Last week we learned of the gay bashing of Daniel Hauff, 33, and an unidentified second victim, who Hauff tried to protect from his three alleged attackers. Their names are Benjamin Eder, Kevin McAndrew, and Sean Little (pictured, L-R). And that last one, according to this news report, is a student at Loyola University in Chicago. Originally charged with misdemeanor battery, the three are now facing felony hate crime and aggravated battery charges. If convicted, should Little get kicked out of school?
According to Assistant State’s Attorney Erin Antonietti, during the train fight where Hauff jumped in to protect another rider being bullied by the three men — and only scared off his attackers after smearing them with his blood that he claimed, falsely, was HIV-positive — Little, 21, called Hauff a “faggot” during the melee and punched him. Antonietti says Little also accused Hauff of “being the other person’s boyfriend.” The fight reportedly began when Little had backed the original victim into a corner, shoved him, and began screaming gay slurs at him. (Little’s attorney Robert Givertz says his client didn’t use gay slurs and the attack was not a hate crime.)
Curiously, the event has yet to make news on the Loyola campus. A search for Little’s name on the Loyola Phoenix newspaper’s website turned up zero results. But Little is indeed enrolled there, and is a junior. He also works at the YMCA Childrens Center in Evanston, where the attack took place. (It appears, though we have not independently confirmed, the other two suspects are not students at Loyola.)
So if he’s found guilty, should his punishment — which could include jail time — extend to his enrollment at Loyola? The school’s Student Handbook, in “The Student Promise,” says students “promise to recognize that each individual person is valuable and has a unique perspective that contributes to the growth and development of all. I will respect the individuality of others regardless of appearance, ethnicity, faith, gender, ability, sexual orientation, or social standing.”
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Violations of its conduct policies, the Handbook continues, will be dealt with as such (emphasis ours): “When a student or student organization is found in violation of the Community Standards, any of the following types of student disciplinary action may be imposed. Any sanction imposed should be appropriate to the violation, taking into consideration the context and seriousness of the violation and the respondent’s prior judicial history. In cases of board hearings, a majority of board members must agree on the sanction in order to impose it. Where there is reasonable information that a violation of university policies or campus regulations has been committed against any person or group because of the person’s or group’s race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, age, disability, gender, sexual orientation, or any other characteristic protected by applicable law or because of the perception that the person or group has one or more of those characteristics, the recommendation or imposition of sanctions shall be enhanced and may result in suspension or expulsion.”
If Loyola is true to its word, this should be an easy answer.
David Ehrenstein
“If convicted, should Little get kicked out of school?”
Well DUH!!!!!!!!
Mike
I was shocked to hear this happening in Chicago (my hometown) and not something in a small southern city. I thought Chicago (which is fairly liberal) is wayyyyy beyond this type of shit but clearly this is a reality check for all of us. Most definitely these d-bags should be kicked out of school. They intentially assulted people in the gay neighborhood. They were out looking for trouble and I hope they get fucked in jail.
Chitown Kev
Good Lord, the facts people, the facts.
First of all this crime did not happen on the Loyola campus or at the Evanston YMCA but but at the Argyle Red Line stop (not exactly the gayborhood, though these guys could have been on their way home from near the gayborhood, I suspect) in the wee hours of the morning.
Second of all, while the arrest itself is a matter of public record, don’t you think that having the Loyola Phoenix giving a write-up prior to a conviction is a little unethical (especially considering the fact the he is a current student there, that might fall under the privacy laws as regards to what disciplinary measures that the school plans to undertake, if any).
And while Chicago is liberal, I’ve been gay bashed on Chicago’s North Side myself (albeit that happened back in the early 1990’s).
tjr101
@Mike:
Hate crimes and gay bashing in particular happens a lot more often than people realize in big so-called progressive cities. Here in NYC there are several gay bashing cases that are currently ongoing investigations and many of them don’t get the deserved publicity.
Unfortunately these things can happen at any place and anytime.
Since this is a felony offense there is no question he should be kicked out. Personally I’d like to see their lives ruined because of this.
Scott
I might feel differently if I were the victim but it seems a little excessive to say that someone who commits an assault should lose his right to improve himself. He didn’t commit the crime on campus. The article doesn’t say how badly the men were beaten but it seems that no one is in the hospital or dead.
The university could say that they need to make every student feel safer by expelling a violent offender. They could make this a teaching moment and force him into counseling for the rest of his time there and to regularly speak publicly about his crime and the stupidity of it.
Doesn’t the university have a policy regarding convictions? Perhaps his punishment will be automatic. That statement from the guidebook seems to cover hate speech and pranks more than violent crime. Don’t get me wrong. I think all 3 of these guys are assholes and that jail time is essential.
As a freshman in college in 1980 I unfortunately got stuck with 3 hockey players as suitemates. One of them got drunk one night and came home ready to bash me while I was asleep. Fortunately my rommate and other suitemates were able to physically restrain him until I left. 3 guys holding him down. I woke up because he threw furniture around and was yelling at them that they respected me much more than they did themselves. God Bless my roommate for locking the bedroom door. As I left he swore he would kill me. Apparently someone gave him a stern talking to as the next day he apologized to me and promised it would never happen again. There was no problem after that.
No one in authority ever came to me to tell what my options were or to see how I felt and I was too young and naive to think I had any options. Now, 30 years later, I believe I did him a greater service allowing both of us to stay present in the suite and occasionally interacting with each other. I suppose I could have gotten him kicked out of the dorm or maybe even off the hockey team. Funny, I can’t even remember his name now but I do remember my other suitemates’.
I say the victims should be consulted about appropriate punishment, rehabilitation, and forgiveness. If it were me, I’d ask his parents to come to a public verbal tongue lashing for having raised such an oaf!
terrwill
“When a student or student organization is found in violation of the Community Standards” To me that indicates that includes not only the campus, but that the students are considered representives of the university while off campus as well. Therefore that little prick needs to be disclilined by the university as well.
And as to the motivantion of the attack, One needs to look at the attackers, they don’t appear to be gang members, nor white supremasists. You got two white and one black subhuman scumbag savages here. The victim was white. I can not see any other motivation for the attack other than it being a Gay bashing.
Had the motivation been any other than Gay bashing and they called the victims “Jew”, “spic”, “nigger” or any other racial epitath the media and groups would be gathering up the pitch forks and lighting the torches. And of course not only are they disgusting savages, they are cowards, attacking 3 against 1. They all deserve any and all punsishment that can be metted out for their actions. That incluses explusion from schools and termination from their jobs.
The old adage “sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me” These three savages went beyond the name calling. The Gay community needs to take every one of these violent physical attacks as personal. You fuck with a single member and the entire commuinty will respond.
Here is contact information for the YMCA where Sean Little works, I advise sending an email and or calling showing how “little” of a person this scumbag is and should not be working there:
[email protected]
Phone: 847-475-7400
Chitown Kev
@terrwill:
If you want all of this action to be taken PRIOR to a conviction or a guilty plea than that is a witch hunt, Terrwill.
And Queert really should be hunting down the information on the other two.
In fact, they should have done that prior to going with this story. Otherwise, this looks like racial bias in retribution (it’s all in the public records, you know!).
And no, I am not defending Little because he’s black. I am saying that for Queerty to go with this without publishing similar information on the other two perps is evidence of entrenched racial bias.
B
“If convicted, should Little get kicked out of school?” If convicted (of a felony), he’ll most likely have to drop out of school to spend time in jail. The question then is whether he would be readmitted. Suspending or expelling him may be pointless if he has to drop out anyway.
BTW, the “community standards” section starts with the following:
“All Loyola University Chicago students are expected to adhere to the principles of The Student Promise, all university policies including those outlined in the Student Handbook, and all local, state and federal laws. Students are also expected to adhere to the policies and procedures of institutions that they may visit, as well as study abroad programs that they may participate in. The university reserves the right to adjudicate any case in which a student is alleged to violate any of the above-mentioned principles, policies or laws, regardless of location. Further, the university may proceed with a hearing despite pending civil or criminal proceedings. In some circumstances, the university may refer a case for criminal investigation.”
It applies to behavior both on and off campus. If some behavior is completely independent of the university, the applicability is less clear – there may be dependencies on state and federal laws regarding privacy, etc. – but there is a requirement to obey local, state, and federal laws, which the miscreant clearly violated.
terrwill
@Chitown Kev: Kev, re-read my post, I truly think one can not find another motivation for this cowardly attack than it being a Gay bashing. And even if it wasn’t they are still three subhuman savages for attacking another human being 3 to 1. If I see any info on the other two, I will gladly coctact their employer and advise that I feel employing that person is a very bad reflection on the business or organization. Same as I just did for Sean Little. Again even if it wansn’t a Gay bashing they deserve to be punished severley for their actions.
And I will co-sign your critism of Qweirty (recently renamed due to the all Johnny qWeir, all the time threads : p). Asking them to give explanation on why only info on Sean Little……….
lj
They won’t be able to attend Loyola sitting in prison.
Chitown Kev
@terrwill:
I’m not saying that this wasn’t a gay bashing.
I am saying that by publishing all of this information on ONE of the suspects (although this is more the Chicago Tribune’s fault than Queerty) and not the other two, then this appears to be racial bias in the coverage.
Ramona Hussain really should have done a much better job.
By the way, in the name of full disclosure, Loyola is my alma mater and I am also a former writer for the Loyola Phoenix. They wouldn’t report anything like this on a student…
Chitown Kev
@B:
“It applies to behavior both on and off campus.”
That was always my understanding of that code when I went there.
but come, can you imagine how many criminal offenses (i.e. underage drinking among other things) take place off campus?
B
“but come, can you imagine how many criminal offenses (i.e. underage drinking among other things) take place off campus?”
It’s the number where people get caught that is relevant. 🙂
BTW, QUEERTY might have tried to look up info on the other two and found that there wasn’t some organization that could suspend, expel, or fire them – those lowlifes might not be students and might not have jobs. Even if they have jobs, most companies do not show their employee handbooks to the general public, so there might not have been a publicly stated policy for QUEERTY to quote.
edgyguy1426
Ironically Benjamin Eder can be found on the Ricky Byrdsong Race against Hate marathon list.
Hyhybt
Why did I think, until now, that Loyola was an all-girls school?
Gurlene
@Chitown Kev: Hey honey. If he is convicted of a felony I wish him luck in getting any grants or student loans in the future when he gets out.
Many people have no idea what ex-cons face once they have payed their debt to society via prison time and are trying to start a “new life”. It is no picnic and I wouldn’t wish that type of hell on no one. Mr. Little now has to explain how he let his temper get the better of him when, as a YMCA Children’s Center employee he of all people should have had complete control of his temper, regardless of the situation. He works with kids, and we all know how temperpmental kids are.
Have no doubt people, Mr. Little is regretting he did what he did. Regardless of whether found guilty or innocent he is finished working with kids and is going to have a very difficult time getting a job that requires him to deal with people face to face if a thorough background check is performed by future prospective employers.
I bet he wishes now he had left that “punk” alone.
plasticoduress
humans have a purpose
lj
@Gurlene: PUNK? Is that what you said? I call it like it is. “Straight boy” feelings of entitlement without regard for their actions. Are you insinuating that the victim is to blame by calling him a punk? Obviously you learn nothing from this event if you answer yes to my question.
lj
@Gurlene: If you are substituting “punk” for the perps use of the word “faggot” in a somewhat sarcastic way then i willingly insert my foot into my own mouth and say sorry. Otherwise you may be the one who should write an amends. I am confused about your terminology and intent. Am i completely misunderstanding you or should i get out my claws?
terrwill
The three scumbag’s attorneys are now claiming that they cannot be charges in a hate crime because Daniel Hauff was not the original target of the hate crime, and that he was “only trying to prevent a hate crime”!! Nice bit ‘o circular logic there Mr. Attorney!!
Ohh, and the two other “angels” beside Little are “involved in charity work” accoring to their attorney……..Good for them that they are familiar with charity work, because guys in prison like to “give” also…………
Mark L.
Why do gay men LOVE playing devil’s advocate?
In every gay oriented story, you’re bound to find a handful of stubborn “love to argue for the sake of arguing” individuals who will always side with the bigots, with irrational justifications (“well, he could turn his life around. He went on a gay bashing that was unprovoked to two men in a matter of two minutes, beating, bunching and kicking while screaming f*g BUT he can change”)
I’m sick of having to be everyone’s charity case. I’m sick of being told we have to have sympathy for the other side when the other side is doing the attacking. I’m sick of us knocking our own down in order to uplift gay bashers with the false sense of hope that they change and I’m most definitely sick of devil’s advocate posters who’s desire to go against the grain on these comments sections really put them in no alternative light than the gay bashers in my book.
These guys went out of their way to harm someone who was not at all in their way. That is called psychological terrorism…how you can muster any justification for that speaks to your self loathing of our community more so than even theirs. Please go back to making critical commentary on gays while looking for “str8 acting” dudes on craigslist.
(p.s- been to a Conservative blog recently? when we get bashed to death, the comments section across the board all agree with no room for any empathy for the gay victim. If we were doing the attacking toward a random Christian? they’d all plan for a torches & guns rally at every gayberhood in every maor city. Come to a gay blog where OUR brothers are beaten nearly to death and what do you get? gay men defending the livelihood of hetros and them having to be granted a second chance. What about the gay victims FIRST chance at life? How about that?)
Dalton
Folks- Chitown Kev is the same poster who PASSIONATELY supported gays being denied service at any business who so chooses to deny us service based on our sexual orientation. He felt a photography studio in Massachusetts had the right to deny a same sex couple wedding portriats strictly based on the couple being same sex partners and said all religious individuals have that inherent right. Please keep that in mind when attempting to go toe to toe with them and pick and choose your battles wisely.
Also keep in mind, it’s very easy for trolls to get access on here, adopt a handle with the false pretense of being gay yet every intention of promoting anti gay rhetoric which rings an all too familiar bell with this particular poster.
Battmorestern
Chitown, the fact that you would:
A.) Compare the senseless beating of a gay man who was coming to the rescue of another gay men being attacked to…under f*cking age drinking tells me you really are a Carrie Prejean in a Babs drag costume. Run along little troll.
B.) Way to turn this in to a race issue. Folks, just so you know for future refrence, if a black man commits a clear gay bashing crime, do NOT say anything derogatory toward him or his past. Ever. Please find it in your white guilt to only feed him compliments or else the issue will (in a very calculated manner) be turned in to a “all gays are racist” to take the spotlight off of the gay men being attacked and actually turn our community in to attackers.
Chikev. You really think you’re folling anyone?
Anne Marie
Hahahaha. I’m sorry, I can’t help but laughing knowing all their lives are ruined…for life, at such an early age. Hahahaha. That gives me pure joy.
Three future homeless men right there.
Enjoy prison boys!
Sam
@Battmorestern: Chitown Kev didn’t make this a race issue. The Chicago Tribune and Queerty did by extensively reporting on the black guy while largely ignoring the two white guys.
Elsewhere on this site there is a lot of talk about how calling Johnny Weir “flamboyant” while calling Evan Lysachek and the scary Russian dude “athletes” is homophobia. This is the same thing. When you have three figure skaters dancing around in feathers and sequins but only talk about the gay one being flamboyant, that’s homophobia. When you have three gay bashers but only focus on the black one, that’s racism.
Sademusic4life
How did I know this would turn in to a race issue?
A gay man was nearly beaten to death and kicked in the head while being called gay slurs, and this gay site dug up fascinating info on the MAINE attacker who happens to be black (he was the one who verbally assualted the original victim and went after the other gay man) and you want them to withhold that, and say we should not be discussing his ties to the YMCA and a prominent University until we have information on the other two?
Why do black gay individuals always side with a perpetrator who shares their skin color over a victim who shares their sexual orientation?
You’re defending a man who attacked 2 gay men in a senseless manner because you sniffed out so called racism where there isn’t any in a case where there is lethal homophobia.
Dalton
Sam and Chitown Kev, it speaks volumes neither of you didn’t once in any of your posts say one thing to denounce the actions of Little and his homophobia, his violence, hatred, bashing, yet took the time to call out the inference of racism of two reputable news sources for not featuring the professional background of the other two, who based on the accounts of the story were not the ones to initialize the attacks.
Physically harming a gay man? deserves no disdain or mention from you two.
Featuring a story of the attacker who is black? RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting duality.
Sam
@Sademusic4life: “the MAINE attacker who happens to be black (he was the one who verbally assualted the original victim”
The news reports clearly state it was McAndrew who was verbally assaulting the original victim. But maybe they got it wrong. Must be the black guy, right?
“Why do black gay individuals always side with a perpetrator who shares their skin color over a victim who shares their sexual orientation?”
You’d have to ask a “black gay individual.” I’m white.
“You’re defending a man who attacked 2 gay men in a senseless manner because you sniffed out so called racism where there isn’t any in a case where there is lethal homophobia.”
I haven’t defended anyone, much less a man who has, allegedly, committed a hate crime. I called out Queerty and the Tribune on their racism. There is a difference. Why don’t you re-read my comment and see if you can figure it out.
Sam
@Dalton: I didn’t denounce these attacks because there is no controversy or debate about whether or not this crime was horrifying and indefensible. I also didn’t mention that physical violence based on prejudice is abhorrent, that discrimination against LGBT people is unjust or that Chicago is my hometown.
There’s an infinite list of undisputed facts I didn’t mention. Perhaps you could compile a list for me and I could append them to every comment I make on things actually being debated, so that you won’t attack me for not stating the obvious.
Oh, and you’re also claiming the black guy started it when he didn’t. But I’m sure that’s not racism, right?
Dalton
Yet again “Sam”…why haven’t you yet ‘called out’ Little on his homophobia?
Question of the hour.
KrisinAtl
No racism to report in this story folks, just pure homophobia.
Any attempts to turn this story in to a racist one is an attempt to turn one of these vicious animals in to a martyr they are not, and is most definitely coming from a homophobe themself.
Sam
@Dalton: Sigh. I guess you need the list. Here goes:
I, Sam, gay man and commenter on Queerty, hereby do officially condemn homophobia in all its forms, including but not limited to homophobic statements and actions of Sean Little, Kevin McAndrew, Benjamin Eder, Maggie Gallagher, Ryan Dobson, Timothy Dolan, Lauren Ashley, Rev. Martin Ssempa, Doug Manchester, Iris Robinson, Dr. Paul Miller and any other homophobes mentioned, now or in the future, on any post I may comment on.
Now that that’s out of the way, maybe you can stop using it as an excuse to avoid discussing the clearly racist bent of this post.
Sam
@KrisinAtl: Again, calling out Queerty on racism has nothing to do with the atrocity of what these men have done. Just like saying that Willie Horton ads are are racist doesn’t mean that Willie Horton wasn’t a horrible murderer.
Sam
Why is this so hard to grasp:
Racism = something Queerty is perpetrating in this story
Hate Crime = something Little, Eder and McAndrew perpetrated in Chicago
One is only tangentially related to the other. The fact that Little, Eder and McAndrew committed an horrific hate crime and the fact that Queerty is reporting on it in a racist manner are not mutually exclusive. They can both be true.
Dalton
@Sam:
Little, 21, called Hauff a “faggot” during the melee and punched him. Antonietti says Little also accused Hauff of “being the other person’s boyfriend.” The fight reportedly began when Little had backed the original victim into a corner, shoved him, and began screaming gay slurs at him.”
Care to spin that to fit your agenda, which is a clear one to deflect attention away from the blatant horrid homophobia in this case and turn a guilty man into a victim. You have some nerve to log on a gay blog and start name calling gay posters who have emotional cords hit with this gay bashing story that hits too close to home for many of us, for having a reaction toward these attackers. There’s been many caucasian attackers featured on this site and other gay blogs who have had far worse said about them and their families than stating the irony of them working with an organization that’s sole purpose is to promote advocacy (YMCA). That former (white) Miss California had her grandmother called a trailer trash c*nt on here. The difference is, when a black gay basher is featured on any gay blog, we’re threatened to not comment on their character or else the racist battle cries come out. If a white gay basher is featured on any gay blog, all is fair game. Something to be said about both the reverse racism in gay bashing incidents, and your swift reaction to take the spotlight off the homophobia of the story itself all to recreate a subtext story about latent racism to fit that agenda of yours. Your own homophobia is more pronounced than any racism I’ve observed here, and if you expected a good majority of us to not call you out on that, then you need to click the reload button and realize you’re on a gay blog where we don’t stand back and try to put a veneer on going after the ones who choose to attack us. If you do, go to town and join NOM while you’re at it, but don’t go calling the posters on here names for not joining you in that warped mentality.
Gurlene
@lj: “If you are substituting “punk” for the perps use of the word “faggot” in a somewhat sarcastic way then i willingly insert my foot into my own mouth and say sorry”.
Ok, now that you have brushed your teeth and said your sorry after figuring out that yes, I did mean it sarcastically, can we kiss and PLEASE go back to being friends (I know I don’t know you but still). No hard feelings on this end.
The person I aimed my comment at would have recognized my sarcasm. I never hold grudges against anything anyone says about me because our unasked for opinions are our unasked for opinions. Take care.
ewe
@Gurlene: I knew you had a brain Scarecrow.
Sam
@Dalton: Oh, Dalton. I’m not going to spend the rest of my night educating you on the intersection of oppressions and how racism on a gay blog both feeds homophobia and hurts us as an LGBT community. If you are completely unwilling to examine Queerty’s and our community’s racism, using the fact that this hate crime happened as your convenient excuse, then I hope that works for you. Yours will be added to the shrill chorus of white LGBT voices who are outraged when people of color don’t come support our rights – they of all people should, right? – while simultaneously making no effort to understand racism or address it when it occurs in our own community.
Therefore, I will just correct some of your assumptions about me and call it a night.
1. I didn’t just “log on” to comment on this, I have been commenting here for some time.
2. I work for a major gay rights organization, so it would be odd for me to join NOM. Likewise odd for me to be a homophobe.
3. My agenda, which I share with most people working for social justice, is to end prejudice and oppression in all its forms, including homophobia, racism, sexism, classism, agism, ableism, anti-Semitism and xenophobia. I include all these categories as part of “gay rights” because there are people of color, women, poor people, elderly people, handicapped people, Jews and foreigners in the LGBT community.
4. Immediately before the paragraph you quoted above, it says that the whole reason Little and Hauff started interacting was because McAndrew was bullying another gay rider (the “other person” in your quote). You can pick the point when Little got involved and call it the “start” of the fight so that the “black guy started it,” but by ignoring the actions of the white homophobe that came before then, you are showing your true colors.
5. The YMCA is not an advocate for LGBT rights and is homophobic institution in many areas of the country that does not recognize same-sex partnerships or families, so I am unclear what the irony is about a homophobe working for them.
6. Queerty’s racism doesn’t make Sean Little a victim. Apparently this is hard to grasp, so an analogy: Andrew Cunanan was a gay man and a serial killer. If, say, Sean Little called him a faggot, that wouldn’t make Andrew Cunanan any less of a serial killer or a despicable person. It would just make Sean Little a homophobe. Likewise, Queerty’s racism doesn’t make Sean Little any less of a homophobic criminal.
7. I haven’t called anyone a name. Go back and examine my comments and you’ll see that’s true.
8. As soon as you show me someone who has been enslaved, lynched, kicked out of a restaurant/hotel or fired simply for being white, we can talk about “reverse racism.”
I hope you’ll consider the perspective that by standing up for oppression wherever you see it, you will ultimately be helping to end your own. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Pretty heavy concept, when you think about it.
Mark L.
@Sam: “8. As soon as you show me someone who has been enslaved, lynched, kicked out of a restaurant/hotel or fired simply for being white, we can talk about “reverse racism.”
In many parts of the world, those very things are happening to gay people. Sadly, most of which occurs right here this very country.
“I hope you’ll consider the perspective that by standing up for oppression wherever you see it, you will ultimately be helping to end your own. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Pretty heavy concept, when you think about it.”
I only wish Sean Little thought about that concept and considered that prespective too.
Krisinatl
sam you really need some reading comprehension courses. In every article I read, Little is the instigator of the whole thing by taunting the original victim and being the first to attack and call Hauff a faggot. Below is a direct quote from the story right above. How is this hard for you to grasp? you’re on a mission to clear this Little guys name and it’s pathetic and I’m glad I’m not the only one who can see right through it.
“The fight reportedly began when Little had backed the original victim into a corner, shoved him, and began screaming gay slurs at him.”
Bill
I get great joy in knowing all three will amount to nothing in their lives because of this incident. Literally, this will haunt them forever. So goes life, you live with your actions and your actions always live with you. Too bad, so sad (not!)
sal(the original)
“He also works at the YMCA Childrens Center in Evanston, where the attack took place.”WOW!!HEART OF GOLD…PIECE OF SHIT!!LOCK HIS ASS UP
sal(the original)
@Chitown Kev: it happened somewhere else,GOOD…i mean not good ,still lock his hateful ass up
chango
When a student or student organization is found in violation of the Community Standards….
Whenever I read the term “community standards,” I can hear the thundering echo of a thousand lawyers going “ca-ching.”
Chitown Kev
@Sam:
Exactly.
So much bullshit on this thread. Where oh where do I begin?
@Dalton:
Proof and documentation, please.
Oh, and they were attackers, there was no one single attacker. My problem is in the racial bias of the coverage.
Oh, granted that my off campus drinking example was a bit far fetched, but I am talking about the publication of student crimes committed OFF-CAMPUS in the student newspaper.
Nothing else.
@Krisinatl:
If he is convicted of the crime lock him up. But why the focus on this black guy’s life, where he goes to school, etc. and not the other two guys (at least one of the other guys threw a punch).
Chitown Kev
@Sademusic4life:
“You’re defending a man who attacked 2 gay men in a senseless manner because you sniffed out so called racism where there isn’t any in a case where there is lethal homophobia.”
Actually, there were 3 attackers and not just 1.
It’s the focus on the one attacker that I am questioning.
Chitown Kev
@Gurlene:
You ain’t never lied about that.
It was pure and simple drunk shit, more than likely. There’s all types of weird shit that goes on on the Red Line at three in the morning.
The motherfuckers are lucky that the drag queens outside Berlin were still arguing and fighting amongst themselves at that hour and not on the train.
Gurlene
@Chitown Kev: Hey (again) honey. Hopefully this clip will brighten the day for everyone out there who always wanted to see a drag queen beat the living shit out of a “tough as nails” attacker. I mean they kick his royal ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=oYC3ehYPDI8&v=jXXjcYCUB2Y
Sit back, enjoy it and hopefully everyone will walk away happy after viewing it.
Dionte
The first and last one have evil written all over their faces, the middle one I’m not sure of, lock them up for 3 years, kick him out the school, let’s see how they deal with the homosexuality in jail.
hephaestion
If convicted, should Little get kicked out of school? YES.
And he should never be allowed to work with children ever again.
whatevah
Abolutely he should be kicked out.
Bayley
This shouldn’t even be for debate; of coursse he should be kicked out of school. My friend got in a bar fight (obviously off campus) and was kicked out of his prestigious school as soon as word spread to big wigs. This is a case of a violent criminal. The other two won’t amount to much either in their lives. Moral of the story is they are bascially going to lead the life ofa scum; fitting, as it matches their character. Piece of dirt hoodlums.
trickstertara
I’m a student at DePaul University. I have a work study and I take the red line to Lincoln Park five days a week. I’m queer, I’m certainly at risk if this guy decides to target someone with a couple of his friends again and I say kick his ass out NOW. He’s already caused a PR nightmare for Loyola. They shouldn’t even wait for a conviction.
Lukas P.
Three men committed a hate crime against another man. A brave fifth man intervened, and in so doing deflected attention away the original target and was in turned attacked on the train at or near the Argyle train station on Chicago’s Red Line, located not far from the Loyola campus or near the transfer point to the Purple Line that goes into Evanston, a city that is just north of Chicago and where Mr Little works at the YMCA, and may live.
Neither the inital crime nor the aftermath occurred in Evanston, so Queerty’s inclusion of the word in the thread’s title is misleading.
This is a also story about a hero, stepping into a situation which he COULD have just ignored. It’s also about the lack of security on Chicago’s transit system, and gaybashing. There are public safety and racial aspects to consider as well; there is university policy at play, and journalistic ethics to consider [the Chicago Tribune and Queerty, among others].
There’s also the issue of personal safety to consider: being aware of our surroundings, being able to physically defend ourselves and knowing who alert/call/contact when danger strikes. What’s the first thing we should do when we sense or come into contact with violence?
Do we intervene when we see someone being attacked? All good —and difficult —questions to ask and answer.
When bullies start bashing you what will you do?
When you see a minority (e.g. GLTB, physically or mentally challenged person, a racial or ethnic minority, etc.) being threatened, what steps will you take? What measures would you want *that person* to take when you’re being the target of hate?
A rambler
Hey there. Liked your blog post. I’m an LUC student and I just wanted to say that the university has not to my knowledge made any kind of formal statement about the incident, which is very out of character since I’ve been in dorms where all the students were called together for debriefing/tolerance meetings when a hate crime took place there. I’m on the school paper too and we only found out that he was a student when everyone else did this past week because we read about it in the papers. Loyola should have taken the opportunity to flatly denounce hate crimes as soon as it happened instead of stay mum. (P.S. The Phoenix’s article about it is being written and is going to be posted to loyolaphoenix.com this Wednesday).
B
No. 23 · Battmorestern wrote, “B.) Way to turn this in to a race issue.” Dude, you have a serious reading-comprehension problem.
My previous posts on it were the following:
No. 8 – nothing at all about race: it merely points out the rules in the student handbook (if you misbehave off campus, they can still kick you out) and that felons usually do some time in jail, making suspension or expulsion irrelevant (its readmission instead).
No. 13 – nothing at all about race: when someone raised the number of student offenses (e.g., underaged drinking), I pointed out that it was the number being caught that was relevant. I also pointed out that the other two (who were white BTW) might not have been students, might not have jobs, and that QUEERTY might not have found any organization with publicly stated rules about kicking them out. If you objected to me calling two of the gay-bashers “lowlifes”, what’s racist about it? They weren’t even members of a racial/ethnic minority, judging from the pictures.
B
In No. 56, I probably misinterpreted No 23 from Battmorestern due
to the “B.” at the start of his second paragraph matching my user name. Should read twice when a bit groggy. 🙁
james
Chitown Kev: I don’t think it was racism that made QUEERTY focus on this one guy – i just think it was lazy, half-assed ‘reporting.’ But this is an aggregation/opinion site more than a news reporting site so you can’t expect much in the way of ‘journalism.’
And for those talking about these three in prison, i highly doubt that will happen. remember, this is the same state’s attorney’s office that let that homo-hating cop in the 23rd District slide for stopping and harassing gays. I bet they get probation and a few weekends of picking up garbage on the side of the road.
Rick
@Scott: well put
Chitown Kev
@james:
Oh, you’re correct about the quality of reporting and the fact of the matter is I did state that the “race” angle began with the way the Tribune reported the story. Queerty added to the train wreck, although as a blog I don’t hold them to the same standards of high quality journalism that I would hold the Chicago Tribune.
MikenStL
When I first glanced at the pics, I thought that Little was Latino. I am still not convinced that he is black just from looking at his picture. -M
Chitown Kev
@MikenStL:
He could be both, for that matter. I know plenty of Latinos that identify as both.
B
“He could be both, for that matter. I know plenty of Latinos that identify as both.”
… like some of the others, I didn’t notice either, but I also didn’t pay much attention to the pictures.
Rick Wallace
Guy Bashing or Gay Crying Wolf?
If a person engages in gay bashing or any crime that entails battering or even assaulting another human being for bigoted reasons, then they should no doubt be prosecuted and if found guilty, punished to an extent that is commensurate with their crime. The case involving three young men accused of gay bashing David Hauff on a Chicago CTA train has gotten much attention in the media and on the Internet, as well it should. As I look at the coverage, I can’t help but notice that it is terribly one-sided and in most instances, there seems to be an unfair rush to judgment. If Benjamin Eder, Kevin McAndrew, and Sean Little are guilty of gay bashing, then they should be appropriately punished. But, the operative word is guilty.
As a former Sergeant of Police with the City of Chicago I know that there are always two sides to every story. If a person or organization only listens to one side in the development of their theoretical posture or opinion, then they will be very strongly exposed to the possibility that their position will be inherently flawed. I am making this assertion because there are many organizations whose intentions and/or missions are fundamentally grounded in morality and righteousness (some even include the word “justice” in their titles) and yet, they engage in act of prejudice and promulgate these misdeeds all over the Internet and in the media under the color of justice.
I don’t know Mr. Hauff, so I would be unwilling to cast aspersion over his character. But, I implore all people and organizations wanting to see justice served (especially any potential jurors that may have been subjected the highly prejudicial and extremely one-sided coverage of this case) to consider some of the facts that may not have been given proper attention. They are as follows:
– All reported events in the media are not necessarily 100% true and, most certainly, not necessarily accurate. In most instances, it’s not reported maliciously, it’s just that sometimes it’s hard to get the facts right. (I make this assertion, having been involved and around numerous incidents that when I read the newspaper or saw the news broadcast, it was apparent that it wasn’t reported quite right)
– Reports on the Internet, well, let’s just say it would be ill advised of anyone to place much credence in this popular, yet unregulated communicating medium without a thorough investigation of the facts. Facts, not just comments recklessly advanced and bandied about on the Internet.
– The alleged offenders in the Hauff incident were let out of custody on I-Bonds: this is rarely, if ever, done when serious offenses are involved or alleged. This indicates that the police deemed the incident minor: a judgment by professionals who handle thousands of batteries. (Misdemeanor and felony)
– The Arresting Officers didn’t think it was a hate crime or even a crime serious enough to call in the Cook County State’s Attorney Office (ASA), neither did any Supervisors at the District of arrest. (Again, deeming the incident minor)
– The first Judge threw the initial charges out. (Apparently even the misdemeanor case couldn’t stand-up)
– At the Probable Cause Hearing for the felony case, the Judge’s (A different one from the first Judge) initial action was to throw the upgraded Hate Crime, Felony charges out, but after the ASA allegedly threw a temper tantrum; the Judge rescinded his first decision and held the case over for trial. He did this while admonishing the ASA that he did not see how she was going to prove a felonious hate crime case. One must remember that weeks had gone by since the incident, giving Mr. Hauff ample time to garner possibly unwarranted support. Certainly enough time to turn it into political issue by well intended, but because of their lack of objectivity, possibly duped organizations and media. (If this is the case, it wouldn’t be the first time well intended people were duped. Remember the Duke University Lacrosse team or Susan Smith, claiming an African American man stole her car and kidnapped her sons, when in fact, she actually had killed them?
– The alleged gay youth who Mr. Hauff supposedly rescued is non-existent at this time and has never been produced. Was he in fact being picked on because he was gay? Was he picked on at all or just in a debate between loud and inebriated participants? Was he even gay? (These answers are essential and not known. Further, they won’t be known, if these guys don’t appear.)
– Mr. Hauff interjected himself into a confrontation; these three didn’t go looking for a gay to abuse.
– Mr. Hauff is an Activist, astute and well aware of the value of publicity
– Mr. Hauff has extensive experience in marketing and advertising, again, very astute and cognizant of Media value and very experienced in how to get invaluable publicity.
– Mr. Hauff’s activist colleague, Nathan Runkle of Ohio, and allegedly gay also, got lots of publicity and support, both for himself and his organization, after he was beaten outside a gay bar. (Hopefully justice was served in his case.)
– Mr. Hauff is to be admired and commended for his activism, but being an activist also gives him both experience and exposure to the workings of lawyers and lawsuit. As I shared, I wouldn’t dare cast an aspersion over Mr. Hauff’s character, but being a former Sergeant of Police, I wouldn’t ignore the theory or neglect to consider possible motives. (Perhaps the attorneys for the City of Chicago and the CTA considering these possibilities.)
As a result of this case being tried in the media and on the Internet, let’s take a look at the effects and ask ourselves is this right:
– Without being found guilty of the allegations, Sean Little is kicked out of Loyola University.
– Without being found guilty of the allegations, Sean Little is terminated from his job at the YMCA.
– On Mr. Hauff’s word alone, these young men have been vilified in the media and on the Internet and prematurely relegated gay bashers, stained forever. What ever happed to innocent until proven guilty?
– On Mr. Hauff’s word alone, these young men have to bear the legal expense of defending themselves in a case that in the eyes of the police was just a misdemeanor. Related to Sean Little that expense already exceeded ten thousand dollars and climbing. Money to which his family can ill afford.
– On his word alone, Mr. Hauff says he was intervening on behalf of a gay guy being abused. Where is this gay guy? If the guy was gay, how did he manage to escape the so-called gay bashers unharmed?
– On his word alone, Mr. Hauff has managed to garner tremendous media attention and publicity for himself and his organization
Any fair-minded person considering the above would have to say to himself or herself, maybe we should wait until the case has played out in court before we render judgment. As the uncle of the father of Sean Little, whom himself was a Chicago Police Officer, I implore everyone not to prejudge or convict in the mediums available prior to these young men being given a fair trial.
If I were asked:
– Is Sean a stupid little S.O.B.? I would say for certain, but who amongst us is free from acts of stupidity at the age of 21.
– Does Sean use ill chosen words? I would say being his Grand Uncle I don’t know, because he probably uses caution with his choice of words around me. But outside my presence, he probably does. But I would submit that everyone who uses the N-word is not necessarily racist.
– Is Sean a gay basher? My answer is unequivocally NO.
Please give this plea for true justice your utmost consideration and hold off on unfairly pressuring the politicos with their untold aspirations.
Richard D. Wallace
Former Sergeant of Police, #1960
Chicago Police Department
Paul Jenkins
Sean Little deserves terrible karma. Rick Wallace you should be ashamed to call a thug like him a relative.