The American Psychological Association, which has fought for decades against defining homosexuality as a “disorder,” now concludes there’s no way to change your sexuality, either. A 138-report that incorporates reviews of other studies includes guidelines for psychologists not to council patients that “reparative” therapy can work. On its face, it’s a stinging blow to folks like Alan Chambers and his Exodus International group, though we’ll see how critics — like those who pounced on new APA statements concluding there is no “gay gene” — will spin this.
But the real bad news is for heterosexuals who one day dreamed of being able to turn gay. Right?
Which brings us to this: Nineteen-year-old Patrick McAlvey who tried ditching his gayness with the “help” of Mike Jones, the director of Corduroy Stone, an affiliate of Exodus International. Jones engages in “holding therapy,” which is about the most homoerotic version of counseling we’ve ever heard of. (Not to mention Jones’ interest in McAlvey’s penis and pubic hair.)
j
Fucking right. We need more of this. From someone who has had far too much contact with these types of organisations, we need more of this.
schlukitz
Here is a more replete version of the APA findings. A very positive read.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805/ap_on_re_us/us_psychologists_gays
M Shane
Hopefully it will help; the fact there though is that religous fanatics don’t even believe in most science unless it doesn’t conflict with their fantasy version of things. They’re the same freakazoids who want to teach creation in the schools and don’t believe in evolution.
I wouldn’t take this the whole route of saying that there isa gay genetic makeup. They don’t know that they just know that what ever it is can’t be altered after it’s taken flight.
dgz
Sounds like this guy does “ex-gay” work to go out on dates with young guys. such a creep.
macwell
Maybe it’s just me but besides the ‘message’, I think this dude is kind of cute. Nice lips…
hephaestion
I’m glad Patrick escaped those evil Exodus cretins while he is still very young. I lost my first 40 years to their evil lies. My entire youth down the toilet. At least Patrick can now enjoy his youth as a nice normal gay young man. Good luck Patrick.
DeAnimator
This is over due. But hooray anyway.
duttybarb
I dont see the bigdeal here really. Never tht homosexuality was a mental illness per se..just see it as a perversion..like bestiality or pedophilia. i mean who really manages to rehabilitate a pedo..the only way to avoid them from attacking kids is to keep them as far away from them as possible. The urge never goes away but if they really want to they can control it if they are determined.
I believe that is what ex-gay is trying to achieve..to teach you can discipline yourself if u want to be a real true Christian by using prayer and God’s help to control yourself.
This guy is obviously more interested in sex than living a truly religious life so that his choice. Dont think this report changes anything.
petted
@dgz: Yea I got that feeling too
kevin57
I’m not a lawyer, but I wonder if a report like this could be used in a civil action against Exodus-type shrinks in alleging malpractice.
ZJ
@duttybarb: You know your religion is a lie, right? A religion based around a god that doesn’t seem to actually exist? You really think desert people from thousands of years ago had an adequate grasp of how we should conduct ourselves in modern society? These are the principles you think we should aspire to base our lives on? Get real.
Republican
Duttybarb,
There are people, such as myself, that are both gay and christian. I am entirely comfortable with that. It’s small-minded idiots like yourself who have a problem with it.
But you know what? In the end, your concerns are irrelevant. I have the natural right to think, believe, and love as I please. And that’s what really bothers the closet despot in you, isn’t it? The lack of control over the lives of others is just too much for you to handle.
Dennis
@duttybarb:
No, NuttyBarb, the only perversion here is your insistance that you have ANY moral superiority over anyone, or have even come close to any real knowledge about the true, loving nature of God. You grossly misunderstand human sexuality, true spirituality, and most likely, how to be a decent and loving mother to your poor gay son…God help him.
Wish you could “control” your insatiable need to judge others and believe yourself holier-than-thou.
cricket
well said.
kiltnc
You can contact Mike Jones and tell him what you thing at [email protected]
osocubano
@duttybarb: I’m so glad I’m not a christian!
Praise St. Angie!
well, DUH…
to duttybarb…no, homosexuality is not a “perversion like bestiality or pedophilia”.
egad, I sure hope you aren’t breeding.
Andrew
@duttybarb:
Astonishing: Assuming you watched the 7 minute video, you respond without a single criticism of the “treatment” (abuse) this guy Mike Jones was/is getting away with. You criticize the victim instead. Wow. How pseudo-Christian of you.
Andrew
@kevin57:
Kevin: Yes, were I admitted to practice in Florida (I think that’s where this took place), I’d be happy to talk with this kid about pursuing civil remedies. I hope this a-hole Mike Jones is still not out there actively abusing kids. A letter to the state attorney general might be in order, if it hasn’t already happened.
scott ny'er
whoa. Mike is a sick one.
Good for Patrick for airing this.
Andrew
P.S. Looked the creep up: he’s in E. Lansing Michigan.
Here’s his address in case anyone wants to send a letter:
Mike Jones
Corduroy Stone
1305 S. Cedar St., Ste. #205
Lansing, MI 48910-1520
(517) 371-1353
His site says he has a masters in clinical counseling from “Mars Hill Graduate School” in Seattle. And if his abuse/treatment isn’t galling enough, this prick is formed as a 501(c)3… yes folks, he gets tax-deductible funding for his “work.” i.e., trolling middle-school and high-schools for new prospects for his “hugging therapy” and shirtless push-up and cock-size inquiries. This fucker is disgusting.
daftpunkydavid
i think sexuality is fluid. i think regardless of this argument (imho distracting), people should have the right to do whatever they see fit as long no one is hurt. and no one group/community of people should be victimized because of their practice. in our so-called secular america, religious groups, arguably the most “chosen” of lifestyles, are protected by law. why not lgbt folks ?? love is love. we’ll be so much better off when we stop arguing about choice vs. non-choice.
Andrew
And lastly: Today’s Wall Street Journal article on the new APA stance on the issue… Not a great development, to say the least. Basically, the APA now says that “reparative” therapy is OK as long as the counselor tells the patient that being a homo is not an illness. A a lawyer, that sounds like a “statute” with a loophole you can drive a truck through.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950491516608883.html
AlanInSLC
Its boys like this that makes me so sad when people pray upon them to try to “change” or “reform” them to be something they aren’t. He is such a cute guy with so much to offer. Its sad that someone had to come in his life and ruin his growth at such an early and impressionable age. Good thing he figured things out on his own and has began to move beyond the torment. I hope his message is shared with anyone and everyone who is in a similar situation.
M Shane
No. 22 · daftpunkydavid That sounds good; however, in light of an overwhelming preponderance of evidence, it just is not how people work. And the human race has not improved a smidgen from when the christians were bar-b-quing each other in the middle ages.
We live in a pluralistic democracy, or Republic in which the funders made it imperative that al people wold be protected even from the masses. We need laws and even evidence of identity (in this case0 to protect people.
The freakazoid chritians , if left to their own devices would just torture every gay person into oblivion if they could. Then they would start chewing on their own , given the proclivity for hatred.
BTW; I don’t know if it is real educated professionals that perform these ‘exorcisms’ no matter how medical they make it seem.
Most shrinks now just push pills now , I believe. To many crazy people ,not enough time. Just imagine having to talk to a whole shed full of nuttybarbs, or youcan’ttellthetruth type
characters and try to make them coherant! LOL
kissmedeadly
Dear everyone…I think we would be very smart to just ignore duttybarb’s incendiary comments. I can’t begin to imagine why a person like duttybarb would spend so much time reading and commenting on a gay blog. We’re aren’t going to change her mind and she is not going to change ours. I do think it’s great that so many of you are passionate enough to fight against her, but it won’t achieve much in this forum. We know that there is nothing wrong with us. God knows it too. Though I don’t generally take the stance that if you ignore a problem it goes away, in a situation like this I think we would strip her of power if we were to ignore her.
schlukitz
@kissmedeadly:
I have mixed feelings about about just ignoring people like DuttyBarb and youcanthandlethetruth.
On the one hand, it seems logical that just ignoring someone would eventually cause them to go away. On the other hand, we have seen what ignoring these persistent religious types can lead to.
Prop8 in California is a perfect example.
I think the point that I am trying to make here, is that if we choose to just ignore these people, they will continue to believe that we are too wimpy and complacent to fight back and this will only encourage them to continue their relentless march to kill, crush and destroy LGBT people, which is their obvious goal. The less resistance that we offer, the more victories they score and the more victories that they score, the more emboldened these people become.
I believe that folks like DuttyBarb and YCHTT actually serve us in that they shake us out of our complacency and stir up our anger. That’s a good thing, because when we are angry, we will more inclined to get involved in the ongoing efforts to prevent people like this from wreaking yet even more damage upon the LGBT community. I say, get angry. Get VERY angry. So angry that these people will begin to suffer for the suffering that they have so mindlessly inflicted on our community.
DADT, the federal DOMA, 30 states with DOMA and the passing of Prop8 in California stand as mute testimony as the damage that they have inflicted on America. Witness what is currently happening in Maine…..
Do we really want to be ignoring these people?
schlukitz
@Andrew:
This fucker is disgusting.
Absolutely! He doesn’t sound any different from the RC Church priests that molest little altar boys.
His mother just dresses him differently. ;o)
schlukitz
@Andrew:
A a lawyer, that sounds like a “statute” with a loophole you can drive a truck through.
Considering the religious insanity that reigns supreme in America, I am very surprised that we do not have an “Exodus International” like organization dedicated to making black people white.
Oh wait…Michael Jackson already did that, didn’t he? ;o)
kissmedeadly
@schlukitz:
I understand your point. I guess what I meant to say was instead of exchanging hateful words with duttybarb and YCHTH we should get angry and take our anger to a forum where we can actually make a difference. Get angry and write letters to our senators. Get angry and contact Marriage Equality USA and other organizations that are working toward positive change.
schlukitz
@kissmedeadly:
Get angry and contact Marriage Equality USA and other organizations that are working toward positive change.
Excellent advice. Been there. Done that.
In fact, it’s become my favorite pass-time, when I am not busy hurling insults back at the aforementioned wing-nuts, that is. You wouldn’t deprive me of my bliss, would you? ;o)
In fact, I just got two replies back in my snail-mail box yesterday; one from my Florida State Senator, Bill Nelson on H.R. 1913, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 and another from V.P. Joseph Joseph R. Biden, Jr. with respect to the repealing of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act.
My inkwell runnth over. LOL
MackMike
So many interesting remarks here, comments that reach beyond the article itself. ZJ makes an interesting observation. Whether or not one believes in the existence of a god, or follows any one religion in particular, I am both amused and frustrated by the fact that so many who call themselves religious, know and understand the scripture they use to condemn others. They hear what a religious leaders says and accepts that leader’s perspective as the inherent word of God, or they read the Bible, Torah, Koran, like many high school students read Shakespear, with the confidence that once read, they have a fuller understanding of what they are reading. They have no contextual perspective, no insight into translations and language, and (here is where ZJ’s point is beneficial) absolultely no historical of the people who lived in that time. For instance, when Paul uses the word “nature” or touches upon what is “unnatural,” he is not speaking of the theory of “Natural Law,” which hadn’t begun to be touched upon until centuries later. Contemporary Scholarship today suggests that Paul is speaking about what is sutomary or characteristic, he isn’t examining nature as some moral force. Paul, as did the people of that time period, completely lack the concept of a homosexual nature–something that is beyond choice, and that is not necessarily characterzied by lust, avarice, idolatry and exploitation. When Paul speaks of these things in Romans, he is speaking debauchery, excess, paganism, and he is speaking to heterosexuals too. One look at Christians today, for instance, who lust after their next new car, or who just have to super size their McDonald’s BigMac meal, making choices of excess and glutony, yet condemn homosexuals based upon scripture that they have not fully studied is to see the boldest of hypocrisy and ignorance.
As for reparative therapy, it is my personal belief, having come from a background of such oppression, that it is ultimately harmful. Yet, I believe there are those who are so indoctrinated into a world of self loathing that perhaps the only path to survival is to live a life of attempted celebacy or heterosexuality. Yes, I absolutely believe that it fails nearly all the time, wrecks families and ruins lives, but there are those who are destined to self destruct, show no concern for others who may be affected (spouses and children), but ultimately how can one believe in our own freedom and liberty, but deny another from making his or her own choice, no matter how bad a choice it may be?
Lastly, I believe that the two folks who come here to contribute to the conversation may be deluded into believing that they are somehow able to save a soul, so deminished are they in their real lives. They don’t see that what they do here is bash gays, just as certain as if they beat up some poor innocent soul on a darkened street, and (of course) here they get to do it with the greatest amount of cowardice through anonymity. Can you just imagine how lonely their actual lives must be, in that they dwindle their hours here attempting to exact as much emotional and psychic harm as they can to a bunch of stangers they will never reach, rather than interacting with the real world…their own real world? Can you just imagine how ineffective and impotent they must be in their real lives, that they would turn their attentions to a gay blog to bash people in an effort to feel somehow spiritually or intellectually superior?
Their daily contributions remind me of how inadequate they are in reality, how cowardly they obviously are, how intellectually vapid they continue to be, and how very lonely their lives are that they could spend so very much time here, wishing to do nothing but hurt and punish someone in an effort to exact control that will never be theirs. And that miserable existence that they lead makes me sad on the one hand, yet places a grin on my face that reaches ear to ear.
schlukitz
@MackMike:
What an excellent commentary, Mack.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Your comments were most enlightening, to say the least.
duttybarb
When I was a child, my father held me just like that and it made me understand, made me understand that I was a girl who Jesus wanted to love boys.
kissmedeadly
@schlukitz:
I wouldn’t dream of depriving you of your bliss! I’m very excited to know that it stems not only from putting wingnuts in their place, but also from your efforts with local and national politicians. = )
We should all be doing exactly what you are doing. Maybe you can post other ideas regardig what we can all do to further our cause…or you can start your own blog. I’d be certain to read it!
youcanthandlethetruth
The APA has become a laughing stock and has lost all credibility in its pursuit of a homosexual, secularist agenda.
The same organisation that decided homosexuality was no longer a mental disorder has since invented thousands of bogus new disorders like “compulsive shopping disorder” for shoplifters and “oppositional defiant disorder” for unruly kids.
It’s no coincidence that the number of “disorders” has grown almost as quickly as the number of Psychology grads leaving University and seeking careers.
No doubt the APA itself is suffering from Delusional Disorder when it tries to deny all the evidence of homosexuals who have voluntarily been rehabilitated.
DeAnimator
@duttybarb: So your dad molested you? That explains a lot.
I’m pretty sure Jesus isn’t down with molestation. Or hate. 🙂
But hey, I’m only basing that statement off his teachings so, clearly I’m way off the mark.
TANK
@duttybarb:
I just puked in my mouth a little bit. Thanks, piglet.
MackMike
@youcanthandlethetruth: And Obama was born on the planet Zeenon. Oh woe the intellectually incapacitated!
DeAnimator
@youcanthandlethetruth: I heard they also have a “compulsive douchebag disorder”. My guess is you fit for Axis 1.
TANK
When I was little I accidentally walked in on my parents fucking, and I realized then and there that heterosexuality was morally wrong. It’s evil. I mean, look at what it involves…plus, my sister’s a cunt. So there’s no upside.
TeleUte83
@youcanthandlethetruth: Funny, here the APA is actually buttressing its reasoning for REMOVING a disorder from the DSM.
youcanthandlethetruth
@TANK: Thanks for sharing.
Well the music means our time is up for today. We’ll pick up again at the next session.
Remember to leave your check with my secretary.
youcanthandlethetruth
@TeleUte83: Exactly.
The APA wants to remove the real disorders and create all these bogus ones.
That’s why they have no credibility.
TeleUte83
@youcanthandlethetruth: “It’s no coincidence that the number of “disorders” has grown almost as quickly as the number of Psychology grads leaving University and seeking careers.”
So you state that the plethora of new disorders recognized is a function of more psychology graduates, suggesting that it is self-serving, to ensure future business.
Putting homosexuality back in the DRM would provide them more business, no?
This seems counter-intuitive to me.
No logic. Next argument.
schlukitz
@youcanthandlethetruth:
all the evidence of homosexuals who have voluntarily been rehabilitated.
And under what pile of rock, in what cave, and what part of the other side of the world, might we find this “evidence”?
The facts, Ma’am. Just the facts.
schlukitz
@youcanthandlethetruth:
The APA has become a laughing stock and has lost all credibility in its pursuit of a homosexual, secularist agenda.,/i>
I know. Ferdinand Magellan thought the earth was round.
Galileo thought he was the father of modern science and had improved astronomy.
Copernicus though that the earth and all the other planets revolved around the sun.
And Sir Isaac Newton babbled on about gravity or some such silly notion.
They too were the laughing stock of Europe and lost all credibility in pursuit of scientific knowledge.
Why couldn’t they just listen to the Church who already had the answers to these issues, like everyone else?
Fucking trouble-makers and heritics!
schlukitz
@duttybarb:
When I was a child, my father held me just like that and it made me understand, made me understand that I was a girl who Jesus wanted to love boys.
Was his fly unzipped, PuttyHead?
duttybarb
No. 33 · duttybarb
Can the real duttybarb please stand up???
Whoever you are…cute but not funny.
duttybarb
@ schlukitz
You really must be old if you think i would say something like that.
I see we are still justifying the homosexuality is normal..
schlukitz
@duttybarb:
Guilty as accused.
On both counts! LOL
So, it appears that someone is putting peni…er, words in your mouth?
schlukitz
@kissmedeadly:
Thank you for the kind words.
I really can’t come up with anymore creative idea other than the suggestions you made.
As for blogs, I think the bases are pretty well covered by Queerty, Advocate, Wayne Bessen, Pam’s House Blend, Towelroad, JoeMyGod, David Mixner and a host of other fine blogs already on line.
schlukitz
@youcanthandlethetruth:
The APA wants to remove the real disorders and create all these bogus ones.
Yep. Just like God wanted to remove the real humans (hets) and create all those bogus ones (mos).
Until, of course, she realized what a huge mistake she had made and called the deal off.
That’s why she (God) has no credibility.
Youcanthandlethetruth
I know of what I speak; I was able to successful rehabilitate and leave my homosexuality, with its agenda, behind me. The trouble with you people is that you don’t know discipline, it is possible to turn away from your compulsions. I turned away from meth and alcohlism, and I’m pretty much weened off my sister now.
TANK
weened off your sister? What?!
DUTTYBARB
@Youcanthandlethetruth: you are so right, these perverts just can’t seem to understand the idea that they have a personal choice. I remember graduating from my 12 step and anger managment classes, and then when all that was left to overcome was kicking helpless dogs and stepping on birds who fall out of the nest (which I only have to worry about during spring, after all), I realized that you can overcome anything. I hope to overcome kicking the dog by the holidays, but until then I’m telling people that I am just ‘tripping’ over them.
Jesus Christ is my personal savior, but he doesn’t save mother f*%king dogs, ’cause they have no souls…just like those f*%king perverts!
DUTTYBARB
By the way, I am struggling with my eating addiction. I’ll get back to you later, I’m on my way for my evening feeding at McDonald’s (who would have though you could go 8 times in a day?!)….le sigh, soon I’m going to have to put in a slider, because I’m having trouble squeezing through the double doors. Though shall not commit glutony–yeah, like God meant that!
Youcanthandlethetruth
@TANK: that’s what I said, Bitch, and with her hair cut short, and when she doesn’t shave her legs, she is pretty much irrestible; besides, at least I’m not a homosexual.
Where does the APA stand on incest? It must be ok…I mean, it’s in the Bible.
TANK
@DUTTYBARB:
LOL! If it were anyone else, I’d have a little empathy, but fat fucks like you deserve to suffer.
schlukitz
@Youcanthandlethetruth:
and I’m pretty much weened off my sister now.
That is soooooo fucking funny.
I’m ROTFLMAO!
schlukitz
@DUTTYBARB:
Whoever wrote this (it sure wasn’t PuttyFace) has a fantastic sense of humor.
My sides are splitting and tears are running down my cheeks after reading this.
Between the youcanthandthisdick and the PottyFace parodies, I can’t remember when I have had such a good laugh.
Thank you. Thank you.
Youcanthandlethetruth
@schlukitz: Who said that you can’t be hopeless bigotted, hypocritical and funny at the same time?! Gotta run, my sis just walked by with a Budwiser and some pretzels…God, if she belches we’ll never make it to the bedroom!
Sorry…didn’t mean to say “God,” oh, dear Lord, you have to watch me on that…oh….God, I said “Lord!” You have to forgive me, if she just shaved her legs, I’d not be so rattled!
schlukitz
@DUTTYBARB:
I’m on my way for my evening feeding at McDonald’s
Would that be anything akin to a hog-slopping?
schlukitz
@Youcanthandlethetruth:
OMG. Stop it! You’re killing me.
I’m in stitches and my slides are splitting from laughing!
schlukitz
Typo: “Slides” should be “sides”.
petted
I’m laughing – I shouldn’t but having a sense of humor what else can I do? If the charade continues I suspect we’ll see much less of these sorts
DeAnimator
@schlukitz: Ahahahaha
Joey
this is probably horribly innapropriate, but he is really really cute.
youcanthandlethetruth
Hey look I’ve already got my first imitator.
And to quote from the Book of Proverbs
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”.
schlukitz
@youcanthandlethetruth:
Aww…your bashfulness and unassuming manneris becoming, but there is no need to be modest with us.
You’re among friends. And what are friends for, if not to support you?
Let it all hang out. I mean, who among us is without sin, eh?
EarleyDaysYet
Ack, “rehabilitation” – I saw a documentary on one of those: gay guys being taught how to BBQ, shoot, wear flannel; lesbians being taught how to wear dresses & heels, style their hair, cook, sew… ¤shudder¤
*I* would have failed that course! When “rehab” means “learn to act like Mrs Cleaver”, it’s just rampant ethnocentrism. “Normal” is so very, very subjective.
Lencierosic
Credit you for details. It helped me in my responsibility
Shana
I’m really sad and angry that this happened to you, Patrick. I can’t image how damaging it was for you. But it is encouraging that you are finding healing and hope and that you are speaking so honestly about yourself. I am a Christian, but it breaks my heart that there are Christians out there who can be so damaging and who lack insight and compassion. I hope the best for you.