear up for a fight since the President is not going to act.
andy_d
@Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com:
You state “…nonviolent civil disobedience that will disrupt federal business as usual and demonstrate to the public how serious our rights are.” The need is not to disrupt Federal business, but to disrupt CONGRESSIONAL and PRESIDENTIAL business as usual. As a retired Fed employee, the problems lie not with the rank and file workers, but the ultimate decision makers (or decision non-makers as the case may be).
@Alex: Thank you
michael
@ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt: There destroying there self for many more reasons than that. Because it is a country of poorly educated, trash, like yourself.
Now go back and finish watching your wrestling match, your ignorance is annoying everyone.
michael
Whoops, I mean They are, not there and their not there.
tofer david
“Gotta say it….and I hate to say it, but I’m really disappointed in President Obama on gay issues. I know the guy has a lot on his plate right now, but still.”
Christ, a lot on his plate? Either you are for or against DADT? Either you are for gay marriage or your not. What is there to discuss and decide?
HE could write a couple executive orders and make some significant changes. He isn’t. Christ the executive branch of government has hundred of thousands of people working in it. SUrely, there is someone that can get on this. Crap, I am sure there are people willing to volunteer that don’t even work that would help.
Yes we can! Change I believe in!
andy_d
sorry folks. screwed up on the email address. it SHOULD be
[email protected]
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@michael:
“There destroying there self for many more reasons than that. Because it is a country of poorly educated, trash, like yourself.
Now go back and finish watching your wrestling match, your ignorance is annoying everyone.”
thanks for proving my point, you aren’t entitled to comment on things such as this because they don’t apply to you. You don’t give a damn about the US because its all trash. Pricks like you really piss me off. So tell me are you actually Canadian or did you hop the border like a coward because you were afraid to fight for your rights in the US. You disgust me with all your remarks on intelligence, who are you, to judge others intelligence? Have fun in apathetic Canada, where the people let the govt do whatever the hell they want, they don’t even care to show up the polls, a bunch of sheep. You aren’t any different Michael.
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@michael:
“Whoops, I mean They are, not there and their not there.”
Making numerous grammatical errors while trying to lecture someone on their stupid. Like I said you are a tool.
allstarecho
I wish Queerty would go after our own losers (HRC would be a good place to start) with as much vigor and determination that they use DAILY to point out what a shithead Obama is. Seriously Queerty, give it a rest.
Leonard @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@andy_d:
I thought it would be clear that by “Federal business” I was referring to the President and Congress.
HOWEVER, shutting down IRS headquarters re marriage equality, Immigration re foreign-born gay partners and HIV+ issues, the Pentagon re DADT, and State re silence on gay murders by our Iraqi partners for a day would be ideal object lessons, too.
Alex
Just out of curiosity, how many people here would attend a March on Washington for LGBT(Q) Rights? Why or why not? Note that such an event, if it were to work, would be co-sponsored by most if not all of the mainstream LGBT groups, including HRC, which I know some people (myself included) don’t necessarily love. So how about it? Will I see you there?
michael
@tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt:
You really should get out of that trailer park and travel, your ignorance is spewing out like a bad case of the runs if it keeps on you won’t have enough brains left to cash your food stamp check.
As far as fighting for rights, rest assured I give far more cash,
am involved in far more U.S. organizations than you have the capacity to count. I was even married in San Fran last August to another American, partially chosen to show support to my brothers and sisters in California and be part of history.
As far as “fleeing” the U.S. your big stupid assumptions are probably only trumped by your big fat ass that you sit on all day.
The reality is my company transferred me there for an obscene amount of money to develop something that is much to complicated and important for your tiny little brain to understand. But once it is done it will change lives for a very sick group of people.
I also maintain a house in the U.S., no, not a trailer, a house and because of my income level pay taxes as well. So, you little
single celled organism, I probably have more rights to give my opinion than you do. Tell us? What is it that you do for humanity
and gay rights, aside from act like an Obama version of a brain dead Bush follower? Don’t think to hard as I would not want your head to explode.
jason
If you’re looking for 2 million gays to march on Washington, forget it. You’d be more likely to get 2 million gays to attend bars and nightclubs in search of an orgasm.
hephaestion
Wanda Sykes needs to start humiliating Obama on his failure to end Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell. THAT would get his attention.
hephaestion
@Alex:
“How many people here would attend a March on Washington for LGBT Rights?”
Not me. And I live in DC.
DC politicians are never even aware of 99.9% of the marches that take place here in DC. It is not an effective way of getting their attention because there are marches and gatherings here EVERY DAY… often several “big national marches” on the same day. Our congressmen just yawn in their cabs as they pass the mobs in their yellow t-shirts or green t-shirts or red t-shirts, whatever the color du jour is. Coming to visit your congressman to express your views is good, but you will only get to talk to an aide (for 5 minutes), even if you’re a decorated veteran.
mb00
@johnvisser:
“will be mad becuase they’re paying $5 for a gallon of milk”
Some of us are already paying that and more for a gallon of milk, try between $6 & $9 in Hawaii.
I agree with your statement. If the rest of the country is going to $5 for a gallon of milk, I can’t imagine what’s going to do the our 50th state. We have to pay double, sometimes triple for most things here, we’re just gonna sink into the pacific.
I was all for defending Obama. But as time keeps going by, I do feel used. His campaign used us, just as the Clinton campaigns used us.
Maybe next election we should just not get behind any candidate and skip the voting process all together. I mean, it isn’t like it does us any good.
Seems like at the end of the day, we ed up more disappointed than when we started.
Bryan
When are gay people going to stop falling for the allure of the glitter ball and realize people are just saying what you want to hear so you will elect them. Democrats let the carrot hang out there….Republicans say no way…there isn’t going to be a carrot. Either way, we are still in the same boat. It takes action by the people….get involved and put pressure on ALL of them.
james ii
i think anyone who has those rainbow obama stickers, signs, buttons, etc., as well as any ‘obama pride’ etc. junk (because that’s what it is now) should mail them back to the white house, en masse, a la when the disgusted viet nam vets tossed their medals into the potomac.
and do it publicly, with cameras and reporters present.
hmmm???
troy
@james ii: not a bad idea, not bad at all.
strumpetwindsock
@michael:
Re: Vancouver,
too bad the referendum didn’t pass yesterday.
It came close last time.
Robert, NYC
Ideally, the only way to force the Democrats to do something about this would be if we as a bloc vote en masse for a third party candidate, the Green party for example, if we get no action on DOMA, ENDA or marriage quality by 2012. True, a third party would probably get nowhere but it would empower it more and send a clear message to the Dems and the GOP that we are a force to be reckoned with. I’m not sure just how big the gay voting bloc is but I’m convinced the Dems couldn’t get a second shot in 2012 without it. If they really want our vote, let them earn it. So far, they’ve not done it and Obama most certainly hasn’t. I only voted for him to get rid of the previous regime, nothing more. You can bet we’ll get virtually nothing but more delay tactics as usual. How much more shoulud we tolerate this?
michael
@strumpetwindsock: I totally agree.
Lymis
I agree that we have to stand up and be seen.
I’m not sure that with today’s media, big marches are the way to do it – it is far too easy to simply disappear us – look at the (non Prejean) coverage of marriage equality on the nightly news – wait, don’t even bother to look.
Come out. Come out to every member of your family. Come out at work. Come out at school. Come out to your extended family, your neighbors, be out at the grocery store.
Ask anyone who tells you we need marches if they are as out as they can be in their personal life. I haven’t seen any studies on how seeing angry people with signs changes minds, but every study shows that people who know that they know someone gay vote overwhelmingly for gay rights, while people who think they don’t vote overwhelmingly against us.
For anyone who admires Rosa Parks, every gay person has the ability to refuse to give up our seat in our own little corner of the world. We’ll accomplish far more when we are visible in everyday life than we will if we clump together for an evening of marching.
Let Pride parades be the celebration of fun and pride that they are supposed to be, and make your civil rights case in your own family first.
Especially if you are in a state or community that has protections in place. Those of us lucky to be in those circumstances have far less excuse.
Tony
Hmmm. Are we finally getting the picture on this guy. He just does not like the gays, period, end of story. He needed our votes when the election looked like it would be close. Since the Repubs have totally become the brand of last choice, he does not need us, and we are immediately thrown under the bus like a used condom.
Brand Obama is a typical douchebag politician. White libs fell in love with the fact that he could be called “black” while having the same cred as the other so-called Ivy League “progressives” carry without actually caring about those who are facing the reality of economic hardship and real discrimination.
Obama. Bigot. Empty suit. All around douchebag. Bush’s third term. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Rod
MAYBE THE COUNTRY FELT IT WASN’T READY FOR A WOMAN PRESIDENT YET, BUT I STILL BELIEVE THAT HILLARY CLINTON WOULD HAVE MADE A GREAT PRESIDENT,AS I HEAR THAT SHE IS SUPPOSE TO DIVORCE BILL IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
voting constituent
That is exactly why myself and many of my friends were Hillary supporters. She actually had a record of supporting and sponsoring GLB legislation policy and not just rhetoric. If you ever actually listened to the man, he was a great orator but no actual substance in the action part. I knew my doubts about him were confirmed when he started off with his inauguration. Although, I think he has done well in other issues like the environment, service-learning, etc. his separate but equal stance on GLB civil rights is disappointing and hypocritical.
Need supporters
Hey all, I have what I believe to be a great idea for an equal rights campaign to help get equal rights to gay couples while also satisfying the religious objectors “sanctity” of marriage. This idea isn’t specific to the gay couples wanting partnership rights, this idea also affects straight couples and how they acquire partnership rights.
I’m not gay and that’s why I’m having such a hard time establishing whether or not the gay community would be in favor of my campaign.
Please email me at [email protected] if you have time to discuss my campaign. I really think we could get something done on both sides of the board with this concept, I just need to establish whether the gay community agrees or sees my idea as acceptable etc etc.
Yes the email is real, it’s obviously named for its purpose and easy to remember, hopefully if I get enough supporters we can make something happen.
Thanks!
Robert, NYC
@voting constituent:
We must also remember that Hillary takes the same stand as Obama on marriage equality at the federal level in the form of civil unions, she made that emphatically clear at a forum held by Gay leaders and during her campaign, so the field is level on that point. Otherwise, she had a far better plan on universal health care without insurance companies being involved, the single payer system. If the country truly wanted change and democrats, moderate independents and others were serious about it, they would have supported Dennis Kucinich. The only apparent change in Obama is his race, a plus, but that’s hardly going to bring about the changes we need as far as LGBT people are concerned. He’s nothing more than a moderative conservative centrist, not what I would call a social progressive, nor was Hillary for that matter.
Robert, NYC
@Rod:
The time is always right for a female president, just look around Europe and elsewhere, even the UK had one. Ours is an extremely patriarchal society and I don’t see that changing so fast. Religion plays a role in the American system unlike any other modern western society which is why we get nowhere on equality. No candidate can run for the highest office in America unless he or she professes a religious belief system, its virtually a rite of passage to get elected. You don’t see that in Western Europe and elsewhere.
CitizenGeek
@johnvisser: That seems to be true. At least Bush didn’t take our money, our support and our votes.
Nizara
He is a liar and a bullshit artist.
Celebrity is his number 1 concern.
He appeared on Letterman this week – for the 6th time –
I now refer to Obama as: BOB GOT HOPE.
schlukitz
@Dave:
I am willing to give him more time…
The Pope’s had over two thousand years.
How much “more time” will he need I wonder???
All good things come to those who wait…and wait…and wait…
Anyone got a deck of pinochle cards in the interim?
schlukitz
@Alex: @Anthony in Nashville:
It’s easier to complain than to be proactive about changing the situation.
Okaaaaay. Good point.
So….what’s your suggestions(s)?
We are still waiting to hear…..
schlukitz
@jamesjames:
Co-sign. He finds time for everything…but us gays!
Not only are we separate. We are still unequal as well.
Nice going, Mr. Obama.
Like Bob Hope, our theme song has become “Thanks for the memories.”
Brian
@OC Mike: “has any oppressed community ever simply been handed their rights?”
Well, unlike gays and lesbians, they weren’t fighting religion. Religion made us wrong. We’ll never be equal, as long as we’re wrong.