It is possible for a guy to be “mostly straight”?
That’s the question Ritch C. Savin-Williams, a professor emeritus of development psychology at Cornell University, aims to answer in his new book, Mostly Straight: Sexual Fluidity Among Gay Men.
“To the uninitiated, mostly straight may seem paradoxical. How can a man be mostly heterosexual?” Savin-Williams writes in an article published by TIME. “Yet the evidence suggests that more young men identify or describe themselves as ‘mostly straight’ than identify as either bisexual or gay combined.”
Related: “Bro-Jobs” Author Talks Straight Man-On-Man Sex And “Repressed Homosexual Desire”
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Savin-Williams points to a government poll conducted in 2011-2013 found that 6% of men ages 18-24 years old described themselves as being attracted to “mostly the opposite sex.” When asked to choose a label–straight, bisexual or gay–around three-quarters of the men said they were straight because they believed the term “bisexual” seemed “too gay” to accurately describe themselves.
For his book, Savin-Williams spoke to a motley crew of these “mostly straight”-identifying young men to try and better understand their way of thinking.
Savin-Williams explains:
The mostly straight man belongs to a growing trend of young men who are secure in their heterosexuality yet remain aware of their potential to experience far more. … Perhaps he’s made out or he wants to make out with a guy friend. He’s participated in all-male group masturbation or is willing to receive oral sex from an attractive guy he’s just met. But it’s unlikely that he has had penetrative sex with a guy, though he might be willing to if the right guy or circumstance appeared. He might have had an intense guy crush. But to fall passionately in love with a guy is too much, though he might have quite strong feelings and cuddle with a best friend.
In short, Savin-William says, same-sex attraction only makes up about “5% to 10% of his sexual and romantic feelings.” The remaining 90-95% is devoted to the opposite sex.
Related: More and more straight guys are giving up “bro jobs” and engaging in “dude sex”
It’s a similar conclusion drawn by author Jane Ward in her 2015 bestselling book Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men and Tony Silva in his 2016 study Bud-Sex: Constructing Normative Masculinity Among Rural Straight Men That Have Sex With Men who both agree men can engage in homosexual behavior from time to time and still identify as straight.
“If we’re thinking of bisexuality or homosexuality as purely technical descriptions of sex acts and not sexuality identities, then yes, whenever somebody is engaged in homosexual sex we could say that it’s homosexual,” Ward told Queerty in a 2015 interview.
But, she added, “when straight-identified people engage in homosexual sex and they have no interest whatsoever in bi identification or gay identification … then it’s actually most useful to say these people are straight.”
Savin-Williams seems to have a similar belief. A “mostly straight” man, he writes, is “not an equal opportunity bisexual in disguise trying to hold out hope for straightness.” Nor is he “transitioning toward identifying as bisexual or gay” or “a closeted gay man who fears being gay yet wants to keep a slight, perhaps secretive, gay side by dangling his potential for guy sex.”
He may retreat from a full identification with heterosexuality, but rarely does he gravitate toward bisexuality, and almost never does he move toward homosexuality of any sort. Thus, he is a closer cousin to straight guys than to traditional bisexual guys.
You can read Savin-Williams’ the full article HERE. His book, Mostly Straight: Sexual Fluidity Among Gay Men, is available through Harvard University Press.
Related: Has Gay Men’s Obsession With ‘Straight’ Guys Gone Too Far?
Brian
But the real question is, are these mostly straight men attracted to feminine men? Or only masculine men?
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
YESSSS this is more like it! Been getting “straight guy” withdrawal symptoms
Creamsicle
The description of the mostly straight man is really reminiscent of how I felt as a gay teenager in denial. I say we leave these guys be. They have a lot of soul searching to do, and outside influences and voices will only be helpful on request. Wherever they end up landing on the orientation spectrum is a good place as long as they can feel comfortable talking about it and exploring at their own pace.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
“I say we leave these guys be”
But they need the succ tho. And they not wanna do the succ. 🙁
Knight
Creamsicle you kind of brought up another good point without even knowing it ; ) The older most guys get, the less sexually active they become. Yes, I realize I will have some people immediately branding me as “ageist” shouting “sex doesn’t end at 40!” etc. And yes, I get it…in the hypersexualized gay community most men feel their sexual activity has defined them for the majority of their life, so they don’t want to admit to any ‘slow down”. But I can say that married men have confided in me for most of my life, and they will tell me point blank that there is a drastic drop-off from sex with their wives from late 20s to early 30s. Most guys just accept it; and some even welcome it, since work, kids, other stress of daily life doesn’t exactly put them in the mood. In other words, when they were young, they may have had enough testosterone to power a small country, which also manifested itself in man-on-man encounters, when they age, it just doesn’t happen anymore because that drive isn’t there.
Donston
You have a point Knight. But also, as people age their instinctual arousal and attractions and desire for sexual conquests and sexual contact becomes less important and sometimes, as you said, less prominent. While other things become more important: passion, romantic satisfaction, finding a practical partner, whatever moral compass you follow, etc. So, persistent interest in bi behavior (whether gay-leaning or straight leaning/”mostly straight” or “mostly gay”) becomes less likely.
Tim44309
I agree with you Creamsicle! Except it’s almost like people who are possibly bisexual or maybe even gay now have a “legitimate” label for themselves that requires no personal challenge or sacrifice. How many of them are open about that attraction? Or are these the late night trysts that happen when the wife or GF are away? I’ve had many a man tell me they are “emotionally” connected to their female partner but “need” sex with men from time to time . . .
Creamsicle
That was a big part of why I didn’t date as a teenager. I didn’t want to risk hurting anyone if I had doubts about whether or not I was gay. Not everyone is in the same position as I was, since I didn’t have family or friends pressuring me to date. I understand why men would choose to stay in the closet about something they only think about intermittently, especially if they have found someone who satisfies their emotional needs.
Here’s hoping that a generation from now men and women can feel free to explore non-hetero and even polyamorous relationships openly and without fear. There’s been a ton of progress in the last 10 years alone. Who knows how much better life will be for people exploring their orientation 10 years from now?
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
Until the eminent professor Donston has pronouced and animadverted upon this with the full force of his world-class brain this study, alas, can hold but little interest to me
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
Doh! Donston wouldn’t have made that grammar or possibly punctuation error (and HE would’ve known the difference!) God, I worship him.
Donston
I get in caught in your feelings and I haven’t even posted yet. However, Professor Donston has made many grammatical errors on this site unfortunately.
Donston
And that post was an example of one of my typos/grammatical errors.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
*heart eyes*
Do clever words here tonite!
MasterJake
“Labels Limit”
Donston
Yes, it is possible to be “mostly straight” and “mostly gay”. That’s the point of the “spectrum”, right? Whether you can have some instinctual attraction or arousal towards a gender sometimes but no sustained (or any) passion and desire. Or you are only turned on by a specific body part that a gender has to offer. Or you’re turned by the idea of engaging sexually and/romantically with masculinity or femininity but lack real attraction or passion for the specific gender. Or you can feel a certain amount of romantic instincts towards a gender but have no substantial sexual attraction, passion or desire. It’s all very possible. In fact, there are probably more “mostly gay” men than 100% homo. And there are definitely more “mostly straight” guys than legitimate, close to 50-50 bi dudes.
However, because of the closet, because of homophobia (and trans-phobia), because of internalized homophobia, because people often come up with a multitude ways to delude themselves and/or deceive others, because people often come up with ways to shield megalomaniac instincts, because so many “mostly gay” and “mostly straight” men live only hetero public lives or attach themselves to the bi and fluid label and because of general embarrassment it can hard to suss what’s what and to suss out who’s being legit honest about their dimensions and motivations.
Getting past “label” peddling and agenda pushing and actually investigating and talking about the different degrees and dimensions of attractions, desires, passions, sexual pleasure, romantic instincts and romantic satisfaction is an important step for lgbtq. And that will actually help assist some people in gaining greater self-understanding and being for-real honest about who they are and what they want.
Professor Don.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
I don’t know what it all means but it fills the screen beautifully
Donston
You’re smarter than that DIVKID. There is nothing there difficult to decipher. Also, I got a perfect score with that particular essay.
Paco
So now “Bisexual” is “too gay”.
Enjoy your closet fellas. Hope they at least have the decency to not use their votes to harm the rest of us after they finished sucking d1ck in the shadows.
Heywood Jablowme
More like “too gay” for Graham Gremore’s fantasies.
Donston
Men who see themselves as “straight” or “mostly straight” will always be uncomfortable with the “bi” label. And I understand why as a “mostly gay” man. Most guys who embrace “bisexual” are “mostly gay” or are pan. That is what it is.
Paco
I just find it offensive. Once again there is a story about men that associate gay with something of shame to be unlabeled and kept secret, and straight as the only legitimate and worthy label to strive for. Saying you are mostly straight, except for that pesky need to indulge in gay sex, makes no sense.
Gay men have tons of sex without feelings or relationships being involved.
Donston
I agree that everybody and their mama tries hard to dissociate themselves with homosexuality and gay-ness. Just as many “mostly gay” men desperately hold on to the closet or cling to bi, fluid, flexible, etc identities to retain some sense of hetero-normalcy. I do prefer people who do not have substantial and sustained attraction, passion, desire and romantic satisfaction with men and women to not identify with simply “bi”. There is nothing wrong with saying you’re a very straight-leaning or gay-leaning or a “mostly gay” or “mostly straight” bisexual or pansexual or queer or whatever. That’s the place we have yet to get to because of “identity politics”, ego, sociological hang-ups and sometimes internalized homophobia or self-delusion.
Paco
I bet most of these guys are not much different than the ones that vote or run for office as conservative Republicans that tout “family values” and then get exposed as hypocrites in a gay sex scandal.
Donston
You’re probably right to some extent. Politicians and people with power are more likely to be megalomaniacs and are obviously more likely to be self-conscious with their public image, especially if they grow up in a religious or homophobic environment or are aligned with certain political ideology.
But if you’re only into someone’s dick or you merely occasionally enjoy the power you feel sexually dominating a certain gender or being sexually dominated by a certain gender or if your orientation leans greatly one way but you choose to mostly live your life another way for whatever reasons then there’s not much there to be “proud of”. It would be easier for straight-leaning and “mostly straight” men (and some gay-leaning and “mostly gay”) to be honest about themselves if they didn’t have to start spouting about “bi pride”. Easier but still difficult for some.
Paco
Another interesting thing is that Queerty’s sister site says that the guy that wrote this book is a gay man. Knowing how obsessed many gay men are with straight guys and wishing those straight guys want to have sex with them, I can’t help but to wonder how objective he really is. Evidence of something can be influenced by a researcher’s desired outcome. Especially when it comes to self-reporting and how questions are asked to the subjects.
Personally, I don’t see how shedding the labels of bisexual and gay in favor of a label that says “straight, but…” does anything to move us toward a no label era for sexuality or an end to homophobia. It seems to reinforce the homophobia by saying “I am more normal than the rest so please accept me”.
Pheonix398
Its like internalized homophobia is again resurrecting from the 70’s and 60’s, closet cases are redefining their hate for self. Like what the hell is a straight guy obsessed with the D for? Honestly bi erasure is real and its also getting worse. The community is so hard at work to delete themselves, that twitter even helped them with the job.
Josh447
“Most guys who embrace bi, are mostly gay or pan”
Evidence?
Knight
There is none. It’s just this idiot’s speculation.
Donston
Life experience and the results of legit research on bi-identifying men. Also, that’s a slight misquote.
The close to “50-50” bi man (where there is substantial attraction, desire, passion and romantic interest, and romantic and sexual satisfaction with men and women) is somewhat of a rarity. There tends to be some contradictions among those things, or distinct “leans” one way or the other, or some substantial passions and desires for non cis gender people, or attraction to “very young” people, or some behavior and instincts that are driven mostly by megalomania and/or fetish. Once you get past that, you’re left with a decisively small population. But still a population nonetheless.
Donston
Knight, you’ve given no real insight into your own orientation (beyond your bi identity), and you’ve given no real self-reliant opinion, just stuff from “people you know”. In fact, the only divisive thing you’ve said here is accusing feminist women of having something to do with the hyping of effeminate men. And you’ve yet to truly combat anything I’ve said. Yet, you’re obsessed with persecuting and dismissing me because of one exchanged, which I apologized for. I guess you’re another that is easily caught in your feelings when people challenge you or try to dig deeper.
And there have been quite a few studies on bi-identifying men and there are quite a few bi forums out there. I never just pull anything out of my arse.
Knight
And of course the resident troll crawls up from his sewer yet again. Pitiful and pathetic.
Donston
Dude, what have I said since you’ve been here that’s been in the least bit “troll-like”? You may not agree with what I say or it may make you uncomfortable but trolling isn’t “he’s not in line with my thought process”. Instead of trying to argue against my points you just say something bitchy or dismissive. That’s more “troll-like”. And I still believe you’re another poster in disguise. Otherwise, you have zero reason to feel any type of way about me. And even your quick temper and dismissive ways during our initial interaction made little sense for a new poster. Cut the BS.
Even I engage with people I see as “trolls”. If you’re not gonna engage then leave it be.
Knight
Troll-like is taking every opportunity to stalk me over uncountable threads now. You have some very unhealthy obsession with me, which is both pitiful and pathetic. You are a whiny bitch who resorts to ad hominem when you disagree with someone, as opposed to giving any real insight. I’ve told you to phuck off on many occasions, but you still can’t seem to take a hint. If I want the opinion of some random boy-bitch troll I’ll…wait…I’ve never asked for the opinion of a random boy-bitch troll.
Donston
Dude, you’re the one who came at me first in this thread. And no one is “stalking” anyone. It’s called a comment section. This is only the third article we’ve had any exchange. The second time we engaged I apologized for our (supposed) first encounter, though I didn’t think I was out of line the first time, and tried to have a decent exchange. You persisted with some over-the-top and bitchy and dismissive nonsense. In fact, that’s all you’ve had to offer in all several of our exchanges rather than further explaining yourself or dissecting what I say or simply ignoring someone if you don’t have any insight. Also, I’m pretty certain you no longer have to start every first comment with, “as a bisexual man”. It’s already getting lame, redundant and insecure-seeming and hasn’t at all been relevant to the topic on a couple occasions.
If what I say makes you uncomfortable I apologize, and I will make sure I don’t engage with you (as long as you don’t throw the first egg). But the dramatic antics and cursing and name-calling have been unnecessary and childish and ultimately says more about you than me.
Knight
You are too freakin’ clueless. You don’t “think you were out of line” because you were obviously raised by a whore who taught you that treating people like that is acceptable behavior. I didn’t “come at” you here or anywhere. I commented to someone ELSE. If you dropped dead from syphilis tomorrow I wouldn’t care one way or another. So, get this in your head; you mean NOTHING to me…get OVER me and phuck off.
Knight
As a bisexual man, it’s absolutely possible to define oneself as “mostly straight”…especially if you’re in a monogamous heterosexual relationship. There’s a misconception that bisexual men or women NEED homosexual gratification when in a heterosexual relationship…that’s not how it works for most of us. Like ALL relationships, if you are monogamous with your partner (male or female) then that’s that. If it’s an “open” relationship (and there are a LOT more of those out there than most people realize) then obviously the “rules” are different. I’ve known straight guys who have only had sex with one other guy, but who continue to do so because it “takes them back” to a time when they felt young (and it’s usually just jacking off from what I was told). So, yes, this is a thing.
dash_board1
This whole notion that we are who we identify as, and no questioning is allowed, is ludicrous. If you are sexually attracted to both men and women then you are, by definition, bisexual. Everything else is window dressing. You can identify as a fire hydrant, that doesn’t make it so.
I’m a gay man. I think some gay people misunderstand bisexuality and erroneously link it to homosexuality. But there is no connection, bisexuality is a wholly different and distinct orientation from homosexuality. I’ve listened to bi guys describe how their attractions between men and women can fluctuate over years, months or even from day-to-day. Or when they talk about being sexually into both men and women but only romantically attracted to one sex. I can listen and try to understand them but I’ll never know what that is like because I am homosexual. I know we are grouped together as LGB but there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that there are very real differences between the two orientations.
Donston
But you seem to have an issue with people (well, me) who admit that there are great ranges in bisexuality and that some people wish to find more specific and more socially and psychologically comfortable identities that fit their levels of attractions, desires, passions, romantic interests and lifestyles.
“Bisexual” will always only be a comfortable fit for men who live bisexual lifestyles and have legit and substantial romantic and sexual interest in men and women. And it will always be more fully embraced by gay-leaning men.
The purpose of “identities” and lgbtq in general should be to make it easier for people to honest with themselves and others, not to identify as what you want them to. Therefore, I’m fine with “mostly straight”, though I’d prefer straight-leaning or hetero-dominant.
dash_board1
@Donston, not sure if you meant to respond to my comment, but I don’t have a problem with you.
Anyway, onto your comment. I think everyone (well, most everyone) understands that there are ranges to bisexuality. That’s exactly what bisexuality represents: a spectrum (or range) between heterosexuality and homosexuality. No one is disputing that. But do we really need to invent new terms for every point along the bisexual spectrum? What does it matter if someone is a ‘gay-leaning’ or ‘straight-leaning’ bisexual? They are all still bisexual. I can understand it being personally relevant as a bisexual figures out his/her preference, but other than to yourself and your romantic partner, what does it matter to the outside world where on the bisexual spectrum you fall?
I guess I don’t fundamentally understand the new identity politics. Everyone keeps bemoaning how ‘limiting’ labels are, and yet there is this seemingly never-ending insistence on inventing new and evermore specific labels for every perceived difference. Wouldn’t it be more sensible for bisexuals to embrace the label, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, rather than try to divide and distance themselves from it by coming up with new terms for every type of bisexual 1-5 on the Kinsey scale? I mean, how many more letters can they add on to the LGB++++?
drmiller
@dash_board1 I totally agree. Let’s even take the gender terms out to make everyone happy. There are only four possibilities—you like penises, you like vaginas, you like both, or you like neither. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual. That’s it. I agree completely that the word “bisexual” is literally defined as someone who likes both genders. It doesn’t talk about how much or how little you like one or the other. If you like both, you fit the definition of a bisexual. You can rationalize that however you want, but that’s the word and that’s it’s definition.
Pheonix398
Twitter good job deleting fluidity, i mean if self accepting bisexuals in their community, can allow such bull**** to be spewed. Erasing them. They might as well remain caught in scandals,enjoying the divorces, misunderstanding and mental illness by delusion. Always wondered for example why bisexuals cant date each other? Already tells you majority are selfhating, they cant even stand or trust there own sexuality in their partner. Sad.
Donston
I’m pretty certain this is Prax so and so. (Another person with multiple usernames). Didn’t you already say that you think most bi-identifying men are either greatly gay or straight leaning? So, I don’t see the problem you have with this. Also, didn’t you say you have no interest in dating anyone who doesn’t identify as “gay” because otherwise they’re typically very troubled or sexual “deviants”? So, once again, I don’t see what issue you have with this. Except that perhaps you resent anyone who doesn’t identify as simply “straight” or “gay”.
Pheonix398
Sorry Danston am not Prax, so dont be surprised to find woke lgbt folks that dont buy into the new age self hate camouflage. Nothing like straightish or gayish. You like guys, you like girls. Your cool with getting down with any, be proud of that bi tag. Sometimes even some blur cheating as bisexual. Bisexuals need to shape up and make a community, before sociopathic bis redefine what bi is to the world.
Prax07
@Donston Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is my one and only username. I use it as my name on every site I’m on, as well as my email and gamertag. I may have multiple personalities, I am a gemini after all, but I can’t be bothering with multiple accounts as well. What other people do you think I am on here?
As far as my views on bi guys, that’s never going to waver. Liars, cheats, narcissist’s all. Mostly straight though, I know of only one personally. He’s 99% straight. Divorced, with custody of his two kids. Loves screwing women, straight porn, sports, works a mostly straight labor intensive job, lives on Budweiser and frozen pizza, and has one male “friend” he hooks up with to only be orally “serviced”. He’s apparently not bi, not questioning, not secretly gay, and not narcissistic at all. He’s told me it’s just easier, simpler, and better than with a woman, but has no illusions that it’s anything more than receiving great head. I find that blunt honesty refreshing.
Jaxton
“Mostly straight” means “I’m not going to let the GLBT community own me or define me”.
It also is a declaration of male virility with the option of turning to men if the man’s female partner become too controlling or fails to live up to her womanly duty of putting out.
It’s very empowering to men.
dash_board1
@Donston, not sure if you meant to respond to my comment, but I don’t have a problem with you.
Anyway, onto your comment. I think everyone (well, most everyone) understands that there are ranges to bisexuality. That’s exactly what bisexuality represents: a spectrum (or range) between heterosexuality and homosexuality. No one is disputing that. But do we really need to invent new terms for every point along the bisexual spectrum? What does it matter if someone is a ‘gay-leaning’ or ‘straight-leaning’ bisexual? They are all still bisexual. I can understand it being personally relevant as a bisexual figures out his/her preference, but other than to yourself and your romantic partner, what does it matter to the outside world where on the bisexual spectrum you fall?
I guess I don’t fundamentally understand the new identity politics. Everyone keeps bemoaning how ‘limiting’ labels are, and yet there is this seemingly never-ending insistence on inventing new and evermore specific labels for every perceived difference. Wouldn’t it be more sensible for bisexuals to embrace the label, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, rather than try to divide and distance themselves from it by coming up with new terms for every type of bisexual 1-5 on the Kinsey scale? I mean, how many more letters can they add on to the LGB++++?
Donston
I don’t think there needs to be more letters. How about just being okay with “mostly straight” guys not wanting to join the club? As I mentioned, “bi” will always only be a more comfortable sociological and psychological fit for gay-leaning men who live gay or mostly gay lifestyles, unabashed gay-leaning who still want to maintain some sense of hetero-normalcy or hetero-dynamics and men who persistently have sex and relationships with multiple genders or someone who falls somewhere in he middle of the “spectrum”. Almost no man who only has relationships with women or only has interest in occasional hook-ups with guys or has only the smallest amount attraction and passion for men is truly gonna embrace “bi” unless money or notoriety is involved or they feel social pressure to do so. And so many of these “labels” (the old and new ones) are used to manipulate people or for people to manipulate themselves rather than being about revealing and embracing who you are.
I’m not one of those “I don’t believe in labels” people. But I accept someone simply saying they’re “mostly straight” or “mostly gay” or as I mentioned: straight or gay leaning whatever, homo-dominant or hetero-dominant whatever. (Almost anything is better than simply “fluid”). We need to let people embrace their individuality and live in their thorough truths rather than getting caught up in a definitive identity that’s been around for a while. Once again, this’ll help more people come out, get a greater understanding of who they are and be authentic. That should be the only emphasis. Everything else is just social politics. Who cares about letters?
Pheonix398
Donston “mostly straight dont want to be tagged as lgbt?” Arent you working hard to erase straight people with that thinking. Please internalized homophobia is the next fight for the lgbt community and this need to want so hard to be straight, even erasing straight people by saying a straight guy is all too cool with hooking up with a guy is beyond ludicrous. Its a shame that homophobia makes one go to all this extent. Its basically fighting self, to live a toxic life of fairytales. If a gay or bi accepting larger dude or twink can accept, that a muscular guy may not want him, even if he fantasizes about them. A bi guy should accept that maybe a straight girl may not want a fluid guy, regardless of percentage. Imagine if you still go to any extent to camouflage, so as to get people that may not like you to be in a relationship. Its disturbing as it represents ones self value and its rapey, as you think its a must. Instead of fighting ignorance, to help others understand, your becoming narcissists to force people to hate you later and your own community when they learn you deceived.
PinkoOfTheGange
The “too gay” is that a negative or a descriptive concept?
Are these guys just Kinsey 2’s and anything higher would be inaccurate, therefore too far on the homosexual side of the scale.
Sexuality is not only who you can get it up for, but who you connect with. So the I enjoy a dick every once and a while but only can connect deeply with a female makes perfect sense. At least to me.
For a bunch of gay guys some of you are sure hung up on sex.
Prax07
Too gay…for me, that is definitely a negative quality. Take youtuber Joey Graceffa (not sure if I spelled that right). The guy is def attractive, until he opens his mouth and a tween girl comes out. Then there’s the videos. Makeup tutorials and unboxing videos for eye shadow, painted nails, pink glitter everywhere, etc. He just posted a video where he wears women’s high heels for a day. WTF?
To me people like him are toxic, and sets us all up to look like we’re all just mincing she-boys only concerned with everything feminine, from makeup, women’s fashion, and wanting to be little girls. He’s a huge YouTube celebrity bringing how we’re viewed back to comic girly caricatures.
Paco
“To me people like him are toxic, and sets us all up to look like we’re all just mincing she-boys only concerned with everything feminine, from makeup, women’s fashion, and wanting to be little girls.”
If people can’t see with their own eyes that you are a different flavor of gay man than the one you described, then you are either doing something wrong or not that much different than he is.
Pheonix398
Prax if a feminine gay man makes you insecure, for your more concerned with how your viewed by Mike pences of the world. Then its quite telling of your mental health and the shallow relationships you form, it aint pretty.
I mean if a homophobe can overlook all the Matt bomers, masculine gay and bi men and feminine men to see the diversity of the lgbt community. Newsflash, they dont care if your masc or fem, to them as long as your into guys, sucking D,being sucked by a guy or being f#ed,kissing etc. Your just all in the same boat. Dehumanized.
Prax07
@Paco I’m not the one broadcasting that toxicity to millions of YouTube viewers. I interact with a handful of people in person, not millions.
Prax07
I simply don’t want every gay man to be lumped in with these she-men. I don’t wear makeup or high heels, I don’t go loony over Taylor Swift, nor do I take women clothes shopping so I can give them fashion tips. The highly visible ones do though, and they’re the ones fronting these toxic female behaviours to millions. They don’t represent me, so I don’t support these freakshows any more than I’d support loony religious whacko’s.
Pheonix398
Prax a religious whacko harms people, as they preach hate globally. Who do feminine men hurt, do they preach hate-shouting this makeup should do the trick and kill all gay people? Dude you have major insecurities, trying to control others on how to live their lives, based on homophobes. Yeah internal homophobia.Let me guess you also have issues with trans folks. See a shrink.
Prax07
They’re hurting all of us by being negative (hated) stereotypes. You may not care if Jack & Jane biblefreak wants you dead because of how flamboyantly queer some of these personalities are, but I do. I don’t want to get bashed when someone finds out I’m gay because they think we’re all exactly like Joey Graceffa or any of his ilk.
And yes, I do have problems with the mentally ill (trans whacko’s) being allowed to mutilate their bodies, and being included in with LG’s.
Heywood Jablowme
@Prax07: You hurt all the rest of us Trump-hating people when you said you wish Trump would get assassinated. That causes the Trumpozoid whackos to tar us all as “lefties who want Trump dead.”
It’s the exact same thing.
Heywood Jablowme
I do get your point (sort of) because the bashers you refer to would be teenage boys & young men who MIGHT be seeing Joey Graceffa videos on YouTube. But you’re doing the exact same provocation with your Trump comments.
Prax07
Yeah no, hoping for the assassination of a narcissistic megalomaniac isn’t quite the same thing.
Heywood Jablowme
What you’re doing is worse. Joey Graceffa may be annoying, but nothing he’s doing is illegal and he’s just living his life. What you’re doing – if you did it under your own name – would be illegal and you’d get investigated by the Secret Service.
DCguy
Now that the term “Hetero Flexible” which some gay blogs were trying to promote was pointed out to be a homophobic term supporting the closet and was encouraging “Bi-Erasure” the self hating closet cases have launched a NEW attempt to enshrine the closet. “Hetero Flexible” has become “Mostly Straight”.
Isn’t it interesting that all of these people who scream about labels being a bad thing seem to LOVE labels if they contain the words “Hetero” or “Straight” in them?
gayand gray
This is not new , was in High School 1964-1968 . Had more sex with sport playing jocks. Every night of the week , after the dropped their girl friends off. They would call to see what I was doing. Sometimes we went for a milk shake, some called to spend the night. No one could call any of them gay. Because I was their friend, and that I was gay , we had sex. Not one ever called me queer or fag . They also protected me from all bullies. On of my best guy friend spent the week with me, going out to dinner , movies, dancing. then on Friday morning left to go to his wedding. I have met their wives, children, parents . None of who would ever suspect what the two of us had been up to.
Pheonix398
Mess of it all. They call women that cheat on there husbands or cheat with a married man. Terrible names. I wonder what your mess, would be called.
Mandrake
This is old news. Alfred Kinsey addressed all this with his line of continuum explaining varying degrees of sexual orientation in his landmark book ” Sexual Behavior in the Human Male” published back in 1948.