“I’m sorry, but there comes a point where there is no longer any difference in trying to play politics and actually being opposed to us. If Obama, plays politics to stay in power and so to keep that power never ever moves on our rights, that is no different from a politician that runs for office as an opponent of us.
“Remember, for 8 years under Clinton we were told “Don’t worry, after he is elected to his second term, he’ll take care of gay issues, he just can’t upset people while he needs to win that second term.” and then remember what happened? NOTHING, he did absolutely nothing for gay rights after that. So please don’t tell me that Obama’s playing politics is good for us. The opposition freaked out when marriage cases went to the courts in Iowa, MA, etc… and we still won there even though we lost Ca. So speaking up and fighting is the way to get these things done. Not by replaying the passivity of the Clinton years.”
— Cam responding to “Obama’s Promise to Have Our Backs Disappears With Roman Catholics”
Dennis
Yes there is , in fact, a difference in being opposed to us…Those who are opposed to sponsor legislation to actively do harm to us, and then they vote fot it, taking time and resources away from important topics for our country…they vote against measures which would benefit us, they make speeches using us a a punching bag, or scapegoat, or to rally up an even more hateful base. We are used as a wedge issue, to divide and conquer, to accomplish retrograde goals, and to distract from other fuckery that goes on while “trotting out the gays” as a force that is destroying the country, or marriage, or the military, or whatever WRONG accusation they are making.
Cam, sorry, but were you living under a fucking rock during the Bush administration?
This post is bullshit.
InExile
Excellent post Cam.
scottie
Ever noticed how the Obama defenders always resort to profanity?
wowjustwow
Cam and Queerty would have you believe the dispute is about “speaking up and fighting” versus “passivity”. It isn’t. It’s about strategy versus catharsis, effectiveness versus self-righteousness. It’s about speaking up, fighting, and finally making some real progress after 40 years versus speaking up, fighting, and making none. Again. Just like the Clinton years.
Dennis
@scottie:
Sorry…puppie dogs and rainbows and ice cream and sweet little butterfly kisses, are the ways in which I disagree with this post.
Tim
@Dennis: Actually I disagree with you. I think politicians who claim to be for us and do nothing our worst. At least with our opponets we know where we stand. With politicians like Obama so far we invest our own time, money, resources, etc. believing that they will actively work to help us. This takes away from time, money, resources from candidates who actually would do what they say and mean what they say instead of just giving us lip service.
Nick
I don’t care for Obama, but lack of progress is better than backwards motion (which marriage amendments represent). He’s the lesser of two evils, so how is saying that defending him?
Topher
@Tim: I’m with you. I would rather have an enemy that I can see than a friend who would stab me in the back.
Leto
I think this post deserves our consideration. Dennis does make a valid point about Bush, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept what we’ve gotten so far from Obama. It is one thing to get screwed over by your opponents and quite another to get screwed over by your friends. We’ve come to expect it from our opponents, but we seem to be dismayed when it comes from a source we considered allied with us. On a brighter note, we seem to be making headway in spite of non-action by most Democratic leaders and continued compromises by most of our gay leaders. So don’t get apathetic. Speak up. Less in fighting and more focused pressures on the powers that be. Maybe we need a satirical group called “Log Cabin Democrats” so that party leader better understand what we think about their inaction!
Dennis
@Topher:
So a Bush/Cheney administration is preferable to an Obama administration? We were “better situated”, or did we have a better understanding of our situation, with our enemies in power?
You’d rather have McCain/Palin in office to “make it all clear” for us? They would make the advancements of GLBT rights occur more quickly? Or a Mitt Romney? Or Jeb Bush? Or Bobby Jindahl? Or ANY other republican, for that matter?
Please, someone, educate me on this…as I am clearly a brainwashed ‘Obot’…Please, please, tell me of ALL of the GLBT civil rights victories we’ve experienced under republican leadership. I really want to know. There must be so many to choose from, as we so clearly prosper when our adversaries call the shots.
Tell me of all the successes our movement has enjoyed when our enemies were in power, or when a republican administration was in the WH. No profanities here, I’m just waiting to be schooled…
Topher
@Dennis: Its not that we made progress, although there are instances of Republicans advancing gay rights (NH, CA Congress on the first marriage cases, etc.), but that we weren’t being fooled into believing progress was coming when it wasn’t.
Personally, I would prefer to know the bad stuff that is coming, not be surprised by it. Who saw that DOJ DOMA brief coming? I think that made it hurt even more. I would have expected as much from Bush, but from our “Fierce Advocate”?
Essus
The truism that actions speak louder than words applies in these circumstances involving LGBT concerns and the President. This well spoken man, elected on a platform of hope and change is showing behaviors that bring to mind P.T. Barnum (paraphrased) with suckers being born every minute. I am quite sure, as a general statement, we all understand that being the President of the USA is not a simple thing. That having been said, Mr. Obama’s attention and care to these issues or lack thereof (such as not being aware of the language of the DOMA brief) shows a disregard that is most disturbing. If his intention is to portray his administration as a vaunted ally and force for LGBT issues, he is failing miserably. From my perspective, as Queerty is not the only source of opinion and information used to gather information, it seems that the LGBT community is an afterthought when making choices. How appropriate you feel this perception may be is open to debate. What isn’t open for debate though is Mr. Obama’s miss-steps involving our communities and now has to labor under the aegis of either someone who has sold us a bill of goods, or as someone who is lacks the intellect/wit to understand the impact these behaviors have on our issues. Let us hope that they are made from a relative ignorance and hold his feet to the fire by any means we can to make sure that such disregard is not acceptable.
Dennis
@Leto:
I actually agree with “Log Cabin Democrats”…brilliant!
Adam
@Dennis: I’m with you. There are people here who seem to follow the ‘if you’re not with me, you’re against me’ tenet–which simply isn’t true. Tim said “With politicians like Obama so far we invest our own time, money, resources, etc. believing that they will actively work to help us.” Would we be spending fewer dollars and hours under a McCain/Cheney administration? Highly unlikely. Small victories–benefits for federal employees, signing on to the UN declaration regarding decriminalization of homosexuality–are being forgotten. Am I completely happy with Obama’s performance? No. Complacent? Certainly not. And I support Cam’s notion that we can’t simply wait and see like we did with Clinton. But would I be happier under McCain/Palin? Absolutely not (although by now Palin would have probably resigned already…). But to crucify Obama after six months in office in the worst economy we’ve seen in eighty years? Not fair.
SM
Obama is ahead of his agenda for the LGBT community vs his promises he made to people with disabilities. Its a fact.
Queerty…..same bitchfest everyday
TANK
@SM:
Nice qualifier, douche. If Obama doesn’t move on the stop loss, and gets more vocal on the necessity of federal workplace protection laws and hate crime legislation, he’s no longer my president. And I’d hope that any self respecting gay would follow.
InExile
I am beginning to wonder, is it just that he does not have his heart into the gay civil rights issues or is it a leadership problem? My point is Bush while not having a good agenda managed to ram his agenda through with whatever the policy was which, like it or not, showed true leadership. Obama on the other hand has has difficulty with everything including health care reform. Just recently he asked Moveon.org and other progressive organizations to stop pressuring democrats like Diane Feinstein to back the public option for health care. So does he have a leadership problem? These problems would not exist if Hillary was President.
Bertie
Our opponents have atleast a shred of personal INTEGRITY. They wear their bigotry with no shame.
Obama has NONE — he lies, flipflops, and would rather be adored by the masses than be held accountable for his words and deeds.
Bertie
Obamapologists sound like those vapid actors on press junkets who talk glowingly about their actor co-stars and how what important work they are doing. haha
“Oh Nicolas Cage is so generous and so smart…I would show up on the set every day and just be in AWE of him.”
(yes — and his boogers probably cure cancer too, right?)
Obama is such a smart man — he has so much on his plate — people need to understand – he is working so hard for everybody – he loves everybody equally… (just as long as they click on that PAY PAL donate now button)
Keep believing suckers –
Obama is counting the days til he gets paid tens of millions for golf dates and lecture luncheons.
Cam
Dennis, you said “Cam, sorry, but were you living under a fucking rock during the Bush administration?
This post is bullshit.”
Ok, Dennis, yes, I do remember Bush, and you know what? What I remember, is that institutinalization of anti-gay rights laws came during the Clinton administration. Just like only Nixon could go to China…and only Bush could point this country towards socialism, it is tougher for a republican to put anti-gay legislation through to sucess. When Clinton pushed anti-gay legislation the other Dems don’t know that they should vote against it. It’s coming from one of them, If Bush or Cheny pushed it the Dems would know to vote against it. So again, what is better, knowing that your enemy would steal money from you if they got a chance, so you are on guard against them or finding out that your friend…whom you trusted ripped you off while your back was turned?
______
SM- you Said “Obama is ahead of his agenda for the LGBT community vs his promises he made to people with disabilities. Its a fact.
So SM you are saying that we shouldn’t be upset because somebody else has been screwed over worse than us? That is like telling an abused woman. “Geez, stop complaining, I know this other woman who was killed by her husband so quit your bitching.
___________________________________
Attmay
@TANK:
He was NEVER my president and never will be.
All Obamunist apologists on this site earn an EPIC FAIL and an instaflag.
Adam
@Bertie:
Wait, what? Bush didn’t lie? Cheney had integrity? Our opponents on Prop8 made commercials based solely on facts? What country were you living in?
Wearing your bigotry “with no shame” does not excuse Bush for the lies and corruption that permeated his administration, nor does it make him a man of integrity. It makes him a bigot.
M Shane
It is just astonishing that very few gay people here have any sense of patriotism regarding the most urgent needs of the country. We have been on the very edge of destruction and you seem to have been beating off.
One gets the impression that most of you would as soon fuck the environment, fuck health care, screw ridding the country of torture and places of terror like getmo, forget the dire condition of the economy and give you a nipple.
Moreover, what do you want him to do, that is legal and lasting; when there is nothing he can legally do without Congress. What part of a fool makes a covey of pissing queens?
Obama has just started and, once more he is way ahead of his agenda. And we do not preclude all of America and the world; how important do you think you are?
Where were you when Clinton enacted all of this garbage?
You are a day late and a dollar short so don’t whine, wait your turn.
InExile
@M Shane: I just do not understand how ANY gay person could think his own civil rights are less important than the economy, global warming, or any other issue!
The time for us to focus on other issues is WHEN we have equal rights, not before.
Until we have our civil rights, we should be focused on NOTHING ELSE.
Tony
Excellent points Cam. The Obamabots just do not get it.
Bertie
@Adam:
Bush never promised us a rose garden to get elected NEITHER.
WillBFair
Obama is a huge disappointment, but not because of his delaying our issues. He promised fiscally responsible Clintonomics and gave us a Keynesian hog fest intead.
But of course, that doesn’t matter. It’s always all about you. But if you all haven’t noticed, we’re in the middle of an economic meltdown, and you might try putting aside the extreme selfishness for one second.
Clinton moved too quickly on our issues and was forced to back down. And the community foamed at the mouth. They were still foaming when Hillary needed help on healthcare. No one lifted a fingew, even though medical care is crucial to us, and ten times more imporant than marraige rights.
But the victim complex crowd, who enjoy loosing so they can feel sorry for themselves, and the self righteous set, for whom nothing is ever good enough and who attack even our best freinds, are still frimly in control of our agenda. Please. Try rethinking our moronic strategies before going after Obama. He’s a tad busy right now.
Random Gay Guy
This may get me called an Obama apologist, but I don’t care. The posters bitch more about Obama than they do our actual opponents. Frankly, the guy came into office with a bad deal. 2 wars, a fucked up economy, a draining social security system, a rising healthcare system, and a screwed up foreign relationships. These are all issues that affect every American. It can be expected that the beginning is going to be focused on those issues. The fact that some people are quick to say that the Obama administration has failed us is just bs. We are not even through the first year of his presidency. It really surprises me that everyone can complain about Obama, but no one seems to ever mention the republicans in Congress that will put up road blocks and try to benefit politically by opposing our rights. Our opponents have, and will continue to, actively take away our rights. If you expect some action, then get out and protest on the steps of Congress. Make calls. Write letters. It is the Senators and Representatives that actually can make a change. For the people that want to argue that the president should be leading Congress, you obviously know nothing about politics. Our politicians are not elected to take orders from the president. They are each leaders in themselves and do not take kindly to being ordered around like labor workers. The president can only ask for so much before he loses political capitol with Congress and frankly, with Health Care reform, Financial reform, a confirmation hearing, and war funding, the Obama administration has used up a lot of political capitol with Congress.
Adam
@Bertie:
No disagreement (aside from the double negative). But you seem more inclined to support a politician who has stated he intends to deprive of us our rights (McCain/Bush et al) than a politician who, having completed 1/8 of his minimum term of office, hasn’t followed through on his promises to support us. Sounds a trifle impatient, frankly.
Dennis
Yeah, I get ‘all worked up’ sometimes on this site because I honestly can’t believe what gets posted, or begin to understand the selective memory that effects so many on Queerty.
Clinton wanted the gay ban in the military ended…homphobes (mostly republican, and some democrat) had an absolute hissy fit, and DADT was the best (still awful) compromise the Clinton WH could pass through an attack oriented, republican dominated congress. Prove me wrong on that.
DOMA was originated mostly through republican hissy fits about the threat to marriage. Democratic caving in on this was truly shameful…but the ONLY (minority of) votes against DOMA were cast by democrats. Virtually every republican voted for DOMA. Prove me wrong on that as well.
Show me our many rupublican sponsored, republican majority passed GLBT civil rights victories…I’m waiting, please educate me on this, oh wise ones.
I’ve been called out today on various threads for foul language, and for schreeching myself. When sooo many posters have no realtionship to the actual history of events, and would prefer to have republicans in power, believing this would, in any way, advance our civil rights, the only sane respone is outrage.
Tim
@Dennis: No I wouldn’t prefer to have Republicans in there but there are other choices. The Democrats seem to take advantage of their liberal members to get money etc. then step back when it comes to the hard decisions because of attitudes like yours well they have no other place to go. I used to believe that and now I’m frankly sick of it. For the first time in my life I’ve considered supporting 3rd party candidates if I feel the Democrat is not supportive. That’s a victim mentality. To say well he’s better than the alternative. As someone said earlier that’s like saying I’ll stay with this guy because he only hits me where the other guy will kill me.
InExile
@Dennis: I do not want republicans in power unless the republican is a pro-equality moderate. I do not think any of the posters on this blog want republicans in office as they always use us as a wedge issue and vote against us consistently. But, by the inaction of “our democrats”, they are aiding and abetting the republicans.
Our leader in the House Nancy Pelosi is pathetically weak, our leader in the Senate is also pathetically weak, both rarely take a stand on anything and both never ever stick their necks out even if doing so is the right thing to do.
My point is, someone in Washington needs to show some leadership and unfortunately we must look to President Obama to provide that leadership, it will not come from Pelosi or Reid. Making excuses for Obama is not helping, he needs to be pushed to show some leadership on LGBT issues. By leadership I mean instruct congress what they need to do and speak out publicaly regarding these issues, not just speak at gay events that are barely covered by the media.
If he does not get congress moving soon, we will lose out window of opportunity. The way the economy and the consistent job loss is going, he may not have a second term. If all of these issues are not handled in his first term, he will not get my vote.
Cam
@Dennis: You said
“””Clinton wanted the gay ban in the military ended…homphobes (mostly republican, and some democrat) had an absolute hissy fit, and DADT was the best (still awful) compromise the Clinton WH could pass through an attack oriented, republican dominated congress. Prove me wrong on that.”””
Actually the main person pushing for the ban was Sam Nunn, a Dem, one of the larger people arguing against the Ban was retired Senator Goldwater, a Republican.
“”DOMA was originated mostly through republican hissy fits about the threat to marriage. Democratic caving in on this was truly shameful…but the ONLY (minority of) votes against DOMA were cast by democrats. Virtually every republican voted for DOMA. Prove me wrong on that as well.””
Clinton was approximately 16 points ahead on the polls when he signed DOMA. So he was in no danger of losing the election. Like Obama he would rather cave on our issues than risk anybody not liking him.
I think what the Staunch Defenders of Obama on here (Many of them straight) don’t seem to get is that you can/should criticise your politicians if they aren’t doing what you want. It is what keeps them honest. The straight defenders of Obama in my opinion feel that gay rights is just another section in the all over package of “Things that Dem’s do that I like” these include pro-choice, environmental protection, afrirmative action, etc… And since they aren’t gay, they can tend to look at all of these things equally. Therefore if the White House moves on Environmental Protection, they have a feeling of “Hey great! They are moving on my issues!!”
their argument of “Well there is a lot on his plate right now.” is a complete red hearing, there is ALWAYS a lot of any presidents plate right now. If there weren’t two wars, then we would be focusing more on Honduras or Venezuela, if the economy wasn’t in a downturn then we would be having the Israeli’s and Palestinians up at Camp David. The fact is, how can the United States represent itself as the land of the free etc… when it is currently segregating and diminishing the rights of some of it’s citizens. This strickes at the very heart of what this country is, and no politician, no matter how much I like him, no matter that I voted for him, is worth me softening my opinions on those principles. If he won’t do what he says, then he is in danger, in my mind, of becoming no better than any other politician. No better than McCain, who claims to love this country, yet knew just how unqualified Sara Palin was, but was willing to risk her becoming president in the event of his death, just to gain the power and prestige of the office. It is our job to hold our politicians accountable.
InExile
@Cam: Well said Cam!
edgyguy1426
@Cam: SNAP!!!!!!!
edgyguy1426
@M Shane: This is a GAY agenda blog, therefore, you probably will expect to see posts relating to the administration in repects to its stand and action on gay matters. Why does that preclude anyone here caring about other issues environment, economy, world politics, etc? I imagine if you go to other liberal posts you will find us there as well, arguing other issues. But to assume that we’re all wearing blinders for all these other issues doesn’t make sense.
“Wait your turn” you say. Will you be kind enough to tell us when our number comes up? When world peace springs forth? When there’s zero population growth, clean air and water? When the global economy is harmoniously humming along and no one lives in poverty or hunger? Cuz you see, there will always be SOMETHING or SOMEONE cutting in line ahead of us. We have to be selfish, and loud on this, because no one’s gonna do it for us.
SM
It’s pointless for Obama to sign an Executive Order on DADT until people make sure Congress will step up and change the law. What happens if Congress blows it off and never changes the law when Obama leaves? What happens to all those soldiers who got a pass and are now screwed.
Ben Franklin and company kind up set up America so we the people decided how it would run…and that was not just going to vote every 4 years.
Change the law.
Cam
@SM: You said “It’s pointless for Obama to sign an Executive Order on DADT until people make sure Congress will step up and change the law. What happens if Congress blows it off and never changes the law when Obama leaves? What happens to all those soldiers who got a pass and are now screwed. ”
____________________________________________________________
It’s pointless for him to sign an Executive order? Hmm, tell that to all the soldiers losing their jobs right now. Spoken exactly like what you are. A straight person with nothing to lose in this fight. Seriously, I’m glad that you say you are a gay rights supporter, but you have to understand that we are real people, we are more than just a sloagan, and your fanatical attempts to defend Obama in every single post here show that you put your loyalty to him ahead of our civil rights. That is fine, it’s not unexpected, as I said before you are not gay and have nothing to lose.
You said that “Ben Franklin and company kind up set up America so we the people decided how it would run…” Well funny because 75% of the people polled approximately want this policy gone, Obama could do it with an order, just like Clinton started the process to put it into place with an order. But he won’t do it.
SM
@Cam:
There you go reading WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. It’s pointless for him to sign an EO until you are positive Congress will step up and change the law before he leaves office are YOU HAVE FUCKED A LOT OF SOLDIERS IF A REPUBLICAN WINS.
Good God you all LOSE because you are so short sighted and emotional.
SM
@Cam:
By the way ass…spoken like a straight person? It was a GAY PERSON WHO TOLD ME WHAT I POSTED.
Congrats on lashing out!