Over the past few weeks, we’ve watched with bemusement as Kanye West has gone from denying being gay to calling for heterosexuals to retake the rainbow to making the argument that saying, “That’s so gay,” is a total compliment. For all his embarrassing attempts to get it right gone wrong, we think Kanye’s broken, glowing heart is in the right place and he’s genuine about combating hip-hop’s homophobia. To serve as a counterpoint, we’ve collected information on some of the genre’s top offenders. If this were a hip-hop song, we’d say something about how their homophobia obviously comes from a lack of endowment, but this is a family site. Let’s meet the haters.
| Hip-Hop Homophobe | Hater-Cred | Why Else They Suck | Sample Lyric |
 Rick Ross |
An ongoing rivalry with 50 Cent in which the two create homophobic cartoons about each other. His lates, “Gay Unit Workouts”, would be more offensive were it not so idiotic. | Trying to be all badass by beating promoters up and hiding the fact he was once a prison corrections officer. | “Go on let ya top down/ fuck it blow a couple grand/ treat her like an animal / make her do a hand stand” |
 40 Glocc |
“I don’t like faggots. I don’t care if you a faggot. I don’t like you. I don’t like faggots! I don’t care if you a faggot or not! I just… That’s just my personal opinion. I don’t like faggots…” — Interview with Thisis50.com | Police consider him to be a part of the Colton City Crips gang and have an indictment out for him. |
“Met me a chick from ATL/ Thick as hell/ Names Channel/ She could tell from the status living well” |
 Trick Trick |
“I’m a go on the record right now with this. Homosexuals are… probably not gonna like this album. I don’t want your faggot money any goddamn way….It’s just that every time that you turn on the TV, that sissy shit is on and they act like its fucking okay.” — Interview with AllHipHop.com | Other than being signed to Eminem‘s label and saying some ignorant shit, nobody’s ever heard of him. |
“Holdin’ it down since I paroled up outta prison/ You heard about me, you just didn’t know it was me” |
 Eminem |
Famously defends his use of “fag” in his lyrics as meaning someone weak, not someone gay. Uh, right. | After four years of irrelevance, releasing a new album with an Elton John duet. |
“Your mother, you fuckin’ faggot / La da da, da da da, da da “ |
 Ja Rule |
“”We need to go step to MTV and Viacom, and lets talk about all these fucking shows that they have on MTV that is promoting homosexuality, that my kids can’t watch this shit. Dating shows that’s showing two guys or two girls in mid afternoon. Let’s talk about shit like that!” JaRule later said his comments were taken out of context. | He’s been charged with assaulting 50 Cent, though that’s not really such a bad thing. |
“How I cock spread hit ho’s love that shit, you celibate/ I’ll turn you into the freakest bitch” |
 50 Cent |
“I ain’t into faggots. I don’t like gay people around me, because I’m not comfortable with what their thoughts are. It’s OK to write that I’m prejudiced. This is as honest as I could possibly be with you…But women who like women, that’s cool.”– Interview with Playboy | His entire career is based on the fact he’s got nine bullet wounds and used to deal crack. |
“In the gym I see your ass up on the stair master / But you got it on level two, bitch go a little faster” |
| Hip-Hop Homophobe | Hater-Cred | Why Else They Suck | Sample Lyric |
anonymous
I thought Kanye said “that’s so gay” should be a compliment? Anyway, I like him.
Nice article, Japhy.
Sebbe
Isn’t hip-hop the worst performing (commercially speaking) music genre? I thought I read in Billboard (?) their sales have fallen harder and faster than any other genre in the last few years, something like down over 50 percent since 2000.
I’ve only heard of half of these people. I will say that Hip Hop artist were one of the first and most prolific to do cross marketing, which was a wise business decision on their part. Besides that, more of these dudes are just assholes.
blake
Aren’t half of these guys E-lister nobodies? 40 Glocc? Trick Trick?
Paul Raposo
After four years of irrelevance, releasing a new album with an Elton John duet.
As far as Elton John goes, that queen would sell his soul to the devil if it meant being famous forever.
blake
Japhy & Company,
How about eliminated racist comments 4,5, and 7?
gurlene
@Sebbe: A friend of mine who worked at circuit city on Broadway and 79th in NYC said they had a week were not one CD was bought. He said collectively not more than 200 cd’s were bought within any 2 month period regardless of genre. In the case of hip-hop the sales are worse than 50 percent. It is more like 65 percent. People simply are not buying them because it’s cheaper to just download the song you want instead of buying the whole cd.
There are guys who float up and down 125th street that make small fortunes selling bootleg cd’s with the latest hits of multiple artists for $5 a pop.
Regardless of what idiotic lyrics these losers put in their music they prosper thanks to the white/jewish owners of their labels and radio stations who play/promote their garbage.
And by the way. Many of the “fueds” between these rappers are arranged to promote the “battling” rap-stars themselves. The most sickening fued out there was between JayZ and 50cent which was designed more to get rid of the gay rumors both of them were facing. They were desperate and it worked. Though no one was stupid nor really cared for the most part.
Now that Johnny Cochran is no longer here to save their asses many have straitened up their acts to where they appear more like altar boys in a catholic church than rappers.
Darth Paul
@blake: How is 4 racist? Appealing to the authors is stupid, BTW. They don’t luuuuv you.
Ja Rule is a degenerate, no-talent midget and I hate him. Isn’t he Jehovah’s Witless?
Nick
^It was probably deleted, dumbass. Just like #7 will be.
Nick
Oh, and it was before I could even post my comment.
Krzyleo
I heard you talking the same old shit, come up with something new
Hating on gays because you’re probably the same fucking way
That’s why you crying because they won’t give you the time of day
So you cry out faggot hoping one of them will fuck you too
Mr. Enemabag Jones
Deleting comments now? How far we have come. I agree with Darth Paul, comment 4 is homophobic and I would like to see it removed.
Dishy
I’m still waiting for 50 Cent’s 10th bullet
gurlene
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: I worked at a peep shop in Hollywood back in the early 80’s right off of Hollywood Blvd and so help me god I can almost swear that was a then unknown Ice-T who used to frequent us. The same scowl. The same voice. The same facial features. He was cute and into white boys (at least the one I thinking was him was). Ice-T is smart and did strike you as a gangster and I am glad to see he used that image and made millions off of it and seems to have known how to invest it. I call him the Johnny Mathis of the rap world. If you notice he stays the hell away from those lunatics.
LLcoolJ not only knew he had a large on-the-down-low audience but also did not get rid of one of his “closest” advisers when he was threatend with exposure by multiple jealous rappers nor abandoned him as he was dying of AIDS and he seemed to have prospered quite well.
As soon as Arsenio Hall’s career started taking off his presence in the store dropped off as did Paul Mooney.
ifelicious
Whoa! The truth is in the comments more than the story. What a range of reactions. You bring up a good point that can’t be summed up in a chart, but it’s a good starting point for a needed discussion with hip hop fans who are also supportive of the gay community. Otherwise, hip hop alone is too easy for people to attack before even reaching the issue of sexuality.
blake
@Darth Paul:
Japhy deleted 3 comments that used the n-word and other racist epithets. Their deletion meant that other comments replaced their positions in the numbered list; in a nut shell, new comments took the place of former comments in the 4, 5, and 7 positions.
Hope that clears up the confusion.
Greg
As a gay man who has always been a fan of Eminem, I must say that too often his lyrics are extracted and taken out of context. His lyrics have been supportive of the gay community. He pokes fun at everyone equally, including himself, but no one ever extracts a more positive reference to gays. He is brilliant, and if you listen to an entire album, you will see he isn’t being cruel to gays, just mocking the state of American culture.
Pete
Half of these guys are gay themselves, and their homophobia is obviously a defense mechanism to hide their sexuality.
– Record industry insiders are well-aware of 50 Cent’s sexuality, and he’s been spotted at several down low events (along with Diddy).
– Wyclef and Snoop Dogg both receive or have received oral sex from other men. Whether this makes them gay or not is up to you.
– Rumors about Busta Rhymes have also flown around.
Chitown Kev
I would have a comment (and a surprising one coming from me!) about the n-word but never mind…
Most of Hip hop prior to N.W.A. (there I slipped in my critique!) is OK. I haven’t liked the s*** since then. The hardcore stuff is homophobic and racist.
rickroberts
I don’t even know who these people are. From the photos, they look like any number of street thugs we have right here in Atlanta. I would just as soon see all of them go colonize an island somewhere while the rest of us get on with the task of rebuilding our country. These fools don’t do anything productive. Instead, they pollute our environment with noise and general ugliness and add to the population of fools we will have to support.
Paul Raposo
Most of Hip hop prior to N.W.A. (there I slipped in my critique!) is OK.
Sadly, Chitown Kev, you and I might be in a minority regarding this point. Follow The Leader is still one of the greatest albums ever produced. Goddamn I miss the 80’s.
David Hauslaib
@blake: In the world of hip hop, these guys ARE somebodies. Kids listen them emphatically. Just because they aren’t in Us Weekly doesn’t mean they’re invisible.
@blake: The removal of comments is not always — or often — done by Queerty’s editors. Every user can flag offensive comments, which are then submitted for review by our team. It’s the readers that keep Queerty free of hate speech and encourage useful debate. Our Comments Policy can be reviewed here.
Chitown Kev
@Paul Raposo:
Yeah, Eric B and Rakim is NICE!
I just had a thought that most of the homophobia came from the West Coast contingent of the East Coast v. West Coast wars that started with NWA.
blake
@David Hauslaib:
I understand your point but I think that some of these guys are E-listers. Trick Trick is no Lil’ Wayne or T.I. or David Banner. I don’t think any of those three would appear in “US Weekly” either. Trick Trick, in particular, sounds like a desperate wannabe superstar who tried using homophobia to spark his career.
The executives at the record companies and at MTV Networks that publish and air the artists’ anti-gay and misogynist recordings are equally to blame. Why not also focus on those executives? They and their companies make millions by disseminating crap. What is the likelihood that Sony or Warners would publish a record with anti-Jewish lyrics? Could you imagine Motown Universal releasing a neo-Nazi rap tune that calls for the murder of Asians?
The media companies have as much culpability in the mass marketing of this crap as the artists. Why not publish the names and photos of some of those execs?
____
As for deleting the racist comments, thanks. I did flag the comments. I was very happy that Queerty instituted a comments policy and had pushed for that for some time.
kevin (not that one)
I would imagine you would find plenty of folks in the Rock world who have said and continue to say pretty much the same thing.
And let’s not even talk about the Reggae community.
I think there are probably a lot less homophobic people in the hip hop community than most people let on. Because the nature of hip hop is about repeating what you hear on the street, putting up a front and dissing people, I think we simply hear more homophobia in rap lyrics, just like we hear other profanities that are pretty vile on their surface.
It must be pointed out as well that “hip hop” incorporates a lot of styles and artists and it’s fair to say that the majority aren’t gangsta rappers.
kevin (not that one)
By the way, there is a queer hip hop community…it’s not all haters.
Deep Dickollective:
http://www.myspace.com/deepdickollective
NaR
http://www.myspace.com/hotnar
Artists from the HomoRevolution Tour
http://www.myspace.com/homorevolution
Paul Raposo
I just had a thought that most of the homophobia came from the West Coast contingent of the East Coast v. West Coast wars that started with NWA.
Good catch, Kev! Oddly, from NWA, Dre was the most anti-gay, even going so far as to claim Eazy-E became HIV+ because he was gay, long after the man had died. Then of course he takes M&M, who apparently was making positive music, according his his first producer from the original “My Name Is”, and convinces him to go with the style that we are all too familiar with today, after changing his name to Eminem to avoid legal problems with the Mars company.
Chitown Kev
@kevin (not that one):
True, there is an underground queer hip hop community and, of course, there are some highly successful mainstream hip hop artists that are very popular in queer communities (I am thinking primarily of Queen Latifah, though she doesn’t record much anymore).
But I will tell say this: the homophobia hear recording is mild compared to the underground rap scene. Few of those songs even make it to the radio but are popular in the hood, nevertheless…
Jonathan
Yo but can we also remember that there are many rappers who have, and do “get it right”, whether they are queer or not? For example the inventors of hip hop– Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaataa are both cited as embracing the gay community (hell, have you SEEN the Zulu Nation?!), perhaps because the culture arose from the B-Boy community… Kind of the DIY music scene that disco was at first, at lets not forget that before it was stolen by the WASPy media, disco was almost exclusively gay blacks and latinos.
Much of hip hop swagger has to do with doing your own thing, and there are numerous rappers who put this at odds with homophobia. The late great Pimp C is the first to come to mind.
Also, let’s not forget that there are a ton of DL rappers… I’m not saying I can confirm who any are but I got an ear to the game sometimes, ha…
nikko
Well sad, RICKROBERTS. Thugs like this are a waste of life and space. I don’t care what they are… just destructive and glamourizing criminal life is as vile and useless as one could get. Their very behaviour promote, or even begs, racism.
Alex Sarmiento
Even if Eminem weren’t homophobic, I’d still think of him as a honky white male douchebag. I hated him in his Slim Shady LP days, I DESPISED HIM in his Marshall Mathers LP days, I FUCKING WANTED TO KILL THE BITCH when he won that Oscar, and I still hate him with his “Crack a Bottle” shit. I also can’t stand that 50 Cent. The fact that he and Eminem are practically family is even worse. Hell, both Eminem and 50 Cent are reasons why, by and large, I avoid the hip-hop oeuvre. It doesn’t represent me or how I feel about the world today, and I’m saying that as someone who grew up in the hip-hop-influenced world of the San Francisco Bay Area. Hell, I don’t even like that douchebag bitch Kanye West. I think that he is arrogance personified. I won’t even listen to John Legend or Estelle because of him.
Chitown Kev
@nikko:
agreed COMPLETELY. Although I think it’s important to maintain that this is not all of hip-hop…
@Alex Sarmiento:
Yep. I was tuned in to hip hop ’til the late ’80’s (it even had a rather gay flavor to it then, as Jonathan points out…Kid-N-Play was hip-hop’s version of the Pet Shop Boys)
getreal
I love hip hop (music not necessarily the culture). That being said I think QUEERTY could have covered as a counterpoint the people of the hip hop who come out vocally AGAINST homophobia. Kanye West who for all his ill-advised verbal stumbling has a posse that is about 70% gay and called on hip hop to “stop hatin on gays, I like gays” “stop homophobia it’s whack”or Mary J blidge who said “I don’t trust a man who is homophobic and i don’t want one around me. What is wrong with you that you need to hate gays. I don’t want hate around me I want love” She fired an unnamed member of her entourage because of their homophobia (She referenced it in an interview). Even Diddy who spent many years promoting Farnsworth Bentley who is as gay 3 3 dollar bills. The common thread between these homophobes is they all are uneducated and came from economically deprived circumstances. When you look at people who are college educated and come from middle class backgrounds like Diddy you don’t see the ignorant hateful rhetoric.
getreal
Oh and Eminem has the biggest record in the country which on it’s way to being the most downloaded song of all time. H
e hasn’t even put out the rest of his album and the song has only been out a few weeks.
A jerk yes Irrelevant no.
Darth Paul
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: I never said 4 was homophobic. In fact, it’s quite apt and funny.
Anonymous
This is a result of their advanced age and church attendence, not their race.
Chitown Kev
@getreal:
“The common thread between these homophobes is they all are uneducated and came from economically deprived circumstances.”
Yep. That was the thing about early hip hop, that was really from the black middle class kids in Jamaica, Queens and not the gangsta/thug culture from the inner city. Heck, hip hop wasn’t even that popular in the ‘hood back in the day, it began to blossom among the black middle class into the mainstream. There were a lot of white kids in my high school walking around the hallways rapping Grandmaster Flash’s “The Message” (which does use the f-word a couple of times, to be honest).
Pragmatist
I’m amused by 50 Cent’s comment that he’s uncomfortable around homosexuals because he’s “not comfortable with what their thoughts are.”
I’m pretty sure he’s got nothing to worry about there…
blake
@nikko:
“Their very behaviour promote, or even begs, racism.”
Wow! Talk about a completely ignorant comment. So, if a white male said something homophobic, should that “promote” or “beg” anti-white racism? Would the misdeeds of a few gay people be justification for homophobia? Plenty of straight people do so already. Right?
It’s also convenient how you ignore Eminem’s homophobia. Why does his homophobia have nothing to do with his race? Most of the leaders of the anti-gay movement in the U.S. are white. Who were the leaders behind the Yes on 8 campaign? Who leads the American Family Association?
Chitown Kev
@blake:
are you talking about “race” or “culture”? With Eminem they are 2 totally different things.
Chitown Kev
@blake:
I don’t think he is ignoring Eminem in this, to be fair.
And while Eminem isn’t a “redneck”, really, redneck culture is pretty homophobic.
rigs
Ignorant bastids, its got nothing to do with race obv. since there are just as many white haters out there. It’s just a shame that such a large section of the black community (the Hip Hop section) couldn’t have actually learned from their leaders like Coretta SCott King on homosexuals. Oh well fuck them!
Chitown Kev
@rigs:
yeah, but black communities alone cannot make a 50 Cent or an Eminem a star. Try that on somewhere else.
TJ
Reading about rappers & how homophobic they are always brings the phrase “He who douth protest…” to mind.
HOMOPHOBIC RAPPER FUN FACT: Ja Rule (back when he was relevant) was well known for his love of the drug Ecstacy. He would drop 4-5 pills at a time & turn into a gang bang power bottom for all the DL thugz.
Chitown Kev
@TJ:
LOL. I have never been sure how much of a fact that is, but I’ve heard that…
Now, they did have this discussion pertaining to homophobia and misogyny in heavy metal back in the 80’s and 90’s. And heavy metal is largely perceived as being a “white thing” and an extension of “white culture” even if that was very rarely explicitly stated.
blake
@Chitown Kev:
The implication from Nikko’s writing is about justifying anti-black racism.
As for Eminem, he is a white American man. He may participate in elements of a segment of African-American culture but he also participates and benefits from being part of the white-American culture.
Eminem’s success is predicated in many ways on his ability to be a stand in for white youths who want to identify and participate in Hip Hop. He’s a more sincere Elvis or Pat Boone, who turned 1950s black “race” music into acceptable culture for the white middle class.
What’s also not taking place here is a separation of Hip Hop and rap from “gangsta rap,” the subgenre to which all of these artists belong. Kanye West is a rapper but he is obviously not a participant of the gangsta style.
Also, we should be clear that Hip Hop culture is not “black culture” any more than Rock culture is “white culture.” You will find Hip Hop artists and cultural contributors across the world.
Rob
My question is: what is the point of this whole post? I mean, have any new incidents of homophobia happened, and besides that Trick Trick person (who tried to use homophobia to boost his nonexistent sales), most of these people haven’t been relevant for years. In fact, I did a posting about Trick Trick on another gay blog (3 months ago) where I at least highlighted the openly gay rappers (there are some, and I guess they’re about as known as he is) who publicly took him to task. I just don’t see what the point of this post is other than to drive anti hip-hop hysteria and to bring the gay-kk’ers out of the woodwork with nasty racist comments. I mean, are we breaking any news here, or is Queerty just throwing a bone around here to the racist element that looks for any excuse to hate on blacks and/or hip hop?
Chitown Kev
@blake:
Well, and Mary J. Blige I would consider to be a part of hip hop culture but she is not a rapper. I wouldn’t even put Eminem in the “gangsta rap” category. So yeah, I agree, they need to get the genre thing straight.
Hip hop culture, though, is an outgrowth of black American culture at it’s origins in the late 70’s. It is no longer a black American thing.
I will say this…I have a heavy class bias as far as this is concerned. If you don’t want anybody to call you a “n-word” then don’t refer to yourself or your homies as that word. I think this promotes some of the most degrading stereotypes of black Americans (just as some country music and certain metal promotes some pretty degrading stereotypes of “redneck” culture).
It’s sad because gay people (of all races) do have a documented history of being among the biggest supporters of black music.
rogue dandelion
@Chitown Kev:
this isn’t all of hiphop? who other than Kanye(his heart probably in the right place) currently even approaches a counter example?
blake
@Chitown Kev:
Rock is also an outgrowth of African-American culture.
Also, I totally disagree with your stance on the n-word. While I don’t think anyone should refer to another person as an n-word, it’s ridiculous to say that because blacks use it, whites should be able to a call black people that.
As vile as the word may be, when used amongst African-Americans, it’s racist and white supremacist intent is usually missing. That is not the same for most non-African descended people.
Also, while gay people of “all races” may be consumers of black music that does not make gay people free of racism. A look at so-called gay American culture will reveal that there it is a microcosm of our society, with all of the good and bad that implies, like a long history of segregation in gay night clubs for instance.
Chitown Kev
@blake:
Of course I know that rock is derived from African American culture. Just as Hip hop isn’t a black thing” anymore (that mighht be more true overseas than here, though)
Hey, if black Americans use it, knowing what the history of the term is, you’re inviting people to use it far as I am concerned. That’s why I don’t allow anybody (black or white) to use that word in referring to me. I could give a flying f*** about the context.
I never said or even meant to imply that an affinity for black culture made gay people free of racism, but they do support the music, that was my only claim.@rogue dandelion:
Read post #31.
Ben
because queerty just loooves to focus on the negatives…
Chitown Kev
Now I will say this…
Homophobia has grown exponentially in hip hop since the East Coast/West Coast schism that began in the late 80’s (I haven’t followed hip hop since the start of those wars, is that dead yet?), before that hip hop did have kind of a gay feel to it.
Mister C
Oh girls GIVE IT A REST…
As it’s wrong for them to say those offensive lyrics. It was just as wrong on NOV 5 when white gays were calling all Blacks gay and straight NI@@ERS and other epithets because of mis-information of Prop 8. Lets face it wrong is wrong!
If we’re going to carry on about this. Then we need to practice what we preach! Truth be told whenever post like these are posted you girls come out of the WOOD WORKS!
WERK IT OUT!
Chitown Kev
@Mister C:
Jeez, it all gets back to that day which will live in infamy, doesn’t it?
Chitown Kev
@Mister C:
Meh. 2 pro-gay black governors, 2 states with marriage equality, it will probably get through the legislature in New Jersey, with black and white activists taking prominent roles.
Prop 8 seems to be more of a California problem to me, the East Coast is plodding along just fine.
blake
In reflection, I think this post was pretty lame. Hasn’t the “homophobia in Hip Hop/rap” been explored a gazillion times? What new information was discussed here?
Instead, why not interview some people, gay and straight, about their feeling about the music, their participation in the culture. There are some great music sites where you could get the opinions and examples. Why not interview the editors of Racialicious.com, a blog that surveys race, gender, and sexuality in pop culture? Couldn’t you use Skype or some other video chat platform to record interviews and make them available?
One thing that I do appreciate about Queerty is that unlike Towleroad, for instance, Queerty does at least generate content. Japhy and company do write original articles and do try involve readers in discussing issues. So, hats off to Japhy, Cord, and David in that regards.
The Gay Numbers
It would be nice to see a similar type chart from rock and country. It’s easy to go after the other minority than those who may look like you.
The Gay Numbers
PS- The prior comment is not to condon the homophobic bigots in the hip hop community. It is , however, quite clear that there is a double standard by which you don’t examine white groups under quite the same microscope you examine blacks.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Yeah, I was just reading a very similar story to this about heavy metal in 80’s.
http://www.afterelton.com/archive/elton/music/2005/8/metal2.html
Sebbe
Chitown Kev – Agree, we northeastern are moving forward (maybe not fast enough) but at least forward quite nicely. Probably has something to do with the fact that there are none of these mega church crazy evangelical people here. To the majority of people, the New England attitude is, doesn’t affect them, let the gays to what they want and shut the fuck up so we can work on the real problems. Connecticut, was a prime example, barely a peep, couple articles in the regional papers, it did make the nightly news!! Then nothing, life goes on, we still have to balance our state budget (luckily many of our states also have healthy rainy day funds) and go on. I predict at this rate New England and then the tri-state area (CT (check), NJ, NY) will be the first complete region to have full equality.
Most here are only focused on what will happen eventually at the Federal level and our neighboring states, not whats going on over in la la land.
2nd (no at Kev) – These states that have citizens initiatives are crazy, look them up there are almost all out in the wild west. In the East most states ask their citizens if there should be a constitutional convention every 20 or 30 years. The answer is generally a resounding no.
@The Gay Numbers – I am offended because I am white that I must look like a rocker or country singer. LOL (but seriously I don’t, hehe)
Chitown Kev
@Sebbe:
yeah, we voted down the constitutional convention here in Illinois last year, with the former Republican governor coming out against it.
We have a gay marriage bill that is going through committee in the General Assembly, so we’ll see what happens there. In the meantime, the other protections we have are OK, with those cheesy little domestic partnerships. Still, a lot of those ballot initiatives outlawed marriage, civil unions, and domestic partnerships (i.e. Florida and Michigan)
Truthteller
@Greg: Thanks for your insight from the back of the short bus. Now we know who’s out there eating shit and calling it sex. You sick fuck. Buy a clue. Eminem hates you almost as much as you hate yourself.
Sebbe
Ballot Initiatives are almost never a good idea. Not just in regards to this, but everything. I do not feel it is the best way to change the law for the better or for the worse. It is pure populism, not democracy. We are a liberal democracy, where in theory, the rights of the minority are protected by definition.
There was also a question whether to have a “ConCon” in Connecticut on election day. 60% said no. Case closed.
getreal
@TJ: Actually I live in LA and he never goes anywhere without his wife married very young is actually a closet fundamentalist christian.
getreal
@The Gay Numbers: AMEN!!!!!
getreal
@Chitown Kev: Exactly It is important to note that this gangsta style hip hop is a relatively newish phenomenon and comes out the ghetto where people tend to be more homophobic than in middle class black communities. It does also bear mentioning that I have heard rumors for years about 50 cent being a “homo thug”.
Captain Freedom's Workout
50 Cent got shot 9 nines… Apparently that was not enough.
If all these people died in a car accident I think America’s collective IQ would go up four points.
gkruz
@Paul Raposo:
Well, he accepted a knighthood, that’s close enough.
SBK
I’m a little surprised that nobody in the gay community has ever gotten upset about the lyrics in Lil Wayne’s song Go DJ, “all you faggot niggas getting AIDS up yo ass.” I was hoping that this article would address that.
Sebbe
@SBK – I doubt any of the gays I know (and a large percentage in general) are aware of any of his lyrics at all (i.e. myself). Wouldn’t be able to pick him out walking down the street (or on teevee) either.
vernonvanderbilt
While I certainly think it’s good to know who’s against us, it seems like we give them a lot more publicity on this site than the people who are for us and aren’t named Kanye.
Also, the rap world is a pretty easy target, to be honest, and it does come across as an indirect racial thing. You could have gotten just as much content, and probably more quality content, by extending the chart to include musicians from all genres.
I listen to some hip-hop. I’m not a huge fan of most of the mainstream stuff, but there are certain artists whose work I enjoy. I wouldn’t call myself an enthusiast, though, meaning I’m not incredibly familiar with a lot of the artists above beyond knowing their names. The ones from the list that I do know a little more about are not people I would choose to listen to even if I were a ‘phobe. I just don’t think they produce quality music.
I like old school soul and funk better anyway. All these people can manage is sampling it in their music.
I’d encourage our dear Japhy to follow this up with a list of hip-hop allies, and then perhaps consider opening the discussion to include other genres of music. Black folks and queer folks have pretty much given us all music that has any merit anyway. Straight, white people…well, they gave us Pat Boone.
Sebbe
@vernonvanderbilt – Straight, white people…well, they gave us Pat Boone. LOL LMFAO
The Gay Numbers
@vernonvanderbilt: Well, but it makes for more comments to make it a black versus gay thing. It’s less interesting to say that “hey, the guy who looks your dad maybe a bigot” than the dangerous coloreds (I mean African Americans). No, but seriously, as I said above- I completely agree. I am a black guy. I love country music. But, there are a lot of homophobic bigots in country music. So, when I read the stuff about hip hop- I got to laugh. I always think, “Okay yeah, there’s bigotry, but compared to what.” The white country music singer who will just think we are subhuman while smiling at us and talking about how it’s just a matter of God and country?
Mister C
UMMMM The Gay Numbers
Boo, Listen to country radio and let a convo come up in reference to Gays. You won’t see the love AT ALL, However you will here DAMNATION from a predominately WHITE listening audience. But the real logic here is this. It’s very easy to run after rappers who are primarily black use their rhetoric to call them homophobic. But they’ll leave country, and rock artists alone who does the same and their White. It’s all DAMN hypocritical if you ask me.
Some of you are prejudice and some of them are homophobic
badda bing badda boo
Can’t Have it both way kids!
Mister C
I meant they’re white
sparkle obama
this story is lame.
what is wrong with the editor?
he has ISSUES.
getreal
@The Gay Numbers: Good point.
mb00
Who listens to all that bull shit music too anyway? I mean, aside from like wanna be thugs. I’ll take my music tough and raw…as in Punk, not about skanky girls on stairmasters.
Mister C
And they talk about Gays negatively also MB00 tough and raw!
The Gay Numbers
The reality is that we live in a culture that is only now starting to have a real discussion about how gays are viewed. That means every music genre out there is going to have some open and closeted homophobia. The problem is that the issue is , again, more controversial to say blacks versus gays. It gets us here debating it. Whereas a post on country music with white artists versus gays may have gotten 5 or 6 comments.
alan brickman
it’s still called freedom of speech whether I disagree with it or not…
Cee
Queerty, you need to add rapper “Common” to the list. You know the one dating tennis player, Serena Williams. He is real homophobic. He should be at the top of the list. Nobody should really care what their opinion is on homosexuality or anything for that matter. They are all uneducated and of no substance. They all have some ghetto hood story and there’s nothing original about where they came from, how they were brought up, etc. Rick Ross is just a joke. His ex did an interview with 50 cent about how much of a loser he is. She said this whole rap thing is fake basically and he didn’t act that way when he was a correctional officer. When he got into the rap game he tried to hide money so he would not have to pay more child support. Then he came and took her car out of spite, even though she uses that car to get their kids around. LOSER.
Distingué Traces
Unfortunately, I do not agree that Kanye West’s heart is in the right place.
Common has been fairly brave in working through his homophobia in public. The gay verse of “Between Me, You, and Liberation”:
He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled
A lump in his throat, his fear built
My whole life it was in steel
This ain’t the way that men feel
A feeling, he said he wish he could kill
A feeling, not even time could heal
This is how real life’s supposed to be?
For it to happen to someone close to me?
So far we’d come, for him to tell me
As he did, insecurity held me
I felt like he failed me
To the spirit, yelled help me
I’d known him for like what seemed forever
About going pro we dreamed together
Never knew it would turn out like this
For so long he tried to fight this
Now there was no way for him to ignore it
His parents found out and hated him for it
How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him
No longer he said had he hated himself
Through sexuality he liberated himself
Between me and you
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Maybe. Unless, of course, the country artist in question is Kenny Chesney. That discussion will get MANY posts.
And to be fair, there have been studies (such as the one I provided the link too above) of other music genres. But the hip hop/gangsta rap angle is getting to be an old and tired one.
getreal
@Cee: I don’t believe you that Common is a homophobe I’m a fan of his and i have NEVER heard or red anything like that.
Chitown Kev
@Cee:
In Common’s case it’s a very past tense thing. He was homophobic, was called on it, and made a pledge in 2007 to quit the dumb shit. He’s not on the list for a reason. Cee needs to do about 2 minutes of googling!
getreal
@Chitown Kev: Thanks!
Mister C
And make sure you add ALL OF COUNTRY AND ROCK to the damn list can’t forget your WHITE HOMOPHOBES!
Queens kill me with this SH^T
Some of you are gays are prejudice and some of them (rappers)are homophobic
badda bing badda boo
Can’t Have it both way kids!
GET THE F^CK OVER IT ALREADY!
Rigato
Hey, black and white rappers are some of the most vocal homophobes in the United States. Don’t forget hypocritical, misogynistic, and uneducated. Calling women bitches and hoes? Half the women I know would slap their asses back to the fifth grade if they heard that shit.
We should stop our kids listening to this stuff, not because of the violence, but because it promotes women as nothing but sex toys, makes it appear like dealing crack is a GOOD thing, and encourages the use of racial/homophobic slurs. N****r and f****t, anyone?
It surprises me the black community is so quick to forget their own struggles with civil rights.
I wonder how they would react if I went around saying “I just dont like n****rs. No, I don’t want their n****r money. I can’t get more honest than that.” I’d probably get shot.
That gives me an idea…
Why don’t we finish the job on 50 Cent the right way? Aim for the head.
Jeremyrh2387
Well more than half of them I never even heard of and never will hear of. 50 cent is just dumb and if he had half a brain he would realize it! Maybe he was shot in the head once and that is why he doesn’t think about what he is saying!
Rigato
By the way, the Rock and Roll genre has been a HELL of a lot more supportive of gay and lesbian people over the years. A lot of famous band members were gay, and they were supported by their bandmates.
So you have to concede that point, Mister C.
Country…I’ll give you that. Bunch of rednecks.
The Gay Numbers
@Rigato: How the hell can you even make the comment about rock and roll? there is no way to prove what you re saying. My point about mentioning rock and country is not to put down either or say there are not supporters, but to point og the silliness of a diary focused on hip hop as somehow the only homophobic type of music out there. I mean- listened to metal much?
Mister C
And to add to that The Gay Numbers: UMMM Rigato: Rob Halford was the only metal rock person to come out and Judas Priest at first was like OH NO…And the fan base felt the same. Only to accept things later because things wasn’t the same without him. However they still lost a lot of fans due to homophobia. And I don’t recall Aerosmith, G&R,Blink 182, Good Charlotte playing any Gay prides lately. And we never can forget good ol’ Sebastian Bach of the now defunct “Skid Row” who said AIDS KILLS FAGS DEAD!
And as far as The B^TCHES thing. NO it isn’t right nor accepted. However, this orginated from rock and porn with white porn stars and Rock music denegrated women for years….you know the “dingy blonde” syndrome, etc.
And Rigato as for you saying this “I just dont like n****rs. No, I don’t want their n****r money.” You’re right you can’t get no more honest than that. So maybe you need not worry about the Black community since you don’t like us.
Like I said before and I’ll say it again. Some of you are gays are prejudice and some of them (rappers)are homophobic…PLAIN AND SIMPLE Don’t buy it! and every black man does not consider a black woman, or any woman a bitch and a hoe. It’s certain group within the race just like within the white community lower class whites call their girls the same damn thing. But I guess you never see that either!
Clean your own damn kitchen before cleaning ours!
anonymous
Who cares? This discussion is a waste of time.
Chitown Kev
@Rigato:
What “black community” are you talking about?
Chitown Kev
@Cee:
Interesting that you mention the Serena Williams connection. As many gay fans as Serena Williams (being a tennis champion and all) has and as much as she loves to shop, I would go so far as to even say that Serena may have had something to do with Common’s change in tune.
Sebbe
@Chitown Kev – I think you are right about Serena. I was pondering the same thing. Doesn’t she also have a flat in Paris where she spends her off time. Really whats gayer than La Ville-Lumière.
Idea
@Mister C:
@The Gay Numbers:
Um what? He’s right Rock music has been more supportive of gays and lesbians than hip hop has ever.
Pete Wentz is a bisexual and talked about it for a bit, in the 90s Kurt Cobain from Nirvana brought up homophobia every once in awhile and in his CDS he wrote “if you hate women, blacks or gays, please don’t listen to my music”, Green Day brought Pansy Division with gay, sometimes pornographic lyrics to open for them on their tour (also in the 90s), David Bowie came out as bisexual in the 70s or 80s (though he later rescinded on that), Guns N Roses guitarist Slash/Foo Fighters’ Dave Grohl are two that openly support gay marriage and Cyndi Lauper is a major supporter of gay rights overall.
You can barely name 5 hip hop artist who can match up to this, and no “Kanye West” who uses stereotypes to justify what he’s saying is not one.
Idea
Also I’m not even sure how this became a racial thing when MnM is a pretty vocal white homophobe in hip hop.
Sebbe
I don’t follow hip hop, but does Eminem even work anymore?
Idea
@Sebbe:
Um he just had a No #1 hit on the billboard not too long ago, so yes he is kinda.
Sebbe
@Idea – He hasn’t put an album out in a long time though has he (like 5 years of something)? Is he supposedly working on one I presume then if he had that single?
Just wondering, like I said above, I don’t really follow hip hop or rap?
Chitown Kev
@Idea:
Personally, I said heavy metal and not rock. That should have been specified. Just as hip hop would be a subgenre of soul music
I don’t follow hip hop as of late, so I couldn’t answer this question. as I stated, when hip hop was coming almost exclusively from the East Coast, homophobia wasn’t even an issue in hip hop (at that time metal was the homophobic genre). It’s this illiterate West Coast gangsta shit that you are talking about.
And do give props please to Chicago style house music too, some of the gayest music ever made. That comes from “the black community” too.
Sebbe
@Chitown Kev- I miss the east coast stuff from when i was a kid. Bring it back!! West coast, never got into, then or now, can’t relate.
I’m to young, but wasn’t the ChiStyle like the original house?
The Gay Numbers
@Idea: You are cherry picking. I don’t respond to cherry picking by pretending we are having a real conversation. I’ll talk to you when you aren’t cherry picking. Right, now, you just gave me a reason to ignore you.
The Gay Numbers
@Chitown Kev: The problem is they are once again cherry picking to prove their narrow view of the world. So when you start to get specific about asking them “which music genre” and pesky questions about race, they are at a lost to really defend it without further picking out of examples that prove their point while ignoring any counter examples. This is why I brought up other genres, mostly of the white variant, that clearly has had problems with us gays. The point is not that all did (any more than all hip hop artists did) but that it was acceptable and a part of the industry. Rather than responding with you know that’s true, it’s all bad, we read instead that hip hop is worse than anything else, and there were people who were not homophobic in the subgenres. In other words, black folks bad, whites better on the moral scale. Thus, why I laugh when I read posts by Queerty like this. They simply are designed to gain attention, and not reflect reality.
The Gay Numbers
Incidentally, as a follow up, as a guy who loves country and rock (I am less a fan of a hip hop- but I do like some old school) it’s also funny to read these comments about women (and let me add what’s missing) but not about also race , and how it has been treated by other musics. I don;t think any of this is particularly great from any sub genre. Some of it has been bad, some of it not. It’s been a mixed bag as far as I can remember from a lot of music. It’s the singling out that’s amusing to me.
Chitown Kev
@Sebbe:
Yep, straight (not!) from the now closed Warehouse. DJ Miss Frankie Knuckles, Farley Jackmaster Funk…the whole 9 yards. Then you have Detroit style with Kevin Saunderson and Inner City (?)(Big Fun, Good Life…)…
@The Gay Numbers:
Essentially, it is correct that metal is better as far as homophobia (Kurt Cobain and Nirvana is grunge, another subgenre of rock)than it used …but you are right, I don’t think Idea wants to hear that.
Idea
@The Gay Numbers:
lol what? Excuse you I’m a black gay man who happens to like a variety of music including a little hip hop. How am I cherry picking? I gave you a few examples to counter your pathetic assertion that rock had as few as people for glb people than hip hop did.
If anything you’re the one cherry picking using metal to bash the entirety of rock music.
Oh and I noticed you didn’t answer my question about Hip Hop artist against homophobia, but I’ll go ahead and throw out Dolly Paron, Garth Brooks, Wille Nelson (a popular 76 year old Country artist that made a gay song for Brokeback Mountain) and The Dixie Chicks for Country.
@Chitown Kev:
Well first you wouldn’t choose soul music since hip hop came from Disco/Dub (a Wes Indies genre) and a few other things. Hip Hop isn’t really seen as a subgenre since it’s developed it’s own unique standing but I understand your point. The reason Mteal isn’t talked about as much anymore is probably because its been knocked out of the mainstream.
Idea
*Metal
*that rock had as few as people for glb people as hip hop did.
@Chitown Kev:
O rly? I like how you play the victim when I never referred to you in the first place. He specifically said Rock and I responded accordingly.
Chitown Kev
@Idea:
Yeah, I was a little uncomfortable with putting hip hop under soul music, nevertheless, you do have to distinguish the east coast stuff from the west coast stuff (the misogyny was always there,though). East Coast hip hop is not homophobic at all (not even Miami-based 2 Live Crew was homophobic). More often,it says nothing at all and even has a gay vibe to it (e.g. Will Smith took his gay vibe to the bank.)
Notice that Jay-Z isn’t up there, by the way. They don’t do that homophobia bit in Bed-Sty too much.
Chitown Kev
@Idea:
I know you didn’t, and I am not playing the victim here at all, I’m the first to call west-coast style hip hop and gangsta rap stupid, illiterate, and ghetto. But do make the proper distinctions and don’t throw the entire genre into the homophobic category.
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
well, let me back track, very little east coast rap is homophobic.
Idea
I would say Jay-Z is a bit homophobic too though he doesn’t bother me much. Subtle lines like:
“Boom Bye Bye like Buju I’m crucial” in Brooklyn (We Go Hard) and a few other lines in some other songs.
And this one that calls people faggots:
http://www.lyricsondemand.com/j/jayzlyrics/niggawhatniggawhooriginator99lyrics.html
Idea
@Chitown Kev:
Oh I don’t I usually mean a specific vein since there is stuff lile ~homohop~ and gay rappers at places like outhiphop.com.
Chitown Kev
OK, I’ll give you Jay-Z although that stuff is older than some of Common’s stuff…
Jay
i personally think they’re all probably crazy bottoms in the closet.
Mike
Great piece. I still like Kanye.. even if he is an idiot.
The Gay Numbers
@Idea: Why do you think your race excuses your ignorance?
The structure of your arguments are illogical. Here’s an analogy: Your argument is like me saying well there are no Christian homophobes because I can cite Christians who are gay friendly. In both cases, the problem is that you are using a subset to define the entire group. Logically speaking, this is a no-no for those interested in thinking in a way that’s not bigoted.
The cherry picking is where you cite the gay friendly example to somehow claim the point about homophobia existing in country and rock for all. On the other hand, you cite the bigotry in hip hop as a way for seeing hip hop. Your first claim was something you could not prove- how much homophobia has existed over time in each genre.
I don’t cite the homophobic examples in rock or country to say that all rock or country is unfriendly to gays. I cite it to bring into question the idea that we can single out the issue of homophobia in hip hop without understanding it’s place in our culture in general.
Honestly, this is like discussing race and religion with regard to prop 8. When i point out that race is correlative, but relgion is causation, many such as yourself will probably have no clue why this matters. It matters for understanding whether we are having an honest discussion or one based on our own prejudices. if we understand that music of all types have homophobia in it, we can identity and address that issue. if we pretend it’s just the blacks, then we create an illusion that does not solve the underlying problem. The dishonest argument propetuates rather than decrease the chances for homophobia to flourish because we are not addressing the root causes.
Only those that fit our prejudices. By the way, returning to race being correlative versus religion- this is a good example of what I mean. if we go in thinking of race as the cornerstone this will mean a certain response, but if we understand it to be fundamentalist Christian thought- then we see another type of solution as useful.
Of course, that’s assuming that people want a solution.
The Gay Numbers
As a practical example- I keep using states were there are insignificant black populations to ask- why then do these states consistently vote against gay rights of all forms? Are all these people listening to hip hop too, or is it something culturally, including in the music, that promotes the idea that there is something wrong with being gay? This all would require deeper thought. A lyric that says “fag” may be offensive, but there are ways to say the exact same thing without ever saying the word “fag.” Do you ever think about in what ways this occurs? I doubt it. As someone pointed out, in country music, as the Dixie Chicks will tell you, one is limited in the range of subject matter in recent times. It gets complicated in terms of populist economic issues for older country music (that tended to be more political militant on economic issues at least). but the idea that these music types are anymore receptive of gays is a joke. And, it’s not just country. this truth is found across genre. Do you really think that there would be so many white homophobes if the music they listened to was so accepting of gays? Again, citing the reality of how people actually think versus what is resported by white gays to each other.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Good pts.,Gay Numbers. That’s why I keep coming back to the question of genres and subgenres of music, the economic class and the regions out of which these genres originate.
And things like this are important in a larger sense.
The moment I brought up the east coast v. west coast paradigm, I began to think of Prop 8. Perhaps if there is a ballot initiative in 2010 (lets hope the Cali Supremes take care of that during the next 3 months, though) maybe those who are running the campaign can hire a sociologist or an anthropologist or something.
I get the impression that there is no true black middle class but in extremely small and isolated pockets in California. I mean, I heard some of the stuff coming from the churches there, and they seem to be much more that old time Southern religion than the ones I am accustomed too.
Chitown Kev
To finish my thought, yes, you need to know what you are dealing with out there, but don’t asssume that’s how it for “the black community” in other regions and across economic lines.
Idea
@The Gay Numbers:
“The structure of your arguments are illogical. Here’s an analogy:”
That’s not analogical at all. No one said Country or Rock wasn’t homophobic you were trying to say it was the same as hip hop, and I gave examples countering. A better analogy would be comparing two religions or subsets on open support for lgb people.
For example Mormons vs. Episcopalians.
“The cherry picking is where you cite the gay friendly example to somehow claim the point about homophobia existing in country and rock for all. On the other hand, you cite the bigotry in hip hop as a way for seeing hip hop.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
“Your first claim was something you could not prove- how much homophobia has existed over time in each genre.”
That’s ridiculous. Some music genres are less homophobic (or even racist*) than others and just because you can’t measure it on a scale or something similar doesn’t mean no difference exist.
Pop/Disco/Dance music is usually more friendly towards gay artist than any other music genre, while Dancehall/Metal has called for the killing of glbt people.
I agree we should focus on homophobia in general and not go down these useless narrow paths but pretending that everything is the same is silly.
*Like Metal. I’d doubt you’d see as many skinheads listening to hip hop than some form highly aggressive rock music (though they do exist).
“I don’t cite the homophobic examples in rock or country to say that all rock or country is unfriendly to gays.”
Neither do I for Hip Hop.
“Do you ever think about in what ways this occurs?”
Yes.
“Do you really think that there would be so many white homophobes if the music they listened to was so accepting of gays?”
Yes. They can easily pick it up elsewhere. I never heard anything about glbt people (or any subtle jabs to them) in music I listened to and still came out with homophobic thoughts later on. While I believe music matters alot – religion/gender roles, peers/parents/role models can make more of difference.
Though I don’t think those genres (Country especially) mentioned are all that more accepting I personally think there’s a difference as I’ve said before.
“Why do you think your race excuses your ignorance? ”
The only ignorant person I see here is you.
P.S Stop putting words in my mouth.
BunchOfFives
Interestingly there seems to be a lot of mention of the heavy metal genre’s homophobia, but very few examples…
I have listened to metal for many many years, and I the only examples of homophobia in lyrics that I can think of off the top of my head go back to the late 80s I think.
It’s easy to bash the outcast genre, (although seems kind of hypocritical to me), perhaps a bit of actual research so you could site an example or two?
Chitown Kev
@BunchOfFives:
Check out my post and link at #58. My only point was this same discussion of metal took place in the late 80’s but metal, as a genre, seems to have changed (I don’t listen to metal nowadays, so I am not sure).
The reason it came up is that I share the concern of other posters that all of “hip-hop” is being unfairly targeted in a matter that can lead easily into racism. Some of the posters, including myself, have tried to provide some balance by pointing out that
1) Much of this is “gangsta rap”, a sub-genre of hip-hop and not reflective of hip-hop as a whole.
2) Providing some historical, regional, and socio-economic context context-most gangsta rap comes from west coast black ghettos, hip hop that came from the east coast black middle class communities was (and is) not a homophobic genre at all.
I also introduced house music as a very popular, firecely pro-gay genre of dance music that comes from black communities…again, to provide a balance to those who really seem to think that the illiterate, uneducated, gangsta shit from Compton and Watts is reflective of “the black community.” (whatever the hell that is!)
Matt
There is worse garbage being printed on Archive.org by people claiming they’re morally superior to us all, gay people and rappers alike. I just did a quick search:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=homosexuality
Can you imagine being a questioning teenager on that otherwise great site and finding these disgusting sermons published with no keywords like Homophobia, Psuedoscience, etc? Supposedly it’s all about freedom of speech — on Archive and in the rap community — but when does someone take a stand: after some rapper kills a gay fan (and they obviously exist) at a concert, or a faith-based disciple after a Scott Lively preaching?
The Gay Numbers
@Idea:
a) I love when people tell me what I am trying to say. My words said what I am saying. Cut and paste where I say the levels are the same. My argument is that I have no clue what levels are each genre. That’s your argument. Not mine. I would never pretend to know like you do how much homophobia exists in each genre. What I said was that white gays fixate on hip hop as if it’s the only homophobic music. I am now adding that not only do they do that, but they tend to lump it all together under hip hop as if gangsta rap is the same as Concious rap. Re-read what I wrote. You will see I am now repeating myself because you didn’t understand it the first time.
Your analogy is flawed because religious group within each sect will follow some doctrinal belief. There is no doctrinal approach here. Perhaps, that’s the problem. You think there is. I look at neither hip hop, country or rock like that. This is why I would never argue what you claim I am arguing. I will admit hip hop bores me because its commericialism does not allow for any creativity, but the idea that it’s like a religion even as an analogy is a stretch in terms of providing us with a greater understanding of culture.
b) I am glad you can link to strawman. Too bad, you don’t understand it’s meaning. Cherry picking in which you are making an argument that the part represents the whole is not a strawman. No more than my saying that parts of country and rock equates to your claim that I am saying it all is. This is a simple question of logical construction. Either you realize when I say some A are X, that does not mean I am saying all A are X or you do not. Either you realize that saying some H is X does mean you get to argue all H is X or you do not. Again, logical construction. A strawman would be bringing up some unrelated point. But, my point is precisely what I am arguing as a response to singling out hip hop by not just this site, but also sites like Towleroad, from which I can assume the bloggers at Queerty have also read. These bloggers over the last year alone have had several post on the evil that are black folks and their musical hate of gays. My point- as someone who loves all types of music- is that it’s funny because you see homophobia in other musical genres, but we are not subjected to periodic posts on their evils. How is that a strawman? How is your statement logical?
c) You then link to comments that are not my own. For the record, just because it does not comport with your position that hip hop is by far the worse that does not make an argument wrong. My position from the begining has been you are making statements you can’t prove. No one bothers to look at the impact of homophobia in music culture in general. No on a consistent basis. The best you can do is anecdotes. Personally, I have no problems with anecdotes until you think they are proof certain of the big picture. My point to you is there is no way you can know that. You are speculating based on bias as the diarist here does. What I am saying is because many genres have this issue- it’s a big strange to single out hip hop (and once again in a way that’s inaccurate sense we are again discussing gangsta rap, not hip hop).
d) As for your response regarding white homophobia, don’t be silly. We are all the product of all our cultural influences. Do you think again the Dixie Chicks were an aberration? No, they are an example of a tightly enforced standard. there are great things I love about country music. Especially someone like Johnny Cash, but I am under no illusion about the conservative values of other listeners. I realize those values are there even if it’s not as in your face as the word “fag.” Or, to give you a cross cultural analogy, it’s easy to be offended by the word “nigger” but it’s not better to be treated like one.
blake
@The Gay Numbers:
Thank you. I agree with you. This kind of crappy, lazy posting by Queerty really disappoints me.
Idea
@The Gay Numbers:
Oh lord. Can you not think abstractly? I think you’re doing it on purpose now. The only reason I used religion is because you did and while music genres don’t have a set of written rules there are certain sociological rules in some.
Nothing in Hip Hop literally says “project a hyper masculine image”, but it’s something that’s followed in the genre.
“Cut and paste where I say the levels are the same.”
I did and I disagreed. Perhaps you should start reading my comments more carefully?
“What I said was that white gays fixate on hip hop as if it’s the only homophobic music. I am now adding that not only do they do that, but they tend to lump it all together under hip hop as if gangsta rap is the same as Concious rap. ”
Have you ever thought it was because the genre is now mainstream? I agree that there will always be an element of racism when it comes to certain things but that’s certainly not the only reason it’s being criticized.
If you need a reference we’re talking about the vein of Hip Hop that’s been popular for the past 12 years or so. And anyway you act like “Conscious rap” isn’t homophobic either when it can be just as bad. Have you listened to any?
“Cherry picking in which you are making an argument that the part represents the whole is not a strawman.”
A strawman would be claiming that I said those few meant there was no homophobia in the genre. You’ve been working on that straw for awhile and this is why I’ve been c/ping – It’s all based on the assertion that I think those few are a reason to salt the entire genre when I was saying “Rock has been more supportive of LGBT than Hip Hop”.
‘y point- as someone who loves all types of music- is that it’s funny because you see homophobia in other musical genres, but we are not subjected to periodic posts on their evils”
Perhaps it’s because Hip Hop is mainstream? What the hell is so hard to understand about that?
“You then link to comments that are not my own.”
No I didn’t.
Response to D) I completely understand and I mentioned that before when I said I didn’t think it was accepting but that I felt there was a difference.
sparkle obama
queerty, please get that picture of 50 cent off your masthead.
you need to quit using images of Black men as symbols of “hate.
you are too reactionary, and for what?
you are part of the problem!
quit objectifying and demonizing.
if you know what that feels like and don’t like it…
then DON’T DO IT!
gosh!
Mike
@Paul Raposo: Pah LEEEEZ These guys are DL losers who can barely speak English Ima go git me sum now ah ite.. Ridiculous homophobic as*holes. We gays stand up for civil rights for all…. they need to realize who’s on their side and who don’t be…
Frank
Man, I’d love to se a famous gay rapper dissing all these wannabes, I wish gay people could become rap star and teah this ignorant foolsi’d relaly like to see that
Damon
I love Eminem (and not just because he’s so sexy!). But let’s be realistic. His songs ARE homophobic and meant to shock people. I’m also a faggot, but it’s kinda hot listening to him talk about beating up homos and raping fags in the ass. This is a turn-on for a lot of gays.