Blogger Dalton Heinrich channels his inner Carrie Bradshaw in a new post published on gayguys.com.
“Why is it a social norm of ours to be in our late forties and going clubbing and bar hopping multiple times a week?” he writes. “Of the hundreds of grown men I know, why are so few of them actually grown up?”
Heinrich writes that “as a young gay man whom does not have a single parental figure to aspire to be” all he wants is a role model, someone to look up to and show him the way.
“Why are there so few gay men in my life that look at the next generation as someone to mentor and coach rather than a new addition to their dating pool?” he wonders.
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Heinrich has a theory: That gay men suffer from what he calls “Peter Pan Syndrome.”
“[A]ll gay men are terrified to grow up,” he hypothesises. “The abundance of thirty and forty something’s that attend nightclubs persistently and dress like they are going to a college frat party is astounding.”
“This portion of grown men clinging to the wild nights and serial dating of their twenties seem to live in a secret Neverland,” he adds. “These Lost Boys that are terrified of actually looking their age and are always fighting off time instead of aging gracefully and being something helpful for the young gay man to idolize?”
He concludes: “The sad, thirsty man haunting the shadows of 18 and up clubs is slowly killing our culture. When my generation of gays gets older are we going to think that is the normal thing to do with our nights?”
“It is time to tell Peter Pan that you want to go home and as much as it may not be the funniest [sic] thing to do, it is time to grow up,” he says.
Despite the post receiving over 7,500 “likes” on Facebook, not everyone agrees with or appreciates Heinrich’s thoughts. In fact, most commenters are upset by the post.
“‘Settling down’ and having kids does not define maturity. There is no reason to live our gay lives based on the way straight people do,” one person wrote.
“[T]here is a population of older men (40+) who grew up during a period where homosexuality wasn’t as widely accepted when they were in their 20’s,” another person added. “[T]hey hid their sexuality, so they feel that they are making up for those ‘lost years.’ ”
“When I saw the title I thought it was going to be a reassuring article about how it’s okay to get older as a gay man. This article instead made me feel like I should be ashamed to go out just because I’m in my 40s,” another person commented.
“Want older gay role-models?” someone else said. “Try looking outside your own shallow existence of judgement and cliches!”
We think Madonna, who turns 56 tomorrow, said it best back in the early ’90s, when she told an interviewer…
erasure25
…and bars will shut down because no one is buying any drinks… Certainly not the under/unemployed millenials.
friscoguy
“serial dating of their twenties” how does he know this about them? My experience has been that guys over 40 who are out having a great time are it because they DID NOT do it in their 20s.
GayTampaCowboy
FIRST, let’s remember that blogs/articles like the one in question are written to GENERATE ATTENTION/FOLLOWERS. When i read blogs/posts/articles with far too many statements including the words: ALL, MUST, etc – that’s a “red flag” for me that the author is attempting to kick the virtual gay bee’s nest.
Such glittering generalities (look it up, it’s a type of writing style) like “if you’re over 40 you should stay out of gay bars” are similar to other such shit-storm-generating topics like:
– all guys on apps and websites are ONLY looking for sex
– PrEP is just a green light for men to be the bareback whores that all men are
– effeminate gay men give all gay men a bad reputation
– all men with HIV got it because they are reckless whores
I think you know where i’m going on this.
I really don’t give much credence to the validity of this article. It’s just meant to be incendiary – and clearly it worked.
I mean, we ALL know that if it wasn’t for gay men over 40, bar owners (who are ALL OVER 40) wouldn’t be open long – AND, who do you think is really paying for those “free drinks on tuesday nights from 9pm-11pm? ahahaha
schwma
Oh, he definitely needs a role model — someone to wash his mouth out with soap. He posted this on his twitter:
“Just a general tip: If you are fat, like morbidly obese, DO NOT buy a pit ticket at a concert. It’s disrespectful and tacky.”
https://twitter.com/daltonheinrich
jks1113
Would love to be around when this pup is in his 40s to see how “desperately he is to hold onto his youth” Children
crowebobby
They don’t have to stop serial dating and going out to bars in order to accommodate your idea of what’s natural and seemly, for the same reason you don’t have to find a girlfriend, settle down and have kids in order to accommodate what the straight world thinks is natural and seemly. I say “they” because though I’m 77, the only reason I don’t go to gay bars is because I know they’re full of prissy, self-righteous little “what are you doing in MY tree house?” girls like you. Also because you can’t drink till you’re 21 in the U.S. and that’s already out of my preferred age-range. So bite me, Mary!
Maude
“Rent-a-Penis”!
lcandela123
The blogger is very judgmental. Also, he thinks there is a set pattern for acceptable social behaviors as one ages. If a person deviates from this, they are faulty, they have a “syndrome”.
In my opinion, the right questions to ask are, “Is a person’s behavioral dysfunctional or destructive?” If the answer is “no”, then the next question is “Does the person’s behaviors make them happy?” If the answer is “yes”, then stop, and MYOB.
Does the blogger need to be reminded that poor behavioral choices are certainly not restricted to the over-40 group?
TVC 15
I’m 40. I only go out once (sometimes twice) a month. Interestingly, it’s the guys in their 20’s that seem to hit on me more than guys around my age. In part it’s because I look younger. I’m not being an ass about it, and it’s not that I try to appear young; I just do. It’s flattering, but I’m not interested in them.
I go out to socialize with guys my age, so I tend to go to parties that advertise for guys 35 and over. But you’d be surprised how many young guys go to those to find a “daddy.”
Cam
Here’s a thought, maybe you only see the men who hang out in bars…..because all YOU do is hang out in bars. If you do other things you will meet other people…..Dumbass.
lcandela123
@GayTampaCowboy: You really nailed it. Bravo!
AtticusBennett
While no doubt worded to gain controversy, a point he makes (and would have made better without saying “over 40”) is that there’s a time and place for being real about what you want in life.
I used to bartend in NYC, and a regular customer (in his mid 40s) was always coming in, complaining about how “invisible you become when you turn 40” – which was a shock to me, at age 26, as i had a 41 year old lover. the man’s real issue, that he ignored? he only had eyes for early-20s twinks. who tend, by and large, to usually be into other guys their own age.
so, he was only “invisible” in the sense that he himself was not interested in guys his own age. you can’t fixate on the impermanence of youth.
the blogger, however, is just making broad strokes to gain attention. go to The Eagle. go to Woody’s, go to any bar that functions as a gay watering-hole congregation place; not a nightclub, and you’ll see All Our Brothers – of all ages. as it should be. a place to congregate.
personally, one of my fave things to do at the gay bars is strike up convos with those “elder gays” – you know, the ones who came out decade(s) before me, who opened the doors for all of us, and helped give us a com minty and culture and place of congregation in the first place.
Franco C.
Last time I checked people were free to go wherever they please.
Scribe38
I go the the bar once or twice a month, tops. Mostly at a bear bar where most patrons are my own age (40) or older. It’s a nice place to play pool and socialize. The bar also sets up volley ball and softball teams. This dude seems to forget how hard it can be to find other gay men to hang out with. God knows there are plenty up hook websites if an older dude just wants to f*ck, but the bar remains the place to meet new friends and interact with peers.
TVC 15
@crowebobby: Ha! Love it!
RIGay
Okay… going into bars is one thing (don’t even THINK about coming between me and my martini!), but guys over a certain age wearing A & F and doing the glo-stick accessories… I caught sight of that at Pride this year. There comes a point in ones life when they need to own the fact that, yep, you ARE becoming an old fart and stop thinking “50 is the new 20!”; it ain’t and it don’t look cute.
Oh, and cut the dye job.
Celebrate age! Own it.
TVC 15
@AtticusBennett: @Scribe38: I agree with both of you. These things tend to not be an issue at the neighborhood watering hole, leather bar, or gay sports bar, which are the bars I go to. You see all ages there, and everyone’s cool about it.
tham
This dumb ass should hang out with divorced 40 something guys…they make middle age gay men look like amateurs.
So tried of self grandizing 20somethings, regardless of sex
HighStrungLoner
“Of all the scary turns my life could take, ending up as one of the middle aged party men cruising the night clubs for a one night stand that concluded with me having breakfast alone and hung-over the next morning, was by far one of the worst.”
Then don’t do it! Doh!
skyeyes
This guy wreaks of bitterness and jealousy. He’s afraid of getting older, that he isn’t going to be attractive to the younger guys once he crosses over the threshold or something stupid.
The other articles that he’s written are all in the same vein. Angry, bitter, bitchy … so rail against the >40 crowd on the internet if that makes you feel better. Just wait, you’ll be there soon enough. 😉
friscoguy
@RIGay: Eww so glad I am not a judgmental db like you.
Oh and please share the expiration date for wearing A&F? Oh and have you ever been to Europe? I doubt it with your narrow-minded thoughts but if you ever do you will soon discover that they don’t have hang-ups like some Americans (IE U) have and you will see many men over 40 wearing A&F.
I am more interested in why it bothers U so much if someone chooses to wear a particular brand of clothing.
And for the record NO I do not wear A&F.
Hillers
Tick tock, tick tock, young Dalty. When the day comes and you blow out those forty birthday candles, you’d better lock the door, turn off the lights and stay inside, only coming out to mentor boy scouts, garden and volunteer at the local homeless shelter. Like a good little Christian–I mean, older gay male–should.
Mike
Bitch bitch bitch……
mz.sam
Wow, another (aging?) writer desperate for increased readership (and employment) with editorially redundant sensational titles and useless polemics. Major Fail journalism!
arig82
This is not just a gay issue, I know a slew of heterosexual men in their 40s who still live trapped in their 20s. This I attribute to… wait what the eff do I know I’m only 3o and I am not an effing anthropologist. Maybe the problem is that we as a community need better clubs and bars. Maybe we need wood paneled professional cigar bars, with marble flooring and comfy lounge like leather chairs?? Who knows. What I do know is that I do not miss my 20’s and I sure as hell do not miss clubbing several times a week. I love getting home to my better half, and because of this economy, that is the one thing that I do miss. Now we have a relationship that consists of phone calls, phone-conferences and 75% travel. Silver lining (AIRLINE MILES)… Oh well, I have to admit that I did roll my eyes when I read the article, or scanned it because who the hell has time to read anything? In summation, 1) we are a community that is aging out in full view and need better shit, 2) Give the guy a break everyone needs to make a $$, 3) There is no such thing as a dating pool, it just happens stop being so effing tribal. Oh, and thanks for reading my rant..
-That is all.
Mike
It would seem that not much has changed from when I was in my 20s and my friends and I would look at guys my age now (44), and say “God, I hope I’m not like that when I get older!”…. Bitches.
BRENT
@schwma: Should you be going to a concert at all if you’re morbidly obese? Of course not. You will be hideous to look at, and you may well have a coronary.
pjm1
I am not sure where Mr. Heinrich is looking to meet people with interests other going to bars and partying — in bars and clubs? There is a community of gay men and women who do not party or go to bars (though maybe on occasion some of them do to relax). Many people are involved in the community, volunteering, meditating, working and some are in long term monogamous relationships. This group of people have chosen to live the way they have and one is not better than the other. I would also say that becoming a person of character, integrity and ethical conduct (if that is what Mr. Heinrich means) mostly an individuals own responsibility, though, you should surround yourself with others that can help but the others do not necessarily need to be gay.
Also, I would suggest that Mr. Heinrich could be a bit kinder with some of his comments though as a writer we can understand that he may want to be a bit controversial.
Gay Snagglepuss
I understand the article. I am 54, let me explain to the little one. “WE” made this culture. We didn’t copy it from straight people. What we didn’t take into consideration is that “PROLONGED ADOLESCENCE” is not attractive when one hit 40’s. This is not a new problem and many many gay guys know when its time to grow up. I have not stepped into a gay bar since 40. But I have friends that want me to go, tell me I am not dead. I get that, but I would hope that I could enjoy the world at large and not just the gay bar at my age. Gay men over 40 need to start building a culture for themselves, Palm Springs is a good start. Many men there are retired, they have friends, do dinners, go on vacations, have homes. The bars are there but the men are older. I know we inherently like to dance, but it is a little weird to be 54 and going to a circuit party. I have a friend who’s son is in his early 20’s and he asked me, “What is up with the old guys at the bars”…I told him, “You will be there sometime”, he didn’t believe me….no 20 somethings believe they will be there until they turn 29!
wiredpup
Someone needs to let princess know he’s not going to stay young and pretty forever.
Zocket
He needs a role model to teach him grammar.
ibernard
The absolute goofball who wrote that posting about “over 40, stay out of gay bars” is way off the mark.
First off, while I am 54 and haven’t had an ounce of plastic surgery and DON’T go to the gym (five spinal surgeries, thank you), I get carded when I buy beer (state mandated) and I usually hear “oh my God!!! You’re 54? I would have thought you were 38 – 44!!! And I just walk away with a smile on my face. And if I feel like going to a gay bar, I’m going. If I want to dance, I’ll hope it’s classic disco, and won’t bother looking for a partner, because I had 24 friends (including 2 cousins) pre-decease me. Life is yours for the taking guys (people). Life is also what you make it. Mentally? I feel 37. And I know I’m not suffering from any “Peter Pan” syndrome. You circuit queens certainly are. Oh. And if I decide to go to a bar, it’s probably 4 times a year, max. Barring fundraisers for AIDS/HIV or something else.
I’d tell you to grow up, but that doesn’t seem to be on your agenda. And all my students (in their 20s) think I’m more fun than their parents!
AGEISM is the problem. Not the solution. You’re throwing down a dividing line.
I belong any place I feel like going.
And boy, do I have a lot of fun…alone! And the pictures I bring back…(professional photog here!)
LIVE!
CARPE DIEM!!!! SIEMPRE!
Ann Mason
@Zocket: Whom needs a role model to teach him grammar?
Sorry. I couldn’t resist.
yaletownman
I dunno, while he might be over generalizing I don’t believe he’s completely off base. Gay culture is very “bar-centric” no matter what age you are and not everyone is into that though it might appear most are. Being over 40, not into the bar scene, most of the friends my husband and I have are not gay men anymore. We don’t find the things we’re looking for in bars. Things like deep, intellectual conversation, sober connections and a diverse, well rounded life. Most of our friends are either straight or lesbian couples, the same but with children or straight or lesbian singles. We enjoy seeing our friend’s children grow up and participating in their lives. We enjoy meeting at each other’s homes for a great meal and conversation or meeting at restaurants, taking trips together, etc. We also tend to be folks who enjoy alcohol in moderation. There was a period where I mostly wanted to party and have lots of sex. I still do but now it’s just occassionaly. Most of the time I now enjoy a more subdued existence and my husband and I haven’t been able to easily find that with other gay men.
Maybe it’s hard because, what binds us together as gay men is our sexuality and our desire to connect in that way. Maybe it’s difficult to have more than that with each other because it’s hard to take that off the table. I’m not going to sit here and condemn people who like to go to bars and participate fully in the activities the bar life can lead to. It’s fun but I do think there are those who want a more diverse life experience and have a hard time finding that within the gay world. My advice would be, don’t just rely on the gay world to provide that for you. Broaden the people you allow participate in your life. Accept the fact that not every area of your life may find fulfillment within the confines of the gay community and then maybe you won’t feel so “victimized” by the bar scene and the gay community.
redcarpet30
Oh wow, he’s an incredibly pretty young white boy. Shocker.
Gayguys.com is the Buzzfeed tripe of the gay world. All it is is clickbait for gay guys that doesn’t really say anything of substance other than what is needed to rile people up for more clicks.
skyler
Why is it the people who know the least babble the most?
tdh1980
Youth, the one privilege that’s temporary for all of us, thank goodness.
Lvng1tor
I should no longer go out and spend my hard earned money away from the house I own cause I worked for it because I’m 42 w/ a 48yr old boyfriend and not appreciate that I work out for an (ok not great but…) nice body cause this 20something has Daddy issues? F@ck Off Junior the adults are having adult time.
Sure there will always be the chicken hawk nasty I never wanna grow up preying on the young jagwads but there are also a lot of great guys to talk to who are over 40, 50, 60 who are so much more than a guy at the bar. Sure they may be goofing around, laughing, dancing showing off or what ever but many of us worked hard for a life where we CAN go out and have fun and enjoy this world. Some of us also have our own business’ are successful and GASP DO MORE THAN JUST HANG AT BARS cause we do exist even when a 25yr old isn’t seeing us.
Aaron
I’m 25.
I’m sorry but I don’t wanna be going out to the bars/clubs every other weekend when I’m in my 40s. If you are 40+ now I can understand. You had it way worse growing up at my age. I am fortunate enough that I grew up in an accepting environment. I’ve been partying it up since I was 17. The whole thing is starting to become very redundant.
I go out almost every Friday and Saturday night in Denver. I’m single and I want to flirt with boys. Sometimes I run into men that are in their 50s and are wearing clothes that people my age wear and are singing along to current songs on the radio. When I look at them I tell myself, “I do not want to be that guy when I’m his age. Fuck that.”
NiceNCool1
Or as Madonna also said, “I’m not your bitch, don’t hang your shit on me.”
MarionPaige
Yet another example of someone copying shit The Bitchless Blog did 10 years ago.
Aaron
I think it’s okay for the 40+ gay men (of today) to frequent the bars/club but not for the millennial generation when we turn 40. By they we will be assimilated even more into society. I’ll be 40 in 2028. I don’t think it will be considered admirable then.
jar
@yaletownman: I find it amusing that you project your life as “more well-rounded” and “diverse,” yet you are unable to maintain relationships with gay men because you only feel connected to them sexually. Seems pretty limited to me.
Stache99
@AtticusBennett: “he was only “invisible” in the sense that he himself was not interested in guys his own age”
I know plenty of guys like that in their 40s and 50s. They would rather wait forever on hook up sites and bars and complain about no one interesting wanting them. Of coarse that’s code for young. They have a peter pan love life. Their attraction was stunted to exclude anyone over 30. It generally only works though if you have lots of $ or a big ol dick.
JohnMc888
I’m older than my forties and I interact with young guys – gay or straight – and I really admire their talents and attitudes and they appreciate that I love them and just appreciate their bodies. No sex, although one wants to initiate it and loves talking with me about his sexual interests and adventures and lovers. But also his dreams for his talents, and the way he applies himself to his projects. I don’t go to bars. I stay home and pursue my creative projects, and interact casulaly with most, although with one I talk 1-3 hours 3-4 times a week.
Young guys like to talk about their futures, their dreams. Listen.
We do get better with age, but later maybe. For the young guys know I wish only happiness and a good life, with or without me.
[email protected]
He lost me at “whom”.
erick70115
“Peter Pan Syndrome” has been discussed for decades usually as it applies to men in general and I certainly didn’t spend my life listening to what society said I should and should not do just so I could be told by some random gay guy how I should be living my life. Perhaps he should realize that a lot of those older guys were on the front lines fighting in part for a society in which this prick’s sexuality doesn’t mean he’s doomed to pain and the closet. I fought in some of those battles and survived and I’ll do just as I please, needing zero approval from him.
erick70115
@[email protected]: Oh yeah that was a whom out of sync much like his fucking opinion 🙂
Lvng1tor
I would love someone from Queerty to tell me what is wrong with the comment they just blocked. No swearing, no name calling and was actually very positive…Seriously Queerty you need to review your auto flagged software cause it’s B@llSh!T (bet that gets past all the censors and everyone still understands what I wrote!)
wpewen
Firstly, to each his own. If a young gay man wants to surround himself with mainstream gay culture, right on, but…
I’m 56 came out LA felt lucky also felt oppressed. Disco, gay slang, nigtlife.
None of the men shown in the photo I can identify with-I didn’t find men out in the gay community when I was in my 20s i could want to emulate. Didn’t try. I’m not into ‘straight acting” but I guess that’s what I am. I generally emulated straight men. Men old enough to be my Dad. Sometimes I worked for them.
As I’ve grown older I’ve realized how much I like men, straight men that gay friends of mine don’t care for so much. I can’t imagine it being any other way. A family of three brothers, males are basically all I know. Never as an adult felt bad about being gay. Don’t get down on fems, don’t talk much to them as we don’t have much in common. Yeah, I’m fairly masculine and proud of say,my past physical strength and the kinds of work I’ve done. I’d advise young gay guys to look outside the gay community for role models and to men you’d like to be like,(
erick70115
And to all those older Peter Pans out there – if you’re a decent person and we cross paths, I guarantee I can get some of the Lost Boys together to go fight pirates with you again.
Lvng1tor
@wpewen: I think what you are trying to say is:
Don’t let anyone tell you how you should live your life. Find where you feel comfortable and be comfortable with that.
To not let someones sexuality define your mentors but the content of their character
….Is that right? Cause otherwise ya come as kind of a self hater saying “I’m not like most gay men…I’m masculine…I’m better cause I pass for straight and hang out with the majority…not the minority”
That’s not what you are saying, is it?
erick70115
@Aaron: It’s OK not to want to be that guy, it’s about having options including the option to be like that or not.
Stache99
@Aaron: I’ve had those same conversations many times when I was in my twenties. Those older guys partying with us. I feel so sorry for them. I know I’ll never be like that when I get to their ages. Then you get older and you realize that the more things change…the more then stay the same. Every generation thinks it’s going to be different with them.
ronsfo
Dalton Heinrich has a very ageist myopic view of Gay men over 40 and very naive. Take if from an old Disco Queen, I turned seventy this year, I came out in the early 60 in San Francisco, there were no role-models. My role-models were the drag queens and social outcasts the in Tenderloin, gay bars were being raided and people were being thrown in jail, we have come a long way, then to listen to this “twit” put down older Gay men for not growing up and being stuck in a Peter Pan fantasy. Have you forgotten the older LGBTQ community that blazed the trails, the people that marched, endured murder, violence, stigmatization, we fought hard for the equality enjoy this superficial twinkie enjoys today.
You want role models? Create your own, we had to.
At 70, I go to the bars on rare occasion, but the real enjoyment in life is being with friends: brunch, dinner parties, picnics, camping, Burning Man, traveling around the world, the list is endless and enjoying life.
Maybe Dalton could find interest in an article about Prime Timers World, an international organization of older gay men and their admirers with over 10,000 members.
http://www.primetimersww.com
Stache99
@erick70115: Great and I’ll bring my big magic sword. Arrhhh..:)
Stache99
I have to say of all the posts I’ve read on Queerty this is the one that I’ve actually learned something from and I don’t mean the dipshit author of the post. Great comments and I for one really appreciate them.
I think this is what we as a community are suppose to be about. Being role models to each other no matter what stage of life 🙂
IcarusD
@Cam: THANK YOU! My very point. The only 40+ people he knows all hang out in bars because that’s where he hangs out. Those who aren’t hanging out in bars are having dinner parties, going to the theater, and basically going everywhere where this guy isn’t.
Life is what you make of it. I’ve known people complain that San Francisco is too fast and others complain that it’s too slow. They live in the same city but they’re engaged in very different lifestyles.
erick70115
@Stache99: Sounds like fun – let me go find my scabbard, call Tinkerbell and we’re good……
wpewen
Trying not to come off as “I’m masculine,better,majority” Am trying to convey how I feel as a man who happens to like to get it on with guys. And at 56, I’ve had my share of trips laid on me by straight and gays alike.
I just never found many gay guys to emulate. I don’t seem to feel the need to sexualize as much as a lot of gay guys. The men who have been important to me and helped me in terms of self-realization have been straight. I do like being around men a lot more than women, sometimes they are gay men but if they are flaming gay dudes NO. And I’ve been around em all. Generally I emotionally do better around straight guys I think because we can be friends without any b.s about Eros, women make me run generally cause they seem to want interior decorators….
P.S. The group “Gay Bros.” makes me cringe.
IcarusD
@friscoguy: That’s true in my case. I didn’t go out much in my 20s and early 30s in part because my disposable income was lower and in part because I was more career focused — and also because I was shy. When I got laid off at the age of 36, I decided to start approaching life a little differently. A midlife crisis of sorts, I suppose. And then when I eventually got a new job, I made a conscious choice to not go back to my old rut.
Wilberforce
This is the standard attitude of ignorant young queens. I listened to it nonstop from my friends in my 20s. I thought that people would wise up on a few issues as the years went by. They haven’t, and it makes me sad.
On the other hand, you can’t fix stupid, so there’s no sense getting upset by them.
Wilberforce
I take it back. Reading the comments here, I see that people have wised up. This guy is the exception, and not in a good way.
erick70115
You go to war, survive a plague, fight for equal rights and then be told by gay guys to act my age? Many of my friends don’t have that problem because they died and oh my how I wish they were still here to go dancing with me again. Maybe even terrorize a few know-it-all twits……:-)
Richard L
I totally disagree. I’m not going to pay attention to someone telling me since I’m over 40 my gay activities are limited. I’m blessed and constantly told I look many yrs younger and where ever I go I’m getting cruised and offers to hook up including the bars on the few occasions I go to them. Age is just a state of mind. When I do go to the bars I act my age and always converse with different ages and have a great time and go for a bite to eat if I meet someone.
Thank you for reading.
Blackceo
To each his own. I’m 36 and don’t even like the club anymore…haven’t in awhile actually and don’t need to go since I’m boo’d up. Give me a bar where I can have some drinks and converse without having to yell and deal with sweat flying all over the place.
Even in my 20s I remember saying that I never wanted to be the old guy in the club. But thats me. If u r 40s and 50s and still going to the club then have a good time.
erick70115
This conversation for some reason reminded me of the parking lot scene in Fried Green Tomatoes – TAWANDA!!!!! youtube it 🙂
vive
What an idiot (the ageist blogger). Good comments on average.
What is ironic is that these same twentysomething guys who are ready to issue death certificates for 40-something gay men would find it admirable that their fun great-aunt still puts on her dancing shoes and goes out at 70. What is it that makes the one despicable and the other admirable to them?
erick70115
Here’s an example of what the author thinks is a cute tweet dated august 10, 2014:
“Fun date idea: Compliment me while I shop online with your credit card.”
uh huh……sure
phishy2
I’m 51, gay, but have not really been to a gay bar or club for over 10 yrs since I became sober 10 1/2
years ago. Was not exactly part of my long term plans, but crap happens. And I still go to lots of concerts
and plan to continue until I die. The 20somethings are usually just standing with glazed look, not moving to the music one bit. I vow never to stop looking at the hot guys, younger or older.
Steve
SteveDenver
Straight people go to bars after 40, too.
It’s one thing to have a puny brain and limited scope, it’s another to write about it as if you’ve had an epiphany.
CHOAM88
I’ll admit the author is right.that there are many gay men that need to grow up, but I’m not sure telling them to avoid going out to a local gathering place is the answer. From the aspect that it may be a latent exploration because of the delayed liberation, who am I to tell a guy who might.have been afraid to be public twenty years ago that he can’t be public now? Also, how can I tell society not to judge me based on their criteria and find me at fault for being gay while I judge people by extraneous variables? This author sounds like he’s very immature and very limited in his thought range.
Matt G
I don’t think the original author said anything about “All gay men over 40 need to stay out of bars”….. the title of this post is needlessly inflammatory.
I think a better example of internalized ageism and men with maturity problems would be the guy looking for someone 21-35… and they’re 45. When someone doesn’t include their own age in the range of guys they’re looking for, that’s jacked up. I also don’t understand what a 35 year old and a 21 year old would have in common other than sex. I’m 30 and some of my friends that are 25 are pushing it…
DistingueTraces
It’s a little funny to me that “stop going to bars” is being read here as “die”.
There’s no particular reason why middle-aged gay men shouldn’t hang out in bars — but there’s also no particular reason why young gay men should hang out in bars.
Go outside, get some exercise, put some color in your cheeks!
reece99
Thanks Erick70115;
you caused me to remember what a great time the 70’s and 80’s were until HIV came along and killed so many friends. We had a fantasy back then to grow old together, buy a big house or two, and enjoy each others company until we died of old age. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.
This dick head that wrote the article, and thinks people over forty owe him something, well he can kiss my ass. Those of us well over forty fought long and hard to get here. This twit author is enjoying benefits that we could only dream about, equal treatment in the military, gay marriage, hospital visiting rights, inheritance laws, and more than anything else, the ability to be who you are where ever you are. (except maybe Georgia).
The next time he sees an older gay man in a bar, maybe he should by him a drink and say thanks.
asby
@Aaron: Wait!!! Now we should not listen to current music?
erick70115
@reece99: The arc of my life and perhaps yours too has spanned being arrested for just being in a gay bar, living in the closet suffocated by fear to disco inferno to sex could kill me to gay marriage and then the feelings at long last of peace and pride. This kid has no clue and since he describes himself on his twitter feed as a “sexpert” he apparently isn’t looking for one either. Cheers to you reece99 my fellow warrior/survivor 🙂
Daniel-Reader
He’s young and poor and desperate for attention. If older guys are comfortable in their skin and having a good time, he needs to rain on their parade. Misery likes company and he wants others to join his gloom-cloud. I say whoever is having fun and enjoying their life should avoid folks like Dalton. Emotional vampires like that are everywhere and best ignored to wallow in their situation. Some folks just cannot be happy for other people no matter what.
glad2bme
This blogger has a real head start on being a bitter old queen. Gonna be mighty interesting when he turns 41.
vive
@Matt G, regarding intergenerational relationships I think we should leave it to everyone to decide for themselves if they have anything in common other than sex. And by the way, it’s a bit weird that 45 and 35 really seems wrong to you – ten years is very little difference at that age range and such relationships are common. They’re even both “generation X.”
Paco
I doubt the blogger, or others that share his opinion, will be singing the same tune when they hit their forties and fifties. I can only hope he is confronted with his foolish youthful opinion in the future when quiet basket weaving in the old folks home doesn’t fulfill him like he thinks it should be fulfilling for us.
Tackle
It seems like many of you guys. did not actually read the article: Carefully. And from the way that so many are responding, obviously
a nerve was struck.
And those of you who are calling him names, you prove his point that so many gay men are good at everything but growing up.
I thin it’s great that a young gay man is admitting a need, and expressing a desire for a role model. In our quick celebrity, and every gay tom,dick and harry who comes out is instantly put up as a role model ,when they lack wisdom and life experience, it’s refreshing for a young man to express his desire for a role model.
Just a couple of weeks ago we had Blake Skjellerup giving bad, unclear advice. We have Micheal Sam
who would show up and collect any and all awards given to him by gay organizations, believing that as a role model and hero, he’s deserted. And Sam is not the only one with this mentality.
And for the record, Dalton clearly says guys in their late 40s and who go clubbing & bar hopping (multiple) times a week. And I’m going to agree with him about ” Dead end at maturing”. With that type of lifestyle, how can one mature?
And for everyone crying ageism. So I guess it’s ok for a 40 -50 yr-olds to seek out and run after 20yr-olds, while rejecting guys in their age group?
One thing I do disagre with the writer about: is this type of behavior (older guys clubbing) is killing the culture. That’s an over exaggeration. Gay culture will live, and is here to stay.
Stache99
@BadSeed:In a business sense I get that. If you want to be known as hip place to go having a reputation of just older people would most likely kill your business. It’s not personal but I get your annoyance.
Andrew Yang
@erick70115: I was just about to say this. There is nothing novel about this term, nor a need to hypothesize on it as it has been discussed for quite some time. This is so boring!
BadSeed
@Franco C.: Well, yes, in theory we’re free to go wherever we want once past the threshold age, be it 18 or 21, as may apply. (It’s been too long since I had to worry about that.) However, in the course of getting on the email list of a popular San Francisco bar recently (named in fact as the “Best Gay Bar of 2014” by a local publication) I was asked to categorize myself as to age. Why was I asked unless the intent was to filter the list? Because I had reason to suspect that I had been dropped from the list several months before on the basis of age, I lied. (Not for nothing am I “BadSeed.”) If anybody reading this comment is connected to this or any other public accommodation that does similar, let management know it is playing with fire or at least glowing embers. BTW, I think it was journalist Randy Shilts who first appropriated the term “Peter Pan complex” in the early ’80’s in his effort, hugely successful at the time, to scapegoat bathhouses for AIDS transmission.
sethzhere
I am 51 and enjoy life. I love one blog called Gay Life After 40 ..it is different than these sites that only cater to the youth. http://gaylifeafter40.com
Andrew Yang
@sethzhere: Thanks for this my friend. I am 39 but have never found young guys attractive, even when I was 20. I always preferred the older more mature men for a variety of reasons. I checked out the site and it seems rather interesting. Thanks!
Black Pegasus
As I scanned the article and comments thereafter on this subject, I came to realize that many gay men over 40 today came from a generation where being gay was (and is) considered an abomination. Thus most of them (with some exceptions) made themselves invisible by marrying women or remaining closeted. Not very many role models from that group of men for younger gays of today to respect and admire. Of course this can be the fault of a bigoted society who oppressed gay men since time immemorial. So now that society has moved forward to a “new age”, who can blame older gay men for wanting to gather where other gays (young and old) are gathering? Unfortunately, the only places for many of them are the gay bars and clubs.
However, I predict a change coming in the decades to come. Many of the young liberated gays in their teens and 20s will remake “gay culture”. With young gays having their equal protections under the law, I think many of them will live vastly different lives than the generations before them who were forced to remain closeted simply for survival. While the Peter Pan syndrome will still afflict many in the emerging generations, I believe many of these older, educated 40-60yr olds in the decades after 2050 will create their own spaces and will want no part of the youth centric club scene.
_____________________
For context: I’m in my late 30s. I neither agree nor disagree with the blog post. My thoughts are just observations based on the discussion.
money718
Haha. So it continues lol
sethzhere
When your 40 and above, you don’t ‘should on ” yourself anymore! “Don’t should on yourself after 40.” This means living a life where you free yourself from the should’ve, could’ve, and would’ve statements from your vocabulary. I am so happy to see guys fighting this sort of ageism and stupidity !
http://www.gaylifeafter40.com/dont-should-on-yourself/
mcdfishfilla
This is similar to when mature gay males use the words boi.
Stache99
@Tackle: To make my point clearer he used one example and then broad brushed an entire group of people. Then he goes on to say you just stay home as if everyone over 40 is guilty of it. Of coarse people are going to call his BS out.
Your other point and his about guys exclusively chasing after young tail I get. That’s pathetic.
Stache99
@Tackle: The problem Tackle is that he’s not consistent.
“Why is it a social norm of ours to be in our late forties and going clubbing and bar hopping multiple times a week?” he writes. “Of the hundreds of grown men I know, why are so few of them actually grown up?”
If you read between the lines you’ll see that he’s referring to just guys that he sees when he’s out at the bars and clubs. In his world it looks like it’s a universal problem. Yes. Guys that are out at bars and clubs are drinking and having a good time and tend to let loose and sometimes not act not their age. Everyone does.
Notice he didn’t talk about guys over 40 that socialize in other settings. Something that he’s completely clueless about himself. It’s a very one sided observation that would make someone like Regnaris proud.
tardis
Live your life however you want it. I don’t want to do the bar/club scene when I’m in my 40s, but that’s on me and no one else.
sethzhere
@Andrew Yang: Yes Andrew on Gay Life After 40.com , I see guys my age and not always a twink. I like diversity. Its so boring otherwise. I don’t understand why that blogger wants an exclusive age at a club. Boring!
LeonAW
This is too ridiculous to even waste time composing a serious rebuttal. He’s dismissing an entire group of gay men based on the behavior of a few. Shame on him. I disagree with any “rule” the begins “If you’re over ___, you can’t/shouldn’t ____.”
Fifty can be fabulous. Its become my life mission to prove that life doesn’t end in the 40s. I’ve created a comedy web series about it, Old Dogs & New Tricks, we’re starting our third year this Fall and have received MANY nice messages from viewers like this one:
“I found your page and your show just before I turned 48 3 years ago. I was ready to call it quits, thinking I was too old to ever hear the words…you’re a cute guy, wanna show me how high you can throw your heels up for me boy. It’s because of you showing that life only just begins at 50 that I bounced back.”
If you want to feel GOOD about being gay and middle aged, please check it out, and let us know what you think! http://www.OldDogsNewTricksTheSeries.com I’d really love to hear from gay men our age!
Saint Law
When I was his age I used to worry about appearing immature as I got older.
But I grew out of it.
Milk
@RIGay: There comes a point when you are hating people who behave differently from you and you get all judgy about it. It’s not them . It’s you! What is it to you if they like to dress and behave younger? Not like you are interested in them. Unless they manage to take the attention away from you.
Chris
Dear Mr. Blogger, As to your complaint that, instead of being role models older gay men are going to bars, tough. We never signed up to be role models.
Elloreigh
I can honestly say that I have zero desire to be a role model or mentor for any of today’s youngsters. I really don’t think I have anything useful to teach them, and they don’t think so either from what I can tell. Too much has changed in the last 30 years of ‘gay life’, and I’ve not been much of a part of it even when I was younger. I’ve never fit in, even with ‘my own kind’. So I live a fairly isolated life, consisting of work, spending time with my husband, and visiting family once or twice a month. As for friends, no one that we see more than a handful of times during the year. We’re basically hermits, happy with each other.
I don’t get young people, and they certainly don’t get me. So why would I bother? I don’t, and that’s that.
Elloreigh
@Chris: Exactly. I didn’t have gay role models or mentors when I was younger. I certainly don’t feel any obligation to provide such for today’s kids. They’ve got it way better than I ever had it on that front. We were invisible, a dirty little secret that people only whispered about.
Stache99
@Elloreigh: Sounds like you’re living a life that’s authentic to you with a good relationship with your husband and family. Well, whether you want that status or not you are a role model.
Tsucy
I find this discussion fascinating. I’m one of those 54 yr olds that is clingng to my youth, proudly!
I came of age in the 70’s with many gay male mentors and role models. It was a different time, though, and I was a different person. I enjoyed the company of older men, our conversations, their insights into life, and sometimes the sex. I thought i’d always prefer older men. Then those older men became my age. I see them through different eyes now. They are my peers and I appreciate them. Many live married lives with varied interests. Frequently we meet at bars for social time. But I’m still a single man and I’m looking for a connection.
Recently I decided to live my life more freely. I attend different types of events and social gatherings, and love to find find places that allow for social drinking and conversation. I’m wearing more colorful and youthful clothes and feeling more at ease with my creative side. Peter Pan? I don’t care what you call it. It’s my life, I’m more than half way through it, and I spent a lot of years working hard to make ends meet and suppressing my nature to fit in. I’m gonna dress, act and feel as young as I want. I have the luxury of living in A progressive city where anything goes… except the judgement.
I’ve been dating young guys the last few years, some as much as 30 years younger. Do I pin hopes of marriage on each of them? Of course not. I like to think I’m able to give something to them to enrich their lives, whether it’s an anecdote, story or trivia, or just a touch of stability, and I appreciate the things they bring to the table and time they share with me.
There’s no reason my life should be any less exciting, or social than some twenty-something’s life.
We should all be out there living life to the fullest, free from judgement.
Geoff B
As someone who is in (barely) the “over 40 club and as someone who actually works in a bar (Irish sports bar and grill). I have 2 thoughts. As a 40 year old, I give zero f@&ks what someone who is 25 thinks about nightlife. I’ll go wherever the hell I want. If I’m at a bar, it’s for any number of reasons and none of them are to pick up some vapid d-bag like this blogger.As a bartender, I wonder what kind of arrogance it takes for some entitled little taintclown to dictate who does or doesn’t get to go where. As a bartender, you know who I want to stay out of bars? Bad tippers, mean drunks, and entitled jerkoffs who presume to dictate the guest list while not actually owing, running or working at a bar. Wouldn’t surprise me to find this blogger is all 3.
Tackle
To those of you proclaiming that you did not sign up for, do not want to be, and have zero interest in being a role model for the younger generation of gays, ( news flash) by default you are.
I didn’t sign up for it either. But as a member of an oppressed minority, , despite all the advances in equality, those of us who are in our 40s, 50s 60s and beyond, who are well adjuste, and happily functioning in society, should have some wisdom, experience and knowledge to pass on, If asked.
Yes you do have a choice. No one can make you. But the idea of taking a pass, with the excuse of, I didn’t sing up for this, shows the highest form of selfishness, laziness and cowardice.
What it boils down to many times is, if sex is not involve, then I ddon’t want to be involved. ..
winemaker
This is an interesting article. I’ came out several years ago in Los Angeles in the very late ’70’s. I’ve lived in San Francisco since late 1981. i’ve found the men in both Los Angeles and San Francisco to be either two types: Rude, nasty, arrogant or aloof. If you don’t meet their ‘type’,they give you attitude and are ill mannered. A lot of them don’t get it and haven’t learned if you’re not interested, don’t be arrogant, but politely decline the offer, ’nuff said. The other type of guy’s I’ve met are stand offish and judgmental before even getting to know you. This has been my experience. I stopped going to bars years ago as the kind of men I encountered there basically gave me attitude or were too smashed to carry on a decent conversation. I recently turned 60 yrs. of age. I’m lucky I don’t ‘look my age’. What is that? I’m in relatively good shape, don’t smoke, or use recreational drugs, try and eat right, go to the gym regularly, although I recently underwent spinal surgery and had to take a break from the gym. I used to weigh 378 Lbs. when I came out in 1977. I can remember having been shut down so many times and how it hurt, but this made me strong! It seems some gay guys think with their crotch and don’t give a chance to what could become someone significant in their lives. Gay men in their 40’s have much weisdom and experience to offer, having been around the block a few times!
atx78641
There are so many things wrong with the post…but to me it boils down to respect.
I am 48, and when I was first going out to clubs when I was like 18 or so, the clubs were never very packed, even though I grew up in a good sized city. The reason? The generation of men ahead of me were either dying or scared to death. I WOULD HAVE GIVEN ANYTHING to have had a generation of men, older than me, who I could call friend,
Where is the respect for all the struggles that those of older have been through so this so called writer could even enjoy going to a club without fear of being exposed…or without (for the most part) being thrown into jail.
I did not join the Air Force, which I really wanted to do, imply because of the line threatening a $10000 fine and prison for having sex with a man.
I am not asking that this child respect me..all I have done is lived my life the best I could with my held up high. I just wish he could see that shutting himself from those who he may find too old to be attractive, is in fact, cutting himself off from his own history. I hope he learns before those of us who are proud of who we are and proud of the entire community shove his ass back in the closet and lock the door.
cdtooth
I’d like a role model who can use the word “whom” correctly.
Tackle
@atx78641: Not trying to be mean here, but did you read and comprehend what the writer wrote? I believe the writer would have great respect for older men who presented themselves in a mature way. Of course he’s not going to just respect someone just because their older. Respect should be earned.
And In no way is he shutting himself off from those who are older. On the contrary. He would love to have older men in his life as a mentor or coach.
The ones who are cutting themselves off from their own history are the 40-50 who constantly chase after 20-30 something crowd. Those are the ones shutting themselves off from those they find too old to be attractive .
vive
@Tackle, who gets to decide what is the “mature” way for a gay man to behave? There are plenty of role models – but he just doesn’t like the role they model. So why doesn’t he just join a book club if he wants more demure role models? I think the blogger is just sour about the hot older men outcompeting him for the tail he thinks should belong to him by dint of his youth.
And lots of 20-somethings hook up with 40-somethings precisely because they are looking for role models, and yes, I think that is a legitimate way of learning from more mature guys. (And not just about sex, but yes, also the sex is often better than with their comparatively inexperienced contemporaries.)
vive
And yes, when I was younger I used to love hooking up with older guys – hot, muscular, active older guys who had interesting things to talk about, interesting houses to see, were hot in bed.
Seeing them out and having fun, and briefly dating some of them, helped reduce my own fears about growing older. For that reason, nowadays when on occasion I hook up with a significantly younger guy I am always honest about my age – and I have had more than one tell me that the way I look and the way I act helped make them less afraid of growing older.
Kieran
Why doesn’t Youth Blossom give us all a cut off age so we know when we’re supposed to “go home”, “grow up” and stop having fun or being seen in public? Is it 25? 30? 35? 40? 50? 60? 70?
If it weren’t for the older generation of gay men who challenged and fought homophobia in society thirty, twenty or ten years ago, the young gays of today wouldn’t have the rights and privileges they now enjoy and largely take for granted.
It’s not about age…it’s about whether someone can turn you on.
cvdixon29
That’s why ageism is pathetic! I find older men more attractive and better lovers, They know what they want out of life. People younger than I am, generally want a few things such as money,quick sex etc. I say Go to the bars regardless of age, If someone isn’t interested in you, then they aren’t. Get over it and don’t get your feelings hurt so easily. Our Community faces enough issues from the world and creating more for ourselves such as ageism is one we don’t need. Date who you prefer!
BadSeed
No, it should be “whom you prefer,” not “who you prefer.” Please, don’t take after the creepy blogger who started all this and whom we should revile!
jonahfalcon
Maybe he should wonder why those 20somethings are going home with those 40somethings and not him.
jar
@Black Pegasus: The closet did not prevent the emergence of gay role models in generations past. The nature of the closet is isolation, so the person in the closet would not have access to role models. Prior to the advent of AIDS, there were plenty of role models. There were people who formed new gay and lesbian publications around the country, activists who led the fight for our equality, g&l politicians entering the political arena, gay shop owners creating safe spaces to shop and dine openly (it may seem particularly strange to the young, but the act of two men going out to dine together was once frowned upon, even without sexuality coming into play).
If there were a dearth of gay role models, the cause was the AIDS crisis. An entire generation of gay men were wiped out- the first generation to come of age in a time of activism and openness. At 50, I am of the first generation that had knowledge of AIDS when coming out, but I watched friends, mentors, and a lover die of HIV-related illnesses, as well as leading lights of gay culture, including artists, dancers, performers, writers, activists, artisans, etc. (This is not to discount the many others who did not have public success who were also lost.) It has only been in the past ten years that we, as a community, have begun to confront the issue of aging because we finally have that luxury. Furthermore, the primary tenets of the gay rights struggle has been the right to live our lives as we see fit, to resist the demands of conformity, as our life experiences were not the norm.
WPalmer
Sigh. The day I start worrying about what a self-absorbed twenty-something twat thinks is the day I will stop doing more than going to bars. Chicken, who the fuck are you to be giving advice much less telling people who have made it to their forties where they should and should not be hanging out? Perhaps if you don’t like the clientele, YOU should avoid bars. I wouldn’t follow that idiot’s blog if it were the last beat on a tired Beyoncé remix.
yaletownman
@jar, I have plenty of life long gay friends. I have a feeling that I provided a mirror to you of how one dimensional your own life is and that hit a nerve. If I’m assuming my life is more well rounded than yours I’m probably right. Maybe my spouse and I have a hard time connecting non-sexually to other guys because we’re still hot. Maybe you have an easy time because your not. That’s what I’m picking up.
WPalmer
@Tackle: I think the point is the far reaching assumptions about why men in their forties go out in the first place. Newsflash, not all men over 35 are interested in men under 35. Many don’t care to get intimate with those that are younger. Some men that do like younger men only care about the aesthetics of someone younger and wouldn’t even care to have a conversation. The bottom line is that gay men are not a monolith and neither are gay men of certain age groups. How extremely presumptuous to even consider that people care to have the respect of someone so ridiculously judgmental.
Stache99
@WPalmer: Yes. There are way too many gay middle aged guys with a Brian Singer syndrome doing exactly what he described. The problem is that he whitewashed everyone.
It shows him to be a poor writer and lacks allot of maturity himself. Sweety. Not every middle aged guy is out every night dressed in A&F looking for young tail. Life doesn’t have to be so black and white either.
WPalmer
@Stache99: There are so many bigger fish to fry. “Too many guys”. You know, people can do what they want. WHO THE HELL IS ANYONE TO JUDGE? That is my point.
Honestly, I’m not quite sure what you are really trying to say. Your word choice, grammar, and syntax are really off.
jar
@yaletownman: Awfully prickly, lovie, no?
EdgarCarpenter
An old man wearing a sporty 1950’s hat and sports jacket, singing a fine jazzy Sinatra song, is likely to be accused by the profoundly ignorant Mr. Heinrich of dressing like a hipster and imitating Michael Buble.
The profoundly ignorant Mr. Heinrich seems to think that everything young men are doing today is new and freshly minted, and that older men are “imitating” him and his cohort.
No, honey, even your prejudices are copied from us (and even older men). Your clothes, your beards or shavedness, your hair, your tattoos, your bar habits, calling older men “trolls”, thinking you invented everything – you guys are total imitators except for the digital media you get on. And in digital cruising you do the same stuff, tell the same lies, try to impress in the same ways that older men did in face-to-face cruising over the last few hundred years.
Even old Walt Whitman would recognize Mr. Heinrich’s type, they’ve been around since long before Whitman’s time. There is some hope for Mr. Heinrich, but not until he grows up.
onthemark
I don’t know any settled-down gay male married couples. But I’m pretty sure they EXIST – out there, someplace. If only because I read about them all the time in gay publications! I’m told they don’t go to bars much, except maybe once a year at Pride time. Which makes sense to me, why would they hang out in bars?
I personally never understood the eternal yearning for gay “role models.” But this guy says he wants role models, then complains they are not in the bars he goes to. Try looking elsewhere?
Suppose the older guys he knows in bars all took his “advice” and grew up and stopped going to bars, then he wouldn’t know ANY older gay men at all! What would he say then – older gay men must all be dead? He really doesn’t seem too bright.
sethzhere
I don’t want to sound like a crabby old man but a writer named Jay Stewart ,from the Netherlands wrote this piece that sums it up about dealing sometimes with a younger generation. I know that my tolerance, as I get older, for BS is not too high and I think that is why there is a great degree of guys replying to the gayguys.com article.
http://www.gaylifeafter40.com/dont-want-crabby-old-man/
enlightenone
@Lvng1tor: Two snaps!I’m not a “bar” person, per se, but I do seek out fun places where I’m not the only over 40 (I happen to be single, a professional, activist, father) who earns his fun time and want to be in an environment where I know the men are gay/bi.That said, the article has some merit for discussions.
Chris
@Franco C.: Amen to that!
noah508
I was going in bars enjoying my youth at that age 18 and I am 57 now. I used to say I will never live to be that old due to the AIDS virus in my generation. And I lost a lot of my friends to it. I have been an advocate for Gay rights most my life. But guess what? I am still around and I still go to the bars once in a while just to see survivor’s of my generation. So I don’t care what the young ones think. I paved the way with hard knocks so their life experience’s could be easier. The lesson they need to learn is that someday they too will get old if they are lucky enough.
Chris
@Tackle: “But the idea of taking a pass, with the excuse of, I didn’t sing [sic] up for this, shows the highest form of selfishness, laziness and cowardice. … What it boils down to many times is, if sex is not involve, then I ddon’t want to be involved.”
I will repeat: I did not sign up to be a role model. And for anyone to infer that because someone doesn’t “sing” up for something, that shows selfishness, laziness and cowardice is itself presumptuous as anything. You have no idea what I have done in my life, the people who I have cared for and buried, the people who I continue to support financially and in many other ways, and all the other things that I continue to do at my ripe old past-40 age. And if I want to go out and have a drink or six, no one has any right to assume that — because he wishes to foist on me the moniker of role model — I am doing something wrong or that I should not do. I did not, and will never, sign up to be a role model for anyone.
Chris
@WPalmer: Well said.
enlightenone
@Tackle: Not bad advocacy at 2/5 in the wee or early morning hour! 100% agreement.
Jacob23
Q: How does one wind up as a 50-year old man trolling bars and clubs, lonely and pitied by the other patrons?
A: By learning as a 20-year old man that the way to live life is to troll bars and clubs (and Grindr and A4A) for bodies to use for orgasm. The pathetic 50-year old was once a hot 20-something. Sure the 20-year old thinks that this is just for right now. And if he has character and a sense of what is right and wrong, and if he has real expectations for his life, maybe it will be just for right now. But in many cases, there’s no exit plan. 1 year of bar and sex app trolling turns into 2 and then 4 and then 10 and then . . . well, after a while it is just the way things are. You can waste a lifetime rubbing up against the bodies of strangers, while your peers enjoy deepening, maturing relationships with emotional richness and social meaning.
So don’t do it. Except as a short-term romp, it is a dead-end. Big downside, no upside. Find people to love, people who will be there for you when you are 20, 40, or 100.
Stache99
@Jacob23:”How does one wind up as a 50-year old man trolling bars and clubs, lonely and pitied by the other patrons?”
The better question is why are you just assuming people are pitying him. You didn’t define that.
Maybe he just wants to go out every now and then and be left along by judgmental busy bodies like you.
Dxley
You’re all getting way TOO worked up about someone else’s opinion.
Evji108
Ah poor youth, eternally damned to being stupid and clueless. We’ve all been there; when you are 20 it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to imagine actually aging like our parents, like our teachers, like the old guy down the street. Despite the clear evidence and undeniable logic that every single one of the billions of people that have passed before us, have aged and died, it just seems absurd that it could actually happen to us. Somehow I will be exempt. The evidence that we see in the mirror, that of our youth and beauty, the smooth skin and supple flesh, is just too hard to deny, it appears so solid, permanent and immutable.
So just forgive Dalton Heinrich, he will get his comeuppance soon enough and the taste of it will be, for him, truly bitter.
Ttrotski
The truth is that most gay men over forty never thought this society would become as accepting of them as it has, that they would live to be forty;fifty;sixty or ever accepted the idea that we had to emulate heterosexuals by marrying, starting families, etc… Just because the culture has become accepting of those who are willing to assimilate by no means should those who have lived authentic GAY LIVES change the plans they have made for their lives. Perhaps they didn’t get a chance to go to the clubs in the seventies, eighties and nineties because they were busy fighting the powers that be for your right to even go to a gay bar, perhaps they didn’t get the chance to go to any of the circuit parties (that their generation created) because they were the only one of their entire social circle who never became full blown so they were tasked with nursing, shopping for,transporting, cleaning for, looking up estranged relatives for and burying their friends. You want a mentor? He’s right there in front of you, in the club having a GAY OLD TIME!
WPalmer
@Ttrotski: You do realize that gay rights mobilized from clubs and bars, I hop. Clubs and bars are where you went, closet or not. The world you inhabit now is a derivative and reductive version of something that sprang up organically.
This whole gay marriage thing was not something that people were concerned with in the 1970’s 1990’s. It was a very carefree and loving time. So, if someone who is in their 40’s and going out to bars, they are the one probably having an authentic experience as well.
Of course, I’m not speaking of life in the hinterlands. I only know New York, London, and Paris.
erick70115
Among the many reasons I’ve gone to gay bars, one of the important reasons was because I enjoyed just being in the company of other gay men. Some of us would want to go dancing, have a few drinks, enjoy being in a place where it was safe to be ourselves. And yes sometimes I’d meet someone who wanted a “private dance” but that was an option, not the driving force behind every adventure in the bars. As I’ve gotten older the welcome has been well…..less welcoming. As if I my older presence was going to ruin the vibe. As if just saying “hello” was an offence. This kind of reception has certainly ruined the vibe for me a few times. Whether someone is older or younger, it’s still down to is that person someone who you want to spend some time with or not. If not then fine. I don’t miss twenty somethings at all but I do miss the feeling of being in a safe haven in the company of other gay men who were cool to be around whether you slept with them or not.
erick70115
Finally I would point out to the author that mentors come in all shapes and sizes. I’ve been fortunate to have had a few mentors in my life, all much older than I was when we met and every one of them I met in a gay bar. One was a drag queen, one was a bookish professor and one was a very overweight man whom I met when he saved me from gay bashers. None of these men were remotely appealing to me sexually but that was a non issue. They taught me things about courage and compassion and what it means to be a stand up guy who happens to be gay.
And not once did it occur to me to ask their ages.
May they rest in peace.
sangsue
Age is the plague and youngsters are afraid it will spread to them. And before long, it will. As Judge Judy says, “Beauty fades, dumb is forever.”
Why is it verboten for gay guys to have younger lovers? It seems to be acceptable in straight culture, no one blinks an eye when a forty five year old straight male dates a 25 year old woman. Why can’t it be that way for gay males? Not that dating your own age range is bad at all of course. Why can’t it be the same in gay culture?
dayglowjim
@friscoguy: AMEN!! From a 53 year old.
dayglowjim
I find as I grow older that I’m not as interested in going clubbing as I used to be. Having said that, I feel that growing up in the 70’s and 80’s gave me the background I need to know that when I DO go out, I know what I’m doing. I’m alive and healthy after all. Also,if I can’t go out, how am I supposed to invite all those boys back to my place for the after-party?
dayglowjim
@Ttrotski: Thank You!
Alton
God save me from stupid, know-nothing twenty-something gays who believe the goal of the gay rights movement is all about gay men embracing straight culture.
Let people live their lives the way they want to, asshole. If you don’t want to see older gay men in clubs, don’t go to clubs. There has never been an age cut-off in gay bars, and there’s not going to be now, just because you’re too stupid to realize that not everybody needs to buy into your definition of what a middle-aged man should be.
And I say this as a middle-aged man who HATES clubs, and who has ALWAYS hated clubs, even when I was a stupid, know-nothing twenty-something.
Arkansas Razorback
The idea that bars are the territory of the young is absurd. Pubs and bars aren’t just places to meet potential sex partners. They are places to socialize and enjoy fellowship with others who are like you.
Ttrotski
@WPalmer: Yes, of course I realise that bars were a hugely important point of mobilisation in the struggle for gay rights, but they also served as a great equalizer, where the young and old, those financially blessed and those impoverished, drag queens and transsexuals, straight women and lesbians, twinks and leathermen and even some straight men could come together and dance, drink, love, exchange ideas and even sometimes fight. What made that time/place so special was the attitude of acceptance and of community struggle: it was beautiful. The most criticism we would receive was from those who had moved to the Gay Meccas, whining that we were so far behind the times and yet they had gone to those places only after the major battles had been fought and won and certainly hadn’t thought of returning to their nativity to help in the struggle. I was blessed with a mentor, who took me under his forty three year old wing when I was nineteen. He taught me everything from how to ride a motorcycle to how to break in a new pair of jeans, even how to argue with someone and make them want to take you home and fuck! Then AIDS took him and the majority of my friends: I saw the greatest minds of our time devoured by that scourge while the Establishment sat by doing nothing except blaming us for our own demise because we openly participated in sexual behavior that they equally participated in, but in secret and usually with the opposite sex. The beautiful community we had built was decimated and priorities changed all while the culture around us slowly but surely came to accept those of us who chose to resemble them. I cannot express fully how disappointing the gay community is today, sucked in by consumerism, Pop Culture and youth worship. Performance artists like Klaus Nomi have been replaced by Real Housewives of Wherever, one has to have the right car, phone, skin cream and if Queerty runs one more story about some twenty year old and his nifty underwear I think I may join a pray-away-the-gay group! The least we can do is accept one another despite any age differences.
Ttrotski
I would like to add…
“Never grow up, no mater how long you live.”
-Albert Einstein
WPalmer
@Ttrotski: I think if you will go back to my other posts you will see I couldn’t agree with you more. Going out at night is our birthright!
erick70115
Young gay guy: “Your generation needs to grow up.”
My response: No person should have to grow up the way that many of us had to grow up. It is very grown up to care for dying friends at the age of 22. It is very grown up to bury those same friends. It is very grown up to march and fight for help while the government does zip. It is exceedingly grown up to reach 40 as the only survivor of a group of friends. That is how many of my generation spent our twenties and thirties so I’ve had more than enough growing up for several lifetimes and now if I want to channel Peter Pan from time to time well………….I’ve been disapproved of before by forces that could kill me so the disapproval of young gay guys who presume that I must be in a bar to drool in their beer is rather meaningless.
I’m headed out next weekend to a bar where Thelma Houston welcomes you singing “Don’t Leave Me This Way” and the light show is friggin amazing. Some of you know where it is already – just set your course to the “Second star to the right and straight on ’til morning. ” Should be fun.
Pax
Bars? This blogger is either a much older person himself or someone who doesn’t know how we meet up and socialize today. I’m actually surprised he knows how to use FaceBook.
Gay bars are a part of a past that I wish I had known, but unfortunately disappeared long ago. Maybe gays who knew how to party once upon a time could be the ones to help bring back fun clubbing and help rid us of our inability socialize in real time. Guys know how to use APPs, but are overwhelmingly socially inept and usually incapable of non-virtual interaction and real dialogue. By excluding any age group he demonstrates that he is a total failure when it comes to fraternization.
(If anyone is FB “friends” with him, please send him a link on the correct use of relative pronouns. Ouch!)
Nikkidane
Fortunately, the days of bars being the only place to meet other gay people are long gone. They still have their place as a social hang out but now days you can meet LGBT people anywhere and everywhere. The Internet has totally changed dating; although it tends to be a meat market.
I think work is probably the best place to meet people and make friends. Parties at people’s homes is another great place to meet new friends. Meet-Up groups are also a good place to meet others. I rarely ever met anyone new in a bar.
Ttrotski
@WPalmer: Yes, I understand you and I are on the same page, I was being rhetorical and in my head I could hear the tone of shock in both our voices. @Bad Seed, when writing the voice in my head kept tripping over “whom” so I opted for the popular vernacular: I do apologise.
sjohn6
I have two views on this: First- to my fellow 40 something’s- why do you WANT to hang out with 20 something’s? They are annoying. They are self-centered. They are shallow. You can only learn two things from them: how to use the latest technology and how to be a judgmental prick. And if you can find one today whose brain hasn’t been re-programmed due to social media and actually have a conversation- you are extremely lucky. Nothing looks older than someone trying to be young. I told myself in my late 20’s that I did not want to be the lonely old queen at the piano bar singing Judy Garland songs and going home alone. As a result I am now married and have an adopted son. But second- After years of fighting for our rights, watching our friends die of AIDS, being arrested for who you are, losing your job for who you are (and I’m talking to guys 50 plus here ) did it occur to you lucky little twinks that maybe the older guys just wanna celebrate how far we’ve come and just have some fun?? To all of you trailblazers- if you wanna go to the club and dance in your tightest A+F T-shirt then do it. Rock it! There will be plenty of room on the dance floor. All of the 20 something’s will be playing on their phones.
vive
@Nikkidane, I agree that bars are rarely a place to meet people these days – meeting new people is not why people go to bars nowadays unless they are outgoing enough to swim against the current of The Way You Are Supposed To Act (namely, pretend-ignore everyone you don’t already know – at least that’s the New England way).
I wish more of the previous generation were still around to teach us how to behave like human beings in public places.
But how do you meet all these people through work and friends? I have seriously not met even one other gay guy in my daily life in five years. I think that must be the big difference between large cities and the rest. (I live in a college town that is otherwise in an economic recession, and it’s the WORST POSSIBLE place for meeting gay people.)
Doughosier
When I turned 40 I asked a straight friend of mine, who’s my age, if he minded turning 40 and he said “Why should I? I live the life of a 40 year old”. He was married with kids. I was still living the life of a 25 year old.
The problem is we don’t have that option, or didn’t until very recently and still have to make a lot of money to get kids.
This is a very superficial argument but not a new one. When I was in my early 20’s, I remember two guys in their late 20’s coming up to me and saying they were glad to see a young guy, they DID NOT like the older guys. I wonder what they are doing now that they’re older?
It’s funny, he older guys who are admitting to still going to bars on this page all mention they look years younger. If you look “your age’ the young gay guys don’t want to see you. Maybe a reminder of what’s to come?
Stache99
@Doughosier: When I was in SF one time me and my 40 yo roommate wanted to go to a private party after a day of being out for the Pride parade. This was 1998 and I was in my twenties and waved in no problem. My roommate was stopped and told to go away though. They wanted their party to nothing but young guys. So much for Pride.
Age discrimination is just something that each newer generation does to the former. I guess they’ve never heard of Karma though. Lol
winemaker
This article was interesting to think about and the varied comments were thought provoking, to say the least. Re gay bars: I’ve lived in San Francisco for thirty years but grew up in Los Angeles. When I came out, in June 1977.I started going to various bars to meet guys. The gay scene in los Angeles was centered in Hollywood. There wasn’t a West Hollywood then, it was an unincorporated area of los Angeles. I must say that at the time of my coming out, I was very much overweight. I remember trying to strike up conversations with guys and their treatment of me was less than polite, the men were rude! Of course it hurt, but I then decided to change my life drastically! I started going to a gym and began dieting. As the weight came off, some men actually acknowledged me and spoke to me. This was encouraging. In fact, some of the men that went to my gym I’d seen out in certain bars in west Hollywood. Some of them would say “hi” to me at the gym but if they saw me in the bar they’d ignore me. A friend of mine at the time jokingly said they probably didn’t want to ruin the ‘score factor’. I dismissed these men as obnoxious and shallow. As I’ve gotten older, I find I don’t want to be around and deal with the nonsense and mind games the men play. When I moved north to San Francisco in 1981, the men here were a lot friendlier than they are today. I’ve found there to be two types of gay men in San Francisco: aloof and stuck up, or rude, arrogant and nasty. After all these years, I’m ready to leave this unfriendly city. Too bad, it used to be so much nicer and friendlier!
BadSeed
@Winemaker: Although I’m probably older than you, we share a common past. I grew up in an LA suburb and began to discover LA’s gay scene at the age of 13, only 3 years after Harry Hay had founded Matachine. After college and military service, I settled in SF where I found the politics more congenial than in LA, still dominated by the Chandlers’ LA Times. That was 1967, only coincidentally “the summer of love.” In 2017 I imagine we will celebrate the 50th Anniversary of that season, but I fear the only love left may be gliding in cyberspace. Sometimes I think St. Paul was right: ‘Tis better to marry than burn, or, perhaps more realistically, yearn.
@Ttrotski: I assume your response is in answer for my request for an example of brave gay journalism. Sorry I missed Gay Games coverage on the Daily Show. As an older gay man, I live with many of the unfortunate circumstances you describe and cannot afford Cable TV where I assume the Daily show can be seen, but I’ll take your word for the coveage’s having been brave.
vive
@Doughosier, I can’t think of anything worse than being married with kids. To each his own, but to me that would be hell on earth.
As for claiming to look years younger, no, I don’t like that either. I look exactly 48 and I tell people that, just like Brad Pitt looks exactly 50, Eric Bana looks exactly 46, and Hugh Jackman and Jack Mackenroth look exactly 45. It’s partly because so many in-shape gay men over 40 lie about their age, instead of being honest role models of in shape sexy older men, that younger gay men are so petrified of growing older.
Stache99
@vive: I have to lie about my age. People already have a add up index of at least 5 – 10 years.
Seriously, I don’t really mind if you lie about your age. As long as what comes over looks like the pics that I fell in love with 😉
vive
@Stache99, “I have to lie about my age.”
Online yes, you have to, for the exact reason you state. In person, though, I usually make a point of stating my true age if the subject comes up. I have to add, though, that I was taught from a young age that asking someone their age wasn’t done. I sometimes wonder from under what rock all these rude people crawled out.
Stache99
@vive: Recently I had this twenty 23 practically in love with me. Texting me daily and just being annoying. Not really my type. Too young and too effeminate. Ok I did have sex with him and he was a great bottom and he loved it 😉
Afterwords, were talking and he’s all chatty talking about astrology and asks me my sign. I didn’t know but just told him my birthday. I’m 48 too. 10 minutes of very awkward silence. You’d think I just told him I was infected with Ebola. Apparently, he must have thought I was younger. Never heard from him again.
So yes. Honesty can work. Lol
vive
@Stache99, LOL, yeah, it is useful for getting rid of the undesirables, who are pretty much the same set of people on whom that would work.
Doughosier
What he’s saying is, only attractive people should go to the clubs. It’s not the older man’s experience or income he’s objecting to. He just thinks pretty people should be allowed.
seaguy
Who cares what that stuck up prissy little c*nt who calls himself a blogger thinks. I hope he ages badly and turns into an old lonely troll. Karma is a bitch honey!
tdx3fan
@friscoguy: It bothers me if someone will pay $50 for a t-shirt but not give the $10 to a charity, so I normally don’t like guys that wear A&F.
tdx3fan
@mz.sam: If he wants to ever be employed he might want to start with learning the difference between most funny and funniest. The stupidity there makes my mind hurt (and I’m by no means a grammar nazi).
tdx3fan
@redcarpet30: I don’t find him remotely attractive. I’m 35, and I will take someone 40-50+ any day over this bleach bottle twink boy.
Jacob23
@Stache99:
“Seriously, I don’t really mind if you lie about your age. As long as what comes over looks like the pics that I fell in love with.”
So just to tally up your “love” life:
1. You have sex with people you don’t know and who don’t know you.
2. You lie to them and they lie to you.
3. Your criterion for selection for your sex partners is how they look in digital pictures uploaded to a commercial app.
4. You refer to your sex partners not as a “who” but as a “what,” i.e., as inanimate objects.
5. When, after having anal sex with a complete stranger, you reveal a true fact about yourself, you never hear from the sex partner again.
6. This is how you have been living for at least 16 years if not longer, and it is how you live at age 48.
I wonder if this is how you envisioned your future when you first came out. I wonder if it was your aspiration from the beginning to use the bodies of strangers to achieve orgasm and to do that for decades to come. Was it that, or did you perhaps at one time have a human heart, which needs love and kindness and connection and understanding? Porn is great to watch. But it is no way to live.
Well, in any event, your bizarre and miserable way of life, once dominant among gay men – with predictably catastrophic results – is rapidly dying out. In its wake, something vastly different and vastly better.
Stache99
@Jacob23: Sweety I’m glad you took so much time to put all that babble together. However, I do quite nicely and the people around me don’t seem to have any issues with me either. Now put the claws back in a bit and worry about your own life.
BadSeed
Assuming that Stache99’s life is as miserable as Jacob23 imagines (a mighty big assumption), I have to wonder what Jacob has in mind when he writes “something vastly different and vastly better” is on the horizon. True love or gay marriage maybe? He doesn’t tell us. Is it copyrighted or under patent? What’s up? The second coming?
vive
@Jacob23, at least people want to have sex with Stache99, which is surely more than what can be said for you based on your little attitude, my dear.
Stache99
Ha. Yeah, I sense something very personal in his screed. The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.
Generally people like to be around others that are fun and not full of mental baggage. If being judgmental and bitter is his version of a better world then count me out!
wpewen
First, I’ve posted here before-I’m a 56 yr old white gay guy, masculine.don’t look down on fems.
Don’t really go out. Bars can be fun, they can be a prison also. Never really had gay role models, All straight men. I like a lot of straight men, not all. As I grew older prefered socializing with straights. They accept me as I am, don’t stand around and bitch talk and keep their mouths shut about gays generally. We do share some discussions-history, nature, sometimes politics, world events, plants, some sports….the list goes on
I have not much to say to gay guys-sometimes,but not a lot. I have a gay male friend right now I talk about construction to cause that’s his life My Dad was a contractor and I worked as a nurseryman (just had a hip replacement). As to aging in the gay bar scene I’d say guys don’t even let it bother you. I personally walked away from the scene 20 years ago. I couldn’t have male friendships based on it. I’m a man who happens to like to sleep with other men,
That’s about it.
Elloreigh
@Tackle: “To those of you proclaiming that you did not sign up for, do not want to be, and have zero interest in being a role model for the younger generation of gays, ( news flash) by default you are.”
That’s a mighty big assumption to make. I don’t think that the mere act of surviving to my 50s necessarily makes me a role model.
@Tackle“I didn’t sign up for it either. But as a member of an oppressed minority, , despite all the advances in equality, those of us who are in our 40s, 50s 60s and beyond, who are well adjuste, and happily functioning in society, should have some wisdom, experience and knowledge to pass on, If asked.”
No one is asking. Dead serious.
@Tackle“Yes you do have a choice. No one can make you. But the idea of taking a pass, with the excuse of, I didn’t sing up for this, shows the highest form of selfishness, laziness and cowardice.
What it boils down to many times is, if sex is not involve, then I ddon’t want to be involved. ..”
Judgmental, much? I’ve earned the right to my ‘selfishness’ and ‘laziness’, regardless of what you think. As for ‘cowardice’, get back to me when you’ve stared down someone wielding a pitchfork (no exaggeration). I’ve had friends beaten and left for dead, suffering permanent brain damage; acquaintances murdered in cold blood in broad daylight; lost my best friend to suicide; and experienced too much violence myself to care about the opinion of any self-righteous poser on the Internet.
And what does that statement even mean, calling us cowards? It’s not that I’m afraid of talking to younger people. I just don’t see any point in it, that’s all.
The fact that I am still here doesn’t make me especially wise, nor do I think it means I’m particularly brave. It merely means that I survived. Others weren’t so lucky. It certainly doesn’t make me a role model.
lwoody75
As someone who will be 40 in a few months I can see his point. I think his opinion is not based on the experience of those of us who had a very different gay experience. The few times I do go out because I like to dance I usually have a lame time because all the twenty somethings are too busy on their phones and being “cool” to know how to have a good time. Between that and not being able to hold their alcohol its a sad sight. I think more gay men who feel better about aging if we did more with our lives. Without the milestones of our straight counterparts it can be challenging to find something to ground you.
But a word of advice to the blogger. If you want a mentor you should probably not insult them and come across as an agesit prick with no concept of community or respect for one’s elders. I’m such saying.
Ttrotski
I hope that the Queerty staff are paying attention to this thread, because even though they ran this story, they , in their editorial choices are equally as guilty of ageism as the author of the article that we are all commenting on.Give us content about a gay artist in his sixties, a model in his eighties, a fifty year old in his underwear. You do not try at all and you don’t hold your advertisers nor contributors to a standard that would show you truly care about ageism. Now please, Queerty, comment.
vive
@Trotski, to be fair, just on the first couple of pages they have stories on Queen Latifah, Michael Lucas, Richard Gere, Andy Cohen, Freddie Mercury and the other Queen members, George Takei, Dan Savage, Cher, etc.
All of them middle aged or even what used to be called elderly.
Ttrotski
Where’s the over forty beefcake?
vive
@Trotski, see for example the photos of Terry Miller posted several times recently. They have posted Jack Mackenroth beefcake pictures. I sort of remember their posting pictures of Hugh Jackman. A good number of the guys posted in the several hairy beefcake articles must be over 40.
vive
Then there is their obsession with John Hamm, matt Bomer is almost 40 and has had several beefcake articles here recently. Etc. etc.
Calin
@RIGay: Obviously they don’t give a FCUK what others think, more power to them. I’m sure they were having a great time. It’s a free country, who are you to say was appropriate or inappropriate. People like you are sad, I mean who goes around places acting like the Fashion Police.
friscoguy
LOL I just Googled his image, not at all cute and that hairdo??? LOL.
michael_carr
Winning is the new gay, and the new black, and the new Five 0… None of ya all really get it until…
Ttrotski
Caswell is a rather unremarkable musician, but every time he opens his box of Fruit Loops (oooh, I just dated my self!) Queerty runs an article. For some reason they don’t cover the millions of other artists in musical genres that perhaps don’t appeal to a more youthful aesthetic. They cover Broadway, but only when the chorus boys strip down for charity. Their agenda seems to be to get into parties and to hang out with underwear models and in the process, if they must, they will occasionally run articl… fuck it! I know I am generalising and exaggerating but the gay media is so vapid and so rarely shows any kind of bravery it makes me sick.
vive
@Ttrotski, you are right about gay media in general, but I don’t think this particular one ever claimed to be more than a tabloid.
BadSeed
@vive: I always thought it was sensationalism that characterized tabloids, not necessarily vapidity, although I guess there can be some overlap. In any case, I’d appreciate an example of the kind of bravery Ttrotski may have in mind.
TheMarc
Well, let me add my voice to the chorus. The article is fairly myopic. If this kid is looking for older gay role models who don’t go to bars consistently and not finding them; it’s because he’s not really looking. I know many gay men (young and old) who don’t go to bars at all. These days there are multiple venues where gays congregate. And if you want to find older, more settled gays to “look up to” then these would be the places to go.
That being said. There is nothing wrong with being an older gay man who frequents gay bars. I’m not as dismissive of gay history as some. Gay bars have and still do hold great significance in our history, culture and social development. Stonewall wasn’t a potluck dinner at the rec center. It is not only safer, but more desirable to be in a venue that is gay-oriented if your objective is to meet and socialize with other gays. And of course it’s easier and holds a lot less pressure than some other options. There are dynamics that aren’t even discussed in the article that are legitimate and logical reasons as to why this “phenomenon” of older gay men going to bars exists. And again on this general myopic tone of this article, there are plenty of straight bars that are frequented by a PRIMARILY older crowd.
If this article had been about older gay men who dress like twinks, I could get behind that. Mainly, because older gay men who do so are doing a disservice to themselves as it is rarely an attractive look. But it appears to be a wholesale attack on older gay men. If he wanted to find role models, he could. They’re just not in any place he would care to look.
BadSeed
@TheMark: Please name some other than than bathhouses, T-rooms, LGBT smoking cessation classes, the occasional rap group, LGBT political clubs or music groups, etc. Certainly not LGBT community centers like that in San Francisco where the first posted rule is “No sex on the premises.” No kidding! Who would have thought? Well, maybe SF’s uptight LGBT political establishment that likes to pretend 1) every gay man wants to get married, 2) sex clubs don’t deserve business licenses as such, and 3) gay bathhouses don’t operate anywhere since there are none in SF.
Ttrotski
@BadSeed: The pieces Scott Thompson did for The Daily Show Olympics Coverage were both funny and brave in a way that truly raised the bar where it comes to Gay Media. Gay youth experience a higher rate of homelessness than their straight counterparts,older gay men whom were rejected by their families find themselves with no one to provide the help with day to day living that our society more often than not assumes everyone has: both very important issues for the gay community, yet no real coverage of these or many other issues, practical, life and death issues. We are a great people, capable of great things but those things usually happen when get over our fabulousness issues and our superiority complex. The irony of that statement summing up a critique does give me pause, but to chuckle, not to reconsider my stance.
northsidevic
you are you to put a age limit on partying. You can go where ever you want. Age is nothing but a number, its how you feel. I’m 50 and i still go out to bars and dance good. You probably wouldn’t know me if you ran into me. I dont try to dress like a twenty year old. I dress like i want to. I wear a nice pair of slacks and a shirt and can dance my ass off. I found out that a lot of young guys are looking for the older gentlemen to help them steer through gay life. I’m not looking for no young buck, but I’m willing to give a bit of advice. If it hadn’t been for us old folks, you would not have the freedom you have today. Respect your elders, they may teach you a thing or two…
northsidevic
@ibernard: @northsidevic I totally agree with you
Ttrotski
@BadSeed: If you go to the Daily Show website the episodes are available for free.
Rusty Alcorta
I’m 63.At 21 I was busy going to school, working, protesting, getting arrested and beat up by cops. Going to the bars now and then was to meet with other gays young and old, lesbians, drag queens and transsexuals trying to plan our next move. I got into a long term relationship with a guy that had all the same views but didn’t meet at a bar. He and his friends “stole” my car (it was an awesome red ’65 GTO hardtop) when I got arrested protesting in drag and dropped it off at my apartment so the cops wouldn’t take it. He was trying to bail me out but someone beat him to the punch. That’s what “old” men with money did for us, bail us out of jail and pay our fines. They were our back up so in time we did the same for others. We helped young gays who got kicked out of their their homes and living on the street; getting jobs and going back to school and showed them they could go to college. Some lived with me for a time. Several boys who are now in their forties with college degrees and their own homes and great jobs are still in touch with me and call me “Mama”. Now I’m the old man/woman. The last boy I raised is now twenty. He’s straight and lives with his girlfriend and their two kids with me. I only go to the bars on my birthday in Houston, Mexico City, Paris or Rome just to think about the old days when we had no peace and no acceptance. My last best friend from that era died in 1991 but if they were still alive who would say we wouldn’t be wearing A&F tees and glow bracelets and partying at some bar now and then (we just weren’t bar flies) after all I feel we earned it and earned the right for idiots like Heinrich to have their say.
thursdayman2014
When I was under 21 I used to tease and taunt the elders who bought me drinks etc. Then the odometer ticked over and it was me getting stood up, etc. In the end, it’s all good for the soul…the all too brief rosy glow followed by a nice long slow burn.
Shurrup and feel the heat.
toytiger50
The great majority of gay men DO stop going out to bars/discos around the time they turn 40, as I did; we were used to getting plenty of attention in our 20s and 30s and suddenly, we find that we get none – it ALL stops, all of a sudden, esp. if the type you were was a cute twink – pale skinned, youthful face, small frame, not a lot of body hair. If you are a “daddy” type, i.e. swarthy, hairy, can wear facial hair well, still have more muscle than fat, then your forties and fifties will be great years – you’ll have hot young guys like the one I used to be looking at you and hoping you’ll come over and talk to them.
toytiger50
In every large city there’s a bar or disco that specifically caters to an older crowd, say guys in their 40s and 50s, and there’s always a large group of gay men in their 40s and 50s, still going out to bars, who wouldn’t set foot in it to save their lives. They’re hanging out at the young mens’ clubs – and these are the guys this blogger is writing about. If you’re a gay 40-50, go to the older man’s club; even if you only like younger men, the one’s who want you will go there to find you. In their clubs, your simply going to be treated like an old nuisance.
hagej02
I’m surprised on the thin skinned reaction to the blogger. To be honest, I think he hit the nail on the head. Younger gay men do need a mentor, not a predator. Older men (like myself) do need to get a life outside the bars. Discos are for the young, and there comes a time in life where you move on. It is Peter Pan syndrome…absolutely. Has anyone stopped to consider other interests in life beyond booze, sex, popularity contests, drag queens, and leather dens? Wow…what’s the demographic here?
lcandela123
Would you please just stop over-thinking this? If older guys have a good time hanging out in bars, so fucking what. Who are You to tell them to get a life? And discos are NOT for the young, they are for anyone that likes discos. Your attitude is depressing, dude.
hagej02
Again, the reaction surprises me. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s the target that this website panders to. It must be the same reality and worldview as in places like Palm Springs and Fire Island. Gross
BadSeed
Palm Springs and Fire Island are (wet)dream scenes. Fire Island was never better than 45 years ago when I was 30. At age 60 in 2000 it was less so. As an aging gay man, I wouldn’t expect to encounter Christian charity in such locales. Still, I do want to be tolerated.
Rishji
Far be it from me to use logic but you don’t know the number of folks like me that aren’t in clubs because we aren’t in them to be seen. How you can extrapolate that all gay men have a Peter Pan syndrome from the sample of men you see in your clubs in your neighborhoods is beyond me, unless you work for Fox News. There is a segment of older guys that like younger guys and a segment (much smaller, perhaps) of younger guys that like older guys. Were a club in a major city open to bring the two together, it would probably make money.
As for the older folks complaining about his post, neither love nor attraction is logical and can’t be trained. All of our experiences in our formative years can mold us a bit. Nor should love and attraction be interchanged as if they are the same. We may love in different places than we lust and toward different people. If love were logical, we’d have love equations instead of love poems. If attraction were logical, the filtering systems for Grindr would be automatically successful.
bvinla
This is complete bull for a number of reasons.
1) There are millions of 40+ STRAIGHT people who go to bars. Some to singles bars to meet new lovers, and others hit a sports bars, or gastro pubs to hang with friends. In some pubs its not unusual for the older folks to outnumber the young. Id gamble to say that if fewer straight people had kids to care for there would be even more of them out at bars.
2) Why does being mature or adult mean you aren’t supposed to toss back a couple, flirt with people, or dance all night with or without your shirt. At 40 are you supposed to magically become interested in Mahjong or watching the history channel? Being adult is about being YOU and enjoying what interests you.
3) Why do some young gay men think the world is all about them and are so unwilling to share it with others who are different. Doesn’t seem like the latest gay generation got the memo about what diversity is truly about.
4) Personally I think its a tragedy that current attitudes create a climate where older gay men feel like they are supposed to stay home isolated and alone.
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