![obama-speaking[1]](https://queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com/wp/docs-null/2010/01/obama-speaking1.jpg "obama-speaking[1]")
That the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Don’t is not imminent? That much we should be able to agree on. Despite the president’s assurances that he would work with Congress and the Pentagon, “within the year,” to repeal the policy, wiser folks (read: you, readers) know that’s more lip service than anything. “Within the year” means he’ll start Venn Diagramming his campaign promise; this week’s Senate hearings are one example of such. But let’s take a look at why nixing DADT is actually not in the foreseeable future.
It’s more likely an effort for Obama’s second term. But don’t raise your eyebrows — we’ve been saying as much since Obama took office.
This week, the Pentagon will announce it is “investigating” the policy. That’s a nice cozy word for things like “issuing memos,” “reviewing operational procedures,” and “measuring readiness.” Which itself is code for “perpetual delays.”
Despite what appears to be momentum on the White House’s part, unnamed “officials” are planting items in in the press saying the DADT process could take years. That commentators find this surprising is, well, sad; they should be more informed than we, yes?
Instead, Obama addressing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell in his State of the Union speech last week reeks of more lip service. The president does not yet have the support of his military leaders to kill the policy, and until they are all on board, it’s unlikely he’ll mount a “my way or the highway” approach. (It’s a bad sign when the Pentagon’s own press secretary, Geoffrey Morrell, refuses to take questions on the matter.)
Most sadly, we’ve been here before: Obama tells homosexuals and their supporters he is working hard on their behalf, and then all of Gay Inc. rallies behind him without so much as a stroke of irony. This isn’t the path to progress. It’s the path to delays. And if you think your lawmakers are going to stand up and pressure Obama to quicken the process, then you obviously don’t know how complacency and cowardice works.
Brian NYC
He didn’t “promise to repeal DADT,” he promised to “work with Congress.” Big difference.
The majority of the US Senate is anti-LGBT. He can “work” all he wants, anything LGBT-related is DOA.
His intent is to be able to say “I tried, I really, really tried” and then rightfully blame the Congress. Of course, they’ll blame him. And, so it goes with politics.
There is no political solution to LGBT equality. It’s a waste of time and money.
Kevin
@Brian NYC: Don’t be so cynical. In the past 10 years, we have seen LGBT rights take leaps and bounds. Some of those wins have been judicial and others have been direct action by our legislators. Sure, we don’t get huge output for the amount of money we spend. Civil rights are not proving to be very cost efficient, but what is the price of equality? Good things are coming our way, albeit slowly, but we should not abandon hope. I am not saying we should lay down palms before Obama’s feet; by all means, keep the pressure on, just don’t become cynical because then you let the Maggie Gallaghers and Anita Bryants of the world win.
Jon Martin
Well long story short I want to see firings stop by Jan 1, 2011 or Obama loses my vote and money. I think the gay community needs to be giving our money to Gay Inc. instead of Obama and hopeless Dems. I wish I could serve our country….
http://url2it.com/cbni …#1 reason for DADT to be repealed.
Ian
Of all people interestingly enough it seems the current answer to this question is from none other than one of the gay porn kings Michael Lucas: http://www.queerclick.com/archive/2010/01/michael_lucas_asks_the_advocate_where_is.php
We need a leader who is PISSED and DEMANDS action, all the while being in the politicians FACES like a bad rash. Sadly those in the HRC and it’s ilk have proven to be complacently useless, as spineless in their own way as the Dems are towards any progressive agenda or towards the Republicans.
Steve
The Democrats in Congress can repeal DADT next week, if they decide to.
There is no legitimate reason for any delay. Everyone in the military already knows that there are gay people in uniform. It’s not a big deal to the vast majority of them. Repealing DADT will make no difference at the operational level, except that some people will no longer be under orders to lie to the people they work with every day.
If DADT is still law when a Progressive candidate asks me for money, that candidate gets a donation. If DADT is still law the next time a Democrat asks for a donation, the answer will be “No!”
If that “spoils” the election for some Democrat incumbent, so be it. With “friends” like the Democrats have been in recent years, I don’t need enemies.
Brian NYC
@Kevin: I wasn’t being cynical, I was being practical. We waste a ton of money on politics and right now it’s 1994 (Bill Clinton) all over again.
I agree there has been some progress, but the idea that our equality will come from politics is ludicrous. Right now 50% of the US Senate is very anti-LGBT. That’s not changing soon – in fact, the reality is it will be getting much worse.
Your obsession with politics isn’t hope, it’s false hope and it prevents us from looking for other ideas to achieve our full equality. Ultimately, it will be US that finally figures out how and when we will WIN.
Brian NYC
@Ian: Sorry. The 50-55 US Senators that are anti-LGBT are not going to change their minds because of “demands.” Those Senators listen to their constituents, no matter what type of pressure you devise.
HRC has wasted +$500 million putting pressure on politicians and we have little to show for it. Politics (and lobbying) are a waste of time and money. Same goes for emails, letters, calls, etc. it is a waste. Senators won’t change their minds until their constituents do.
@Steve: Ahhhh, the Democrats don’t have the votes – that’s the problem. There are less than 50 Senators willing to repeal DADT. That’s not enough.
dan j
In California, the Dems have passed hate crimes protections, employment and housing protections and even marriage equality twice, only to be vetoed by the Republican governor, and then voted away by the majority. I’m not saying they are perfect, and I realize that is not true for every state and certainly not on the national level. But here, we have been able to get major legislation passed by Dems. As a party, they support gay equality, while the Republicans as a party, oppose equality.
So don’t be too quick to condemn the entire party for the bad actions of some of the members. By all means, vote for anyone who supports your rights, even if only verbally, and then hold them to their promises. And if they won’t say the right things, vote for someone who will. Especially in the primaries. (Where I often vote Green)
But we are a small minority, though we have straight supporters and need to persuade more to join us. So when it comes down to the final vote, if you don’t vote, or vote for someone who has no chance of winning, you allow those who oppose us to have the power to harm us. Voting for someone who only says the right things is better than allowing those who say the wrong things to have a platform to spread the stigmatization attached to their words. We have made progress, but have a long way to go. A little step forward is better than moving backward.
Lukas P.
@Brian NYC. I’ve read dozens of your posts and yet to hear you offer any constructive idea. What am I missing? Please enlighten us as to your own suggestions about what to do, and stop repeating your now-stale monolog on what NOT to do. Please add your voice to the discussion by offering your actual thoughts of what YOU think we should do versus showing off a tremendous desire to copy and paste the exact same lines of text from one thread to another, from one week to the next. Thanks!
P.s. Honestly: thank you for retiring the overuse of the all caps word “WIN.” in every post. I did notice.
tofer david
it is nowhere near nothing like bill clinton all over again. if it were we would be better off, but instead obama is going to put his head down and just continue doing what he has done for the past year. he actually thinks that this nation is willing to fulfill far left policies. he misread the 2008 election and continues to misread the pulse of the people. for all the ills that bill clinton may have been he at least had a good sense to follow the people’s will and actually brought abot some changes that benefited the american people as a whole.
we are a nation of conservative leaning independents, not far leftists. i am personally neither, but i am not blind to what we are as a nation.
more doom nothing policies in the coming year that will further sink this administration.
clinton would have enacted a course change. obama is a poor politician. what did we expect? he was able to get elected because people wanted hope and change in 2008. we still want change, but obama isn’t serving any of it up. he only speaks it. there is little difference between much of what he is doing on the financial and foreign perspective than what bush did and he only further escalated our war commitments. he has turned the leadership over to congress, which is led by pelosi and reid and they don’t get it either.
jason
The Democrats are weak-kneed pussies. Just look at what happened recently in Hawaii with gay civil unions. The Democrat-controlled House there failed to give its approval to them. And let’s not forget those bastions of “liberalism”, New York and New Jersey where the Democrats rebuffed us as well.
The Democrats are failures and flops. Every member of the GLBT community needs to tell the Democrats to take a hike.
simon
Obama’s tactics are stalling tactics. Like the true Democrat, he gives the appearance of “caring” for us when in fact he’s simply distracting us. I’m not falling for it and I hope many other don’t either.
Brian NYC
@Lukas P.: Giving up on politics is constructive. For us to finally stop playing that game is constructive. From there, we should all focus on figuring out how to win. I didn’t say we couldn’t win, I said politics isn’t the answer.
I believe we must take our case to the people. We must get people to stand with us for equality. I think it’s possible to get the majority of Americans to stand with us. We need to figure out how to do that, because when we do – we’d own the politicians. That would be game over.
You know we don’t take our case to the people and instead we rely on politics. We need to get over that – the sooner, the better.
Brian NYC
@tofer david: Bill Clinton gave us DADT and DOMA. Obama will preserve them.
Kevin
@Brian NYC: That’s a pretty naive view point. We have a representative democracy and for anything to change, we need it to go through our legislators. Public ballot initiatives have most definitely proved to not be in our best interest and running those campaigns is quite costly. Judicial activism is an option, but it is slow moving. The best bet to get full equality is to push for federal or state legislation. Ballot initiatives and judicial trials are too piece-meal. I do agree with you that we need to get popular opinion on our side or the politicians will never vote for our rights. I just don’t think we should give up the pressure on our politicians and wait for the public opinion to swing our way. That is going to take quite a long time unless we keep pushing our issues and make people think about their views on LGBT equality.
Brian NYC
@Kevin: Like you just said: “we need to get popular opinion on our side or the politicians will never vote for our rights.”
You have identified exactly what we need to do first.
But, we can’t “wait for public opinion to swing our way” we need to move public opinion. If we put as much money and time and energy into THAT, we’d get the public. Because, like you said, we don’t win politically UNTIL WE DO.
crystal.glass
@Steve:
Sorry Steve, it is a big deal to those of us who serve. It never ceases to amaze me how people who never served, never will serve, didn’t have any plans on serving, etc., are the ones telling military personnel how to live. They put a lesbian in the room with me. It doesn’t work. A lot of females in the military have to endure lesbian advances and we HATE it. I hope if DADT is repealed, there is strengthened military criminal laws on “sexual harassment.”
Kevin
@crystal.glass: First off, thank you for your service. Unfortunately, gay and lesbian soldiers are forced to rely on the advocacy of those already discharged, retired, or civilian. The reality of DADT is that gay and lesbain soldiers cannot advocate for themselves or they risk being discharged.
It’s an interesting point you bring up. I’ve also seen many reports that women experience sexual harassment from male superiors. They’re afraid to report it because they don’t want to be accused of being a lesbian and discharged. Some of these woman are actually not even gay. This is one form of sexual harassment and coercion/blackmail that would vanish with a DADT repeal. If what you are saying is indeed a reality, it should be addressed. But make no mistake, two wrongs do not make a right. Maybe if lesbian soldiers were able to serve openly and freely, they would be hitting on each other and not trying to guess which of their peers would be receptive of their advances. If anything, you have reinforced the argument for a full repeal of DADT.
Inspired2b
While Obama is doing something to help get DADT repealed, let’s help him out by making sure we are pressuring our legislators. Call them, write them, visit them. Let them know YOU want them to be co-sponsors to the legislation (Military Readiness Enhancement Act) – Do it this week and keep it up until they have become a co-sponsor. Talk to your friends and neighbors and get them to call, write, visit. This is a team effort and Obama is not the only one responsible to DO SOMETHING. I’ve placed my hand on the arc of universe and I am helping to bend it toward justice – are you?
schlukitz
No. 16 · crystal.glass
A lot of females in the military have to endure lesbian advances and we HATE it.
Good Lord!!! Would you care for some cheese with your whine?
If you butch ladies who have been specially trained at great cost to the taxpayers of this country to engage in hand-to-hand combat with lethal weapons, endure mortar fire, rockets and the rigors of military life can’t even deal with an occasional sexual advance from a member of your own troops, just how the hell will you hold up to a military attack from the enemy?
Brian NYC
@Inspired2b: Please provide some evidence that calling, emailing or otherwise harassing our elected officials for LGBT matters actually works. Please provide at least one example. Thank-you.
Kevin
@Brian NYC: I’ve personally met with State senators in PA addressing issues in our state. I’ve also done quite a bit of work on health care reform in the state. Constituent lobbying is actually still an effectual method for getting things done in the state legislatures, at least in PA. I know that state bodies like NY, which are wrought with corruption, do not function so ideally. Take it for what its worth.
Rich
@BrianNYC: Earlier this year, I worked to get the number of co-signers on the Military Readiness Enhancement Act (bill to repeal DADT) up to a larger number in the House of Representatives. I aggressively targeted my social network in Wisconsin to call the Congressional representatives from that state on nearly a daily basis, and they did the same. Within three weeks, we gained 2 additional co-signers from Wisconsin. I have direct feedback from the offices of those representatives that they were inunundated with calls and e-mails from constituents during a very short period of time, and that drove their decision to co-sponsor.
You are also incorrect to believe that there will be some grassroots, non-political solution to ending the DADT policy. Minorities are never granted rights by the majority through anything but legislative and judicial action. We have over a century of history in civil rights to prove this. I do think the messages of our lobbying need to change — less writing checks and more overt demonstrations of dissatisfaction, letter-writing, phone calls, and vocal protest will make more inroads than campaign contributions.
You also need to recognize that of all the LGBT constitutencies, gay military members have essentially no voice to influence this decision-making process. They are in the closet by law and unable to protest the injustices of DADT without giving up their right to serve. When other members of the LGBT community say they are not willing to pursue any political activism to repeal DADT, it is a severe blow to this initiative. Servicemembers rely on their allies in gay and lesbian community to speak loudly on their behalf because they have no voice of their own.
Brian NYC
@Kevin: I asked for evidence Kevin. Some proof that lobbying has gotten any politician to change their mind in our favor. Just give me one.
Brian NYC
@Rich: The Civil Rights Act was passed 45 years ago. Racism still exists. THAT political solution didn’t work.
If you have verifiable evidence that a politician changed his or her mind about an LGBT issue due to visits, calls or emails – you should publish it. Anti-LGBT positions are only movable by actual constituency polling. In that case we have seen a few politicians changing with their constituents (voters) but we have NEVER seen an example of “lobbying” changing any politicians mind.
If you have that evidence, please share.
Rich
@BrianNYC
Polling indicates that 70% of the population is in favor of DADT repeal — across both parties and all spectrums of society. More than half of weekly church-goers support DADT repeal. A plurality of Republicans support repeal. So, your theory that constituency polling is the only thing to influence the minds of politicians is false. If that were the case, DADT would have already been repealed based on the polling data over the past decade. We would also already have health care reform in this country based on polling that shows a majority of Americans in favor of reform.
The health care debate is actually a very good example of where lobbying has a direct impact on policymaker views, even against the views of the population demonstrated through polling. Without the lobbying of the health industry and insurance companies, how many politicians would already have voted for comprehensive health care reform already? Based on your assertions, do you believe that corporations have no influence in our policymaking?
If you want to give up on the gay and lesbian servicemembers, that’s your perogative. They’ll still fight for your right to live an open and honest lifestyle. Also remember, when a gay and lesbian servicemember dies on the battlefield, their same-sex partner is left in the dark — no phone call, no letter, no word of condolence from the military or the commander-in-chief. Does it really take a poll to show that this is wrong?
Lukas P.
@Brian NYC: So ceasing to do something is the best idea you’ve got to propose? Really? I assumed, quite naively, you had some other thoughts ideas. Keep thinking.
I ‘m afraid that you’re turning into a one note guy, like the man who shows up at every town hall meeting to complain about how ugly the streetlamps are. That’s all he cares about. Trying to get him to help find alternatives doesn’t work. Trying to get him to get involved in other issues results in nothing. He reads his newspaper during the meeting and ignores everything else except the magical word “streetlamp.”
You’re a smart guy, but when are you going to get involved in some issue that you’re passionate about- — something away from the computer so you learn that the real world is more complicated and messy and wonderful and rewarding and scary than you think?
Just promise me that you’ll not get obsessed with streetlamps.
Steve
@crystal.glass:
You just made my point. Gay people are in the services now, in every command of any significant size. Most of them do their jobs just fine.
Unwanted sexual advances happen sometimes, both straight and gay. Most people take “no” for an answer. When they don’t — that’s what sexual-harassment laws are for.
Repealing DADT is really about being honest with the people in your unit. When some soldiers are under orders to lie to the others, or when people with critical skills are arrested and discharged, it affects readiness and cohesion.
Brian NYC
@Rich: Your polling is National Polling, sorry but that’s not what US Senators pay attention to. Try again.
The majority of citizens in 23 US States are anti-LGBT. You can’t achieve anything in the US Senate until you take care of that reality.
Brian NYC
@Lukas P.: Read the comment again Lukas. I’m not going to play childish games with you.
Brian NYC
@Rich: Lobbying on Healthcare? That’s your evidence. Those lobbyists are fighting over money and how laws will effect their profits. In that case, lobbying or bribes work. That’s one of our biggest problems with government.
But, I asked you to provide evidence that lobbying worked for LGBT issues. There is none. Anti-LGBT is non-negotiable. You can’t bribe them. So, all the lobbying, calling, emailing, shouting or anything else makes NO difference. All you can do is change the minds of their constituents – if you don’t, you lose.
Sam
@Lukas P.: I think Brian NYC did give you something to think about Lukas:
Giving up on politics is constructive. For us to finally stop playing that game is constructive. From there, we should all focus on figuring out how to win. I didn’t say we couldn’t win, I said politics isn’t the answer.
I believe we must take our case to the people. We must get people to stand with us for equality. I think it’s possible to get the majority of Americans to stand with us. We need to figure out how to do that, because when we do – we’d own the politicians. That would be game over.
You know we don’t take our case to the people and instead we rely on politics. We need to get over that – the sooner, the better.
I get it. I’ve thought politics was a waste of time for a while. Then came Obama. I got fooled. Now, I am certain – politics is a waste of time. I like Brian’s ideas. I would get involved in something like he proposed. Until we get people to join us we’re screwed.
You should read it again Lukas.
Ken_and_Juan
Brian NYC makes sense. We should focus on the people and NOT the politics. We’ve wasted a lot of time and money on phony politicians. DADT needs to be repealed, but it won’t happen in the near future. My friend says they’re going to present a 10-year phase-in plan. It’s just more bs.
We’re going to talk to our neighbors. And, their neighbors. That just might work.
Rich
@Brian NYC: How do you explain Sen. Collins (R-Maine) changing her position on DADT repeal (she officially changed her position in 2007). She is now in favor of repeal, when previously she said the law was OK. Based on the ballot box results against gay marriage in Maine, it seems there is plenty of anti-gay sentiment in her state, plus she is a Republican and DADT repeal is against the party platform. What changed Senator Collins’ mind? The Senator credits a retired, gay admiral who came to her office to discuss the issue — that, in my book, would be the definition of lobbying impact that directly influenced a Senator to change positions outside of any influence in constituent thinking.
Brian NYC
@Rich: Sorry Rich, Maine is 50/50 for LGBT equality. The voters in Maine changed her mind. If she was in Alabama (70% anti-LGBT) she never would have changed her mind – retired gay Admiral or not.
Politicians respond to polling of their constituents ONLY. If they don’t, they’re no longer politicians.
Brian NYC
@Rich: By the way, the results in Maine did not reflect the opinions of the whole State – in fact only 299,438 people in Maine voted against us. That’s only 23% of Maine’s population.
We lost in Maine because we didn’t get the vote out – religion did. It helps that they have 1,700 churches. To win, we needed to appeal to our fellow citizens. We didn’t do that. We relied on politics – and Democrats. We lose again.
Until we focus on the people, politics will continue to screw us. People won’t, but we have to ask for their help.
AndrewW
Interesting comments.
I would like to add this:
If you can find a politician that changed their mind because of lobbying, or any other form of pressure, to support our equality – I will pay you $100,000. Show me some evidence. Email me: [email protected] Yes, I am serious.
We have decades of evidence that any effort to apply pressure to politicians for an LGBT issue that is contrary to their ability to get re-elected, is impossible to change with lobbying. The opinions of their constituents always prevail – because it is about getting re-elected. That’s why they invest a lot in polling. We don’t.
Rich
@BrianNYC: Since it’s clear that we have no hope of overturning DADT until the people Alabama decide they are comfortable with LGBT rights, I would like to ask you a favor. Please send a contribution to the Servicemember’s Legal Defense Network. They provide free legal counsel and advice to servicemembers who are being discharged under DADT. They’ll obviously need continued funding to pay for these legal services while we wait for the state of Alabama to progress.
I also wonder. Did we wait for Alabama to become in favor of the civil rights movement for blacks when we de-segregated the Armed Services under Harry Truman?
Your arguments on Maine aslo don’t make any sense. You’re essentially moving the goalposts to advocate your own view. If all politicians care about is getting elected, they should focus on the voters that show up at the ballot box on election day. I don’t care if its 23% or 68%, the people who show up are the only ones that matter. And based on the outcome of the Maine vote, all the politicians in Maine should be aligned with the bigots since they proved they know how to get out the vote better than the other constituencies. Polls of the broader population don’t amount to a whole lot if those people don’t vote. I suspect politicians are pretty savvy in figuring out ahead of time who the real voters are and aren’t.
Brian NYC
@Rich:
1. I already support Servicemember’s Legal Defense Network and I wish more people would. We need to help our LGBT brothers and sisters, especially those who chose to serve our country.
2. I nver said wait for Alabama. Fuck Alabama. But, we need enough States to change the votes in the US Senate.
3. Like I said before – the polling in Maine represents the voters. The same-sex marriage vote – Prop 1 – was not in the election cycle. The turnout was low. The results were worse. But, you were asking about politicians taking a “stand” on something. They will not take a stand for LGBT equality until the polling (in their State) makes it safe.
4. Recent polling in Maine suggests that 64% of the adults in Maine support full equality for LGBT persons. That’s huge.
5. Gay Inc. and all the nose-in-the-ass-of-politics advocates and activists will ignore that reality and continue to wish and hope for a political solution. They will encourage us to “continue the good fight” and then ask for our money, but we should KNOW BETTER.
We have to get over this stupid idea that politics will save us. Especially when the data says the people will. We should invest in our fellow man – not the political weasels. Politics will never save us.
Brian NYC
Oh. regarding the Civil Rights Act of 1964 – Blacks were oppressed. We are hated. There is a big difference. But, 45 years later, racism exists in 30% of Americans. The same people hate us. That is the key to our success. We need to marginalize that 30% – make them the minority. Until we do THAT – we will be the “hated” minority.
The problem is Gay Inc. (and many activists) make the 30% of the population this big, hard-to-beat enemy. They do that to get our money. They do that to keep the argument going. They do that to keep their organizations in existence. They do that for their salaries.
We need to wake up and do some math. Our enemy is not as powerful as Gay Inc. wants (and needs) us to believe. THEY are the minority. When we realize that fact, maybe we’ll stop acting like the helpless, victimized minority. Then, we could actually WIN.
LoveMoby
@Jon Martin:
At this time Obama has already lost my vote. He is such a disappointment when it comes to GLBT issues. I guess the plan is to string us along until his second term but what he forgets is….he may not get a second term.
Brian NYC
@LoveMoby: Unfortunately Obama is only thinking about getting re-elected. Therefore, we lose. Politics will not save us – only the people can do that.
Robert, NYC
The key to our equality lies not with politics but with the people. We already have PFLAG on our side and we need to get other straight progressive allies to form one coalition to demand full equality. Its not going to come from politicians, HRC or anywhere else. If the likes of Gallagher can form a powerful hate movement, why can’t we counter that with our own? The only way to deal with the Dems is to send them a loud message and the time is now. Tell them that unless they deliver, they’ll get no support in the voting booth or financial help either. Either deliver or suffer the consequences. For far too long, they’ve been taking our votes and our money for granted. Time for that to change. Without us, they can’t win an election of any substance.
Rich
Please provide a concrete or specific methodology to reach “the people,” if not through political mobilization. Using your words, what is the plan to “marginalize” the 30% that “hate” us? The opposition to LGBT rights is very politically mobilized. They intensely lobby their representatives in government. They make phone calls, write letters, and contribute billions to keep a conservative movement alive. They mount multi-million dollar campaigns to get their voters to the ballot box — even if polling suggests that the population is not in their favor. If we’re to withdraw from politics, what is the new arena to carry out this fight?
Rich
We already have PFLAG on our side? Step out of NYC for 10 seconds and realize that PFLAG isn’t organized or established in 99% of America. Very few progressive groups are as well organized as the opposition, and they never will be. It’s far easier for the proponents of fear and scapegoating to organize an opposition to LGBT rights. Progressive groups don’t have the same tools at their disposal.
Rowen
Goddamnit, I’m tired of hearing people whine, and complain and bitch about Obama, and say that he lost their vote. Guess what boys, contrary to what LaRouche might believe, WE HAVE A FUCKING TWO PARTY SYSTEM IN AMERICA.
So, if every single gay man and woman gets pissed and doesn’t vote for Obama, guess who wins. . . the Republicans. I haven’t been as happy with Obama as I’d like to be, but AT LEAST HE’S NOT BUSH. However, if we, as Democrats and Independants INSIST on holding him to some Magical Negro lofty ideal and then pout and whine and take our toys away when he doesn’t deliver, guess who wins? THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS!!
Maybe he’s not 100% on our side, and maybe he’s willing to let certain things slide, but, right now, he’s better then the opposition. The Democrats are in a shitty position right now. They’re a fragmented club with lots of people trying to pull them in lots of different directions AND a bunch of people who’ve decided it’s better to play nice then to get anything done. The Republicans, on the other hand, have a purity test, and only have to show that they’re against three things, taxes, gay marriage, and abortion. After that, they have a solid base, and only have to play a waiting game until, as they suppose, the Democrats implodes or splinters in a myriad of small groups, none which are a threat.
Brian NYC
@Rich: Lobbying on both sides is a waste of money. Politicians want you to believe it is effective, but it isn’t regarding LGBT issues.
You marginalize the 30% by enrolling the other 70%. That’s not something that’s done with politics – it must be done by us. Everyone knows that’s the only thing that will work, but we’ve never tried.
Rich
I’ll run out and start enrolling people today! Where do I tell them to sign up?
Michael in Maine
We can argue forever if calling Congress helps or not, but one thing is for sure: NOT calling does NOT help.
So why not pick up the damn phone and call? If it does something, then great. If not, then so what? You wasted two minutes of your life?
As I understand it, when you call Congress the people who answer the phone keep tallies of how many people are for and against each issue. How can it hurt to let your Congresspeople know what your position is? It might not make a difference, but it might.
BUSSY
I really dont see how Obama has failed u. Because his magic wand did not repeal DADT and DOMA in twelve months? Dat bastard!! Or that he did not crow when states were determining if they want gay marriage? The muthafuka. I mean he is the president to the gays only screw the entire nation who do not actually support gay marriage. Or his DOJ actually did their job and protected a law that was under attack….oh im sorry it was a diss. My bad! Obama you fool.
When u are done whining, let some level of maturity step in and please take a look round you. A good hard look. Repubs are geting their balls back. They are gearing for a fight. While u are being bitter and refusing to support your only chance of any equality…they are proposing constitutional amendments to make marriage a purely hetero thing. It wont win right???? Ok sure. Have u seen prop 8 trial? You think NOM has not done their damage already? Wake up…
Michael in Maine
Here’s a website that shows where we have support and where we need more support:
http://www.sldn.org/content/pages/1542/
If your House Reps aren’t onboard, click and call!
Kieran
The Democrats have until November 1 to show me it’s worthwhile having Democrats in political power. If they haven’t even been able to do away with that disgraceful DADT policy in TWO YEARS then I will “try” to vote Democratic on election day—but I can’t promise anything.
Brian NYC
@Michael in Maine: You said: As I understand it, when you call Congress the people who answer the phone keep tallies of how many people are for and against each issue. How can it hurt to let your Congresspeople know what your position is? It might not make a difference, but it might.”
It is not reliable and it doesn’t work. Politicians pay for and react based on polling data – polling data reflecting the views of their constituents (voters). Their primary concern is getting re-elected.
If people have the time to make calls or have conversations, talk to your friends, co-workers and neighbors. There IS evidence that helps.
Rich
Talking to my friends, co-workers, and neighbors will help eliminate a federal policy of discrimination against gays and lesbians in the military? How exactly is this picket fence campaign going to get a federal law repealed and replaced with a policy of non-discrimination?
Brian NYC
@Rich: By asking your friends, co-workers and neighbors to support our full equality. It will show up in polling data and then the politicians votes will change in our favor.
It is much more effective than wasting time and money on politics. We already know (+50 years) that doesn’t work.
Rich
Based on the last significant national poll on the subject, my friends, co-workers, and neighbors already voiced their support for DADT repeal. They were in favor by a large margin.
I can understand your resignation from the political process, though. You already have a good number of rights. You are allowed to publicly say that you are gay. Your co-workers probably know that you are gay. You might work for a company that provides same-sex partner benefits. Your neighbors probably know that you are gay. You can go out on a date without arousing suspicion or risking your employment. You have free speech.
Full equality to you means something entirely different from that of a servicemember. They have zero equality. They aren’t allowed to acknowledge their existence. Their freedom of speech is completely abridged. What friends, co-workers, and neighbors should a gay or lesbian servicemember talk to without arousing suspicion that will lead to their eventual firing? While you wait for the poll numbers to get to 100% in Alabama and Louisiana, another gay or lesbian servicemember risks death in Iraq or Afghanistan. When they die in action, their same-sex partners won’t get phone call, won’t get a flag, and will be completely shunned by the military establishment. 70% of the American people say this is wrong, but we’re worried about voters in a handful of states to change their mind?
Michael in Maine
Rich and Brian – why not just do both?
Rich
@Michael: Exactly.
Brian NYC
@Michael in Maine: That’s exactly what I mean with this false hope of “calling politicians” and expecting some favorable result. Anti-LGBT politicians don’t change their minds because of phone calls. But, the Service Members Legal Defense Network wastes our money with these ineffective efforts. Gay Inc. is full of these fake campaigns that simply never yield results. They may make people feel like it helps, but there is NO evidence that it does.
If it was as simple as making a bunch of phone calls or writing a bunch of emails – we would put all our resources there and actually win this battle. The truth is it’s a complete waste of time. But, our LGBT non-profits want to create the appearance that they’re making a difference. They’re not.
Brian NYC
@Rich: Your National Poll doesn’t matter to politicians. And nobody suggested:
While you wait for the poll numbers to get to 100% in Alabama and Louisiana, another gay or lesbian servicemember risks death in Iraq or Afghanistan. When they die in action, their same-sex partners won’t get phone call, won’t get a flag, and will be completely shunned by the military establishment. 70% of the American people say this is wrong, but we’re worried about voters in a handful of states to change their mind?
The ONLY way to change votes is to change minds – the minds of the politicians constituents. It doesn’t need to be 100%, but it needs to be a majority. That is the reality. By creating the false hope that contacting politicians matters – and NOT taking your message to the people, YOU are allowing DADT to continue.
We won’t win this fight until we recognize what works and what doesn’t work. Enrolling our fellow citizens works and it is something we can ALL do. Changing minds is the only change we can believe in.
reason
I agree with Michael in Maine these things are not mutually exclusive, yall are presenting a false choice; it is like asking some one to choose between having a gas pedal and a brake pedal in their vehicle. No gas pedal your not going anywhere, no brake pedal your going to the after life; you need both, they are complementary as has been proven in past civil rights struggles. I don’t consider giving cash to gay inc.,sure it my serve some purpose, direct lobbying granted that the legislators don’t know who the hell gay inc. is representing, are there 200,000 members San Francisco values people from California? Similar to have 10,000 people perched on the grass in Washington, it’s like who the hell are these people did they fly in from Canada? If gay inc. wanted to be more effective they would be organized in every single legislative district to hither, thither and yon rather than having comfortably blissful fat-cats dawdling through the capitol drunk of the pungency of the corridors of power. Legislators need to hear directly from their constituents, receive letters from their district, have meetings with their people, and hear from various business interest in their communities; concurrently there needs to be outreach to the citizens of the community expressing who you are and why they should support you. Positive interactions with people in the community is the tool to reduce hate, politics helps bridge the gap between people.
Rich
@Brian NYC: Who is in charge of your citizen organization effort? Is there a website? Where do people go for information and resources to help in this non-political effort? What are the official polls we need to be considering to detemine if we’re making enough progress? If national polls aren’t sufficient, what polls are? Who is going to contact the friends, neighbors, and co-workers of our active duty military since they aren’t in a position to do it themselves? Do you live in a military community with lots of active duty friends, neighbors, and co-workers? Who is changing the minds of the folks inside the Pentagon?
Lukas P.
@Sam: Thanks. I guess I was looking for something slightly more concrete than
“take the case to the people.” BrianNYC in later posts starts making some more concrete suggestions, so at least he’s starting to engage in a discussion on the internet, rather than repeating the same phrases.
Public action can work. Saul Alinksky’s book “Rules for Radicals” may be dated but it’s full of ideas on direct action. You can get it for a buck at a used bookshop. BrianNYC ideas from that book may help you to WIN WIN WIN
Brian NYC
@Rich: Everything you’ve mentioned is not currently part of the LGBT Movement. Perhaps, it should be.
Brian NYC
@reason: I appreciate your reasoning, but i would really like to see some evidence that lobbying or calling, emailing or even visiting a politician actually works.
They live by their constituent polling. In fact, if they ignore their polling and show some actual compassion and courage, they don’t last long. All of our politicians are about getting re-elected.
If people want to make calls or visits – do it your town, your neighborhood. That will make a difference.
Steve
@Rowen: “if every single gay man and woman gets pissed and doesn’t vote for Obama, guess who wins. . . the Republicans.”
That’s the point. The Democrats have been taking gays for granted for 40 years. We have given them money and votes, constantly, for 40 years. They have done NOTHING for us. Promises before the election, but NOTHING after the election, for 40 years. We were part of the “base”, but not a big enough part of it to get any actual attention.
Political power takes two forms. If you have enough money and votes, you can simply overwhelm the opposition. But, there is a second form of power. “He who has the ability to destroy something can control it.” If we swing even one or two percent away from the Democrats, it can “spoil” at least some elections, and they know it.
The entire reason why Obama and some other Democrats have started paying any attention at all to gay issues is, because gays have started to move away from the Democrats. The money and votes that they took for granted for 40 years is threatening to go away, and they are beginning to panic.
If the Republicans win some elections because the Democrat in that race didn’t have gay support, it would be a real wake-up call for the other Democrats.
Who knows, they might actually do something for us, after 40 years of nothing. I will believe it when I see it.
Robert, NYC
Steve, I totally concur. Many of us have been writing to our representatives as well as the DNC telling them that they can no longer take our votes or financial support for granted. The way to get their attention is to deliver an ultimatum, ergo..deliver the goods or else face the consequences. No votes, no financial support unless equality bills are passed, starting with ENDA and repeal of DADT before 2012. You’re right, they’re panicking for sure, but they’ll panick even more as more of us retaliate against them. This time we have to mean it.
Victor
@Steve: @Robert, NYC:
I completely understand the anger but the Democrats don’t have the votes to pass anything LGBT in the US Senate. We can threaten them all we want, but the just don’t have the votes.
Rich
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the anger. And what’s with the hyperbolic garbage about “40 years of nothing!” Bullshit.
Would you have a transgendered person serving in the executive branch (or any branch of the government for that matter) 40 years ago? 20 years ago? 10 years ago? Would you have LGBT persons included in hate crimes legislation 40 years ago? 20 years ago? 10 years ago? Would you have any acknowledgment of LGBT issues in a President’s national SOTU address 40 years ago? 20 years ago? Would there even be legislation in Congress on LGBT issues 40 years ago?
The answer to all of these questions is no. Yet, we have a group of so-called LGBT rights supporters who are willing to walk away from the political process and set legislative progress in the gay rights movement back another decade just because they aren’t seeing the kind of movement or priorities set on their pet issue.
I am as frustrated as the next person, and I fully support withholding of donations from LGBT political organizations to send a message. But I can’t support complete withdrawal from the political process — not when we are this close ona number of issues. We have legislation in the House to end DADT. We have legislation in the House on ENDA. We have broad national support for this legislation and Democratic majorities in both chambers of government. We have a President who would sign legislation if it ever made it to his desk. Now is not the time to walk away from the table. There are 10 months left before mid-terms. After that, you can give up on any progress for at least another 2 years and probably longer than that because conservatives are likely to regain control if the anti-incumbent sentiment doesn’t end soon. Now is the time to be vocal, loud, and obnoxious. Stop lobbying with your dollars, but don’t stop lobbying with your voice.
Also, stop being so damn selfish. I know that the number one equality issue for most gay and lesbian activists is marriage equality. Guess what? There is a class of gay and lesbian citizens who aren’t even allowed to say they’re gay. Marriage doesn’t even register on the list of possibilities for someone that isn’t even allowed to acknowledge they’re gay as a matter of federal law. We are still dealing with some very fundamental discrimination that is 1,000 times worse than not being able to walk down the aisle. Repeal of DADT ends that fundamental discrimination. The issue is on the table. The President introduced it to the nation as a priority for 2010. So, what are we going to do? Take our ball, leave the court, and go home? Or challenge our leaders to live up to the rhetoric and promises for a change? If you take your ball and go home, don’t expect to be asked back to play the game for a long time.
Victor
@Rich: I agree with Rich. If we ALL lobby the Democrats they’ll do what we want. If you usually send 5 emails to your Senator, you need to send 40 or 50 (just keep hitting “send”). If you call a few times, please call 100 times (just keep hitting “redial”).
If they get enough emails and calls they will do what we want. We should have been doing this all along. Tomorrow I’m making 100 calls and sending 500 emails. Won’t you join me?
I can feel the energy. This is our time. Lobby. Lobby. Lobby.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
……because we’re always in the gutter looking at the stars!
Victor
@dontblamemeivotedforhillary: We can win if you call and send emails. That’s how it works. If it doesn’t we’ll get Hillary back – she has balls.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
No. 70 · Victor
@dontblamemeivotedforhillary: We can win if you call and send emails. That’s how it works. If it doesn’t we’ll get Hillary back – she has balls.
LOL! I’ll type a letter now because you said so! I’m soooo sure that they will change their minds…but I’ll vote Green Party until then!
reason
@Rich:
I agree, but spend your dollars on elections and in the economy, country needs it.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary: Is this going to be your mantra till 2016 when Secretary Clinton is 69. You seem to know very little about the Clinton’s after their fingers were burned in the 90’s by gays they will never let it happen again, there political strategy is triangulation and poll tested incrementation landing gay rights on their back burner if even there if they were in power. Plus they would not only be in battle with the republicans, but gridlocked with their own party granted that the thought of Hillary gave most in the Democratic establishment heart burn. The senators begged Obama after he became president elect to take her out of the senate. Her skills have already been tested in her previous health care battle and democrats on the hill rejected her with out the republicans lifting a finger, leaving everyone with a sour taste in their mouths. Bill Richardson and Al Gore refused to endorse her because they have seen her in action. As much personal respect as I have for the Clinton and the political adroitness of Bill, Hillary just was a non starter. She is right were she needs to be, and can be most affective. Although I will assume that I am talking to the wind here, if you said republicans that would be one thing but your confession to vote for the Green Party means our world view will never align.
MickW
You people really are ridiculous, still talking about Hillary Clinton – that ship has passed, move on with your lives!
Victor
I’ve already made 50 calls. I am about to send 100 emails to US Senators. Last night I stayed up late and did the math:
As best I can tell, if each Senator got 100,000 calls and emails every day – it would only take us 6 months to change their minds/votes. So, we need 1 million people sending dozens of emails and making calls every day. They will add up fast. The Senators will think millions of people are lobbying them.
I’m a citizen-lobbyist and I hope to work in DC after college.