setting the tone

Joe Biden: Like Obama, America Is ‘Evolving’ On Gay Marriage. It’s ‘Inevitable’

Just like his boss, Vice President Joe Biden says his views on gay marriage are evolving. And, no gaffe: its legalization is inevitable.

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Speaking this morning on Good Morning America (scroll to about 5:45), Joey says “the country’s evolving, and there’s inevitably for a national consensus on gay marriage. That is my view.” And then, bizarrely, he veered into a separate issue: DADT. “But this is the president’s policy, but it is evolving, I think the country is evolving. I remember the first time he met with the joint chiefs, I was with him — he said, ‘Gentlemen, I want you to prepare now. I want to end end DADT. He prepared the ground so it is so widely accepted as it is today by the military. And I think the same thing is happening today across the country with regard to marriage.”

Now for everyone keeping score at home, in 1996 Biden, then a U.S. senator, voted for the Defense of Marriage Act. That effort reached a consensus too.

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  • ewe

    AKA… WAIT!!! I do not think just because it comes out of Bidens mouth it is any more credible.

  • Andrew


    [/Caps lock off]

    Guess what? If people didn’t evolve on this issue and come over to equality then America would still be 90% against LGBT rights! A lot of my family didn’t even know a gay person until I came out and being very religious were at first skeptical. Seeing that I was the same person I’d always been and was living my life to the fullest as best I could many of them have since come a long, long way on that issue. America, having to reconcile the image of the demon possessed sex-crazed homosexual with their family and friends WILL eventually change.

    Homophobia whether the bigoted kind or the silent kind is bad, yes, but screaming at people for not being all the way there yet is NOT the way to get them to come around.

  • robert in NYC

    Ewe, credible or not, you won’t hear it coming out of any republican mouths. The Log Cabiners can delude themselves all they want, their party will NEVER evolve on this issue. Their religious bigot constituents are far more important to them than LGBT equality, always have been, always will be. Thus far, they’ve not authored one piece of legislation favoring LGBT people and I don’t see that changing either. They’re all in lockstep in supporting DOMA and will not support ENDA either.

  • ewe

    @robert in NYC: true but i am not a democrat either so this tennis match means little to me.

  • ewe

    what you are saying is that you have no problem waiting with the crumbs that are given to you.

  • ewe

    @Andrew: what you are saying is that you have no problem waiting for the crumbs that are given to you. THAT COMMENT WAS FOR YOU. You speak ONLY for yourself not “people” who are “evolving.”

  • Daez

    @ewe: So, you vote third party then? If so, go ahead and do so its not like your vote actually matters. However, I’m guessing you don’t and in the end end up having to make a choice between Democrat and Republican regardless of what you are registered as.

    This country is evolving the more we come out to our friends and family and the more they see us for who we really are. My dad actually got on the bus instead of getting ran over by it. He gets along very well with my boyfriend and is being amazing on this issue. My dad has been a religious fundamentalist since before I was born, but underneath it all beats the heart of a father that just wants his child to be cared for and to be happy. Since my boyfriend cares for me very well and makes me very happy, my dad can not help but to come on board.

  • Daez

    @ewe: Stop acting like an impatient 9 year old. Unfortunately, in this big legal and political sphere things actually take time. The numbers are coming up on our side, and eventually we will have equality. That is GOOD news. It was much better news than we heard 30 years go. Yes, having to be patient does suck, but at least we are waiting for something we actually want to happen instead of the other way around.

  • kayla

    People on this site, simply do not understand politics. If they did they would appreciate how incredible the White House’s new talking points on this issue really are. Here you have a sitting president, who will be facing a bitter, unbelievably ugly reelection campaign in less than two years, saying, essentially, that gay marriage is not some out of this world fantasy, that in fact, he himself, is “evolving” on the issue, and might come around to the pro-marriage view point. He isn’t doing what Slick Willy did, and wait until there was ZERO political risk, before deciding that he was pro-marriage after being against it to the point of signing the unconstitutional DOMA into law. He’s doing it at GREAT political risk. Obama seems to be soo loathed by the gay community, for some inexplicable reason….I certainly can’t explain it.

  • ewe

    @Daez: First of all your approval is not something i consider. Secondly your dad loving YOU has nothing to do with gay rights. Thirdly you are the one who needs to grow up. Would you tell black people to wait to combat oppression the way you are demanding gay people do because you say so? What in the world makes you think that just because your life includes waiting that the rest of us need to think and act the same way? Again i say, your approval is not something i consider.

  • ewe

    @kayla: If you are going to give credit to the White house, you had better include the gay politik that put it the minds of everyone there. You may want to consider that all these people would agree that equality is or at least should be a non issue. However not when it comes to gay people. Maybe just 3/5ths there. Hey we’re evolving man. There’s your fucking answer to why gay people are so very “inexplicably loathesome” to those in power who claim to represent them. Clear enough???

  • ewe

    the rights of gay people should not be political if the rights of straight people are not. Get it? It’s not that difficult to grasp. Stop making excuses.

  • kayla

    @ewe: Don’t worry ewe, come November 2012, you’ll get your chance to show your disgust for this administration. Vote as you will…live with the consequences…

  • Jim Hlavac

    During Biden’s v-p debate with Palin he said clearly, forthrightly, strongly, even stridently, with hand chopping the air and furrowed brow as he strode out from behind his lectern, while looking directly into the camera — ‘No, gay marriage will not happen. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and Barack Obama and I feel strongly about this. No to gay marriage.’ (It’s not a word for word quote, but close enough.) Now, the exact quote is there on that video, and should be tracked down, but I remember the tone, the purposefulness with which he said it. He was four square against the very concept. Was he lying then? Lying now? Confused? Talking out of both sides of his mouth for political purposes? Forgetful of his own words barely 3 years ago? Or is this just a political ploy to get a few more votes and bucks leading up to 2012? Or is he really evolving so fast that it makes my head swim?

    Meanwhile, to that same question, Palin hemmed and hawed and didn’t clearly say yes or no, but did aver that marriage was traditionally heterosexual, and mentioned partnerships and such.

    So, He — forthright against.
    Her — just not sure, but already evolving perhaps, willing to think about it, but not too much.

    So Biden is for us, and Palin against us, right? Hmm.

  • kayla

    Ewe, in a perfect world, this political strategy would not be necessary. But this is the real world, and as such, there is a certain methodology that needs to be in play. I wish, that there was no Republican/Conservative opposition. Because if there wasn’t, things wouldn’t have to be done this way politically. Of course, Obama is already pro-gay marriage! But can he actually say that and not have it used against him politically? Absolutely not. You anger should be pointed towards the people who have made this sort of politicking necessary. And it’s definitely not the current occupant of the White House or his V.P….just saying…

  • kayla

    @Jim Hlavac: Are you really suggesting that Sarah Palin is pro-gay marriage? Someone please alert the press! Some people refused to be disabused of their delusions…but don’t worry Mama Grizzly will surely run, and then you’ll see her pontificating/kabuki theater act in front of her rabid base, hopefully then, you’ll come back to reality! I would laugh…if it wasn’t so sad. The woman was prayed over by an African witch doctor for God’s sake…

  • ewe

    @kayla: november 2012? yeah whatever.

  • ewe

    @kayla: That’s bullshit. I respectfully disagree.

  • ewe

    @kayla: Darlin, our rights are not the same as a tax cut!

  • ewe

    @kayla: Giving lip service to gay people is politics. Directing ones anger toward the mouth it is coming out of is not misplaced.

  • Kev C

    @kayla: Yeah sure. I remember the Beer Hall Putsch at the Huffington Post before the November elections. Thousands of Obama supporters telling gays how whiney and worthless they were for not supporting the President’s agenda. No one should feel an inkling of remorse for criticizing Obama or his fans.

  • justiceontherocks

    Kayla. How blessed we are to read the great writings of someone as smart as you, the only Queerty reader who understands the political process. We can all sleep better now.

    What a relief to know that holding your political “friends” feet to the fire isn’t necessary because you have it all figured out.

    Get your head out of your ass and quit drinking so much of the Obama KoolAid.

  • kayla

    @Jim Hlavac: The woman who couldn’t even bring herself to support the repeal of DADT is going to support marriage equality? …and I’m the Easter Bunny…

    Sarah has made it clear that she’s not for gay marriage, here is her quote, when asked if she supported equal BENEFITS for same sex couples (please come back to reality my friend): “Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And unfortunately that’s sometimes where those steps lead. I don’t support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about what that actually means. I’m being as straight up with Americans as I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of marriage.”

  • JCAl

    I don’t know how the rest of America feel on the name civil union vs marriage. Personally i don’t really care what its call, even when it comes to my own marrage All I know is that my son who is a veteran of two wars, a doctor, and a minister and his husband should have the same rights as my wife, his sister, and myself who are happily married. My son, his husband and my beautiful little granddaughter (my daughter who is my sons twin sister was more than happy to be their surrogate with my sons husband being the biological father) deserve all the protections that ALL straight married couples take for granted (and many throw it all away in an divorce) in the United States. If the religious right has a problem with the word marriage being used then do away with the word all together for EVERYONE and only allow civil unions, so all Americans are on the same footing and in the same class as far as rights go.

  • Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)


    Now yours was a stupid comment.

    Kayla, you’re not going to get intelligent conversations on this blog. Most of the people who understand politics tend to go more towards American blog and Towleroad-although he gets the knee jerks as well-so you won’t get much here.

    We used to have some bright conversations that weren’t hysterical and very opinionated based on very little or no evidence based facts.

    Look at Queerty as more something gossipy, not serious. For your own sanity.

  • Daez

    @ewe: To your first point, you are right my approval is not something you should have to consider, but beating your chest demanding that everyone agree with you on this Obama thing is getting a little old is it not?

    To your second point, REALLY? So you think that parents that were once fundamentalist Bible thumping Christians that chose their children over supporting anti-gay politicians has done NOTHING to help the cause? I actually give you more credit than to think you actually believe that.

    To your third point, when did I ever tell gay people to wait. I said, in reality, you will HAVE to wait because if this could have been a switch that Obama flipped to the opposite position it would have already happened. Politics take time, and unfortunately we do have to wait for the American people to come around on this issue. Continuously trying to force it down their throats when the majority of American people aren’t on board is going to do nothing but garner support for the opposite side. People REALLY do not enjoy being told what they should think about certain issues. Much like you don’t being told to yield to people that know politics 100% better than you do.

    Go ahead, beat your chest, be an outright bitch about this issue. Demand equality over and over. See where it gets you. It will get you about as far as it did on DADT. At the end of the day, DADT was repealed because Obama played the political game extremely well. It was Republicans that were not threatened for reelection at the time that helped push this through the Senate. It was patience that got DADT accomplished not chest beating.

    No, my approval is not something you consider but like a little lost puppy you consider the approval of everyone around you. What the hell do you think equality is? Its the desire to have the approval of everyone around you! Why the hell do you think the activists are pushing for MARRIAGE and not CIVIL UNIONS equal to marriage? Its because they also want the approval of everyone around them. You don’t get to have it both ways. You can’t demand the approval of every American and then say you don’t care about approval of others.

  • Daez

    @Jim Hlavac: You seriously think that Sarah Palin is in favor of gay marriage? Sarah Palin didn’t take a stand on any issue in the debates. The McCain camp was to busy prepping her by telling her she really couldn’t see Russia from her house and that she shouldn’t be afraid to open a magazine every year or so.

    Biden is a brilliant politician, and many of the states that Obama barely took victory in would have most likely went for McCain if Biden had come right and said that Obama plans on having a gay marriage in every church across the country before his second term in office.

    Never forget that the most powerful lobby in this country is a nation that isn’t even part of this country that feeds on the dollars that people donate every year to it and that nation wants nothing more than to see all gay people hung, and its members vote EXACTLY how it tells them to.

  • J Dav


    One doesn’t have to be a koolaid drinker to realize how incredibly dishonest some in the gay community is, particularly on blogs like queerty.

    It seems that many here live in a completely different reality or are so consumed with inexplicable hate for Obama that they are willing to resort to the most inane conclusions.

    I would never try to steal the rights of others to express their frustrations, but anyone who would spend so much time making Obama a villain of the gay community while not holding republicans accountable is being disingenuous.

    And anyone who would chastise Obama for his gay right record while at the same time trying to credit republicans are delusional. I have seen the most ridiculous statements here. Some have declared that Obama should get no credit for DADT because he did nothing. Anyone who thinks a policy like this gets repealed without the WH making it a priority is a political novice. Most moderate and conservative democrats would rather not taking a vote on DADT if they had the choice. Others have stated that the republicans are to be praised because the democrats couldn’t get it done without their votes… the insanity of that logic i will not touch… When your party almost unanimously votes for something and the other party almost unanimously opposes it, the credit goes to the former…

    Maybe some here are holding Obama to a higher standard… higher than the hold most (if not all) other politician in the country. Somehow I don’t think that it is… somehow I think this hatred is fueled by something else… maybe a lot of the critics are just gay republicans proud to vote against their own self interests.

  • Daez

    @J Dav: It has nothing to do with politics. The reason that most people here HATE Obama with such passion is two fold.

    One reason, a lot of people here were simply in love with Hillary Clinton, and they are overly upset that Obama stole her thunder. Of course, they fail to realize that Hillary is by far the most polarizing politician in history and that there is no way in hell she is capable of ever reaching across the aisle.

    The other reason is as old as this country, there are quite a few racists that post here. There are honestly people that believe that blacks are responsible for the lack of civil rights for the gays. These people can’t stand to see a black president do anything for gay rights because it invalidates their notion that 10% of the population has so much political power as to destroy gay rights.

  • ewe

    @Daez: you are a victim of your own times. full of propaganda and bullshit. cute little dressings to your own brand of judgement and hate. If i think you are an asshole, would it make you feel any better if i say i am evolving my opinions like so many other people. Tired. People would still be dying of AIDS in three days if they took your advice to heart. @J Dav: Obama is no more a villian than anyone else in this country. We do not wait around for people to evolve their ignorant opinions. We fight in the courts for equality so that we have something to fall back on when we encounter that bigotry.

  • robert in NYC

    No. 29, Daez, and what a lot of people don’t realize about Hillary is that she’s against marriage equality! I suspect once she finishes her job as foreign secretary, she’ll evolve like her husband has. Amazing how some of them suddenly evolve once they leave office. Dick Cheney did if you remember. Its good to see Biden acknowledge it while still in office, hopefully Obama, a first for any sitting president and vice president.

    As much as I’m disappointed in some of what Obama has done, given the choice in 2012 between Palin, DeMint, Boehner or Paul, I’d rather vote for a democrat any day whoever that is and I’m not even a democrat but a registered Green.

    That said, and to digress a bit, I think Obama has been set up by the republicans over this tax cut deal,hostage taking aside which is what it was anyway. If the economy and jobs don’t pick up in the next two years. Guess what? The GOP will blame it on Obama’s tax cuts, yes, they’ll make them his cuts not theirs where the blame will rightfully belong as it should. Few jobs were created under eight years of Bush and those that were went overseas. 42,000 factories closed in the past ten years, that’s why we have no manufacturing base to bring back those jobs while the republicans gladly support the corporatists who will continue to export jobs around the world in return for paying next to no taxes at the expense of the poor and the middle class of course.

  • Kev C

    Can we all agree that O-bots need to take a flying leap off a cliff and die a painful death?

  • Daez

    @ewe: Ewe, I’m so sad that I can’t be as enlightened as you. You are clearly ahead of your time, and all people should bow to you because you are the true gay rights crusader from behind your computer telling everyone how it should be done.

    Honey, I’m not the one that is against the president because he is black and not a woman. That would be you. Yet you talk about cute little dressings of “judgment and hate.”

    Its quite a stretch to say that people would still be dieing of AIDS in three days if they took my advice to heart is it not? Please, go ahead and explain to me how the private sector performing AIDS research which was mostly funded through private donations of gay men across the country during the time real advancement was made has ANYTHING at all to do with politics.

    “We don’t wait around for people to evolve their ignorant opinions, but we fight in the courts for equality?”

    Why is it that you think everything can be “won” through a “war.” You honestly believe that declaring war on the straight majority will get your rights even faster? You honestly believe that a USSC led by Chief Justice Roberts is going to advance your rights faster than the political process and reasoning with people. You really are insane if you believe that.

    Here is a little clue for you. Even if the USSC was to decide that gays had every right imaginable it does nothing to make you more accepted. What advocates really want, and why they push for the things they push for, is acceptance. Equality is just another fancy name for having people accept you for who you are.

    If this was really a question of rights, advocates would have been pushing for civil unions that mirror marriage a long time ago and most likely would have gotten it. This is about people accepting our relationships and respecting them. That is the only reason that we push for marriage. Separate and equal from a legal standpoint is completely justifiable. From a moral standpoint it is disgusting because we should be accepted by society not forced down their throats.

  • ewe

    @Daez: girlfriend, eat your own words as far as comment 26 goes. That’s right, i do not give brownie points even to your own ignorant parents who now show you love and acceptance. Gay people are the ones who tolerate the behavior your parents once exhibited and my own experience tells me that they probably would not be so loving toward gay people they don’t know meaning that i don’t judge them in any way for being heterosexual so give them my middled finger for invading my privacy should the topic come up next time ok? Telling someone they HAVE to wait is saying you have to wait. Splice and dice it all you want. You are saying what the democratic party has been saying to gay people for decades which is “you have nowhere else to go”. That is not true at all. If you want to be concerned with appeasing people who take your rights away while enjoying those same rights themselves, then keep it to yourself chump. Other people are reading your words. You have a nasty habit of trying to dismiss people for challenging you. Go elsewhere. PS. DADT has been repealed if you haven’t noticed so so much for “pounding on the chest”. And more importantly, it did not occur because people evolved to the point of choosing to be nice. It was in the works long before Obama was even known. As for the rest of your rant goes, i will only say you are distorting everything to convince yourself of your own superiority.

  • ewe

    @Daez: Dont’ waste your time being sad. Get educated.

  • Daez

    @robert in NYC: The people that worked for a living (or had families that worked for a living) and developed a pile of wealth (very few people in this country aren’t self made billionaires or can not trace their lineage back to hard working Americans who were) should not be punished by higher taxes.

    The economy is already picking up. This was a record Christmas shopping season. There is no real need for a manufacturing based economy. This economy is based on goods and services. Those willing to do what it takes to succeed (such as education and entrepreneurship) are still succeeding. “Rags to riches” is such a common place story now for anyone that works hard enough for it, that we stopped telling the story altogether.

    However, you would advocate higher taxes as a reward for those hard working poor and lower middle class individuals that made their way out their poor and lower middle class status so that you can allow people content to be poor and lower middle class to collect off the government dime.

  • J Dav


    I believe your comment highlights the point I am trying to make. Obama (as you pointed out) “is no more villain than anyone else in this country.”

    But you fail to admit that he is far more of an ally than many, if not most, people in this country. And to take it a step further, you also fail to admit that he is not merely a person: he is the president. And as such, his “ignorant opinions” carry huge POLITICAL implication. Just as it would for any politician in the country but for some reason his “ignorant opinions” are being held to a higher standard. Not only are his opinions being scrutinized without proper consideration of the political implications, they are being scrutinized without proper thought of the political environment: More states have amended their constitutions to prohibit same sex marriage that states that have legalized sex-sex marriage. By most polling data more people are against Same sex marriage than are for it. And this issue becomes much more of a wedge issue in swing states. Given all that, I find his “evolving” to be quite a statement…

    Secondly, though I am very supportive of the push for equality though the courts, there needs to be a strategy. The courts are also political, and as such a negative decision might actually do more harm to the movement than good.

  • ewe

    If everyone is gonna give a pass to our representatives for evolving toward the issue of equality then we had better be demaning “WHEN” each and every day. I equate this acquiescent attitude i am hearing with self hating fags. It’s annoying because you are influencing more than just yourself in a negative way.

  • Daez

    @Kev C: Sure, the moment we all agree that Sarah Palin and John McCain are gay rights heroes.

    @ewe: Get educated about what? You seem to be the uneducated one here. Please name one President that has done as much for gay rights as Obama. Hell, for that matter, please one politician that has done as much for gay rights as Obama. I’m sure if you asked Nancy Pelosi if Obama had a big role in repealing DADT she would tell you he did.

    You are just unable to fathom the fact that you aren’t a political expert although you have no political science education and you aren’t in a political office.

    As part of my “education” please enlighten me on exactly what you have done for gay rights and exactly what makes you qualified to dictate to the entire Democratic party about how they should put your rights in front of everything else in this country.

  • ewe

    It’s ok. I’ll wait. and wait and wait and wait and wait until you all like me.

  • ewe

    @Daez:RE: #39- but you just said you were so sad that you were not as enlightened as me in your previous comment Ms. Thing.

  • Daez

    @ewe: I am by no means a self hating (word I will not use by choice).

    You simply don’t understand that it took 17 years to get DADT repealed because timing is everything.

    Look, I don’t like sitting around and waiting for my rights. Perhaps I wouldn’t have had to if the very same people that advocated voting Republican to send a message to the President would have done the right thing and gotten off their asses to get out and actively participate for candidates that support our rights.

    However, they did not do that, and we have two years of an unfavorable climate to thank them for. I still see you fail to answer the question of why you don’t take one single ounce of this hatred you have for Obama and turn it to the Republican party that is responsible for the majority of our defeats.

    You don’t attack NOM, FRC, Jerry Falwel, Pat Robertson or any other group nearly as much as you attack Obama. You have even said you would vote for a Republican (because they do so much for our rights) before voting for Obama again (and even if you don’t vote Republican your failure to vote for Obama might as well be a vote for his opponent).

    So, in short, instead of holding the people that voted to keep DADT responsible, you attack Obama because he has done what to you exactly!?! Do you honestly believe that McCain/Palin would have signed DADT into law?

  • ewe

    @Daez: NO, its you who does not understand. You wanna bring up a host of issues not to mention racism when this post is about and alway has been regarding Biden which is the straight white man having to come in and stamp his approval to back up what the black man says because that is what it takes in our culture even today to appease racists. Meantime gay people are under the bus once again because “hey man we are evolving”. Well evolve fucking yesterday. You have become the problem Daez. In addition you don’t read my fucking posts if you don’t think i attack NOM etc.

  • Daez

    @ewe: Ewe, dude/dudet whatever you are. We (well I can only speak for myself) already do like you.

    Look, I want you to have all your rights. We are on the same side here.

    I would love to wake up tomorrow and get legally married to the man I love. The man that already jokingly refers to me as his wife. The man whose bed I sleep in. The man whose car I drive. The man that allows me to be his “house husband” and treats me better than I even feel I deserve to be treated.

    I absolutely believe that it is time for marriage equality. I absolutely believe this country has drug its feet on the morality of this issue WAY to long.

    However, Obama is only one man. He might have promised (in the words of Sarah Palin) to “draw back the waters and part the seas” after his election, but unfortunately, as President he doesn’t have that much power.

    The only thing Obama can actually do is sign or veto a repeal of DOMA if it comes to his desk.

    Sure, I will agree with the argument that Obama should have never allowed for the deplorable actions of the Justice Department to file such a sickening and disgusting brief in defense of the DOMA repeal court cases, but I honestly do believe that Obama feels as commander and chief he is duty bound to uphold ALL laws in this nation (even the ones he doesn’t agree with).

  • Daez

    @ewe: No, this has always been, much like every other post, about your hatred of Obama. You seem to willingly hate the man so much that its almost irrational. I just simply mentioned that the majority of people that hate him that much are racists assholes that don’t like him simply because he is black.

    I never said you don’t attack NOM. I said, you don’t seem to hate them as much as you do Obama. What you fail to realize is that the trend is that the country actually is evolving with the times. More and more gay people are coming out to their friends and family. Those coming out cause their friends and family to honestly think. Suddenly, the picture painted by the hate organizations blows up in the minds of bigots when their child, parent, friend, co-worker, boss or other important person in their life tells them that they are gay and that they aren’t that stereotype.

    Sure, it makes no sense that the religious right has the control it does in this country. We are arguably the wealthiest and most advanced nation on the planet; however, we allow Xtians to take over our moral fights. Its quite sickening really, but reversing that trend is not going to happen over night or in a time warp.

  • ewe

    @Daez: It is an accurate observation. You just love to twist and twirl don’t ya?

  • ewe

    @Daez: You are the racist. I don’t dislike Obama. I dislike his comment about evolving. It is unacceptable. There may be allowance for everyday american citizens to be given the luxury to evolve but not the president or any other public servant denying gay people equality. Of course you insert racism as your defense. I observe racism and comment.

  • ewe

    Notice this is more propaganda. Now that Obama is evolving, “America is evolving” so says Joe Biden. It’s acceptable hate against gay people to say we are not there yet which is itself UNACCEPTABLE. Done with this post Daez. I just can’t make myself any clearer without repeating what i already said.

  • whatever

    @Jim Hlavac: I knew you were a PUMA asshole, haha. Hillary will never ever be president.

  • Kev C

    @Daez: You know Luke, I’m you’re father. I strongly supported Obama for president because he’d end the Iraq war while Hillary/McCain would not, but threatened to expand it to Iran. Hillary’s positions on gay rights wasn’t much better than Obama’s, and no one should applaud mediocrity or compromise when it comes to equal rights for all. But that’s what Obama is known for, he’s a compromiser and his fanboys need to deal with it.

  • adman

    I don’t know how many times I will have to spell it out, and believe me, feeling the need to do so is one of my pet peeves, but PEOPLE DO NOT EVOLVE! No organism does. Organisms ADAPT or perish, species evolve. The grandiosity in speaking of a “personal evolution” pisses me off enough to be the scold here. Fuck, people, wake up to what you learned in the 6th grade already.

  • TomMc

    I too was shocked – Biden has balls?!

    Yet I thought that maybe though he was just saying it because he knows now (given the results of the midterm) that Mrs. Clinton will be the next VP candidate.

  • Joe

    I’m going to have to go with ewe on this one. I voted for Obama, and I too, have been disappointed because he seemed to cave on so many issues he seemed to campaign on. I think that Obama is the much better choice than a John McCain/Sarah Palin admin would have been, and that in itself brings me mental relief. HOWEVER, I am tired of people thinking laws should be based on “feelings”. In other words, gay people SHOULD NOT have to wait around for straight people to come to their bloody senses. We are guided by a constitution and a bill of rights, NOT by a feeling, evolved or otherwise.

  • Pretty cool guy who doesnt afraid of anything

    Lol, all he’s saying is “it’s inevitable, BUT, we won’t lift a finger or do anything to help usher it along”. Repealing DOMA would be of great help.

  • Daez

    @Joe: You are completely right. We SHOULD NOT have to wait around for it. It should have happened long ago. Its not even remotely fair that it hasn’t happened yet.

    However, the problem is that in this care of unfairness we can’t just pick up our toys and go home like spoiled little children. We actually have to pick up the fight, and bitching more at our allies (I didn’t see Palin/McCain supporting the DADT repeal) no matter how misguided than our enemies is simply shooting ourselves in the foot.

    Obama is not the best president we have ever had. I disagree with him on a lot of things, but what you still can’t deny is that he has done more for gay rights than any president before him. To continue to attack him because he doesn’t follow your time table is asinine. If you can do such a better job, then run for President, win and then take over and solve every problem over night.

    Oh, and if you really want to start bitching about people not doing their jobs. Where the fuck were Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for the last two years? They had the power to bring up DADT and any other law two years ago. Obama doesn’t have the power to introduce bills to Congress. However, you bitch at him for not introducing the bills (WHICH HE CAN’T BLOODY FREAKING DO TO BEGIN WITH) and give Reid and Pelosi a pass. Your reasoning is VERY flawed.

  • Daez

    @Pretty cool guy who doesnt afraid of anything: Actually, exactly what he is saying is “gay marriage will come SOON.” He just doesn’t want to define when “SOON” is and he isn’t willing to throw away his political career trying to find out when “SOON” is.

    The gays really shot themselves in the foot last election. They either voted for Republicans, third parties or refused to vote in general. The lack of the gay vote influenced many elections that were close to go to people that truly will do nothing to help the gay rights movement.

    Not only that, but you guys also managed to show that you aren’t a very supportive base, and because we are such a small part of the base to begin with and we decided to throw our support away, Obama and others would be insane to crusade for our rights because you don’t see the Christian right jumping ship do you?

  • Jeffree

    @Daez: (#56)
    The polls in the midterm election showed that the moderate democratic base didn’t turn out to vote like they did for 2008. The Republicans kept their base fired up and got their voters to the polls. The Dems didn’t. Although the LGB voters were a portion of those who sat out the election, the bigger picture was that the Democratic base as a whole wasn’t mobilized, particuarly the people who voted for Dems in the prior election who previously hadnt voted.

  • Tyler

    This is another job for GetEQUAL and their Queer radicals. I got another fundraising email that I forwarded to all my friends begging them to help.

    GetEQUAL got DADT repealed. Don’t miss this historic moment to get rid of DOMA and to pass ENDA. Please send some money to GetEQUAL. This group of radical queers knows how to WIN.

    P L E A S E

    Your equality demands that you contribute so our work can continue.

  • Brian Miller

    @Daez: So, you vote third party then? If so, go ahead and do so its not like your vote actually matters

    Um, yeah.

    I mean, every issue is diametrically opposed by the two major parties.

    For instance, within days of taking office, Obama ended the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, legalized same-sex marriage, and put an end to Gitmo and torturing POWs, right?

    Good grief. Simplistic thinking will be the end of us.

  • Daez

    @Jeffree: Yes, but who do you think has been the ones garnering the base for the Democratic party for as long as I can remember. The gays and lesbians in the party have a long history of getting more involved than simply a vote. When you lose their involvement you lose a lot of volunteers that are instrumental in garnering support.

    @Brian Miller: Your argument means nothing. Since you totally missed my point. There has never been a third party candidate that has won office and there never will be. When you vote for a third party candidate you are basically saying, “My vote doesn’t really matter anyways so I’ll cast it for someone that has no chance in hell of winning!” Meanwhile, the Republican wins by a small margin and we all bitch about how Obama is doing such a horrible job.

  • robert in NYC

    Daez, actually an independent from Vermont, Senator Bernie Sanders, won election on November 7, 2006. He caucuses with the democrats and describes himself as a democratic socialist although he has more in common with the Greens and supports same-sex marriage as a fundamental right. He’s been outspoken on this for a long time and one of the few to vote against the tax cut deal with the republicans.

  • Jaroslaw

    For what it is worth, when Hvlacs wrote #14 he was trying to say if you simply listened to only the words of each of the candidates at the debate, you would think completely differently. Biden said he & the prez candidate Obama were against SSM and Palin hedged.

    Obviously, there is much more to both of them – one has to consider their history and all other things they have said. He was simply pointing that out nothing more.

    Now, for the rest of you “equality yesterday take no prisoners” apparently living in the twilight zone – yes, we are guided by a Constitution, but did everyone forget at the time it was written those rights were for WHITE property owners only? If the framers had tried to apply rights to everyone, there never would be a USA. (NOTE our understanding EVOLVED) That is why we had the compromise with slavery. (we no longer have slavery, we EVOLVED) People like EWE don’t understand this. I get his impatience but the real world does not operate on absolutes. Not only that, look at what the rest of the world was like at the time of founding of USA. No one had rights. All the other people of the world were property of the king/queen. The USA, democracy was a novel concept.

  • Joan

    We should be protesting their weddings and crashing their receptions – that will EVOLVE the ass holes.

    We get nothing until we DEMAND it. We don’t have time to wait for these breeders to EVOLVE, we must PUSH them over the EDGE.

    Get angry. Get equal.

  • Jaroslaw

    Joan – there is a place for different strategies at different times. If I write too much, my comments “await modification” and don’t get published. My point is whether you like it or not, slavery existed and the slaves themselves did not end it. The fact there was a compromise at the founding of the USA meant the handwriting was already on the wall. Whether you like it or not, the Constitution, at the beginning, did NOT apply to YOU, a woman. So make fun all you want with your “EVOLVE” comments, I’m speaking of historical facts.

  • Daez

    @Joan: You are such a raging bull.

    Seriously, declaring war on the straight community will help our cause so quickly. It really will. Its not like they outnumber us 9 to 1. Its not like we can trace all the rights we have been given completely to their support. Its not like they got involved in the passing of DADT.

    Radical idiots, such as yourself, do nothing to help the cause. If anything, they give the Christian Right more evidence and propaganda to use against us. Just look at the love letter the radical morons gave the church with the FCKH8 videos that exploited children.

  • Jaroslaw

    #64 Daez, very good observation – raging idiot is more like it. I was immediately amazed at her response to my comments and didn’t even think about what you wrote. I agree completely with you also.

  • justiceontherocks

    @Joan – What do you care if a straight couple gets married? That’s not your concern. That couple is not stopping you from doing anything. Go to the wedding – get drunk at the reception – find something else to worry about.

  • Jeffree

    Note: “Joan” is a sockpuppet who also goes by the names of Tyler and Marlene etc.

    And I’m sure it’s just a coincidence, but they all use the same expressions and register & syntax as AndrewW.

    Don’t allow these trolls to derail the comversation

  • ewe

    @Joan: Your strategy is as good as any. Notice no one here says someone like Michaelangleo Signorile was wrong to storm St Patricks Cathedral with his anger over AIDS decades ago. But he himself probably would not do that same thing again today. That is why young gay activists passionate about issues effecting their own lives is so important. Ignore all these people who think sitting around pretending to blend in and act straight is the way to achieve equality. They are being naive. You are so right about demanding equality. No fucking one including Biden and Obama is dishing out talk on equality to be nice.

  • ewe

    @Jaroslaw: You are the one who doessn’t understand. All you just said with all your words is that others give you equality. And that is where we differ. Gay people should not have to fucking ask for the same rights straight people enjoy. All you say is “well we wait our turn. We all have to get in line and hope.” We just need to throw the hypocrisy in their face. You are completely fucking rediculous essentially telling people here to wait around for equality and enjoy the crumbs you get in the meantime. Asshole. You are an asshole. And by the way, black people were fighting in the courts since the 1600s. You speak as if straight people are entitled to be doling out fucking christmas gifts to minorties who obtain equality. Asshole. You are an asshole. Passive believer in fucking propaganda and in the freagin dark.

  • ewe

    @Jaroslaw: Just you be quiet and wait your turn. You will get there someday. yes yes yes you will. And even if you don’t there is a place called heaven which will reward you for all your trials and tribulations. Now pass me my golden goblet and be gone. But be sure to wax the floors and clean my bathroom toilet before you go cause someday maybe you will have a good life. In the meantime pray. just pray. ASSHOLE!!! PUKE. lol

  • robert in NYC

    No. 70, Ewe, I have to agree with you. We should NOT have to ask for any rights which straights already take for granted and are their birth right. The only two politicians who make it a policy in saying that we should and must must have our full equality are Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders, nobody else is saying it. Kucinich even included it in his campaign for the presidency, the only one with any guts to stick his neck out for us. Of course, he lost, no surprise there. We don’t have anyone of the caliber of Jose Zapatero of Spain and other European leaders who didn’t need much if any prodding to make full equality their goal. They just went ahead and did it, no excuses, no red herrings to avoid doing it either.

  • ewe

    @robert in NYC: thank you Robert. I always value and take your comments seriously. I know that i can be viewed as being very mean but this second class citizenship disguised as assimilation is so disturbing to me.

  • Jaroslaw

    Name call all you want EWE, demand all you want. It doesn’t intimidate me. If that is all there was to it, you personally would have obtained Gay rights for all of us all by yourself.

    I never said sit it in a corner and die, and do nothing. But how can you and Joan be oblivious to historical fact? If you tried what you are advocating now, when the Constitution was written or if you tried it in a lot of places in the world right NOW, you would be executed and no one would even hear you.

    When you become too shrill, no one hears you. Many GAY people don’t even want to hear you on this site.

    Oh, I know what you’re going to respond – you don’t care what I think and you are going to continue to advocate in your own way – and throw in a few “choke on your own tackiness” silly comments that only make you look retarded…. guess what? If NO ONE listens and NO ONE cares because you are so shrill you are

    ZERO PERCENT effective.

    When Michaelangelo went into the cathedral, he was speaking truth to power when no one was listening. He got their attention. That tactic and attitude cannot work daily, for long term. Continue on, though and annoy more than your engage in dialogue and see how far it gets you.

    I will repeat my first sentence. If demanding was all it took, you (and maybe Joan) would have been able to secure Gay rights already, but you haven’t.

  • Markie-Mark

    @ewe: I hear you, Ewe. And you make perfect sense to me. I appreciate your comments and Joan’s, too. Thank you.

  • Markie-Mark

    I think Obama and Biden are both lying. There are currently 7 lawsuits against their administration. If the Log Cabin DADT suit is dismissed (and probably will be) then there will be 6. Two of them are appeals that the Obama/Biden administration have lost. The defendants are represented by Massachusetts, LAMBDA, GLAAD, and ACLU. I support these organizations financially and hope they file even more law suits. Obama and Biden can “evolve” in court.

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