What do closed door gay rights meetings get you? A massive public relations and logistical nightmare, that’s what. And it’s exactly what organizers of October’s march on Washington for gay rights are looking at after their top-down attempt at organizing to get hundreds of thousands of Americans to hit D.C. on October 11 got hit with a snag: No fewer than three organizations already secured permits to march on Washington that day, all but guaranteeing the gays will be denied. Sure, they can pick another date, but let’s be clear: Their big attempt at publicizing our struggle was bungled because of poor organizing. (Literally, one phone call to the National Parks Service would’ve cleared things up. But Cleve Jones, who chose the date, didn’t lift the receiver.)
You read on Queerty yesterday about how, after the Saturday Meet In The Middle rally in Fresno, a group of gay rights organizers met on Sunday.
We shared with readers the words and frustration of activist Michael Petrelis, who called bullshit on the meeting for instituting a closed-door invite-only policy — the same anti-democratic organizing effort that sunk the No On Prop 8 effort. We also noted Queerty received no notice of the meeting. But our comments were flooded with folks who said they attended the meeting, that it was well publicized, that they had an open-door policy.
But — and there’s a big but here — even folks who were there admit there was a closed meeting. (Here’s commenter Jon, who says he was there: “The meeting was streamed live on UNITETHEFIGHT.com (except for the closed portion).”) Indeed, hub site unitethefight.blogspot.com mentions that after a problem with the wifi connection, “they asked all press and friendly bloggers like me to stop recording anyway (sensitive information discussed at the meeting – full story in article tomorrow).” Queerty could not find a “full story” that followed on that blog. And even if we could, it still wouldn’t erase the fact that Unite The Right had no plans on even live streaming the event to the public until Petrelis, on May 30, asked if MITM organizers would do it.
(NB: The event was supposedly open to the press, except for all the alleged openness, the only videos we could find on YouTube from Fresno are clips of public spaces from Saturday’s rally and some from Sunday’s anti-equality reality by opponents; search for “Fresno Sunday” and there’s nothing. We also could not find any press photos from major news outlets from the Sunday event. If you can, please share the links.)
So what was so secret that organizers needed the press (who did manage to attend, like the Associated Press’ Lisa Leff freelance reporter) to go off the record while bloggers and Twitters were commanded to go offline?
Organizers like parent-turned-activist Robin McGhee (pictured), who founded MITM, were going to share polling data with attendees, which was what the media was actually most hungry for (nevermind that the results may be inaccurate, given the recent California Supreme Court ruling on Prop 8). Also, nevermind that in the bungling of No On Prop 8, it was the decision to keep that poll data — which conflicted with the polls the media reported on — a secret that drew some of the loudest criticism toward organizers.
(Clarification: The AP’s Lisa Leff did not attend the event, but the newswire sent a reporter to cover Sunday’s meeting — only after Leff heard about the meeting through the grapevine, and not because organizers invited the AP.)
In discussions leading up to Sunday’s private meeting, Queerty has learned there was still no official decision made whether organizers would open things up for reporters. On Friday when organizers distributed the weekend’s agenda to insiders, recipients were asked not to share it with the media. Not exactly the beacon of democratic organizing we’ve been led to believe.
Meanwhile, we hear the Courage Campaign’s Rick Jacobs is calling around insisting he had nothing to do with Sunday’s closed-door meeting. And not to get too “conspiracy theory” on you, but one source with knowledge of the goings-on says Jacobs and the Courage Campaign organized an effort to flood Queerty‘s original post with criticism of our report and leave positive notes for the organization, throwing the comment thread’s credibility into doubt.
Sounds like someone doesn’t want to be associated with this mess?
Or, maybe Jacobs really doesn’t have anything to do with that how that meeting was run. That, at least, would explain why the Courage Campaign’s Thursday email invitation to attend the Fresno rally, with a special note from star-power-flower Charlize Theron, didn’t include any mention of this oh-so-open Sunday hotel meeting among insider-y organizers (reprinted below).
As for October’s planned march on Washington, it may still go on. Cleve Jones, who sounds like he really had no idea some 135,000 people from other organizations were expected on the National Mall on his day of choice, tells Gay City News, “We are flexible on the route, flexible on the location. The mall is not my top choice. I would rather have the march in the streets and end at the Lincoln Memorial.”
We’re not going to pretend we have every fact in this saga; we don’t, and no amount of reporting can gather them. But what we do have is evidence of another systematic fuck-up by gay rights organizers — of the same variety that tanked our effort to defeat Prop 8. It’s hard to fault activists whose end goal is admirable, but how many times can we forgive and rationalize a strategy that’s proven to be weak and inadequate?
Perhaps we’re lucky, this time, that we’re “only” talking about a march on Washington, and not something serious … like our civil rights.
COURAGE CAMPAIGN’S EMAIL INVITATION (No mention of supposedly open-for-all Sunday meeting)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:09:58 -0400
From: “Charlize Theron, Courage Campaign”
To: Rex Wockner
Subject: We need to meet on SaturdayAcademy Award-winning actor Charlize Theron asked us to send this important reminder to the Courage Campaign community. Please spread the word by forwarding this message before Saturday’s big event.
Meanwhile, you can follow @CourageCampaign on Twitter for Meet in the Middle updates this weekend.
Rick Jacobs
Chair, Courage Campaign—–
Dear Courage Campaign supporter,
We need to meet.
All of us. At 1 p.m. this Saturday, May 30.
In Fresno, the heartland of California.
Four days after the state Supreme Court upheld Proposition 8, thousands of people organized by more than 100 organizations are coming together in a major event unlike any other in the post-Prop 8 era.
We know the people whose lives are on the line — those who identify as gay, lesbian, bi-sexual or transgender — will be there. But we need everyone there.
Especially straight people.
Everyone.
It’s called “Meet in the Middle for Equality” and it’s going to be historic. This will be a moment you don’t want to miss — an unforgettable event in the history of the movement for equal rights.
I’ll be there. Will you? Please come to Fresno to “meet in the middle for equality” this Saturday. Click here to RSVP right now — it only takes a minute:
http://www.couragecampaign.org/MeetInTheMiddle
Why Fresno?
The battle for equality has to be fought in Middle America — in places like Fresno, California — not just in gay-friendly cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles.
California’s Central Valley population is far more reflective of national attitudes towards LGBT equality — and until we engage the communities of Middle America, we will not achieve full equality in California.
Please come to Fresno to “Meet in the Middle for Equality.” We need you. We need everyone — especially straight allies — to show up on Saturday. Will you?
http://www.couragecampaign.org/MeetInTheMiddle
This isn’t just about California. It’s about America. This isn’t just about marriage. It’s about human rights.
That’s why I’ll be there. And I hope you will as well.
See you on Saturday!
Charlize Theron
P.S. Do you want updates on Meet in the Middle texted to your cell phone? The Courage Campaign is teaming up again with CREDO Mobile to send cell phone users info as it happens. To sign up on your phone, just text “MEET” to 27336.
Courage Campaign Issues is part of the Courage Campaign’s online organizing network that empowers more than 700,000 grassroots and netroots supporters to push for progressive change and equality in California.
To power our campaign to repeal Prop 8, please chip in what you can today:
http://www.couragecampaign.org/Fearless
PLUS: Queerty received this email from Grassroots Equality Network’s executive director Brandon Santo, who tells us, “I promise you, as long as I am working with this project, it will remain a project of the community, that is not saying that some of the ego in the boys club won’t try to force me out and change it, but I am trying to set all this in place hoping that it will keep that from happening!”
I read your post about the day after the rally in Fresno, and I agree with your concerns, I hate closed door meetings and secret discussions of strategy. That is why I feel compelled to tell you a little bit more about the March on DC and what is going on with the planning.
I am one of the very first people involved in this, in fact I had discussed this march with Cleve back in November, and we were thinking about doing it in 2010. After he went and announced that he wanted it this October, I was one of the first people to become involved so I could help gear the planning structure and desires to a strong bottom up grassroots structure, where the “centralized” leadership will not be making the decisions, instead they will be acting on decisions that the grassroots committees make. There will be 435 committees that are formed by volunteers in the 435 congressional districts. Each committee will have a representative in the national committee that will relay their vote or opinion on a specific topic to the national committee, who will then act based on the vote or opinion. All of these discussions and votes will be able to be viewed in an open space online where any one can view it, allowing for transparency and accountability, as well as insuring this project remains grassroots and not in the hands of a few elite.
anyone can get involved in this planning by visiting www.nationalequalitymarch.com as of right now, the system is not fully set up, so we are just gathering information so when it is ready we can inform everyone of where they can go to join the committees and start planning.
This was actually not supposed to be announced until the system was in place, but someone leaked it and spread info that was incomplete and false. Since then I have been working overtime to get the system ready and functioning so we can start getting this movement back into the hands of the community before it is too late.
Brandon Santo
Executive Director
Grassroots Equality Network
www.grassrootsequalitynetwork.com
christophe
Considering Queertys lack of confirming things, and lack of accuracy, who knows whether this is to be believed or not? For information and to be on the mailing list of what’s going on for the planned October March on Washington, go to http://www.nationalequalitymarch.com So far NO Host hotels have been chosen, and the “only” info on the site are the scheduled dates (which have “not” changed) Still Oct 11th &12th, in addition to signing up for the alert emails you can also forward the site info to all your friends.
Sonnie Swenston-Forbes
Who knows what’s what in this story. Unfortunately, there are lots of opinions, lots of half-facts, and lots of judgments. There is no complete picture containing all of the facts anywhere.
The only thing that I know to be true is that I saw flyers that said “Meet on the Mall for Equality” October 10-11, 2009. As a matter of further fact, I’m looking at one right now. The website listed is http://nationalequalitymarch.com/ – going to that website right now, there is no reference to the Mall.
I believe that Robin Tyler said those words as well, but I’m not 100% sure on that.
Yes, following so closely on the heels of such as successful event, it is troubling to read this story (which I am reading with the proverbial grain of salt).
Maybe what we need is a team of LGBT ex-Mormons who brought their organizational skills with them.
christophe
@Sonnie Swenston-Forbes: Did you “not” read the one and only as of now post on here?????? I said the same thing and gave the “SAME” website address
Brian Miller
You know Queerty is doing excellent journalism when the apologists are the first to hop all over their coverage. 🙂
Brian Miller
But — and there’s a big but here — even folks who were there admit there was a closed meeting.
*insert obscenity-laced insult-filled non-retort retort here*
Chris
As someone who actually does organizing (and doesn’t just bitch about what other people are doing while playing World of War Craft in between ranting on Queerty), I don’t see why it’s so outrageous to have a closed portion of the meeting. Strategy is never as strong when your opponent knows all your moves. Mistakes are made. This site certainly makes its fair share on the daily.
Casey
This post was a complete mess. Stop giving so much coverage to people complaining about how things are being run! If these people have a problem with it, they should get involved – it’s really easy to do, and that’s the entire point of a grassroots movement.
It would be nice to see some real journalism on here, instead of just repeating rumors. BTW, I didn’t see any Queerty representatives at MITM on Saturday…
Joanaroo
Are there any other 5 and 6 digit text addresses and word messages available to get text updates from organizations, in addition to the one in the article? Those of us on the East Coast could learn more on what is happening in CA. And I love text info. with its immediacy.
The Gay Numbers
@Chris: I am okay with that so long as y’all got your stuff together so that people like me can show up as foot soldiers. I just ask you to not waste my time with pointless things that last for a decade and go no where. Have things for me to do, to follow up on or act upon at a later date. The last time I volunteered was in 2004, and that was for the disorganized efforts to elect Kerry. I am a willing foot soldier, but just have your shit together. I am happy to have it structure anyway necessary to get something done. I imagine that’s the sentiment of most people who just want to change this country for the better.
dgz
@Casey:
i think the logic behind “don’t complain if you’re not involved” is flawed. new recruits aren’t typically promoted to general. and btw, criticism is what we tune into queerty FOR.
and queerty is a blog, not a major newpaper. which of the three employees should’ve gone and worn the nonexistant queerty press credential? and what use would that’ve been if they weren’t going to be allowed in?
——
anywho. i cannot BELIEVE they never even checked the Mall’s availability. that’s horrific stupidity. again, we don’t have Gay Leaders, just leading gays.
Sara Beth Brooks
I was a part of Sunday’s Leadership Conference. I’d like to point out that anyone on any of the major CA mailing lists knew about Sunday’s conference, including the Revoke8 list and the OUTWest list. Obviously, more than 250 people found out about the meeting. I know that there were organizers added to the list at the last minute (even as late as Friday). There was certainly a wide variety of opinions and organizations in the room — evidence that this is not the 8 campaign. There was a common sense of ownership and empowerment. I’m sorry that Queerty folks were able to be a part of that.
I don’t have a problem with transparency in a campaign. I encourage it. I love it. It keeps us honest and it keeps us real. But I’d like to know what we gain by allowing the media to report internal polling data? Our opponents would then be able to find that data and use it against us. The obsession with transparency to extremes of internal polling data will undo our movement.
dgz
@Sara Beth Brooks:
…so the polling data was bad. is that what you’re saying?
Jon
So many accusations and inaccuracies that it’s even hard to know where to begin but here’s just a few…
1- Lisa Leff of Associated Press did not attend either Saturday or Sunday’s events as she was “unavailable”. Saturday’s AP reporter was Garance Burke and Sunday’s was Vanessa Colon.
2- The 1 hour closed portion of the meeting went through the polling data. Was the media (including it now seems Queerty) anxious to get it? Of course… and so would those who supported Prop 8. Why on earth would you release all of this detail and give your opponents a stick to beat you with? Transparency is great but political suicide does nothing for the cause.
3- You can’t find any press photos from any major news outlets because no outlet sent a photographer. Their choice. Not a conspiracy to black out any images under a cloud of “secrecy” just a decision on their part not to cover it. However there were many other folks with cameras there and I’m sure that some images will start showing up on blogs and facebook pages in the near future.
There are other errors, but honestly who has the time? So perhaps we should call bullshit on this entire series of articles. It’s starting to sound like sour grapes because an engraved sterling silver invitation wasn’t personally hand-delivered along with a obligatory ass-kissing to those crying “foul”.
Sara Beth Brooks
@dgz: No, what I actually said was that any polling data that our community has paid for is useful to the opposition. Whatever they might be able to construe from the results of the polling, I don’t want to give them the opportunity to construe at all.
getreal
@Sara Beth Brooks: Hey Sara so glad you are speaking truth on this site unfortunately a lot of posters here do zero activism and criticize anyone who is actually doing anything. Also some very vicious people on here pick a user name NEVER your own. Signed your Taco Bell in San Diego buddy. Our event rocked you would have had so much fun. Sshh no real names on this site.
Katie
I was at MITM and the meeting was publicized. It’s not like it was a secret where it was going to be and when.
Also, I concur about the strategy thing, element of surprise usually works best. And, who knows what personal stories may have been revealed or whatever. It’s a sensitive issue.
Eric
You know why the LGBT movement isn’t really getting anywhere?
Because ya’ll keep on bickering! What a bunch of damn drama queens.
sam
@Eric: Getting anywhere? It’s getting plenty of places.
Perhaps not in california, but there are plenty of victories goiong around. small ones perhaps, but victories nonetheless.
jason
Sometimes I despair at the appalling “ground level” ineptitude of the gay community. At the level of the web, at least sites like queerty are on the ball.
jason
I sometimes feel that the gay elite think they own the gay rights movement. They don’t. Gay rights MUST always come from the grass roots. The gay elite need to listen to the grass roots and stop acting like royalty.
chris
This is such poor planning on the part of these folks who want to organize this event. Start working together people, and don’t assume that our march will be small enough to allow ANY other group of any size to hold a permit the same weekend.
If others have permits for the same weekend, you guys did an incredibly poor job of pre-planning.
Step aside old activists – let a few younger people in the door. They may be less likely to F*^k anything up, as you have done ALREADY.
Eric
Arm back quarterbacking (the only type of sport I even get near) is fun and easy isn’t it? I mean, yeah these people probably do screw up. Making an oversight like not calling the place you plan on going to make sure its alright you end up there is a pretty big screw up to be sure, but unless someone else is willing to step up and do a better job, it gets pretty hard to blame these people for screwing the job up.
tdx3fan
@Sam
Care to name just one victory? One? There are none. Sure, you can stand here and say Iowa, MA, ME, NH, CT, NJ, VT are all “gay” victories. However, they really WERE NOT. They were human rights victories that were led primarily by allies based on human rights.
They were not gay led victories. There has never really been a gay led victory. As long as we keep putting clowns (I’m sorry I mean drag queens) and half naked men running through the streets of NYC in order to “promote gay awareness” the only thing we really promote what-so-fing-ever is the ability for the straight white male (who still dominates this country) to raise an objection and point at the streets when they need support for that objection.
Larry
What scares me is this idea that we’re going to overturn Prop. 8 in 2010. I read in the SF Chronicle that California voters turn down 3/4 of ballot initiatives, and they think they’re going to overturn Prop. 8 only two years after it was approved? It’s going to take a lot of effort to persuade all those voters who supported it to change their minds, especially white fundamentalist Christians in Orange County and the Central Valley and black fundamentalist Christians in the urban areas. They’re doing the will of God, remember? They’re not about to listen to a bunch of demon-possessed fags and dykes talking about “fairness” and thinking they have some comparability to the Civil Rights marchers of the 50s and 60s. I’m not saying they never will, but it’ll take a lot more than just two years.
Alec
@Larry: Particularly difficult in an off year election; Republican turnout will probably be higher than usual, and Democratic turnout lower than usual.
atdleft
@christophe: Yes, it’s still BS. I can’t believe Queerty is really doing this. Folks like Robin McGehee worked so hard to make last weekend so successful in Fresno. And what does Queerty do? They piss all over her good work. I’m really starting to wonder if “Morning Goods” is the best quality “journalism” left on this site.
@Larry & @Alec: But hold on, let’s remember that many of those fundie wingnuts may not turn out in 2010 as well. And with either Gavin Newsom or Jerry Brown on top of the Democratic ticket that year as well as likely ballot initiatives to legalize marijuana and repeal the 2/3 budget rule, we may see more progressives turn out who will also vote to repeal H8. There are many factors to consider here. And while I can’t go into details with the polling, all I can say is we’re currently in a dead heat and there are things we can easily do to bump up our numbers over 50%.
So why not 2010?
Condolizzaa Rice
‘Rice, Livni involved in love affair’
Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:16:30 GMT
A Former Israeli education minister has accused the US secretary of state and Israeli Foreign Minster of having a sexual relationship.
Limor Livnat, who is an Israeli Knesset (parliament) member, has told Benjamin Netanyahu that Condoleezza Rice and Tzipi Livni have sexual affairs.
Meanwhile, an American newspaper has quoted Rice as saying that she is a lesbian and has bought her partner an apartment in New York in order to engage in sexual conduct.
My partner has never had a relationship with a man, Rice said.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=34323§ionid=351020202
Mark Collins
What will lose the next election is the kind of moronic thinking illustrated in this post.
Why the hell would we want to have wide-open, internet-broadcast meetings about strategy and polling data? That is giving information to the opposition, and it is nothing less than surrendering the election.
To win a campaign, someone needs to be in charge. Someone needs to make decisions. And the information those decisions are based upon simply cannot be shared universally.
Polling shows us which messages work, and which ones don’t. Why would we give that information to our opponents? Trust me, they read this website, too. And I cannot understand why anyone would propose that we broadcast our strategy to the other side. Why raise $20-40 million for a campaign if we going to intentionally throw the contest?
Alec
@atdleft: As far as polling, Proposition 8 was failing by double digits at one point in the summer, according to the Field Poll. And it is generally more difficult to pass these amendments. Look at the long fight over parental consent/notification in California. Three times in four years.
atdleft
@Sara Beth Brooks: Thank you, Sara! And btw, it was great seeing you on Sunday.
I’m so sick and tired of this garbage. As so many of us (and btw, we’re doing this on our own, NOT b/c Rick Jacobs told us to!) are coming forward to tell the truth on what happened over the weekend, all Queerty does is attack us. Why can’t they just ask any of us who were actually there on what happened? It’s nice that they talked to Brandon Santo, but why did they leave him until the very end while continuing with this rumor-mongering sh*t?
Again, the only “closed session” was the part covering poll data. And because the poll may help us in forming a campaign plan, we can’t let the opposition (Yes on H8/NOM) get its dirty hands on it! If Queerty had bothered to show up, they would have known that AND covered all the rest of the meeting.
Oh yes, and once more only about 3 minutes of the meeting covered the March in DC. We focused on repealing Prop H8 in CA, so it’s utterly ridiculous to act like we all secretly plotted to do a march in DC and take over the entire LGBT rights movement in one fell swoop.
I guess @getreal is right. Queerty and a few commenters here would rather do a bunch of “armchair quarterbacking” than get involved. If y’all don’t like what happened last year, then stop repeating the same damn mistakes! Get involved, BE the grassroots, and help us organize this campaign for gawd sake!
atdleft
@Mark Collins: Thank you. Finally, someone else here gets it!
@Alec: I understand that. However, this isn’t a lost cause. But if we lose momentum and compete for resources in 2012 against a ton of redistricted legislative races and a BIG Presidential campaign, we may get crowded out. And besides, we’re talking about people’s civil rights. Why wait any longer?
Alec
@atdleft: One reason: Why should money be directed from outside of CA to CA for the purpose of fighting over a term? Same-sex couples have all of the substantive rights attached to marriage in CA, just not the term itself. In the meantime, other states have passed much nastier amendments that eliminate civil unions and domestic partnerships. Things that Californians take for granted.
I’m all for a campaign on it, but I really want to know where all that energy was when the rest of the states were fighting far more draconian measures.
atdleft
@Alec: Here’s why-
1. A victory in CA next year will lead the way to more ballot box victories in more states.
2. Separate is never equal, and LGBT people are still facing real discrimination in CA.
3. Without a Presidential race next year, I don’t see why we can’t multitask and focus on CA, NY, ME, and whatever other states are facing big LGBT related elections.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to gobble up all the resources that should go to other states. I just think we can do a better job in running successful campaigns in all these states.
Jeffrey
The March on Washington would be a waste of time and resources.
Whatever might be accomplished could also be accomplished by having simultaneous marches in hundreds of cities with a tiny fraction of the money and time commitment that the DC march would require. Far more people could participate instead of just the wealthy who can afford to take time off from work, pay for airfare, hotels and meals.
misswildthing
It is astounding to me that there is such a presumption that people are not involved if they didn’t go to Fresno. I am about to lose my house, haven’t had a job in months and I cannot stand for any length of time. Going to Fresno sounds like a good idea to me. I couldn’t go, period.
And the other question, how are you supposed to know something you don’t know? If I wasn’t going to meet in the middle, I should know that the web site had info on the meeting? Again the presumptions that because you got the email, everyone did. Not true, I am really well connected and didn’t find out about the meeting until Thursday.
Also I saw the email from the “conveners” and it said specifically NO MEDIA. Not just for the polling part, no media period.
It would be really helpful if people didn’t presume to know what everyone’s experience is/was. You don’t know any more than what you accuse this site of, limited vision. You can’t know what you don’t know.
edgyguy1426
@christophe: Perhaps when Sonnie was composing his or her reponse it took a while to look up the website. Sometimes I start writing these posts and get interrupted by others things (like work-yes I know, I’m just lucky I have a job) and before I know it a few other people have already posted. Just chill. Your second post was pretty rude.
edgyguy1426
@dgz: Maybe the reason they didn’t check on the Mall’s availability was that they had too much on their plate to make it a priority..?
edgyguy1426
@getreal: So is GETREAL your first or last name?
Cathy Brooks
Wow. Talk about an utterly false, wholly inaccurate post.
The only thing that has any slight ring of truth is the call to caution of the headline.
Historically the LGBT community *has* been ridiculously fractured. We’re very good at attacking each other (this post is a perfect example of that). I’m not suggesting that there shouldn’t be calling to task of leadership (while I don’t always agree with him, Michael Petrelis – who’s mentioned in this article – has been one of the watchdog voices working to hold leadership accountable). But, come on … how about getting your facts correct (for starters) and then how about trying to grow up and provide thoughtful, constructive commentary that can help us learn and work together.
I don’t disagree that the idea of a march on Washington in December needs more thought – the timing may not be optimal based on other things happening at that time, let alone the fact that it’s a holiday weekend so might garner less attention.
BUT the manner in which you have chosen to approach this is a clear representation of one reason the LGBT community has such a hard time garnering the support of the people whose support is more critical for our success than anything – that being everyone who’s NOT part of the community.
It is precisely this backbiting, childish, inaccurate stridency that repels.
yeson8won
Charlize Theron is an African-American
yeson8won
@atdleft: 2. Separate is never equal, and LGBT people are still facing real discrimination in CA
Sometimes separate IS equal.
Or do you think men and women should share locker rooms and bathroom facilities?
BTW everyone has an equal right to marry subject to identical qualifying conditions.
Nate_Adler
@yeson8won
You sure do bring up bathrooms a lot.
Seems to me showers and bathroom might give you more of a thrill than they do most others.
Are you Larry Craig?!
yeson8won
@Nate_Adler: Nice dodge nate
Nate_Adler
No dodge about it!
You seem to think military personel are somehow incapable of acting like adults in showers and bathrooms. I don’t know any gay folks who act all pervy in bath and locker rooms and it seems wierd that you are so very, very concerned about it.
HistryCheck
@tdx3fan: Amazing. In this month of Pride, traced back to the Stonewall Uprising, We have comments like these, throwing members of our community under the bus. If you had a more knowledge instead of self importance, you would know that when the time came, snobs like you would have slunk away in police custody. The drag queens were the ones who started the fight and fought hardest against the police at Stonewall, igniting this movement.
It isn’t my scene but I will always show respect for this strength they showed. Strength I could never imagine you having.
All that happened way before my time, but I took the trouble to look it up. Why don’t you.
Jordan
I got no LESS than TEN e-mails about this leadership conference from a number of different lists.
I’m SO tired of hearing all this “it’s a conspiracy! they’re keeping secrets!” bullshit. Guess what: if you don’t know about this stuff, YOU’RE NOT LOOKING. If you want to be “in the know,” then you SHOW UP and START DOING WORK. And to whomever said “they don’t make you a general on the first day,” you’re right — but only just barely. I showed up after Prop 8 passed, not having done anything before the election, and within just a few weeks of REAL, HARD WORK, and SHOWING UP to meetings, conferences, seminars, and social events, I was basically a few steps below a general.
Don’t expect people to go to YOU and hand you a hand-embossed invitation to the event. Instead, YOU should start showing up and participating, and then you’ll be invited to EVERYTHING. At last week’s rally in Los Angeles, there were no fewer than three dozen people handing out cards/stickers/fliers about upcoming grassroots group meetings. Did any of you bitching about this weekend actually TAKE any of them? Did any of you who went to MITM go to the tents and get information about those groups?
Here’s the real deal: the people who SHOW UP consistently, and actually volunteer to do work, instead of just breezing through a rally every six months, are the ones who get invited, and who MAKE THESE THINGS HAPPEN. It’s not some secret cabal of power gays doing all this. Robin McGehee was a nobody (relatively speaking, of course) before she decided to DO SOMETHING. And to get it done, she had to spend a hell of a lot of time actually planning, organizing, and SHOWING UP at other events and meetings to publicize her own event. YOU can do the same thing if you’re willing to, yes/gasp/crazy-I-know, GIVE UP YOUR WEEKENDS AND actually work at this!
yeson8won
@Nate_Adler: If straight guys made the same argument abou sharing accommodation with straight women, do you think anyone would buy it?
The same rules of decency and privacy need to apply it homosexuals openly join the military.
Homosexuals haven’t cornered the market in ‘rights’, their fellow servicemen and women have rights too.
alan brickman
obviously nope…
getreal
@Nate_Adler: Yeson8 has no agenda other than to disrupt and insult I would suggest ignoring him.
For the record as a straight ally who attended all these events people should know there was a large proud contingent of straight people male and female there and in the highest level of planning all the events of the weekend. We marched, we met and the middle, we were at the leadership conference that was open to all activists, and we knocked on doors canvassing in one of the most homophobic places in the nation. Yeson8 does not speak for straights or even homophobes I suspect he is neither. If someone wants to be included in the is movement get involved in grassroots actions in your community. If you live in Ca. contact Courage Campaign email them and tell them I want to be an activist I live in _______ they will tell you what you can do or if you have an action you want to accomplish they will give you the training to accomplish it. Before you are opening your mouth to complain ask yourself “what activism am I doing” if the answer is nothing ask yourself “What am I willing to do in my community” If you are not making change in your community or trying to your complaints about those of us actually doing the often tiring at times frustrating work don’t mean a darn thing.
yeson8won
@getreal: Yeson8 has no agenda other than to disrupt and insult I would suggest ignoring him.
Not true.
Your response seems very bigoted, why are you so afraid of altertnative points of view?
Are you heterophobic?
getreal
Anyone who read my posting would have seen I am straight equality activists which proves my point that there are certain posters on here simply looking to disrupt that have no intention of taking part in the dialogues(part of which is ACTUALLY reading posts)
yeson8won
@getreal: Apologists I was responding to Nate. This format can sometimes be a bit misleading.
getreal
@Jordan: Thank you for your post. I was contacted from 8 different organizations about this conference and although I did not RSVP to any of them walked right in. I really think a lot of the naysayers are people who did not care enough to give up their weekend and now feel a bit guilty about it and frankly put out that they missed it. The fact is that if it had been a priority they would have been at Meet In The Middle they have been advertising it for months it has been announced everywhere from CNN to PerezHilton.com. So If you want to get involved or have a leadership conference where you are organize one your self invite organizations, find a meeting space to donate a room, etc. I will come if it is in my state. Why not do instead of complain? That is what grassroots is.
Kathy Middlesex
I just want to say that this attitude that Queerty has taken towards LGBT(Q) rights groups lately is rather asshole-ish… Now, I’m politically Queer and have a lot of problems with lobby groups and other organizations, but what it comes down to (at least for the March), is that someone didn’t make the call. That is really stupid mistake, but having a group take the lead on organization something as large as that is probably the only way it would get down. It would be close to impossible for just one or two individuals to do that.
As a college activist, I’m constantly frustrated that these things are not “people-run” but “group-run,” but it does facilitate navigating through bureaucratic bs.
I think that a lot of stuff contributed to the passing of Prop 8, including bad moves on the part of Equality California and other groups, but to place all of the blame on the organizational method is to completely ignore all of the other factors. “It’s hard to fault activists whose end goal is admirable, but how many times can we forgive and rationalize a strategy that’s proven to be weak and inadequate?” I hope that the people who organized against Prop 8 did it to their best (sure they didn’t). It wasn’t necessarily the strategy that was wrong, but the mistakes of the people within it. Chill out.
christopher
@Chris: Closed doors do have a place, usually for the nuts and bolts of organizing like lets say CHECKING TO SEE IF THE VENUE IS AVAILABLE! Obviously these folks have no qualified event producers working with them. I say that as an individual who actually makes a living from working on events between reading Qweerty and looking at porn. Btw WoW is so last year.
banshiii
why march when law makers are not there?
Violayukoo
Oh. I’m not a gay, but a gay girl. Anyone want to have love with a hot lesbian?
Marta Evry
Good Lord,
I’ve never seen such shoddy “reporting” in my life. Let’s deconstruct this piece of crap, shall we?
Queerty:
“We shared with readers the words and frustration of activist Michael Petrelis, who called bullshit on the meeting for instituting a closed-door invite-only policy — the same anti-democratic organizing effort that sunk the No On Prop 8 effort……
“Organizers like parent-turned-activist Robin McGhee (pictured), who founded MITM, were going to share polling data with attendees, which was what the media was actually most hungry for (nevermind that the results may be inaccurate, given the recent California Supreme Court ruling on Prop 8).”
First and foremost: Sunday’s meeting was thrown open to any marriage equality activist or organizer who wanted to come. No one who showed up was turned away.
One small portion of the meeting – where internal polling data was discussed – was closed to press. This data will be shared over time with marriage equality organizers and activists all over the state in the coming months. And for those of you who assumes it’s being withheld from the general public because it’s “bad”, I can assure you it is not. It’s being withheld because the information is strategic and will inform and shape any campaign – whenever that may be – to come. How stupid would it be to give that to our opponents?
Queerty:
“The event was supposedly open to the press, except for all the alleged openness, the only videos we could find on YouTube from Fresno are clips of public spaces from Saturday’s rally and some from Sunday’s anti-equality reality by opponents; search for “Fresno Sunday” and there’s nothing. We also could not find any press photos from major news outlets from the Sunday event. If you can, please share the links.”
Bullshit. Go to UniteTheFight and this link.
http://unitethefight.blogspot.com/2009/06/leadership-summit-organizations-going.html
You will find a lot of the meeting (there was some technical difficulties, so the video isn’t great). In addition, the entire meeting, except for the polling data discussion, was videotaped by the event organizers.
As for there being no photos, I took thousands, both Saturday and Sunday. Go to this link to see nearly three hundred photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/couragecampaign/sets/72157619122277159/
Queerty:
“Meanwhile, we hear the Courage Campaign’s Rick Jacobs is calling around insisting he had nothing to do with Sunday’s closed-door meeting. And not to get too “conspiracy theory” on you, but one source with knowledge of the goings-on says Jacobs and the Courage Campaign organized an effort to flood Queerty’s original post with criticism of our report and leave positive notes for the organization, throwing the comment thread’s credibility into doubt.”
Really? It appears that “report” was as much of a hatchet job as this one. I doubt anyone needed to be “organized” to find it objectionable. Word gets around. Ever hear of Facebook?
As for the March On Washington, it was discussed briefly at Sunday’s meeting, but was by no means a focus of the organizers, who were overwhelmingly concerned with discussing strategy for achieving marriage equality for California
Marta Evry
Community Organizer
http://www.veniceforchange.com
Unite the Fight
“Queerty could not find a “full story” that followed on that blog.”
Here it is, posted Tuesday: Leadership Summit Organizations Going Back to Community to Assess Next Steps on Marriage Equality in CA.
It was also posted under comment No. 72 on your original story.
hephaestion
There are more effective ways of speaking out than marching on Washington. Every day we see groups marching for this or that here in Washington DC. We see so many marches that they mean nothing to us, and no one in our government even notices the marches. Even a million people march goes pretty much unnoticed here in DC, unless media cover it. And media never cover gay events here. Marches on DC are a huge waste of time.
It would be more effective to do like the rightwingers do and get our people to simply telephone our senators and congressmen (etc) and give them a piece of our mind by phone.