SOUNDBITES — “The concept of marriage has too many assumptions attached. Married couples settle down together. They are responsible for each other. They owe each other. They are dependent on each other. They are meant to consult each other on long-term and day-to-day decisions. They are meant to be monogamous. They are meant to be willing to give up things they really want for the sake of the marriage. If they get divorced, which is usually horribly messy, they are considered to have failed, even when divorce is the most growth-enhancing option. There is a tendency to use being married as a safety net enabling one to get away with behavior that lacks integrity: We’re married, so s/he’s not going to leave me. Of course, a committed relationship, whether considered to be a marriage or not, doesn’t have to be that way. But I’m not on the front lines of the campaign for gay marriage. I’m going for a model that is conceptually broader. I want love and intimacy, and I want freedom, which means not being tied down. My personal experience illustrates that’s quite possible. I’m not saying it’s easy. It requires a unique level of honesty and responsibility, and it’s made far more difficult by social disapproval. Those of us who are choosing these kinds of options are on the cutting edge of something absolutely new in Western culture. That certainly doesn’t mean it can’t work. It already is working on a small scale.” —Orgasm author and out lesbian Mikaya Heart on the appeal of marriage for gays [Philadelphia Inquirer]
Mikaya Heart
‘I’m not on the front lines of the campaign for gay marriage. I’m going for a model that is conceptually broader’
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JP
In other words, she wants to preserve her right to be a narcissistic bitch.
“Those of us who are … on the cutting edge of something absolutely new in Western culture.”
She’ll NEVER achieve an orgasm as big as her EGO.
GJR
How about a simpler definition:
Every adult should be able to choose what he or she does with another adult in terms of their marital status. If they want to not be married, that’s fine. If they want to, that’s fine too.
Fitz
I think she makes the mistake of thinking that the purpose of marriage is only to please the two people who are married. That’s a big part of it, but society also benefits and has a stake in making stable long term relationships more able to succeed.
socal lesbian
I agree with the first commenter. She’s full of it. Actually, she’s full of herself.
The Gay Numbers
I would also add she, like most self absorbed people, does not understand concepts of equality under the law in America. The core issue is whether a category is discriminated against LEGALLY as a class. Right now, if she changed her mind, she could not get married if she wanted to. That’s what makes her beliefs totally delusional. It’s not her choice. It is someone else’s choice.
Qjersey
I agree too,
Your broader definition will not get you access to your partner while in the hospital, inheritance without taxes, and so on and so on.
GJR
@Fitz:
Plus, don’t forget the grand paradox. We awful homosexuals are allegedly so promiscuous, out every single day having dangerous unprotected sex according to the myth. But then, um, when we want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship, they don’t want this either.
And of course, there is a double standard here too. How many straight men are out “pussy hunting” with their wingman friends every weekend and would sleep with 50 women, some do. How many straight men decide not to use condoms and spread SID’s? But that is all excused AND they get marriage rights too.
Fitz
@GJR: Well said. It’s that whole “Projective identification” thing. You know, I am an old man and I have developed a way of life that feels good and responsible.. but I wonder about how the young GLT’s interpret all this double-bound garbage.
The Gay Numbers
@Fitz: @Fitz: Projective identity is definitely what’s at play with a lot of opressed minorities. They start to act the part that they are given by society, and come to convince themselves that its “their choice” rather than the oppression of society. I would have no problem with someone saying I don’t want to get married if it were their choice, but as I said before in the context of the larger society her comments with regard to freedom of choice is delusional. This projective identity is so powerful that is interesting to watch as gay people try to enforce their view about what gay should mean on all other gays. I am all about it being one’s choice, and not something enforced by society whehter through obvious means such as laws or non-obvious such as internalized issues we develp that tells us our “freedom” requires to act in certain ways rather than others because gays are supposed to “not do what heterosexuals do”
Alex
I’m going to be totally honest: I don’t want to die alone.
If that means giving up freedom, binding myself to others with undefined and possibly unlimited responsibility, that’s a trade I’m willing to make. And if I find someone that I love unconditionally and they love me back, all the better.
schlukitz
Thanks for the brain fart, Mikaya.
prissysissy
In other words, she just wants to be a slut without being called one.
Timothy
“Married couples settle down together. They are responsible for each other. They owe each other. They are dependent on each other. They are meant to consult each other on long-term and day-to-day decisions. They are meant to be monogamous. They are meant to be willing to give up things they really want for the sake of the marriage… I want love and intimacy, and I want freedom, which means not being tied down.”
Some day she’ll discover that “not being tied down” also means that no one is tied down to you. And when things turn bad, when the burden is bigger than a friend can carry, when she needs someone who is willing to give up something, she’s going to find that all of her “freedom” came at a very high price.
TANK
Yawn. Can’t stand this self indulgent prattle. What a surprise…it’s a lesbian.
Dennis
Bunch of closed-minded judgement on this thread…I don’t have a strong desire to be married either, though I 100% support other GLBTs who do, and understand the importance of securing that right…She doesn’t use the term, but it sounds similar to seeking polyamory, or some form of open relationship (which, ahem, gay men OFTEN practice!)
We claim to want to be free from others’ judgements about our lifestyle, but attack her for seeking her own “best solution” for her dersires? Hypocrisy much?
TANK
I betcha she’s the light of her little coterie of queer theory gender studies dykes. She’s been told that she’s much smarter than she actually is for a loooong time….perhaps, even, her whole life.
There’s a safety net in being in a long term relationship that gives people license to take their partners for granted, too. This is just hot air.
Dennis
@TANK:
Tank, dyke-hater much? Relax pal, she’s probably not into you anyway, so her choices don’t effect you…so why the judgement and derision? Remember, lesbians are on OUR side, you know, civil rights, freedom to live our lives, etc.
Gay male culture has just as much (if not more) to ridicule as “gender studies dyke” culture.
TANK
@Dennis:
Dyke hate? No, overly dramatic false intellectual dyke dislike, very much. As to desiring her sexually, I’m gay. Do you have a thought that rises above your belt, you quasi literate slob?
And no, not all lesbians (or gay men) are on our side… And the queer theory bobbleheads are some of the most hostile toward lgbt enfranchisement.
So revel in your egocentrism, please. Invalid “arguments” elevating your so-called non-traditional (and it’s not nontraditional…LOL!) relationships and justifying lust as progressive.
Dennis
@TANK:
Coming from you, “quasi literate” is a compliment, so I’m honored…thank you.
If my lust is bad, then I’ll be a “good gay” and stick to missionary position with my husband in the dark, just as God intended. I wouldn’t want to break any cultural taboos, or expand sexual freedom in any way.
pilgrim
Tank
They’re you are!
TANK
@Dennis:
Oh, you insufferable moron. No one is seriously passing judgment on your relationship status. Live and let live. That, however, is not the tone of this poorly articulated drama dyke’s “opinion”. It is, to the contrary, a judgmental scolding and negative toward same sex marriage by assuming that it is what the religious right says it is; cashing in, I’m sure, on some degenerate argument that it’s all sexism and rooted in oppression. It’s tired and played and easily dimissed as youthful idealism more at the service of ego than truth (and I’m sure you’re up there with the plurality of “your truths vs. my truths,” too). That is the implicit meme this untutored simpleton is relying to cling to a “radical” identity…edgey, innit? Do you spend more time acting the oppressed than enjoying that which you’ve been oppressed for?
Lust isn’t bad, though…get off the cross.
TANK
@pilgrim:
‘there’…so sad.
Tom
@Dennis I agree with what you’ve penned, and applaud your courage in so doing.
The Gay Numbers
@Tom: There is no courage in saying the same orthodoxy that the gay community queer theorists has been spouting for 40 years now. There is some courage go against a tide. Not ride it. The balance position is that we each should get to do what we want. the closed mind is the bullshit where you are being “open” by telling people who do not agree that they must live your standard. There was a thread recently on another site about polyamourous relationships. I will say what I said ther-e the thing is that many people are not happy being “polymourous” they want to enforce that as the social norm on others. If I am not interested in it, “then there is somehting wrong me.” It’s not possible that my sense of freedom is different from theres. I must be “buying” into something. Never mind the heavy handedness is every bit a form of social control, and most of it delusional as what comes from heteronormative judgment. If you were truly “liberated” you would get that when you options are limited by others, then it’s not your choice. If you don’t get that, then yes you are being judge. but not for your choices. For your lack of thinking of anyone beyond yourself.
galefan2004
I’m not a supporter of marriage for MYSELF. I know that I will never actually get married. I’m 30 years old, my time to settle down and be all fanciful and find a life mate is pretty much past me. I’m cool with that. However, I believe that gays and lesbians should have the RIGHT to find a life long partner and get married to that partner. The right to wed who we love is a basic human right. Only dumb assed Christian conservatives and homophobic closet cases disagree with that at this point. So which of those two categories does this chick fall into.
galefan2004
@Timothy:
What the hell, you took the argument the other way I hate. You went from, we should be allowed marriage to we should all be married. The fact is that many single people live very full and productive lives, hell, many times they out live their married counterparts. As far as not having anyone there at the end, you are bloody dieing, who really cares if you have someone there to watch that. I personally don’t want to watch my partner die, and I sure the hell don’t want to wish it on anyone else. As far as not having anyone there for you, you have the state there for you in this country. You end up in some state ran nursing home and pine away the days till its all over.
BobP
I’m not interested in what this person has to say. I’m in a long, long relationship and wouldn’t trade it for anything. My partner and I still love each other and we have a lifetime history of experiences that you cannot understand unless you’ve experienced it.
Having a relationship that works involves all the things she says and more. The reward, however, is well worth it.
She sounds extremely selfish. I doubt that anyone would want to have a relationship her, anyway.
galefan2004
@BobP:
I agree with the selfish part. Many of us are way to selfish to be in an actual relationship. However, some of us actually admit to it. My issue isn’t that she doesn’t want to be married. My issue is that she doesn’t think its important to fight for gay marriage equality for those that do want to get married. I’m happy for you and your partner.
schlukitz
@BobP:
@galefan2004:
I always find it interesting that the gays that decry marriage the most, are the one’s that no one wants to marry, even with a gun pointed at their head.
To listen to some of them, one would get the impression, however, that there was a line of people wanting their hand in marriage.
Yeah, right. Only in their dreams. LOL