There he goes again. Perez Hilton, the loud-mouthed self-styled “Queen of All Media” knows how to make a scene and for the most part, we just try to pretend that he doesn’t exist. Full disclosure: Your editor was a college-pal of Mario Lavandeira, Perez’s real-life persona. But there he was, last week, asking Miss California what she thought of gay marriage and true to form, he’s milked the moment for all its worth, doing interviews on MTV, Fox and calling Carrie Prejean a “bitch” and “the c-word”. So, are Perez’s attacks on Prejean helping or hurting the cause of gay rights?
Here’s a hint: Carrie Prejean was given a heroes welcome at San Diego megachurch The Rock this Sunday. The AP writes:
“The San Diego Christian College junior, model and member of the San Diego Padres “Pad Squad” received a heroine’s welcome from fellow members of the Rock, where she was the guest of honor at morning services. Seated onstage across from McPherson, she recalled resisting multiple opportunities — from her appearance on NBC’s “Today” show to a performance with Miss USA pageant owner Donald Trump — to edit, explain or expound upon her remarks.
“I knew I had to stay true to my beliefs and not let them intimidate me into taking back what I said because I don’t take back what I said,” she said.”
In fact, if you are a social conservative frustrated by the advance of gay rights in the past few months, you’re probably thanking Perez right now. In singling out Prejean, Perez chose a beautiful, all-American (by definition!) girl who has the whole “I care about gay people, but I am entitled to my opinions” shtick down. Perez may have wanted to make her into a poster child for homophobia, but instead, he’s transformed her into a doe-eyed Anita Bryant, in the worst sense of the term.
Furthermore, does anyone think that Perez’s name-calling is actually in the service of gay rights? In 2006, I wrote a story for Salon about Perez’s tactics of forcibly outing people (mainly by drawing cum stains on their photos) and argued that “Spreading gossip is just your average pedestrian variety of immorality. Claiming that you’re doing it to further civil rights is an outright sham.”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
And here’s where the quandary with Perez’s latest foray into the realm of gay crusader lies. It’s not that he’s genuinely interested in helping out gays and lesbians, it’s that he’s looking for attention. Sometimes, his talent for drawing the spotlight onto him actually does some good. I think the question he posed to Prejean was a good one, but the subsequent ‘angry gay man’ routine he’s been doing since then may have spiked his site’s traffic, but it’s only served to hurt the cause of equality.
Watch Carrie Prejean say she’ll pray for Perez:
This is sort of a muddy pool to wade into. After all, on one hand you have someone like Perez Hilton, who when not acting like every horrible gay stereotype imaginable, is screaming at the top of his lungs in self-righteous fury. On the other, you have HRC’s Joe Solomonese, who is so tepid in his defense of gay rights you have to strain to hear any sense of moral outrage as he debates anti-gay activists. Surely, there must be some happy medium, right? In bringing up the gay rights question at the Miss USA pageant, Perez was putting our issues in the public spotlight, but naturally, he made it all about him and in doing so, actually lost the battle he was trying to wage. In calling Prejean a “bitch” and making her out to be evil as opposed to ignorant, he only reconfirmed the anxiety of many straight people that anyone who disagrees with gays and lesbians will be treated as less than human.
Surely, we can do better than this. There has to be a way to have a civil conversation about civil rights. This doesn’t mean that we can’t say to someone like Miss California, “We’re not denying you your religious beliefs, but you can’t impose them on our civil, nonreligious rights.” This doesn’t mean that we can’t make a moral argument for equality. In fact, we should, but how does demonizing beauty pageant contestants get you any closer to changing hearts and minds?
It’s strange that for someone who prides himself so much on exposing celebrity image and media manipulation, that when it comes to himself, Perez can’t control his own image. Anyone should be free to say and do what they want, but we put it to Perez: If you believe that gay celebrities have a duty to come out of the closet to advance gay rights, don’t you have a duty, if you’re going to use LGBT rights to get you free press, actually do something positive for those rights you’re screaming so loudly about?
— Japhy Grant
Mickey's mouse :P
Hilton is a oozy crusty sore on the gay community’s ass…He needs to tone down his shit, because he turns people off from our cause. I agree that we should be aggressive in getting our message for equality out, but we also need to learn to back off. Sometimes being too in your face, like lavandeira, scares people. We’re not all screaming queens, but he’s the loudest voice, unfortunately….
jason
I like Perez. He’s exactly the type of person we need. Too many gays – especially those in the media – are too afraid to challenge homophobia in the mainstream. They’re far too content to snipe from the sidelines instead of going out there into the thick of it as Perez does.
Perez is America’s “Bruno” as played by Sascha Baron Cohen in his upcoming movie of the same name. Like Sascha’s Bruno, Perez exposes the homophobia of ordinary folk, including these supposedly benign beauty queens.
jason
Maybe we should point out Carrie Prejean’s hypocrisy. She claims to be a Christian yet poses in a bikini on a stage in front of married men. She’s sending out a poor message to women by using her sexuality as a marketing ploy.
Drumhellian
Personally I find Perez comments to be very Immature and always a bad reflection on the gay community as a whole. If you ever read the comments on his posts you would see more negative comments then positive.
And majority of these comments are targeted at his sexuality not his so called journalism.
Robert, NYC
@jason:
Jason, she is purported to be a “bible” student. If that’s the case, then I can assume she believes in the what the bible says. In any event, living by that book of fairy tales would prohibit her from entering a beauty pageant…vanity is a sin in the bible and flaunting one’s flesh in a skimpy swimsuit would be strictly forbidden. She’s a hypocrite of the worst kind. They want it both ways as the rest of her ilk do.
Phil
Great article and I completely agree with most of your points. I personally can’t stand Perez Hilton or the gossip he peddles and think he completely misuses his platform and considerable audience for his own fame. I think his question to her was fair and I also think her response was fair and it all could have been used to further our cause but he has completely gone the wrong way about it and I think he is all the more ignorant and unintelligent for it.
ggreen
Let me get this straight, You are saying Carrie Prejean is entitled to her opinions but Perez Hilton is not. Also Carrie Prejean being welcomed like a rock star by a bunch of like-minded bigots is some huge social statement, while Hilton is just a loud mouth for speaking the truth.
Rasa
Thanks for your well written– clear and cogent– editorial. I’m in agreement with you. Plus, “leadership” is such an important issue for the GLBT community— for this entire world, these days. We do need leaders who will be strong supporters of human rights, while also taking a stand for them in ways that reflect the stance of the “spiritual warrior”– i.e. demonstrating basic values of respect for all, even when challenged at times by the lack thereof.
Ultimately, taking the “high ground” helped us get a new thinking/new acting president in this country. That “high ground” can help us here, too– as we continue to deal with GLBT and human rights issues. (“High ground” does NOT mean “passive doormat”. It can be strong and forthright, in addition to being respectful.)
Thanks again for your voice on these issues.
Jeff
Well if other Gay (for lack of a better word) “journalist”, “celebrites”, “writers”, “actors”, “television stars” would be more OUT then there would be less focus on Ms. Hilton.
Topher
@jason: I totally agree with Jason. While I am not always pleased with the words Perez uses to describes others, who else has a near gravitational pull of media attention around him? He took a minor blip, that would barely register in mainstream media, and controlled the conversation across nearly every platform of major media to articulate that homophobia is an opinion and civil injustice against gays/lesbians is no longer socially acceptable. I may disagree with this process, I completely agree with Perez’s purposes and outcomes.
Jon
Hilton brings us all down and makes us look like a bunch of bitter bitchy adolescents… No good can come from pandering to the lowest common demoninator. He makes us look bad.
Michael
There is a happy medium. His name is Dan Savage.
AlwaysGay
Carrie would be welcomed very well if Perez said nothing later. Anti-gay bigotry is omnipresent.
Sean
This is a great post, but I think it raises a larger question that the gay community will have to grapple with in the coming years: how do we move out of our “cutesy and fabulous” archetype in order to be taken more seriously? I really believe that much of the shock around Perez here is that he is taking a [violently] political standpoint when he’s just supposed to be the flippant and flamboyant gay man. Can we be both, or do we have to take sides? We do not have much of a presence in the intellectual community, and as we develop this voice I think that battle will come out in full force.
InExile
Between the quiet, timid, low key Joe Salmonese and the loud in your face Perez Hilton, I prefer Perez. Perez seems to get his message across while Joe does not seem to make any impact. We need to be in the news so our issues are discussed, the result is the public is being educated and hearing our side. I do hope he watches his language next time but in a time where the mainstream media and cable news rarely discusses our issues, we cannot afford to pick and choose our spokespeople. We are lucky we have any at all.
Chitown Kev
@InExile:
Agreed.
Jake
You make a really good point here. Frankly, I think that we, as a community, find ourselves often perpetuating the very stereotypes that out enemies use against us. As the same time, it is terribly important that we don’t tone down who we are and give in to the preconceived ideas of what a “normal” person sounds or looks like. I have no problem with the fact that Perez is a big mouthed, loud, not terribly articulate, poorly dressed, drama queen. I have several gay friends who fit that mold nicely… I guess in my heart of hearts, I just wish he wouldn’t declare himself the representative of the gay community. He doesn’t really represent me or what I am about at all.
Anthony in Nashville
People like Perez Hilton (i.e., “celebrities” with no real talent beyond gossiping or generating publicity) have their audience but should not be considered spokesmen of the LGBT community.
Why would someone take Perez seriously?
I think he was on that pageant to set Miss California up. Of course, she fell for it, so that’s on her, but let’s not act like Perez had a legit reason for being on that program.
Topher
What really frustrates me about this whole conversation is that we, as politically minded gays and lesbians, feel we need to take the moral high road when it comes to confrontation.
Why should Perez be quiet? Why should he not publicly express his outrage? The woman flaunted her bigotry to him and the world, on international television.
I respect the history that has come before us, but in the 60 years since the Mattachine society was founded and they quietly marched in suits and dresses trying to show the normalcy of being a homophile, I haven’t seen much come of these efforts.
Stonewall, it was messy and public and probably inappropriate, but it moved the conversation and gay rights movement forward. Similarly, the work to elect Harvey Milk was not quiet or peaceful. Maybe we have to be outraged that we can be treated this way with no consequence. Maybe we should show society that being a bigot is not going to be tolerated. Maybe it is our tacit approach to public representation that has hindered the very progress we are trying to advance.
red phone
Saw Perez Hilton on CNN this weekend. He does come off as a shrill teenager, but I do think he’s acting sincerely. Does he enjoy the publicity he gets out of it? Of course. But why must publicity and good intentions be mutually exclusive?
He may not be that bright, but he has sparked a legitimate national dialogue, which is quite an accomplishment. Has Queerty ever done that?
Jake
@Topher:
While I agree completely that we should be outraged and public about bigotry… I just think that Perez is a particularly poor mouthpiece for our cause. I think he makes gays look abnormal. I am not less of a gay person because I don’t talk with a lisp or wear ridiculous clothes. I am not less of a gay person because I served my country in Iraq and it is not plainly obvious to anyone within 100 mile radius of me that I like guys.
Frankly, and at the risk of being thoroughly ostracized from this forum, I think that ridiculous, over the top behavior is detrimental to our cause. It is detrimental in the same way that 50 Cent does far less for the black race than Obama or Martin Luther King. Many people disliked them for “being too white”, but in the end their affect has been much greater than others less mainstream. The same is true with us homos.
audrina
UUUUUUUH, I CAN’T STAND THAT MAN! HE JUST RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY, AND NOW HE HAS REALLY GIVEN ME GOOD REASON TO FEEL THAT WAY.
steve1
Perez to gays is like flavor flav or OJ to black folk.
Tim in SF
I think the question he posed to Prejean was a good one, but the subsequent ‘angry gay man’ routine he’s been doing since then may have spiked his site’s traffic, but it’s only served to hurt the cause of equality.
Prove it.
I don’t like Perez either – I prefer our spokesmen to be easy on the eyes or smart or noble. On the other hand, I have no problem with calling a cunt a cunt. He called her out and I’m personally glad he did. San Diego sorority cunts like this blonde bitch need to be publicly challened on a regular basis until they learn, or at least learn to shut up.
And who the fuck cares if she comes home to a standing ovation by her CHURCH? It’s a fucking SAN DIEGO CHURCH. It’s conservative times conservative.
mikeC
@steve1: Haaaaaaaaaa! .Funny but true. As a gay black person, Flava flav and most rappers annoy me almost as much as miss Perez Hilton.
Gurlene
@Robert, NYC: Thank you Robert. I too thought it strange a bible thumper in a beauty contest but after so many years in the big apple nothing shocks me at all.
steve
PEREZ HILTON FUCKED UP! PERIOD. AND HE SOUNDS LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL GIRL. HE NEEDS TO MAN IT UP, LEARN HOW TO TAKE A HIT(LIKE THE ONE FROM MISS CA) WITHOUT THROWING BACK SOFT ANNOYING PUNCHES. HE IS INFACT THE C*NT.
Kamikapse
I hate this stupid notion that every obnoxious / stupid gay person in the public is “a problem for us”
We should get to a point where we can agree that gay people can be as good / bad / annoying as everyone else.
I dont care about Perez… but he speaks for no one but himself and that’s OK.
If you wanna write an article on why Perez is an asshole – go for it, I will probably agree.
But I refuse to agree that the only gay people who are allowed to open their mouth in public are the unoffensive and straight acting ones.
Donsnyc
Perez is a boil in the ass of humanity. Unfortunately for us, he is gay and very high profile.
bobito
@jjj: that is the stereotypical homophobic response to any gay man who says or does something the homophobe doesn’t approve of, much in the same way Perez Hilton calling the pretty blond girl a bitch and a cunt is stereotypical queeny indignation. Neither is very productive, in the big picture, but we all really need to stop wishing that people will die of AIDS, too many people are already doing that without anyone having to wish for more.
osocubano
Yes, he’s a problem.
He needs to decide if he’s going to be a gossip columnist or a gay spokesperson.
Doing both is not a good idea.
Lance Rockland
CNSNews.com
Perez Hilton: The Foul Face of ‘Gay’ Activism
Friday, April 24, 2009
By J. Matt Barber
Warning: This article contains graphic but accurate material that may be offensive to some readers.
You may have heard. During Sunday’s Miss USA pageant openly “gay” activist and pageant judge Perez Hilton – the self-styled “Queen of Media” – ambushed Carrie Prejean – the openly Christian Miss California – with a politically loaded question on so-called “same-sex marriage.” Prejean’s candid answer – as both Hilton and Miss USA organizer Donald Trump later admitted – likely cost her the crown.
>From the moment she opened her mouth, Prejean has given liberals a clinic in class. Hilton, on the other hand (a.k.a. Mario Armando Lavandeira), has provided the world a sneak peek into the soul of homosexual activism.
This is one for the up-is-down-black-is-white hall of fame. The media’s fabricated flap over Prejean’s answer – a public defense of legitimate marriage – has a reasonable America scratching its collective noggin in stunned disbelief. Not because of the answer she gave Perez – which was both well received by the pageant audience and overwhelmingly shared by about 70 percent of Americans – but, rather, because of Hilton’s hate-filled, misogynistic response to her answer and the disgraceful, knee-jerk defense of that response by liberals in Hollywood, the media and organized homosexuality.
After Hilton asked the lovely and talented Miss California whether “every state” should legalize “same-sex marriage,” Prejean responded: “In my country, in my family … I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be – between a man and a woman.”
Oh the humanity!
Evidently this was not the rooty-tooty-fresh-n’-fruity answer Hilton – the creepy valley girl wannabe with a five o’clock shadow – had hoped for. He promptly marked Prejean’s score card with a zero, plopped down in front of the television cameras and began blubbering away like a fussy little snot with a dirty diaper.
Having already publicly called Prejean a “dumb b—-,” he then yammered to a sympathetic Norah O’Donnell on MSNBC that, not only was he refusing to apologize, he was actually “thinking the C-word.” This, of course, one of the vilest things anyone can call a woman. Yet, rather than taking Hilton to task for the boy lover’s girl-hating poison, O’Donnell joined in on the bash-fest, criticizing Prejean for her traditional view.
But Hilton wasn’t done yet. Ramping up his vicious attack on the Christian California bombshell, our lispy-wispy lil’ cupcake dove headlong into the annals of dirt-baggery lore. He defaced a photo of Prejean on his weblog scribbling, below her chin, a crude depiction of a male phallus ejaculating in her mouth.
How did Prejean react?
While talking to Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today Show she said, “I knew at that moment after I answered the question, I knew, I was not going to win because of my answer, because I had spoken from my heart, from my beliefs and for my God. … I wouldn’t have answered it differently. The way I answered may have been offensive. With that question specifically, it’s not about being politically correct. For me it was being biblically correct.”
On the Fox News Channel’s Hannity program, Prejean shared, “You know, I forgive him. I know that he’s angry for whatever reason. I know there must be a bigger issue going on in his life.”
Like I said – Class.
Still, Perez Hilton – Hollywood’s frothy-potty-mouthed little drama queen – isn’t alone in his hatred for Prejean or the three-fourths of Americans who share her opposition to the novel and incongruous concept of “gay marriage.”
For example, Wayne Besen, a prominent leader in the homosexual activist community, unbelievably went on Fox News’ O’Reilly Factor to defend Hilton. He picked up Hilton’s anti-Christian torch, incredibly charging that it was Prejean, not Hilton, whose millennia old recognition of biblical marriage “was divisive.” Besen then added insult to injury and revealed his true rainbow colors by tagging the 70 percent of Americans who oppose “gay marriage” as “bigots.”
This whole hateful affair provides the perfect metaphor for the current divide between defenders of traditional sexual morality and the extremist “queer” activist movement. As Congress debates the constructive repeal of both the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of “equal protection under the law” and the First Amendment guarantees of free speech and freedom of religion through passage of discriminatory and wholly unnecessary “hate crimes” legislation, this little episode once again reminds us that the self-described champions of “tolerance” and “diversity” are the most intolerant and hateful among us.
How soon we forget. Just hearken back a few months to the passage of California’s Proposition 8, which restored the definition of natural marriage to the Golden State. There we all played witness to “gay” activist calls for church burnings, Mormon Temple vandalism, death threats against Prop 8 supporters and quasi-riotous assaults against peaceful Christian marriage supporters.
So, insofar as liberals continue to dig their own hole by defending Hilton and piling on Prejean, I submit they’re doing the other 70 percent of us a favor. In their biting anger, they’ve cast aside the sublime mask of “tolerance,” revealing an ugly, desperate and most intolerant countenance below.
For that, I say thank you. For your treatment of Carrie Prejean, I say shame on you.
Matt Barber is Director of Cultural Affairs with both Liberty Counsel and Liberty Alliance Action. He also co-hosts the nationally syndicated “Liberty Live” talk radio program on AFR Talk. Send comments to Matt at [email protected].
Phil
@Donsnyc: Exactly. Sadly.
Dabq
Si, oui, yes and all the rest, he is loud, uncouth and with this loud, shrill over the top antic rally needs to sit down and be quiet, although, I’m sure he won’t and that will allow the hate mongers to justify thier hate.
Alec
@osocubano: He’s obviously a gossip columnist, and for that reason alone people should be wary of him appearing on Larry King to debate the issue.
I second the poster who recommended Dan Savage.
michael
i do not like his caddy ways it is a bad reflection on gays in the main stream . not all of us are that way or want to project . time for a better rep for us
just saw that movie another gay movie sequal >>>. what a bunch of nasty stereo type gay BS no wonder we are hated .( perez was in it ) like a bad clown
Hannah
Perez Hilton is a spokesperson for gay people? His sexist remarks (I hate the “c-word”) don’t speak for this lesbian.
I liked him when he was on CNN, talking about marriage equality. Give him something productive to do and I think he would be better for our cause. He took her comment way too personally, and shouldn’t have asked it if he wasn’t going to like an answer like hers.
When he speaks respectfully, then I’ll refer his comments to people when discussing equality. Our spokespeople should be as diverse as our community, but respectful to make our opponents in public debates look like the only ignorant ones speaking.
The Gay Numbers
1) Perez Hilton is a celebrity gossip. To make this about him demonstrates how clueless we are. Why are gays so damn weak?
2) It does not matter whether it is Perez Hilton or not because the bigots are still going to hate you.
3) You are not going to find some magic way to over come bigotry through the right spokesman. What the right spokesperson can do is to ignite the emotions necessary to winning battles and wars. We do not have that leadership right now. Mostly, because gays are so weak.
4) Why do so many of you seek the approval of those who oppress you? I have my theories. But I would like to have an answer from you rather than my own theories.
wsc1986
perez hilton needs to just shut up. he is a whiny, bitchy little queen who is constantly trying to be the center of attention. he didn’t do what he did for the sake of gay rights, he did it for himself.
The Gay Numbers
PS Dan Savage is also a horrible choice. He’s a sex columnist. Not someone trained in how to approach debates emotionally or challenge arguments logically. Both are needed. I have listened to him. He appeals to white upper class gay men. That’s not the audience that needs convincing. We need a Martin Luther King or some other similar politically gifted figure if you want the right spokesperson. Yes, I know this is a one in a generation type of person. But that’s sort of the point. Gays are lacking any kind of inspirational transformative leadership. We must have workman type professionals or people who make us laugh as leadership. Neither of which is useful.
Nickadoo1970
@Lance Rockland: Oh, that scamp, Matt Barber and his obsession with all things gay. Amazingly, he doesn’t recognize the irony in holding up dear Miss California as a paragon of class, while simultaneously hurling such insults as:
“creepy valley girl wannabe with a five o’clock shadow”
“fussy little snot with a dirty diaper”
“lispy-wispy lil’ cupcake”
“frothy-potty-mouthed little drama queen”
You stay classy, Mr. Barber.
Matthew Rettenmund
I blogged about this here: http://boyculture.typepad.com/boy_culture/2009/04/harvey-milking-it.html
But seriously, the tone of this article is so grotesque. It’s all about how he’s not the RIGHT kind of gay person to be representing us. Because he’s too effeminate or loud or – gasp – too lowbrow? Gay people need to take help where they can get it.
The assumption that Perez never does anything for gay rights is a joke. He posts pro-gay items every day on his blog. His existence is a pro-gay item! His site is beloved by the younger people of whome 70% or so are pro-gay marriage.
Anyone who hates him for being gay would hate him for being gay even if he were conservative-looking and polite…don’t you get that?
And that is the take-away from his run-in with Miss California. Polite counts for nothing in this world.
So what if the very polite, very Biblically bigoted Ms. Prejean was given a hero’s welcome by some kooky church that exists far to the right of most of the country (and if not, then certainly FAR to the right of where this country is heading)? Don’t be so scared.
Perez is not perfect, but he gets a lot right, and he’s a hell of a lot more proactive on gay causes than 99% of all the gay (openly and not) people in Hollywood.
Captain Freedom
I completely believe Perez Hilton is a major problem for gay Americans everywhere. He is to gays what Al Sharpton is to blacks. He is only setting us back many years.
He speaks for us on TV but only makes us look shallow. This is considering the fact he’s always sneaking into Britney’s personal life and releasing rumors of who hooked up with who. He’s very ugly too!
I think we should take Perez Hilton and offer him a one-way permanent vacation to the Azores. Just send him there, not even let him know he’s going. Take his computer too so he can’t attack us through his utterly annoying blog.
Alec
@The Gay Numbers: It depends on the audience. I think Savage’s books, The Kid and The Commitment, are good for some audiences. But obviously, he’s not equipped to debate the merits of a court decision.
I think that there are decent advocates out there, but you’re right, no one who is very prominent.
BTW, whites still need convincing. The opposition remains overwhelmingly white, religious, male and older.
Brian Miller
I suspect the reason he jumped into the fray in the first place is because of the wimpy, tepid, lukewarm, lifeless “activism” that characterized the entire debate in California.
The fact he’s being described as a “lispy, wispy cupcake” by right-wing hate media shows how much attention he got.
Basically, the complaint about Perez is over his style, the fact that he’s being an “uppity queer,” and the fact that he’s not a focus-group-tested “straight-acting” guy.
Well thank Goddess for that! Finally, someone is moving the debate forward and taking it to the streets and airwaves, rather than relying on some “unfair and wrong” campaign that sounds like something a second grade teacher came up with.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers:
2) It does not matter whether it is Perez Hilton or not because the bigots are still going to hate you.
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!
The whole “gays are church-going, suit-wearing everyday white upper-middle-class people just like you” schtick has never been successful.
The people who advance civil rights movements are always “uncomfortable” and “nonconformist.” The suffragettes chained themselves to buildings, rather than quietly beg for the vote. African American civil rights activists thundered from the podium, marched and boycotted.
And Perez took on a silly rich white San Diego girl — who promptly tried to play “victim.” Good for him.
One thing is certain — all the people advancing the notion he’s “too lispy” or “not the right guy” have achieved literally nothing in California so far, other than losing the Prop 8 fight there.
And someone needs to be confrontational against bigots. Good for him.
Finally, no, they aren’t going to love you or believe you’re “respectable” just because you play the game. They’re still going to see you as a lispy-wispy cupcake with a five-o-clock shadow. They hate who you are and what you are, not how you dress or talk. Sheesh. Stop giving in to homophobia by conceding the idea that he doesn’t have a right to speak up. He does, and he should.
California tried the “muted, respectable, pleading mainstream person who happens to be queer” approach and failed miserably BECAUSE of it, not in spite of it.
The Gay Numbers
Alec
My main point is that we have no transformative inspirational leadership.
There’s a difference between biography and having the ability to make people to aspire to be more. What the gay movement lacks is someone who appeals to the emotional.
Politics and culture do not come down to the cerebral. Ultimately it’s about emotions. This is true regardless of race, gender or whatever else we like to label things. If you can control emotions, you control and manipulate perspective. This is why Dan Savage is inadequate for the job. It’s also why I do not understand most of the morons posting along this thread either hating on Perez Hilton or acting like he’s a great choice. Both are wrong because Hilton like most of the gay “spokespeople” are irrelevant. They have no impact at all.
It’s not just the type of leadership that’s going to be inspirational by the way. It’s the type that’s going to know how to manipulate frame. When you know that the other side is about to lie keep framing them as liars. We need our Karl Roves too. Without a gay Karl Rove we will never learn how to manipulate narrative rather than be victims of it.
Those two things- inspirational, transformative leadership and Karl Rove type Machivellian strategists are the principle limitations that we have in politics.
CINDY
Perez Perez Perez. Don’t pick up cat fights with girls prettier than you……….. You are bound to loose, LIKE YOU JUST DID. YOU SEXIST PIG! You wish for a c**nt!
The Gay Numbers
Perez is irrelevant is my point. Not whether he’s lispy or not. That may be your thing, but to be quite frank- my concern is leadership that has the ability to transform debates, whoever that is. It’s not Perez and I would argue we do not have that kind of leadership right now. This is from my perspective as someone deeply interested in politics outside of just gay issues. We do not have any one who transcends.
Riandra
We shouldn’t demonize Carrie Prejean for her beliefs, and yet you compare her to Anita Bryant. Carrie Prejean doesn’t believe in gay marriage while Anita Bryant was bent on thwarting gay rights. This is a case where we shouldn’t compare apples with oranges.
I am a fan of Perez Hilton and I think he is mean in some of his remarks, but I do appreciate his commitment to calling out anti-gay behaviour. Sure, he did express outrage at the beginning, like any gay man would, but are we going to criticize someone for an emotional response?
The whole outing “issue” is to me a non-issue, because if gossip sites and the press talk about the stars’s private lives, then why should closeted stars have special treatment?
Nickadoo1970
Last Tuesday, I was in West Hollywood with a group of friends. Coincidentally, one of the friends in our group was a young lady who competed in the Miss California pageant against Ms. Prejean, so I took the opportunity to joke, “It’s such a shame you lost to that goofy whackadoodle. We wouldn’t be having this moronic circus if you were Miss California!”
We all had a laugh. We all agreed that her rambling answer was ignorant and incoherent. We also all agreed that Hilton’s vlog response was crude, uncouth, and obnoxious. Our female friend offered up the answer she would’ve given.
She also confessed that she was also raised to be very conservative and that, had she been asked the same question 2 or 3 years ago, she’s not entirely sure her answer would’ve been that much different from Prejean’s. Her position on same-sex marriage had evolved with maturity and experience.
I fear our quest to turn anyone who attempts to respectively disagree with us (however feebly) into mortal enemies may block any opportunity to engage in thoughtful, reasoned intellectual debate.
There’s no engaging the venomous hatred of the Matt Barbers, Fred Phelpses, and Maggie Gallaghers of the world. There’s nothing thoughtful, reasoned nor intellectual about them. But, like my female pageant friend, with maturity and experience many would-be adversaries can grow become our allies.
My two cents, for whatever it’s worth.
Brian Miller
By the way, all you people dissing Perez are taking the Log Cabin Republican line on this.
Rich Tafel, founder of the gay advocacy group the Log Cabin Republicans said: “I think it was a perfectly acceptable question. And though I completely disagree with her, I think her response was perfectly fine too.”
He said there was a danger of losing the “moral high ground that propelled our cause. Calling this woman an unprintable name, as Perez Hilton did, is indefensible.”
Be nice good straight-acting quiet respectable faggots, and maybe they’ll grow to love you! Don’t speak out of turn! Don’t make eye contact! Accept bigotry as a legitimate alternative viewpoint, it’s perfectly fine!
Don’t step out of line!
Alec
@The Gay Numbers: Framing is a limited device. Everyone in this debate is playing a numbers and time game. IA was strategic. VT was strategic. So were the 2004 amendments (if you don’t think so, consider the language used in many of the amendments; they weren’t targeting marriage, the primary targets, at least in MI and arguably OH and a few other places, were domestic partnership benefits and ordinances).
The same thing happened with Brown v. Board of Education; that was also the result of a long term strategy. The architect of the NAACP civil rights movement was Charles Hamilton Houston; Lambda Legal is functioning in a similar fashion today.
There doesn’t seem to be a strategy for handling state constitutional amendments. That was alluded to recently by one of the Lambda Legal folks. And I’ve been giving quite a bit of thought to that problem, because it is a unique obstacle.
But Perez Hilton is just noise. A particularly ineffective distraction.
Tim in SF
The assertion of this blog post, echoed in many comments, is how Perez Hilton is a bad representative of the gay community. This is a stupid mindset.
Perez Hilton is no more representative of the gay community than Jefferey Dalmer. Or Gore Vidal, for that matter.
Listening to you queens, one after another, insist that Hilton must sit down, shut up, be polite, or die of AIDS (nice one, that) — I guess that whole thing about the diversity symbolized by the rainbow flag is a bunch of bullshit. I always thought it was, so thanks for the confirmation.
What a bunch of fucking assimilationists.
anon
Riandra – I don’t understand how you can have a first paragraph that makes you appear clueless and then follow up with I’m a fan of Perez Hilton…. Plain & simple Carrie Prejean does not think Gays & Lesbians have the same rights as the majority. But worse, she is simply parroting the sanitized version of what the religious right preaches, not doing any of her own thinking. If she did, she would know the Bible is incredibly complex and scholars with much much much bigger minds than hers disagree on what any particular passage means. And she would know we have separation of Church & state. Yes, lots of other people don’t seem to be aware of either of these points too, but they don’t have the national stage. So, if she is going to go on countrywide TV and express her views, she has to take what comes.
For what it’s worth, Let Perez have his natural black glossy hair color and I think he’s pretty cute. He’s got nice thick eyebrows, nice nose and looks like some sexy hairy arms too….
Straight-n-narrow babe
I would have to say Perez is an ENORMOUS problem for the gay community – you have no idea how his tirade against Miss California for expressing HER OPINION, for ANSWERING HIS QUESTION has mobilized the Christian community!! Carrie Prejean has been called a modern-day Queen Esther. (That’s a story from the Bible – read it, it’s short). So, she may not have received the crown, but this whole debacle has empowered Christians. If you’re concerned for the cause, better reign in Perez and see about shortening his rhinestone leash.
rogue dandelion
I love it when queens cast the first stone- I don’t want to have to check you browser history and find a cum stained celebrity photo site.
He is somewhat of an embarrassment, but he I don’t think we should be wasting our time with him. Basically the only thing he did wrong in this situation was call her a “stupid bitch”, which I would have trouble stopping myself from saying.
Anthony in Nashville
@The Gay Numbers:
While I believe Hilton is far from a community leader, you make an excellent point in stating that homophobes don’t care who the “spokesman” is.
This probably won’t come out right, but in my opinion, oppressed people seek the approval of those who are holding them back because of psychological trauma (what Marley referred to as “mental slavery”) and self-esteem issues.
I’m curious as to your thoughts.
The Gay Numbers
If I see one more retarded posting saying that one can not believe in marriage equality and still not be a bigot, I will scream. Look- the key word is EQUALITY. When you write that one can believe in rights, but then write that they do not believe in marriage equality, you sound historically and politically ignorant about your own country. That’s what bothers me more than anything. You complete ignorance about how your own country works. Equality is at the heart of every political struggle that’s ever occured in this country whether it’s women’s rights, the black civil rights struggle or any number of other struggles.
To say that one can be anti marriage equality, and still for civil rights is absolute Orwellian l anguage. It means absolutely nothing beyond manipulating ignorance. You can not be for for rights of others, and decide that this is not a place (that goes to the heart of being gay- the idea of whom we form relationships with) and still claim to be for gay rights.
You are just being in context sophists spouting off bullshit over you own guilt about the fact that at the heart of what you are saying is inequality. I believe those posting this crap k now what they are doing. They are lying about what rights in the U.S. means. it’s a continued right wing ploy to destroy meaning and rights such that we speak with one common language as American people. I have a very good lawyer friend. She’s very conservative except on these issues.
When Prop 8 passed, she said- don’t they understand what they are doing? Don’t they understand that they are screwing with the basic infrastructure of all equality and rights in this country? She understands what you don’t. There is history and context to all of this that goes beyond gays. Only the bigot ignores all of this. Let me repeat- if you say that you are not for marriage equality- you are not for rights.
Equality in the US goes to the heart of rights. Every debate gays have right now (with the exception of issues over violence and to a small degree even that) is a product of the battle over equaliy- regardless of whether its ENDA, DADT or gay marriage. They are all questions of equality. You can not be for gay rights, and deny equality.
Chitown Kev
@Tim in SF:
I agree with this. Hilton, for all of his flaws, is a representative but not the representative.
Another issue is the morality=religion meme. Remember the move for Indian independence and the Black Civil Rights movement had a religious core, whereas our side has defined (justifiably) defined religion as the enemy. Somehow, we have to find a way to state the morality of our cause and make a distiction between morality and religion. A humanist perspective can help here.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Right. Equality is the moral imperative, the key is to effectively separarte a moral imperative from a religious imperative. That is what our side needs to successfully do.
Scooter
Because this incident is getting lots of press, it does affect us. He is the bad gay stereotype.
Perez lost whatever shreads of dignity he had when he stooped to calling her names. When he dropped the C-word, he lost it all. Had he attacked her arguement, he might have won this debate. Instead, she’s the victim, he’s the wicked queen.
But what should we expect from someone who draws penises on people’s pictures?
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Gay Numbers:
Oooooh!
It’s the minorities! They are all the same…
Very…whats the word? Not so much self hate which is evident but like cowardly..like someone who gets bullied and instead of retaliating in a way to be WHO they want to be etc in the future..they still seek approval from that bully from school..
We always regress as people. Regress to who or what we were when we were young or at school.
Life is one giant playground..
🙁
Alec
@Scooter: I’m not really concerned over a backlash from Hilton but, I agree with you, he lost the moral high ground by using slurs.
The Gay Numbers
Anthony:
You are right. I did not want to bring up the analogy, but I may as well use what I know.
This argument over representing the group with the model member, and then they will like us is as old as civil rights struggles in the US , and probably older.
African Americans do it. The so called talented 10 that will uplift our race. supposedly I am a part of that talented 10. You could always see that in both black politics and culture. Bill Cosby being the one who will up lift our race, but a Richard Pryor being a loud mouth, foul guy who would “harm us.” Martin Luther King saving us. Malcolm X destroying us. Except even MLK was not well liked by some of the bigots. Remember the queen J Edgar Hoover tried to find dirt on MLK as a “commie.”
The point is there is nothing new that gays are experiencing here. Were there more students of history people might know this. You also right to say its deep seated pathos. People who come from a situation of being oppressed develop a kind of blindness about how much they desire the support of the oppressor. Gays are, in fact, even worse. Most of us are coming out of families who are mostly straight. We desperately want their support. Even if we get it, there is this emotional period before we come out where most of us are not sure based on o ur society that we will get it. That’s psychologically damaging.
You can see a lot of that here with people rushing the defend the bigot, and attack Perez Hilton. My thing is this- I don’t think Hilton is a proper spokes person, but between him at the Beauty Queen, I know which one is putting butter on my bread, and which one is attacking me.
Anyone defending her over him here has some serious psychological damage going on if they are gay. I am sure they rationalize it,b ut at base, its a deep need to gain that approval you discuss.
The Gay Numbers
John in England:
We are not all the same, but we share enough in common as to be equal under the law regarding our differences.
Tim in SF
@Nickadoo1970: I fear our quest to turn anyone who attempts to respectively disagree with us (however feebly) into mortal enemies may block any opportunity to engage in thoughtful, reasoned intellectual debate.
What do you mean “our?” Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
Perez has an agenda – to make himself more famous. I would look at everything he does in public as business – public relations for a gossip columnist seeking greater celebrity. Perez represents himself. He does not represent the gay community. Anyone who says he does is either a scared, self-hating, homophobic, assimilationist fag, OR, an ignorant straight person.
There’s no engaging the venomous hatred of the Matt Barbers, Fred Phelpses,
I call bullshit. I, myself, have engaged Fred Phelps. I threw eggs at him and his family when they picketed at the end of my block during San Diego gay pride, 1997 or 98 I think.
… and Maggie Gallaghers of the world.
How someone could cram so much bullshit into two paragraphs is impressive. You should work in politics. As for Gallagher, I regularly see Mike Signorile “engage” that fat, ugly cunt on CNN or MSNBC.
…But, like my female pageant friend, with maturity and experience many would-be adversaries can grow become our allies.
Some people say that Martin Luther King would never have gotten as far as he did if he wasn’t such a great alternative to Malcom X, who was near universally condemned.
By way of comparison, who is to say you would be even half as effective raising awareness with your bimbo friend if straight people weren’t wary of the Perez Hiltons of the world?
afrolito
The pitiful self loathing and homophobia directed at gays from other gays is so tiring. The nasty comments about Perez on this site are just as damaging and telling as those from the traditional homophobes. The real problem with this man is that he’s a loud flaming queen, who makes self loathing “straight (worshiping) acting” gays uncomfortable. If he was some hot, buff, Abercrombie clad moron, his antics would be praised and adored. As annoying as I find him to be most of the time, I love that he’s out there getting his voice heard, and not trying to prove to straight how just as fucking normal as them. As someone above stated, he does promote gay issues on his site, and it’s also a place where gay youth feel comfortable to express themselves in whatever way they want…..especially the young ones who are so often maligned in their own communities.
I’d take Perez over some safe, apologist fucker any day.
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
Yep. Hilton is no Mattachinist, that’s for sure.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Anthony in Nashville:
“This probably won’t come out right, but in my opinion, oppressed people seek the approval of those who are holding them back because of psychological trauma (what Marley referred to as “mental slavery”) and self-esteem issues.”
Of course.
But it’s also a human ‘thing’ to seek to somewhat be over powered, to hate irrationally and to be a victim.
I’m being crude, I know but that’s the jiste of it.
It’s like that saying, if it wasn’t that group that oppressed, it’d just be another one. It’s rather exhausting.
Some of the volunteer work I do is to try and inspire people so they can take control of their lives and aim to educate themselves further to achieve that..and I’m not event nec talking about people who have deep emotional issues..
And damn, is it hard!
Because we seek inherently to follow and to worship, despite what has happened with the economies, people are STILL not attempting to educate themselves clearly or fairly, instead they switch to something/one else to ‘listen’ to.
Despite the homophobia that continues to exist through killing gays or suicides or just Miss California crap..people are still mute.
Perez crossed that fine line between ego and activist.
And I don’t think Dan Savage is the one in between AT ALL. He’s not a great debater and keeps on interrupting getting to angry. It needs to be someone who is sercure in themsleves, whether they are flamboyant or not. They need to not have so much defensiveness or self hate issues…otherwise people just ‘roll their eyes’
The Gay Numbers
Chitown- there can be a religious element to it as well. The Black Civil rights movement – as in anti slavery grew up of a break with prior relgious tradition that condoned slavery. There maybe a similar force at play between conservative and liberal religions over gay rights including marriage. I agree that there are secular moral principles such as equality that must be a part of any emotional appeal for gay rights, but there are possible new allies amongst progressive religions as well.
Alec
@afrolito: If he was some hot, buff, Abercrombie clad moron, his antics would be praised and adored.
Speak for yourself. If he was an Abercrombie clone that was also a gossip columnist and used slurs to engage his opponents, I’m pretty certain I’d remain critical.
The Gay Numbers
Re Perez Maligning
I agree that he’s a fame whore, but he really does care about gay rights issues. He does cover it a lot on his site, and is roundly attacked for it constantly by the bigots.
Jake
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): B.S.!!! While I agree strongly that you should stand up to your tormentors, it is asinine to throw a little queer fit every time someone says something you disagree with. Would it have been so hard to engage this girl in a legitimate debate?
As for defeating our enemies… that is done through sane discourse and reasonable discussion by reasonable parties in a public forum. It will not be accomplished by shrill bedazzled loudmouths who don’t know how to convince anyone outside of their closest friends and strongest supporters.
Chopsie
Personally, I think this whole shitstorm is much ado about nothing. If Hilton hadn’t kept going on about it, she’d be just another bimbo beauty pageant contestant. Thanks to him, she’s poised to be the Anita Bryant of ’09. Forget ’em both.
TANK
Of course not. First, it’s not a community, so the only thing you could mean is whether or not he’s a problem for equal rights or somesuch whatever. And how could that be? Only in the feverish zealotry of a jealous queer’s fantasies would this walking void be an obstacle…
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but our side has kicked all religion to the curb. We need to better make that distinction between liberal and conservative traditions (which don’t have to necessarily be Christian) and there needs to be a place for the in gay culture (as opposed to civil rights arguments, which need to remain in the civil equality sphere).
The Gay Numbers
Jake is another emotionally damaged gay man who is lashing out against anyone who does not accept his own version of self hate as being the right course of action.
The Gay Numbers
Chi
I definitely mean all faiths. Sorry I did not make that clear. The fact is its a strategic error to give up such a huge amount of territory as faith to the bigots. This is one of those biggies that you don’t want to give up because, even if you are not a religious person, it creates a space for the bigots to flourish and use the faith as an excuse to rationalize the bigotry.
Jake
@The Gay Numbers: Ouch! I don’t think I am all that emotionally damaged (comparatively lol). I like myself and most gays. Doesn’t change the fact that Perez is a bad representative for the gay movement…
InExile
I cannot believe all the hate filled remarks about Perez Hilton here in the comments! Who else spoke out publicly lately for equality and received coverage on Larry King, CNN, ABC and so on? If people are talking, the public is being educated. If we are not in the news cycle, we do not exist! Passively asking for rights instead of demanding rights will get us no where.
GranDiva
@jason:
Except that he’s not. Perez HIlton is not concerned with the welfare of the gay community at large. Perez Hilton is interested in promoting the Perez Hilton brand, and will do or say anything that raises his profile and allows him to think that he’s being taken seriously.
Aaron
I read Qeerty at least 3-4x a day and have noticed how much you have a thing against Perez. Always thought it was strange cuz you do have quite a bit of gossipy, catty, queeny pieces uploaded everyday (what’s with the Girlfriend Kevin Spacey headline?). But now you mention that you went to school with him…it’s beginning to come across as sour grapes with his success.
Carrie Prejean is now saying that gays aren’t born gay. Sorry, but Perez calls’m as he sees’m. No other minority being discriminated would be up for debate.
Anyway, I love Queerty…you’ve got informative and insightful content all throughout the day. Keep it up and forget about Perez…he’s a gossip columnist. That’s it.
white power
Why is it that gays lash out when you don’t agree with them, this country is about freedom. If I don’t agree with a F*G I don’t have to. gays want to be treated as equals just as long as they are getting what they want and no one disagrees with them. But disagree with them they show just how “PINK” they are. You have the right to “SHUT THE H#LL UP”. Live with the fact that we don’t have to agree with you sick life style, I have that right because this is still America.
The Gay Numbers
Jake
Yes, you are emotionally damaged. It comes through when you on about how there is some model minority in a reasoned debate who is going to accomplish the end of equality. The rule is that there is no rule. Some times it will be reasoned debates, and other times it will be the person screaming and frothing at the mouth. The damage part is to not realize that you are self limiting your self due to baggage about sexuality- the so-called “queer fit.” There is nothing wrong with emotions when you have something you care about Jake. Emotions are messy, but they give a sense to people that you know there must be something there that he or she cares about. One of the reason Obama thinks as he does about gays as “just another issue” as he framed it when discussing picking Rich Warren is that this whole dispassionate stuff gives the impression that no one, not even gays themselves, cares. It’s a matter of chooising between red or green as a color rather than something that matters.
Brian Miller
@Straight-n-narrow babe:
his tirade against Miss California for expressing HER OPINION, for ANSWERING HIS QUESTION has mobilized the Christian community!!
How funny!
Your figurehead is a ditzy 21-year-old blonde chick whose primary claim to fame is wearing sheer outfits that leave little to the imagination, pushing up her pert breasts so they jiggle invitingly as she struts on stiletto heels in front of a bunch of horny older men!
Oh how funny — you couldn’t invent comedy like this. 🙂
afrolito
@Aaron:
“I read Qeerty at least 3-4x a day and have noticed how much you have a thing against Perez. Always thought it was strange cuz you do have quite a bit of gossipy, catty, queeny pieces uploaded everyday (what’s with the Girlfriend Kevin Spacey headline?). But now you mention that you went to school with him…it’s beginning to come across as sour grapes with his success.”
BINGO
This site is really no better a representation of “gay people” than Perez’s site. They both trade in catty gossip and innuendo, with Queerty getting the edge for gratuitous man candy.
Brian Miller
@GranDiva: Perez HIlton is not concerned with the welfare of the gay community at large
You could say the same thing about most gay activists. There’s a massive amount of self-interest in promoting gay rights.
Be real. Most activity grows out of self-interest, and this nausea-inducing idea of the “altruistic gay activist who cares only for the community” is a big steaming crock of shit. Most prominent gay activists make six-figure incomes… the only “interest for the gay community” is what they make in their big certificate of deposit accounts.
Jake
@The Gay Numbers:
Mr. Numbers,
I appreciate the thoughtful response. Perhaps we have different goals for our collective movement. My dream is that being gay will one day not be an issue. I don’t want to vanquish everyone who disagrees with me. I want to show them the error of their ways.
As for emotion and not being willing to fight when its time to fight, you are wholly incorrect about that. I have stood on those lines. Like many people on this board, I have been attacked and I have attacked right back, violently, loudly and with conviction and honor for my cause and myself.
My experience shows me that most people in America who have a problem with gays don’t know very many of them. I am very representative of the gay community. I am strong, independent, intelligent and very willing to kick a little ass when its called for.
In this situation, a loftier debate was called for.
The Gay Numbers
My goal is for it not be an issue too. The difference is that I don’t have any other goals outside of equality and for it not t be issue. You seem to have rules about how to move from point a to z. I don’t. I believe in the mantra by any means necessary. If reason works, use that. But, if emotions work, use that. The rule is there are no rules except sucess. That’s what history really teaches us.
Jake
@The Gay Numbers: I agree completely.
I also think that the best way to win support is to introduce ourselves to the world. So, do you want to introduce Perez Hilton? I don’t.
Tim in SF
@Jake: While I agree strongly that you should stand up to your tormentors, it is asinine to throw a little queer fit every time someone says something you disagree with. Would it have been so hard to engage this girl in a legitimate debate?
Calling Miss California a “stupid bitch” and a “cunt” are not only legitimate statements, they also have the benefit of being true.
Tony
Perez Hilton is disgusting and for a man pushing 40 and working in media he should know more about getting his message out and the impact it has.
As a gay man I actually find myself supporting Carrie in this debate. At least she is being true to who she is and stating her beliefs. She is acting like an adult while a man decade older than her acts like a spoiled brat. I don’t buy for one second that Perez Hilton cares about gay rights other than they allow him a platform for attention.
A message is often lost in its delivery and the way Perez is acting our rights message is totally lost.
Tim in SF
@Chitown Kev: Another issue is the morality=religion meme. Remember the move for Indian independence and the Black Civil Rights movement had a religious core, whereas our side has defined (justifiably) defined religion as the enemy. Somehow, we have to find a way to state the morality of our cause and make a distiction between morality and religion. A humanist perspective can help here
For every inch the fight for gay equality pushes religion out of our society, I am thankful. This is a feature, not a bug.
Jake
@Tim in SF:
Can’t disagree with your premise there. I would have done it differently.
Straight-n-narrow babe
@Brian Miller:
It is funny, isn’t it? Rich irony.
The Gay Numbers
He works for some, but not for others. More importantly, if you had framed it as about Hilton rather than about queeny responses, I may have accepted the prior comment. The problem with it was that you focused on finding the right presenter. Right now we do not have that overarching inspirational transformative leader, and thus the solution will probably be fragmented and inclusive of multiple voices, including Hilton. He takes a lot of shit on his site for bringing up gay rights issues. He does post a lot of the subject despite that. So on the one hand- he is a publicity whore, but on the other, as I said, he really does care about these issues it seems. So , I am not really interested in attacking him. Ultimately, he breads my butters, but the homophobic bigot of a beauty queen does not. I don’t have to like Hilton to decide that at least he is speaking for us rather than against us. That’s where my priority lies. Who is attacking us, and who is not. Not whether or not he is the right choice. I don’t think he is. but i dont think HRC or any of the other actual leadership really is either. They are reasonable, but to the point that they are mostly going through the motions. Some debater will argue with them by lying, and they never bother to call them a liar. Sometimes, righeous anger when someone is lying is important. In the Prop 8 battle, it would have been useful for some gays to come out angrily denouncing the lies by the pro 8 people. But instead they try to reason their way ou tof what were visceral issues.
The Gay Numbers
by the way- peo like Tony are probably trolls. I no more believe tony is a gay man that I believe in the easter bunny.
Chitown Kev
@Tim in SF:
I agree with you but our side does need to do a better job of making the distinction between morality and religion. In many parts of Europe this is no problem. That would even apply to Canada. But American culture is religious, in large part, and we do have to engage with it, whether we like that or not.
susan
@ggreen:
of course perez hilton is entitled to his opinion, but so is carrie prejean and he should have left it at that.
I believe that if you ask someone a question you should be prepared to hear their opinion, which he wasn’t. Grow up “Mr Hilton”
My best friend is a gay man and we have discussed Mr Hilton’s reaction and we both believe very strongly that he has alienated many people (gay and straight) with his reaction (that should read over reaction).
SM
United Arab Emirates
The Gay Numbers
Tim
It’s not about you. Sorry, but when you say push religion out it seems stupid to me. Like I just said to Jake about his states about we need reasoned debate- my issue with this is that you really think you have anything to spare? If you want to win, you use whatever is necessary to do so. To say let’s not include religion may make you feel better but it has not relationship to reality. We can not ceed any territory. Including the religious front. to do so, is limiting ourselves in ways that have nothing to do with our equality.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Jake:
“In this situation, a loftier debate was called for.”
That’s idealistic.
It NEVER would have happened.
Perez does what he does, creates situations to ignite debate and like we keep on saying, I don’t think he sees himself as a rep for chrissakes! So let him be!
He’s egotistical and full of it but he’s doing SOMETHING!
Engaging debate.
Anyway, alot of Gay charities and orgs obv agree with you! Hence what happened with prop 8!
You need to get yourself a Peter Thatchell that we have..though he’s really reactive and very protest like, so h’d prob be insulted on this site too!
@ who said it..??
Go on Perez sites, who does a helluva lot for the gay ‘community’..
Tim in SF
@Straight-n-narrow babe: I would have to say Perez is an ENORMOUS problem for the gay community
Once again: Perez represents himself. He is not a problem for the gay community because does not represent the gay community. Anyone who says he does is either a scared, self-hating, homophobic, assimilationist fag, OR, an ignorant straight person.
If you are having trouble understanding this, then ask yourself, Babe, does OJ Simpson represent the heterosexual community? Should I judge you by what he does? No? Why not? You’re both straight.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@susan:
“I believe that if you ask someone a question you should be prepared to hear their opinion, which he wasn’t. Grow up “Mr Hilton””
Oh for godsake. Do you even know who he is?? OF COURSE he was AWARE of what scandal it would cost!!
He did this on PURPOSE!!!!
I’m sure as a frigging out gay man who is pretty effiminate, as well as latino he has spent his WHOLE life listening and not saying ANYTHING when people gave their opinions about his race OR his sexuality!
Lol, he was probably bullied too! A fat kid with no mother growing up really camp?? YOU think he hasn’t had to STFU when people insulted him??
Be smart. Use your brain. Do you know what Spin is? Or PR? Or marketing??
Jake
@The Gay Numbers:
Yeah, I have to agree with most of that. I have a big problem with HRC sitting silently while some jackass gleefully spreads bold faced lies on national TV. I do think those people should be called liars… they are liars. I also think there is a way to say the word LIAR without screaming it alongside a list of obscenities which guarantees the general public will never hear it.
Hilton has his own style… but I am not nearly as convinced as you are that his outrage was genuine or helpful. I think he craves attention and will jump at the chance to get it.
Back to your original point, I agree that we would be better served by more direct language in our media representation. Calling bigotry what it is is a great thing, and I support it. Just be convincing, not just angry. Just angry doesn’t get the job done… It just feels good. And my struggle to be accepted and have equal rights in my own country shouldn’t rest upon the shoulders of people without the emotional stability to form coherent points.
Raymond
@jason:
Alec
@Jake:
Well said.
Tim in SF
@The Gay Numbers: It’s not about you.
Oh, go fuck yourself you sanctimonious ass. Who are YOU to tell ME what IT is about?
Sorry, but when you say push religion out it seems stupid to me.
I could not possible care less about how I sound to you.
Rainbow = diversity of opinion. I have mine, you have yours. You want to pay lip service to your bronze-age sky god worshiping friends? Go right ahead. But you should know that these ignorant fucks are the ones who would hang you from a tree if you were in a country where they had just a bit more control over the government. http://tinyurl.com/c7cbxy
If you want to win, you use whatever is necessary to do so.
Win what? Equality? What about equality for us rational atheists? We’re hated much more than gay people. I know. I’m a gay atheist. I know which one I can talk about openly, anywhere, and which one where, if I talk about it, I better watch my back.
We are not going to agree on this point. Luckily, we don’t have to. There’s plenty of work for both of us to do and, as I said, most of your work on gay equality will push the fundier religion out of fashion.
Win win.
sparkle obama
@Jake:
bzzzt!
no one said you were “less than” for being square!
you are imagining things and you are embracing victim politics as baldly as miss california!
whatever, you are jealous of our boogie.
of course hilton was wrong to call her names.
technically, it’s always wrong!
i’m sorry i called you a “square”.
ps
gays, please stop calling people bigots.
lead by example & attack ideas, not individuals.
Raymond
@jason: I too, am so tired of the gentrified “activists” and their fellow centrist travellers.
ACT UP was the radical type of activism that saved thousands of lives. Our cocktail sipping queens who pass as gay activists produce nothing for their third to half million dollar a year non profit jobs.
I, too am tired of the bitching that kumbaya gays spew out. They deserve Obama the Triangulator and Betrayer. Kiss the arse of those who hate you so that they will tolerate you is the modus operandi for these cocktail gay A group “leaders”.
Perez Hilton may not have Ivy League credentials, nor is he able to have the panache of a Joe Salmonese (vomit), but his great-grandfather married Elizabeth Taylor and his dad started the now international Hilton hotel chains. He gets air time. The Donald hired him. He set up the questions. Do you think had she become Ms. USA that her toxic message would have had less gravitas?
Kudos to you JASON. I agree with you 1000%
sparkle obama
@Nickadoo1970:
thank you!
we are all beautiful children of “god” and we all can be proud to have unique points of view & ideas.
let the fag who is without sin throw the first ballon of pig blood.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Jake:
Was he really angry?
It was soo contrived..
Again, I do think what he did crossed that ego/activist line that has failed many men and women beore and after him…
Of course it’s ALL about him. So what? It still created discussion..but don’t be fooled-which I’m sure deep down you are not-that it’s all about ‘me’ for a huge amount of CEO’s and so called leaders..
sparkle obama
@Raymond:
hahaha
Alec
@Tim in SF: Win what? Equality? What about equality for us rational atheists? We’re hated much more than gay people. I know. I’m a gay atheist. I know which one I can talk about openly, anywhere, and which one where, if I talk about it, I better watch my back.
I’m gay and I’m an atheist, too, but I don’t really think we’re “hated much more” than, say, Christian gay people. I’d say the disagreement is usually pretty polite on matters of faith, particularly given the dominance of atheists in academia and in the natural sciences. I don’t get visceral reactions from people because I’m an atheist, but I’ve gotten decidedly negative reactions when holding hands with my boyfriend.
afrolito
@Raymond:
“Perez Hilton may not have Ivy League credentials, nor is he able to have the panache of a Joe Salmonese (vomit), but his great-grandfather married Elizabeth Taylor and his dad started the now international Hilton hotel chains.”
Please tell me you were being sarcastic and not completely idiotic with that statement of misinformation.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Alec:
So there’s no room for Malcolm X and MLK?
Question…
From my experiences, poor dissaffected people have been the one’s who have rallied for the Al Sharptons and Malcolm X’s..
So isn’t THAT something? Or something to think about?
It’s all great for us middle classes…or educated working classes to sit there in our glass house saying how we want and eloquent so and so…but er, who is that for? YOU? or the gay population?? Do YOU know what they want? OR what is RIGHT?
Jake
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
I just wish he came off as less of a poorly educated angry petulant little child who got told to stop fidgeting around by mommie. I mean, its not like I wanted him to do nothing… I just think what he did was unhelpful and made us all look bad.
Jake
@sparkle obama:
Its ok… I am kind of a “square”. :p
Stitch
He does for those who hate us what prop 8 did for us: Galvinize.
Alec
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Please don’t compare Perez Hilton to MLK or Malcolm X. Perez Hilton’s particular anger is what is at issue here.
Yes, there’s a place for anger, and for radicalism. But there’s a difference between indignation and petty temper tantrums. Perez Hilton may have actually done more harm than good here.
Nickadoo1970
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): “I’m sure as a frigging out gay man who is pretty effiminate, as well as latino he has spent his WHOLE life listening and not saying ANYTHING when people gave their opinions about his race OR his sexuality!”
To be fair, Mario Lavandeira is not particularly effeminate in real life. “Perez Hilton” is a character he plays, and the swishing and camping is all for show.
maddie
i;m not gay and so maybe my perspective is different. I think the gay rights moevemnt is way further along that many here give it credit for. Perez may be an ass or whatever but anyone who is even remotely open to gay rights and the gay movement already realizes he’s who he is. We’re not equating him with all gays.
I’m a black woman who suffered through what i consider the embarrassment of Jesse Jackson and to a lesser extent Al Sharpton all through the 80s and 90s. I think feeling bad about them was probably right back then but now, even oif they were to do something stoopid, i;m not afraid that whites would say “see? all black folks are like that.”
and frankly i think the gay rights movement is beyond that point as well.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Nickadoo1970:
Oh, he was when he was a kid….read the countless interviews….though I know he hams it up which is my point EXACTLY.
@Jake:
We would’ve always looked bad…
@Alec:
I was being crude to prove a point. I did mention Al Sharpton. You can ignore him all you like BUT he is ‘extra-ordinary’ in the way he has been able to create the new internet media…
And he’s not dumb. How many times has he posted thoughtful statements pro gays or latinos..on his site?
I mean. Look, I will say again that he CROSSED the ego/activist line..
But like it OR not, Perez is intrinctive to 21st century pop culture. I should say culture, as the lines are so blurred after the growth of Paris Hilton in the early 2000’s…
My point is, why was their a penchant for these people?
Peres is no REP but we need someone like HIM with those hits/exposure on our side..
BUT it is a pity he dances towards the ego so much..
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@maddie:
Because they don’t care! All they see is a n*gger.
Shit isn’t it when you realise that??
It doesn’t matter what you try, or hide or pretend…YOU will always be what they think you are…on the outside.
Lol, I remember this white guy asking me AGES ago what I felt about Condaleeza Rice…and I was like..erm ‘we’re humans first and we’re black second’.
Jon
@Jake: Kudos Jake…. I could not have said it better myself.
Poseidon
Mario is an embarrassing petulant child – not just to the gay community, but to humanity in general. He’s the best gift the gay community could give to the anti-gay rights movement, and every time someone clicks on his web site or tunes into his unimaginative drivel, the anti-gay crowds breathe a prayer of silent relief.
The Gay Numbers
Tim
You must think being a dick is going to make me back off. That’s not going to happen. All it’s going to do is guarantee that I am going to keep speaking truth to your bullshit agenda that has nothing to do with gay rights. I am not interested in having my rights predicated on your bagage. So, if you are waiting for me to fuck off, you will waiting a long time.
mikeandrewsdantescove
We all know Perez loves some good publicity. That brings millions of people to his site. However, calling Miss California the B and C words didn’t help matters.
The more Miss California opens her mouth, the bigger idiot she is. She think people learn to be gay?!?
Mike Andrews
Kory Gates in Out Loud (Triad Pride Anthem)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYr3CVFYUVU
Jon
@The Gay Numbers: Are you kidding me?
The Gay Numbers
Ditto what John in England is saying. The idea that you can do anything through reason has been disproven in politics since oh, Plato. The point is reason without passion is not going to sway the public. No one is arguing pure passion here. We are arguing that its a necessary element. If you aren’t compelling people emotionally, they are not going to be compelling. This is my point about using everything. For the record, I am not even Christian. It’s funny that people assume that anyone who says include Christians and other people of faith is per se alos Christian. My point is that my agenda is to hit them emotionally where it will help us. That’s my bottom line. All these other agendas about how people feel about religious people or whatever else can be used to rationalize non-inclusion is beyond me. That’s why i can say Hilton is irrelevant. i am glad he’s chipping in even if his motives are not pure. Ultimately, this is the Law and Order mentality where peo sit around worrying about motives. I don’t care about what Hilton’s motives are so long as he’s on the right side of the issues. When he’s on the wrong side, I will complain. This again is to say that if your issue is gay rights, then nothing else matters.
The Gay Numbers
No Jon , whoever, you are- you are to orthodox to kid. I can count of several of you to post in threads like this talking about how radical you are, bu in fact you are just as orthodox as the other well rehearsed players. The radical is to use whatever means is available to us. Please, gays talking about how we are anti religious or use techniques that have been hurting us regarding how we need to be the reasonable ones is orthodoxy. The new idea is to say do whatever is necessary and don’t give a fuck about the baggage. I don’t care about anything other than advancing gay rights. The rest- whether Hilton is queeny. Whether gays should have a problem with religon is all external to that goal.
virescentgirl
My grandmother once said: You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Maybe some people should think about that. Though we all have our right to speak our minds – tact, respect, and courtesy do go a long way in helping people understand a particular point of view. Shouting (whether it is the angry gay guy or the hellfire and brimstone sign toting guy on the street corner) never really gets the right kind of attention or consideration.
Alec
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): I also don’t think it is fair to compare him to Sharpton (a man I like quite a bit), either. I mean, look at what this debate started as: A question in a beauty contest. And look at what it is being transformed into: A debate over bigotry. I agree, substantively, with Hilton’s points. The CNN interview, from what I saw, was fine.
I don’t read his site. The only time I ever come across him is here (where I also get about 90% of my celeb gossip, incidentally). But I object to the way he did it. And I don’t think now is the time to clone Anita Bryant.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Alec:
Exactly Alec.
YOU don’t read it but love him or hate him…millions DO! Which is why he has been such a phenomenom!
“I mean, look at what this debate started as: A question in a beauty contest. And look at what it is being transformed into: A debate over bigotry. I agree, substantively, with Hilton’s points. The CNN interview, from what I saw, was fine.”
Again, THANK YOU for proving my point! Boy did good huh? This was what he strategically wanted to create.
We all know-well I do cause I like gossip-that Perez was NEVER the funniest..or sharpest BUT he had the nuance. The perception and foresight to take his brand further-shamelessly so!
Is that good or bad…x, y and z decide.
But that paragraph you just wrote shows how successful he is, at doing what he does.
We needed this debate.
Again, another question, would he be so popular if he played it nicey wicey? I mean come on guys…you Americans are all aggression football..boom..boom boom!
Perez gave that in the form of gossip.
Cam
“”I think the question he posed to Prejean was a good one, but the subsequent ‘angry gay man’ routine he’s been doing since then may have spiked his site’s traffic, but it’s only served to hurt the cause of equality.””
______________________________________________________________
Just how has it done that? I haven’t noticed Iowa repealing gay marriage, Maine is moving ahead with gay marriage as is Washington DC, so again, tell my just how he has hurt the cause? If a few people that already hated us are upset that is nothing new. Remeber, they had to send in the national guard to integrate schools, so people are ALWAYS going to be pissed off at change and blaming Perez rather than thanking him for pointing out Miss CA’s bigotry is the typical quaking leaf style of gay politics that over the last 10 years has done absolutly nothing for the cause.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@virescentgirl:
Did your grandma say this even if it includes a debate into a subject that has gone on to national news?
Hmm…all respect to your gran but that probably worked in the 50’s/60’s…
Maybe we need to look towards solutions that mirror the society and human nature that we live in… :/
Joe mama
Perez is NOT gay. He was one of those outcasted chubby kids who was not accepted by the boys growing up, so he turned into the textbook effeminate fat theater kid, identifying with the girls because they accepted him as the jolly funny fat guy friend.
He acts like a flamer because it is trendy, because it makes him feel like he has a purpose and cause, and because he thinks it gives him a free license to be a diva without consequence (like calling Miss CA a dumb bitch and cunt). If any straight guy or even girl judge pulled that shit they would’ve been torn up by the public in a Michael Richards-esque career execution.
Gays want Perez as a spokesperson like black people want Michael Jackson as theirs. He is more concerned about raising awareness for himself than any cause he pretends to fight for.
Tim in SF
@The Gay Numbers: · You must think being a dick is going to make me back off. That’s not going to happen.
No, actually. I’m like this all the time. Read my posts.
All it’s going to do is guarantee that I am going to keep speaking truth to your bullshit agenda that has nothing to do with gay rights.
Wow, so much fail in that one sentence.
1. I am in agreement with the majority of your comments. However, sometimes I disagree with you on a point. So I hit you on that.
2. My goal is not to make you back down. If anything, it’s to make you question your position or at least defend your position better and maybe convince me.
3. Whatever “bullshit agenda” you think I have is a mystery to me. I am in an interracial marriage with a a dude and I live in San Francisco. We’re pretty fucking gay over here. When I’m protesting in front of the Mormon Church here or getting in an argument with an employer about benefits coverage for my former DP / current spouse or trying to decide what wine goes with dinner, each one is on my gay agenda. Not a bullshit agenda.
4. If you don’t like my saucy language, don’t read my comments.
I am not interested in having my rights predicated on your bagage.
This is one of those instances where you make no fucking sense. My contention is you can do whatever the hell you want. That’s been my point this whole thread: Perez should be able to do and say whatever the hell he wants without his fellow queers getting the knives out.
Scrufff
I’m not a regular reader of Perez, but my off the cuff observations is his heart is in the right place and he’s got the right intent but he is WAY out of his league in trying to be some type of national representative of the gay rights movement. Come on, he’s a blogger who draws little obnoxious doodles on B list celebrities.
Perez, keep at your doodles, its what made you famous, and sadly all the talent you have. Perez please take heed to these immortal words from the musical Gypsy “You gotta have a gimmick”!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFRSawe33sA
Dan Savage is my hero. Have you seen him debate on talk shows? If not you could probably find video clips on youtube. He’s witty, smart and succinct (and not to mention easy on the eyes). During the 2008 election and post Prop 8, he did some TV appearances going toe-to-toe with ring-wing, professional talking heads that are used to yelling down anyone that does not agree with them. Dan displayed the ability to stay on topic, debate in an informed and intelligent manner and best of all he yelled right back and did not let these right-wing blow hards quite him into submission!
Yes he’s a sex columnist but after years writing his column and books, he’s evolved into a mature, very well spoken advocate of gay rights. His column is not only read across the US but worldwide with a readership that spans the full spectrum of young, old, gay, straight and everything in between and beyond these parameters. I’d call him the anti-Perez.
Dan keep at!
P.S. an amusing side note. For those that don’t know – a few years ago Rick Santorum on national TV equated that homosexuality is akin to beastality. Dan used his column for the following.
From widipedia: After the remarks were made, Dan Savage, a widely syndicated sex columnist who was offended by Santorum’s remarks, retaliated by hosting a contest in his Savage Love column for his readers to create an alternate definition for “santorum” to be disseminated into common usage. The definition that won associated the senator’s last name with anal sex: “santorum” was defined as “the frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.” Through the use of google bombs, Savage’s new definition for the senator’s name shortly thereafter became the top hit in a Google search for “Santorum.
To read Dan’s column, articles and his Slog (blog) entries http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=1473684
More about Dan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Savage
BTW: I’m not in any way affiliated with Dan Savage, Slog, The Stranger newspaper or any other Dan Savage related material. I’m just a fan.
NewYorkness
Two Points:
1. Perez Hilton doesn’t represent the gays just as much as Ellen or Elton don’t; and though he’s all over the place and therefore influential, the real gays will make the most impact when friends, family, relatives, and co-workers know you’re gay and no different than them.
2. Perez Hilton’s style and MO has not changed since started his blog. At that time he was on the fringes of blogging as a celebrity rumor intermediary and was edgy and different. However, as how all things edgy and different go, they don’t fare well within the mainstream and will therefore offend many gays and straights.
The Gay Numbers
Tim you wrote a long post saying nothing. I am going to continue to disagree where I think you are wrong. If you don’t like that- tough.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Cam:
Oh right…so how quick to do things happen in YOUR world!!
Christ! I work in business and hell, it takes a year for things to really take picture!
I’m speechless.
WTF?
Jon
@The Gay Numbers: Ok, honey, you realllllllly need to cut back on the cafffine…. 1st of all, as a Canadian (Thank you god)I can sit back and look at the cultural battle that is going on in America and shake my head and say, “if only the yanks would just talk to each other instead of screaming….” alot more could be accomplished. This applies to both sides. 2nd, if I was a supporter of your method I would be rather concerned about you accepting support from anyone, queeny or not… your revolution may find itself in trouble if that’s your approach.
My advice, fight for equality but remember that equality has two faces – any equality we get must be given in return regardless of whether we like them or agree with them or not. I may not like your spouting off like an over caffinated über-hyper child but I certainly support your right to do so… Just as I support Miss Cali’s right to say what she believes or Mario’s right to say what he wants…. Just don’t ask me to agree with you and certainly don’t tell I’m wrong for not agreeing with you. Democracy my friend democracy.
sal
why are we falling for this “if you hate one gay you must then hate all”…we are individuals each and every flipin one of us and i dont give a rats arse what perez does cause he doesnt speak for me,i can speak 4 myself.just like hip hop for the black community,im not that but thats our “identity” ,it aint mine im listen,dress,talk like ME ,the individual thank u
getreal
I don’t think anyone but him would have had the cojones(balls) to have asked that question at the Miss USA pageant. Marriage equality is a mainstream issue and as the question and answer period is meant to discuss current events it was totally appropriate and brave of him if you ask me. What Perez Hilton understands and that many LGBT people need to get is that if this issue is not brought up at every opportunity it will only help homophobes and anti-marriage advocates. He started a dialogue and no doubt there were people in the audience who were reminded that there is still legal discrimination of American citizens in this country.
The Gay Numbers
the notion that hilton will offend straights and gays is amusing as if our rights are predicated on hilton alone. It also assumes people like rich warren base their bigotry on hilton. for that matter, it assumes things like prop 8 would happen if we just act the right way. This is the core silliness here. That hilton matters. He does not.
Raymond
@InExile: Yes, Salmonese was hired because he is quiet and ineffective and inoffensive…..at a cost of a third of a million US dollars a year….and he has had that salary long enough now to be a millionaire.
How has your life changed on the federal level because of that cocktail sipping queen? The state legal eagles and the national legal organizations are getting states’ rights.
HRC deals with Congress, and nothing happens. Cheryl Jacques did not earn a third of a million and wanted to stress federal marriage equality as the first and foremost, and the A group queens took her down.
virescentgirl
I find it still works today – and is pertinent to this debate as well. Having traveled and lived over seas I can also tell you it is a great philosophy to follow in numerous situations. I agree, there is a time to shout and get angry, but name calling and disrespect is never ok in my book. How a person reacts to things which they disagree speaks volumes to their character. I do think this is a debate which needs to be hashed out and I would love to be able to marry my partner in my state, but I know here – all this angry ranting and name calling has not helped where the debate on a grassroots level is concerned (individual to individual).
The Gay Numbers
Jon
My interest in your advice ended at Canadian. No skin in the game.
sal
..perez personality is his personality..if anything there should be more voices out there to show we are all different yet we all stand against hate and unfair discrimination
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Scrufff:
We all KNOW about Dan Savage! Their are some pretty well informed commenters on this GAY blog y’know!?
And no, he doesn’t argue well at all. He’s too angry and flippant. Google the prop 8 stuff with Anderson Cooper.
No offence to him but he does what he does well but he’s NO rep. He needs to be smarter…less flippant…like with the whole black people prop 8..that wasn’t bright.
Jon
@The Gay Numbers: I have no idea what that means…. And frankly I’m not interested in finding out….. ‘my interest in your advice ended at Canadian” ??? Oh the bigotry…. Oh the bigotry! See folks, Gay people can be just as narrow minded as the straight folk… don’t it make you proud.
The Gay Numbers
What’s more telling Vir is that so many of you are more worried about decorum than the underlying rights. This to me is fascinating that all a bigot has to do to seem reasonable to you is to speak quietly and politely about it. Therefore, a bigot can say I want to exterminate al the Jews, but as long as they are not frothing at the mouth then they are fine. I once knew a guy from Africa – I am not going to specific where. His thesis was since some other group had killed his family and friends, this then gave him license to go back to kill off a whole group of people. He was quiet. He was polite. That does not change the fact he was talking about genocide. The point is that politeness can not and should not be a criteria for how we understand what is or is not offensive. To base it on that misses the entire point of how we can be manipulated by such tactics.
Raymond
@The Gay Numbers: So what if he is a Canadian….I am a dual national or citizen of the United States and Canada.
If he is gay, he has foreskin in the game….or none, as the case might be….but he has the right to tell you and me that while you argue about Perez Hilton and his activism….the Canadians have ALL and I repeat ALL the rights that you won’t have in the United States for the next seven decades.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Jon:
Oh my god your post has soo infuriated me!!!
Why the fuck are you sticking up for a bigoted bitch who just said she wants NO rights for YOU?????
Oh, please tell me..and I mean LINK any repub websites that are taking your line of thinking!
I don’t GET this.
Why do the left ALWAYS fight! But the right? Ha! They laugh!
You’re peacful energy should be reserved for someone who gives a shit whether you live or die..
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Gay Numbers:
Hmm, why?
That was flippant. Even if I don’t agree with his saying at all…though he did come across as SMUG.
“1st of all, as a Canadian (Thank you god)I can sit back and look at the cultural battle that is going on in America and shake my head and say, “if only the yanks would just talk to each other instead of screaming….” alot more could be accomplished.”
getreal
He started a dialogue about equality it is likely there are now a lot of people thinking about the inherent injustice of things who never really of it thought before. Like him or not he put this issue where it belongs on the front page.
Jon
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Simple. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. I have ZERO interest in censorship. Zero. Zero. I am not defending what she said but I will defend her right to say it. If that makes me smug then so be it – you are afterall free to your own opinion.
virescentgirl
That is the funny thing about speech – we all have a right to do it. And I don’t care what a person says or who is saying it, quite frankly. I was only making the point that many people will not truly hear someone who is just shouting and shouting so disrespectfully. I get crazy shouting Leviticus bible street corner sign carrying people in my town all the time… and I smile and keep walking. They don’t usually have a crowd. Most people don’t listen, many are turned off. I just think being respectful goes a long way. No matter what you are trying to say or what side of a debate you are on. Remember, you can be respectful and still be loud.
Jon
@virescentgirl: Excellent point.
getreal
@virescentgirl: Co-sign
Jared
The problem I see with Perez getting praise for what he did is that he’s trying to be both a guilty pleasure and an activist, when you really can’t have it both ways. It would be like expecting someone like Flavor Flav doing something spectacular for the black community.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Jon:
Indeed we are.
Good for you.
The next time a closeted teen hangs himself because of some blonde android creep who feels HE shouldn’t be counted, I’ll give you a shout out.
At least as a gay teen living in the middle of nowhere-flamer OR not…the biggest gossip site ‘guru’ is on YOUR side.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@virescentgirl:
And Kumbaya!
Again…LOOK at the society around you!? It’s not ALL about YOU GUYS!
How presumptious and self gratifying.
Oh well, at least you all go to bed smacking your backs for being such sound and respectable folk of our darrrrk…society.
MAXWELL
ALL I KNOW IS THAT GAY MEN ARE THE MOST INTOLERANT BUNCH OF MEN I KNOW YET THEY KEEP CRYING ” WE WANT EQUAL RIGHTS NOW BLA BLA BLA”. YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH OBAMA? WELL GUESS WHAT? MOST OF US HAVE ISSUES WITH YOU LIFESTYLE TOO.
naynay
@getreal: Yap he started a dialog by calling a girl the b word alright. I wonder what would have happened if the girl dropped the f word on him too. Oh wait….the girl is mature and miss perez hilton is a sexist pig! he sucks!
Jon
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Oh come now…. that line of ‘reasoning’ is just a bit alarmist… Ah, but as long as the yelling, screaming and attacking anyone that does not agree with you makes you feel like you are making a difference then good for you. Good for you. I have heard this arguement on here before, probably from you… I tell you what, the next time some gay guy anywhere feels he doesn’t feel part of your community because he doesnt march or find enemies behind every tree stump then I will give you a shout out.
Rational discussion is a wonderful tool of democracy.
Straight-n-narrow babe
@Tim in SF:
“He is not a problem for the gay community because does not represent the gay community.”
No, he may not be an elected representative, but unfortunately, it is the extreme minority that gets noticed. I recognize that he is no more a “typical” gay man than Tammy Faye Bakker is or was a “typical” Christian woman. My point was that the fallout of his actions has given Carrie has way more exposure and platform than she would have had as Miss USA.
virescentgirl
@ John From England – My philosophy about how to treat others is not just about this debate or issue or group. However, it is your right and anyone else’s to approach any given debate how you think is best, and I support your right to do so. I dare say, I would defend your right to do so – even when we disagree. The only time I would not – is when speech turns to violence. But that is a different topic for a different time.
getreal
@naynay: He started the dialogue on network TV watched by many many millions more people than the people who watched it on his website. She is advocating inequality which is disgusting and morally wrong. If the “b” word upsets your delicate sensibilities more than legalized government sanctioned discrimination than you really need to take a look at your life and your soul and get yourself together.
HeteroDefenseLeague
Lavanderia aka Hilton represents EXACTLY what the homosexual community is all about: hatred, intolerance, bigotry, Christian bashing, Christianphobia, mean spiritedness, intolerance, wrong headedness, ignorance, xenophobia, homosexist, heterophobic hate, etc, etc.
Lavanderia is doing exactly what the Homosexual Agenda scripted psy-ops manifesto calls for, something all you homosexuals bigots are following to the letter that includes claiming homosexuality is not a choice, claiming you’re all victims, trying to equate homosexual behavior with being negro, brainwashing and recruiting in schools, lowering age of consent laws so you can molest children even more, criminalizing opposing the Homosexual Agenda, etc, etc.
Here is the script you are following:
[2] PORTRAY GAYS AS VICTIMS, NOT AS AGGRESSIVE CHALLENGERS.
In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be cast as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to assume the role of protector. If gays are presented, instead, as a strong and prideful tribe promoting a rigidly nonconformist and deviant lifestyle, they are more likely to be seen as a public menace that justifies resistance and oppression. For that reason, we must forego the temptation to strut our “gay pride” publicly when it conflicts with the Gay Victim image. And we must walk the fine line between impressing straights with our great numbers, on the one hand, and sparking their hostile paranoia-“They are all around us!”–on the other.
A media campaign to promote the Gay Victim image should make use of symbols which reduce the mainstream’s sense of threat, which lower it’s guard, and which enhance the plausibility of victimization….Now, there are two different messages about the Gay Victim that are worth communicating. First, the mainstream should be told that gays are victims of fate, in the sense that most never had a choice to accept or reject their sexual preference. The message must read: “As far as gays can tell, they were born gay, just as you were born heterosexual or white or black or bright or athletic. Nobody ever tricked or seduced them; they never made a choice, and are not morally blameworthy. What they do isn’t willfully contrary – it’s only natural for them. This twist of fate could as easily have happened to you!”
And here is why Lavanderia and all you homosexual bigots spew your hatred and bigotry against Prejean and anyone who refuses to adopt your fascist agenda: Because you’re all following the scripted hate agenda!:
“[5] MAKE THE VICTIMIZERS LOOK BAD.
At a later stage of the media campaign for gay rights-long after other gay ads have become commonplace-it will be time to get tough with remaining opponents. To be blunt, they must be vilified.”
vernonvanderbilt
I can’t stand Perez Hilton. He’s obnoxious, vapid, graceless, desperate, and uncouth. I find him to be a mortifying Steppin’ Fetchit, a queericature, if you will. This is why he was selected as a judge for this little beauty contest to begin with. He’s not someone I tend to take seriously, when I take him at all. Confession: I’ve never visited his website, not once, not even accidentally, nor do I intend to. He’s not offering anything that I’m looking for. Everything I know about him I know from blogs like Queerty and the occasional television appearance that I happen to witness, which is not an everyday occurrence. Hell, television watching of any sort is not an everyday occurrence for me.
But I have to come to his defense in this particular instance. Perez Hilton, in his post-show tirade and subsequent television appearances, has embodied what I consider to be a vitally important part of the equality equation which is conveniently forgotten when we’re trying to appear more “civilized” (read: assimilated): Anger.
When he called Carrie Prejean a bitch, how many of you out there can honestly say you didn’t agree with his assessment, even at a subconscious level? I know I did. That’s called Anger, and here’s a newsflash, kids: it’s normal, it’s healthy, and it’s important.
Perez Hilton…his insatiable craving for attention aside, was speaking from his heart, at least in the initial video clip after the show. He was coming from a visceral, emotionally-charged place, and I cannot condemn him for that. Would I have preferred for him to point out the inanity of Prejean’s statement rather than engage in name-calling? Absolutely.
But the point is that, in this particular instance, he was only saying what many of us were thinking. He didn’t let “politeness” or “tact” have a chance at diluting his message, because he didn’t even let them in the door. Its effectiveness can easily be argued, but its honesty is beyond reproach. Sure, he’s recovered from a momentary bout of honesty and gone back to his self-publicizing ways, but for a brief moment, he gave us “the real deal.”
I saw references to MLK and Malcolm X above. I’ll say what I’ve always said: both types of activists are necessary for a movement to prosper and succeed. I’m not saying Perez is in any way our Malcolm, but as far as this incident goes, he’s sort of following the formula. I don’t believe he’s hurting the movement any more than anyone else in his position could. As someone said above, the bigots hate us no matter who’s got the microphone.
Would I like to see someone with a little more intelligence and charisma speaking on our behalf? Of course. But I would not dilute the anger. Hilton’s only failing during this incident is being angry without class. You expect more from him? He’s a gossip blogger, people. Since when do we hold them to high standards? They make a living by being catty and divisive.
In time, this, like every other spat involving almost-celebrities, will fade away, only to be remembered by those directly involved. Just because Perez Hilton is our de facto spokesperson of the moment does not mean it’s forever.
I also take issue with Hilton’s perceived “femininity” having a negative impact on the equality movement. Like many, I think it’s more affectation than honesty on his part. However, to blame our lack of progress on our more effeminate brothers is sexist and a little self-loathing for my taste. Effeminate men, in my opinion, are the real heroes of the GLBT equality movement. They’re the ones with the balls to put it all out there, come hell or high water, and say “This is who I am…you got a problem with that?” They do more for the GLBT community in terms of visibility than any so-called “straight acting” guy who chooses to embrace his privilege and blend in to avoid confrontation.
As for the religious right, I say let them latch onto Carrie Prejean as their new Joan of Arc. Or Anita Bryant. At least they’re wasting energy and attention on someone with the mental capacity of a particularly bright radish. She too, in time, will fade away. It’s not like Anita Bryant’s doing anything newsworthy these days, you know.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is that we should cut Hilton a little slack. He’s only doing what he knows best, self-promoting. In the process, he’s giving us a little more visibility and getting people talking. Who could ask for anything more from the likes of him?
strumpetwindsock
@The Gay Numbers:
Geez, you haven’t tried that little show-stopper on me yet.
I guess you won’t be commenting on international issues anymore, since your “skin” is stuck in the U.S., eh?
(not that I’m going to pay any attention to that stupid rule, but you’re welcome to tie your own arm behind your back if you wish.)
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
And smug, perhaps. I think he could have been a more diplomatic. But there’s some truth in what he says.
Looking at it from the outside things seem a lot more polarized in the U.S. and there is less of an attempt to find common ground.
A lot of the debate on this site is a perfect example. We’re not immune form it here in Canada (and it is worse and getting worse in some places, but there DOES seem to be a bit more of a tradition of compromise up here).
HeteroDefenseLeague
A hate mongering here wrote:
“ACT UP was the radical type of activism that saved thousands of lives.”
Actually, they tried to serial kills as many people as possible when the self admitted fascist ACT UP tried to block responsible partner notification laws, that way homosexuals could serial murder people via vectoring a death virus with utter impunity.
ACT Up created a whole host of propaganda slogans like “AIDS is not just a gay disease” (yeah, right!) “Anyone Can Get It” (yeah, and anyone can get struck by lightning too!) and after it became obvious that normal non ivda heterosexuals were sliugthly more likely to likely to contract HIV than being struck by lightning, ACT UP created all the deflecting, half-truth slogans that were based around the “everyone but male homosexuals are the fastest rising AIDS cases” claptrap.
Sorry, ACT UP was a self admitted fascist, terroristic criminal thug bigot organization that tried to kill thousands of primarily male homosexuals via silencing partner notification laws while sloganeering; “silence = death”.
getreal
Here comes the closet case. We have a new pet crazy fundamentalist and this one puts Bill Predue to shame.
getreal
He is “straight” but is now spending hours everyday trying to get gay people’s attention with his asinine posts which don’t even make sense most of the time and actually contradict each other. He will just post whatever he has to to get gay men’s attention because that is what straight men do obsess about gay men’s sex lives. Crazy Christian fundamentalist closet case. Poor thing.
sal
@naynay: “mature” hahahahahahahah.well i guees one can be blinded by the all American ,apple pie ,girl next door look of miss California but what an evil and rotten soul she has to think that she, being hetero ,is better than me.i pity all the different people in america,the minorities(religions,races,genders etc)who with her kind of thinking arent equal(“my country”)….history will judge this ignorant fool…as judge judy says “beauty fades,dumb is forever”
Ria
I was raised in an extremely religious and conventional family which also believe in marriage between men and women. But I also do not have anything against marriage between the same sexes at all. I have a live and let live philosophy so long as you do not
hurt other people I could care less how you live.
However, Perez Hilton is one of the vilest people(which is my opinion)and I sincerely think that he is out for himself and not for anybody. If you think he is a good champion for gay rights then it is your right but I think he is not. And the comments I have read on these board about Miss Prejean do not really enthrall me at all.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@strumpetwindsock:
I didn’t disagree with what he said…did I? At THAT point..and yes I think what TGN said was odd…for chrissakes you guys are soo linked culturally…though you may have more in common with the UK folks….
@Jon:
It’s not about my opinion, it’s about looking at yourself as a citizen instead of a consumer, that’s all. You consume society, where I recognise myself as part of a society and well, yes, I want to do something about it.
Ironically, I was the one being OPEN to Perez and sticking up for the various degrees of people in this community, although I said he was pretty horrendous BUT should be allowed to..just be.
And YOU are calling me, x, y, z because I thought it was pretty unethical of you to stick up for someone who thinks you’re nothing but a piece of shit?
Okay.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@vernonvanderbilt:
Take a look at his site.
Put the word ’causes’ in the search engine and see how many things he has raised profiles for when he shouldn’t with his vapid commenters.
Maybe it’s a guilt thing? Who knows? But for one, I don’t care because it is breaking boundaries and making people think who wouldn’t normally do so.
sal
to all the idiots who support hate here with your comments,i can see you all finding your places in history with all the racists and sexists who now (still exist,no doubt)but they all realize unfoundrd hate has no place in a peaceful ,progressive society
sal
unfounded*
Jon
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Funny, I don’t recall calling you x, y or zed…. It seems to me that you attacked me by asigning my opinions the fault for a gay teen doing himself in simply because I support freedom of speech…. Honestly I think you make some decent points in some of your earlier points but YOU attacking me because of my unquestioning support for something as fundamental to democracy as freedom of speech is really quite beyond me…. The whole consumer thing…. just bizarre…. just bizarre. I prefer to be part of the whole nation and form my opinions based on a whole and not a fraction. That does not make me any less gay or any less of a supporter of full rights.
getreal
@sal: Co-sign, Co-sign,Co-sign
strumpetwindsock
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
No, I didn’t think you were disagreeing.
But don’t go telling any Canadians that they are just like Americans. That’s fighting words.
*ha ha*
Probably as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie.
sal
and to all who use their hate of perez to deny me my flipin rights you are the real disgusting people.deny people basic rights cause you hate a guy,WOW!!!REAL MATURE CIVILIZATION
Cam
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): you said “No. 142 · John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s)
@Cam:
Oh right…so how quick to do things happen in YOUR world!!
Christ! I work in business and hell, it takes a year for things to really take picture!
I’m speechless.
WTF?”
_______________________________________________________
John,
Exactly, the article made the judgement that Perez has made things worse. Well Gay marriage is still moving ahead in places like New York, DC, Maine etc.. there has been no change to it is not correct for the article to say that Perez has made things worse. What the author does know is that he does not like what Perez has done, but he has no idea what the fallout is, and looking at the last few days the trending is not looking bad for any of the states where gay marriage is moving up the pole. There is no valid reason to say he has made anything worse, it was faulty writing.
Rikard
Mario is the Whore of All Media. Tiresome and barely worth comment. The fact that he was a judge proves the further slide in prestige of the Miss USA Pagent.
sal
@getreal: IF thats a positive response,thankzzzzzz
Jon
@strumpetwindsock: NEVER tell a Canadian they are just like Americans… never. Major faux pas! LOL.
sal
@Rikard: blah blah blah,i want my basic rights!!
Cam
Oh, and one last thing….to all of us non-judgemental gays out there saying “Well I respect her beliefs, I just don’t agree with them.” I applaud your attempts to be fair. I just want to ask you one thing. Would anybody be applauding her for standing up for her beliefs, if she had said that “Caltholics shouldn’t be allowed to marry”” or “Blacks should not be allowed to marry.”?
The only reason people are applauding her for “Standing up for her beliefs” is because it is still ok to “Hate the fags”.
So no, I don’t feel that my opinion and hers is a simple matter of different beliefs. I feel that her opinion is no different than the Klansmen out there who think interacial marriage should be outlawed.
sal
@sal: i am growing tired and frustrated that people are ok with denying their brother and sister equality cause they dont like em but they dont mind their government taking our (dirttttyyyy,one would think)tax dollars?and this ignoranT pageant person doesnt mind getting assistant from the team of gays who helped her ares but when they want their share she get all “ewww” on em..I DONT GET THAT!!!!!!!!
vernonvanderbilt
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): If he somehow manages to do a little good between his bouts of self promotion, more power to him. I am so not going to be visiting his site, though. I certainly don’t see it improving my opinion of him. I made my obligatory defense of the man…don’t make me pay for it with self torture. 😛
sal
“ares”,error i meant a**
Cam
Oh, and John from England (used to be just John but there are other John’s). Go have a Boddington’s and relax. I am invoking the gay adgenda code…yes, it’s that little piece of mind control magic that all the right wingers fear we have but never knew for sure. Under the gay code, you must now agree with everything I say because as gays all of our thoughts and opinions must be exactly the same. I will however let you maintain some free will. for example, I will let you decide whether or not you like Marmite because that is just the kind of nice guy I am. 😉
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@strumpetwindsock:
BUT you are!!
I did mention you were pretty much closer to the UK though? No?
Lucky Luke
After reading all theses comments, there’s nothing much to add, excpet that I thoght Perez ghad already been forgotten by the media, since it’s been mponths since I read anyhting related to him. As for bithcy blogs by gay men, make mine DListed.
Scott
This is a great article in that it brings up the cringe factor that Perez Hilton brings out in most. I think it’s interesting that a lot of gays found him to be so great when he was outing celebrities, breaking the Hollywood Gay Gentlemen’s Agreement. I defy anyone to feel this is an appropriate action to take, imagine being outed by someone you don’t even know at work or to your parents, I’m sure it happens but not like Perez went about it full of only thoughts for himself and his own advancement. He used the gay community to go viral and hurt members of our community along the way. Now he’s going after the mainstream media and he’s getting it with appearances such as his one on Larry King. I don’t want Perez Hilton to be the face of Gay America, he certainly doesn’t speak for me. And maybe what we really need to be doing is not allowing there to be one representative for us, maybe we all need to do our small part to be the face of Gay America. See the video blog here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9gXpd4-soE
Visit my site at http://www.somelikeitscott.com
getreal
@sal: Co-sign mean you completely agree.
donsnyc
@Tim in SF:
Please do not lower our standards by saying that at least Perez is a better representative of us than Jeffrey Dahmer. Let us aim a little higher here, OK?
magdelyn
Perez Hilton is revolting. He affirms for all those against gay marriage the worst about the community. The real question is, how did a fruit-loop who is known for drawing penises on stolen photographs of celebrites, come to be a judge in the first place?
fauxwhore.blogspot.com
sal
@getreal: ohhh,lol..i soooo knew thatttt lol
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Jon:
I NEVER said you were less gay! At all! I just worry..oh…this is frustrating as it should be a long conversation/discussion about the dems/lefts and our willingness to CONTINUE to do nothing because we are being DEMOCRATIC.
@Cam:
You smell of cheese burgers and you’re an asshole! Ha, that’s what people think of Americans…
I don’t know why you guys are putting the ‘gay agenda code’ on me…how am I saying their is ONLY one way????
All I’m saying is that as GAYS we have a responsibility to support and continue the progression for each other!
Case in point:
And this is sooo apt at this time but to cut a long story short, I sent out some academic questionaire to certain people from Ethnic Minorities about the possibilty of starting a thinktank-within my MBA and I also sent it to me older sis a few times who used to work for Goldman S and Citabank. The issue was about creating engaging and thoughtful debate within the UK about race and also so we can form a network to support each other…
She never replied. Ok. Whateves. I know she doesn’t agree.
Oh and the other day, she goes to a high flying job and is taken aside and said, well, you were our best candidate by far but you’re black and that wouldn’t work for our European customers.
Shit right? But maybe she should start fighting and stop lazily seeing both sides??
P.S I’ve told her this..
Bottom line. We’re all in on this. Singular though is destructive and redundant to the person..
But free peace right? I’ll just keep on with the heavy fighting on my back and hopefully ya’ll will all reap..reap…reap!
The Gay Numbers
Raymond
Because he can be intellectual about my rights since it’s not his rights at stake. i am not interested in allies who are unwilling to forgo decorum in favor of pushing for my rights. Sorry. Just not going to happen.
The Gay Numbers
Ver:
If this were a situation in which the government was denying her speech rights, then you may have a point. Because it’s not, you are raising one of those red herrings that people who don’t know or care to understand siutations like to raise.
razz
why is he a bad reflection of the gay community? what do we expect? to be accepted by str8 folks, we must always be good little boys and girls and put a smile to our face and mute ourselves?
diversity occurs even within our community. perez shows that, like str8 folks, we have our own obnoxious, loud mouth people who is willing to be very verbal about their plight. the str8 folks got rush limbaugh, we got perez. it’s the universe’s way of evening things out 🙂
strumpetwindsock
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Be that as it may (and you are right) don’t say that to a Canadian. Most are quite obsessed with the things that make us different from Americans.
As individuals we are very similar in most ways, but our cultures have significant differences.
You need only look at the role of religion in public life. Most Americans running for high office couldn’t get elected without being seen going to church and praising god.
Invoking God is practically the kiss of death for a politician up here. Our latest prime minister (who is a closet evangelical) started off saying “God Bless Canada” but he does not any more. It’s not that Canadians aren’t religious, but mixing it with politics tends to creep Canadians out. It just doesn’t sound right.
Also, even our furthest right party would be considered socialists down in the states. Not that our PM isn’t a hard-right capitalist; if he could rule like GW Bush he would, but you can’t get away with shit like that up here.
And we’re more fiscally conservative; our strict banking regulations are probably the only thing that has saved us from the troubles in Germany, the U.S. and other places. Frankly if we weren’t living right next to the U.S. we’d be a lot better off financially.
And of course there’s the gun thing they have down there, and the notion that they’re the most free and democratic country in the worlds. We ARE smug in Canada, but at least we know there are other places in the world which do some things better.
The Gay Numbers
ps- on this topic- Vernon speaks for me. I want honest felt emotions over polite “it’s just an issue amongst other issues” framing.
Chitown Kev
@razz:
yeah, that’s kinda my feeling. We have more than enough room for the “establishment looking types” and the “bitchy queens” and all points in between. Although calling Ms. Praline a bitch and a cunt was out of bounds…
strumpetwindsock
@strumpetwindsock:
…living next to the U.S. and catching the fallout from their economic crisis, I mean. Most of the time it’s a mutually advantageous relationship, though I think our governments should be doing more deals with the EU and pacific rim.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@strumpetwindsock:
I do agree with all you’ve said which is very, very similar to the Brits.
There isn’t a major deal about people who are underage by..what one or two years (15) dating older people…my school was soo crazy for that and we were a middle class private school!
If you said you were religous in the UK AND wanted to stand…ditto.
I do realise that….you’re more similar to the UK and also with regards to race and some hypocrisy..
But it was a SMUG comment. And like you said kiwi’s and Austrailians or the Brits with Welsh/Scotland..
Franco
He’s just not that smart, and he contradicts himself all the time. It’s typical that he would be famous.
Perez always defends his website by stating that he can take as much as he gives. What a justification for being famous by photoshopping semen stains on celebrity faces. I’m glad that he feels alright with shoveling shit to mass audience.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
Also, when were we told Japhy was gone…?? I KNEW I could see a difference! God I’m dumb!
http://twitter.com/japhy79
allancsn
I think the kids OK better a voice than none at all.
getreal
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Funny I totally imagined him differently.
Alec
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Hmmmm….is the site safe?
sal
@razz: lol,that was funny,me like
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@getreal:
Really? Oh..
@Alec:
Heh, yeah!
sal
@Franco: heres a thought,if ya dont like perez,dont look at his website omg woooowwww….there are millions (who hate him and like or love him)who of free will go on his website,that’s what gives him the power you hate him for havin..dont hate him hate the tons of straight people who feed on it..and if you have a problem with perez why aint ya hating on youtube too for all the homophobia it allows (the popular use of gay slurs as insults)??
Tim in SF
@Straight-n-narrow babe: “He is not a problem for the gay community because does not represent the gay community.”
No, he may not be an elected representative, but unfortunately, it is the extreme minority that gets noticed. I recognize that he is no more a “typical” gay man than Tammy Faye Bakker is or was a “typical” Christian woman. My point was that the fallout of his actions has given Carrie has way more exposure and platform than she would have had as Miss USA.
And my contention is that the bigots will take whatever opportunity is offered to bash us gays, collectively. I sincerely doubt that one stupid twit calling another stupid twit names (bitch, cunt, etc.) is going to last in the news cycle for more than a week or two. So how is there “fallout”? What fallout? Show me some. If you have any evidence that this argument between two fake blondes has the earth-shattering relevance you seem to think, please share it.
Tim in SF
@vernonvanderbilt:
POTD.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Tim in SF:
What??
POTD?
Please I’m being serious, I only know lol, stfu and wtf…
I’m in my late twenties so forgive me! 🙂
JOn
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): John, John, John, it is not a question of NOT doing anything but HOW you do it.
Yes, it is easier for us up here for many of the reasons that strumpetwindsock points out… we are lucky and thank the higher being for that. IT’s not about me being smug about it, that would be ohhh so un-canadian afterall. I just would like to see a higher road taken where the debate is open respectful honest and inclusive…. someone has to take the initiative to start that debate. Yes, you live in an overly religous society, accept that and start your debate with that in mind… you don’T have to agree with them but do respect their right to believe what they do… teach them the errors of their ways so to speak but do so from an intellectual perspecitve and not by storming thier places of worship – that will not broaden your base at all in your context. It will be a slow process but slow and steady wins the race. Burning religous texts does not.
Tim in SF
@donsnyc: Please do not lower our standards by saying that at least Perez is a better representative of us than Jeffrey Dahmer. Let us aim a little higher here, OK?
Take a reading comprehension class, OK Don?
I said:
“Perez Hilton is no more representative of the gay community than Jefferey Dahmer. Or Gore Vidal, for that matter.”
And that’s true enough, don’t you think?
Tim in SF
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): Also, when were we told Japhy was gone…?? I KNEW I could see a difference! God I’m dumb!
When did that happen? I missed it completely. WTF for?
Tim in SF
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
What?? POTD?
Please I’m being serious, I only know lol, stfu and wtf…
I’m in my late twenties so forgive me! 🙂
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=POTD
–Tim
PS: I’ll be 40 this summer. Your age is no impediment. Google is the great equalizer.
Confused
@Brian Miller: I just don’t see how her answer was that bigoted. She stated that she thought it was a great thing about her country that people could choose. Despite the fact that we only can choose in a few states, making her factually incorrect, her answer clearly states that she thinks it is a good thing to have the choice. She does go on to say that she personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and whatnot, but thats her opinion, and she’s entitled to it.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
oh, when and why did that happen?
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Tim in SF:
I just literally found out from noticing on the side thta Japhy isn’t there or Japhy…BUT it was random…
WTF?
Who knows….
Money?
@Tim in SF:
Blurgh!
strumpetwindsock
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Here, urbandictionary.com is a good resource:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POTD
I would have thought you under-30s would have an advantage over us over-40s
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
I don’t know!
I felt there was a major difference in what Queerty was saying..and no names at the end of articles…so I Just googled..
But I liked him..
Lucky Luke
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Ja´hy says in his twitter he’s unemployed… this blog is way better now that it was before he came onboard.. too bad.
Straight-n-narrow babe
@Tim in SF:
“And my contention is that the bigots will take whatever opportunity is offered to bash us gays, collectively.”
So, I’m just wondering, when Ted Haggard was outed, do you suppose any “bigots” bashed Christian hypocrites, collectively? Or is it only bigotry when it is in opposition to your beliefs and lifestyle choice? And I’m also curious as to how someone disagreeing with you constitutes “bashing.”
And re the fallout issue – if you can’t see what has already gone on and is going on, I really can’t say anything to enlighten you.
Alec
@Confused: Her response was close to incoherent. Later, however, she confirmed her view that homosexuality was a “choice” and a “behavior that develops over time.” http://wockner.blogspot.com/
So what she meant is, same-sex marriage should be prohibited. And by “choose” I think she meant voters.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@strumpetwindsock:
Oh my god, that’s so cool!
But I do feel I have more in common with Gen X, then Gen y….
james
I would like to remind everyone that the people who finally fought back for gay rights were the drag queens of Stonewall… I find it reprehensible and self-loathing that so many people on this and every other gay site seem to think that all we need is some straight-looking and acting person to be our representative… you have the right to not like Perez but at least he’s doing more than the so-called heroes of the gay celebrity community (TR, Lance, Rosie etc)… it’s time to take a page from the African American handbook and realize that the time for being nice is gone. Equality for all, etiquette be damned.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Yeah, I like Japhy too. I refuse to believe this is past tense.
Adam Sank
My problem with Perez is not that he’s bitchy, not that he’s flamboyant, and not that he trades in gossip and scandal. My problem is that he is extremely unintelligent and inarticulate and as such a very poor spokesperson for our community.
Had he (or the countless other brain-dead pundits covering the story) thoughtfully critiqued Miss California’s answer, they would have objected not to the fact that she’s against same sex marriage, but that she apparently thinks it’s already legal nationwide.
Here’s the first part of what she said verbatim:
“I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage…”
Um, no, we don’t.
But I watched Perez on countless news shows following the controversy, and he failed to make this point over and over again. Beyond calling her a bitch and remarking on how “offensive” her answer was, he made no coherent argument as to why her answer was actually WRONG.
Beyond that, he seems to lack even a rudimentary knowledge of English langauge and grammar. All in all, not someone I want speaking on my behalf.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
meaning, of course, I am sure he will pop up somewhere.
mb00
I don’t approve of any website dedicated solely to spreading gossip about celebs. I believe celebs deserve privacy just as much as I do. So for that reason, I don’t personally care for Perez Hilton.
That being said, I think he did a great thing for the gay community. I’ve always thought that by being quiet and not saying doing much about the hate that is directed towards us, has always been a bit of a step back towards our full rights.
I’m glad Perez did what he did. Because it not only opened up the flow of dialogue about gay rights and equality on his website, but it also prompted many other sources as well, including other Ms. America contestants who are supportive of gay marriage. If people take these women seriously, then think about the impact that a “Ms. whatever state she maybe” will have on her followers when she says that she is for gay marriage.
He may be physically repulsive and completely self-centered, but the one thing he does have is BALLS!!!
He’s got the balls to take it all the way without pussying out.
And for that, I thank and applaud him.
vernonvanderbilt
@Tim in SF: Thanks for the shoutout. I’m glad someone appreciated what I had to say on the subject.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev</a
But HE said so!
http://twitter.com/japhy79
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
Yeah, he’s really tied up and he obv didnt leave that well…
🙁
DJ
Is he really THAT relevant?
AS13
@Jason
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s time to bash the fuckers back!!!
Iamsickofidiots
@Topher:
Are you flipping nuts? Most of you people need to come down from your spaceships! Moral high road? Where is the morality in calling someone the names he called Miss California? That is a TOTAL lack of morals. #1: Hilton should never have been allowed to ask that question. #2: Hilton should have weighed the consequences of getting an answer that he might not like. #3: If he didn’t like the answer – which we all know too well that he didn’t – he should have just kept his mouth shut and been respectful of another persons opinion and their right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!! Try googling Freedom of Speech, you might learn a thing or two.
The problem with people like you is that you want EVERYBODY to think and feel that your lifestyle is okey dokey. And if we don’t you viciously attack, calling names, etc. You want freedom to live your lifestyle, you want freedom to marry, or whatever, but you do not want to extend those same freedoms to other people. For your information, the biggest portion of U.S. citizens really don’t give a shit if you are gay or not, it is only when you try to stomp on OUR RIGHTS that we get ticked.
You are all so hopeless, you need to find your own continent to live one where you can rule YOUR way and give no one else freedoms. Oh wait, hang in there, with the “Messiah” in charge that will be here soon.
Don’t bother replying to this as this is the one and only time I will ever be on this site…..there will be no checking back to see what you morons are slamming me about. The only reason I ended up here was research. Yup, learned all I needed to know.
Tim in SF
@Straight-n-narrow babe: So, I’m just wondering, when Ted Haggard was outed, do you suppose any “bigots” bashed Christian hypocrites, collectively?
Sorry, I don’t understand your question.
As far as I know, Ted Haggard is not gay. He has been reported to have engaged in some man-on-man action, but he remains married and steadfastly claims to be one of you breeders.
He’s one of yours, not one of ours.
Or is it only bigotry when it is in opposition to your beliefs and lifestyle choice?
My “lifestyle choice?”
What, you have a “life” and I have a “life style”
What kind of shit is that?
And “choice?” WTF?
And I’m also curious as to how someone disagreeing with you constitutes “bashing.”
Wow, reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?
I said: “And my contention is that the bigots will take whatever opportunity is offered to bash us gays, collectively.”
Bigots have offered endless examples of finding just about any opportunity to bash us. Do you really not see this?
I said (in the same post you quoted) :
I sincerely doubt that one stupid twit calling another stupid twit names (bitch, cunt, etc.) is going to last in the news cycle for more than a week or two. So how is there “fallout”? What fallout? Show me some. If you have any evidence that this argument between two fake blondes has the earth-shattering relevance you seem to think, please share it.
SO WHERE IS IT? PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
And re the fallout issue – if you can’t see what has already gone on and is going on, I really can’t say anything to enlighten you.
You mean with everything that has “already gone one and is going on”, you can’t use the google to find EVEN ONE LINK?
Look, you’re entitled to your opinion. But if you’re unable to back up even one claim, then how am I supposed to take you seriously?
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
no I get that, it’s just that he’s really talented and I am sure he wiil wind up on his feet and get another gig somewhere….
getreal
@Iamsickofidiots: It does not take one right away from straight people for the government to give full rights to gays and lesbians. If this were the 1950’s you would be yelling about how those darn negroes want “special rights”. You are relic.
The Gay Numbers
Getreal:
Bit of historical correct. The bigots did not start using the special rights argument until the late 70s and 80s when it became clear they had lost the overt battle over racism. So, they went underground.
What we are seeing now is the same thing with gays. We are at the 70s/80s point that AAs were at. Meaning, people are starting to realize they can not be overt bigots as much as they have been. Yes, they will stills ay as they did in the 70s bigoted things “a la Archie Bunker” but you can see we are right on the edge of a massive shift.
Thus, you will see a lot more of this “polite” bigotry. In a way, I am trying to prepare the more stupid along this thread for that shift. I predict in a few years it will become increasingly difficult for someone like even a Ms California to spout her brand of bigotry. It will go even further underground in language.
The reason why is that more and more people will denounce the bigotry for what it is.
The irony of some of these people posting along this thread is that they are no diffrent that the black apologists that have existed through out the civil rights era. Indeed, as I remember, it was a head of the Southern Baptists who routinely attacked Martin Luther King jr although the southern baptist leader himself was black. I maybe mistaken about who it was. But the overall historical analogy indeed happened.
There was a lot who kept saying what are you trying to make waves. That’s where the whole talented 10 (that the 10 percent of the population would raise up the 90 percent) because of their special status in the AA community. Think of it as trickle down for the black folk.
My point is nothing being said along this thread is new. Nor is it new to see bigots slowly change their language. This is why I am a fan of keeping as much social pressure on the bigots as possible. We have historical analogies that in fact its this strategy that pushes the envelop such that the bigots become more and more ashamed and go underground.
The biggest mistake we could make is to not push the envelope. But, like I said, even if we do, it will mean that the bigotry will be come more and more polite. that’s why I advocate things like ENDA because these are the tools that they right are gearing up to use against us.
Alec
@Iamsickofidiots: What makes you guys google for “gay” anyway, if you don’t care, as you claim? Just curious.
Well actually, that’s not quite true. I mean, I’ll settle for a critical mass of a majority, like 60-70%, who think I should have the same rights they do, mostly as insurance that I get those rights instead of having them stripped at the ballot box or in legislatures. Turns out the more you talk about it, the more relaxed people get, and the easier it becomes for us. As with anything else.
If the majority doesn’t care, why did twelve states have sodomy laws on their books when Lawrence was decided? Why is gay used as a term of abuse? Why is it socially acceptable to be “opposed” to homosexuality but not, say, left handedness or other benign characteristics? Why are ALL gay people (or at least “homosexual activists,” in the more nuanced hate screeds) criticized for the same shit that tons of straight people do?
I mean, let’s face it, this is pretty much what gay people want: To be able to do the things that straight people take for granted. I’ve lived around and worked with plenty of people who don’t accept the fact that I’m attracted to other men. Whatever. I can live with racism, sexism and all sorts of bigotry. I’d certainly prefer acceptance, but yeah, tolerance is fine.
So what’s your excuse?
Don’t bother replying to this as this is the one and only time I will ever be on this site…..there will be no checking back to see what you morons are slamming me about.
I doubt it. What brought you here, morning goods or gratuitous skin?
The Gay Numbers
getreal
Some quick examples of why pushing envelop matters:
Prop 8 passed by 55 percent, but 22 the prior anti-gay bill passed by 10 points higher.
Just today, i found this:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/10650/gary-randalls-new-marriage-poll-puts-a-stake-through-his-referndum-heart
In WA, there has been a 10 point shift in 2 years.
In NY state, there has been a shfit of several percentage points.
The point is that these issues only shift with as much spotlight on the bigotry as possible, but the result is that the bigotry will go increasingly underground. I am still awaiting the development of the code words.
The Gay Numbers
Alec
Yeah, how do they find this site if they were not interested in the topic? It’s a bit odd. It’s like we are not suppose to know they are going around trolling sites.
Tim in SF
RE: Iamsickofidiots
Do not feed the trolls.
Ignore them and they will go away.
Alec
@Tim in SF: Meh, this isn’t DailyKos or HuffPo. They almost never delete comments. Just planting seeds of doubt for others who might read that comment.
@The Gay Numbers: Prop 8 actually passed by 52.24%, one of the lowest pass rates for the bigot amendments out there. And I’m pretty confident a more restrictive measure repealing domestic partnership rights would have failed.
As for the idiotic statements of Iamnsickofidiots (like me), who the hell knows? I’m assuming he’s here strictly for morning goods.
getreal
@The Gay Numbers: As someone who worked on the no on Prop 8 camapgin and now works on the repeal Prop 8 campaign I’m sure why based on my posts you are telling me that. I have said on many threads that I support Perez posting the question and the dialogue that it has caused.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Since you bring up the Southern Baptists, I am checking out their web site. Look at this shit…and this isn’t even talking about their own institutions.
“Discrimination against gays and lesbians is proper, in the areas of:
employment.
to protect the (presumably heterosexual) “family.”
to protect other social institutions.”
In 10 years, no, they won’t be able to get away with this. I hope.
getreal
@Tim in SF: Actually I think people who come on here spouting misinformation deserve to be educated. Just because they have a difference of opinion does not make them trolls. Unless they are full on homophobes they need to understand how damaging and un-American their views are. They won’t do that until people dialogue with them. Just my opinion.
Alex Sarmiento
I’m not really a Perez Hilton fan. However, I do think that he is right on the money where Carrie Prejean is concerned. I consider myself politically liberal/progressive, even though I follow beauty pageants almost religiously. I am saddened that Carrie chose the Miss USA pageant to express her religious bigotry, as well as her intelligence shortcomings (who in their right mind would say “I think I believe”?). However, I’m not surprised. The top beauty pageant contestants in this country come from neo-conservative backgrounds. They tend to act like their “pigs don’t sweat, shit don’t stink, and the South shall rise again”, to quote from a funny greeting card that I saw once in San Francisco. I wonder what would happen if a liberal beauty pageant contestant (and surely, there HAS to be at least one at Miss USA or Miss America or even Miss Universe) came out in favor of gay marriage and universal health care and a woman’s right to choose in front of the entire world, and was actually eloquent and thoughtful about it. I’m actually not surprised that Carrie Prejean thinks that way; she’s from the most conservative place in the whole of California – San Diego.
paulied
Why should Perez Hilton e held up as indicative of the gay community any more than, say, Paris Hilton would be indicative of the straight community?
Brian Miller
I just don’t see how her answer was that bigoted. She stated that she thought it was a great thing about her country that people could choose. Despite the fact that we only can choose in a few states, making her factually incorrect, her answer clearly states that she thinks it is a good thing to have the choice.
Her bits about “choice” weren’t related to choosing being able to get married or not.
It was about Americans having the “choice” to allow marriage equality or not.
In a separate interview with Rex Wockner later, she declared she believes homosexuality is a choice.
She’s too ditzy to really understand the issue (or smart about it and playing ditzy). The righties, however, have locked on to her as a new touchstone because she’s superficially attractive and certainly has more cultural currency and physical presence than, say, Maggie Gallagher.
Kyle
As a young gay man I would rather spend time with Carrie. Carrie and I have differences in opinions on GLBT issues, but I respect her for her honesty. I have no respect for Perez. He represents the worst of humanity and seems to be the kind of guy who would throw his own mother on the tracks to get money or attention.
The Gay Numbers
Getreal
I am not sure you understand my post considering your reaction to it. Which was about how bigotry happens and a general conversationa bout that. Wheather you worked for prop 8 or not seems irrelevant to discussing soft bigotry.
The Gay Numbers
Chitown
There is already dissent in the ranks about this regarding gays. Like with other faiths the ability sustain the bigotry will become increasingly harder. The problem is that I think it will not mattre in some states that do not have a tradition of advocating equality. For those states, I think federal action will be required just like it was with race.
The Gay Numbers
Kyle is another troll. By the way, during prop 8 several of these kinds of posts come be found peppering various sites that christian right groups monitor. Several groups admit as much. I suppose the point is to create a counter narrative.
getreal
@The Gay Numbers: I meant that since we seemed to be in agreement why were you pointing your post to me specifically I was trying to come off rude. Since you were spouting stats about the Prop 8 campaign it is very apropos to mention that I worked for it.
Tony
The problem is we have no national gay rights leaders who are highly visible and effective speakers. We need a national leader…our Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton…I’m sorry but the HRC and Joe Solomonese just don’t cut it….so there’s a void and people like Perez are the only ones right now filling it. Maybe Gov Paterson could be recruited to speak up more for us. He’s the only national name so far that’s made a splash. Our current gay leaders…SUCK !!
getreal
Oops not trying to come off as rude just trying to open up the dialogue to discuss Prop 8.
Michael (from atlanta)
Ugh Perez kills me…
getreal
You have to admit he looks pretty cute now.
The Gay Numbers
Get real
I have no idea what you are talking about. The stats were discussed in regards to how homophobes are shifting to soft bigory as evidenced by the them losing ground with hard bigotry. Why again does your working for prop 8 matter regarding soft bigotry? You know what- never mind. Some of you are just nuts, and I find talking to you exhausting. There was nothing beligerant about my frst commen ts to you. They were adding to them trying to have a conversation with you about how bigotry is shifting. Instead, I get attitude.I don’t care to figure out why anymore because in context it has little to do with what I have written or said to you.
The Gay Numbers
ditto what Tony said.
getreal
@The Gay Numbers: I have no idea why we were fighting I pretty much agree with you on every point you have made so far.
getreal
I think there are a lot of great new gay leaders they just don’t have a national forum. It would be nice if one of these new leaders leaders would break on the national stage.
Gogetitgirl
Gay Numbers, why is it that the minute anyone says anything you disagree with you label them a “troll”? Grow up. You are no better than Perez Hilton. People have a right to speak their mind and just because you don’t agree there is no need to get offensive and start calling people names.
The Gay Numbers
Since I have only labeled 3 people a troll in my entire time being on this site- and yes, I can remember because it’s only been 3 times- the last post by what is amusing. Next you willb e asking me when did I stop beating my wife.
Toby2009
Thank you GoGetitGirl!! You said what I was thinking about some of these posters. They want the freedom to speak their minds, but screw anyone else who has an opinion. As for the troll comment it seems like Gay Numbers is more likely a troll than those he calls names. He obviously doesn’t have much a life other than staying online all day and posting comments every 10 minutes. He needs to get a life!
Back to the topic at hand…I think Perez Hilton was a chunky gay kid who got picked on and he grew up to be a bully himself. The “friends” that he has who are celebs only hang with him so that he won’t attack them. Better to keep your enemies by your side. The celebs who don’t want anything to do with him get attacked over and over.
Hmmm, now that I think about it maybe Perez and Gay Numbers went to the same school of hard knocks seeing that both like to bully people.
The Gay Numbers
hint: changing your screen name does not convince anyone that you are not trolls.
sal
@Toby2009: what’s the point of you being here?your mind is made up to hate gay people,point taken.
niles
Miss USA Pageant should be thanking its lucky stars that anyone is even talking about this moribund affair. As for Perez, he certainly has the right to be a crusader if he wants. At least he knows how to get publicity and keep folks interested – not like the snooze-inducing talking heads we normally see. I’m not a fan, but I admit the guy’s got big balls.
rogue dandelion
I don’t want Perez as a spokesperson for our community, but the majority of comments on this thread reflect pretty poorly on our community as well. It is surprising how many people here are so comfortable with bigotry. That is also far more disgraceful than being an inarticulate and obnoxious loudmouth.
@Toby2009: apparently you judge people by their weight. Which makes you much better than the people you are criticizing, these so called “bullies.”
sal
@Toby2009: what’s the point of stalking a gay website?is it like a wet dream of yours to think of all of us sayin “oh wise toby,you have turned us all straight”..that aint gonna happen, miss cali has freedom to say as she pleases(but let that freedom not be used to spread hate ) thanks to a constitution that also gives all peaceful citizens equal rights,even if they are a minority….it aint her country or the white mans country(history of racism)or a christian country(separation of church and state)
vernonvanderbilt
@Toby2009: Considering that Gay Numbers has been posting here for quite a while now (at least before I started hanging around about six months ago or so) I don’t think it’s accurate to toss the troll moniker in that direction. However, I can’t say I recall ever seeing you or your little friend Gogetitgirl around here before. Oh! And look! The two of you pop up, talk out of your asses a bit, call some names, and disappear (likely forever) much like the dozens of other trolls I’ve seen since I came here.
If you’re going to troll, at least make an attempt at being clever. Hell, maybe making sense would be a nice baby step for you. We can only hope you and your ilk don’t make a habit of hanging around here, lest someone mistake you for homos yourselves. I know I wouldn’t want your kind associated with my peeps.
Jon Jon
They are both douche bags of the highest order, two narcissistic opportunistic infections feeding off one and other. But come on. She started this when she chirped, “No offense,” and went on to basically say she thinks all gays are less worthy than she is to pursue their rights. Then she tries to hide behind “family” and “religion” and “tradition.” She is a full-blown bigot and hypocrite. Too bad we didn’t have someone with a bit more couth there to defend us, but at least we had SOMEONE there to defend us.
TANK
All these nasty comments about Perez Hilton is just laughable. Say whatever you want, the man gets what the man wants, and in the final analysis, that’s what matters. Further, the depth of your criticisms expresses a dearth of substance more than it reflects poorly on him.
Robert, NYC
@Straight-n-narrow babe:
So ours is a “lifestyle choice?” I’m in agreement with Tim in SF. Since when did YOU get to choose your sexual orientation? If anything is a choice in this argument, its religion. Nobody comes into this world religious, its learned behavior, people are taught to hate and become intolerant and religion is the major culprit for all the ills in this world, just look at the wars going on for starters. How dare you denigrate our lives by calling it a lifestyle and a choice. You know absolutely NOTHING about sexual orientation. Your life is no better or superior to ours. If ours is a choice “babe”, provide the evidence that a 101% straight male or woman can become gay by choice. Document the evidence for us please and also provide the published scientific research to back up your contention. Do you really think we would “choose” to be gay knowing all of the discrimination, hatred and prejudice we have to endure at the asinine comments handed us by Ms. Airhead Prejean and her fellow religious cultists and society at large? Your ignorance is astounding! I suppose in your world, its ok for straights to bash us with impunity even if they’re wrong and we’re supposed to sit back and take it? Get real! Hilton asked a legitimate question, nobody asked Prejean for her religious beliefs to justify her response, let alone her ignorance.
Jaroslaw
#256 Chitown Kev – re: the Southern Baptists allowing discrimination – fine, do that among your own but STOP TAKING TAX MONEY. American United fights them all the time – Baptist homes for children etc and most of their other charities take TONS of tax money and then they (to be fair we’ll say allegedly but I know its true!) don’t allow the children/young adults to go to any other services except theirs.
What’s new, I guess………..
ousslander
he’s a hypocrite for coming after prejean but giving obama a pass for the same stand. Kind of takes away any moral authority and outrage he had.
Robert, NYC
@ousslander:
Perez Hilton, like him or not, asked a perfectly legitimate question to which she either had to answer…”no I don’t believe in it” or “yes I do”. NOBODY asked her to go off on a rant about her religious beliefs to justify her disagreement.
The hypocrisy in all this is that Prejean, a student of the bible, should not have been a contestant because according to her bible, flaunting one’s beauty and flesh before single and married men is prohibited. She can’t have it both ways. Live by the book you believe in, or don’t. She and others like her need to quit the cherry-picking of verses, they are all so transparent and dumb. I think the bleach in her hair has gone to her brain assuming she has one.
Cam
@strumpetwindsock: you said “…living next to the U.S. and catching the fallout from their economic crisis, I mean.”
______________________________________________________________
Look, I’m in no way minimizing the idiocy of some of our investment banks. But don’t think that just because we are south of the boarder in the U.S. we don’t know about the economic hole Canada had dug itself into. Your wonderful country (Said non-ironically) had become somewhat of a third world economy. Making most of it’s income by exporting raw materials rather than manufactured goods or services. Lumber, Wheat, Oil etc… so of course when the rest of the world stops buying as much, or when oil prices go down you are going to take a hit. the U.S. should have torn into our banks ages ago and Canada should have diversified their economy more. So blame the U.S. for everything if you want but that really is taking the easy way out.
Paul
At the risk of piling on, I suggest we can have our civil cake and eat our Perez too.
In other words, think back to the civil rights struggles of the Sixties. History has chosen to remember Martin Luther King, Jr., in part because we want to put a positive, peaceful spin on things. But don’t tell me that Malcolm X and some scary Black Panthers didn’t help push things along as well.
There will be more intelligent, more rational, and more persuasive voices out there than Perez. But having an advocate with a large audience and a big (if uncouth) mouth, isn’t exactly hurting us.
DavidfrankRay
BEAUTY QUEEN, GOSSIP QUEEN…MOVING ON!
strumpetwindsock
@Cam:
I don’t want to take this thread off on a tangent, but do a bit of research before you go calling us “third world”.
The fact is I live in one of the few places in the world (Saskatchewan) which is still in a budget surplus and a relative economic boom (though we have been pulled down by commodity prices and our adjacent economies). My house is still worth three times what I paid for it five years ago.
In the first place I was referring to your most recent financial crisis. Normally we have a decent symbiotic relationship. I’m sure if we turned off the gas and oil taps and cut the power grid you might even notice enough although you guys do have a habit of using your muscle to break our trade agreements.
Your statement that you should have “torn into our banks” shows the worst of American chauvanism and arrogance. Surely you are aware that your government has been doing its damndest to muscle in on our economy, regulatory policy, copyright and patent regimes and social policy from day one. You’d love to have our health care system dismantled, our public utilities, insurers, and our wheat board broken up. And when you can’t compete with our cutting and processing lumber more efficiently you break trade agreements and try to slap tarrifs on us and often you get away with it because you are 10 times our size.
Guess what? there’s a border between us and you, thank God, so you don’t get to decide everything that happens up here. Otherwise we’d have a $10,000 (and counting) per capita federal debt, be up to our asses in Iraq with you, and we wouldn’t have marriage equality.
(plus I wouldn’t have had that wonderful vacation in Cuba last year)
Sorry if it sounds like I am gloating (I am not) but maybe you should look after your own house before you talk about invading mine.
TANK
Invade canada? Why? We haven’t run out of maple syrup yet.
Straight-n-narrow babe
So, back to the original question – yes, he’s a problem; yes, most people understand that while he may fantasize that he is a spokesperson for the gay community, he is not; idiots can come in any type of packaging; and there is still no such thing as bad publicity, so both sides win, I guess.
And now, I think I will go do something important, like maybe a bikini wax.
strumpetwindsock
@Cam:
My apologies.
I just saw your post on a screen with better resolution, and I saw you wrote “our” and not “your”. While you might want to re-check the “third world” assumption (we do have a longer life expectancy than the U.S., after all), I am sorry I flew off the handle and mistook you for one of your compatriots who try to treat us like your 51st state.
@TANK:
Now if only you could make a decent industrial beer.
HeteroDefenseLeague
We in the JMCMCH Community (Jewish, Muslim, Christian Moral Conservative Heterosexual” and PLWTV’s (people living with traditional values) community are tired of you homosexual bigots bashing, harassing terrorizing and taking away our civil rights. Leave us JMCMCH’s alone!
HeteroDefenseLeague
Kirk and Madsen’s psy-ops homosexual agenda manifesto instructs homosexual bigots to claim they “were born that way” so they are “not morally blameworthy”, so nice try you ignorant, hate mongering homosexual Christian bashers .
I LEARNED heterosexual behaviors from growing up amongst normal people. For all the statistical education you homosexual bigots have experienced, you would have thought by no you would have figured out you aren’t going to find any ovaries in there.
Do you think heroin addicts, bug chasers, gifters and homosexuals who like to abuse “crystal meth, oh, sorry, I didn’t sue homosexual code words for it like “tina” all woke up one day and decided to be….(insert your chosen perverse behavior here). I guess nail biters were born that way too then, same goes for pedophiles, necrophiles, coprophiles, bigamists, polygamists, etc, because they all didn’t just wake up one day and decide to be/choose….blah blah blah….
getreal
@HeteroDefenseLeague: We already have a pet crazy fundamentalist here his name is Bill Perdue our dog house only fits one we don’t have room for you here so run along Fido no one wants to throw you a bone.
Fumo
Did anyone ever get anything worth having by whispering their demands?
I don’t agree with most of Perez’s tactics, he’s crass and embarrassing at times, but he’s one of the only out and proud gays in mainstream media with a megaphone to his mouth speaking loudly and clearly for those of us who have no voice.
When it comes to the conversation of basic human rights and acceptance there is no room to be demure and passive. We need positive energy, intelligence and tact if we hope to attain the things we deserve.
+fumo.
Joe Q
He is now removed from my twitter, facebook and myspace accounts, I have had enough of his drama. Hell I can handle bigotry better than I can his “all about him” drama.
Ray Randell
What a wonderful article. I’m so glad you wrote it. I too want my gay representatives to be as innocuous and inoffensive as possible.
They should speak timidly and do their best to never offend straight people while they go begging to those in power for some shred of basic equal human rights.
After all, the quiet, respectful, straight-acting gay activists who have all appeared on Larry King in the last decade have done *such* a great job of securing marriage rights for all gay Americans so far. They did a fantastic job in fighting Prop 8 in California by laying low and carefully avoiding offending the delicate sensibilities of the straight majority.
How dare Perez – with his loud, obnoxious personality, ever-present celebrity, his HUGE online following of mostly young, open-minded straight blog readers and his instant access to CNN and other media outlets – think that he could possibly bring any awareness to the hypocrisy of religious-based bigotry?
I wish flamboyant highly-visible gay people like Perez would just shut-up and go sit at the back of the bus so that they would stop being such a problem for the rest of us cowardly gays.
Yikes!
Aw SNAP! Seems Perez Hilton showed his claws after asking the 21-year-old Miss California Carrie Prejean, the Miss America contestant the question about same-sex marriage and didn’t get the answer he wanted.
He asked what her ‘opinion’ was on the matter, asking if she thought the US should follow in the footsteps after the four states that now have legalized same-sex marriage.
Carrie said, ”Well, I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage.’
She continued: ‘And you know what, in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.
‘No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be – between a man and a woman. Thank you very much.’
Having Perez’s rainbow feathers ruffled not hearing what he wanted to hear, he called her a ” dumb bitch”. He went on to describe her as having ‘half a brain’ and said he would have stormed onto the stage and ripped off her tiara if she had won.
It seems Perez will swoop down on any prey if he doesn’t like what he sees or hears and will rant and post ridiculous and childish scribbles on their picture just to show how infantile he is. It’s typical ‘Perez-snobbery-shtick’.
Although maybe Carrie Prejean should have won, because I’m sure there would been a welcomed cat fight between these two girls fighting for that tiara.
Although I don’t think the self proclaimed Queen that Perez is would’ve looked as good as Carrie in that tiara, although I’m sure if he ripped that tiara out of her hands, it would have been more befitting of him wearing that tiara crowning himself as not the “Queen of Media”, but the ‘Queen of Mean’, after his distasteful and disrespectful remarks.
A title well deserved!
Pragmatist
@The Gay Numbers:
Hi, TGN.
You wrote: “If I see one more retarded posting saying that one can not believe in marriage equality and still not be a bigot, I will scream. Look- the key word is EQUALITY. When you write that one can believe in rights, but then write that they do not believe in marriage equality, you sound historically and politically ignorant about your own country. That’s what bothers me more than anything.”
Well, I’m not so sure the word “equality” is sufficient to make your case. After all, the law doesn’t (and can’t) treat everyone equally in all respects at all times. Otherwise, the law would be a very small body indeed. 🙂
As I had mentioned on one of the other threads, there are equality-based rights that I believe in which you either don’t believe in, or don’t think are important enough to discuss. That doesn’t mean you’re a bigot, though. It just means your value system doesn’t place much emphasis on the affected interests, or that it places great emphasis on countervailing interests. *shrug*
Yikes!
Japhy, I think you’re putting Perez in a league that obvisously his high heels will never fill. He’s a screaming queen about his own agenda, and that is to spark controversy for his own gain. He voices his contempt for celebrity, yet celebrates it on his website. It’s hypocricy at every turn with him.
To be clear, he is not a voice for the gay community, nor is he a real contributor to anything constructive towards advancing gay rights. If he were to step up and advocate such, we would hear and see it much more on his site and shows that he visits.
I wrote my two cents worth on my blog because I was just sick of seeing him sling his crap in the faces of those he feels isn’t worthy of his morally corrupt judgement. I would feel ashamed in fact if he were to champion our (gay) efforts as he’s is a lowest common denominator as a media voice, and doesn’t represent the majority of those gay men and women who are actually making an impact for gay rights.
Let’s all realize Perez Hilton has his place, and that place is smearing celebrity with his drivel and contriteness that without it I’m sure this world surely would not miss, or at least won’t be missed by those who don’t follow him and actually have something relevant to say and give to this world, unlike Perez (Paris) Hilton and his celebrity-wanna-be followers.
getreal
I think that people forget that as an entertainer (of sorts) Perez get an entree into places that a gay rights activists would not necessarily be welcome like for instance the Miss USA pageant. He has millions of teenagers everyday coming to his site so he is a voice of equality and we know how homophobic schools can be like him or hate him he is bring this issue to some people who are not necessarily hearing about it and I think that is commendable.
HeteroDefenseLeague
You homosexual lying bigots don’t want “equality” which is what Kirk and Madsen’s psy-ops propaganda manifesto instructs you to claim, you want official government endorsement of your perverse chosen lifestyle, and you want to criminalize opposition cleverly disguised and cloaked as “anti-discrimination” the theme Homosexual Agenda schemers Kirk and Madsen said to use.
Your own publications admit it, you lying, homosexist, fascist, ignorant hate mongering bigots.
You want government endorsement, and you want to try to force society to endorse you all for the same reason why you stole from, threatened, lied and terrorized the American Psychological Association to remove homosexuality form their DSM list so you could claim another propaganda victory and market that 3 decades later.
That is exactly why in countries where it is legal for two homosexual perverts to “marry”, 96% CHOOSE not to! Why get “married” when one of the defining characteristics of chosen homosexuality is rampant, rampaging multiple anonymous partner promiscuity? Maybe you should tell normal readers (heterosexual) what topping, bottoming, felching, fisting, footing, tina, twink, chicken, chickenhawk, bug chasing, gifting, pig, barebacking, breeding, cum pig, bears, leathermen, bathouses, and “gloryholes” are?
HeteroDefenseLeague
Want some more examples of how bigoted, perverse, lying, hate mongering, ignorant fascist heterosexual rights depriving homosexuals have taken over schools with homosexual recruitment and pedophilia propaganda materials crated by the extremist pedophilia group GLSEN are being forced down childrens throats withotu aprentla consent or notification?!
District gags 14-year-olds after ‘gay’ indoctrination
‘Confidentiality’ promise requires students ‘not to tell their parents’
Officials at Deerfield High School in Deerfield, Ill., have ordered their 14-year-old freshman class into a “gay” indoctrination seminar, after having them sign a confidentiality agreement promising not to tell their parents.
“This is unbelievable,” said Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues for Concerned Women for America. “It’s not enough that students at Deerfield High are being exposed to improper and offensive material relative to unhealthy and high-risk homosexual behavior, but they’ve essentially been told by teachers to lie to their parents about it.”
In what CWA called a “shocking and brazen act of government abuse of parental rights,” the school’s officials required the 14-year-olds to attend a “Gay Straight Alliance Network” panel discussion led by “gay” and “lesbian” upperclassmen during a “freshman advisory” class which “secretively featured inappropriate discussions of a sexual nature in promotion of high-risk homosexual behaviors.”
“This goes to the heart of the homosexual agenda,” Barber said. “The professional propagandists in the ‘gay-rights’ lobby know the method all too well. If you can maintain control of undeveloped and impressionable youth and spoon-feed them misinformation, lies and half-truths about dangerous, disordered and extremely risky behaviors, then you can control the future and ensure that those behaviors are not only fully accepted, but celebrated.”
He said not only is forcing students to be exposed to the pro-homosexual propaganda bad enough, but then school officials further required that students sign the “confidentiality agreement” through which they promised not to tell anyone – including their own parents – about the seminar.
Barber said that also aligns with the goals of the disinformation campaign being run by those in the pro-homosexual camp. “That’s what homosexual activists from GSA are attempting to do, and that’s what DHS is clearly up to as well.”
The situation, according to district Supt. George Fornero, was partly “a mistake.”
He told CWA, the nation’s largest public policy women’s organization, that requiring children to sign the confidentiality agreement wasn’t right and the district would be honest with parents in the future about such seminars. But CWA noted that even after the district was caught, parents still were being told they were not welcome to be at the “freshman advisory” and they were not allowed to have access to materials used in compiling the activist curriculum.
Barber noted the damage being done is significant.
“Until DHS and other government schools across the country are made to stop promoting the homosexual agenda, kids will continue to be exposed to – and encouraged to participate in – a lifestyle that places them at high risk for life-threatening disease, depression and spiritual despair,” he said.
In Massachusetts after a school repeatedly advocated for the homosexual lifestyle to students in elementary grades, several parents sued, only to have the federal judge order the “gay” agenda taught to the Christians.
The conclusion from U.S. District Judge Mark L. Wolf found that it is reasonable, indeed there is an obligation, for public schools to teach young children to accept and endorse homosexuality.
Wolf essentially adopted the reasoning in a brief submitted by a number of homosexual-advocacy groups, who said “the rights of religious freedom and parental control over the upbringing of children … would undermine teaching and learning…”
David and Tonia Parker and Joseph and Robin Wirthlin, who have children of school age in Lexington, Mass., brought the lawsuit. They alleged district officials and staff at Estabrook Elementary School violated state law and civil rights by indoctrinating their children about a lifestyle they, as Christians, teach is immoral.
“Wolf’s ruling is every parent’s nightmare. It goes to extraordinary lengths to legitimize and reinforce the ‘right’ (and even the duty) of schools to normalize homosexual behavior to even the youngest of children,” said a statement from the pro-family group Mass Resistance.
An appeal of that decision is pending.
The judge concluded that even allowing Christians to withdraw their children from classes or portions of classes where their religious beliefs were being violated wasn’t a reasonable expectation.
“An exodus from class when issues of homosexuality or same-sex marriage are to be discussed could send the message that gays, lesbians, and the children of same-sex parents are inferior and, therefore, have a damaging effect on those students,” he opined.
“Under the Constitution public schools are entitled to teach anything that is reasonably related to the goals of preparing students to become engaged and productive citizens in our democracy,” the judge wrote. “Diversity is a hallmark of our nation. It is increasingly evident that our diversity includes differences in sexual orientation.”
And, he said, since history “includes instances of … official discrimination against gays and lesbians … it is reasonable for public educators to teach elementary school students … different sexual orientations.”
If they disagree, “the Parkers and Wirthlins may send their children to a private school …[or] may also educate their children at home,” the judge said.
vernonvanderbilt
@HeteroDefenseLeague: I’m game.
Topping – a guy puttting his peepee in the other guy’s doodyhole
Bottoming – a guy letting another guy put his peepee in his doodyhole
Felching – licking and sucking semen out of someone’s doodyhole
Fisting – what the fuck to you think it is?
Footing – Not sure on that one…something to do with feet, I presume? Maybe you know.
Tina – Pretty sure that’s a nickname for crystal methamphetamine.
Twink – a young gay male in the 18-22 range, usually with very little body hair, generally quite skinny
Chicken – as far as I know, it’s pretty much the same as twink
Chickenhawk – a non-“chicken” gay guy who prefers to partner up with “chicken” or “twink” types
Bug chasing – no clue…that’s a new one for me.
Gifting – Still no clue. I think you’re making some of these up, maybe?
Pig – Isn’t that a guy who likes to receive multiple ejaculations from multiple partners?
Barebacking – sex without condoms
Breeding – I think that’s when a guy has his pleasure time inside another guy’s doodyhole
Cum pig – same as pig, I would presume
Bears – Middle-aged and older gay men who typically have a larger build and plenty of body hair
Leathermen – guys who like to wear leather? Leather fetishists, perhaps?
Bathhouses – places where people go to bathe, visit saunas, and sometimes engage in consensual sexual activity with other patrons
Gloryholes – holes cut into a partition, usually a bathroom stall, for the purposes of facilitating anonymous sexual encounters between two individuals
Anything else you need to know? Anyone want to fill in the ones I didn’t know?
You’re welcome, twat.
anderson cooper is my future husband
I think Heteroleague guy is Bill Perdue does anyone notice they never post at at the same time and have the same crazy long long posts about the same exact same things only opposite. Someone posted a few days ago that heteroleague reads like a joke or an exaggeration of a homophobe not like a real person. I totally see it tonight after reading one Bill’s crazy posts on another thread. I read on another thread it is Bill Perdue impersonating a bigot. Compare they’re posts it is totally the same guy. It is the same over the top hateful drivel. Ever notice how Bill Perdue goes after gays who don’ agree with him but somehow this Bill O’Reilly wannabe gets a pass? They are the same guy anyone who doubts it compare their posts even their paragraph and sentence structure are the same.
vernonvanderbilt
@anderson cooper is my future husband: Even if it is a joke, it’s a mighty amusing one. I don’t care who he is. He’s spicy. 😀
anderson cooper is my future husband
@vernonvanderbilt: He is Bill and you are killing the joke by making a fool of him keep it up your are a great comedian. Doddyhole hilarious 🙂
vernonvanderbilt
@anderson cooper is my future husband: Aw shucks…I does what I can. 🙂
Pragmatist
@HeteroDefenseLeague: Woah. News flash, dude — you’re telling us the Concerned Women for America have objections to the “homosexual agenda”?
Thanks for that valuable information!
Ousslander
@Robert, NYC: i have no prpblem with him asking the question or being a gay cartoon. Yes she may be a hypocrite in the eyes of her god or whoever. I have problem with him going after her but giving a pass to obama. A bigot is a bigot no matter why side of the aisle they fall on. Dems are always giving a pass even when they parrot the far right. How does that make sense n how is that not hypocrisy?
HeteroDefenseLeague
Noti e how homosexual pedophiles and their sympathizers refer to “twinks” as someone 18-22″ or whatever? CONVENIENTLY stating 18 or over? Gee, “no body hair” ? Sort of like, a little boy then?
Just admit the rampant pedophilia that is such an integral part of the homosexual community.
Perverts……
Laura
I say good for Perez. Now the conservatives can get a taste of their own medicine. We’ve been listening to people like Rush Limbaugh for years. I wouldn’t have expected anything less from Perez…he’s just like Rush Limbaugh and I don’t want to hear either of their nastiness. Anybody who would subject themselves to being judged by Perez gets what they deserve. Why should Perez change his style and become a politically correct gay activist for the sake of Miss USA? Nobody is asking Rush to tone it down.
Nickadoo
@vernonvanderbilt: “Bug chasing – no clue…that’s a new one for me.
Gifting – Still no clue. I think you’re making some of these up, maybe?”
Bug chasing is actually an HIV- person seeking to be infected by an HIV+ partner.
Gifting, I actually had to look up, as I’d never heard that one. It’s an HIV+ person seeking an HIV- person to infect.
Both are terribly sad.
vernonvanderbilt
@Nickadoo: Thanks. I sort of suspected those definitions, but didn’t want to speak on it while unsure. Your’e right, those are terribly sad. I’m sure they’re also quite rare, thank goodness, considering I’d never even heard the terms before, and I have heard an awful lot over the years.
@HeteroDefenseLeague: Well, to be clear, I didn’t come up with the definition. It’s been around a lot longer than I have. Furthermore, if you think that’s what all gay guys want, take a look at Morning Goods (again) sometime when they have a “twinky” type model and read all the complaints about it. Are you just vexed because the twink types won’t pay any attention to you? Don’t worry, they don’t look at me either. Sometimes it’s better that way.
HeteroDefenseLeague
Vernonvanderbilt, using straw arguments to blow down was alway seen as the intellectual equivalent to throwing in the towel in debate class.
Perez is a typical hate mongering, Christian bashing, heterophobic, bigoted, intolerant, mean spirited, fascist, ignorant, terroristic, hetero civil rights violating, homosexual bully.
atdleft
@HeteroDefenseLeague: Shut up.
http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/PedoMyth.html
ADMIN: Please ban this @HeteroDefenseLeague psycho troll ASAP. Thanks.
HeteroDefenseLeague
I spend all my time thinking about having sex with men the only thing that helps is coming to this website and arguing with them. I need a boyfriend.
vernonvanderbilt
@HeteroDefenseLeague: That’s the beautiful part, Bunny…I’m not even trying to argue with you. All you have to offer is bigotry enshrouded in lies, with a solid core of ludicrous melodrama to spice it up. I only argue with people when it’s productive and/or interesting. You, I just enjoy making fun of, sweetie.
P.S. I hope it’s not the sex from the other night getting you cranky, because I assure you, it wasn’t my fault. You’re just not that good. Oh, and you owe me $40 for dry cleaning.
Robert, NYC
@Ousslander:
I strongly agree that Obama is a hypocrite, he’s made that quite clear in his opposition to marriage equality. A lot of gays feel as I do about that. I only voted for him to get the fascist Bush/Cheney regime out of office, nothing more, but when push came to shove, I figured he’s the least of the two evils given that McCain was his opposition. I also think Biden is another hypocrite.
Robert, NYC
@atdleft:
Actually, a computer savvy geek could easily track down his ISP address and do some real damage….there must be at least one person posting here who is capable of that. Its also possible to track where someone lives from an ISP address. He seems to be addicted to this site, I wonder why?
Don’t pay any attention to his crime statistics. He’s excluding the overhwelming number of hetero pedophiles and other straight sex abusers (the majority of rapists in jail are straight) that per capita commit far more crimes than the gay or bisexual molester. Just like the bogus ex-gay statistics, pathetic closet cases like this one skew the information to promomte their own agenda. All a bunch of psychopathic liars with a lot of sexual hangups and repression.
Robert, NYC
Isn’t it amazing how Heterodefenseleague comes here spewing all manner of vituperatives against LGBT people, mostly all lies anyway and has the audacity to accuse us of “christian” bashing? Hmmmmmmmmm, sounds like he’s no christian when he’s resorting to name calling and libelous accusations. He’s the first to cast stones, what a moron!
Robert, NYC
@vernonvanderbilt:
Vernon, I don’t think you need to have bothered listing all those activities. I’m sure Heterodefenseleague engages in many of them, excessively. He doesn’t need an explanation, he lives a closeted sad life reading the bible every night before bedtime. Seems though he hasn’t learned anything from it with all the libelous and often vicious accusations that his book of fairy tales forbids, some christian he’s turned out to be, but then most of the religious cultists are hypocrites anyway. We enable him by responding, lets all ignore him, he’ll soon get tired when nobody responds to his nonsense.
vernonvanderbilt
@Robert, NYC: Of course I didn’t have to, but he asked, and I’m very accomodating. 😛
In all seriousness, I gave up the definitions because I didn’t think there was anything shameful in there (aside from the bug chasing/gifting stuff, which is more sad than anything) and I figured the best way to take the wind out of his sails was to call his bluff. He only asked for the information because he thought we’d all be too ashamed and meek to give it. I’m sure he already knew what those terms meant, which only goes to show you that the homophobe knows more about gay sex than I do, and I’ve been out and about for a decade now.
Robert, NYC
@vernonvanderbilt:
Hi Vernon, I’m sure if he went to hetero swingers clubs he’d find similar activity going on there. He sounds a bit like closet case, can’t stay away from gay venues for research sake Peter LaBarbara of the Americans For Truth organization who travels the country visiting various gay clubs and other venues on a regular basis observing and probably getting off on gay sexual acts. He then claims he uses it as evidence to promote an antigay agenda. He has a huge collection of gay porn that he’s never discarded and from what I’ve learned, the collection is growing. Odd how he conveniently ignores all of the straight porn and swingers clubs that you would think a self-righteous religious hypocrite would concern himself with before singling out us for villification. He has a huge collection of gay porn that he claims he uses solely to point out tho his supporters how bad we are. Their collective doublestandard speaks volumes doesn’t it. Notice how they all claim to be christians? I daresay Heterodefenseleague has a vast collection too.
vernonvanderbilt
@Robert, NYC: That was actually another reason I freely offered the definitions, that very few of them are really “homo-exclusive” practices. Maybe I’ve tended to associate with more sexually progressive folks in my time, but I know plenty of “straight” people who, if they haven’t tried some of those things, probably would at some point.
I’m pleased you pointed out the “research” justification a lot of the ‘phobes like to use. That’s not something many folks are really aware of. These alleged “people” are often guilty of trying to infiltrate our community for the purposes of spreading misinformation and generally undermining what little shred of communal spirit we have. If HDL isn’t a joke (I’m still undecided, but leaning toward seriousness) I wouldn’t be shocked in the least to find out he has a collection to rival anyone’s.
Chalk it up to the allure of the forbidden. It’s a basic facet of human nature, going back to Pandora and beyond, that we are always “curious” about things we’re not supposed to be. If we cannot handle that curiosity, we feel shame, we internalize it, and it becomes hatred and fear. We lash out at the very thing that attracts us. This is why, for lack of a better word, abstinence is unhealthy at best, destructive at worst. Abstinence breeds compulsion. That might be the most valuable idea Anton LaVey gave us.
HeteroDefenseLeague
Look at all the Christianphobes bullying and bashing me, along with vile sexual harassment…..or posters posting user my screen name…
What part of ” I am not religious” do you ignorant bashers not get? I guess you are so enraged with spewing your bigot hate and filthy lies at Christians that you overlook the fact that I a not religious at all.
HeteroDefenseLeague
The homosexual bigots are feverishly and virulently at work trying to take away the civil rights of parents and brainwash and recruit children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrZJpt-tGxI
vernonvanderbilt
@HeteroDefenseLeague: You know what I like about you, Hettie? Every time you show up here, you strengthen the bonds between the rest of us. I’ve seen instances where people who aren’t even particularly fond of one another (to put it mildly) have come together in opposition to you. I see what you’re doing now, and I thank you for it. You’re inspiring camaraderie and friendship, seeking to unite us, in spite of our differences, in order to approach a new, united reality, and to create a fresh sense of community among LGBT people worldwide. You may just be a saint.
P.S. We’re still on for tonight, right? I got the stuff you asked for, but I’m still not clear on what you need the diapers for. I hope you don’t plan on making a mess again.
P.P.S. I only have sex with you out of pity, just so you know.
Robert, NYC
@vernonvanderbilt:
Vernon, totally concur with that.
Robert, NYC
@HeteroDefenseLeague:
Hi closet case, if you’re not religious, then why do you defend christians the majority of whom are hypocrites and bigots just like you? You’re so inconsistent but not that good of a liar either. You bring up the “christian” word in almost every rant you make here. Who are you kidding? You’re an idiot, a fucked up one at that.
Robert, NYC
Heterodefenseleague, read the Kathryn Conroy article regarding pedophilia and heteros.
http://www.politicalsoundoff.com/home/philadelphia-inquirer-blows-open-another-catholic-sexual-coverup.html
Rob Moore
@Michael: Absolutely right. Dan will take on anyone with intelligent responses and questions without flinching or coming off as a comic strip character. The fact he and his partner are fathers to a little boy brings with it added credibility.
Rob Moore
@HeteroDefenseLeague: Hon, I am 54 and still waiting for my first chest hair. Does that mean you think I might be a twink with wrinkles? That just makes me want to giggle mindlessly.
vernonvanderbilt
@Rob Moore: Wouldn’t those be called twinkles?
Robert, NYC
@HeteroDefenseLeague:
Heterodefenseleague, there you go again, using “christian” this or that…you ARE religious otherwise it wouldn’t bother you and you wouldn’t keep raising the “christian bashing” nonsense. You’re such a psychopathic liar, a total fraud.
Jane
I really wish he would stop using such gendered insults … bitch and cunt are both slurs specifically used against women. I couldn’t care less about him in general, but I do wish his insults against Carrie Prejean were more about her bigotry and inability to compose a great sentence or logical defense, and less indicative of her gender. “Dumb bitch” has very specific sexist connotations.