Are you a gay guy who feels like he doesn’t “fit in” with other gay guys?
Do you find society expects you to act a certain way, then gives you shit when you don’t make the mark?
Is the struggle of the “masculine gay man” really a thing, or does it simply reflect the limitations our internalized gender roles?
To these guys on Whisper, it’s definitely a thing.
We’re not so sure about some of them, though:
jag4313
It’s sad that the majority of the people in my life assume, because I’m gay, that I like to dress in drag. Sorry, that’s not for me. People are so close-minded. And I feel that I am not flamboyant nor masculine. I’m an even middle. And so many people compare me to Jack from Will and Grace. I just don’t get that. My boyfriend and I are equals (personality wise) but everyone thinks because he’s older, he’s the masculine one and I’m the feminine one. I hate people.
Xzamilio
Yeah, I remember telling many of my friends that I was gay, and while only one suspected it, the rest of them said I didn’t “act gay.” I used to get asked to go shopping, talk about girl stuff as if I was their girlfriend, and the whole time I’m thinking, “Bitch, I don’t care about Taj not paying attention to you when you guys are making your ugly pottery that you think looks good in MY apartment as a gift.” And on top of that, you get condescending titles like “straight acting” that work as both pejorative and douchy self-proclaimed gay guys who want to separate themselves from “those gays.” Now, I feel a good mix of fem and masc, or just me, and what the fuck ever… I can watch a marathon of Real Housewives and then turn back to ESPN or TNT to watch the GS Warriors put an ass-whooping on Houston.
Giancarlo85
@jag4313: So feminine gay men dress in drag? You’re not doing yourself any favors. I’m sorry to say.
And I’m feminine, but I like watching football (soccer as Americans call it), hiking and other stuff. Just because I’m feminine doesn’t mean I dress in drag or anything.
I’m not directing the following to you… but to others.
I can’t stand gay men who say they don’t “act gay” and they are “straight acting”. Stop trying to justify your closeted self to me. Then these self serving douches attack feminine gay men because they feel as if they are being misrepresented. If you feel that way, go out there and do something. Get out of your closets and show how brave you are. I see feminine gay men as more confident, empowering and far more brave than these so called “straight acting MASC4MASC)” gay men.
1898
The name of the app should be changed from Whisper to Whine.
Arcamenel
To answer the question of the article, no it isn’t.
Kieran
Truth be known, the time honored and media promoted image of the swishy, limp-wristed, weak, effeminate homosexual has probably done more to keep men who either are or lean gay/bisexual in the closet than anything else. I know it’s not politically correct to point that out, but it certainly something that should be discussed. When the majority of people think “gay man” they all too often conjure up a drag queen or Richard Simmons prancing around a stage, rather than an image of say, Rock Hudson, or Robbie Rogers, or Ricky Martin. Not that there’s anything wrong with being effeminate and swishy of course, but it shouldn’t be the predominant and prevailing image for gay men.
Giancarlo85
@Kieran: Oh so effeminate gay men are weak? And yes, this is something that should be discussed. Effeminate gay men have done more for the LGBT community in advancing rights and changing minds than these “masc” gay men.
And I can’t believe you named Ricky Martin as an example of someone who isn’t effeminate. Come on now.
Dev.C
OMG I hate this topic because it’s so immature and superficial. I’ve been told by many of my straight friends and family members that they didn’t think I was gay because I don’t act gay, although I found that slightly offensive I just realized that they were ignorant. It seems that many gay men (specifically young gay men) are ignorant about what homosexuality is too, if they think that they are limited in gay interaction because they don’t know shit about Will and Grace or Barbara Streisand.
Pick-up a book about gay history go outside and meet people not all gay men are fashion queens and broadway certified.
Plenty of gay men feminine and Masculine, like sports, watch action movies and enjoy outdoor activities.
I think these guys experiences with other gay men is just too far to one end of the social spectrum, gay men are people too, just like women, and because you are either doesn’t mean you are conditioned to only behave and interact a certain way.
Glücklich
I like not fitting on to one end of the masc/fem spectrum or the other. Sweating where on the continuum you or anyone else falls sounds like a big waste of time. Does dressing well and wearing jewelry make me a fag? Or does building my parents’ backyard fences and decks make me butch? I know enjoying getting dicked in the mouth and eating ass ratchets up the fag quotient. But maybe out-earning my husband 10 to 1 and having a dozen direct reports compensates for that. Some people can tell right off I’m gay and some people have no idea. So long as I have the respect of my colleagues and people continue to do as I say I don’t really care how butch or nellie anyone thinks I am. I’ve been told more often than not I’m passable as straight because I’m intimidating and stern. I’ve even been asked by clients if I was in the military. But I also love lavishing attention on my husband, trying to make his life as worry-free as possible so he can focus on his artwork, and making him the center of attention when we’re together so I probably would have made a good wife.
Seems like a needless bit of drama to whip up.
AtticusBennett
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2012/06/straight-is-not-compliment.html
no, it’s not really a thing. the “Struggle” is only this – they don’t want to be gay. they don’t want to be associated with “those gays” that the straight people in their life mocked and denigrated. they’re not ANY different from any other gay people, other than they continue to HOPE that people can’t tell that they’re gay, then pretend it’s a problem.
ask yourself this: do you want people to be able to know that you’re gay? to be able to identify you as gay? if not – realize why.
AtticusBennett
here’s an idea – stop living your life each day worrying about how the anti-gay straight people you’re surrounded by may choose to think about you. that’s what all “those gays” you’re complaining about do. newsflash – they’re a million times happier than you.
Glücklich
Oh and that whisper about wishing one wasn’t gay? Nope. Very happy to be a gay man. I am quite happy loving men AS ANOTHER MAN. I think my life and experiences have been WAY more interesting and unusual BECAUSE I’m gay.
And another bit of wisdom I learned from a lesbian boss I was fortunate to have early, early in my career: No one at work ever made my sexuality an issue but if someone doesn’t like it, too bad. I’m the boss.
Giancarlo85
@AtticusBennett: That’s exactly true. They always complain about being misrepresented too. I just find it eye rolling. These are the same types who piggy back on the movement and do nothing to help.
Paul Nadolski
I have always felt like I don’t “fit in” with the gay community because I’m not really into “gay” things. I don’t go to the gym. I greatly dislike gay bars (this is also due to my being socially awkward). I don’t have Grindr or any other gay dating/hookup apps on my mobile devices. And I don’t gush over divas (incidentally mine is Katharine Hepburn). However, I do like railfanning (train watching) and LOVE ice hockey (Go Blackhawks!). I would much rather watch a hockey game or a soccer match than Project Runway or Drag Race (though I will admit to enjoying drag, and I will also admit that I tried it in grad school). Now, I have nothing against more effeminate or stereotypically gay guys, in fact I was seriously in love with one for some time! But it really has been difficult for me to find a place in the gay community where I truly feel welcome and like I belong. If such a place exists in Chicago or Minneapolis, I have yet to find it…
Cagnazzo82
@AtticusBennett: This is only good advice depending on where you live. Some places following through with that advice will make your life a living hell.
That being said, I hate the term ‘straight-acting’ because first off, it’s not an act. Secondly the flamboyant nature of gay ‘culture’ does just about as much to confuse gay people as it does promoting an image that gay people latch onto presuming all gay people are like that.
I would wager that the vast, vast majority of gays and bisexuals have little in common with wanting to dress in drag or wear skimpy outfits to clubs/parades. But at the same time it’s necessary combining LGBTQ (etc…) for political purposes, and preservation of rights. So so be it. Life goes on.
Glücklich
@Paul Nadolski:
Aww…railfanning? My mind immediately went to “The Station Agent,” one of my top five faves. I find it hard to believe that even in Chicago (which I know better than MSP) you’re unable to find your niche because you’ve made yourself sound pretty appealing in a few sentences. Dismiss the notion of your niche being the ultimate destination and you might find something better than you’d imagined along the way.
I’ll see your Kate Hepburn and raise you a Lana Turner. “Portrait in Black” baby.
AtticusBennett
LGBT people of all ages are coming out – facing violence, jail time, and death. Meanwhile in north america, grown adult gay men give excuses to NOT COME OUT because, uh, their Bro-Buddies and Families will…uh… “think they listen to Lady Gaga and like fashion”
here’s what the Whisper Boys are missing – it’s not that “they’re not like those other gays” – it’s that they don’t want to be. because “those gays” are denigrated and mocked.
i don’t do drag. but i don’t worry about “people thinking i do drag”. why? because i’m a grown-ass adult, that’s why.
i march with my family in the pride parade every year. every. year.
@Giancarlo85: YES. they complain about “not being represented” then, as we see in here, they give every excuse in the book to NOT REPRESENT THEMSELVES.
here’s some advice, boys: stop worrying about stereotypes. the “gay man who worries about stereotypes” is itself a clueless stereotype.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ju0oHvGSo
Cagnazzo82
@AtticusBennett: “LGBT people of all ages are coming out – facing violence, jail time, and death. Meanwhile in north america, grown adult gay men give excuses to NOT COME OUT because, uh, their Bro-Buddies and Families will…uh… “think they listen to Lady Gaga and like fashion”.
Did you by any chance miss the whisper post a couple days ago on closeted people in the US who live in small towns?
Presuming it’s all about looking good for your ‘bros’ minimizes what some people face coming out… even in America. Take a look at gay youth homelessness for example and look to the root of the problem.
It’s not all about worrying what your ‘bros’ might think if you come out. There can just as well be very serious consequences for coming out… even in America.
@Giancarlo85: My post wasn’t about highlighting stereotypes, but rather simply commenting on how an inaccurate picture is being portrayed to the mass public which isn’t necessarily an accurate depiction… hence stereotype.
Gays are only united with bisexuals and trans and other groups (LGBTQ) for political purposes. But that political union gives the impression there’s a greater cultural bond… when in fact that cultural group within the united political front may just be a subsection of the much, much larger group that goes about living their lives silently or just sticking to their own business.
The only thing we really have in common is that we like men. And even then we don’t all like the same men.
In the straight world there are dozens and dozens, if not hundreds or thousands of sub groups. They all like women, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they all identify with each other.
It’s the same with gays. And just because a gay person doesn’t identify with drag culture (for example) doesn’t mean they’re demeaning or thinking less of drag culture. The two opinions can be mutually exclusive.
I also felt like a fish out of water while at pride parades, but I’m there because I support the cause. Whether I fully identify with everyone at the parade is irrelevant on that level. As a matter of fact, it’s the least relevant aspect of being there.
Giancarlo85
@Cagnazzo82: Thanks for sharing all your stereotypes of feminine and flamboyant gay men. Many on here seem to think flamboyant gay men all wear drag. Isn’t that a stupid stereotype itself?
How about you guys stop being so hypocritical?
“I would wager that the vast, vast majority of gays and bisexuals have little in common with wanting to dress in drag or wear skimpy outfits to clubs/parades.”
Again just bad stereotypes of those who do go to clubs and parades.
rickyboi7
Same here. I don’t have the “stereotypical” interests of dressing in drag, shopping, clubbing…, and I’m not at all effeminate, not on purpose – it’s just who I am. I’ve always hung with my straight guy friends, who all know I’m gay. I have absolutely nothing against those who like to do the ‘gay’ things, like drag, but it’s just not me and never will be. I feel like I don’t fit in with gay guys mostly. I also spent so many years looking for Mr. right that you start to think it’s not a possibility. When I first came out I came out as bi, and had alot of sex with women. It’s true that when you tell girls you’re gay or bi, they see it as a challenge to see if they can bed u or turn u.
level75RDM
People keep saying it’s not a stereotype. But I swear, “Nobody could tell I was gay” and its variants must be one of the Top 10 gay cliches. Up there with “Yaaas!” and “Throwing shade.”
Glücklich
@Paul Nadolski:
It occurs to me if you’re near enough to Chicago, have you spent much time in Madison or Milwaukee? Indy? Take a trip and explore Ann Arbor?
It’s further afield but Cincy has a pretty healthy gay community and it’s a pretty city, too. The old rail terminal is really pretty amazing.
I only realized upon a second reading my earlier comment may have come off as bitchy or sarcastic but I was sincere. An unusual hobby is a plus in my book and what you may think as socially awkward could also be read as introverted or contemplative, two more plusses.
AtticusBennett
@level75RDM: indeed.
“people can’t tell i’m gay!” congrats. you’re basic!
Michael Angelo
It bothers me when clueless people say gays act feminine. There is nothing feminine about a gay guy at least not the way I see it or even act. Why is heteronormative society always trying to define us by their limited binary frame of reference?
AtticusBennett
@Cagnazzo82: your post misses the nuance: how about those gay kids in small conservative towns who CAN’T or WON’T choose to “pass”?
the struggle is not “i’m gay and i’m not like other gay people” it’s “i’m gay and i’m surrounded by anti-gay straight people who mock and denigrate Those Gay People”
you’ve utterly missed the point. as are the Whisperers. their problem is, like i said, not that they’re
“not like other gay people”, but that they don’t want to be, as their ideas of ‘gay people’ are fuelled solely by the pejorative ideas of anti-gay straight people.
they’re not struggling because “they don’t listen to Beyonce” – they’re struggling because they still associate with straight people for whom “gays who listen to beyonce” are somehow worthy of derision.
yes. coming out is hard. this post isn’t about that. this is about those clueless gays who complain about “how hard it is” while doing nothing at all about it.
Steven Publicover
Straight-acting, until you get him on his knees.
Giancarlo85
@Cagnazzo82: You missed the point. You are deploring stereotypes, yet you use stereotypes to describe effeminate gay men (for example, they all wear drag – stereotype).
“when in fact that cultural group within the united political front may just be a subsection of the much, much larger group that goes about living their lives silently or just sticking to their own business.”
Wow. That’s a terrible way to live. Living “silently” and sticking to your own business even as politicians and other leaders try to screw you over legally and economically. I think I know what the problem is in America. People living “silently” and “minding their own business”, while doing nothing to better this country.
Robert Kennedy said it well enough…
“Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total; of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.” – RFK
You ought not to compare gay people with straight people either. And you shouldn’t mock those who are out there and trying to make political and legal progress. Every time, effeminate gay men are the ones out in the fronts pushing for change. Nobody is asking you to like anything we effeminate gay men do, but please don’t demean us and say we’re not real.
By the way, I don’t think you’ve ever been to a pride parade. The last one I went to had firefighters and police also represented. And all sorts of those groups within the LGBT community. For example, API Equality (Asian Pacific Islanders). Pride Parades are about inclusion. Stop looking at just the floats with all the go-go boys, and look at the other groups represented.
Giancarlo85
The one thing that really annoys me I forgot to add… about America in general… is people minding their own and forgetting they live in a country. I just don’t see the collective spirit in this country. This stupid self depreciating attitude really took force during the Reagan years when he went after unions. There is no sense of collective will to improve a situation. Everybody wants to do their own thing and that is why this country is in such a state of political paralysis.
Maybe living silently and minding your own business isn’t the best way to live! Maybe TALKING and CONTRIBUTING to make CHANGE is something that would have done someone like RFK proud.
The LGBT community didn’t get to where they are by being quiet or “living silently”. “Living silently” is a self made prison and a detriment to any democratic nation.
Captain Obvious
Some people won’t be happy until they force every gay man to lisp, be catty, and become a parody of a woman.
What’s the difference from stepping out of one closet of pretending to be someone else and then stepping into a new closet of pretending to be effeminate to the point of parody to fit in with city gays? They don’t want you to be yourself either. They want you to be like the cartoon they’ve become.
Are some guys(gay or straight) effeminate? Yes, of course. But not in the way the over the top city gay man is.
They keep pushing this stupid idea that you aren’t comfortable with yourself if you don’t act like a female. Maybe you actually are masculine, maybe you were raised that way by your dad, and do not have a problem with it. God forbid you like masculinity and want that in a partner. You’re clearly the devil and hate yourself if you like masculinity as much as feminine guys like femininity.
This topic is beyond stupid and way too many self proclaimed effeminate guys try to play the victim like anyone is try to stop them from being who they are by wanting to be with a masculine man.
AtticusBennett
the whole “i’m being forced to be something i’m not” is a lie. it is. it’s a lie boys tell when they still suck up to anti-gay straights, and their fellow lonely-souls on reddit.
nobody is forcing you to do or be anything. and the more you keep lying about it, the more you delay actually having a real enjoyable life.
it’s an evasive lie that boys say before they’re able to just admit that they’re terrified of begin judged the way all their lame-ass friends just “those gays”
but by all means, boys – keep lying. won’t make your life better. won’t make “our” lives worse. you’re essentially drinking poison every day and waiting for it to affect someone else.
Louie Mars
I’ve been accused-by gays- of trying to act straight, and been asked-standing in a gay bar-if i am gay…the stereotypes are real, and even gay culture expects you to act/dress/behave a certain way…
Giancarlo85
@Captain Obvious: Oh it’s Captain Doofus. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, and effeminate gay men are not parodying women. I understand you’re just like Smeds (and probably the same poster), but nobody really gives a shit about your insecurities.
And we effeminate gay men aren’t pretending to be anything. We’re being real. Maybe you could be real for once.
And what the heck do you know about the “over the top city gay man”? You live out in the fucking boondocks. The most you seen of a city was a town with a couple of liquor stores.
Nobody is asking you to act like a female, you self-righteouse little man. But please show some fucking respect to effeminate gay men.
You’re too stupid to even reason with.
James Jackson
The only thing that makes you gay Is who you want to love not what you are doing the rest of the time.
Donald Martin
The “acting” part is the problem — just be yourself.
VampDC
I very much identify with this.
Whats worse is a guy like me who feels like he’s stuck in the middle.
I don’t feel “gay” enough and I don’t feel “straight” enough. I hate when gay guys say “yasss” “work” “honey” and “gurl” but I also don’t say “bro” “dude” and talk about “lifting”.
Stan Schulz
In 2015 I think people usually say masculine. I’m thinking choosing to use the term “straight-acting” for the headline is meant for clicks and controversy. Using the term straight-acting can be based on the assumption that gay men couldn’t possibly be masculine. We’re all feminine, right? The assumption that a comfortably masculine gay male is “acting” is a hostile assumption. Being closeted is a whole other topic. Not ok, no matter how you spin it.
Desert Boy
What is a “stereotypical gay man”?
I’m gay and I love the Patriots, never miss a game. But I also watch ‘Drag Race” on Monday night. I drive an SUV and enjoy car shows. But I also enjoy attending Pride. I love rock and R&B. But I also like dance music.
I think I’m fairly well rounded and it has nothing to do with being gay.
Atomicrob
Sorry, I don’t buy this. Universally, masculiinty is revered, most especially in the gay community. Everyone wants to date someone “masculine” or “straight appearing.” It’s those who don’t quite cut the mustard as stereotypically macho and butch who face discrimination and denigration, EVEN within the LGBT community. The plight of the somewhat effeminate man or even quirky and offbeat artistic types who are ostracized. And, don’t get me started on ageism in the gay community. I simply don’t have much sympathy for this alleged issue.
Blazipitous
Gay dudes are self-righteous fucking assholes and feel offended when a man who claims to like men gets with a woman or doesn’t “come out.”
Who the fuck do you think you are? If you’re so “happy” being out and about, why would you force it onto everyone else? Why should every man you THINK might be gay should come out to stroke your butthurt sanctimonious ego? Fuck off!!!
Bauhaus
The qualities I most admire in a man are sincerity and confidence. Nothing turns me off more than a guy play-acting. That, and pretense. I also find a guy who’s passionate about something (anything) to be very attractive.
Having confidence means being comfortable and happy and not caring about the opinions of others. It means living life on your own terms. What’s the point in coming out, if your gonna continue to care and be controlled by what people think about you? Some of my gay and bi friends spend an inordinate amount of time trying to prove to society and their families that they’re not “that kind of gay”. What a waste of time.
I like both masculinity and femininity in a man. To me, it means he’s not afraid to be himself, that he’s not shutting an entire part of himself off, just because society says guys don’t do certain things. Guys who care about what others think, and adjust their behaviors to please others, haven’t grown-up. They are still scared little boys, whether in or out of the closet.
Giancarlo85
@Blazipitous: Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. Grow the fuck up.
Some of you sound worse than damn christian conservatives!
AtticusBennett
@Captain Obvious: your straw-man arguments are so stupid that you have effectively proved all of the rest of us correct, and utterly perjured yourself.
your comment was so stereotypical – the false boastful claims of an anonymous internet coward.
your problem, of course, is not that you “like masculinity”, but you’re still living in fear of a father who mocked “effeminacy”
and it’s obvious, captain.
Bauhaus
@Bauhaus:
I forgot to include humor as a one of the most attractive qualities in a man.
Avery Alvarez
Let me get out the world’s smallest violin to set the music.
Then get some cheese to go with the whine these guys are serving up.
McShane
@Giancarlo85:
Has anyone ever told you that you sound like a Narcissist with Sociopathic Tendencies? You know, with your infuriating amount of arrogance, pronounced vanity, and a complete lack of compunction. And I do mean, complete lack.
You actively seek to dominate others and “win” at all costs. You hate to lose any argument and will viciously defend your web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.
Your conversation’s show disrespect and callous disregard for others yet you will be overly sensitive and overly defensive if someone even mildly criticizes you.
You believe that your own beliefs and opinions are the absolute authority, and completely disregard the opinions of others.
You seem to have an unshakeable belief that you are smarter, better, or more talented than other people.
You fly into a rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people you consider inferior and unworthy. You have poor behavioral controls and easily express irritability, annoyance, impatience, aggression, and verbal abuse.
You act grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demanding to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements.)
Sansacro
@AtticusBennett: Pretty funny. Next: treat yourself to early Bette and Liza (w a Z), then we can chill to some Velvet Underground, Iggy Pop, and 60’s Mod Rock!
Giancarlo85
@McShane: 3… 2… 1. And here is the hit and run troll. The one with zero social skills and no sense of reason. You seem to be very concerned with what I’m doing.
“Win” what exactly? I put in a defense of feminine gay men and that’s it. There are no web of lies, you self righteous asshole. I speak the truth.
You have shown respect towards me with your insults and ad hominems.. and now this post tops it all.
Have you ever posted in a nice way towards me? Nope. You’ve been an asshole since day one especially considering your political views.
I speak my mind and that’s it. Anyone else can be their own person, but don’t think for a minute I’m going to let some shitbag like you attack me or other feminine gay men because of the way we are.
You have no social skills and on top of that you have some kind of emotional problem. You accuse me of projecting, yet you did that throughout this gem of a post.
Seriously, go fuck yourself. You are not a psychologist and you don’t know anything.
Giancarlo85
“You act grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demanding to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements.)”
Wow. This little shit seems to know a lot about me. What accomplishment did I exaggerate? What talents? What skills and what contacts?
You are the one that is lying. You have no achievements. You are a loser with no life who needs to pass judgments onto others.
Seriously fuck you and fuck your pathetic life. And if I were you, I would remove that picture of you. It’s doing you no justice.
dustashed
I am eternally grateful to the gay men from decades ago who paved the way for the inherent rights that we enjoy today.
I do not mock nor do I think of effeminate gay guys as someone lesser. I must however admit that i do not share a lot of the interests that most of these gay guys do. And therein lies my dilemma, i want to belong to this community but i find myself over and over identifying more with the gamer community over anything else. The problem with that is majority of the gamers in my circle are all straight, and the gay guys i know in my circle doesn’t know the difference between a manamune vs a muramana. They gay gamer circle is so sparse that finding a gaymer to hangout with or let alone date is a pipedream.
Tl;dr
Wants to belong, but can’t find the right crowd
Daniel Alexander Sipe
I am not super masculine but all of my friends are straight males, it does make it more difficult to meet people, but eventually you will find someone that you want to spend your life with.
Giancarlo85
@Giancarlo85: *never shown respect.
Look at it this way, don’t bother replying. You’ve already showed how much of a loser you are. Keep your republican views and self depreciating ways to yourself. I am going to live my own life and I don’t have to justify anything to anyone.
Glücklich
All right all right! I wondered how long it would take before this blew up into big rant-fest between the usual suspects, and you know who you are. Excluding the name-calling, everyone has some valid points to their posts based on their personal experiences and observations. Just leave it at that. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else 100% of the time, but what *does* happen here nearly 100% of the time is the comments turn all ugly among the same half-dozen or so people. Fine, argue the points at hand but try to maintain a sense of decorum.
@AtticusBennett:
Please update that video with you post-swim in a square-cut Speedo. Hubba hubba.
Nathan Bixby
I was once described as “Straight Acting” BUT I dont see it I am me That is it…
AndYouWillDeal
Well, I’m happy that I can do both, camp it out for fun and be really flamboyant or do guy stuff as I have mostly straight friends and we even go to strip clubs together
KidDeadpool511
Some of you guys kill me sitting here talking about the “struggle” and what people are going and went through when all you’re doing is sitting on message board arguing people who you’ll never meet.
AtticusBennett
the only gay men who worry about “Stereotypes” are those who still live in fear of What Straight People Think.
the more homophobic the straight people, the more internalized-homophobia in the gay men who are surrounded by them. this is why this post is filled with guys from small towns.
you’re not “straight-acting”, and it has nothing to do with “masculinity” either. it has everything to do with how you’ve been made to feel resentful about being gay, because “gay things” are denigrated by the straight people you’re continuing to be surrounded by.
and your lives will never get better until you wake up, and stop caring what others think.
if you don’t get on it, you’ll find yourself years from now still complaining on reddit about how you can’t meet other guys like you. because all the other guys like you are doing the same thing – sitting at your computers, complaining about how hard it is to not be like Those Other Gays.
you’re right. those other gays don’t worry what people think. you do. put two and two together.
SonOfKings
These so-called “straight acting” gay guys who feel they “don’t fit the stereotype” need to get over themselves. To the straight world they are still just fags and will never truly be “one of the guys” there.
Ridpathos
@AtticusBennett: Wrong on every count. I’m gay and I’m proud. I tell people I’m gay because they wouldn’t know otherwise. Not that I’m extremely masculine. I just look like your everyday joe, except a bit nerdier.
I don’t care what other people think of me. My propensity to just be who I am, is just that, it’s because of who I am. If I had to act more “feminine” that would be against what I am. I think it’s fine to be feminine, if that’s who you are. That’s not who I am. I find most of the routines women put themselves through for beauty ridiculous and don’t know why anyone would want to follow suit.
Willy Garza
I ignore labels , just be yourself
AtticusBennett
@Ridpathos: no, you’re wrong on every count. i can’t apologize – it’s not my fault your reading comprehension skills are mediocre.
some folks on the street don’t instantly know that i’m gay – my usual attire is combat boots and a studded belt. i’ve got multiple tattoos and piercings. a shaved head. not exactly the sparkly image that non-savvy folks have when they think “Gay”
nobody has said you have to “act more feminine” – anywhere. it’s never happened. do you not realize that you just told me i was “wrong on all counts” and then followed up by rebutting a statement that i, and others, did not actually make?
yeah. exactly.
now, wanna show us what you look like, sound like, and act like? no. didn’t think so.
AtticusBennett
here’s a question: what, specifically, is your “Struggle”?
if it’s “that people can’t tell that you’re gay” , well there’s a really easy way to rectify that. adopt a form of visual iconography. i wear my rainbow bracelet every day – it’s way to let anyone and everyone know.
the deal ends up being this: they complain that “nobody can tell” while at the same time hoping nobody can tell. this is not a problem, at all, for “masculine gay men” – but rather gay men who still struggle with the idea of being identifiable, known, obviously, as gay.
oh well, it’s no use trying to get through to some of you. some are determined to reinforce their own “struggle” because it feels safer. you can complain how hard it is being “so different from other gay people”, yet when you boil it right down your real struggle is not that you’re so different, because your’e not, but that being “different” is actually the only way the straight people in your life that you choose to associate with will tolerate you.
Dita Fitz James
It must be a hassle. Fitting in, not having a terrible time at school, not getting abused in the street, generally going unnoticed. Yes I feel for you!
Ridpathos
@AtticusBennett: “they don’t want to be gay. they don’t want to be associated with “those gays” that the straight people in their life mocked and denigrated. ”
This is what you said. This is what I said was wrong. Just because we don’t act more feminine and people may apply the term “straight-acting” (which is a stupid term) doesn’t mean that we don’t wan to be gay or associated with more feminine gays.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: So just so I’m clear on your position your problem isn’t with “masculine gay man” just the ones you feel hide it while also complaining about not being able to be identified as gay?
Charles Jenkins
Living life acting is a problem.
Pistolo
If I hear another fellow gay lament about other “stereotypical” gays, I’ll go ballistic. First of all, wipe your tears, masc men. Like 90% of the gay porn on the internet is populated fetishized, “straight” rentaboys who are the first to tell you they are sooo not gay (unless their mouth is full of c–ks). If you’re slightly, just slightly stereotypical you’ll often get called out on being *particularly* gay amongst fellow gay men as well. Any chance anyone else gets to be seen as less gay, they let you know. So this whole idea that effeminate men are running the show is projection and delusion. It’s hard for EVERYONE.
Secondly, if you want to find “Mr. Right” (which, if you refer to him as that you’re doomed to die alone anyways), join a damn dating service. Not Grindr, not Scruff, not Tinder, not OKCupid- a dating service. A legitimate one. Promiscuity is kind of a human race-wide thing so get over it and try an manufacture the perfect situation for your prince charming to find you in.
And finally, yes, straight people have expectations of what we should be and that’s the most discouraging aspect of being different from everyone else. We feel as though we’re not good enough or that we aren’t embraced for being individual from just a perception of what gay is supposed to be. But the answer to that is “F–K ‘EM ALL!”, who cares? If you feel misrepresented then SAY IT, represent.
Roger Ian Rosen
Can Queerty just put these guys in touch with one another?
AtticusBennett
@Ridpathos: i get it. you have terrible reading comprehension skills. i, and nobody else, has criticized anyone for “not acting feminine”. at all. it’s not happened.
@TriForceKid1013: “masculine gay men” isn’t even a thing – it’s an amorphous concept that changes from culture to culture, and person to person.
i have never met a perceived-“masculine gay man” who has a problem, in any way, with “effeminacy”, or “gay culture”, or “pop music”, or “drag queens” – that’s exclusively the domain of the Insecure Homosexual – and i don’t liken insecurity with masculinity.
as far as i’m concerned, you can’t call yourself “masculine” and be Closeted. is it really “masculine” to live in fear of what others think? it’s “masculine” to live a lie and hide like a coward? not in my book.
every time a gay men denigrates and complains about ‘feminine gays’ what he’s really doing is telling the world that his daddy makes fun of those types of gays. and he’s still scared of disappointing his daddy.
lauraspencer
@Glücklich:
Well said! Can’t we all just get along? Feminine, Straight Acting, Masculine, Nelly or whatever. Do other minority groups have so much in fighting? How did the Jewish Community became such a powerful group? Even the Evangelicals? They seem to have a common cause that they unite against.
When it comes to LGBT people it seems that we spend so much time arguing with each other than dealing with the real issues. Aren’t we as a group looking to be respected for being different? We don’t want others judging our community if we don’t fit what is viewed as “normal”? Why can’t we then accept that in our own community “one size doesn’t fit all”? Some are feminine…some are masculine…some are religious…some don’t go to church…some are Dems and some are Republicans…some are artists and some are white collar…some are old and some are young…etc. Let’s respect and celebrate that we are different.
And by the way McShane, there is nothing wrong with your photo. If more of us looked like you we would probably would get a lot more dates.
Jim DelRae
Honestly as time goes by I see gay men becoming more Masculine and “straight acting” and straight men acting more gay. I get so confused..
Giancarlo85
@lauraspencer: Of course you would approve of McShane. The guy is a classless troll that comes by every now and then and feels he can pass judgment on what I have done with my life.
The LGBT community doesn’t have cohesion because of people like “masc gay men” who try to say they are different than fem gay men and want nothing to do with them. Those are the divisions that are being created.
“some are Dems and some are Republicans”
Lol. Most are dems, and a few are republicans. I still feel bad for the few who choose to vote against their own interests.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: I wear baggy clothes and don’t listen to pop my preferred choice in music is lyrical hip hop. I’m also one of those people who don’t really like “feminine gays” (I just find them annoying)but it has nothing to do with my father who left when I was 6 but when we reconnected later in life was and is very accepting of me. These things come from who I grew up around and none of them ever bad mouthed or denigrated those (or any) type of gays they just didn’t/don’t act like them. So just because I dont have a rainbow bracelet or wear something and act in a way that will automatically alert people to my gayness does mean I’m ashamed or a coward in your eyes?
Jacob23
Good on these guys for standing up for themselves and not letting others define them. It’s really obvious to anyone who has come out that you very quickly have a role thrust upon you. You are told who the gay icons are and what the best gay movies are and how to express yourself. And most of this acculturation involves a degree of feminizing and celebration of gender-blurring.
I remember one of the first times I hung out with gay guys after coming out and one of the older guys was telling me about gay icons of the past. They were all women. Every last one. Straight women, not even lesbians. And no men. No JFK or Eisenhower or Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee or Jim Thorpe. Instead, one was Judy Garland and the other Marilyn Monroe. So I asked this guy “Why would my being gay mean that I should identify with a deceased straight female actress, especially if I have never seen any of her movies?” The guy says to me “Well, she was very troubled, she didn’t like herself, and she had a difficult history with men. And she died young.” Um, OK, and why the f*ck would I want to identify with that? Why should a gay male youth identify with a troubled woman rather than men of accomplishment and greatness?
That’s one example and there’s many others. Drag, finger-snapping, calling other men “she” etc. Has nothing to do with being attracted to your own sex. It’s like you go to an auto dealer to pick up your car and you find that the dealer has added dozens of unnecessary features and extras that without your consent and then tells you that you can’t buy the car w/o the extras. Well, inevitably there would be a reaction to this sort of thing. The internet has given a voice to that reaction.
Dave Edwards
Be who you feel comfortable being.
AtticusBennett
@TriForceKid1013: no, but your lack of reading comprehension abilities leads me to think life’s gonna be a struggle for you.
“I’m also one of those people who don’t really like “feminine gays” (I just find them annoying)”
nothing “just is” – you’ve been conditioned to find them annoying. and it makes you look like a wimp and idiot.
“So just because I dont have a rainbow bracelet or wear something and act in a way that will automatically alert people to my gayness does mean I’m ashamed or a coward in your eyes?”
I never said anything like that. At all. Again, i pity you for your inability to understand what you read. it’ll mean you live a mediocre life.
@Jacob23: you’re surprised that anti-gay Chuck Norris isn’t a gay icon?
david bowie is a gay icon. ian mckellen is a gay icon. freddie mercury is a gay icon. quentin crisp. harvey fierstein. not to mention harvey milk and his merry band of vanguards.
@Jacob23: the internet has given a voice, a cowardly anonymous insecure voice. yes.
i’m more a punk rock lover myself.
but what’s very telling in the responses in here is either that a lot of you struggle mightily with reading comprehension, or you’re so determined to defend your insecurities that you end up showing us all how little you actually understand them.
“Good for these guys for allowing bigoted straight people to define how they feel about being gay”
these Whisperers can look forward to wasting years of their lives doing nothing but complain about the type of gay men who go out into the world and live real and open lives.
Edu012
Just be yourself, whether masculine or feminine, and own it. I’m a gay masc man and tell people I am gay if they assume I am not. If people ask me why I don;t act gay, I just tell them it is not how I am wired. When I hang out with feminine men, I don’t really care if people assume I am feminine. Be secure enough with your own masculinity or femininity and problems like this won’t exist so much (unless you live in a country where homosexuality is illegal, then that is another issue). Just be happy and spread the love, not the hate. 😛
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: And I don’t really like you either.
@Jacob23: LOL. Who is defining who? Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. These guys are “not standing up for themselves”. They are whining and being cowards.
Celebration of gender-blurring? Are you really this silly? Feminine gay guys are still guys. They aren’t trying to be anyone else, but themselves.
Um, and you talked to one guy about actresses… and what does that mean? What does that have to do with anything being discussed here?
And most feminine gay men don’t do drag. Your analogies about cars are stupid… please stop it. Not impressing anyone. What reaction? One done behind a computer screen. Quite cowardly and not so macho if you ask me.
Giancarlo85
@AtticusBennett: Jacob is just another troll… who has issues with everyone on here. He hates feminine gay men. And he thinks we only identify with female actresses and musicians lol.
I just quoted RFK under this article myself.
Anyways, you really can’t help someone with awful reading comprehension skills.
Edu012
@Edu012: Just checking if this works.
Nico Vasquez
Huh?
Louis
Sighs I am so tired of seeing this over and over and over again especially in this day and age.
Isn’t it enough that the bigots discriminate against us for who we love, our right to marry, adopt a child, and give blood?
There are still states where gays can’t be in the same hospital room as their sick partners are.
It’s bad enough these mentalities exist within the heterosexuals it’s even worse that that kind of prejudiced narrow minded holier then thou sanctimonious attitude exists within this community.
If you are secure within yourself then you would not feel the need to put someone else down in order to feel better about yourself period.
Enough is enough with the derogatory juvenile and archaic attitudes about not fitting a specific stereotype.
Some gay men are into sports that’s great some gay men are into the arts and creativity that’s great as well.
We need to start supporting one another and lifting each other up instead of constantly tearing each other down.
I do however agree with a very similar comment I have made about masculine gay men as well .
This macho bullying superior attitude meant to distance yourselves from other gay men claiming WE embarrass you, make you look bad, or how you are not THAT TYPE or I am nothing like that is childish and insulting plain and simple.
This kind of divisiveness just makes us look bad in the end.
That’s why I sometimes question the concept of the word “community”.
Even this comment will receive derision and ridicule simply because someone has the guts to be truthful.
Roberson Randy
Oh the struggles is real! Has been since it became vogue in the early 90s’.
AtticusBennett
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2013/09/mask-for-masc.html
check out some of the examples here. if you relate to any of them, congrats – you’re not as secure as you want people to think you are.
@Louis: AMEN dude.
it’s one of those things you see on reddit a lot, and from any anonymous folks on gay themed message boards: some closeted guy who deems himself “masc” who blames “fems” for the fact that he can’t, or won’t, Come Out, and that gay people are made fun of. to those guys – it’s not the fault of “fems” that your shi**y friends and father don’t like gay people.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: It seems that the first thing you do is attack people ability to read which shows you have nothing else to come at me with considering you try to make yourself seem smart buy acting like you talk so sophisticated. Also my life is pretty good I’ve been with the same guy for about 12 years now got promoted at my job in under a year and a half and am not really wanting for anything so just because I don’t try to make myself seem superior by putting people down on Queerty doesn’t mean my life is or will be mediocre.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Well I guess it’s good that I don’t know or will ever meet you or else I might actually have to care.
Louis
@AtticusBennett: We have actually met and had negative interactions many times .
However I have grown a lot over the last 3 years and I can honestly say I deeply admire and respect not only your courage but your compassion and commitment to bring a positive change to this world.
I’m just so over it so tired of seeing gay men who believe their masculinity makes them superior and above others who are also gay.
Isn’t it funny how some of us can prove ourselves to be just as bigoted as the heterosexuals can be ?
It’s sad really.
carryonmws
I love how we constantly attack each other… We are just as bad as those who attack us. If we can’t stand together what’s the point? Hey guys I just played tackle football in mascara, now I’m confused, am I masc or fem? So what, what does it matter? Accept your fellow gay for who they are and stop putting each other down. Allow people to be themselves and others will eventually follow.
rikard
there is a lot of nuance to this subject. being out and masculine is a pretty new development. growing up able to express your homosexuality is just starting to happen for a growing generation. in a few generations we may actually discover the natural range for homosexual expression. once we stop opting for the closet and passing for straight, once we make decisions about reproduction and how we plan to build families at pre-puberty stages of development. the luxury we have of living out lives and finding companions at work and church and through family. the important issue now is finding ways to spread out across the landscape without stigmatizing the people who like being fem, or dating a drag or trans person. just because they have had a home in society, or a clique to gather to does not give the “straight acting” a right to dump on others. we all have problems with being outsiders, sometimes from each other.
AtticusBennett
@TriForceKid1013: i’m pointing it out – your reading comprehension skills are so lacking that you’re either misunderstanding what is being written, or are so knee-jerk reactionary that you’re unable to process it.
congrats. you find “feminine” men annoying. thats’ the mark of an insecure man.
Masc Pride
Yes, this is “a thing”. It’s textbook dissociation. Unfortunately, gay has become a bunch of things other than being attracted to the same sex. Society set some of those standards, but the LGBT community has constructed quite a bit of it too. The gay community caters to everything gender-bending and camp. Fems are also everything most heteros EXPECT gay men to be. Masculine guys experience way more isolation, vitriol (usually from within the gay community), misunderstanding and sexual objectification (which I’m actually okay with). Fems always complain about masc privilege, but that really only exists on dating apps (since we all know gays like to play pro-fem…until it’s time to get laid).
@Stan Schulz: Absolutely agree. The term “straight acting” was definitely used to boost views, comments and incite masc-shaming and arguing.
@Giancarlo85: Looks like everyone’s REALLY tired of all your tantrums. I almost feel sorry for you after reading some of these replies you’re getting. Are you okay??
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: Sir it is merely an insecurity .
You feel as if hanging around gay men key word men will make you look weak fragile or like a loser.
You have to really delve deep within yourself to really get to the heart as to why it is you feel this indifference and divisiveness towards gay men you believe are not as masculine as you are.
Personally I’ve always gotten along better with the gay men who are more compassionate warm loving and sensitive.
It’s not meant to stereotype the other guys it’s just that that has been my general experience .
I mean I’ve noticed online a lot if BULLYING and superiority from the gay men that deem themselves superior or higher on the totem pole.
Again merely speaking from general experience.
AtticusBennett
@Masc Pride: but you can’t prove it. “masc pride” = anonymous poster who can’t show himself. that pretty much sums it up.
you’re like those Men’s Rights Activists who got all upset because Max Max Fury Road contained strong elements of female empowerment.
Michael Martinez
You really shouldn’t let other people limit who you are. But straight “Acting” is a load of bull. I could describe myself as a bottom but not a flower, and lots of people would find it rightly offensive. I’m me, take me as I am or not at all. There will always be people who fit the norms of any given group. I find being normal and expected to be boring. So I like football and ballet, and beer and fruity mixed cocktails, that only matters if you’re dating me. But if you keep trying to date a “type” or can only be one way in a relationship, it’s no wonder you’re always alone.
Louis
@Masc Pride: your username is masculine pride so that’s essentially a bias you are speaking from I’m afraid.
It’s also not right to lessen the suffering of others on either side of this community considering neither side deserves discrimination .
Louis
@rikard: you expressed that beautifully and sincerely.
I couldn’t have possibly said that better then you just did.
Kudos.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: Since you seem to be an expert on the matter what exactly makes me insecure? I also don’t like being around black people who would be labeled “n—as” does that make me insecure with my blackness like not want to be around “feminine” gay men makes me with my gayness
iggy6666
@AtticusBennett: @Giancarlo85:
Pssst. Your self obsession is showing. Again………
If atticus isn’t self promoting his youtube videos (the same ones multiple times), falls back to using words like WIMP, COWARD, DADDY ISSUES, BIGOT or implying that without an extensive portfolio of personal social media accounts the notorious ”COWARDS” words have no value.
And then there’s giancarlo. Disagree with this guy and receive a paragraph long rant/whine of insults or be called a troll… Usually as the thread board continues his comments become more and more aggresive and some how end up all about HIM
For people who hate labels you two seem quite concerned with your own.
onthemark
Maybe it would help some of the “masc” guys here to translate “my struggle” into German.
Yep, it’s “Mein Kampf”!
Louis
@Captain Obvious: Smh these men are men they are not women nor females.
What they are however is strong courageous and fighters they are are nit afraid to be who they are in order to pacify the negative rude and narrowminded attitudes of some within this community.
I absolutely adore these individuals I always have these primitive attitudes remind me of how some within this community also mock ridicule and discriminate against lesbians bisexuals and transgenders.
I hope these attitudes evolve before I leave this planet it’s so disheartening as well as disappointing.
Masc Pride
@Louis: I’m speaking from my own experiences as well as the experiences of other guys I know that have related some of the same issues in these Whisper pics. I haven’t lessened anyone’s experience. In fact, it’s actually the tone of this article that is mocking and lessening the experiences of masculine gay and bi men by asking if our struggles are even “a thing” at all.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: But I’m not insecure that’s the point I am trying to make I’m out to everyone at work and all my family and friends. I don’t like being around what people consider “feminine” gay men their attitudes get on my nerves and rub me the wrong way that is my personal experience and the reason why I’d rather not associate myself with them I wasn’t conditioned or have some rooted problems I need to work out and it also doesn’t mean I’m insecure at all. Did I say I don’t like hanging around gay people NO I didn’t. Just because you have a new found respect for him doesn’t mean you are now in the clear to challenge me because we are having an exchange. I have seen comments of his I agree with his view on this an me in particular I don’t.
Greg Fennell
It’s a myth, there is no such thing as a straight acting gay man… News flash!! He’s GAY!!
AtticusBennett
@TriForceKid1013: no, it’s not much of a surprise that you’re as insecure about being black as you are about being gay. it’s pretty common, actually. you don’t like being around what you’ve been conditioned to think are “feminine” gay men. that’s the mark of an insecure homo. secure homos don’t care about where, if at all, one falls on a perceived spectrum of masculinity-femininity. they care about the person. you don’t – you care about “if they’re fems” – because you’re insecure.
“masc pride” is just a troll with no balls. it’s obvious. “i’m so masc i anonymously tell people i’m masc on the internet. cuz that’s so masc of me”
mmmmhmmm, sugar.
@iggy6666: i don’t hate labels. i think they can be very useful.
this topic always brings out the broken insecure boys who still hope to god that one day they’ll be able to convince their shitty families that “they’re still real men” – helpful hint, if you’re worried about people thinking you’re masc then you’re not.
AtticusBennett
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R6jqMysHaA
Louis
@Masc Pride: the point is hate crimes happen to either no matter what.
That’s what I meant and you have to also think of all of these poor LGBT kids who still feel isolated alone rejected and bullied by their parents and their peers.
Schools are still not doing enough to change this for the better for the lgbt students who find it hard enough to coexist as it is in such a troubled unkind world such as this one.
OrchidIslander
@iggy6666: If this site allowed giving a thumbs up to show agreement with comments; I’d give you a million plus 1……
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: Well go read my comment to Louis and then maybe you’ll see why I feel like I do I said it was my personal experiences with those type of gays that make me not like them I am not insecure at all about being black or gay sorry I chose to separate myself from the stereotype of what some people think black men are and talk proper and don’t do or sell drugs or sag my pants. Who the hell am I to not want to be like that? I’ll say this to you now I’m not insecure as I am out to everyone I work with and all my friends and family (you know the people that matter). Also how can you tell me what I’ve been conditioned to think you don’t even know what I consider to be fem. I think you need to get over yourself a bit realize not everyone falls into your preconceived notion of what a game man is or should be.
Masc Pride
@Louis: None of that is really germane to this discussion or anything I’ve said. I never said those things don’t happen. They just have nothing to do with this particular topic.
AtticusBennett
@TriForceKid1013: just because you’re Out doesn’t mean you’re secure about being gay. like the gay republican wimp in the video i posted.
” I think you need to get over yourself a bit realize not everyone falls into your preconceived notion of what a game man is or should be.”
i’m assuming you meant “gay man” – but you’re dead wrong, as per usual. i have no preconceived notions of what a gay man is, or should be. NONE. another prime example of your mediocre reading comprehension skills. i roll with circles of strong and empowered gay men. they don’t see people as “masc” or “fem” – because that’s the domain of the insecure homo.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: your comments come across as superior and intimidating which you are neither.
Secondly I’ve had many conversations with gay men such as yourself and they always respond with an air of superiority and entitlement.
The insensitive and callous basically uncaring attitudes are also ridiculous to me.
It also doesn’t matter that you believe your indifference towards other gay men is nit a problem.
What ultimately matters is your total lack of humility and your false sense of superiority .
What matters more then anything though is the intolerance that you are projecting onto others simply because you deem them less then a man.
I’m sorry but gay men like you always remind me of Glenn Beck rush Limbaugh or Bill o Reilly as in they have the same mentalities and attitudes towards gay men just as gay men like you do.
The only difference is they are open with their intolerance you however pretend as if you don’t have an intolerance yet your judgemental and divisive comment about feminine gay men (your words not mine) says differently in that regard.
Dale Landefeld
have never changed anything during the coming-out process.
Louis
@Masc Pride: they still matter and they still make a valid point as to the “struggles” not just existing fir the macho gay dudes.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: Smh if some of you would not feel the need to be so disrespectful arrogant discriminatory and derogatory about men that you simply do not deem manly their would have never been this divisiveness or indifference within this community in the first place.
All these childish comments about not being that type etc is just juvenile and unclassy.
Accept people as they are stop creating this division by showing an indifference.
You allowed yourself to develop an intolerance due to heteronormative standards within society.
That is on you no one else .
Mark Alan McRoberts
Yes the closest thing that is gay about me is that I’m a nerd. Otherwise I’m intimidating.
martinbakman
@AtticusBennett: Hissey says marriage should be delegated to the states. Yet a majority of states amended their constitutions to prohibit. Therefore, leaving it up to those states meant SS marriage would never be possible under those state governments. I’d like to hear his answer to that.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: How can you say I’m dead wrong “as per usual” when the whole time I’ve been talking to you about me are you telling me you know me better than I do. You attacked me saying I’d struggle and have a mediocre which I don’t you were wrong about that. I don’t like to be around “fem” gays not because of the experience I had with what people consider fem gays but because I’m insecure but you can’t tell me how other than I’ve been preconditioned which you also can’t tell me how. So basically you are spot on in your analysis of me you just don’t know how. Good for you you roll with strong empowered gay men that don’t see the label masc or fem but you spend all your time on here doing nothing but labeling people good going there champ.
Ricky Cavazos
The issue is gay men suffering from the straight male fascination and belittling other gay men who don’t behave like straight men.
AtticusBennett
@martinbakman: he’s a gay republican who loves sarah palin (because she reminds him of his mom. GROSS) and hates Obama – typical toeing-the-line GOP eunuch.
@TriForceKid1013: yes. you don’t want to be judged for judging “fems” and not wanting to be around them. the thing is – they’d likely sooner eat glass than hang out with an insecure homo like you.
you can argue all you like. won’t make you any less insecure. man up, chump.
Masc Pride
@Louis: But they have nothing to do with this story, which is why they’re not being discussed here. You’re diverting attention from the topic to put attention on who YOU feel is more deserving of empathy, so I’m afraid you’re the one who seems biased. Just scrolling through these comments, I can’t help but notice how you and your newfound buddy both exhibit the same qualities you seem very quick to point out as flaws in others.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: you’re not mediocre the truth of the matter is some people simply show intolerance without even realizing it.
The problem I believe is you let negative experiences skew your perspective of these gay men that you actually do have an intolerance against.
That’s my perception of it anyways.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Where did you even come from? I love how you can tell my tone through text seem how I find this whole thing hilarious and if talking about and defending myself comes off as superior and intimidating then so be it. Also you really got me by comparing me to Glen Beck, Limbaugh and O Reilly I don’t know how I’ll live that comparison down GTFOH with this silliness.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Perception is not reality in this case as I will give anyone a shoot and am very easy to get along with. Every “fem” gay I’ve run across was snotty and a asshole so I don’t like them does that mean I don’t give everyone of them I meet a shot No it could be where I live but it doesn’t make me insecure or intolerant I am the same was with everyone I meant not just gays.
Kieran
What exactly is a “straight acting” gay man anyway? A man who doesn’t act in an sufficiently stereotypical gay way? Do you have to be appropriately limp-wristed, speak with a pronounced lisp, and sashay your hips across the room in order to have your gay card validated now?
Why not just accept the reality that not all gay men can be recognized a mile away when they walk into a room? A lot of gay men are indistinguishable from other men except for the fact that they find themselves sexually attracted to other males. Why can’t we accept that there is a diversity of hues within the rainbow? Vive le difference! And why not promote that reality instead of wallowing in the old, tired caricatures heteros have saddled us with?
Louis
@Masc Pride I never designated who deserves empathy I’m actually a very empathetic person.
You were the one also who even your username implies your own intolerance and bias not mine .
It’s amazing queerty continues to allow derogatory and belittling comments yet intentionally block comments that stand against it.
Same old Queerty Smh.
TriForceKid1013
@AtticusBennett: Strong words from the empowered gay who has now resorted to insults and name calling and is probably only taking this stance because you feel you have to. Funny thing is me and all my co workers are laughing at how you’re letting a stranger get you so worked up you’re a funny dude and I appreciate the entertainment seems how we are slow today. Also when then having personal interactions with people become judging them.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: the point is you haven’t met every one of those gay men and you allowed those negative experiences essentially write off every other gay men like that.
That is a bias you can’t let those experiences skew your perception of all the other people.
You find bad seeds everywhere even I’ve let negative experiences with Masc gay dudes skew my perception of all the other ones.
However I’ve still been reminding myself as you should that there are good people within this community lovely people really and that’s just being realistic and sincere in that regard.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Right it’s a bias not an insecurity which is why I’ve been saying I’m not insecure.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: you need to grow up you sound ridiculous like any other insignificant bully laughing at someone from behind a computer.
It’s gay men like you that create this indifference hate and division.
I’m so over this .
You need a reality check some humility and a strong dose of maturity.
Smh.
Masc Pride
@Louis: “You were the one also who even your username implies your own intolerance”
And therein lies your very problem. It always comes out eventually! You’re clearly the one who’s biased (while simultaneously trying to play bias police). You’re certainly doing a poor job of showing all your supposed empathy. You and Atticus never hesitate to tell other members what they need to do to be better gays, and it’s all a bunch of BS because you both consistently go against the self-righteous advice you impose on others. I’m sure your comments have been blocked for a good reason.
BigRedEO
I have always hated the term “straight-acting.” I’m not acting. I am a gay man who is very comfortable in my own masculinity. I do very little of the “stereotypical” gay things. I have only one gay male friend and he was my best friend years before he actually came out. Otherwise, I have no gay male friends because I don’t like most gay men. All the one-up-manship and “look how much more I have than you” and the everything-I-say-is-an-insult and I can out-insult any queen in here attitude is something I just cannot be around. I have a lot of lesbian friends and they say they love me specifically because I don’t act like the typical bitchy queen. But that’s also why I don’t have a man in my life – I can’t find another gay man with my sensibilities. That’s other thing – I’m a man who likes men, not men-who-act-like-women. If I wanted a woman, I’d be with a woman. Don’t take that as an insult, that’s just what I want and there’s nothing wrong with that.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Seriously shut up with all that so I’m a bully now because I’m laughing at him but him telling me I can’t read and will struggle and have a mediocre life is acceptable to you.I swear people throw that word around way to freely now plus I think he started with me all I did was ask a question and it went from there. Sorry I have a sense of humor about arguing with a stranger maybe you shouldn’t take this site so seriously. Nice how I need to grow up now because you got proven wrong so when I acknowledge that what I was saying is true I need to grow up or maybe you should grow up and attach not yourself to other peoples conversations if you can’t handle the out come.
Masc Pride
@BigRedEO: “I have a lot of lesbian friends and they say they love me specifically because I don’t act like the typical bitchy queen.”
A perfect example of a struggle masc gay/bi men experience all the time: people assuming you’re going to be a bitchy queen that’s always eager to be argumentative. I get along better with lesbians too, but most of my friends are straight. One of my oldest buddies used to keep saying “you don’t seem like the type”. The weird thing is after awhile I could tell he was meaning it as a compliment. Another struggle.
Or people assume you dress in drag frequently. But then, I scroll past Logo and see Rupaul’s Drag Race on all day every day and think, “why wouldn’t they think that?” The only gay channel pretty much only shows a bunch of bitchy queens prancing around in drag and playing Mean Girls with each other.
I never really used the term “straight-acting”, but I can kind of see why some guys adopt that to avoid being misunderstood, and that is another struggle that is definitely “a thing”.
BigRedEO
@Masc Pride: Yep – most of my friends aew straight, too. And I get the “Are you sure you’re gay?” question all the time. But it’s more because I don’t date anymore.
Louis
@Masc Pride: @TriForceKid1013: I can definitely handle the outcome and you and Masc are absolutely pathetic hypocrites.
I don’t know why I ever even attempt to show compassion and understanding to you egotistical jokes of human beings.
You people get off on constantly trying to act macho and tough and superior and its pathetic flat out.
You didn’t have an argument in the first place you continue to live in this self absorbed entitled little bubble not even recognizing your OWN intolerance.
Get over yourselves already you people embarrass this community all the time always turning it around on us ignoring the accountability of your own attitudes of superiority and your own attitudes of intolerance.
No I won’t shut up get over that also.
The nerve of some of you and your HYPOCRITICAL attitudes.
Your comments just continue to prove the point of your hypocrisies .
Darren Murphy
The struggle is real.
Louis
@Darren Murphy: I’m glad you find all of this funny.
Some of you need to be kicked out of this community.
Your attitudes fit better with heterosexuals anyways.
I can understand why so many people are in the closet just look at the people waiting for them when they finally do come out.
Clark35
@Captain Obvious: Exactly.
Masc Pride
@Louis: Hypocritical attitudes? Like going on and on about how full of empathy you are and how gay men need to be more accepting of each other…only to then turn around and say “Some of you need to be kicked out of this community.”? Just stop typing.
Louis
Once again Queerty blocks my comment while they allow commenters like Triforce and Masc Idiot to make personal attacks .
You people are pathetic period.
Adrian Michael Ornelas
so many “straight acting” gays have no self awareness at all and they think they are so butch , but no I clocked that limp wrist from a mile away.
Louis
@Masc Pride: Grow up already you have been getting away with attacking my comments over and over.
You are a self righteous smug hypocrite and I hope they suspend you and triforce I hate gay men like you and Triforce you are the ones that create this hate especially with your hypocritical superior attitudes.
Then you ostracize and mock us for being sick of how you people act.
You people just love to keep acting like you are the innocent saints when for the most part you are the intentional instigators.
So done with this you’ll just continue to prove yourselves to be self righteous period always turning it around on others instead of yourselves.
I doubt dudes like you could ever even possibly comprehend empathy you don’t definitely don’t comprehend humility.
Louis
@Masc Pride: no hypocrite that comment is speaking of those of you who treat this as a joke or game for your own personal amusement.
Enjoy the ego I have wasted enough time conversing with the arrogant elitists like you and who act like you do.
Interesting that the only thing you are capable is trying to turn it around on me yet I don’t have PRIDE in ny masculinity I am who I am and could less if that’s an issue for your narrow prejudiced little mind.
Good riddance.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Nobody cares about your vitriol and inane rants towards feminine gay men. We get you hate feminine gay men and you want them to disappear.
People like you want to live “quietly” and in the shadows. Most of us do not choose to live that way, and we choose to live out in the open.
“Masculine guys experience way more isolation, vitriol (usually from within the gay community), misunderstanding and sexual objectification (which I’m actually okay with).”
Except this is all bullcrap. Masculine gay men are held up on a pedestal, while feminine gay men are constantly criticized, attacked and even bullied by people like yourself.
And if everyone was really tired of what I am saying, why is it people are attacking you for being such a hypocrite? You demonstrate such hypocrisy and you piggyback on the LGBT movement which was pushed forward by feminine gay men. Feminine gay men are the driving force behind the entire movement, while pathetic tools like you just climb on because you’re too fucking scared to be out in the open.
Giancarlo85
@iggy6666: Oh here we go… another one of these hit and run trolls. I won’t give you a paragraph. I’ll just call you a self serving asshole. Now run along, kiddo.
I’ve never seen you post here before. Just another case of a closeted hypocrite who is now attacking me because his little buddys are doing it. Maybe one of MASK Pride’s friends.
Doughosier
I’ve never seemed gay to people I meet. It’s not something I try to do, I just don’t come off as gay. Even in high school, I did plays with kids who were obviously gay. I felt like I was gay but not that kind of gay. Years later, they were surprised when I told them I was gay. In a way, it’s harder for straight acting gay guys to come out. The more obvious kids have no choice really. I personally don’t care if someone is obviously gay. I’ve dated straight acting guys and drag queens.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: Hey dipshit… yeah you… take your veiled threats somewhere else (maybe back to the closet you live in). They don’t work here.
Bryan Conti
Straight acting is like “passing.” You are or you aren’t. Masculine and effeminate are not about sexuality.
Giancarlo85
@BigRedEO: “That’s other thing – I’m a man who likes men, not men-who-act-like-women. If I wanted a woman, I’d be with a woman. Don’t take that as an insult, that’s just what I want and there’s nothing wrong with that.”
Not an insult? Yet you managed to insult both feminine gay men and women in the same sentence. For one, FEMININE GAY MEN ARE MEN. Women are women. Learn how to respect that and not post some misogynist bullshit to justify your own narrow mind.
BigRedEO
@Giancarlo85: AND THERE IT IS: the epitome of everything I described. Thank you for proving my point.
Pj Stein
My neighbors wish I was more “GAY” so my house, cars, yard were up to style. My gay card was pulled a long time ago.
lauraspencer
@Louis:
Nice post. I said something similar and got attacked…as usual.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: My response to you is simple this
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: You’re the one coming across as snotty and an asshole. Maybe that’s why you don’t have any luck? Maybe it is actually you?
BigRed was also complaining about feminine gay men. Maybe the reason both of you are single has less to do with feminine gay men, and more with the fact that you’re two repugnant vicious assholes nobody wants to even date.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: How do my comment prove I’m a hypocrite I mean I prove how yours did you called me a bully but didn’t seem to care that your buddy said things to me as well but you didn’t comment on that you just lumped me in with @Masc Pride. So enlighten me how do my comments make me a hypocrite seems how you hopped into a conversation that had nothing to with you in the first place but felt the need to put my name at your finger tips. Just accept I’m happy with myself and I don’t like “fem” gays because of MY experiences with their attitudes. I accept the fact you somehow need to argue with people over the internet to make yourself feel good so practice what you’re trying to preach to me and move along.
Luke H Thornton
Very few people realize I’m gay in my hometown. Those that do know I’ve either told or have seen it on my Facebook. I’m a tractor mechanic/farmer so I don’t fit any stereotype that popular culture would think would fit a gay dude. It also makes it really hard when you see someone who you might be attracted to since they may not feel like they can flirt and it be received well.
Eoin Maher
I think the problem is they feel they are being looked at in stereotypical terms of homosexuality and don’t like it BUT bafflingly don’t see they are doing the exact same thing to others by saying “that’s other gays guys but not me”. We all have many aspects of our personalities that don’t fit easily into one box. Their problem isn’t that they are “different”, their problem is assuming everyone else is the same.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Any luck with what exactly? Seems how I have had a bf going on 12 years now I think I found not only someone to date but someone who even wants to marry me. So next time to save yourself the embarrassment of looking like a fool and know how you’re trying to attack nice try tho.
Eoin Maher
Also in all these whispers they complain about dating and not finding guys with similar interest. Get on scruff dumbasses. Like really, I’ve found so many fascinatingly different men on that app, many of home would be very similar to these guys except the whole complaining part.
level75RDM
@BigRedEO: It’s hard not to call it an act when it’s such a carefully managed persona. On dating apps, why are profiles always sure to throw in a note about exercise when the picture alone should be enough to tell you if a person is healthy or not? That is, if they deign to use a picture to begin with. Why always the “I’m gay, but not that kind of gay,” as if being that is something to apologize for? Even in these comments alone, people are quickly to claim their masculinity as if their point s somehow less valid if they don’t.
“Oh, how awful my life is. People always think I like shopping! It’s almost as bad as being ‘randomly’ screened at the airport!”
And yet the blame always gets pinned on stereotypical gay men, as if they owe it to anybody to tone it down. The irony is that minorities don’t create stereotypes. The majority (straight people) are the ones who create stereotypes.
@Kieran: Ricky Martin is not an unstereotypical gay male. He five o’clock shadow purposefully shaved just to perfection, struts around in tank tops or speedos, and has hair that looks like it takes half an hour every morning to get just right. He’s so flaming, there isn’t enough SPF to go around. That’s why I’m suspicious of anybody who goes out of their way to insist they’re “masculine.” Even Lance Bass once claimed to be a “straight-acting gay,” and he was in a boyband for God’s sake. I’ll give him credit for owning up to the fact it was a stupid thing to so, but I wouldn’t take anybody at their word here that they’re masculine.
bottom250
We as gay men have to stand together and be proud of the men we are. Whether you are ubber masculine or fabulously effeminate like myself we have to be proud of the men we are. Every gay man needs to be their genuine self and live a genuine life. So stand tall sweethearts and be proud.
Dan Levin
Stop using the term “straight acting”. I’m not straight. I’m not acting.
Cesar Fortun
Who cares!
Giancarlo85
@BigRedEO: You are what you described. A catty angry gay man who is upset he’s been rejected a ton of times. Have fun with that.
@TriForceKid1013: I highly doubt you have a boyfriend.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: You don’t like fem gays because you really don’t know any.
Giancarlo85
@level75RDM: I was laughing about that comment so much. Kieran has no clue about Ricky Martin, who I’ve been a fan of for years lol. I knew he was gay and it was pretty obvious. Sure he never confirmed it early on but suspicions were rampant for years.
Chris
What bothers me most about all of this is the term “acting.” If you’re gay-acting or straight-acting, as long as you’re acting, you’re not being genuine.
I’ve dated people who were both — extremely straight acting and effeminate acting. One “straight acting” guy was so paranoid about our being seen together by his work colleagues that he refused to have breakfast with me at a very popular restaurant frequented by bike riders, police, medics, politicians and all other sorts of people. And this “effeminate acting” guy peppered me with scenarios of how he’d meet me at the door (wearing just nylons and heals was one) to see if I’d still “love” him (as if we’d gotten that far). Neither was genuine; each was a captive of his own stereotypes. And ultimately, neither lasted past our first date.
As the genie told Aladdin: “Be yourself.”
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: End Scene! In your usual melodramatic fashion, you’ve contrived a bunch of statements that I’ve never actually made in order to make yourself look right about everything. As usual, I invite you to link back to all these supposed anti-fem rants, even though I’m sure you’ll decline (as usual). It’s not necessary to lie to prove a point when you actually have a point. There aren’t any people attacking me. It’s just Louis, one person. Several guys in here are chewing you up like you’re carb-free (McShane hit the nail on the head). As far as hypocrisy, isn’t this logic that the whole LGB community owes gay fems all this gratitude tantamount the the masc superiority complex you’re always whining about?
All that aside, I find our similarities in the way we view treatment by this community rather interesting. We’re obviously on very different sides, but
it seems you feel just as unwelcome. Maybe none of us really feel accepted by this supposedly all-inclusive community. If not for all your hostility towards me, we could probably have a decent conversation about it.
Donald Jecker
Straight “acting” assumes the norm is “effeminate” which it’s not.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: No disrespect but I could care less if you believe me or not I have no reason to lie to a someone I’ll never meet. Fact is you said something and were wrong it happens no big deal. If you read my comments you would see I said it was all based on the ones I have come across. Did I say it hated them one first sight No did I say I would or could never like one again No I did say I give everyone a chance gay/straight male/female doesn’t matter. If we don’t get along good if we do great but what really is your problem with me other than assuming I’m putting you in the same category as them which I didn’t and despite our first interaction still haven’t.
Masc Pride
@Louis: You’re so full of empathy…and hate. LOL @ your fake “Good riddance”, you know you’ll be right back to preaching and bitching tomorrow. You love it.
@Luke H Thornton: Another struggle that’s definitely “a thing”: finding other like-minded guys. The ones you like, you can’t tell if they are or aren’t (and just by the numbers, chances are they most likely aren’t). Such a catch 22!
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Can you be right about anything? Or is being wrong a passion or hobby of yours? You’ve made numerous attacks on fem guys even under this article.
Here is an excerpt of your nasty rhetoric:
“Fems are also everything most heteros EXPECT gay men to be. Masculine guys experience way more isolation, vitriol (usually from within the gay community), misunderstanding and sexual objectification (which I’m actually okay with). Fems always complain about masc privilege, but that really only exists on dating apps (since we all know gays like to play pro-fem…until it’s time to get laid).”
What a pile of self serving crap. Feminine gay men are often discriminated, especially by people like you.
There are a lot more than just Louis attacking you. There are many people attacking me. Put your ego away for a while. McShane posts every now and then (like once a week) and usually to go after me. Then he runs off.
And what the fuck is the LGB community? Nothing I ever heard of. Learn the reality please.
You’re the one demonstrating a superiorty complex because you’re an arrogant egotistical twat. You, like McShane, need to express your superiority over others because you have major personality faults.
You don’t welcome anyone. You express disgust and distaste towards feminine men, and say they are trying to be fake.
“If not for all your hostility towards me, we could probably have a decent conversation about it.”
I’m more welcomed by the gay community than a closet queen like you who whines about everything. You whine more than any feminine gay man I’ve known.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: You’re a nasty person who hates feminine gay men. You said you don’t like them at all and you made your feelings well known. You also don’t know how to read.
George Scherer
They use the term straight acting because that’s what other people use. They don’t mean acting but that’s not who you are…they mean straighter tendencies rather than “typical gay” tendencies which is in fact the issue that this is all about. It’s about that “gay tendencies” shouldn’t mean clubbing, 4-somes, makeup and tight clothing.
So nice try at an article to debate, but like its furthering a stereotype they’re trying to bring to light…..lol smh
Giancarlo85
@Giancarlo85: Correction: There are many people attacking YOU. Not just me, and not just Louis. you aren’t welcomed on here and it would be better if you extricate yourself from the LGBTQQI community. The community would be far better off without you trying to be part of it.
Giancarlo85
And nobody chewed me up. The trolls on here can’t chew up shit… they just post big words and can’t justify shit. And who is attacking me? You, McShane? Big whoopie doo. You really are a dumb fuck.
Curty
As someone who would be assumed to be straight by most people, it some ways it has probably helped me but at the same time it has made feel like an outsider to other gay males, so I do understand how some of these guys feel. I feel as long as I do my part in promoting equality it does take some of the disappointment of noting being totally “in” the crowd so to speak with popular in gay culture. I’ve made my peace with mot being the bar, club or other trend gay type and just be myself. Truth is I don’t “look” gay or sound “gay” I am assumed by people who don’t know me to be straight, it annoys me to a degree but it is what it is. I’m not remotely flaming. I have friends who are. I have trans friends. But in my mind, in my thoughts
. I’m so at one with this community as in public policy. So for are you gay males and women, whatever you personality type as long as you are true to yourself and don’t harm our community, I’m so behind yall. I’m a gay male, have never had a problem with it, no inner struggle, who happens to appear “straight” it used to bother me. I used to want to more flaming and fit in more with friends and associates. I realize I was more “Will” kinda gay than “jack” and its ok.
Andrew Stow
Really?
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Correction there are 3 you Louis and AB. Funny thing now I’m and nasty person that hates fem ok but you were wrong about me before and are now even if I said I hated them I explained and doesn’t mean things can’t/wont change if I meet some and we get along. Also how don’t I know how to read cause AB said so. I’m guessing you cant read to good either or you would have read at least 3 times why I said what I said and yet none of the 3 of you know what I even consider to be “fem”.
TriForceKid1013
@TriForceKid1013: So 1 more than you and Louis and none of the 3 fact is you assumed I was single when I’m not just like you assume to know what I consider “fem”.
Cv_iphone
I find it interesting that the guys who made Whisper comments, many of them said, “Oh I’ll never find someone like me” which I find funny because they say they hate that they’re being pigeon holed into a stereotype when they’re not, but they are doing the same to every other gay guy by thinking that they’re the only straight acting gay.
If there’s one, there’s usually more right??? My husband and I are both “straight acting” and do “straight stuff”; we own a Jeep, play in the desert, own a home in suburbia, but rarely with the gay community just because we don’t identify/yearn for those wants/needs. We found each other and those guys can too.
And before anyone says anything, no I’m not gay bashing, to each his own etc, just do what makes you happy. They say women claw at each other while fighting for equal rights, and the gay community is just as bad.
jesaves
Honestly I’m am sick and tired of “straight acting” gay men who feel the need to act a certain way to fit in with the average straight manits frankly quite pathetic and sad that those guys care so much about the opinions of people who have no effect.on their lives whatsoever. I applaud effeminate gay men and just effeminate men in general because they have the courage to be whoever the he’ll they want to be. I thought the hole point of the lgbt community was just a bunch of people who wanted to be themselves I think that is the most important thing just be yourself. Why are you trying to fit in with a society that will never fully include you. If you like football cool you do that but don’t ridicule other effeminate gay men who enjoy Broadway and fashion because if it weren’t for effeminate gay men you would have no rights. stop worrying about the opinions of insignificant twats who have no effect on your life.
jwtraveler
Are firemen, Marines, football players and engineers more “stereotypically straight” than English professors, movie actors, computer geeks and chefs? Do you think that any straight men ever ask themselves this question?
jesaves
It’s the same heteronormative behaviour that we are drilled with since birth that affects us even though we are homosexuals we have been taught that certain things are male and female and that they can’t be mixed for so long that it is stuck in our subcinciois and even though we become part of a community that embraces self expression we cant get rid of heteronormative brainwashing so I see why straight acting gay men act the way they do.
bottom250
Sweethearts can’t we all just get along.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: Likewise, I feel people like you are toxic and repel good guys with all your fem entitlement, shaming and hostility. You seem like a really angry person. Louis was the only one I saw trying to pick a fight with me (scroll up). Point is, you’re always criticizing my character, but it doesn’t seem like you have many fans here either. That quote of mine was hardly an anti-fem tirade, nor was it even remotely close to all the dramatic exaggerations you originally came up with (scroll up). Fem guys DO fit the idea of gay most people have in their minds; that is hardly “nasty rhetoric”. You definitely have a fem superiority complex. I’m not the one constantly going on about why the whole LGB community OWES masc guys some type of gratitude. I don’t know anything about McShane, I just know his assessment of you was spot on.
Giancarlo85 @7:37:
“Masculine gay men are held up on a pedestal, while feminine gay men are constantly criticized, attacked and even bullied by people like yourself.”
Giancarlo85 @ 9:47:
“I’m more welcomed by the gay community than a closet queen like you who whines about everything. You whine more than any feminine gay man I’ve known.”
See the contradiction?
DarkZephyr
@TriForceKid1013:
In your first post to AtticusBennett you wanted to make sure he didn’t have a problem with “masculine” gay men themselves.
“So just so I’m clear on your position your problem isn’t with “masculine gay man” just the ones you feel hide it while also complaining about not being able to be identified as gay?”
And then you typed the following in your next post:
” I’m also one of those people who don’t really like “feminine gays” (I just find them annoying)”
So while you don’t think anyone should have an issue with “masculine” gay men, you yourself admit that you have a problem with “feminine” gay men. Perhaps you might ask yourself why this is?
All I have for you beyond the above at this time is a question. Why do you find them annoying? Can you explain why?
Raphael
I’m not masculine enough for masculine gay guys and not feminine enough for effeminate gay boys. I’m in fucking limbo. Hate that 🙁
Johnathan-Perry O'Brien
Yes
Avery Alvarez
Why do some equate masculinity with “straight acting”
Unless you eat out vagina and stick your penis in it, you’re not straight acting.
DarkZephyr
@Raphael: People have different tastes, personal mannerisms don’t always dictate who you want. Just be yourself, you will find somebody. 🙂
DarkZephyr
@Avery Alvarez: Amen there!
DarkZephyr
I would like to point out an inconsistency that I have noticed among some of those who like to go on and on about how masculine they are, here at Queerty. Supposedly there is this great “struggle” that has absolutely *nothing* to do with a disdain for feminine gay men, either on the part of their straight friends or on the part of themselves. A struggle finding your place, feeling accepted by other gay men, etc. Supposedly “feminine” gay men deride you and claim that you need to be more feminine yourselves. But then many of these same “masculine” gay men who make this claim also declare under other posted articles (ones about fem shaming) that “masculine gay men are what gay men want, even feminine gay men”. So can any of you tell me which is the reality? Do “fem” gays want you because you are “masc” or do they want you to be more “fem” because they don’t think you “act gay enough”? It can’t be both.
I don’t self identify as masculine or as feminine, I am just me and whatever I am, I am and I don’t give a flying f*ck what anyone else thinks about my mannerisms or tastes, etc. Honestly associating mannerisms with tastes is kind of dumb if you ask me. One of my boyfriends was a very butch man (though he didn’t go around talking about how masculine he was or typing about it online) and he liked stereotypically butch guy things but he was also a big huge Madonna fan. So who you listen to or what you like to watch really doesn’t have to have a THING to do with your mannerisms. I have several straight male friends who love Drag Race in fact.
McShane
@Giancarlo85: Actually, I was culling photos all morning and Lightroom was being super slow. So I took a break and used my time to express how I feel about you. I didn’t run off.
I didn’t attack you because you’re effeminate, I attacked you because your a jerk.
I rarely reply to your comments, partially because I’m not interested. Mostly because I don’t want to get sucked up into the insult filled drama tornado that follows you around. I’ve never passed judgment on what you have done with your life. I’ve only commented directly to you about the way you conduct yourself, and how it effects me, negatively.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: Your reading comprehension is just so piss poor. I’m not the only one who noticed this. You simply don’t read posts and you reply on a whim. Learn how to read before you reply.
@Masc Pride: There was absolutely NO contradiction there. Masculine gay men are held up on a pedestal… by themselves. And they bully feminine gay men. I find myself accepted by other feminine gay men and not by masculine men. Personally I don’t give a shit about most masculine gay men because they are hostile and major whiners. Maybe you could ask before you make some stupid statement like that.
What fem superiority complex? You just can’t handle people different than you, and that is why you’re so repulsive and nasty. And you were quite nasty even saying feminine gay men act like women. You are just so fucking clueless and you’re just another one who doesn’t know how to read.
And McShane was full of shit. But then again what do you expect from a log cabin republican afterall?
And what is the LGB community? Never heard of it as there is no such thing.
Tell me, do you make up shit as you go along?
Giancarlo85
@McShane: you’re a douchebag. That’s why I attack you. And you don’t judge me? Oh is that the case? Why did you say I was lying about my own credentials and background then?
Seriously, you’re all over the fucking place. Did you write that post while you were drunk? Do you drink while working? Maybe your employer should know about that.
Gabriel Dor
Boo effing hoo. I’m a full on queen who fails to get on with those catty queens because they’re busy worshipping the butch. Str8 acting passability is total gender privilege. Cry me a river butch boy.
Michael John Bramham
don’t know if I’m straight acting but I certainly don’t fit most of the stereotypes so that can be isolating in the gay community so yeah I’d say its a thing
Paco
@Avery Alvarez: Exactly. It makes no sense.
David Dewberry
No, it is a fiction that is like drag. Some men are perceived as gay, due to stereotypes
… that is the only thing….
Owen Lovejoy
So now that we’re starting to get acceptance we turn on each other and on ourself? I find acceptance in my circle of friends…..that’s why their my circle of friends. If you don’t find acceptance find new friends. This isn’t a gay issue this is a human issue. If more people were happy with themselves others opinions wouldn’t hinder them.
Paco
Almost all of these could have been written by your typical right wing homophobe. Whining because girls try to get with you? Really? And whining because the heteros you admire try to ridicule you with the anti-gay insults (dressing like a woman, being into fashion, etc…) they created to use against us. Gay men didn’t create those stereotypes, homophobic bigots did.
My absolute favorite out of these whispers is the one that whines about the “straight” guys that are willing to “experiment” with him, but leave him lonely because they will never love him or choose a life with him like they would the women they are really attracted to. Congrats fool, you are the biggest gay cliche ever.
What’s funny is, with all the hyper-masculine gay men out there, these guys can’t seem to find one another and apparently they are not masculine enough for each other either. I wonder what it’s like going through life mindfucking yourself like that. I imagine it can’t be very pleasant.
Any struggles they are experiencing with being gay, seem to be self-induced by insisting they are really straight, except for that liking penis thing, and wishing straight guys would pursue and desire them the same way they pursue and desire women. Homophobic straights are the people that make them feel like they need to be a flaming queen, or assume they are one if they are gay. It isn’t the flaming queens doing it to them.
Saint Law
Reading through the self-admiring whinges of the Whisperers it occurs to me that somebody ought to tell them self pity aint a traditional masculine quality.
They have their echoes btl. The suck-cheeked inadequate known as ‘mawk4mawk’ with his usual whining about the hard time str8 actors get from the femme controlled gay community.
I used to do security work for various bars straight and gay. One part of the gay gig was ensuring the punters queuing in line were safe from passing gangs of drunken homophobes who would frequently verbally abuse them. It could be a long queue and we didn’t always get to the trouble in time before someone in line was physically assaulted.
In such instances there were two things you could depend on: firstly the targets would always be ‘obviously’ gay or as the perjorative term is ‘effeminate’. Secondly, that the only people who would stand up for them – aside from lesbians of course – were other ‘obviously’ gay men.
The reasons for this aren’t hard to find: a flamer will always excite the rage of the sexually insecure, and a life time of having to contend with such rage frequently equips ‘queens’ with reserves of courage and sheer bloody mindedness that their meeker ‘masculine’ brothers can not imagine, let alone equal.
I say this as someone who outwardly appears to be a ‘Trad Masc Gay’. I have never been subject to homophobic abuse let alone violence. Sex is easy to get ’cause I conform to the most esteemed stereotype in our society. Homo friendly straight people like me because they are ALWAYS looking for gay men who they believe subvert the ‘girly’ gay paradigm.
Honestly, the idea that men like me have it hard when compared to more feminine gay men is abs-lol-utely ludicrous. And anyone maintaining that this is the case ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: There absolutely was a contradiction, as there usually is with you. It’s like you’re allergic to consistency. On one hand, you made a general statement saying masc guys are more appreciated in the LGB community, and then you turn around and talk about how you’re fem and more appreciated by the same community. You go from self-victimization to delusions of grandeur. BTW what happened to “I’m androgynous”? Are you fem on certain days and androgynous on others, or does it just depend on whatever you’re arguing at any particular moment? As far as fem men acting like women, I didn’t say that, however isn’t that why it’s called efFEMinacy? lol
A fem superiority complex would be thinking the whole LGB community owes fem men gratitude (I stated it like 3x). I can only imagine the bitchfest that would ensue if I said the LGB community owes masc guys something. Thinking you should be able to trash masc guys but cry bigotry if someone says anything your hypersensitive mind deems anti-fem:
“Personally I don’t give a shit about most masculine gay men because they are hostile and major whiners.”
This is what I mean by queens like you being guilty of the very same things you’re so obsessed with trying to blast others for doing. You’re just as judgmental as the people you incessantly complain about. LOL @ you calling someone else hostile.
TriForceKid1013
@DarkZephyr: If you went through the rest of my post and not just the first you’d see why
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Seriously you half wit you’re the one who replied to me out of no where saying you didn’t like me so I think that makes you tje one who replies on a whim. Also I can read pretty well and the only reason you’re saying that is because AB said it and its the only thing you can latch onto since I already shut you down and made you flip your who stance on me.
TriForceKid1013
@DarkZephyr: I said due to my personal situations with the ones I have dealt with. I also said that doesnt mean I wont ever come across any I may in fact get along with.
David Bolton
I agree with the comment about turning “Whisper” into “Whine.” If you don’t enjoy a behavior, then don’t engage in it.
There, problem solved.
Timothy Ronald Pell
These people are all idiots. You are not “straight acting” unless you stick your dick in vagina. Otherwise there is no straight or gay activities. THESE men are the closed minded judgmental ones, not the ones they are whining about.
Jesse Erickson
its stupid to act a different way because people think thats the way everyone like you is. Happiness is all that matters in the long run, not what they think
AlexM123
@jesaves: I’m going to quote your entire post so that people understand my comment.
“Honestly I’m am sick and tired of “straight acting” gay men who feel the need to act a certain way to fit in with the average straight manits frankly quite pathetic and sad that those guys care so much about the opinions of people who have no effect.on their lives whatsoever. I applaud effeminate gay men and just effeminate men in general because they have the courage to be whoever the he’ll they want to be. I thought the hole point of the lgbt community was just a bunch of people who wanted to be themselves I think that is the most important thing just be yourself. Why are you trying to fit in with a society that will never fully include you. If you like football cool you do that but don’t ridicule other effeminate gay men who enjoy Broadway and fashion because if it weren’t for effeminate gay men you would have no rights. stop worrying about the opinions of insignificant twats who have no effect on your life.”
^Do you even realize how insulting your post is to masculine gay men? So all masculine men are just acting? There is no such thing as a gay man that is legitimately masculine in every way? It has to be an act? And I had to laugh at your “feminine men have the courage to be who they are” bit. What makes them more brave? Everyone has to come out and stay out of the closet. That is the only bravery there is in being gay. Are you implying that masculine gay men want to be someone else? Because by their own word they don’t. That’s all that they are saying in these comments. It’s the effeminate gay men that are convinced otherwise.
What I dislike most about effeminate gay men is how they want it both ways. They don’t want homosexuality to be a contest, except for when they’re the winners. I could go on and on but I won’t.
jesaves
Do not even try and twist my words I said straight acting gay men notice the acting part. I have no problem with masculine gay men the type of masculine gay men I have a problem with are the ones who care so much about the opinions of straight men and women that they force themselves to act walk and talk a certain way and push away anyone who exhibits some form of effeminate behavior my whole argument was that these straight”acting” notice the emphasis on acting should just be themselves and stop worrying about the opinions of irrelevant people
Robert Wilson
yea it’s a fucking thing.
Tommy Watson
I don’t like the label. It undermines the multifaceted makeup of a man. Whenever I see the termed used it has many negative connotations.
Steven Marc Torjñeans
I can totally relate. No one ever believes I’m a top. Not even my mom.
Phil Robledo
If being yourself is loud and proud, go for it. If being yourself is discreet and chill, go for it. If you’re both, more power to ya 🙂
nightside23
Was wondering if anyone thought to consider that some of the whisper post guys could be seriously depressed. While it may seem that they are whining (and of course some of them are), if your depressed, it wont actually be that for them. Depression is a major issue within the LGBT community and so many of us forget it. Also, do remember that not everybody thinks things the same way as everybody else, so what may whinnying and selfish to read may be from a very depressed person who cant think of the positive things in life. And saying ‘well just stop being depressed and think happy thoughts’ (which I have been told before to my face) is just about one of the most harmful thing you will do to that person. Everybody has demons and struggles. And some of those people don’t have anybody they FEEL they can talk to (I capitalize feel because it is about emotions, not logic, and many may not understand that logic need not apply).
While being who you are is very freeing, when being yourself could get you killed, that’s never good. First priority for everybody should be don’t get killed. If acting a certain way will get you killed, then stay safe until you can get out of that situation. If anyone says you should always be yourself even if people (i.e. homophobes) don’t like it (which is essentially what a few posters on here have implied by saying that those that are ‘acting’ are wimps), then you should either take their advice with a shit ton of salt or ignore them.
What I’ve come to realize (for myself) is that I don’t dislike ‘fem’ guys, but I dislike the personalities of some of the ‘fem’ guys I have met. Same with the ‘masc’ guys I have met as well. Nobody can be every bodies cup of tea.
While changing yourself to be more acceptable can be harmful, it may also be necessary, so you shouldn’t criticize those that do just because you yourself do not. Everybody alters what they show to specific people. So everybody changes how they act around others. That’s not bad, especially when people don’t usually realize they are doing it. That’s just human nature.
and @Paco, a guy ‘whining’ about girls trying to get with him may be more about how girls don’t believe him (and not having people believe what you tell them can be very depressing) and he just doesn’t know how to handle it. There are girls that that take offense if a guy isn’t interested in them and will try to force themselves on the guy. Just another way of thinking about it.
Can we please stop with attacking others? It’s damaging to others (young gay me who are confused specifically) when they see gays attacking each other for their thoughts. There are far more ways to think of things that just one way.
Andrew Mondt
That term degenerates those, like me, that don’t or don’t want to pass.
DarkZephyr
@TriForceKid1013: This is what I read in context:
“I’m also one of those people who don’t really like “feminine gays” (I just find them annoying)but it has nothing to do with my father who left when I was 6 but when we reconnected later in life was and is very accepting of me. These things come from who I grew up around and none of them ever bad mouthed or denigrated those (or any) type of gays they just didn’t/don’t act like them.”
This tells me nothing about why you find feminine gay men annoying. But if its a secret and you don’t wish to share it, I will respect that but from now on you probably shouldn’t post something on a public forum if you don’t want people to request further information. Have a good night.
DarkZephyr
@AlexM123: I didn’t see his original post but from what you quoted, I don’t really see that he said “all” “straight acting” gay men. There are those gay men who do indeed affect what they perceive as a more “butch” persona. In your opinion, is trying to be something you aren’t a good thing? I don’t personally think that his post applied to masculine gay men who are just being their natural selves. So unless you are one of those gay men who tries and tries to be something he absolutely isn’t, I don’t think there is a need for you to feel personally insulted. 🙂
Zach Bruno
Without even reading the article no – no it is not a thing.
TriForceKid1013
@DarkZephyr: It’s not personal and actally said why in a reponse to Louis if you want @ me all I ask is you at least read all my stuff beforehand but I’ll answer you anyway I said all the ones I came across acted like snotty assholes.
TriForceKid1013
@TriForceKid1013: and I will have a good night as Im enjoying a late night walk since its still warm here you do the same.
Shane Sabean
If you have to act a certain way due to you’re afraid of how others will view you…..two words, bye felicia.
Kick Emerson
Cheers
Jeremy Malean
Yes
Harold Vera
I feel like the term straight-acting gets confused with masculinity… Nothing wrong with being masculine.
Bryn Thomas
Reductive bullshit
Jordan Ellis
Dunno guys; it’s really hard to not act like a black woman…
bottom250
Each one of us should live our own genuine life, my lovelies.
Sluggo2007
OMG!!! Who writes these articles? A 12 year old?
DavidIntl
I hope that with time and education general society will become aware that being gay doesn’t necessarily mean that one fits a certain caricature. I applaud, of course the number of gay characters in film and television these days, but it is unfortunate that they are so often stereotypes. I often worry that that may in fact be making things difficult for questioning guys, because they perpetuate the myth that being gay means being noticeably ‘different’ in appearance, mannerisms, tastes, etc.. How many guys are out there thinking “I am attracted to men, but I don’t ‘look gay’, and I don’t ‘act gay’ and I am not attracted to guys who do – so I guess I must not be gay after all”?
Personally, I feel no discomfort around the more effeminate or flamboyant members of our community – I have many friends who could be so described. But I am not that way, or attracted to guys who are. To each his own. But it would indeed be great if everyone recognised that there is great diversity within the gay community, and none of us are obliged to fit any preconceived notion of what it means to be gay.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: You are an idiot who doesn’t know how to read. you are now making things up because you are too stupid to come up with an original argument. I just told you that was no contradiction and explained why. Why do you refuse to read? And what the fuck is the LGB community? There is no such thing. Talk to me in facts and not in your demented fantasies. Delusions of grandeur? Are you fucking kidding me? Have you looked at the mirror lately? You are someone who tries to speak for others and you hold yourself up as superior.
By the way, you don’t know shit about me. I have always said I am androgynous. You don’t know how to read and you don’t know anything about androgynous people. You just make things up as you go along. You are a major bigot who constantly trashes on feminine gay men and you have done it for several post. Coupled with your shit reading comprehension, you are incapable of making an actual post. So you post misconstrued bullshit about what I think.
People like you are the problem in the LGBTQQI community. And please don’t respond with that stupid myth called the LGB community as it doesn’t exist. You are completely ignorant and delusional. You are a bigot along the lines of right wing conservatives.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: You could shut shit down even if you tried. You are a bigot and you didn’t reverse anything. I stick by my original statement. you are nothing more than an ignorant self hating bigot. Your posts reek of violent resentment. And you can I read nor can you write in complete coherent sentences.
Justinius Phoenix
Gay Acting Straight Man, Straight Acting Gay Man, Effeminate Gay Man, Macho Straight Man, Etc….. So many F***ing labels when did the way we act get so many we might as well be the department store “The Men’s Warehouse” . Can’t we just be been with differing tastes, attitudes, preferences, and habits, and just be MEN. With all this labeling and OVERlabeling that society has forced onto everyone in the “modern age” we are pushing each other further and further apart by building all of these imaginary “walls” between us, We as a people will never come togther as one till we identify as the only label that should matter……. HUMAN, Something EVERYONE shares (No offense to any Extraterrestrials who may be hiding and “visiting” among us, you matter to lol)
Jim Fu Raskey
Andre Boykin
I used to have a hard time picking up guys because they thought I was “on the clock”. When I started emulating the more fem guys, I was more easily accepted.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Thats’s how I know this convo needs to end once you go to attacking grammer and sentence structure we are done because it’s clear you have nothing left to say. Then again you never did to beging with all you’ve done is call me and whoever names over and over and over. Who cares if my sentence structure on a message board is bad you still know what they mean. Next time I’ll listen to my friends and wont feed to troll and before you play grammar police make sure the post you do in isn’t full of errors itself. Also how do my post reek of violent resentment because I called you a half wit? I guess of you throw enough of it at the wall some will stick eventually lol.
jheryn
I’m one of those “straight acting” guys. I’m not sure who defines that, but it’s out there. I don’t care for the clubs and the stereotypical gay scenes.
Having said that, most of my gay friends are more effeminate and I think they are awesome. I don’t like the gay clubs and gay bars and the gay social scenes, not because they are gay but because I don’t like clubs, bars, and most social scenes. LOL.
I like to fish and watch sports. If you do or don’t that is fine. People should do what they want. Just like being gay should not be the only thing defining us as people, neither should what we do or how we act.
The masculine vs feminine debate/argument/struggle is at its base stupid. We should all accept each other and enjoy each other. I like all kinds of people gay and straight. Feminine or masculine doesn’t matter to me. Being a great person or an ass hat does. And believe me when I say that those types of people come in all variations of people.
IvanPH
This struggle is true.
F*ck stereotypes. I will not act like a strong black woman because i am not one.
Chris Spence
Taylor Stockett Samuel Angus LeMaistre III Marcus Cruz Sanchez
Keith Ryli McDonald
The fact that you use the term “straight-acting” says it all.
seaguy
Guys who identify as “straight acting” probably have issues with not being comfortable with being homosexual because to identify as “straight acting” just like Keith above said says it all.
Alan David Smith
I never got the whole straight acting idea. I’m on a couple of adult sites and while most of the guys will say football as their sport I fall asleep to football. but I will watch hockey. I like female singers. but I’ve listened to both reba. and lita ford. I prefer coney’s to burgers. and criminal minds over ncis. I don’t feel any less guy because of it. but according to some code somewhere. written by a random person. because I like “like a prayer” over “enter sandman.” I am less a man. i’ll never get it but to those who want to give up their identity for a label go for it.
Glücklich
I can’t believe some commenters are still spending time attacking each other. No one’s worried about being late for work? I know it’s been AM stateside for a while now.
@AtticusBennett:
Seriously, Bennett, I’m waiting for an update. Lose the singlet. Don’t replace it with anything. Just lose the singlet
(Loosens tie and fans self)
Walter Samuel Williams
Sexual orientation is a tiny part of one’s life either gay/bi/straight. etc;. The gay community puts too many labels on ourselves instead of simply being a human being who just happens to be gay regardless of whether one is so called “straight acting” or any other perceived image. We should learn to accept differenes in our community and unite to fight the hatred of the far right who wish to destroy us.
James Kepler
Most boring post I’ve ever seen
Jim Langford
Most gay men are attracted to masculine men – “no fems” is the norm. The less they act like females the more attractive they are.
Tony Lee Churchill
Yes it’s real… That’s life, but it’s getting better. We’ve made “butch/femme” statements forever. Now we just use different terms. Cisgender is one, (btw ‘metro’ has been out of season for sime time). With LGB & *T issues coming more to light, media twists stuff around alot (inluding our Q meaning Queer instead of the correct: QUESTIONING). This is not to say that some aren’t using the term correctly when describing other than a more-familiar ‘binary’ in both gender and orientation. Different areas’ cultures (of course) vary in their acceptance of diversity… even within our Community. I wouldn’t expect it to be any different than it is by now. Closets are easier to escape now, for many more than before. Time changes everything.
DarkZephyr
@AtticusBennett: Ha ha just watched the “stereotypical gay guy hates stereotypical gay guys” vid you posted. I have seen that phenomena MORE TIMES THAT I CAN COUNT. Men who describe themselves as proudly “masc” and say they hate “fems” and “stereotypical gay people” and then when you meet them…. LMAO. Now, I am by no means laughing at their femininity, I am laughing at their complete cluelessness about their own selves which leads to an amusing hypocrisy and frankly a very sad prejudice.
Gabriel Dor
Has anyone else noticed that the PC self-hating gays have turned “no fats or fems” into “masc only and takes care of himself”? It’s still the same hierarchical, body-shaming gender-normative crap. Yes I have known such “straight-acting” gays who have a harder time coming out because they don’t want to lose the gender-normative privilege us marked screaming queens never had the luxury of enjoying. It sure is fun to be called “gay” by others before you even know what that means. I prefer “queer” anyway because it connects me to fab lesbians, queer women, bis and transfolks. Now that is real outsider status.
Mark Anthony Breuninger
Justinius Phoenix#preach #gospel #nolabels #respect
DarkZephyr
@Jim Langford: Do you date much? Because in my personal and *practical* experience, you are wrong. Personally, I like when a guy puts “no fems” in his profile, because you know instantly that he is a superficial douche bag . But as I said, in my practical experience, I find that you are wrong. Most genuinely butch gay guys that I have met don’t have a preference. Its the fake “masc” guys who are totally clueless about themselves that tend to care.
Glücklich
@jesaves:
“…stop worrying about the opinions of irrelevant people.”
The whole debate should boil down to exactly this. The only opinions I concern myself with are those of my bosses, certain clients, and my husband.
Charlie in Charge
The struggle is not real. As other above have said, gay culture is very enthusiastic about masculinity, and gay men have been kvetching about femme/camp guys since the 70s.
We don’t hear of more feminine gay men wishing all the more masculine gay men would just go away so they wouldn’t be associated with them. No theater queen has ever demanded that another gay man not watch football. And you never hear “streotypically gay” men complaining that a character on TV is too butch and they can’t relate.
Whereas the closet cases (note, it’s not all masculine gay men, just the whiny “straight acting” ones) really do seem to want to erase gay characters with a hint of a gay accent and an opinion about Bette Midler from all media.
AtticusBennett
@Charlie in Charge: and it alls boils down to this – they don’t want to be “like those gays” that their straight buds, their families and their communities mock and denigrate. it’s textbook.
“we’re not represented! and we don’t have the orbs to represent ourselves! and we’re sick of the fact that all you stereotypical gays are so unafraid of bigots and bullies that you continue to be Out and Visible and we’re not!”
even when they say “i’m so sick of the stereotype that gays are fems who listen to lady gaga!” they’re really just saying “all the straight people around me say that gays are fems and listen to gaga and those are both bad things”
here’s the deal dudes – you can choose to live each day worrying what others think. or not.
AtticusBennett
@BigRedEO: your post was internalized-homophobia incarnate. you’ll never find a man. not because you’re so masculine, because you’re not. but because you’re so deluded and lost in your insecurity that you can’t see how it’s already crippled you. conrgats. you’re a gay man who doesn’t like gay men. enjoy being alone. permanently.
Curty
I wish someone would look at my first comment and see a positive one on here. Just like any demographic, there are many personality types and people who are different… many people have struggles…we have to remember we are in this community together… and believe it or not for many of us, what affects some.. effects us all who want equality. We all should put our differences aside.
TomOH
This “article” is a joke to begin with – since it already makes a condescending implications towards gay guys who aren’t effeminate/flamboyant. I’m sick of being treated like a “closet case” just because that’s not my personality – I’ve been out for nearly 20 years now, I’m not hiding or ashamed of anything with regards to my sexuality. It’s not just other gay people who perpetrate this, straight people do it too, unless you make some big announcement to them that you’re gay, they’re talking about you behind your back to others joking about how you’re some insufferable closet case. Honestly, if anything, from my perspective it’s the more effeminate variety of gay men who have a chip on their shoulder towards gay men who identify as more masculine – get over it, not all gay men share your personality traits.
AtticusBennett
@TomOH: let’s see you! 😀
just kidding. i know your stereotype – angry boastful claims from a place of anonymity 🙂
here’s a fun game – a self-hatign dating profile.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2014/03/and-how-is-that-working-for-you-or.html
wonder how long it’s gonna be before this guy realizes the problem is, yes, himself?
DarkZephyr
@TomOH: You don’t “announce” that you are gay but you aren’t “effeminate/flamboyant”. I’m sorry, why exactly do people treat you like a “closet case” then? Can you clarify?
“Honestly, if anything, from my perspective it’s the more effeminate variety of gay men who have a chip on their shoulder towards gay men who identify as more masculine – get over it, not all gay men share your personality traits.”
So in your opinion, “the more effeminate variety of gay men” have a chip on their shoulder about masculine men, as a rule? I see that you are of a different opinion than Jim Langford who declares “Most gay men are attracted to masculine men – “no fems” is the norm. The less they act like females the more attractive they are.” I take it that you think he is wrong?
Steven Bucknall
i am sickened to read these messages. what type of person is the stereotype? a gay man that assumes or not that he has a feminine side. what is wrong with a gay man that has a feminine side?
Phoenix Lopez Harman
It has to be exhausting to act like something you’re not!
D Perris Floyd-Bloxsom
Yes…. I think there IS a #STR8ACTINGGAYMAN STRUGGLE! BUT…. ALOT of it is THEIR OWN FAULT!!
MY ADVICE(As a Trans/Drag Queen): STOP LETTING THE WORLD DICTATE YOU!! You don’t have to “LOOK GAY” to BE GAY…. BUT, you don’t have to BE GAY to LOOK GAY!! STOP ACTING & START BEING & ACCEPTING WHO YOU ARE!!!!
Celtic
I don’t seem to have these problems. I can’t relate. I don’t like the term straight acting. I am not an actor. I am who I am. Most people would never know I’m gay. Even other gays and their female friends (fruit fly, fag hag whatever correct term is) can’t tell. I shocked one girl recently who is very pro gay and thought she could just tell when someone was gay because of her gay best friend. I don’t hide but I don’t go around waving a rainbow flag either. I have had friends who were drag queens and other gay mechanics etc. I have friends who are trans. I don’t mind being with a variety of people. Some of the above in story seem to have problems with being around effeminate gay men, drag queens etc. I think that is more the problem than anything else. They need to accept others differences and just relax and be who they are. Quit worrying what others may think of you and just live.
Lovelife
I think I have my flamboyant moments. But I have learned to control and mask them- given how brutal the peanut gallery out there can be LOL.
When younger,I was a lot more flamboyant though. I guess fear took a lot of it away.
mujerado
Sorry, I just don’t get it. I’m a “straight-acting” gay man. I’ve had people, including gay guys, tell me they don’t believe it. It never bothered me, because I know who I am. I never figured there’s any “way” to “be gay,” other than just to be who I am. If people don’t like that I don’t “act” gay enough it’s no more important than people who don’t like how more flamboyant gay men act. It’s none of their business, really. Most people accept me as I am. Like Dr. Seuss said, “People who mind don’t matter, and people who matter don’t mind.”
nature boy
@Curty: there are many many positive and funny comments in this post…. and many many comments that will make people wince if they look back on them in a decade or 2. I said a lot of stupid stuff in my 20’s and did some dumb things in my 30’s that make me wince in hindsight from my 40’s. It’s really a mirror of the big struggle in society today to accept that everything is not binary, black or white, a lot of things are analog and on a continuum. I really think Kinsey had it right…. for many people, sexuality and gender are not either/or. It was easier for society to try and force them into those boxes for a while but now it’s getting real and messy and that’s all good. I’ve been somewhat shocked myself that as I get older I actually am finding women more sexually attractive. Go figure.
The reality is if you know and like yourself, it doesn’t matter how other people act. You just do your own thing and enjoy the variety that life offers.
It is harder for many gays to find their like-minded niche when we’re only 5% of the population, but the internet certainly helps. My advice for these guys is not to look for love, look for a wide variety of friends, and love will find you when you least expect it.
I actually do like Atticus’ advice to wear a rainbow bracelet or some other token if you are frustrated that people don’t realize you’re gay and available, it IS getting harder to tell who is gay and who is straight now that we are welcomed openly in more and more settings that we used to be excluded from.
Curty
I think 5% percent of the population is pretty low, you have to consider all of the closet gays and bisexuals too, plus those who don’t want to be “labeled” even though they are gay or bi. I’m not buying only 5% of the population is gay. There are millions in new York, millions in texas, millions in California, millions in Illinois, Florida. Those are the most populous states there, just imagine how many gay and bisexual people there are in say my home state of Maryland, Maine, Idaho, Oregon.. I think society wants to believe that only 5 percent of the population is gay or bi but that is a small estimate in my opinion.
Boricuaex
I have no sympathy for these guys. You don’t want to be gay, or stereotyped, good…get your ass back into a closet then, shut the door and stay there. Get lost.
Lindsay Ashly Dillard
Why not say “masculine”? Straight acting reeks of self loathing and shame of being gay.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: Funny, you’re always claiming you know how to read better than everyone else, yet you don’t seem to know what contradiction means. First you were saying fems get such a hard way to go in the LGB community. Then you saw an opportunity to oppose me and fems all of a sudden became super appreciated by the LGB community. Your whole being is basically contradictory: the aggressive victim. Most times you’re attacking everyone you disagree with and other times you’re in this very melodramatic self-victimizing role (I say role because I think the attacks are much closer to who you truly are). You’ve made a few generalizations and negative statements about masc guys, so all your INCESSANT anti-fem accusations and complaints are just flat out hypocritical at this point.
I honestly don’t care about all your indeterminate gender issues, but sometimes you’re androgynous, and other times you say you’re fem. It’s just another example of how you generally tend to straddle both sides of the fence.
Louis
I had the pleasure today to watch a show that was not only inspirational but also uplifting.
Something I needed to see after the audacity of some of the arrogant and very intolerant posters who posted here yesterday.
The show was called The Prancing Elites about 5 black gay men who specialize in competitive dancing and they are absolutely awesome.
Before some predictable instigator claims this has nothing to do with this subject…it has EVERYTHING to do with THIS.
There was a point when they were wanting to participate in a parade in their hometown of Alabama yet their business manager dissuaded them from doing so thinking it was a bad idea.
The people in charge of the parade also claimed families would be there and it wasn’t appropriate .
Those brave young men marched to that parade the police walked up to them and told them no that they were not permitted to participate and if they did they would be escorted off the premises.
Instead of giving in to ignorance and narrowmindedness they danced beside the parade to boos, we don’t want you here that’s a man etc…
No matter what these young men accept themselves as they are they suffer cruelty discrimination and intolerance yet they keep fighting and keep going no matter what that is an inspiration.
The ones here though who continue to hold onto this delusional superiority you are never an inspiration only an embarrassment who are no better then any other bigot and that’s just a simple fact.
Instead of caring about people instead you choose to tear others down and lessen their value and worth as human beings simply because you let your own insecurities and inadequacies get in the way of actually getting to know people and get passed your personal prejudices.
I don’t hate Masc gay men I just feel that some act more like right wind religious individuals in regards to their constant mistreatment and total callousness to others within the lgbt community.
The change starts within if you have an issue with gay men who are proud of themselves and don’t feel the need to conform to society’s standards as a man then that is on you you can’t blame anyone else for that mentality except yourselves plain and simple.
Joseph Lesko
I am A Masc acting Gay guy but always battle the Body Image Stereotype, Seems in the Gay world If you are not Fit and Lean
Louis
@Masc Pride: you should have already been suspended you keep acting as if you are some pristine saint but you are just another hypocrite who already proved your own intolerance against gay men that you simply do not look at as REAL MEN.
Grow up already everyone of your comments are instigating and pretentious.
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: that’s probably because you espoused a personal prejudice.
As I’ve learned though in my lifetime as you will one day not everyone is the same.
I don’t fit all Masc guys in the same box that wouldn’t be fair.
bottom250
@Lovelife: That is so sad sweetheart, Be the queen you are meant to be don’t allow others decide who you are or how to act. Big Hugs for you.
Masc Pride
@Louis: …annnnnnnd just like I predicted yesterday (when you were supposedly sooooooo done with me), here you are preaching, bitching and making things up yet again. I think if this whole community got along better, folks like you, AB and Giancrazy wouldn’t know what to do. You’d have no purpose. lol
@Joseph Lesko: IMO masculinity trumps fitness levels. I love going to the gym to push myself, but I’ve dated a few guys that weren’t really into it and weren’t very fit (moobs and all). Different body types can still be sexy in their own way. Hot bodies are a dime a dozen in the gay community, natural masculinity…not so much!
Masc Pride
@Lindsay Ashly Dillard: It’s good old sensationalism. I didn’t really see the term at in the actual quotes. “Straight-acting” evokes more vitriol. Though “masculine/masc” seems to conjure up a good amount of hostility here as well. lol
TomOH
This whole article is literally mocking guys who are gay but not effeminate – and yet those who are apparently more fem are chiming in in the comments trying to act like the victims, when they’re being just as narrow minded, pinheaded, and presumptuous themselves.
Some gay men just simply don’t prescribe to your quintessential *brand* of how you feel all gay men should talk, walk, dress and behave. Tough shit.
DarkZephyr
@TomOH: “This whole article is literally mocking guys who are gay but not effeminate”
No it isn’t. Its just mocking the ones who cried about it on Whisper. Most butch gay men that I know don’t complain about this “struggle” or whine about how they hate “the scene” and hate being identified with their gay brothers who are “effeminate” and listen to Lady Gaga. There are true and genuine REAL masculine gay men who looked at this article and laughed at the absurdity of it all. You just don’t know it because they have not turned being “Masc” into their freaking identity itself and they don’t ramble on about how masc they are to anyone who will listen. Because a truly masculine man doesn’t *need* to do that.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: How did I expose a personal prejudice when I said the ones I have came across so far have been like that(which is why I find them annoying) but that doesn’t mean I won’t meet any how aren’t and that it just may be the ones around where I live.
All you do is put labels on people without explaining where you’re drawing these conclusions preaching like you do know wrong and are on such a higher level than me and other people move along and bother someone else. You know nothing about me and what I’ve been through and learned throughout my life.
Avery Alvarez
@Curty: 5% always seemed too low to me, too.
Maybe 5% out, or open about it to some extent.
But 5% total? No, I don’t think so.
bldoutcolr
@AtticusBennett:
I have no vested interest in this subject, but I do have an interest in civil debate and logical integrity. Therefore, I thought it may be helpful to point out that you seem to have a habit of relying of fallacy in many of the arguments you’ve made. Just in this thread you’ve relied (heavily) on ad hominem, a bit of allegory, the fallacy fallacy, and possibly some genetic fallacy. I’ll include examples of each, for your reference:
Ad hominem:attacking a person’s character rather than the content of their argument. e.g. “your post was internalized-homophobia incarnate. you’ll never find a man. not because you’re so masculine, because you’re not. but because you’re so deluded and lost in your insecurity that you can’t see how it’s already crippled you. conrgats. you’re a gay man who doesn’t like gay men. enjoy being alone. permanently” (Self explanatory, really. The enjoy being alone permanently was a nice touch.)
Anecdotal: using a personal experience or isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence. eg. “i have never met a perceived-“masculine gay man” who has a problem, in any way, with “effeminacy”, or “gay culture”, or “pop music”, or “drag queens” – that’s exclusively the domain of the Insecure Homosexual – and i don’t liken insecurity with masculinity.” (Here you imply that because you, personally have never met a gay man who has a distate for these things, any that exist must be insecure.)
Fallacy fallacy: presuming that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made,the claim itself must be wrong. “your straw-man arguments are so stupid that you have effectively proved all of the rest of us correct, and utterly perjured yourself.” (Self explanatory. You discredit the other persons argument by claiming it as a strawman argument as opposed to addressing the point.)
Genetic fallacy:judging something on the basis of where it comes from or from who it came.”every time a gay men denigrates and complains about ‘feminine gays’ what he’s really doing is telling the world that his daddy makes fun of those types of gays. and he’s still scared of disappointing his daddy. every time a gay men denigrates and complains about ‘feminine gays’ what he’s really doing is telling the world that his daddy makes fun of those types of gays. and he’s still scared of disappointing his daddy.” (Presuming people that disagree with you just have daddy issues and that’s why they have the arguments and opinions they do, which you deem morally unsound.)
There may be more, but this post is already long enough. I’ve seen you post both on queerty and towleroad and read your blog occasionally, and it is clear you are both intelligent and passionate about gay rights which are both very good qualities. But I’ve also noticed that you have a tendency to make arguments in an unsound and oftentimes combative way, which only helps to discredit your arguments and dissuade people from learning from your point of view, which is why I decided to drop this post here. For reference fit you or anyone else want to brush up on ways to make your discourse more effective this is extremely helpful:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: What have you ever said that made any sense here? You said you hate fems… we get it. You’re a self depreciating fool who is homophobic towards certain gay men you don’t like. Seriously, you’ve said enough to bury yourself already.
@Masc Pride: You’re a total buffoon. I never contradicted myself. I explained my rationale behind the statements I made. You just suffer from reading comprehension issues.
“Then you saw an opportunity to oppose me and fems all of a sudden became super appreciated by the LGB community. Your whole being is basically contradictory: the aggressive victim.”
This just shows how much of a brainless idiot you are. I never said that. I said fems are victimized by other uber-masculine idiots like you. Fems are generally accepted by other feminine guys, and that is my own experience. Learn how to fucking read you dimwit. There is nothing contradictory there.
You are passive-aggressive to such an extreme extent.
“I honestly don’t care about all your indeterminate gender issues, but sometimes you’re androgynous, and other times you say you’re fem.”
I’m both, you brainless tool. You don’t know anything about androgynous people at all. Nothing AT ALL. You are so full of yourself and you don’t bother opening your mind to what others have to say. You are so ridiculously closed minded and ignorant.
And what are you getting at? That I’m trans? No… I’m a guy. But you just can’t wrap your mind around the fact that I am not living by your stupid gender norms that you adhere to like a cult.
Giancarlo85
And what the heck is the “LGB” community? Stop making up terms. There is no such thing.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: What you’re doing is backpedaling. You tried to come up with reasons to justify your contradiction, but that doesn’t negate the fact that you definitely contradicted yourself. I don’t want to know you, and you’re not very open-minded or tolerant of those you disagree with. Everything you say about me can easily and very reasonably be thrown back you. Your hypocrisy is the only consistent thing about you. We don’t have to take McShane’s word, your own behavior proves everything he said about you, particularly these two:
“You actively seek to dominate others and “win” at all costs. You hate to lose any argument and will viciously defend your web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.”
“Your conversation’s show disrespect and callous disregard for others yet you will be overly sensitive and overly defensive if someone even mildly criticizes you.”
You commonly display a good number of Histrionic Personality Disorder hallmarks. You need professional help.
Clark35
Some bi and gay men are feminine/effeminate, some are masculine, some are androgynous, and a lot are none of these and there’s not anything wrong with any of this.
I happen to be bisexual and masculine and I have never had a “struggle”. Whisper is silly, and I don’t go on there or pay attention to it besides what gets posted here on queerty. The scene was fun when I was younger and when I would go to a local bar in college where pretty much everyone LGBT went to both at the university and in the community; but I only go to bars now when friends of mine want to go, or when I’m really bored.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: You can’t even reply to anyone without insulting them or calling them some kind of name. All you’ve done is call me, Masc Pride or anybody else who you decided to try and go after some sort of name which shows you don’t really know how to have a conversation. So enlighten what have I said the makes me homophobic? Because I’m not sure you know what homophobic really means because even your running mate in here said I seem to have a bias which is nothing near being a homophobic.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Mask pride, I need to make it very clear to you that I have never backpeddled at any point. I leave that to a hypocrite like you to do so. There was no contradiction. This is just another case of your idiocy and piss poor reading comprehension. You remind me of Dubya… “Is our children learning?”. Apparently you missed the point once again. I didn’t expect any less from a blockhead like you that keeps repeating the same garbage in every post. You insist I made a contradiction yet can’t be bothered to prove your stupid claim. You’re extremely bigoted and intolerant of anyone who may be remotely different than you. You insist we all live by your ideas of gender norms. I have demonstrated absolutely no hypocrisy and for goodness sakes man come up with your own original thoughts. Stop repeating things I have said about you.
You demonstrate two behaviorial conditions. One being narcissistic personality disorder and the other is bipolar personality disorder. Professional help huh? You need some serious medication for your mental conditions.
@TriForceKid1013: I have made it very clear to you that neither of you have much of a case. You just post more paragraphs of incoherent bullshit. You repeat yourselves incessantly (this is why you’re both narcissists). I’m pretty sure… actually 100% certain you look at yourselves in the mirror and get turned on by looking at yourselves. You are so into yourself and anyone differently than you or your standards must be discriminated against. You are homophobic because you discriminate against certain gay men that don’t fit into your norms and standards. I know what the word means.
Please you two buffoons… come up with your own line of thought and stop trying to turn everything around. You look like idiots in the end and nobody likes idiots.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: I explained your definite contradiction pretty clearly. What happened to your exceptional reading comprehension? Again, the proof is in your own writing and your attempt to backpedal after the fact. Question my intelligence all you want. However, it’s you that has been reduced to hostility and name-calling, which is also indicative of a person who lacks the intellectual capabilities to to express disagreement in a more civilized manner. As I said, you’re very consistent with the hypocrisy.
It’s also rather interesting how you’re free to step outside “gender norms” as you please, yet those of us that don’t feel trapped in the wrong body (or whatever other batshit logic is trending amongst you folks at the moment) are accused of gender conformity or some type of cult-like mentality. One thing I will give you people, you all are quite clever with the reverse psychology and ad hominem.
Jacob23
@AtticusBennett: Yeah, funny that in this convo with this older guy, he did not mention Harvey Milk as an icon. That would have made sense and I would have understood and appreciated it. Instead, he only identified women. Troubled women who died of drug overdoses. It is bizarre that I, as a newly out young gay man, would be inculcated into this idea that I should identify with women, let alone women who died tragically. And as I mentioned, it went beyond that to cover all sorts of crap like snapping fingers and referring to other gay men as if they were females. This idea that gay men aren’t really men and are sorta kinda like women is also part of the reason for the invention of LGBT, a concept that Harvey Milk rejected.
This is not OK in my book. That guy wasn’t trying to help me. He was trying to indoctrinate me so that he wouldn’t feel quite so alone in his manhood fail. F*ck him and you and the horse you rode in on. I think the guys in the original post and a lot of other regular gay guys are fed up with this and realize that just because they are gay it doesn’t mean they have to mindlessly accept these supposed features of “gay culture.” We’ll chart our own path and be ourselves. Thanks for “helping” and go away.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: I’m 100% certain you are arguing just to argue not liking something does not mean I hate it choosing not to surround myself with people who I have had bad run ins with does not mean I hate a entire group of gay men it means I don’t want to be around them because it different things.
About being a narcissist wrong again I don’t even look at myself in the mirror unless I’m shaving and am very shy when I first meet people in person. But true to form you found another name to call us while adding nothing to the conversation. It’s funny that you tell us to come up with our own line of thought but isn’t my/our line of thinking what made you come at me/us in the first place because apparently we have our own way of thinking that is different from what you feel it should be.
Funny how you say I keep repeating myself when all you’ve done is rewrite the same 2 posts in different words for 2 days now maybe the reason I repeat myself is because you aren’t saying anything that warrants a different response all you are doing is coming up with new ways to call me a homophobic. I think you need to read bldoutcolr’s post because it sums you up perfectly and I bet I know what’s coming next you’ll say I can’t read or attack how I write on a message board (like I’m getting graded or something) or come up with a new diagnosis for me all while calling me some kind of names and repeat I’m homophobic for the 100th time.
Mark Stevenson
Stereotypes are limiting. Just be yourself if they don’t like you the you wouldn’t want them as a friend.
Andre Labelle
true
CianTheMighty
The struggle is… just a struggle. It’s like having a lisp, or a name as weird as my own. I’ve stopped introducing myself for fear that someone is going to call me sai-ann or cayenne or Shawn that one time someone really fucked it up.
It’s not the worst thing in the world, but it’s irritating to see so many of us trying to dictate the behaviour of others. It’s insulting to be called an inauthentic liar because a gay man can’t identify me as a potential fuck on sight. Beleive me when I say that there are other ways to tell.
csports286
Oh cry me a goddamn river! I can’t express how much I loathe the ‘not into the gay scene’, str8 acting, masc 4 masc guys. Like just get over it. They’re so full of –it. You can tell by the 5th confession up there, ‘I’m so confused about what I like’. You shouldn’t have to be unless it’s an act!! I hang out with girls all the time and my friend was like ‘gays are really good with hair and makeup’, which is true of me. But even if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be offended. It’s just so sad how these guys are so sensitive about their perceived masculinity. A true man can be himself and doesn’t need to proclaim his manhood.
bottom250
Hugs men you are all amazing people my beauties.
David Conan
You guys don’t go through anything it’s us fems that any article should be about.
Alan David Smith
can some one please tell me what straight acting is. the implication that I get is that gay men like musical’s and straight men like foot ball. the truth is the last time I payed remote attention to football. Montana was with the 49’ers. and the closest I have to a musical is xanadu. where does this put me?
bottom250
@David Conan: So true sweetheart the years of bullying.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Yet you haven’t pointed out any contradiction. You keep going on and on with the same old tired claim about some contradiction. I explained to you how there wasn’t any contradiction. You keep lying and engaging in strawman attacks. I feel as if you’re just a bot… you keep repeating the same nonsense. Are you tired of this or do you want to continue?
And you accusing me of lacking civility that’s ironic. You are the biggest hypocrite on this site. You are also one of the most confrontational and nasty posters most people tend to avoid. I don’t know why I tried to engage any sort of discussion with you. It’s obvious you don’t know how to discuss anything without resort to strawman attacks. You have to attack my gender now, which just about proves every single point I have made.
“yet those of us that don’t feel trapped in the wrong body (or whatever other batshit logic is trending amongst you folks at the moment) are accused of gender conformity or some type of cult-like mentality.”
More of the same old stupid character attacks. First off, where did I say I felt trapped in the wrong body? I’m not the one living to old antiquated cultural norms. You are definitely conforming to societal standards. Your entire life is based on those standards.
“One thing I will give you people, you all are quite clever with the reverse psychology and ad hominem.”
“you people”? Yeah that just about says it all about how much of a condescending douchebag you are and how much of a hypocrite you are. You are completely incapable of any rational form of discussion.
Giancarlo85
@TriForceKid1013: Man oh man… to even go through this. Do you know sentence structure? How about not writing a bunch of run-on sentences? You and the other clown keep repeating the same bullshit everytime and now you’re trying to use things I’ve said to you. You fail miserably at every aspect of discussion.
“Funny how you say I keep repeating myself when all you’ve done is rewrite the same 2 posts in different words for 2 days now”
Again, this is just another example of you recycling things I’ve said to you. I didn’t rewrite anything. I’m responding to the constant flow of garbage from Mask Pride and you.
“I bet I know what’s coming next you’ll say I can’t read or attack how I write on a message board”
Look… sometimes I make typos, but when your posts are incoherent I will criticize them. You are not capable in making a point clearly and your posts are hard to decipher. You are all over the place and it seems to me you can’t organize your thoughts clearly.
Giancarlo85
I can’t believe MASK pride called me trans lol. He really has no clue what being androgynous means. I guess living in a closet his whole life gives him a demented view of the world.
Giancarlo85
@csports286: “It’s just so sad how these guys are so sensitive about their perceived masculinity. A true man can be himself and doesn’t need to proclaim his manhood.”
This is the truth and explains several posters on here very well, including Mask Pride… who is hellbent on proving his masculinity to everyone on here. Someone else said that many of the so called “uber-masculine” types aren’t even masculine enough for each other lol.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: Honestly the only reason I’m still interacting with you is because I’m trying to see how many comments this thing can get before it’s off the front page.
Again you are saying the same thing over and over again too so here we go into day 3 of this same song and dance let’s see if we can break 400 today.
I did notice however that in your replies about my grammer and strucure it’s normally after I say something you can’t seem to try and dispute. Is this different enough for you teach?
onthemark
@TriForceKid1013: Go 400! Go 400! Go 400! Okay, I’ll throw one in. Btw – before he corrects you (and I know he will) it’s spelled “grammar.”
The only “struggle” in this comment thread is with severe Vitamin D deficiency.
Monday (May 25) was especially puzzling – a beautiful HOLIDAY all over the US (except maybe around Houston where it was flooding) and everybody here was typing away!
I guess the “fem” guys never go outside because the sunlight will melt their eyeliner & makeup?
And of course, the “masc” guys are in the closet where the sunlight never hits them!
notevenwrong
This is a manufactured “problem.”
“Straight-acting” men have all the power in mainstream gay culture, which for the most part looks down on fem guys. Have these complainers ever even opened up a gay dating site, watched gay porn, gone to gay bars, or read the comments on sites like this one? In a majority of these places fem guys are belittled and treated as if they were toxic.
So cry me a river. I call bullsh*t on these whiny “masc” guys’ complaints.
Kenneth Cosmo Ruisi
It’s hard.
MarcusFenix
I have a problem when people have and exaggerated form of their personality. Be it masculine or feminine be it male or female. That is the reason why I don’t like the “gay scene” or the “straight scene” As a gay man who is bothered by this it’s really hard to find people to connect with. I hate it when people exaggerate or focus on one personality trait.
No problem with femininty or masculinity but when it’s all about like like like, selfie selfie selfie omg omg omg or dude bro dang sup you lose me. ( these were uses as an example to illustrate stereotypes )
notevenwrong
@MarcusFenix, most people on the gay “scene” are not exaggerated, not that there is anything wrong with it. In my experience, when people do this, it is mostly as a form of irony. Unfortunately so many of the straight-acting gay guys are humor-challenged.
AtticusBennett
the only, and i mean ONLY, struggle represented in any of these Whispers or Comments is the struggle with internalized homophobia. that’s it.
and it’s a struggle you guys are gonna battle for a long time, because you’re so far unable to make the first step: realizing it’s internalized homophobia, and addressing it, and working to overcome it.
this has nothing to do with interests, or your look or manner, your aesthetic, or your hobbies. it has everything to do with how so many of you “Struggling” haven’t put two and two together yet – you’re still viewing masculinity through the prism of anti-gay heterosexuality, and you don’t WANT to be “like those gays” – it has zero to do with “well, we have nothing in common”. you don’t want to have anything in common with “those gays” – and that’s why you’re gonna be alone and miserable online. until you get over it.
AtticusBennett
@TomOH: “Some gay men just simply don’t prescribe to your quintessential *brand* of how you feel all gay men should talk, walk, dress and behave. Tough shit.”
the best part is that nobody has actually done or said that. that’s YOUR projection. and your kind always projects it.
what you really mean is “stop telling me to be the kind of gay my daddy made fun of” – even though nobody’s told you to do that. your problem is that you, as a gay man, are still desperately trying to convince daddy that you’re not like Those Other Gays. and nobody’s fooled.
Bauhaus
@AtticusBennett:
“you’re still viewing masculinity through the prism of anti-gay heterosexuality”
Yes. Many people still do, gay and straight.
Gay masculinity (for lack of a better description), is beginning to broaden how we view masculinity overall. Until recently, masculinity was defined by straight men. Not any more. Not from what I see, anyway.
Masc Pride
@Giancarlo85: I love how you’re always just a victim no matter how viciously you’ve attacked others. I wasn’t expecting you to own up to your contradictory statements because I know your type NEVER does. Several members in here have already pointed out your hypocrisy, immaturity and determination to always prove yourself right even if that means making things up (all tell-tale signs of Histrionic Personality Disorder).
You do plenty of masc-bashing but flip out if you feel like someone has said something your hypersensitive mind deems anti-fem. You keep saying masc guys are always trying to prove themselves by talking about masculinity, yet I can’t count the number of times you’ve gone on and on about being androgynous. You often find ways to work it in when it’s not even remotely germane to topic, so what exactly are YOU trying to prove?? You’ve consistently shown yourself to be the exact same things you’re always whining about, yet you shamelessly continue to attempt to correct the behavior of others.
I know your life’s purpose is to have the last word in every argument, so I’ll let you have it. You’re welcome.
Louis
@lauraspencer: sorry dear that’s not fair simply because you have a different perspective.
Some here clearly think they can speak to people anyway they want to.
Louis
@bottom250: that was so sweet. 🙂
TriForceKid1013
@onthemark: Damn didn’t even make it to 350 lol
Louis
@Masc Pride: no that would be your purpose considering you are incessant when it comes to proving your superiority which is constantly obvious about you.
You the childish one using that same disrespectful insensitive and totally classless comment claiming people are whining.
You have no integrity much less humility and you continue to prove this about yourself .
Smh shameful.
Louis
@Masc Pride: I’m flagging your comments and rolling my eyes at the people behind this site once AGAIN allowing your intentionally instigating and disrespectful comments to immediately post and mine to automatically be spammed.
You continue to prove yourself to be a pretentious classless little hypocrite and you have wasted enough of my time.
I have my standards when it comes to the type of people I converse with much less want yo converse with .
Louis
@TriForceKid1013: ironic considering that’s exactly how both yours and Masc comments consistently come across as.
As far as what I originally said to you in regards to intolerance blame yourself for that you specifically said You didn’t like “them” .
That onus us on you and you alone dude that’s not the way my mind works.
Let’s also be real here if you think some Masc guys can’t be rude or act like a s s e s then you live in a delusional biased world period.
Louis
@csports286: ty for putting it so honestly you said it perfectly.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Tell me where I once said anything remotely close to masc guys not acting like asses too dont think I did. I’ll tell you the same thing I did that other one who can’t keep my name off his finger tips I was only still commenting on this to see how many comments it could get to before it left the main page.
I stopped caring along time ago never really did to begin with if I would’ve known asking a question was going to lead to me having to talk to you 3 for this I wouldn’t have never asked to begin with. You aren’t going to change my mind about anything and vice versa so agree to disagree and move on.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Are you still going at it? Still posting the same old recycled bullshit? Do you have any new material to share or is it all the same? I’d love to keep this going for days, but it’s getting quite old and tiring. Come up with something new, kid… then we can talk.
“Several members in here have already pointed out your hypocrisy, immaturity and determination to always prove yourself right even if that means making things up”
Blah blah blah more of the same unproven nonsense. I didn’t make anything up. I leave that to you. But then again you suffer from narcissistic personality disorder.
I go after fake idiots like you who try to be “uber-masculine” and bash on feminine guys. I’ve said I’m androgynous a few times, you’ve said you’re very masculine many more times… and it is said in your name. You’re an immature self-centered egotistical piece of shit.
WHat have you ever proved? Asides from the big whining baby you are?
TriForce is much of the same. The idiot repeats something he said three days ago. Nothing original there.
Giancarlo85
@Louis: He’s a total hypocrite douchebag who tries to fling his own faults onto others. He’s one of the most immature clowns on here. He saids all sorts of people are criticizing me… when in reality it’s just him and this triforce child who doesn’t even know how to put together a complete sentence.
TriForceKid1013
@Giancarlo85: What have you said that’s so different than what you started saying 3 days ago? It’s funny you say my post are so incoherent yet you replied to every single one trying to debate (unsuccessfully) what you allegedly couldn’t understand. You call me a child yet you can’t even write a post without calling someone a name or some sort of insult. Now let me guess my sentence structure is soooo bad and incomplete you can barely read this huh?
Daggerman
..this is the most controversial, hard hitting fact involving the homosexual man.
…there has to be more straight-acting gay men in this world than any other type of openly gay male—unfortunately the closets are the real enemy, because the more fear they put out the more ignorant society becomes of homosexuals. The seriousness of the problem is that they need to pluck up courage and prove that men who have sex with other men can be just as manly!!
Bauhaus
@Daggerman:
“…there has to be more straight-acting gay men in this world than any other type of openly gay male”
Closets are there BECAUSE of anti-gay, homophobic, bullies. “Manliness” has nothing to do with it.
Louis
@Giancarlo85: I agree and I’m done with those 2 I was done with Masc yesterday they can talk to the wall as far as I’m concerned.
At least you are one of the few feet who actually possesses a conscience and sensitivity for others.
Some clearly have still not gotten the memo in those regards.
TriForceKid1013
@Louis: Yea he’s real sensitive towards others well unless they have a flabby belly then they are disgusting and have given up on life.
DarkZephyr
@TriForceKid1013: “@Louis: Tell me where I once said anything remotely close to masc guys not acting like asses too dont think I did.”
I think his point was that if you hate or are annoyed by feminine gay men in general because some are assholes, to be consistent you would have to hate or be annoyed by masculine gay men in general as well for the same reasons, but obviously you don’t. Some butch gay men ARE assholes because there are assholes in every grouping of people. Some effeminate gay men are assholes too. Assholes are everywhere. Each one of us can be an asshole at times, because its human nature. I think it would be really cool if you could just let go of your dislike for a whole subgroup of people that is based on the actions of some. And I think that was Louis’ point. 🙂
Anyway, I hope you have a good Friday.
TriForceKid1013
@DarkZephyr: Where did I say I don’t get annoyed by masc gay men who act like assholes? That was never even brought up till now so I don’t know what brought you to that conclusion. Also did you not see I said that I may meet one I get along with but I haven’t yet so how does that equate to dislike of a whole subgroup?
FairyQing
I happen to be what they call straight-acting and so not steretypical,
And I must sincerely say, that I consider all this stuff whining.
If you honestly whine about how you are perceived while some fem guys are being ridiculed by many LGBT and most society, that are harshly bullied while you just live your life then I have to say “I’m sorry, not meaning anything sexist, but grow a pair”
Being naturally masculine and not having to hide your nature is a privilege we never earned and if not for the transgenders, drags and flamboyant guys in the Stonewall Inn we would just keep blending in and living in a conformist hell.
So I want to thank all the genderqueer people and apologize for all the pain my kind inflicted and keeps inflicting out of cowardice and conformism.
FairyQing
@Keith Ryli McDonald:
I agree totally. No idea when did straight people get a trademark and copyright on my way of acting, lol
And excuse me for objectifying you, but you are unbearably cute 😀
Tim Hoo
I know this is an old article but I think it’s still very relevant. The problem with this conversation is that the vocal majority (effeminate guys) are not interested in hearing or understanding the experience of traditionally masculine-leaning gay men. You are more interested in shutting us down and invalidating our experience because we don’t fit into the notions of sexuality that you’ve adopted. Sounds a lot like what straight people have been doing to gay people forever, and it sounds a lot like you are hypocrites. In fact, it is very similar to the erasure of bisexual males that is so rampant in the gay community. Your developmental personal injuries regarding being “manly enough” are not the topic at hand, and your bias against masculinity is apparent. How about you just shut up and listen? If you were really about unity and community, you’d be trying to create a space for every kind of gay man, not just yourself. Anyway, regarding effeminate guys being more ‘brave’ or ‘confident’ I offer this: insecurity is loud. Confidence is quiet.
Outcastalways
This why I hate most gays. There is too much BS about straight acting gay men being as such due to not wanting to be known as gay or being insecure about it. It can’t be further from the truth! Maybe some of us just are turned off by feminine men because we want a man to be MANLY. I grew up like a normal guy around normal acting men. I’m not straight acting, that is a biased term. I’m just not a wrist snapping soft girly voiced personality. In public one would never guess I’m gay. I’m a versatile submissive guy even but that doesn’t show when I walk either. I don’t sway my hips I walk like a normal dud I have gay feminine friends and that’s fine with me. I just can’t be with one in a relationship. I want a masculine man. People need to be more accepting of “straight actors” as they call us when they demand to be treated normal by society and do stupid pride parades. I hate all of that garbage it’s rude to society.
MarioSmario
I always thought I was somewhat “gay acting” but not completely. I’m very masculine looking and I like man things, mostly. Most people have said I look “straight.” In fact, when I go to gay bars, I often get completely ignored by bartenders and most the patrons despite that I’ve been told I’m “ruggedly handsome” and “the best looking guy at the bar.” I complained once to a friend about how I get hissed at at bars or people will talk to all my friends and refuse even eye contact with me, and he casually said, as if surprised I didn’t realize, “It’s because they think you’re straight.”