Human Rights Campaign has once again been forced to defend their dodgy ENDA poll.
The non-profit released a poll last month that claimed 68% of queers supported a non-trans inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act. Those numbers conveniently came out as outraged activists called on HRC to explain its flip-flop on the issue.
In an effort to the find the truth, The Washington Blade asked some polling experts what they think about HRC’s dubious revelations. Said experts weren’t buying it, to say the least…
Joshua Lynsen reports:
John Stahura, who specializes in survey research and directs the Purdue University Social Research Institute, said the survey’s methodology is problematic.
“They’re playing games,” he said after reviewing survey excerpts at the Blade’s request. “It doesn’t make sense.”
Conducted for HRC by Knowledge Networks, the survey shows most respondents believe national gay groups should support ENDA despite its lack of protections for transgender workers “because it helps gay, lesbian and bisexual workers and is a step toward transgender employment rights.”
According to survey excerpts, about 68 percent of respondents chose that scripted statement among three offered lines to best represent their “point of view.”
Another 16 percent of respondents indicated national gay groups should oppose ENDA “because it excludes transgender people,” and 13 percent wanted groups to take a neutral stance “because while it helps gay, lesbian and bisexual workers, it also excludes transgender people.”
About 3 percent of respondents refused to answer the question. The survey offered no margin of error.
Stahura said he “never would” structure a survey to include such explanatory clauses “because what you’re asking people to evaluate is the because.”
HRC’s Brad Luna insists they included the conditionals so that respondents could understand the “complicated proposals”. Leave it to Washington insiders to complicate democracy.
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HRC’s self-serving numbers are especially queer when compared to Hunter College’s Hillary Clinton poll. In that survey, which was also conducted by Knowledge Networks and backed by HRC, 60% of gays said it’s wrong to ditch trannies for political expediency:
When asked about the proposed federal law making it illegal to discriminate against lesbians, gays, and bisexuals in employment, LGBs (by a margin of 60 to 37 percent) said that those seeking to pass the law were wrong to remove protections for transgendered people in order to get the votes necessary for passage in Congress.”
HRC tells the Washington Blade they stand by Knowledge Networks’ scrutiny and tactics. While the polling company may be reputable and respectable, it seems to us they’ve been helping HRC do their dirty work. How else can one explain such a seismic shift in queer public opinion?
Human Rights Campaign yet again proves itself to be duplicitous, self-serving and, most importantly, cocky. The group’s self-assurance has eroded its dignity. Hopefully it can regain some or else they’re public opinion’s going to hit rock bottom. And, even worse, they’ll lose their last shreds of relevancy.
Heather_L_James
Breaking news!!!! HRC is shady and the sky is blue. Stay tuned for a special expose on the wetness of water and never before seen photographs of the pope in a funny hat and a bear shitting in the woods.
Bill Perdue
The right wing pandering shills supporting Franks fake ENDA lied when they claimed to speak for the majority of GLBT folk. And they obviously lied when they claimed that the 366+ organizations of UnitedENDA didn’t represent the majority.
From corn fed hicks inhabiting mid west backwaters to elitist dummies who despise the ‘Hoi Polloiâ€, from conservative Democrats to liberal Republicans they all supported the gutting of a desperately needed employment protections bill. IF this bill passes the Senate of gay bashers like Dianne Feinstein and gets signed by the Bigot in Chief it’ll condemn us to defeat. When we go to court or before commissions with this fake Democratic bill the scum (Dermocrats say business leaders, I say scum) who underpay us and discriminate against us will win most of the time.
The second HRC poll, conducted a by college affiliated group said “When asked about the proposed federal law making it illegal to discriminate against lesbians, gays, and bisexuals in employment, LGBs (by a margin of 60 to 37 percent) said that those seeking to pass the law WERE WRONG TO REMOVE PROTECTIONS FOR TRANSGENEDRED PEOPLE in order to get the votes necessary for passage in Congress. (My caps)â€
The first HRC poll was a lie to cover their asses from legitimate charges that they’re right wing sellouts. The thirty seven percent supporting the fake ENDA consists of those in log cabins and those destined to end their days in log cabins many of whom are anti transgender bigots. These people are continuing to move to the right at a pretty fast clip.
They’re in the process of crapping on the floor before they leave. Be patient.
Eric
Oh get off of it already. This country is not politically ready for an all inclusive ENDA. Even among the so-called GLBT community we are divided. Those of us who live on the coasts in the major cities (or the handful of other major metro areas in the interior) live in a very different world than those in the middle states. Do you honestly think the residents of CO-01 (basically all of Western Colorado…no major cities and a population of mainly cattle ranchers) are willing to accept gays, let alone our transsexual friends? Of course not, and therefore neither is Democratic Rep. John Salazer.
HRC, while not perfect, has done some great things for moving us forward. Do you honestly think that an ENDA that included sexual orientation would have even got a second look without them? No, it would not. And you are lying to yourself and everyone who reads this blog if you say otherwise.
Heather_L_James
Yes Eric, by all means the denizens of Colorado district one should determine the fate of the rest of the country?!?!? And your last comment, “Do you honestly think that an ENDA that included sexual orientation would have even gotten a second look without them (HRC)”, is like saying without Adolf Hitler Germany would still be mired in a great economic depression.
Bill Perdue
Eric, I’ve lived in and been active in leftwing, antiracist, trade union, antiwar and GLBT politics and organizing in Colorado, Nebraska, Washington, California, Arizona, and Texas for many years and I can reiterate the finding of the poll which says that right wing Democrats and Republicans like you do not represent GLBT politics in the mountain west (I’m a railroader, we get around). Like most GLBT folk they think Franks fake ENDA is a betrayal. Read the poll, then you get over it.
HRC is a self aggrandizing fundraising group, not a movement group.
Rupunzel
HRC has a long history of discriminator against transgender individuals. It’s roots are grounded in the lesbian movement and the belief that trans women can never be real women. Many lesbians of that era believed the words publishes by Janice Raymond’s “Transsexual Empire” Where Janice states trans women are trying to infiltrate women’s spaces. The rest is current history. Indeed, HRC has become more of a self serving organization that feeds it’s own selfish agenda on the backs of the LGBT community for whom they farm for their political and economic gain.
Rupunzel
Individuals who experience discrimination is more likely based on gender identity expectation than one’s sexual orientation. No individual needs to declare their sexual orientation or is one’s sexual orientation easily determined by another individual. What is very visible and what other’s use to identify how to treat and relate to that individual is perceived gender, not sexual orientation. This is why gender identity must be included if EDNA will make any difference in this society.
Eric
I am liberal and left of left so please do not insult me. I just realize that this is the right time. Moreover, we cannot have an all or nothing approach. Period. Unfortunately, most civil rights acts have only been mandated by courts. Not through political process. That is what it is going to take here, I believe.
Heather: Most of the country are “the denizens of Colorado district one.” And your analogy with Hitler is entirely inappropriate. Mass murdering genocide is nothing like having a powerful political entity that can work with Washington politicians, within the political system that we have, which works on a geological time-scale. Regardless of your feelings of HRC they are a pretty powerful advocacy organization for our community. And you are still fooling yourself if you don’t think so.
Eric
Pardon me, that this is NOT the right time.
Heather_L_James
Eric, you are wrong. Most of the country is not homo or transphobic, in fact most of them could care less one way or another. I was terrified a few years ago when I found out my only opportunity for promotion was going to be in Cleveland, Ohio. I had just begun the first steps of transition and I was leaving one of the strongest queer communities in the country for the great unknown of the rust belt. The worst I have faced in terms of “discrimination” has been shopping carts screeching to a halt and craned necks at Target. The greatest lie of the last twenty years is that middle America has anything in common with Pat Robertson et al.
Also, the comparison with Hitler is completely appropriate. There are different degrees of evil, but evil is still evil. I said a month ago I was done debating whether or not it was right to move ENDA forward without the gender identity language. To be honest I see both sides of the issue. What can not be debated are the treachery, lies and deceit of HRC and Joe Solomonese. The organization promised to do one thing, courted donations and support based partly on that promise, and then turned around and did the exact opposite of what it and it’s leader had promised. It might not be evil on the scale of the murder of ten million persons, but it is evil nonetheless.
Becca
My disappoint with HRC is very simple. They threw part of our community under the bus for selfish political reasons.
When an organization like HRC does such a thing, after stating otherwise, they are sending a message to people and politicians that it’s OK to discriminate against trans people and people that do not fit some sort of 1950s Pseudo-Puritanical ideal of how a man should look and how a woman should look.
Such a messgae will set back our entire community and our fight for the basic rights that most people take for granted.
I feel used, lied and cheated by HRC. I have always given them my financial support because I believed they really did work for the Entire LGBT Community. Now it appears they only care about the Gay Male community and until they get back on track I will not send a penny to them.
The nights have been getting chilly here and I’ve discovered that my issues of EQUALITY work very well at starting fires in my fireplace.
Matt
Gosh this is a tiresome debate.
OK, so Anyone who believes that a majority of the population of the US is ready and willing to embrace the entire spectrum of GLBT persons and issues is sadly deluding themselves. If that were the case, we’d live in a very different nation from the one we currently live in–a better one, certainly, but not the actual, current one. Believe it or not, our causes and concerns are far removed from the minds of most of the folks in the US, who are more interested in their health insurance, their paychecks, their mortgages, their kids’ soccer schedule, their favorite college football team’s performance, and (coming soon) who will win American Idol. When our issues do come up, the megachurch-attending, casarole-making, Walmart-shopping folks who make up the majority of Americans do not have a laissez-faire, live-and-let-live attitude. Hence the need for baby steps, for education, for the nastiness of real-world politics and political maneuverings.
Be of good cheer, Eric, you’re not alone. As for the outraged, anti-HRC, all-or-nothing idealists posting here, you should all definitely go vote for Kucinich, and villify HRC, and villify liberal members of Congress, and stay home on election day in a sullen huff because the Dems didn’t do exactly what you wanted. And when President Romney is sworn in, you can be sure the situation of all the GLBTs will be eversomuch better.
(Oh, and one last question for the “we-were-thrown-under-the-bus” folks: Ask yourselves, quietly and honestly (which means not while you’re posturing in outrage here), if the situation had been reversed and a bill was pending offering employment nondiscrimination protections to transsexuals and not gays and lesbians, would your outrage and willingness to dump the whole thing have been the same? I’m sure you’ll say Yes here, obviously, and call me some sort of right-winger (which I’m not) and invoke Hitler (which is silly), but listen to the little voice in your head, and ask yourself if you’d’ve been willing to accept a baby step.)
Charley
I agree that ENDA is ahead of it’s time, especially with the religious fervor of elected officials. They think in terms of safety for the corporate world against law suits. No company wants meek gay accountants showing up in pink or orange wigs, black net stockings, and spike heels. If anyone objects, or they are fired, they could take the company to court under ENDA.
Charley
HRC is a bureaucratic organization that does nothing but raise money. Compare PETA with The Humane Society. Who gets the work done, PETA.
The Humane Society is there for it’s own sake, running on bureaucratic automation, same with HRC. Well meaning people give to them because they think they are doing the right thing from the fundraising flyer they receive in the mail.
Same with the HRC. They are a non action fundraising non profit organization, posturing as a model for change.
Sonia
I think it’s ridiculous to equate the US as a whole to Colorado’s mostly rural third congressional district (the first district is Denver) represented by John Salazar (note spelling). I’m also compelled to point out that the third district of Colorado is covered by an INCLUSIVE ENDA bill enacted at the state level this year. It was NOT found necessary to dump gender identity coverage in order to enact the legislation. Like it or not, the third district happens to be a part of a larger entity, the state of Colorado, just as backwater anti-GLBT areas of Mississippi are part of the same country that contains San Francisco, etc.
If a comparison must be made, it would be better to say that the US is similar politically to the state of Colorado as a whole, which is neither exceptionally liberal nor conservative. The present legislature here leans slightly Democratic, just like the current U.S. Congress. If an inclusive ENDA could be achieved in Colorado, why not at the national level?
It comes down to cowardice and weak leadership from our elected officials and especially from the HRC. Having to whip out a transparently rigged poll at the last minute is the final “tell” about the low caliber and deceitful nature of the HRC–they even bungled their own deviousness!
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Yes, Bill Perdue, your personasl politics mirror both the majority and the success we have in Canada. This is true despite the fact that we have currently a minority conservative government.
Like all other international statistics, the American people suffer from a paucity of federal programmes to help the common worker. It is also the first world nation with the least civil rights for its minorities.
Unlike you, the many centrist and pragmatic politicians and their enablers actually defend them and their betrayals. They attack foreign nationals who have LGBT rights that some refer to as “premature” – I ask, premature on what planet?
What, full rights are good for the Union of South Africa, former Falangist Spain, as well as Catholic Belgium. I will give you the Nederland…that is a given lol.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
And oh yes, my Canada….
MauraHennessey
Well, ENDA and the Matthew Shepard Bill both seem to be dead in the water. Since removing the transsexuals was good political strategy to get ENDA through the house, lets get these bills through now by cutting out gay men. After all, the major arguments by the religious right against LGBT rights are by and large aimed at them, with references to disease, fisting, drug use and promiscuity rampant in their literature.
But there would be a huge backlash if anyone tried this tack; the transies are numerically small so it was fine to dump them.
MauraHennessey
Oh, and before anyone accues me of gay-bashing, I am not. I am quoting from the religious right’s lit. Those kinds of accusations that I listed are repulsive to all of us, rightfully. Yet I see members of our own community here talking about “showing up in pink or orange wigs, black net stockings, and spike heels.” That is phenomenally disrespectful of M to F transsexuals yet we tolerate it in the community. I’ve seen snide remarks about “lefty Lesbians” as well. Well, again, the right’s major diatribes against us center around gay men. We either stick together as a cohesive community or they will play us against each other and for expediency’s sake we will sacrifice piece after piece of the rainbow flag.
Bill Perdue
There are two interrelated questions in the debate over the Democrats betrayal of ENDA.
Frist, what are the real politics of the Democratic Party? Second, how should the GLBT left organize itself to prepare for the next period, which will be characterized by the repeated splintering of political allegiances under the impact of the war, bigotry and the likelihood of an economic nosedive?
The Democratic Party supports the war. They have no choice because their cowardly votes to fund it let Bush build huge permanent military bases and spend the better part of a billion dollars to build the world largest embassy in the Green zone, comprising a campus of 36 large buildings to house the real administration of Iraq. Whoever wins the White House in 2008 gets the war as a booby prize. They can’t leave with out losing the oil, and that’s the only reason for the war so they won’t leave.
The Democratic Party gives lip service to support of GLBT rights but really supports the bigots, so business owners who make a mint discriminating against us and underpaying us will continue to ‘donate’ to their campaign funds. Democratic and Republican politicians are deeply corrupt gutless wonders and those who think otherwise would do well to look at the real world instead of projecting their dreams and hopes on sleazoids who don’t give a rat’s ass about us.
The Democrats and the Republicans are right centrist parties. They both contain honest GLBT activists many of whom will break left. We need to welcome them, not condemn them for their past. Everyone makes mistakes.
The war will continue and get worse over time. Any number of ongoing problems likes the credit crunch, the loss of jobs to NAFTA and union busting and particularly the sub prime housing time bomb could precipitate a severe economic nose dive. It’s just a question of time.
There are already the beginnings of a general radicalization taking place. It encompasses ourselves, youth, especially GLBT youth, GI’s in Iraq, unions, immigrants and the antiwar movement. We have time to create a massive, independent, militant GLBT network and to ally it with unions, minorities and the antiwar movement in a party that can contest the Democrats and Republicans on even ground. But we have to start now. Building campaigns by UnitedENDA is a very good start. Leaving the political closet of the Democratic and Republican parties is the second step.
Robert
re: No. 12
Your last part of the comment reveals such great ignorance.
It seems, based on what you wrote, that it is inconceivable that a non-trans gay man or lesbian could have opposed ENDA. That all the outrage over ENDA is coming solely from the trans portion of the queer community. The “thrown-under-the-bus” people, in your mind, seem only to be made of trans people. Well, I’m one non-trans gay man who feels “thrown-under-the-bus” over this specific form of ENDA: it angers and frustrates me that a community should neglect and ignore part of its own in order to (possibly) make political gains. (And, here’s a non-trans gay man who is equally angry and frustrated by the HRC.)
MauraHennessey
I am a Lesbian who opposed the tactics used in the ENDA campaign. I oppose dissecting the community and leaving those who are without doubt the most vulnerable behind. It was bad politics, poor civic morality and beyond that, it weakened the act beyond how it had been compromiced already to cater to the churches and small businesses.
I was disgusted and infuriated at the lacrimose justifications and the taurine sophistries used to defend the tactics.
I agree with Bill’s suggestions on our political future. We could start off by not supporting ANY candidate who offers us anything less than equality. I think that we deserve to be equal, others seem to feel that we deserve crumbs from the table. Well, I will not settle for anything less than the feast of human rights aas as a community we ought not, either. Bill and Robert, shall we start a movement?
Zoe Brain
The question that was on the HRC poll had the following wording:
An equally well evidenced question would have been
The main objection against a trans-free ENDA was not that it would delay rights for T’s compared with gays, but that it would effectively prevent T’s from ever getting rights, as the issue would never be re-visited for the tiny T minority.
There’s evidence in both Wisconsin and Massachusetts, home of Baldwin and Frank respectively, that this is the case. In both states, T’s are still waiting for employment rights Gays got over 20 years ago, and there’s no sign that there has been any progress over that period.
Such wording should never have been included, unless the poll was specifically designed with a set result in mind.
I’ll quote a former president of the HRC on the issue:
Is she right or wrong? I think she’s right, but the point is, it’s arguable that she is, even if you don’t believe it. Given that, the wording of the HRC poll was nothing less than dishonest.
Zoe Brain
To see the kind of damage the Trans-Free ENDA is already doing – whether it gets enacted or not, see the judgment in Schroer vs Library of Congress:
This must be seen in the context of Etsitty vs Utah Public transport:
What this means is that because a bill was introduced to Congress with T-protection, but a bill that specifically excludes T-protection was passed, T’s are probably excluded from any Title VII claim now. But it gets worse than that: The court also held that
So none of the Price Waterhouse arguments apply to Transsexuals, a large part of the Transgender community.
The situation for T’s was bad before. Now it’s objectively worse. It’s not as if we didn’t know this was going to happen, either, but we were shouted down by the “political realists” who “knew better”. And who are playing games with dodgy polls.
Enough. We will not let this be forgotten or covered-up yet again, as it has been so many times in the past.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
I viewed the Harvey Milk documentary last night. The most interesting person in the film was Dianne Feinstein…the board of supervisor chair who became mayor upon the death of Moscone. This woman was twice elected mayor of San Francisco with LGB and T votes. In her successful Senate bids, Ms. Feinstein joined the DLC wing and became the Republican senator from California. She is that person today.
Bill Perdue describes your realpolitik and is always attacked by centrist LG enablers on this blog. “Comrade Bill” is in reality, someone who has described the reality of the USA today…be you hetero or homo or bi or trans sexual persons.
Adam Michael Kratt
As a Gay man, I am disgusted by HRC. As a registered Democrat I am disgusted the Democratic Party. The exclusion of our transgendered brothers and sisters in workplace protections and the HRC’s support of that exclusion shows that it has long been past when HRC was an aggressive advocate for equality and has now become a political hack organization that is more concerned with kissing the tuchuses of the political establishment then fighting for LGBTQ rights. I think a few years ago was very telling when HRC uninvited Margaret Cho from one of their events because they were worried about offending their heterosexual supporters. well.. you know… who really cares … i mean i love my straight friends and enjoy have them as allies.. but give me a break… HRC needs to stop bending over for the heteros who don’t even use lube.. and need to get of their fat butts and start fighting.. honestly fighting for protections and rights for every one.. Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersexed….. for all of our family members.. HRC.. will not get a penny from me.. and i had to scrap their decal off my car… they have let us down .. AGAIN.. it is time for our community to find alternative advocates if HRC is goinging to continue to fail out community and then to stick their finger at us with bogus polls
MauraHennessey
For days after ENDA I saw accusations hurled at inclsive ENDA supporters and much mocking of the phrase “thrown under the bus” by those willing to abandon not only Trannies, but in the end effeminate men and butch women. Yet not the same bloggers have taken up the phrase themselves to describe the outcome of the Hate Crimes Act.
Why Should we be surprised that the Democrats learned a leesson from us on political expediency? And, didn’t they promise to “come back for us later” just like we promised all of those ENDA would have excluded?
When wil we stop going into raptures over Hillary, Obama, or whatever candidate offers us crumbs of civil rights? I want equality, I want it now, and I want it to be inclusive. And in the primaries, at least, I will only vote for the candidate who recognizes my right to equality and all of the benefits of American Citizenship