Pope Francis, often praised for his outreach to queer people, sat by silent this week as the Vatican released documents referring to transgender people as seeking to ‘annihilate the concept of nature.’
The document, referred to as Male And Female He Created Them, further maligns the transgender community as “nothing more than a confused concept of freedom in the realm of feelings and wants.” The Vatican describes the document as an educational tool for teachers and parents. The 31-page report also encourages doctors to “intervene” on people born intersex, even without parental consent.
“Efforts to go beyond the difference, such as the ideas of ‘intersex’ or ‘transgender,’ lead to a masculinity or feminity that is ambiguous,” the document reads. “In this understanding of things, the view of both sexuality identity and the family become subject to the same ‘liquidity’ and ‘fluidity’ that characterize other aspects of post-modern culture, often founded on nothing more than a confused concept of freedom in the realm of feelings and wants, or momentary desires provoked by emotional impulses and the will of the individual.”
Related: The former pope thinks you’re to blame for his church molesting thousands of kids
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The release of the Vatican document drew immediate criticism from pro-queer groups, including religious institutions like New Ways Ministry.
“The document associates sexual and gender minorities with libertine sexuality, a gross misrepresentation of the lives of LGBT people which perpetuates and encourages hatred, bigotry, and violence against them,” New Ways said in a statement.
“The document…will confuse those who sincerely struggle with questions of gender identity and sexual orientation. Such confusion leads to self-harm, addiction, and even suicide. The misinformation the document contains will cause families to reject their children, and it will increase alienation of LGBT people from the Church. The only truth that the document reveals is that the Vatican remains ill-equipped to discuss gender and sexuality in the modern world. By ignoring new scientific understandings of gender identity, and by refusing to engage in dialogue with LGBT people about their lived experiences of self-understanding and faith, the Vatican remains in the dark ages, promoting a false teaching that relies on myth, rumor, and falsehoods.”
Pope Francis has yet to comment on the release of the document. In 2015, he compared transgender people to nuclear weapons.
James
The catholic church can rot in hell. Stinking child molesters, women abusers.
evanxx
The Catholics ‘annihilated the concept of nature’ centuries ago. It unlikely that transgender people can possibly have any impact on it now.
“The greatest tragedy in mankind’s entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.” __ Arthur C. Clarke
_ AMEN
metta
Ignorant Vatican is spreading misinformation that will harm people. Shame on them.
Jared MacBride
They’ve been doing that for more than 2000 years.
Cam
Even though the one right winger on here with 10 different screenames keeps screaming about Muslims….
Remember it was the Catholic Church and Mormon Church working together that fought for Prop 8 in CA. to end same sex marriage there, and both those churches that funded the hate group NOM that introduced and backed multiple bigoted bills in multiple states.
Add to this that Evangellical politicians are behind most of the anti-LGBT hate bills in govt. now and none of this is surprising.
Religious leaders from the major Christian denominations (and Mormon) aren’t any less bigoted than the radical clerics in Saudi Arabia, they’ve just been forced to tone it down a bit here in the U.S. because the country was more secular than SA. But people like Mike Pence no longer feel that way.
enlightenone
As always, you say it best!
Karrnal
As usual, the Poop dispenses “ideas” based on 2000 year old mythology. And although the Poop isn’t voted into office by ordinary people, but by an armada of mini-Poops, it’s just another reason I’m thinking of not voting for anyone of any office over 50, and that’s pushing it. Do we need more old people dragging an outmoded past behind them, like Marley’s shackle?
dwes09
It makes perfect sense to perform reconstructive surgery on intersex people once they are old enough to articulate which gender they are.
But what the pope suggest has been empirically demonstrated to result in depression, anxiety and suicide. Long term studies of intersex people assigned an arbitrary gender at birth by doctors who made stupid assumptions show the harm this does.
Mack
The “Catholic Church” doesn’t give two craps about someone’s lives. All they want more people to procreate so they have more children to molest. The church should be re-named to the “Church of the Pedophile Priests.”.
msfrost
We ARE nature. Being LGBT is a congenital condition. (developed before birth) Science is finding more evidence for it, every day.
IWantAFullBeard
Consider the source – In this case it’s a child molester.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
If I led an organization with tens of thousands of kiddie diddlers would probably tell my people to STFU about anything even remotely associated with sex…..
Brian
Surely this can’t come as a surprise to anybody. Made in God’s image and all that?
truthseeker
This pope is a fool on many topics but if we accept this notion that people can arbitrarily change their gender based on how they feel that day then we are denying biology.
People are either born male or female (not counting a genetic anomaly which rarely occurs and doesn’t pertain to the people referenced). To ignore this fact and let people choose whatever they feel like then why can’t they choose their race or species? Sure, men can be feminine and women can be masculine but you can’t wake up one day and say I feel like being male today then tomorrow I feel like being neither.
Plus this has major effects on society and culture. What if a man applies to an all girls’ college claiming to be female during the application process? Can he sue for discrimination if he isn’t accepted? Can a man identify as female and apply for social services only available to women and then days later go back to claiming he’s male?
Humoring this idea that you can change gender at a whim makes people then proclaim that being gay must be a choice then too.
Cam
What a surprise, the same account that always defends anti-LGBT bigots, is here trying to deflect the topic off of the Catholic Church’s bigotry.
Well at least you’re consistent.
IWantAFullBeard
“not counting a genetic anomaly which rarely occurs”
Hahahahhahahhahahaha. Thank you for reminding us that you aren’t a geneticist or doctor or anything related to genetics. Which makes me wonder exactly what authority you have to declare that gender should come in two biologically?
truthseeker
@IWantAFullBeard
Show me a scientific study from a biologist (not a trans activist, blogger, or an eye doctor) that says human beings can biologically change gender
Just because someone wears makeup and a dress, they aren’t female. If I paint an orange red, it doesn’t become an apple. If clothes are what we use to determine gender then it ignores biology. Just like Facebook claiming there are over 50 genders.
Lots of this are from people crying for attention
IWantAFullBeard
Truthsseeker – Plleeeeeaaaaassssseeee…. do your own google search to find facts. You can’t say something that dumb and then demand people prove your imbecility. DNA rarely has mutations? Hahahahahaha that is too priceless for words.
truthseeker
@IWantAFullBeard
I was referencing genetic mutations related to sexual organs, not a broad wide sweeping comment about DNA mutations such as in cases of cancer. This topic is about people who claim to be gender fluid, genderless, etc.
And I have done my research. There is not 1 scientific peer reviewed study from an accredited biologist saying that gender is fluid and can be changed. I’m not surprised that when asked to show facts to present your opinion that your response is “Plleeeeeeaaaasseeeee”. Facts and proof are pesky things when you don’t have them.
IWantAFullBeard
Yawn – we get it troll. You don’t know a thing about biology.
evanxx
truthseeker _ Apparently you don’t put any effort into “seeking truth” when it’s something you are biased against. There are numerous studies & scientific publications explaining “gender identity” issues. The sex of an individual is determined by their outward physical appearance. The gender is determined in the brain of a developing fetus. When an individual is born with the brain structures of female, but the body has the physical features of a male, and visa-versa; that’s called transgender. It’s a major problem for that person. It’s true that medically speaking we can’t correct the brain structures, the best we can do is try to modify the body structures to match the “gender” in the brain. The fact that you’re spewing opinions & lies about something you don’t understand the basic concept of appalling. Next time, do some reading so you don’t come across as being totally ignorant.
truthseeker
@evanxx
“There are numerous studies & scientific publications explaining “gender identity” issues”
I’m sure there are and they’re based on junk science. That is why I specifically asked for a scientific peer reviewed study from an accredited biologist saying gender is fluid and can be changed. There isn’t one. If there is, give me the name of the study and the authors.
“When an individual is born with the brain structures of female, but the body has the physical features of a male, and visa-versa; that’s called transgender”
Are you then acknowledging that there are only 2 genders? What about people who are agender, androgynous, bigender, gender fluid, gender nonconforming, gender questioning, gender variant, intersex, neither, non-binary, pangender, etc?
Are the brains of each race different? If so, can someone be born with a white body but a Latino brain? There are studies that show some variance in brain structures of races so this should be a possibility too, no?
Can someone be born with what they feel is a disabled mind but an able body? Apparently so as there is now a small movement of trans-disabled people. These are people who are actually harming themselves to become disabled because they feel they should be disabled.
“the best we can do is try to modify the body structures to match the “gender” in the brain”
What if someone says their brain is gender fluid or not totally female or not totally male, then should we only perform a partial gender surgery? There are even trans advocates on social media saying “females” can still be female and have a penis.
Do you start to see where all of your concepts on this topic are now breaking down into, for lack of a better term, absurdity?
evanxx
truthseeker _ You have the reading comprehension skills of a doorknob. We are talking about Transgender persons ONLY. _ NOT “agender, androgynous, bigender, gender fluid, gender nonconforming, gender questioning, gender variant, intersex, neither, non-binary, pangender”; (most of those mean the same thing). I will try to ‘dumb it down’ for you. Through brain-MRI scans, scientists have found that the structures within the brain of a transgender person match the gender of the sex they identify as. So a male can have a female brain and therefore identifies as female despite having male genitalia. It has absolutely nothing to do with race or any other variables you “read about on social media”. Where did you get your ‘Phd. of Science’ anyway? I think you’re entitled to a refund of your tuition.
truthseeker
@evanxx
“We are talking about Transgender persons ONLY. _ NOT “agender, androgynous, bigender, gender fluid, gender nonconforming, gender questioning, gender variant, intersex, neither, non-binary, pangender”; (most of those mean the same thing). ”
They are not the same thing and you don’t want to discuss them because then your talking points fall apart.
“Through brain-MRI scans, scientists have found that the structures within the brain of a transgender person match the gender of the sex they identify as”
Those studies didn’t definitively show that. The study you are referencing was a study done by the National Distance Education University in Spain which only used a sample size of 94 people and the people who were transgender were already fully transitioned. Thus, they were on an on-going hormonal treatment. Even considering that, the results were not definitive as not all transgender test subjects fit the hypothesis.
Another study conducted was published in 2018 which says transgender people’s brains adapt to culture and lifestyle changes. Their findings said, “Thus, we believe that after a certain period of management, transgender individuals can be driven toward culturally contextualized behaviors via changing the specific cultural environment and lifestyle.”
Therefore, their brains are not born predisposed as you allege.
michel_banen
I’d love the church to release more info about how we can walk on water, talk to snakes and turn water into wine. If you know how miracles work, do a book on that. Oh, and please keep your people away from children.
jcoberkrom
So would you say that the catholic churches 50 years behind the times or a full century?
Just finished a book which reminded me that they didn’t stop their virulent anti-semitism until the late 50’s SAD
Ronbo
“Gender” is NOT fluid. Gender Identity is fluid.
If you can morph back and forth between vagina and penis… call me. You’ll be the first person in history.
IWantAFullBeard
The penis and the clit are actually just morphed organs in gestation. So it’s quite fluid. And many have genetic mutations that cause them to have neither a penis nor clit.
truthseeker
@IWantAFullBeard
That would be like saying the heart is fluid too because it morphs from cells at birth. These things are not fluid. They grow to fully developed organs, they don’t then morph into something else based on how you feel that day. People’s livers don’t morph into ears.
People can be masculine, feminine, shy, outgoing, athletic, smart, dumb, but they can’t change their biological identity. People aren’t Animorphs
IWantAFullBeard
Yawn.
RIP
This is so funny in so many ways.
The Pope indeed has some reason.
The issue is that one needs to experience a certain path of life, that will allow that person and sometimes the family a closure.
Unfortunately, we are not dealing with emotions the correct way, we are dealing with feelings the correct way.
There is a massive overload on the physical aspect.
Being in love, feeling this or that is gender neutral.
Having sex is a physical act, that sometimes is promoted to an extreme that can make my grandparents feel like they did not had a sexual life at all.
They did, it was, what it was. They are still alive and well.
They accepted my sexuality from early age and did nothing to transform me, they let me do my life job, experience shame, social and family shame. (Some shame issues in family needed to be addressed) all fixed now, next lesson? Deal with anger? Let’s learn it.
I am just a body that is experiencing, several emotions at the time.
I have seen some Transgender people, that were in pain after changing the sex, because, the emptiness was still there.
The issue is not physical, although it seems like it is.
Changing sex, to my knowledge, brings a bit of comfort for some time, (not important how much time) but I’ve seen people crying for their decision, because they still feel empty after all they went through.
So, I believe that, it must be a small amount of real Transgender that need to go for the full body transformation, but in general, I do believe that, some issues should be solved on different levels.
But what can I say, I am just posting my side, my viewpoint, I’m an ignorant of other points of view.
So with all respect I hope one day I can fully understand and integrate the full knowledge.
QueerTruth
The Roman Catholic Church is the largest and longest surviving cult.
Who cares what these pathetic hypocrite coveted in gold leaf have to say.
2 thousand years of raping and ruining billions of lives is quite enough.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
A Man who parades around in what is basically a very fierce dress every day of his life really don’t have much of a right to be casting judgement on others who chose to identify as gender opposite….
Cam
Funny how a Church that is opposed to anything natural is now trying to pretend it gives a crap about what’s “Natural”.
Really Pope? Because sex is natural, and your church certainly seems to hate that.
DCFarmboy
I agree with the Pope saying that transgender persons should not “suffer bullying, violence, insults”. On the issue of gender, I would say I am an atheist. I don’t believe gender is anything but socially concocted things that a particular society in a particular time associates with a particular sex. None of it is innate.
Chipper
It really is sad, until they get their house in order, they might want to keep quite. I would have problems, someone who has never faced difficulties in a marriage, or with raising a child, all they seems to do is violate the children they are around, to tell me how things are. They just move their priests around from place to place, to hid the fact of what has been done. Shame on those who have caused the molesting to continue. Shame on them that should at times just keep their mouths closed.