Hillary Going “Nuclear”

Hillary Clinton seems poised to blow Barack Obama out of the electoral water.

The Senator’s campaign today confirmed a report that they plan to use their pals on the party’s Rules and Bylaws Committee to validate Michigan and Florida’s previously invalidated primary counts. Those state weren’t meant to count because they broke rank and held their primaries early.

Both Clinton and Obama previously wagged their finger at those states, and Obama even yanked his name from the Michigan ballot. Now that she’s down, however, Mrs. Clinton’s hoping her allies can push her over the edge:

With at least 50 percent of the Democratic Party’s 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee committed to Clinton, her backers could — when the committee meets at the end of this month — try to ram through a decision to seat the disputed 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations.

Such a decision would give Clinton an estimated 55 or more delegates than Obama, according to Clinton campaign operatives.

The former first lady’s campaign initially refused to publicly comment on this “nuclear” tactic, but have no released a statement confirming their backstage dealings.

Some wonder whether such a move would create the oft-referenced “rift” with black voters, but others suggest that Mrs. Clinton will attempt to quell anger by taking Obama on her ticket.

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  • Bitch Republic

    Votes in Michigan and Florida absolutely should count. You’re telling me a black man wants to disenfranchise two whole states and then expects to win the presidency? I don’t think so.

    It’s Obama’s own fault that his name was not on the ballot in Michigan. It certainly isn’t Hillary’s fault.

  • ChristopherM

    So it’s Obama’s fault for FOLLOWING THE DAMN RULES?! Bitch, please.

  • Maxwell

    If she actually thinks that she is going to get any of Obama’s supporters, let alone, the black vote by back dooring her way to the nomination; she will be in for a rude awakening in November. Senator Obama and Senator Clinton both agreed with the DNC not to seat these delegates. Now that she is down; it is her entitlement attitude that now desires to seat them.

  • Steve

    It’s not Obama’s fault for following the rules, however, it is not the fault of the millions of voters in those states that their primaries were pushed up and their voice taken away from them. In fact both Obama and Clinton followed the rules, however, in a race this close you can’t discount 5 million people, sorry you just can’t.

    It most certainly is Obama’s fault for taking his name off the ballot in Michigan, that was stupid. And if she should get the nomination and the Obama supporters & black voters decide to vote for McCain or not vote at all, then they can blame themselves for the state of the union. I am tired of the fear tactic on both supporters sides that if their candidate doesn’t get the nom that they will go McCain or not at all.

  • Bitch Republic

    Obama didn’t have to pull his name from Michigan. It’s Obama’s fault that his name was not on the ballot in Michigan.

  • Thom

    First of all, it is not Obama’s fault for removing his name from the Michigan Ballot. Last time I checked, everyone’s name was removed but Senator Clintons. In regards to Obama supporters or black voters being blamed for our state in the world, if McCain wins; well, last time I checked, we just survived 8 years of Bush. I do believe that we can survive 4 years of McCain. However, I will not vote for Senator Clinton, if it appears as is if she stole the election. If she wins it according to the DNC rules she agreed too, than she will have my vote in November.

  • ChristopherM

    So the solution is cheating, Steve? We aren’t Republicans for god’s sakes! I have said all along that as repugnant as I have found her campaign to be, I would vote for Clinton if she is the nominee because the alternative is simply so dangerous. But if she wins by getting delegates illegally seated from a primary where even though she was the only name on the ballot and nearly half of the voters still said NO to her, I don’t know that I can do it. It goes against everything we’re supposed to be about as a party. It goes against every shred of decency. It is precisely something Bush would do, and I think it would ultimately be the destruction of the party by alienating the hundreds of thousands of new voters who have signed up this year. It is nothing short of election theft, and I can’t justify it for anything, including a McCain presidency.

  • Steve

    **sry that should have been 2 millions voters, not 5**

  • M Shane

    If Clinton is running we may as well be voting Repiublican. It will be just like her to get her way illegally. This is like putting Bush in for another term. It seems to be the reality of th U.S to FLUSH the CONSTITUTION and every other rule. of Law.
    This was about the time when Rome and most Republics went under. It will be a completely fraudulent count if Obama s name wasn’t in due to ilegality (democracy?). Anyone who is alright with that already condones putting a criminal in office.
    It is not only blacks that she will have to deal with but educated white etc persons.

  • Steve

    How is this cheating? I don’t see it as that. Regardless of the insane DNC rules that stripped the delegates away, 2.3 million people still made time to get to the voting booths to have their voices heard. If Obama was way ahead in the popular vote I could understand(but still don’t agree) not having these votes counted, but the fact is that there is a difference of around a half million votes between the two candidates.

    I just don’t think it right to discount that many votes in a race this close. Punish the officials who made the choice to bump up the primary, but to take away the voices of American citizens for something they had no control over is ridiculous.

  • abelincoln

    M Shane – aren’t there other educated voters besides whites?

    On the cynical side, stealing in politics doesn’t seem to be frowned upon by any politician as long as it’s the politician stealing.

    Obama is getting screwed because the media can’t let go of the Reverend Wright bullshit. And as far as I can tell it’s total bullshit. Who cares? I don’t think Obama thinks like Wright just because he went to that church any more than Obama might think like a Wether Underground person just because he knows one.

    I wish the politicians would stick to the real issues that affect the public and that people would be less hateful towards Obama and Clinton as it doesn’t do anyone any good.

    BTW – This was never a democracy – just look at the process – delegates who don’t have to vote with the people they represent, an electoral college which skews the popular vote and on and on. Just look at the 2000 election.

  • Ross

    I could not agree with you more M Shane. Everyone assumes that only black people are voting for Senator Obama. Last time I checked, black Americans had minds of their own. I am sure they are also voting for Senator Clinton. I am sure some are voting for Senator McCain. However, Senator Obama would not have risen to this point if it were not for the support of all American people of all ethnicities. Trust me, all of those supporters, will not be in a rush to vote for Senator Clinton if this election is stolen. If she wins it fairly, then we will be there for her in November.

  • ChristopherM

    And Steve, an incalculable number stayed home because they were told their vote would not count. Obama removed his name from the ballot as did all the other candidates out of respect for the rules. She is now attempting to circumvent the rules to take an election she swore would be off limits. That qualifies as cheating under any reasonable definition of the word. Playing this option will undoubtedly result in an incurable fracture in the party. We can (barely) survive four years of McSame. We cannot survive a large portion of the party deciding that perhaps Nader was right and there is no difference in the parties.

  • The Realist

    The rules did not require Obama or any candidate to remove their name from the Michigan ballot.

  • The Realist

    Chris Dodd remained on the ballot, also. The only aggrement made was that no candidate would campaign in MIchigan.

  • David

    This is absurd. The DNC clearly laid out the rules long before Florida and Michigan chose their primary dates. I feel badly for voters in both of those states, and I understand that it’s not their fault. Maybe next time they’ll choose their representatives more carefully. But Dean is correct in upholding the rules.
    It would be an enormous mistake for Clinton to try to ram this through the Rules and Bylaws committee instead of trying to come to some equitable resolution with her opponent and the DNC.

  • Steve

    We can agree to disagree. I still say 2.3 million people came out to vote and to take away their votes is absurd…thought so from day one.

    And Chris, only Obama and Edwards removed their names from the ballot…

  • An Other Greek

    ***Everyone’s name was removed from the Michigan Ballot but Senator Clintons.***
    ***Everyone’s name was removed from the Michigan Ballot but Senator Clintons.***
    ***Everyone’s name was removed from the Michigan Ballot but Senator Clintons.***


    Because they were so instructed. Hillary’s cheating goes back months… WE DEMOCRATS decided that Michigan and Florida would NOT COUNT if they decided to unilaterally BREAK THE RULES…

    Clinton supporters are willing obfuscators in her desperate and logic-slaying little shananigans… In fact, they are accomplices to laughably transparent THIEVERY.

    We have had to endure so much during these primaries from the Clintons, but now THIEVERY???

    Are they really trying to achieve the executive THIS WAY?? Why would anyone vote for someone who would stoop that low? Is this who you want as president?

    A CHEATER that will lie to your face?

    Not me! I’ve had quite enough of opposite-land during Bush. Time for a change. Good-bye Hillary. Go home!


  • Steve

    Michigan Results:

    Hillary Rodham Clinton 328,309
    Uncommitted 238,168
    Dennis J. Kucinich 21,715
    Christopher J. Dodd 3,845
    Mike Gravel 2,361

    An Other Greek,
    I assume you have the same disdain for Kucinich, Dodd and Gravel too?

  • Leland Frances

    Forgive our confusion. Delegate/candidate selection procedures debates are one thing but why bring up race? We have been repeatedly told that blacks who support Obama do NOT support him simply because he’s black. Yet every day we see more and more evidence to the contrary, from your “oft-referenced ‘rift’ with black voters” to black Cretin er Congressman Clyburn escalating from race baiting Sen. Clinton months ago to all-out race card playing now that would make him the star dealer in any Las Vegas casino.

    If you want to throw around metaphors like “going nuclear,” it’s clear there’s a great deal of “BLACKmail” going on, too.

    And, M Shame, you clearly don’t qualify for your own category of “educated white etc persons” with your hysterical comparison of all this to the flushing the Constitution and the fall of Rome. Didn’t you Obama Marys hear—it was sodomites who caused the fall of Rome?

    Thanks for not throwing in again that Hillary had Vince Foster killed and tortures kittens.

  • Gregoire

    “We can agree to disagree. I still say 2.3 million people came out to vote and to take away their votes is absurd…thought so from day one.”

    Well good for you. But the Democrats are a PARTY. This is not a national election. As a party, they can choose their own candidate in any way they want. They laid out the rules — as asinine and bizarre as they are — in order to win that party’s nomination, one would logically think you would have to stick by those rules.

    If those rules disenfranchise voters, then maybe you should be enraged with the Democratic political machinery, instead of trying to empower a candidate that — having decided that nobody tells her what to do — has no other way of winning than this blatant and fatally disrupting step.

    I’m telling you, if Hillary does this, it spells the end of the Democratic party. Political parties in the past have been ripped apart for lesser offenses.

  • An Other Greek

    I assume you have the same disdain for Kucinich, Dodd and Gravel too?


    I am rather fond and respectful of these guys. The same way I was mistakenly respectful of Clinton.

    IF, –IF–, Dodd or Kucinich had DARED go so low, which they NEVER would, I would then share my disdain…

    C’mon people, this is a joke! Gimme a break!!

    Hillary CRYING and pretending to be CONCERNED (concern-troll anyone?) about the “will of the voters” is an opposite-world BS absurdity…

    This will really show people what she is made of… They don’t call it the nuclear option for nothing. Her support of this thievery will backfire BIGTIME.

    Let’s not lie to ourselves…

  • Jason

    I switched to the Republican party here in Florida so my vote would count in the primary. If they don’t count Florida’s votes I will not only vote for McCain but will vote a straight Republican ticket out of protest.

  • churchill-y


    Your assuming Obamists deal with facts.

    They just wan’t to disenfranchise MICHIGAN and FLORIDA voters because they know that were real democracy allowed to go on Hillary would be in the lead and they can’t have that happening.

  • An Other Greek

    Clinton wins largely uncontested Michigan primary
    By Boston.com staff
    January 15, 2008

    Hillary Clinton won a largely uncontested Michigan Democratic primary Tuesday.
    more stories like this

    The Democratic National Committee stripped the Michigan of all its delegates to the Democratic National Convention because the state scheduled its primary at an earlier date than sanctioned by the party.

    As a result, most Democratic candidates, including Barack Obama and John Edwards, removed their names from the ballot and neglected to campaign in the state. Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Christopher Dodd — who dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses — were the only names featured on the ballot.

    With 89 percent of precincts reporting, Clinton had 56 percent of the vote — and 39 percent of voters indicated they were “uncommitted,” with the remaining five percent distributed among the three lesser candidates.

    …and Hillary wants to count the ‘votes’ as a concern for FAIRNESS ???

    Does she thin we’re idiots? Been a while since I’ve been so insulted by someone in my own party!

    Clinton’s credibility? ZERO !

  • Steve

    Give Obama the uncommitted votes in Michigan and call it a day…

  • Chuck

    There is no way that I can possibly vote for Billary. Nor for McCain. If it comes that then I’ll vote for the Libertarian candidate. The Clintons are despicable.

  • rickroberts

    Never count out a Clinton. Hillary is absolutely ruthless, and I fucking love it! Barack does not have the spine to win this election or to govern this country.

  • Brad

    It is the Democratic party of FL and MI whose fault it is that their state will not be counted. Why should their votes count if they are not going to follow the rules. It makes the party look weak if they have a couple of states telling them what to do.

  • Gregoire

    “They just wan’t to disenfranchise MICHIGAN and FLORIDA voters because they know that were real democracy allowed to go on Hillary would be in the lead and they can’t have that happening.”

    Obama supporters arent disenfranchising Michigan and Florida. The Democratic Party is! Snap out of it. You’re falling for rhetoric instead of looking at facts.

    If the democratic voters of Florida and Michigan wanted their votes counted, they should have followed the rules of the party in whose election they were participating. They VIOLATED their own party rules.

    Political parties can make whatever rules they wish and can penalize voters and whole states in whatever way they wish. NONE of which was some big mystery going into those primaries.

    The ‘nuclear option’ is not going to work anyway, so I don’t know why we’re having the discussion. In fact, I hesitate to give this story much credence in the first place, as it seems to feed into a bit of a Hillary stereotype as some sort of behind-the-scenes puppet master.

  • Steve

    In Florida, Democrats(and Republicans) wanted an earlier primary than in March as in previous years. The primary dates are set by the house and senate in florida. Both republicans and democrats voted in favor of moving the date up. However, it was the republican lead legislature that created the January 29th date. Democrats tried to file amendments to block this and move the date up to the 5th of February but were always vetoed by the republicans.

    So yes the democrat voters in florida are very much disenfranchised…

  • Kid A

    The “disenfranchised” voters in MI and FL have no reason to get pissy with Obama or his supporters. They need to send their ire to their respective leaders.

  • jacksmith


    If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of “BITTER”!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

    Best regards

    jacksmith… Working Class :-)

    p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

    If you don’t know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering…

    You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

    Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don’t die from. And I could go on, and on…


  • jacksmith


    It’s time for everyone to face the truth. Barack Obama has no real chance of winning the national election in November at this time. His crushing defeat in Pennsylvania makes that fact crystal clear. His best, and only real chance of winning in November is on a ticket with Hillary Clinton as her VP.

    Hillary Clinton seemed almost somber at her Pennsylvania victory speech. As if part of her was hoping Obama could have proved he had some chance of winning against the republican attack machine, and their unlimited money, and resources.

    But it is absolutely essential that the democrats take back the Whitehouse in November. America, and the American people are in a very desperate condition now. And the whole World has been doing all that they can to help keep us propped up.

    Hillary Clinton say’s that the heat, and decisions in the Whitehouse are much tougher than the ones on the campaign trail. But I think Mr. Obama faces a test of whether he has what it takes to be a commander and chief by facing the difficult facts, and the truth before him. And by doing what is best for the American people by dropping out of the race, and offering his whole hearted assistance to Hillary Clinton to help her take back the Whitehouse for the American people, and the World.

    Mr. Obama is a great speaker. And I am confident he can explain to the American people the need, and wisdom of such a personal sacrifice for them. It should be clear to everyone by now that Hillary Clinton is fighting her heart out for the American people. She has known for a long time that Mr. Obama can not win this November. You have to remember that the Clinton’s have won the Whitehouse twice before. They know what it takes.

    If Mr. Obama fails his test of commander and chief we can only hope that Hillary Clinton can continue her heroic fight for the American people. And that she prevails. She will need all the continual support and help we can give her. She may fight like a superhuman. But she is only human.

    Sen. Hillary Clinton: “You know, more people have now voted for me than have voted for my opponent. In fact, I now have more votes than anybody has ever had in a primary contest for a nomination. And it’s also clear that we’ve got nine more important contests to go.”


    Jacksmith… Working Class :-)

  • 24play

    Only two legislators in Florida voted against the 1/29 primary. That means every other Democrat in the state legislature voted for it.

  • M Shane

    BTW abe lincoln: regarding your suggestion that I only said that It was the “educated white” voters wgho supported Obama: you were’nt reading: I wrote ” educated white, etc) which means intentionally other colors besides white.
    The literal horror of Bush’s reign is not so much that he pesistently broke the American Consttitution and Every law of International decency so promiscuously and Confidently, but that he was allowed to do so. For ANYONE with the least knowledge of Constitutional law
    the basis of that set of rules is that they are a construction made with the paramount purpose of contriving a set of “checks and balances” which would keep anyone from ever breaking any of the laws.
    The effect of allthat Bush has done is to break the rule of the land and get Congressional and SupremeCourt approval in such a way that the validity of those laws have forever been breeched. Much like a complex set of dams depending on one another can hold a country together until breached; the ultimate Rule of Law has been corrupted in a way that cannot be put back in place. It is easy now for any corruption or desicration of any law to take place. We have established our ultimate willingness to for the defilement law.
    Clinton is just treading in the shoes of Bush.
    The only thing really left to do is in this course as the Roman senate did., hand power over to a dictator. Even Gen.Tommy Franks said, quite specifically, that it will just take one more national tragedy and the whole corpus of order will colapse.Anyone remember from grde school: “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance”:
    Hannah Arendt : talking about Eichmann wrote about the “banality of evil” the kind of endemic shalowness that leads to just the kind of inability to think involved in accepting this kind of dumb trickery which will doom us if we allow it.

  • David

    As A Florida Voter who did bother to vote it was’nt a Beauty Contest as Obama calls it but taking the time to do what is your civic Duty as a Citizen of this Country or at least thats what I was taught in High School. but have now left the Democratic Party and will not Vote for Barak Obama under any circumstances I will vote though for Hillary if shes the nominie even though I voted for Edwards in January Obama is just not my type of Beauty Queen See Barak words do matter.

  • Gregoire

    John McCain will be the president of the United States. Congratulations Dems for fucking up another election!

  • Vinman

    I am from Indiana and this is the first primary in decades where my vote will count. WHAT”S THAT? All states that have late primaries don’t usually count. Why do you think MI and FL moved there primaries up! So thier votes would count! By the time we get to vote it has usually already been decided. I would like to see all primaries done within one month. That way I could vote for the candidate I want, not just what’s left over.

  • todd

    Now she wants the votes counted – she could have cared less in FL in 2000 or Ohio in 2004. I don’t see her winning without Obama as VP. Then once again she will ride the coat tails of a charismatic man into the whitehouse.

  • noah


    A defeat by 9% is far from crushing read the facts.


    Where’s your proof?

    There were no wars under Bill Clinton, only police actions. Soldiers died in Somalia. Remember “Blackhawk Down.”

    Leland Frances,

    Congressman Clyburn is a “cretin” for stating an opinion with which you disagree.

    It’s interesting watching the election because so many supposedly liberal, enlightened people reveal their inner bigotries. If African-Americans express an opinion that one doesn’t like, they must be race-baiters.

    Got news for you. Hillary Clinton started out with 90% approval ratings amongst African-Americans. It wasn’t until Clinton and company started the Southern Strategy of injecting race into the campaign that she lost support.

    Had a straight male politician had done as much gay baiting, wouldn’t most of you Clintonista’s all be decrying the homophobia? You bet!

    The double standard that applies to race in this country is appalling. Conversations about race are shaped whites and if someone of color says something that threatens some whites, they that person is dangerous.

    Overturning the rules to win is a strategy the Republicans have used over the last 7 years to the destruction of the rule of law. If Clinton can’t respect the rules of the DNC to gain office, how could we trust her while in office.

    The reality is that Hillary Clinton is the GOP’s wet dream. The Republican masses hate her. Now, a lot of liberals hate her, too. Go over to the big liberal sites like the DailyKos.com, Americablog.com, Huffingtonpost.com, or others and read the comments there. Most of the writers are straight white males and females who are now throughly disgusted with Clinton because of her actions.

  • jackoff


    If you think HILLARY CLINTON is a DEMOCRAT and not a big, fat, ugly, fart-smelling, turn-coat REPUBLICAN, then you all are just a bunch of STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

    I Might Be An Idiot! :-)


  • The Milkman

    I have never sat out in a presidential election, but I will not vote for Senator Clinton if she wins the nomination that way. Period.

  • AJ

    I am from Florida. My Vote did not count in 2000 and apparently, not going to count in 2008 either. Whether I voted for Obama or Clinton, shouldn’t my vote count? I did nothing wrong and as a citizen of the USA, not my state of FL but as a US citizen, its my right to vote, so I voted. I didn’t break the rules, hillary and barak didn’t break the rules, the politicians in the state did! Anyone from bloggers to politicians who say that we should not be counted are doing our Democracy an injustice and are just as bad as George Bush, who also won by not counting the votes.
    So decide, do you want your candidate to win or do you want democracy to win?

  • Gregoire

    A general election and a primary election are not beholden by the same rules.

    An eligible citizen cannot be blocked from voting in a general election because of national laws.

    A party primary is essentially a club election — in many states, you literally have to be a card-carrying member of that party/club to vote — and they can come up with any rationale for voting procedures that they see fit, on a state by state level, however absurd or damaging.

    Your general election vote did not count in 2000 because of an extraordinary circumstance, followed by a Supreme Court ruling.

    Your primary election vote did not count because of Democratic leaders that you apparently helped elect yourself.

    Can one of those closed-off Hillary supporters please elaborate on how you realistically expect Hillary to win the nomination? I would really like to know, a voter of Hillary Clinton who doesn’t think Obama is the anti-Christ and believes your all drunk from your sanctimonious kool-aid.

  • carlin

    The votes from Florida and Michigan should count. I don’t know why the Obama supporters act like Clinton is doing something wrong in pushing for this. If the shoe were on the other foot, you can be assured that Obama’s supporters would be raising holy hell. The best way to end this stalemate is to count ALL the votes and do it now.

  • Count to Zero

    Hey Carlin,

    But the shoe isn’t on the other foot, is it? And no matter how much it pisses off you and the other supporters of the former 1st Lady, there really isn’t a stalemate to end because that game is over. Tough luck. Maybe McCain will ask her to run as his vice president.

  • An Other Greek


    If I were you I wouldn’t be bringing up “other-foot-scenarios”…

    IF indeed it was Hillary that was in the lead and Obama crying, well, need I go on???

    Also, the rest of you stop trying to sound all concerned like you are Bill Kristol or KKKarl Rove suddenly caring fro FL and MI… We call this fakery/fuckery: “concern trolls”. Stop lying and pretending that “you care” about the votes in MI and FL, when we all FULL WELL KNOW that even IF we were to play that game, the elections were de facto invalid. The candidates did not campaign, and some weren’t even on the ballot. So even if we were to give Hillary the votes, would that then make it a fair election?


    So stop the BS, it’s an assault to rational thinking, and an insult to our intelligence.

    Stop your crying, and deal with it.

    Obama is the Democratic Nominee!


  • ChristopherM

    If you rip off bad redneck comedy for your Queerty commentary, you are definitely an idiot.

  • AJ

    Gregoire, I am well aware of the definitions of the political systems and history and have access to more non-bias television programs from outside the US, where it’s nothing but the facts.

    “Can one of those closed-off Hillary supporters please elaborate on how you realistically expect Hillary to win the nomination? I would really like to know, a voter of Hillary Clinton who doesn’t think Obama is the anti-Christ and believes your all drunk from your sanctimonious kool-aid.”

    that’a simple answer, they count FL and MI, and she would be ahead.I am not a pro-hillary person, I like both canidates, and I voted for both of them, fairly. Hillary in the FL primary and Barak in the Democrats Abroad primary. I really hate this bias on account of if this canidate wins, I’m not voting for the other. That’s complete BS.

    We have 2 canidates that care or atleast pretend to care about the Gay community, and everyone should remember that first. Every Vote should count, but to be fair, MI should have another primary, where Barak’s name appears on it. The voters of FL voted fair and precise, even though barak had an advantage by running one of his
    If the democrats lose in November, it will be the fault of these biased supporters.

  • Gregoire

    So you openly admit that Hillary’s only chance at the presidency is bending the rules as dictated by her own party? Doesnt it occur to you that if she really deserved to be president that she wouldnt need to stoop to such desperate measures as going against the party whose nomination she’s trying to score?

    The situation is completely absurd. Rational people are justifying the most bizarre scenarios because, like Mrs Clinton, they simply cannot believe she is being denied what was once so inevitable. I voted for Hillary in the primary, but now I’m just embarrassed by this.

  • rickroberts

    Gregoire, Nodoby is “bending the rules.” There is a process for adjudicating these matters. Sen Clinton is following that process and could very well lose in that adjudication. Just settle in, dude.

  • Steve

    I don’t necessarily think that Clinton will win the primary, however, I want her to try all avenues to do it, as do the bulk of her supporters, and it is still possible for her to do it. And am still hopeful that enough of the superdelegates will look and she that she can do it and will support her(again not bending the rules, this would be perfectly acceptable by the Dem Party guidelines)

    Rick is correct, this is not bending the rules, this is following every option you have at your disposal. It is up to the Dem party to determine how to handle it. She is running to be the presidential candidate, and I have little doubt in my mind that Obama supporters would want him to seek out every option in order to win the nom as well. You all can be fine in your lives to just throw in the towel when you are down, but quite frankly most of her supporters are behind her because she has the tenacity to keep going, and we still believe her to be the better candidate. This is due process, this is how the nomination process is supposed to play out. Why is everyone so bent that the process is playing out exactly as dictated in the Democratic Party guidelines? Hate the game not the players.

    And Noah, I call BS. “If African-Americans express an opinion that one doesn’t like, they must be race-baiters.” If white people express an opinion that black people don’t like, they are labeled race-baiters. And it is appalling. It works both ways here, and we have seen it time and time again from the Obama supporters in regards to Clinton. How much of the 90% approval ratings went down the toilet because the Obama camp was looking for any opportunity to use the race card? And they jumped on any word that came out of Clinton(or her surrogates) that they could twist to make her appear as bigoted.

  • AJ

    Listen, She may want the rules bent, just like I want this and you want that..but she can’t change the rules, only the DNC can do that. So why áre you being so hostile towards her and not at the DNC?

    Votes are votes, whether they were taken a year ago or today. Thousands, from different states, voted early also, even before Iowa and thier votes still count today! Punish the lawmakers, somehow, not the voters. But I still think, in defense of Barak, that another primary should be held in MI.

  • Afroguapo

    I believe what Noah was getting at, and Noah correct me if I am wrong, is that there appears to be a blatant double standard (whether it’s white pastors versus Wright) to HRC invoking Farrakhan’s name when it was irrelevant (but nonetheless “useful” for her) as Michael Moore cited in his article as to why he was supporting BHO (did you see the Larry King interview BTW?) to even the conversations on this thread. I’ve said nothing mean-spirited about white people on this site but when I try to explain how issues might be viewed from the perspective of some blacks, you have the usual race-baiting contingent go ballistic and into all these tirades just for presenting a contrary view. I don’t see black posters on this site resorting to the same invidious racially charged speech en masse that other posters use to either (1) make their points or (2) try to put down the black person in question. And that’s fact.

    May 6, 2008
    Op-Ed Columnist
    Combat and Composure
    Life is short, but campaigns are long. And during the course of them, each candidate will have impressive and pathetic moments. But underlying the highs and lows, there are the fundamentals. The fundamentals of the Obama-Clinton race were on display Sunday morning.

    Hillary Clinton went on “This Week With George Stephanopoulos” incarnating her role as the first Democratic Rambo. The Clinton campaign seems to want to reduce the entire race to one element: the supposed masculinity gap. And so everything she does is all about assertion, combat and Alpha dog dominance.

    A few questions in, Clinton rose from her chair and loomed over Stephanopoulos. The country hasn’t seen such a brazen display of attempted middle-aged physical intimidation since Al Gore took a walkabout on the debate stage with George Bush. It was like watching someone get elbowed in a dark alley by their homeroom teacher.

    But her attempt to take over the show was nothing compared with her attempt to dominate the truth. For the first 30 minutes, she did not utter a single candid word, including, as Mary McCarthy would say, “and” and “the.”

    She peddled her sham gas-tax holiday and repeated her attempt to blame Indiana’s job losses on outsourcing and Nafta. Stephanopoulos asked her to name a single economist who thinks a tax-holiday plan would work, and the daughter of Wellesley and Yale took the chance to shove the geeks into their lockers: “I’m not going to put my lot in with economists.”

    When Stephanopoulos pointed out that Paul Krugman, a Times columnist, has raised doubts about the plan, Clinton lumped Krugman in with the Bush administration and said she wasn’t going to listen to the people responsible for the last seven years.

    This wasn’t just shameless spin, it was shamelessness with a purpose. Clinton signaled that she wasn’t going to concede even an inch to the vast elitist conspiracy. She wasn’t going to feel guilty about ignoring the evidence. She was going to stomp on it, flay it and leave it a twisted mass of jelly quivering on the ground. She was going to perform the primordial duty of an alpha dog leader — helping one’s own.

    Barack Obama gave off an entirely different vibe on “Meet the Press.” His campaign has been in the doldrums for the past few months. He’s never come up with an explanation about how he would actually transform politics, and his conventional substance is beginning to overshadow his unconventional style.

    But, as Sunday’s contrast made clear, Obama still seems like a human being. He still seems to return each night to some zone of normalcy where personal reflection lives. He wasn’t fully candid when answering questions about the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, but there are some inner guardrails that prevent the spin from drifting too far from the truth. Thoughtful and conversational, he doesn’t seem to possess the trait that Clinton has: automatically assuming that critics are always wrong.

    Obama still possesses his talent for homeostasis, the ability to return to emotional balance and calm, even amid hysteria. His astounding composure has come across as weakness in the midst of combat with Clinton, but it’s also at the core of his promise to change politics. He vows to calm hatred and heal division.

    This contrast between combat and composure defines the Democratic race. The implicit Clinton argument is that politics is an inherently nasty business. Human nature, as she said Sunday, means that progress comes only through conquest. You’d better elect a leader who can intimidate. You’d better elect someone who has given herself permission to be brutal.

    Obama’s campaign grows out of the longstanding reform tradition. His implicit argument is that politics doesn’t have to be this way. Dishonesty and brutality aren’t inevitable; they’re what gets in the way. Obama’s friend and supporter Cass Sunstein described the Obama ideal in The New Republic: “Obama believes that real change usually requires consensus, learning and accommodation.”

    That’s regarded as naïve drivel in parts of Camp Clinton.

    Campaign issues come and go, but this is a thread running through the race. One believes in the raw assertion of power, the other the power of communication.

    They are imperfect messengers for their creeds. Clinton rails against “Wall Street money-grubbers,” but her policies are often drawn from the Wall Street wing of the party. Obama talks about postpartisan compromise in the abstract, but rarely in the particular.

    Still, amid the storms of the presidency, their basic worldviews would shape their presidencies. Obama is instinctively a conversationalist and community-mobilizer. Clinton, as she says, will fight and fight. If elected, she’ll have the power to take the Hobbesian struggle she perceives, and turn it into remorseless reality.

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