Jonathan Van Ness, the grooming guy from the Netflix makeover show Queer Eye, recently came out as nonbinary, clarifying that “he prefers he/him pronouns, but does not identify as a ‘man.'”
As a child, Van Ness used to put on his mother’s makeup, high heels and scarves while playing in his family’s basement, but he never felt he could wear such things to school where he was bullied for being different.
“I didn’t really put [my dressing] that together with ‘gender nonconforming’ or ‘nonbinary’ or owning that as an identity until recently,” Van Ness said. He continued:
“The older I get, the more I think that I’m nonbinary — I’m gender nonconforming. Like, some days I feel like a man, but then other days I feel like a woman. I don’t really — I think my energies are really all over the place. Any opportunity I have to break down stereotypes of the binary, I am down for it, I’m here for it. I think that a lot of times gender is used to separate and divide. It’s this social construct that I don’t really feel like I fit into the way I used to. I always used to think ‘Oh, I’m like a gay man,’ but I think any way I can let little boys and little girls know that they can express themselves and they can like be.
I just am either like gender-bendy or nonconform-y or nonbinary and somedays I feel like a boy and somedays I feel like a girl. I didn’t think I was allowed to be nonconforming or genderqueer or nonbinary — I was just always like ‘a gay man’ because that’s just the label I thought I had to be.”
He said the visibility of social media has showed people the options they have for expressing their own gender and added that most of his role models are women including his mother, grandmother and pop divas like Gloria Estefan, Celine Dion, Arethra Franklin, Shania Twain and Mariah Carey.
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What does it mean to be non-binary?
According to the National Center for Transgender Equality (NCTE), non-binary and genderqueer identity are labels that refer to people who “don’t identify with any gender” or whose “gender changes over time.” The word non-binary literally means someone whose gender falls outside of the male-or-female binary.
Related: Sam Smith comes out as genderqueer and non-binary
The NCTE points out that non-binary people have existed in societies throughout world history, not all non-binary people get gender-affirmation surgeries and non-binary isn’t the same thing as being trans or intersex (although some trans and intersex people do identify as non-binary or genderqueer).
The organization also says that allies should be respectful of non-binary and genderqueer people’s chosen names and pronouns, recognizing that they don’t need to “understand what it means for someone to be non-binary to respect them.” Most of all, allies should advocate for policies that allow non-binary people to live, dress and have their gender expression respected at work, at school and public spaces, especially bathrooms.
“There’s no one way to be non-binary,” the NCTE writes. “The best way to understand what it’s like to be non-binary is to talk with non-binary people and listen to their stories.”
TinoTurner
Shut up
RIGay
Was thinking the same thing.
Chrisk
I’m so tired of this shit I”ll just leave it as a thumbs up or +1. I’m so glad I never watched the second Queer eye and Miss Thang here.
LadyVader1138
Make us.
Sincerely, a trans woman fed up with this shit.
Loki
Yeah, Van Ness seems to traffic in gender stereotypes with all that talk about makeup, high heels , dresses, etc. I guess butch lesbians are performing their womanhood wrong or something….
ETK
We never will. I’m nonbinary and proud, and I’m proud of Jonathan, too. We won’t be quiet, so you’ll have to get used to hearing our voices.
metta
Does not surprise me. Be who you are is what matters. It sounds like he is still exploring. It is silly that some people get worked up over stuff like this. If it bothers you, mind your own business.
BrokebackBob
No kidding! Oh BTW Felicia, if you are gender non-conforming, shave off all your body and facial hair.
astro.dude
Man, I’m so sick of this crap. It’s time for masculine, cisgender gays to break away from the freak show that is lgtbq+ (did I miss a letter?).
Mikey E
At what point does extreme effeminacy rise to the level of mental illness? What causes it? Is it because the fetal brain was deprived of testosterone in utero? Is it due to some structural defect in the brain? The product of a personality disorder? What?
Cam
Hey Queerty,
When you have an account that not only has made anti-Trans statements, has defended anti-LGBTQ bigotry, and NOW is recylcling old bigoted attacks that LGBTq people’s “Brains aren’t right”…….at what point do you realize that this account is here for the sole purpose of attacking LGBTQ people and defending bigotry and hate speech?
LadyVader1138
Someone’s gender identity doesn’t affect you. Get over yourself.
Loki
@Vader
When a male rapist can “transition to female” in order to gain entry into women’s only places (women’s prisons, rape shelter, changing rooms), that does affect other people outside of the individual.
Cam
@Loki
Hi Queerty,
Now we have a second account basically comparing trans people to rapists. How is this different from the bigots comparing LGBT people to pedophiles etc….?
Mikey E
@ Cam – My comment was about extreme effeminacy, not about “LGBTQ people” or “LGBTQ brains.” The subject of extreme effeminacy has no bearing on Ls and the large majority of Gs and Bs are not extremely effeminate. It’s odd that you view these concepts as synonymous and interchangeable. Perhaps Queerty should consider your account to be homophobic.
Loki
@Cam
My comment was a reference to the very real case of Karen White just last year.
Cam
@Mikey E and @Loki
Two quick things…..
1. Both of you attacked LGBTs and now are scrambling.
2. The funniest, is that you both tried to deflect in follow up posts, using the same wording and posted 1 minute apart.
Wow, you anti-LGBTQ accounts aren’t even TRYING to hide the fact that you’re multiple accounts run by one person are you?
meirybomb
Why on earth would possessing feminine attributes be considered mentally ill? Ridiculous, rigid gender stereotypes are part of the reason people feel like if they don’t check all the boxes they must be nonconforming in the first place.
ShiningSex
Mikey E, you need to sit down and get some education. There’s NO mental illness with ANYONE of the LGBT community. That being said, ‘non binary’ is silly. You’re a very effeminate gay male. Nothing wrong with that.
Loki
1. I’m not the same person as Mikey E.
2. I am not attacking LGBT.
(Let’s see if this one gets through…)
dwes09
There are certainly LGBT people with mental illness. Though we are no more likely to suffer mental illness then straight people. But yes, non-binary seems very, very, very different from being trans to me.
I suspect a person who changes their presentation and pronouns frequently getting upset when people invariably forget their choice du jour), is simply being self absorbed.
As for Van Ness, sometimes wearing a dress, having painted nails, things that are superficial and suspect even when women do them does not make one “gender fluid”, it makes him a gay man into conventionally feminine self-adornment. Essentially a transvestite, if it gives them an erotic charge. “Feminine dress and adornment” are undeniably cultural constructs having nothing to do with innate perception of gender except to the extent that society foists those things on women. Femme or Butch are costumes, not self-perceptions of gender, or intrinsically appropriate to male or female people (whether cis or trans).
The Trans women I know may vary in orientation (some are hetero, some lesbian, one bi), but their gender expression seems pretty consistent …varying only as much as most people’s do. I only know one Trans man, and he is a very gentlemanly, old world style heterosexual.
dwes09
“Loki
@Cam
My comment was a reference to the very real case of Karen White just last year.”
This is very obviously a rare case of a person with neuroses, a violent personality or mental illness who happens to be Trans. It is equally obvious that it has nothing to so with the alt-right/fundamentalist assertion that men will “‘transition to female’ in order to gain entry into women’s only places (women’s prisons, rape shelter, changing rooms). That has never happened, and likely never will.
And for the record, cic-women sexually assault other women in prison just as cis men do to other men. This has more to do with the nature of criminal personalities and power hierarchies in prison than it has to do with perceived gender or sexual orientation.
DarkZephyr
The “extremely effeminate” types are the ones who did most of the hard work to make it so YOU can be out of the closet because they didn’t HAVE that luxury of passing as straight. You are a disrespectful, ungrateful and cruel hearted person. Things have really gone to hell if one member of the LGBT community would attack another member for being “extremely effeminate”. Are you KIDDING me? You like D, Dude. You are the the LAST person who should be attacking another person for not behaving according to gender norms. In case you forgot, many straight people don’t think a real man should crave D no matter HOW butch he can act. Go back in the closet please, because you gaybros who like to stomp around huffing and puffing like you’re straight while you launch your vicious attacks on those who were here LONG before you, are making the LGBT community suck. The effeminate types are 10 times braver and tougher than you could ever dream of being. Our entire community was better and richer without you. Go away. You’re not wanted. Just GO AWAY, preferably forever. You ruin this community.
Loki
@dwes9
From the testimonials of ROGD desisters/detransitioners I’ve seen, more than half identified as non-binary before trans.
(Let’s see if this one makes it through…)
astro.dude
LOL. I’ve been asking myself the same thing. I think this article answers that.
Terrycloth
Oh please he is beyond gay.hes enchanted. Sorry he is the type of gay that straights think of when they hear gay.prissy effeminate WAY over the top queen..he gives most gays a bad name. Is say he is screaming obnoxious queen.
Mojohood
I agree 100 percent. With all of these freaks coming out, I am ready to go back into the closet. I hate being grouped with such idiots.
MooshaMarie
I absolutely ADORE Jonathon. He is such a delightful and refreshing human being, so full of positivity, energy, humor, wit, and light. He shines like a diamond. I love everything about him! He is a beautiful human being!! Queer Eye is one of My fave shows and I appreciate and adore all the team on that show. What a great group of decent, compassionate, assertive, powerful human beings. They truly make a difference in peoples lives just when they need them most. They bring their own brand of culture and wisdom to each show. Jonathon ……….. I’d adopt you if I could!!!! Shine on Jonathon!! And shine on Queer Eye and the Queer Eye Team!!!
Chrisk
Ha. Thanks for the PR statement Marie. Next time you might want to tone it down a bit. Good to know the Queer eye staff is watching though.
ETK
@Chrisk
Hey, why are you being a jerk? People are allowed to like people and things and to gush about them.
Loki
@ETK
And people are allowed to DISLIKE things and express as much, too.
Chrisk
ETK
I’m just calling bullshit when I see it. I count 3 names created just today to defend Miss non-binary thang.
Of course it’s all coming from the same person..
Mikey E
lol!
Loki
Jamie Shupe, the first American to have his gender recognized as “non-binary”… detransitioned (back) to a man/male earlier this year.
LadyVader1138
Citing detransitioning of one doesn’t mean that the rest are wrong.
Loki
@Vader
He is not an isolated case. There are many such cases of detransition to be found, especially among sufferers of ROGD.
Maritza Cummings is another example.
salmonpants
I’d ask for a source to your “detransitioned non-binary” person but I’m sure it’s just some irreputable, “gender critical” hate rag. Regardless, trans and non-binary folks are not defined by their transition. If someone tries out a label and finds it doesn’t fit, more power to them, they’re probably better off in the long run for actually taking a good look at what gender means to themselves.
ETK
And binary trans people sometimes detransition. And some gay people realize they are bi, some bi people realize they are asexual, some asexual people realize they are gay. Who cares? It’s for each person to figure themselves out. Labels change. That isn’t a problem, and it doesn’t mean that everyone else with that label is wrong.
Loki
@ETK
And gay people can become straight, right?
Loki
You can google Shupe. He has a blog.
Cam
Many evangelical Pastors have been exposed as rapists. So by your logic no Evangelical church should be allowed to exist right?
dwes09
I have had great difficulty posting links here before, but there is an excellent article concerning ROGD on the site Medium.
titled:
Everything You Need to Know About Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
by Julia Serano
It is a survey of past articles and research on the phenomena, and she postulates that it does not exist, and that the term was developed simply to give parents a pseudo-scientific reason to keep their children from accessing trans positive information of people.
She bases this on which researchers have written on it, which publications have printed it, and how research was conducted. It appears the largest study only involved questioning parents and not the children involved.
Worth reading or skimming.
dwes09
“Loki
@ETK
And gay people can become straight, right?”
I know two lesbians who fell in love with men, got married, had families and never looked back.
I do not doubt the same thing can/has happened with men.
That does not mean “reparative therapy” works. It simply means people differ and people change.
percivalz
the funniest thing about all of your anti lgbt/transphobic replies is that loki, your username’s name sake, is canonically genderfluid & nonbinary. absolutely amazing
Loki
@percival
Loki is a fictional/mythological character, a shape-shifter who frequently transformed into animals. You don’t believe humans can be trans-species, do you?
HenryCameron
You do know that trans-species is already a thing, right?
LadyVader1138
I’m always very happy when someone can come out and be themselves, especially those who are non-binary.
Jared MacBride
“Non-binary” – a person’s way of blaming everyone else for their own confusion
ETK
No, just a way of explaining ourselves. We aren’t the ones who are confused, it’s everyone else who gets confused by us.
Jared MacBride
No explanation is needed ETK, just a little understanding. For as long as there have been people there’ve been people whose feelings and behavior are not what they believe is common for their biological gender. Non-binary is just a meaningless term to describe a perfectly normal situation.
Cam
You have to love the right wing accounts.
Somebody else is doing something that doesn’t effect me so I”m going to scream and call them names over it.
QuartzToad
Anyone who follows Jonathan is not surprised! I love him and that he’s putting himself out there like this. This is the kind of celebrity I want to see.
ETK
I’m so proud to find another nonbinary sibling! I’m so proud of you, Jonathan, for taking this brave step.
Donston
Ultimately, I’m just tired of he identity obsession. I have dimensions in my orientation and sense of gender and I’m okay with being honest about both. I just don’t feel every little dimension and quirk in someone’s sense of self needs a title and a coming out moment. And I’m just exhausted with the “queer community’s label pushing and hyper focus. But I will never shame anyone for being honest about themselves or their struggles.
CommentByMale
That’s cool. Makes sense. Not being sarcastic. It just does. Sometimes you meet people who dont conform to gender, or who are transgender and I can’t see them any other way. So they got an ally here. Be you, be healthy!
In unity,
M
wiredpup
Who?
Thad
Jonathan Van Ness is appearing in Atlantic City Saturday, June 15.. I’m going to go. I don’t know a whole lot about him, honestly…so I’ll decide for myself.
I’ve walked out of shows in Atlantic City before (Chris Young, for example) but I expect Jonathan to keep my interest.
bobnla
Why are we falling for this bullshit from the Far Left. Gender is not a social construct. If you were born with a ‘package’ between your legs, you are a male
ShiningSex
Well there’s far worse crap from the right. I do agree that now everyone wants to create their own “label”. I still refer to the LGBT as such and not a letter more. Q=queer is an attitude and statement, but not your identity. It’s more of a way to not have to say “Hey, I’m gay”. I have more respect for ones that take a stand and say “I’m gay, I’m bi, I’m transgender”, but f*ck the rest of the wanna be labels. Also, the black stripe on the flag now is so ridiculous. There’s no reason for it. The flag alone represents ALL colors in the community and one specific one doesn’t NEED a stripe. It just adds fuel to the unnecessary fire.
Cam
Wwwaaaahhhh!!!!! Something that doesn’t effect my life at all is enraging me!! Waaaahhhh!! I’ll cry about “The Far Left” and then hope nobody knows I”m just another FOX News watching anti-LGBT account on here.
wiredpup
@ShiningSex I concur. The people who don’t want to be labeled make new labels minute by minute and demand the have the correct labels they choose be used but if you demand not to be labeled the way they want you’re the bigot.
It’s really sad and pathetic to see such a great community destroyed.
Oh and Cam, grow up. What are you 12?
Loki
Thing is people are confusing biological sex with gender. No one can even agree on a definition of what gender is. If you possess a Y chromosome, you are a MALE. That is your SEX. It’s simple.
dwes09
Empirical research and history demonstrate otherwise, but the idea of a complex or nuanced world is way too confusing for the right to understand.
Loki
@dwes9
Where is this research that says that the presence of the Y chromosome doesn’t confer MALE sex? Don’t cite disorders of sex development like CAIS, which results in intersex persons (who are biologically male).
ledalasvegas
Did you know that pink was considered to be a “masculine” color until the mid-twentieth century? And yet, I suspect you would consider it a “girly” color…
Gender norms are social constructs, like it or not. Just because our language and culture is a little late to the party (many cultures make use of a “third gender” in their social constructs), does not make it unnatural or against any natural laws… political orientation to the contrary.
azjeff17
He is unbearable to watch, so inauthentic and forced “so gay”. His clothing choices scream, “I’m such a fake”.
wiredpup
Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Riley did it better.
dwes09
Style and fashion are by their very nature superficial and ephemeral. Do not expect depth or substance from those who deal in them.
The very same clothing choices they may excoriate someone for now, they will purr over 5 years from now than they are magically new and stylish.
pscheck2
First it was: Str8,gay,lesb., and , of course:Bi! After we overcame those ‘labels’ we, ahem ,transitioned into transgender, Asexual and non-binary! O.K.,if you feel you are one of these ‘labels’ it’s your choice to make, but the problem comes when you want others (Str8,gay etc.) to accept you when you yourself is not too sure who you are, at a given moment! How can you enter into a relationship with a well defined person, who knows who they are, but can’t be sure who you are?
dwes09
Transgender people have always been here. There are examples of people living as the opposite sex all their adult lives through history, though most probably kept it to themselves and lived as their birth gender.
PugsBuddy
Jesus, the Christ, who cares?
You get a moderately successful show on [snort] Netflix and suddenly it’s all “Look.At.Me!” We looked. I prefer the whorey one with the built-in bat-mask. I think his name’s Tony or something.
Donston
I’m not particularly a fan of Jonathan. That brand of campy, goofy, vapid “queerness” can be fun if executed with cleverness and charm. But I don’t feel he has either. Social media will just hype up any un-problematic queen. Nonetheless, whatever someone wants to call themselves, whatever some feels they are is really no one else’s business and not something to judge. Everyone has their own individual sense of self and their own journey and chooses to embrace or not embrace whatever “labels”.
Furthermore, just because someone considers themselves non-binary/queer-gendered/genderfluid/having some dimensions in their sense of gender doesn’t mean they no longer see themselves as “gay”. Otherwise, probably around 40% of gay identifying people would have to drop the identity. Just like there are gay identifying people that aren’t particularly homosexual. Or bi identifying people that are either inherently heterosexual or homosexual. And trans people that consider themselves “non-binary”. And so forth and so on. People are complicated and often contradictory. There are so many different identities (many of them are redundant) for so many different attributes. None of them are able to fit most people like a glove. And folks choose to embrace or not embrace identities depending on ego, sociology, politics, economics, etc. This is why I am pretty close to hopping on the “I don’t believe in labels” train. But as long as someone isn’t driven by hate, self-resentments, shame, manipulation it really is time to just stop caring about other people’s sense of self and stop giving these words so much value.
GentlemanCaller
Anything for attention. He’ll come out as something else as soon as this attention fades, which will be soon.
Itsonlythetruth
And this is news because??????? This is the new identity du jour.
Donston
I do think people who are talking about just how “brave” this is needs to chill out a bit. He’s not revealing anything about himself that isn’t difficult to suss out. I understand that exposes your nuances always places someone in a vulnerable state. But he isn’t coming out as trans. Nor is Jonathan someone who most people assumed to be “straight” but is now claiming to be seriously interested in dudes. The stakes and emotional weight here are very low. And there are plenty of people (especially a ton of gay/queer identifying cis males and women) who talk about having dimensions in their sense of gender. While there’s plenty of effeminate guys who refer to themselves as a “girl” or a “bitch”. Most just don’t feel the need to latch onto a label. None of this stuff is ever revolutionary. They’re just putting names to them or updating the names for the sake of politics and sociology. Hell, the majority of “straights” already assume that perhaps most gay-identifying men are like this. But it is nice that people feel as if they can express themselves and reveal more about themselves.
OzJosh
He’s a total airhead. And he has no idea what he’s talking about.
truthseeker
If one can just arbitrarily claim to be of a different gender based on how they feel that day, can one also claim to be a different race? If not, why? Biologically one is born either male or female (not counting some strange genetic anomaly of which this man is not). To deny that, is denying science.
Then to the people shouting, “stop complaining because this doesn’t effect you”, it actually has major effects on a lot of people.
For instance, if we allow people to claim any gender they want, what happens if a man claims to be a woman and applies at an all girls’ college. If denied, can he sue for discrimination? What if a man identifies as a woman on Monday and accesses social programs only available to women but then goes back to male on Friday?
To act like this is no big deal is ignoring the issue here. If we do away with the basic definitions of society and biology, then we no longer live in a structured or civilized society.
ledalasvegas
Except, that’s not how it works. You might want to consider how many hurdles anybody who claims a different gender have to overcome before they can be considered such, before making such a sweeping statement.
If it was as uncomplicated as randomly claiming a preferred gender on a given day, we wouldn’t have any issues with gay rights or marriage because it would be a piece of cake to simply claim you’re a different gender and circumvent social mores that way. However, trans people more or less go through hell to be able to claim their gender, and unless one belongs to that group, I don’t think one should be able to judge them. Also, if a man goes through all of that bs just to say he is female… Then he is female. And as a female, frankly, I don’t know why any dude would want to set themselves up as a woman unless they felt, deeply, that they fell under that demographic.
Nobody in their right mind would set themselves up for so much discrimination otherwise. It’s bad enough being female, but a trans female? Nobody would do something like that casually.
truthseeker
@ledalasvegas
You just proved my point. I’m saying if we just allow people to choose whatever they feel like then it erodes the structure of society.
You’re arguing that there are too many hurdles to change one’s gender and that there shouldn’t be any hurdles which would lead to everything I mentioned
inbama
So what used to be flaming queens are now non-binaries?
Donston
There’s been quite a few non “queens” and guys who do not have an overall romantic/sexual/affection/relationship orientation towards males who have said that they don’t have a sense of gender or that they have dimensions in their sense of gender. However, non-binary/genderfluid is an identity that seems to be exclusively embraced by the effeminate or by the “extreme queers” aka guys who a ton of tons and piercing all over their bodies and stuff like that.
I do think one thing we need to be comfortable with is that, yes, there are plenty of naturally masculine homosexual/homo-leaning/homoromantic/gay dudes. However, things like sense of gender and being feminine or masculine can often play a role in where people’s overall preferences and fulfillment lies. The unfortunate backlash to this is that we’ll have even more toxic masculinity and more “queer” males trying to show and prove just how manly and tough they are.
jcoberkrom
Por Jonathan. I guess he wasn’t getting enough attention !
darkanser
I was actually surprised to see recently in an online application the gender choices, M,F and Non-Binary!! It was the last one that grabbed my attention. At least, I knew what it meant. I’m sure many others would be scratching their heads — or better still googling it.
Esscourt
He’s an annoying, non-binary pain in the doop!