As we rack up victory after victory on the marriage front, hereâs a question to ponder: what ever happened to the Mormon Church? You know, those LDS people who sank more than $20 million into Californiaâs Prop. 8 campaign and were its largest funder. In fact, as Stephanie Mencimer at Mother Jones points out, the Mormon Church has made a conscious decision not to engage in any of the current battles over marriage equality. And the churchâs withdrawal from the war may be one of the biggest reasons for our success.
Why the about-face? Mencimer cites a number of reasons. For one thing, Mormon leaders were apparently caught off guard by the backlash to their involvement in Prop. 8, including from their own members. Â Thereâs also the notion that the church went for a lower profile in the 2012 election cycle so as not to scare off voters from Mitt Romney, who is a Mormon bishop (and lousy candidate needed no help in losing voters).
But the biggest reason may be that the Church is, dare we say it, evolving. Church officials have been conspicuously softening their attitudes (which doesnât meant those attitudes are very soft), establishing outreach to gay Mormons and even approving of gay Boy Scouts (but not Scout leaders because, well, you know). LDS officials still condemn homosexuality for being an affront to the churchâs view of chastity, but, as Mencimer puts it, âthe church seems to have returned to focusing on homosexuality as a personal issue rather than a political one.â
Thatâs been a financial and logistical disaster for anti-marriage activists. In 2008, more than 800 Utah residents contributed $2.7 million to the Prop. 8 campaign. In 2012, 16 Utah diehards contribute all of $1,264 to the anti-marriage groups in the four states with ballot measures.Worse still, the volunteers who were foot soldiers in the campaigns are gone. Which makes the National Organization for Marriage look like the house of cards (mostly jokers) that it really is.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Of course, the Mormon Church could decide to get back in the fight again. But with each passing victory, the odds of ultimate success grow slimmer. After a long time leading the battle, it looks like the church has surveyed the field and recognized that the time has come to cut its losses. History may be on our side, but it could have been even longer in coming if the Mormon Church had wanted it that way.
Dakotahgeo
Never trust or turn your back on a conservative, Mormon, or any religious extremist of any denomination. They are all cut from the same cloth. They are poison to any who come in contact with them politically!
2eo
Leopard’s don’t change their spots, they are working in the shadows, bribing and blackmailing people all over the planet. These religious nutcases will never stop fighting our right to be equal.
It is all one way for them, only they are “saved” so they are superior and we deserve to be put down.
The religious are terrified of people who are equal, because they know that when equality is achieved the need for religion collapses, and people like me are going to keep stabbing the idea until it is completely dead.
1EqualityUSA
It is simple religion and politics should stay separated. Any church leader, tugging on the coattails of a Senator, has very little faith in their own Father’s Word. Religion, tainted by the political machine, is faithless futility. Politics, tainted by the religious machine, is oppression and usury.
The Mormon church is not a religion, however, it is a nefarious cult, a reed in the wind, a nothing-burger, organized to spread false teachings and wild machinations. It is emptiness. It has no historical nor archeological basis.
2eo
@1EqualityUSA: You’ll find it is just as valid as any other christian cult. Gold plates and desert schizophrenics are no less outrageous than the bulls*it 3 day resurrection and all the other stuff that didn’t happen.
They’re all cults that feed on human misery.
MK Ultra
Stop trying to make gay- friendly mormonism happen.
The article by Mencimer is blatant propaganda, paid for in full by the mormon church, I’m sure.
Ever since prop 8 the mormon cult has been on a PR mission to look gay friendly on the outside while doubling down on their violent hate rhetoric behind the scenes.
From attending the Utah Pride, to the little twink coming out to his family on the condition of celebacy to that offensive joke of a website for mormon gays – it’s all fake, friends.
It’s all on big PR show.
Remember at the end of the day, the mormon stated opinion is – being gay is a condition that must be cured (torture) or you’re out on your ass.
Think Joseph Goebbels nazi propaganda – ” we just want to ‘help’ the Jew. That’s why we torture him.”
Fuck mormons and their nasty brainwashing cult.
jamesnimmo
The real people with the truth are those who have figured out the psycopathic nature of religious flat-earthers who are driven by their own demons to hate those who are happy in their own skins and minds.
hyhybt
@MK Ultra: There is a vast difference between telling people within your organization what to do and attempting to enforce that on everyone else.
MK Ultra
@hyhybt: And aren’t mormons kind? They’d like to do both.
That’s the problem, hyhybt.
Not to mention, if they engage in physical, psychological, or sexual abuse, which is exactly what “ex-gay therapy” is, then it’s EVERYBODY’S problem.
Maybe some naive people think “as long as they keep it to themselves…”
But that’s the point – their cult isn’t about “keeping it to themselves”.
It’s about spreading and enforcing it.
darkmoonman
My thought is “What are they up to?”
Mormons
There has been a concerted 25 year effort to “brainwash” the American people to portray homosexuals as “victims” and to treat opponents of “Gay Rights” as Nazi/KKK-like “bigots”. An entire book (After the Ball: How Americans will Conquer their Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 1990’s) was written by an advertising man and a media psychologist to concoct a propaganda campaign only Josef Goebbels could admire.
You can read an abbreviated version of the strategy written in 1987 called âThe Overhauling of Straight America”. Among other things, the authors said that Sodomites must be constantly and persistently portrayed as “victims” to elicit Americans’ natural tendencies to protect the oppressed. For that reason, the pedophiles in the “Gay Rights” movement must stand down from visible participation in the movement — at least until low-hanging fruit like “marriage” and military service were achieved — because nobody would consider a pedophile to be a “victim”..
2eo
@MK Ultra: It is not in the nature of the religious to not force their beliefs on everyone else. It is the literal core concept of faith.
You can not be religious and not be preachy and forceful, it is absolutely impossible to not be, because that is the nature of faith.
Teleny
I love how the right wing nut jobs are on here everyday spewing their hateful, mindless Limbaugh rhetoric. Ill bet after they do that, the jerk off to the hot boy pics and then feel shameful afterward, Get a life right wing closet case nut job loser!
2eo
@Teleny: mormons is actually regular Queerty poster Brian. This is possibly his worst attempt at a trolling account though.
Roger Rabbit
Ah, but at least with the Mormon church there’s hope for a “REVELATION!!” It happened in 1965 when it became evident that the texts against blacks being worthy were just a scroll of gibberish put together by Joseph Smith, and they had to backpedal quickly.
Perhaps there will be one about gay inclusion??
(Unlike the church I grew up in where it is GOD’s Doctrine)
Thom
@Mormons: Thank you for showing us just how brain-washed the Mormons are. Did you really believe that African-Americans were children of the devil and that the males couldn’t be Mormon “priests”? Or that god was a man before he became god? And that Moroni and other Mormon “angels” visit regularly? And you forgot to tell us about your beliefs about Kolob. And the sacred underwear. And how you get to buy your way into heaven by tithing. And baptizing dead people without their family’s consents. I’m VERY interested in the opinions of someone who already holds beliefs like that – obviously rational and clear-thinking. Now you need to go check on your wives and make sure that they are all being properly submissive. Oh, and the next time you feel the need to post, how about telling us something more on that little massacre that Brigham Young ordered.
Cam
WOW, and Queerty once again will use ANY attempt to try to soften the Mormon Chur’s war on gays..including STILL linking to that phony Mormon gay site where they are still calling gays sinners.
Here is an idea Queerty, instead of saying it is such a great thing that the church likes the boyscouts new possible policy that could allow gay scouts, why not be honest about it and say that they support a policy that will fire any gay employees from the scouts.
As for this comment “”In fact, as Stephanie Mencimer at Mother Jones points out, the Mormon Church has made a conscious decision not to engage in any of the current battles over marriage equality”
That is a lie because as you seem to have forgotten, they are still funding NOM to the tune of several millions a year and NOM is very actively engaged in the fight against gay rights.
But you know, it wouldn’t be a typical week at Queerty if you didn’t try to do a fluff piece on the Mormon church. I really hope they are paying you a lot to sell out gays.
Cam
@Roger Rabbit:
It wasn’t 1965, it was nearly 1980
manxxxx
@Cam: Actually, Roger Rabbit is closer to the truth. The big revelation regarding Blacks being admitted to the priesthood and membership came, surprisingly enough, at the same time that the NCAA was about to ban Brigham Young University from participation in sports, particularly basketball, because of the church’s perceived racism. In the post-Civil Rights legislation era this was a hot topic. It was resolved and BYU was never excluded from play. You just have love it when the Elders have got that pipeline to God at the right time.
In my younger days, my first long-term relationship was with a Mormon. (What the hell was I thinking?) Cult? The word doesn’t even come close. Christian? Nope. They are not christian and resent being tied to christians. The public persona of LDS is nothing like the duplicitous private persona which has conversion as its endgame. You cannot imagine what hell it was to be tied to a gay Mormon almost 40 years ago. Talk about a mind f**k!
I live in the shadows of the Las Vegas Mormon Temple and proudly park my car with its bumper sticker prominently displayed so all Mormons going to and from can see it:
The Angel Moroni blows. (With the picture of the angel.) Childish? Perhaps. Soothing? You bet.
Cam
@manxxxx:
Hi Manxxx, While I totally agree with the rest of your post, blacks were not allowed full membership in the church until 1979 or so.
MrNirom
@Thom: So.. Tell me more about Kolob. And this crap about a massacre that was ordered? LOL You honestly think because you can show how to make a list that the list becomes truth? Not even close. What is a Mormon “priest”? And the underwear.. why are you so interested in underwear that people are wearing? Fetish eh? You just try to look like the big man here with all your “knowledge” about the Mormon faith. Let see who else here “knows it all”.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Hey….! Mr. Nimrod!!! If you knew anything about Mormonism, you’d know very well why the Mormons were chased from one state to another: because they were evil little killers of people who didn’t agree with them, and they ‘got’ a ‘reputation’! And the magic underwear? That’s supposed to guard a Mormon person from ALL harm? Tell that to the survivors of the Mormons of a car accident! Or a young person drowns wearing his ‘spechul’ underwear! No fetishes here… just heartbreak! So, quite frankly, NIMROD… forget the Mr. … we have plenty of very intelligent and informed people who know all the ins and outs of Mormonism. Or is that MoremenforStraightMormonsonthesly?? Reminds me of the “ghost” shirts that the Native Americans wore into battle… didn’t do them much good either. Too many blood stains to clean up! People like you are so… duh!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Ah yes.. the type of person that has to change the names of people and try to use a “degrading” name. LOL So childish.
I have read many of the journals of those who have been chased from one state to another.. and it surely wasn’t because they were evil little killers. There were many woman and children who were killed. Many of the women raped. Their only “reputation” was that they stuck together.
And the magic underwear… not for the purpose you state.
And Nimrod.. just so you know.. was the king of Shinar. He was, according to the Book of Genesis and Books of Chronicles, the son of Cush and great-grandson of Noah. He is depicted in the Tanakh as a man of power in the earth, and a mighty hunter. So you trying to be all name calling in a derogatory way is like I said before.. childish. You speak of “we” have plenty of very intelligent and informed people.. but I would have to say you are not one of the we. duh.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Addendum to No. 21: And you’re also a pi$$ poor Mormon if that is your denomination!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Ah.. judgmental too. Nice. Your mother must be soooo proud.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Nimrod also means, “fool, or really stupid person.” Take your pick, and thanks for the compliments. Coming from you, they mean nothing! Nirom = Nimrod w/o the genealogy.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Yes.. your definition is the informal version. But just because you call me names doesn’t make it so. Still childish.
manxxxx
@Cam: Cam, thanks. And we’re both right. The revelation preceded the action of “full” participation by several years; but, it was enough to appease the masses. Oh, well, just as the Tobey Keith sang…”Wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then…” I know way more about Mormons and Mormonism having been in a screwed up relationship with one for 388 of the longest days of my life.
MrNirom
@manxxxx: Being in a relationship with a Mormon no make you know about them then sleeping in a garage with a car makes you a mechanic. It is fine that you don’t want to live a lifestyle devoted to the following of Christ.. but to say that Mormons aren’t Christian.. is just not true.
Somehow.. someway.. you think that a world wide church.. with members in almost every country.. is worried about one University in Utah and therefore changed its policies because of that? Seriously? I don’t think so. Those of the negro race had full membership into the church. What the male members did not have until 1978 was the Priesthood. Had a revelation not been received.. it would be the same today… even at the cost of one university being allowed to play games.
The “end game” is always the salvation of ones soul. That is why Christ sent his Apostles into the world to preach his Gospel. And as those who followed Christ after his death.. the end game has always been the conversion to Christ. To acknowledge your sins.. to repent of them.. to be baptized for the remission of your sins.. to have the gift of the Holy Ghost and then to follow the teachings of Christ until the day you die. That is the definition of being a Christian. Everything else is just an appendage to it.
manxxxx
@MrNirom: Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I look forward to further exchanges. I suggest you do some research regarding the validity of baptism from the standpoint of Christianity as well as the specific form used by the Mormons. For example: What happens when a Mormon or Jew converts to any of the Christian sects? Are they “re-baptized” or “baptized” for the first time? Contrast this with say a baptized Methodist who professes faith as a Lutheran, Anglican, or Catholic thus switching from one Christian sect to another? The answer will clear up any misconception about Mormons classed as Christians. The theological understanding of Jesus in the LDS cult is not the same as Christians’ acceptance of Jesus as the only, begotten Son of God who came as the Messiah.
hyhybt
@manxxxx: How is that comparison supposed to help? Many Christian denominations (and “non-denominations”) accept no baptisms other than their own. And last I heard, Jews aren’t baptized at all, so one converting to Christianity *couldn’t* be re-baptized.
MrNirom
@manxxxx: Lets look at baptism from the Bibles point of view. We are going on the basis of authority. If you think that all baptisms are acceptable just because one is baptized, all we need to do is turn the Acts of the Apostles and see what was recorded there.
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
So here is the Apostle Paul.. coming to Ephesus and finding disciples. These would be people who profess to believe in Jesus Christ and are spreading the word.
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
So now he wants to know.. have they received the Holy Ghost. Why do you suppose he wanted to know that? Because he knew that there were those who were authorized to baptize.. and there were those who were authorized to give the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. And sometimes.. those who were doing the baptism did not have the authority to give the Holy Ghost.. and it was conferred upon them at a later time. Case in point from the Bible:
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
So you see how these folk had been baptized.. but had not been given the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Apostles, Peter and John had that authority to give the gift of the Holy Ghost.. so they were sent.
Now understanding this.. we can see why Paul asked the question to these disciples if they had received the Holy Ghost. And what was their response?
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Now.. Paul wonders. How can these have been taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ.. been baptized.. but not know about the Holy Ghost? So he then asks them to clarify:
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto Johnâs baptism.
So.. what is John’s baptism? Well.. John preached the remission of sins.. and he baptized by immersion. So what does Paul do now?
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
So now these disciples are re-baptized! Why would they have to be re-baptized if they had already been baptized? Because the person who baptized them did not have the authority to do so. So Paul had to re-baptize them. And after their authorized baptism what would be the next step Paul should do? The words in the Bible say:
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Now.. you think that no “Christian” sect baptizes people to their own faith? I sir would have to totally disagree with you. My wife before becoming a Latter Day Saint had been baptized 5 times into each and every faith that she expressed an interest in joining. Baptism is also used as not only entry into the Kingdom of God.. but also into the faith in which one wants to be a member of. Of course.. there are some who don’t require baptism of any kind… saying it is no longer needed.
So has that “cleared” up the misconception you seem to be having?
For a Latter Day Saint.. Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father. He is the only human ever created where his father is God.. and his mother is human. Does the Christian world see it differently? Being born of a virgin says that no human man has known her. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Had it not been so.. the sacrifice upon the cross for the punishment of all the sins of mankind could not have been done. Many humans have crucified upon a cross.. but none having the power over their own lives.. and none perfect to satisfy Justice. For every sin that has been committed upon this earth, has a penalty associated with it. Justice demands that for every sin committed.. a punishment must be handed out and performed. Whether it be us.. or Christ.. it matters not to Justice. And that is what Jesus Christ did for mankind. He took on the punishment of every sin that was or would be committed. Justice then has no hold on any of us. But Christ does. He says.. come follow me.. or the punishment of your sins will be upon your own heads. If you want to be saved.. then their is a narrow gate to enter.. and a straight path to follow. Very simple.
manxxxx
@MrNirom: Wow!
Cam
@MrNirom:
Please stop lying. The Mormon propaganda trolls stopped coming on here a while ago because their lies kept getting pointed out.
Yes, the LDS church absolutly changed it’s rules on blacks because of “One School in Utah”. you can claim that they are a worldwide church but when something like 80% of their members are in Utah CA, and Idaho lets not pretend that what goes on with, at that time, the ONE major Mormon University in the world wouldn’t matter. That and the fact that the headquarters of the church are nearby, AND the fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the leadership at that time had gone to BYU.
Please take your lies elsewhere. The reason that the Mormons can’t lie on a gay board is because your church has excommunicated so many Mormons for being gay. There are PLENTY of them on here to point out every lie and flase bit of twisted propoganda.
And, as for the Mormons being such victims….just curious, Brigham Young marrying that 14 year old after already having multiple wives and fleeing the state, getting shot by some of his own followers after stealing all their money…….really? A victim?
Dakotahgeo
@Cam: Thank you, thank you! I should have suspected Mr. Nim… errr, Braindead was a Mormon! I am a retired ordained CHRISTIAN minister and when I was in my third year of Seminary, we had a class project in which we were asked to take classes in a denomination different than our own. I chose, with the Prof’s blessing, to study Mormonism. The missionaries did a fine job, nice looking young men, and they proceeded to do a really thorough teaching. When they got to Baptism/Marriage of the Dead, I just smiled and said, Thank you so much… So long, it’s been nice knowing you! I told my Prof I would gladly take an F in the course than to listen to any more of that hogwash. I also attended a public showing of a new Temple in Kirksville, MO before they sealed it to the public. I saw the protective mesh clothing that supposedly protects them from harm, the bathtub on the Bulls’ backs… my friend started laughing, I nudged him hard!, and the Celestial Room was beautiful. They must have great spray-painters in their realm. At any rate, I was assigned the Seventh Day Adventists and was able to finish the Project with time to spare. (I did visit the Mormon Church on a number of occasions earlier in life… they sound so ‘innocent’.
MrNirom
@Cam: I am not lying at all. You may have some of your facts right.. but your conclusions are wrong. Just how near by is BYU to headquarters of the church? As if that really makes a difference about anything.
Social pressure?
Social pressure was actually on the decline after the Civil Rights movement and coordinated protests at BYU athletic events ceased in 1971. The allegation that the LDS church’s tax-free status was threatened was addressed by a church spokesman:
We state categorically that the federal government made no such threat in 1978 or at any other time. The decision to extend the blessings of the priesthood to all worthy males had nothing to do with federal tax policy or any other secular law.
Jan Shipps, a Methodist scholar and celebrated scholar of Mormon history and culture, considers it factual that “this revelation came in the context of worldwide evangelism rather than domestic politics or American social and cultural circumstances.” She wrote:
A revelation in Mormondom rarely comes as a bolt from the blue; the process involves asking questions and getting answers. The occasion of questioning has to be considered, and it must be recalled that while questions about priesthood and the black man may have been asked, an answer was not forthcoming in the â60s when the church was under pressure about the matter from without, nor in the early â70s when liberal Latter-day Saints agitated the issue from within. The inspiration which led President Kimball and his counselors to spend many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple pleading long and earnestly for divine guidance did not stem from a messy situation with blacks picketing the churchâs annual conference in Salt Lake City, but was “the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth.”
So now you want to tell me that the reason Mormons who were gay got excommunicated was because they were gay?? Or is it because they were living the gay lifestyle? Let your evidence be presented.
And your last statement: [Brigham Young marrying that 14 year old after already having multiple wives and fleeing the state, getting shot by some of his own followers after stealing all their moneyâŚâŚreally? A victim?]
I would love to see some proof of this! Just point me to the web page of the source of this allegation. You want to know something? You won’t find it… because it is not true.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Too bad you didn’t spend more time doing a bit of research on Baptism/Marriage for the Dead. Kinda what many of the Jews did when it came to Gospel of Jesus Christ. They weren’t having any part of it!
1EqualityUSA
What a load! Go away, MrNirom! Go ring another’s doorbell. What a waste of time! Cult! Answers for every response…is that what the cult teaches? God help any little boy scout sharing a tent with one of you! Please don’t respond with one of your smarmy, long, self-indulgent, miasma answers. You and your sect gross me out! Please go away! Hit up a Third World Country, where a handout replaces the True Savior. Worldly bunch of charlatans. Joe Smith is a joke and so are you.
LDS Actions Against Marriage Equality
Mormons in the House of Representatives Vote for Discrimination
Despite LDS Crusade, Senate Rejects Ban on Gay Marriage
Anti-Gay Actions Carried Out by the LDS Church
Prelude to the National âDefense of Marriageâ Campaign
Despite LDS Crusade, Senate Rejects Ban on Gay Marriage
âThe Church got sucked into the jets of cynical GOP political strategyâ
The Mormon Vote in the Senate
Orrin Hatch: Yea
Bob Bennett: Yea
Gordon Smith: Yea
Mike Crapo: Yea
Harry Reid: Nay
See Full Senate Voteby Matt Christensen
June 2006
The U.S. Senate rejected on June 7 a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, despite a carefully orchestrated political campaign in which the LDS Church joined a right-wing religious coalition and urged Mormon congregations to help pass the bill. If passed, the measure would have started the process of writing discrimination against gay and lesbian couples into the Constitution.
Mormon senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Bob Bennett, R-Utah, Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, and Gordon Smith, R-Oregon, voted for the so called âMarriage Protection Act,â while Mormon Senator and minority leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., voted against it.
âFor me it is clear the reason for this debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another,â Reid wrote on his website. âThis is another one of the Presidentâs efforts to frighten, to distort, to distract, and to confuse America. It is this Administrationâs way of avoiding the tough, real problems that American citizens are confronted with each and every day.â
Columnist Holly Mullen critiqued the role of the LDS Church in the stunt. âOn the amendment matter â whether intentional or not â the [LDS] church got sucked into the jets of cynical GOP political strategy,â Mullen wrote June 8 in The Salt Lake Tribune. âBush took a desperate dive to shore up his lagging approval and his party by pushing a plan destined to fail from the first. For LDS leaders to align themselves personally with this transparent political ploy seems beneath its public reputation for repudiating hands-on political involvement, and frankly, for trying to do good.â
âThe president failed this time,â Mullen added. âAs did the church.â
See, thatâs the thing about the internet. Words are never forgotten, no matter how much they shake the etch-a-sketch, their past is a button away.
MrNirom
@1EqualityUSA: Who are you to tell me what to do.. or where to go? You don’t have that kind of power. I have just as much right to exercise my right to free speech as you do. At least I do it in a much kinder way. If we do gross you out.. it is only your conscience not wanting to deal with reality. You have not proved one point. Saying that Joseph Smith is a joke is nothing more than your opinion.. and like belly buttons.. everyone has one. But it does not make it a fact.
And we as a church still stand today on marriage between a man and woman ONLY! I don’t care that Satan wants it differently. I will stand up for the laws of God before I stand up for the laws that men want to create that go against God. Yes.. it may nauseate you.. but as much as you are for it.. I am against it!
June 2006? You bring up something from 7 years ago? The LDS Church didn’t get “sucked” up into anything. They know that no matter how “popular” gay marriage is or becomes.. their stance on it remains the same. And they will stand on that rock until the this nation of ours is overflowing in iniquity. After that.. we need not worry about it. We will be able to stand and know we did what we could to uphold righteousness… even at the peril of being ridiculed by the new immoral majority.
You speak of Holly Mullen as if she is someone I should know about. I don’t know her. I have never heard about her. I am sure there are many more comments and opinions just like hers out there in the world. Hey.. just look at yours!
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: You’re wasting you time with Nimrod-Nirom… it’s not that hard to dream up gold plates, moronic angels, and the like. Nirom may be intelligent in his own cultic world, but he would be hard pressed to go up against realistic, Bible-centered theologians in Christian denominations. Better to let him prattle on and be mollified and content than to shake his ground with truth and fact. But you’ve done a commendable job, 1EqualityUSA!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Ah.. but you seem to be afraid to do so. I have given you scripture from the Bible.. what is it you don’t agree with?
Sure.. a person can dream up gold plates, and we can tell from the Bible that angels even appear there.. and the like? Not sure what the like is. But what you can’t do.. is to have witnesses of the gold plates that are inside the imagination of someone. You can’t have witnesses of angels.. you call them moronic.. I wonder what they call themselves? Probably something along the lines of: messengers from the presence of God.
You have quick witted mouths and sharp tongues when it come to degrading the individual.. but not much when it comes to actual substance. If I am such a threat.. all you have to do is not read what I write. Then hey.. all should be real good.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Very simple… you’re not worth the time it takes to explain it to, you don’t have the intelligence to comprehend anything outside the Mormon cult, and quite frankly, you’re very cheap entertainment. I enjoy watching you make a fool out of yourself… and with such ease!!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: LOL.. I am making a fool of myself? hehehe yea right. I guess if you keep saying it to yourself long enough.. you will believe it. I think they call that brainwashing. LOL
Cam
@MrNirom:
Look, We ALL know about you Mormons and your “Lying for the Lord” directives, i.e., it is ok to lie as long as it is in support of your religion.
Once again, too many gays have been excommunicated by the LDS church for a little Peter Priesthood like you to come in and try to rewrite history.
Nice try, now why don’t you go make a nice little jello mold to bring to the latest ward social function. Oh wait….they aren’t doing many of them any more since the Church started having those money problems are they?
MrNirom
@Cam: Lying for the Lord directives? I have never in my life received any sort of direction or counsel to do that. Maybe you would like to be so brave and courageous as to point out specifically the lies to which you think I am telling. And until you do present some sort of evidence.. your allegation that I lie is just that.
Re-write history? Listen Cam.. you are the one rewriting history here. Just scroll up to your comment on Brigham Young. You made a statement as if it were the truth but then when asked to give the sources on your comment.. you are as quiet as a mouse. But you sure can roar when spewing out your unsubstantiated comments.
I am sure there have been many gays that have been excommunicated from the Church. And as you very well know I stated.. for what? being gay? or living the gay lifestyle?
If they were engaged in homosexual acts.. then they deserved to be excommunicated. You might not agree.. but those are the rules to be a member of the church. if you don’t want to follow the rules.. then you don’t belong in the Church and excommunication is the appropriate response.
Money problems? Really? You have some proof you want to share? Please.. let all of us have access to this golden information you have.
All I see from you is a bunch of hot wind and lots of hate!
Dakotahgeo
@Cam: I don’t see so much hate in your comments, but rather disgust for Nimrod’s attitude, as I do. And also, quite a bit of pity for him and his cultists!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: My attitude? What.. the one that calls you on the carpet for making statements without sources? That attitude?
You don’t see me calling you a liar when you are less than truthful. I just figure you don’t know any better and have a habit of parroting what you hear without doing any real research on your own.
And then there is your childish ways of renaming me in an attempt to degrade me on a personal level. The name calling shows me just how mature you really aren’t. It is one thing to disagree with someone else’s faith and belief system.. but why all the negative personal stuff? You don’t see hate in that? Probably not.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: What…eva! You still making for cheap entertainment, and we all thank you! Looking forward to hearing from you again, lolol.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: What eva? LOL It is you who brings on the entertainment. You still haven’t been able to really put together any intellectual ideas together that even resemble something more than a list of your opinions. Calling you out on the carpet. What you gotta say now? Oh.. by the way. You are very welcome. đ
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: I’m trying in a civil way to tell you that you don’t have the brainpower to understand anything I or anyone else says on this blog. That’s what I’ve got to say, pure and simple. I hope you now understand. I’m just pandering to your weak side, and you respond just like a Pavlov doggy. Ugh!
1EqualityUSA
The entire time Christ was on this planet, He had never uttered a word about gays. Perhaps He understood what Rabbinical Paul (Saul) could not, that we were born this way. We are not going to lie about ourselves just to make you feel comfortable around us. Religion has no place in civil law, whether it is Hindu, Halakha, Sharia Law or Christianityâs Canon, Americans are not to be burdened by other peoples religious beliefs. Freedom from other peoplesâ religious beliefs is imperative. Separation of Church and State has never been more relevant.
You may believe that there is a Planet named Kolob, for which living a lie here on earth will afford to you admission to this very select group of humans elsewhere, but to use your power to try to effect change in the Constitution, to hold other Americans to your path of living, legally, is a burden too insidious to allow.
Equality for all Americans, even the unpopular ones, is supported by the framework of the Constitution. This big idea may be challenged, but it must not be defeated. If the rights of GLBT Americans are suspended this century, who will they target next? Freedom will have to win. The Constitution is above mere justices and politicians. Religion could win hearts, but not acting like children, playing with toy machine guns, shooting Bible bullets, (their version-hollow points). They could win hearts. Thatâs the thing about teaching the Truth, it has a certain pitch. No need to earn anything, it just happens. When money and power come into the picture, the Word becomes tainted. Greed is a creepy crawler. Fear is a grand mobilizer of money. Cults are susceptible to this worldliness, as they are a counterfeit.
I was agnostic and went into reading the Bible, so that I could see for myself what exactly it was saying about gays. It changed me, though I have yet to join a church in the twenty seven years Iâve been studying. Churches are disappointing and are worldly minded businesses, more taken in by politics, rather than relying on the words given to them to transform hearts. The words are so complex and beautiful that it would take me 800 years to fully grasp its complexity. I view it as a three-dimensional structure, like a basket missing much of its weave. Parts have been altered, whole books omitted, worldly tinkering through the ages has changed it, but the structure is still there. The skeleton is still recognizable. History repeats itself and humans never change. The very things that vexed people in ancient times vex us today. There is nothing new under the sun. Observing life can provide the meat for the skeletal remains of ancient words that have succumbed to human tampering. Some of the most profound verses have transformed my heart and mind. The greatest gift given to me from Scripture is that of a vantage point outside of myself, a birdâs eye view of this existence. When Shakespeare wrote, âAll the worldâs a stage, And all the men and women merely playersâ a line such as this cannot be written without seeing the world from a distant vantage point. When Isaiah described the earth as an orb in the palm of Godâs hand, this train of thought cannot come into being, without seeing from a vantage point apart from the flesh, especially when it was believed, at the time that this was written, that the earth was flat. So, for all of the chaff that I sift through, the nuggets of wisdom far outweigh the mythology and it is these nuggets that have saved me time and much vain effort. Itâs like having a really wise friend pass on bits of advice that prevents stumbling. Faith is a whole different animal, something which requires humbleness and it needs to be sought after. It brings the words alive, operational. It offers refuge, not persecution. Iâm blown away by the beauty of the Bible. I looked into it to disprove the churches stance and it helped me understand that the church has destroyed Christâs message. Mere men cannot take away from me what has been given to me by Christ, no matter how powerful, no matter how much they engender disharmony towards the LGBT community. Were I to attempt to make others live by my beliefs, that would make me just as oppressive as a Mormon or a Muslim, trying to force others to live by their beliefs and alter our Nation’s Constitution.
MrNirom
Sinc@1EqualityUSA: Since when has Kolob ever been a planet? These words already tell me you really don’t know what you are talking about.. just a bunch of mish mash.
Christ did not speak about gays.. and neither did he speak about murderers or rapists or adulterers. Your point being what? The Mosaic Law was already in place.. and it was Jesus Christ who gave it to Moses. Christ did say.. if you love me.. obey my commandments. He did say Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. He did say to repent and be baptized. He did say that narrow was gate and straight was the path that leads to salvation. He did say.. go and sin no more.
Every person is born some way. We are all born with our natural tendencies.. it is called the “natural man”. But the natural man is an enemy to God and we are told to put off this natural man. We are to control our passions, our wants and desires. But hey.. I understand that the majority of people just want to do whatsoever they want to do. And if it were allowed for mankind to do whatsoever he wanted to do.. there would be no laws to keep him from doing it.
Marriage was before the Constitution. Marriage was from the beginning. And marriage has always been between a man and woman from the beginning. Marriage was instituted by the God that created this world. He set the rules. People want to pervert those rules. And they are not just perverting the laws of Marriage.. but many other laws as well. You are right in that history does repeat itself for mankind. When will mankind learn. It is so simple.. yet.. we can’t get it right.
Obey God’s laws.. and you prosper. Go against God’s laws.. expect things to not go so well. Up and down.. Righteousness.. wickedness.. righteousness… wickedness… over and over and over again. You can see how history consistently show us this pattern. And so when American started.. people were coming to this world to be able to worship God. And America has prospered. Now America is becoming so wicked in so many ways.. I have no doubt that for a brief period of time, the majority will switch sides and embrace the marriage of gays.
However.. in the end.. God will win. Even the devil knows his days are numbered. He will be bound and the evil in this world will be eliminated for a period of 1000 years. Just how close are we to this period of time? It is true that we all have to die someday. It is the next life that we must all deal with… and it will deal with us. Right or wrong.. evil or good.. each will be judged and held accountable. Not only to laws they wanted to obey.. but the laws that were given to them by God. You are right when you say that “Freedom from other peoplesâ religious beliefs is imperative. Separation of Church and State has never been more relevant.” especially when you don’t want to acknowledge any of God’s rules. That is the first thing you need to do.. get rid of God.. get him out of the way.. change his doctrine.. twist his words.. and do what has been predicted by the prophets.. that good would be called evil.. and evil.. would be called good. Welcome to end of days! whether you acknowledge them or not. Whenever God’s prophets came a calling and warning the people to repent.. or be destroyed.. I have no doubt that what we are hearing today.. is the same thing those of old heard. And those prophets were killed.
Last thought.. being gay is not the sin. Acting upon it is.
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: Your comments remind me of the Jehovah’s Witnesses who used to traverse my neighborhood. They are just as manipulative as the Mormons. I had a very pat answer to their religious inquiries when they offered instruction and home Bible studies, “Well, I’m not sure I’m as well versed in the Bible as you are. I’m a Seminary-trained ordained Baptist minister, and I would be delighted to have a ‘bit’ of a Bible study with you good people. A stop watch couldn’t have tracked their departure fast enough. Delightful people… and quick to catch on too!
1EqualityUSA
Marriage is a contractual document. Biblical marriage looks nothing at all as it does today. Just because you have smooth answers to all retorts doesn’t mean it is true. Planet, star who cares whether or not Kolob is a glob of matter in another part of the Universe, it is still putting molecules above spirit and place above intent. Worldly, deceptive, counterfeit cult. You are a liar and a good one. You are so wrapped up in your blanket of mythology that you cannot let others live there lives without you butting in and politically, legally working against those who do not believe as you do. You oppress others with your beliefs, adamantly sure that your way is the correct way. Christ did speak of divorce, likening it to adultery. The Mormon is a liar, counterfeit cult, a worldly, avaricious, nefarious sect. To be judged by you is nothing. Just go away and seduce some unsuspecting seeker who has no root. You spit out words without living them. One can tell, in what kind of Spiritual soil one’s roots are planted, by the fruit produced. The Mormons are counterfeit, accusatory, and twist Gospels around in circles. Separation of Church and State protects us from creepy sects such as yours. I’m done wasting my time with you, as you’ve been trained to the hilt to take any answers and turn, bend, contort them to your church’s liking. Stay out of politics, worldly one.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Hey.. I am still waiting for some sort of “Bible Study” from a “Seminary-trained ordained Baptist minister. But you are so quiet on anything Bible.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: I simply will not engage people in using the Bible as a weapon of mass destruction (WMD…remember?), especially against a heathen cultist faux Christian like yourself. I have more important things to do now in my retirement years. Good luck with your next intelligent victim(s). You won’t last long with them either.
1EqualityUSA
Dakotageo, I don’t have affiliation with any church on this Earth. Many are not to be trusted and operate using material that has been stripped of entire passages. Some add, to these remaining passages, the machinations of mere mortals and mad men and build up entire monstrosities around their falsehoods. Simplicity is hard to see. Men playing Church will never take time to hear a whisper. They are too busy wallowing in the tangled mire of religiosity to see it. They are too busy being divisive and superior to understand simplicity. The time taken to don apparel, robes, gowns, underwear, or any other molecule-laden piece of fabric tells me volumes. And, yet, they babble on.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: No.. I just think you don’t have the ability to speak of it in any intelligent way. So this is just your excuse. You wouldn’t know what a Christian really is because you are in no way acting like one.
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: What Numbnuts, the Mormon fails to realize is that marriage in the Old Testament was purely a civil contract between families that finalized who was going to take care of whom, who the inheritors were in case of death and had nothing to do with temple observances or holy marriage rites. The ‘wedding’ at Cana’ was simply a celebration of the married couple. The Old Testament never covered same sex marriages because they didn’t exist, nor had they evolved to that point in cultural advancement. Leviticus never mentions homosexuality but it does condemn prostitution and not being hospitable to strangers, which was much more important in their society than homosexuality, which hadn’t even been heard of until the approximately 1870s.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Backatcha, Baby!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: So what numbnuts wants to know.. is you telling me women were having sex with men and having children without them being their husband? You know.. kinda like today.. just living with each other?
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: LOLOL… thank you, 1EqualityUSA!!! You have hit the nail squarely on the head! As a retired Baptist minister (no more, thank God!), I saw firsthand the idiosyncrasies of internal religious hypocrisy. If nothing else, those ‘ol Baptists knew how to hate each other Monday-Saturday, but come Sunday, they were swans on a placid lake, heh heh. Multitudes have been raised to believe that one must be baptized to be saved. Fortunately, that is no longer the case in many Christian denominations. Now they can be baptized because they want to, but are not forced to. Big surprise here: The church, en toto, NO CHURCH or membership therein, can or will save you!
No robes or vestments in the Baptist churches that I know of. I wore the clerical collar and clerical shirt while on the job as Hospital/Hospice Chaplain but that was at the request of my Superiors so they could identify me at a distance for immediate contact.
Gratefully, thankfully, blessedly, I DO listen to, and hear, the still small voice of the Holy Guidance Counselor, known as the Holy Spirit. This is what has kept me going for all the years of my life. If I have learned nothing else (and Mr. Mormon has borne this out perfectly) in life, I have learned that “There people who are so Heavenly minded, they are no earthly good!” There are a multitude of that genre of christian running around at will. Blessings, peace, and Joy! You are nearer to the Kingdom than you realize! Pastor Dak!
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: Addendum: In the Baptist church we wore suit and tie, but you’d never catch me dead in a tie! My final instructions forbid any fancy “tie” business, lolol.
1EqualityUSA
I did the baptism thing, just because, if it was good enough for Christ, then I endured the procedure, as I have endured any medical procedures since. That was the last time I have stepped foot inside a church. I feel it is important to be baptized, as the Holy Spirit operates from within, and baptism immerses one’s Spirit. Christ, Innocent, allowed John to baptize Him, so who am I to say it isn’t important? As for your clericals, that makes sense. Just as nurses wear scrubs, and police wear uniforms, you are performing a valuable function in a public place and clericals assist those in recognizing your role in the hospital. It’s easy to become frustrated with commenters. The ones who are so sure of themselves, that they discount our entire existence and worth, are the ones that get to me. I’m working on that, Dakotageo.
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: You are doing well, 1EqualityUSA… it’s a progressive thing. As for baptism… yes, you are correct, not only Biblically but also for your personal reasons. I would be humbled to be your Chaplain, if for no other reason than to help you guard against these wandering religious parasites, but I think you can take pretty good care of yourself, lolol. B & P!! Dak!
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: A M E N !!! I really think Mr. Mormon thought he was taking on two or more newbies when he ran into us, and others here. It smells refreshing here now. Maybe we can liven the place up with positive, inspirational messages. C’mon, folks… have at it!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: LOL.. watching you two is really funny. Like watching a comedy at a school play. Liven it up boys! hehehe
1EqualityUSA
Sputter-sputter. Spit-spit. The more you speak, the more you reveal the heart within. You have zero interest in Salvation. You just want to be right. Your spirit is showing, liar. Your motive is evident, charlatan. Your root is planted in the nefarious imaginings of a mad man and the fruit you bear is bitter and untrustworthy. I’m glad you are laughing with glee, Mormon. If we make you feel superior, it will not have been a waste of time. You have a lot to think about as you carry on in your counterfeit cult. Let’s say we end this now, as nothing bears repeating. Redundancy is so boring. Enjoy your false sense of superiority and laugh. Kolob is awaiting your arrival so, you had better strap the family dog to the outside of the rocket and fly, MrNirom. You’ve got places to go, molecules upon which to land, and false teachings to spread around the globe as a metastasizing cancer. Seekers abound. Try Third World Countries, as they are more vulnerable to your BREAD-KING message. It’s hard to argue with you when you fill their mouths with food. Gather up your treasures on Earth, Mormon, so you can coerce others into your tangled web of deception. Carry on, and above all, show your special brand of love to all you encounter.
MrNirom
@1EqualityUSA: Your ranting and ravings even scare me. You talk of my spirit showing.. look in the mirror. You may be a child of God but until you get your brain back.. there is no use speaking to you. And your heart within.. not sure you have one.
By the way.. Kolob is a star. It is the nearest star to where God lives. It is not awaiting my arrival. All that other stuff is just your imagination playing tricks on you.
1EqualityUSA
Good night MrNirom, When you wish upon a star, your dreams come true. Have fun in life and be careful on your bicycle.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Your love for false humor is probably what led into faux christianity in the first place. For you, ignorance and arrogance is comfortable… you don’t have to take responsibility. It’s like pleading innocent from Christianity by reason of insanity. For some it works… for you? Not even close! You are a disgusting example even of Mormonism!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Seriously.. your criticism of me does not affect me at all. You are just a vile acting person who can’t have a honest conversation with someone who opposes your ideals of morality without you getting personal and degrading. The more you speak.. the more you reveal who you really are. I laugh because if I didn’t.. I would have cry.. because I am really starting to feel sorry for you.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Feeling sorry for me? Please don’t! Spare me your pretentious feelings.
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Not pretentious at all. I know if I wrote all the words you do.. and treated people the way you have me.. I would be a very miserable person and very unhappy. I feel sorry for you that you have that much bile in your mouth that you feel you have treat people that way.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Blessedly and ironically, no, I only treat people like you that way because you are so easy and play the poor victim so righteously. If I treated all people like I treat you, I wouldn’t be allowed on blogs, lolol… so I must be doing something right! Now go play with your Teddy Bear and your Mommy will bring you some warm milk and your bwankie. Nighty night…!
MrNirom
@Dakotahgeo: Yes.. because I play the poor victim. LOL I don’t feel victimized at all.. but you do try to make me one. You are just a jerk.
Dakotahgeo
@MrNirom: Thank you! And also to you! Amen!
Cam
@MrNirom:
You now are attacking me for not providing sources for my assertions. (You claim I ignored your request, but the fact is, your lying rant was so long after I didn’t bother reading it)
That is all part of “Lying for the Lord” you keep on going and going and try to fillibuster your way out of the discussion.
If you say that any of my assertions about Brigham Young were wrong, that he already had multiple wives before the Mormons left for Utah, that he married a 14 year old girl, that he was attacked by former followers for taking all of their money in a financial scam…please, by all means point out what you claim is wrong. You can’t.
As for your being on here…Look, we ALL KNOW you are gay. Homophobes who spend so much time on a gay site, thinking about gays, arguing with gays are all gay. We know that. REAL heterosexuals who don’t like gays don’t bother spending that much time thinking about us. You on the other hand keep coming on here desperately arguing….against yourself and your own feelings.
Sorry, but some twisted Mormon closet case frantically arguing and trying to defend the church is an OLD OLD story.
Dakotahgeo
@Cam: (Gee, I wish I had said that!). Thanks, Cam… I was wondering where you had disappeared to. Sometimes I get the feeling that you, 1EqualityUSA, and I are the Three Musketeers fighting the evil Sheriff of Nottingham. Geez, what a blowhard Mr. Mormon is. Happy Weekend to you!
1EqualityUSA
He learned that blowhardom from the angel moroni. What a load of hockey.
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: Ohhh, what I could do with that line! … but I will resist, heh heh. đ
1EqualityUSA
Don’t give the tender lad nightmares now. He’s fighting his “inner man” on an hourly basis. Sublimated into religious fanaticism, he fights his own conscience at the expense of his converts. His parents really did a number on him. Some people just have the need to belong to these organizations, at the expense of themselves and their gullible victims. If this counterfeit cult was worthy of such a sacrifice, it would be comprehensible. Let’s let sleeping mormons lie…through their teeth.
Dakotahgeo
@1EqualityUSA: Wow! It shur do soun’ peaceful an’ quiet here this fine mornin’! I hear God and the angels excitedly clappin’ and flappin’ their wings. All’s well on all fronts! đ Thanks Equality! đ
Cam
AAaaaaaaannnnnddddd Another one disappears after you let them know that we all know they are a closet case. The fact that he is arguing so hard probably means he’s only about a year or so from coming out.
It’s so predictable it’s sad. Well he can buy us all drinks in a year or two when he is working in a gay bookstore, forming his campuses Gay Straight Alliance or competing on Ru Pauls Drag Race.
Dakotahgeo
@Cam: Somehow, in these areas of GSA, and drag competition, my mind refuses to let me even think of such a thing! Those two items having anything to do with Mr. Mormon would be an abomination to a sensible mind. Now airport bathroom stalls
and adult bookstores… yeah, that my mind can easily accommodate for him! Cheers!