VIEWPOINTS — “Gays don’t have a genetic difference that changes their outward appearance. Hypothetically speaking, if a gay employee is scared that his new boss will not promote him because he is gay, all he has to do is not tell his new boss. But if a black employee is scared that his new boss will not promote him because of his race, all he can do is work hard to prove to his boss that he is worth promoting or prepare a lawsuit, if he feels he has been discriminated against. To reiterate, I am not saying whether this is right or wrong. I am not saying that gay people should have to hide their sexual orientation or that the majority of society should change its belief and be more welcoming to gays. All I am arguing is that the option is there. If a situation presented itself where being gay would be detrimental to one’s future (like in the employee scenario) or to one’s immediate safety (like being the possible victim of a hate crime), gay people have the option to not tell others of their sexual orientation and avoid the situation.” —University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign student Paul Cruse III on why gay is not the new black [Daily Illini]
Just Don’t Tell Anyone You’re Gay and You Won’t Be Discriminated Against
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Jack
Should black people avoid discrimination by ‘doing a Michael Jackson’? All I am arguing is that the option is there…
Tallskin
Oh for fuck’s sake!
Another fucking straight on here (jack), giving us all the benefit of his/her opinions!
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
Yo!
We can’t post links can we??
BUT this would bring up a good debate….I was watching all that stuff about white gay men adopting black kids and all the brouhara surrouding it..
And you know what??
The black kids ALWAYS said that the only thing they got picked on was being ‘black’…or when asked what was the difference between ‘black’ child and ‘white’ ‘gay’ parent, they’d say they were black and he’s white…
Food for thought and ethnographic!
MR
@Tallskin: Huh? Seemed to me Jack was trying to add a counterpoint to the quoted student’s point. What about that “outs” him as straight?
Michael
Did we not just have a hate crime wherein two brothers were attacked because it was “thought” that they were gay partners? Did one not die? Was there not also a case when a straight couple was attacked, because the female was dressed rather masculinely, and her androgeny fooled their attackers into believing that they were a gay couple? When did attackers first ask, “excuse me, um, gosh…we were thinking of beating you into a bloody pulp, but before we do so, would you be so kind to identify yourself as gay or straight?”
And, does anyone know how hard, how tiring, how unhealthy it is to hide one’s identity to the outside world? Let’s say that many people in the work place wear their careers 65% of the time, does that not mean that there is only 35% left over with which to conduct a personal life? I know this, because I dated a minister once (I know, I know, and I swore it would never happen too, but hey, he was dreamy), and he was a minister 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There was something less than 10% available for a relationship. When it was eventually found out that he was gay, he was immediately terminiated, but today has a full and happy life, is married to a wonderful guy, and no longer needs to hide.
I think Paul Cruse III has years to go before he successfully graduates, but then, that’s what you get when you get quoted as a Freshman.
kevin (not that one)
“Gay is the new black” is a metaphor.
But since some people’s tiny little lizard brains can only comprehend literal ideas I’m not sure if we could simply say “Pink is the new Black” and be through with this silly discussion.
Getting into “who is more oppressed” circle jerks is counterproductive and serves only to divide. But LGBTs today are certainly at the center of the American civil rights debate, just like the African American community was in the 1960s/70s. That’s indisputable.
No one is saying life is a bowl of cherries for other minorities in this country. Indeed, if all minorities in this country could unite as a single entity, we would be the majority. Actually, I think it was a united minority effort that pushed Barack Obama into office.
strumpetwindsock
First off, I’d cut that fellow a bit of slack because he’s a student.
Secondly, his piece reads a bit better if you see the headline and read it from the beginning, though it is still full of errors and naive assumptions (giving people rights, for example).
Reading the Queerty excerpt, I thought he was arguing that if we just went back into the closet everything would be alright. I got madder and madder until I reached your tagline.
The essence of his argument is correct – many of us are not as visible as other minorities (that’s what “don’t assume I’m straight” T-shirts are for). And at the end he says clearly that he feels people should not hide their orientation.
I think his piece has flaws, but he is a young writer, and I give him credit for being brave enough to tackle a volatile subject like this. Especially on-campus, where young people are going to read it, I think bringing an issue like this into the public forum is only a good thing, even if I disagree with some of his points.
Jack
@Tallskin: Straight?! How dare you?! I’ll sue for defamation!
Jack
@MR: Quite – many thanks! At least someone is thinking with their brain today! 🙂
countervail
Well there’s one side that states that sexuality in any form is inappropriate in the office, that essentially any personal information shared that makes people feel uncomfortable is inappropriate and cause for intervention by Human Resources. However that doesn’t mean we turn off our self-being when we clock in each day.
What of the case where an employer learns of an employee’s sexuality despite non-disclosure. That’s the situation to consider. Someone tells them an employee is gay. What’s to protect someone from that especially if the information is simply made up.
Also, what if an employee tend to be more flamboyant (male) or butch (female) again without any specific disclosure of sexual orientation? Measures to protect against discrimination also apply in situations of perception of sexual orientation, not just actual disclosure.
The quote above is a simplistic answer to a complex issue.
Tallskin
Ok Jack, grovelling apologies! LOL
Tallskin
WOW,, are we all gay on this particular discussion thread?????
Amazing!!
getreal
Well I’m straight and black and I think the suggestion that gay people are able to “pass” is immaterial. Why should anyone have to hide their identity to receive equal rights and protection under the law? The idea feeds into the kind of discriminatory thinking we are fighting against. It’s insulting.
Lin
@ GETREAL-
Exactly. Thanks for wording it well.
Chitown Kev
You mean to tell me that a small portion of the taxes that come out of my check helps this fool write this shit?
Brianna
I think people who use this sort of argument need to read up on queer history.
Excuse me if I got this wrong, but in the days when gay bars used to be raided – wouldn’t newspapers publish a list of names of the queers found in the bar(and arrested)? And that’s how a lot of gays would get fired from their jobs? It’s not as easy as just not talking about it during the workday. Sure, there are no more bar raids and lists of names – but what if an employer comes across a job applicant’s myspace/facebook page where they disclose that they’re gay? Or maybe they google the person’s name and find they’ve written an article on a gay blog with their name attached to it. And so on, and so forth. That’s not even taking into account how fucked up it is to imply that we should just suck it up and pretend we’re straight.
This opinion piece was just bullshit.
kevin (not that one)
Just to expand on the subject (although not really commenting on the original author’s premise):
If you are gay, even if you’re in the closet, you will be found out at work eventually. Most modern workplaces are rife with gossip about co-workers. Is she single? Who is he dating? And if you don’t just come out and lie, you’ll be figured out pretty quickly. So “hiding” your orientation at work probably only lasts about a week until the receptionist has told everyone in the office about those calls you get from “John”.
Teh Gays are on everyone’s minds these days, and the workplace is often a place where you are assumed gay until proven heterosexual.
Norman
He needs to read “Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man” by James Weldon Johnson to understand how “passing” is as unacceptable an option for gays as it is for light-skinned blacks and biracial folks than can pass for white: You can’t do it without letting letting a piece of your very self die.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
His argument doesn’t hold water in the face of effeminate gay men. My boyfriend feels like not one week goes by without some anti-gay asshole feeling the need to use an anti-gay slur in his diretion, just because he’s femme. Just as black people can’t hide their black; many gay men can’t hide their gay. Now, I don’t travel in corporate circles, but in all my years, I’ve never met an obviously femme man in a position of power. That can only make me think that femme gay men are not getting the same opportunities as straight men
Kevin (not that one)
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: I actually do travel in corporate circles and I’ve known out, somewhat effeminate gay men in positions of power – but generally not as CEOs. Usually I’ve found them to rise to the top of COO, Office Manager or Marketing but very rarely President. This is in a gay-friendly urban area, so even in this situation I believe there is a glass ceiling for gay men.
The corporate environment is still a straight man’s world, even though some women have broken through. Some people like to say “business is business, it’s nothing personal”. That simply is false. Everything about business is personal. Everyone who courts you or who you want to court is privy to your personal life – since after all so much of business is about selling yourself, even when you’re in a position of power.
And business doesn’t stop at the office door – so much of business takes place outside of work. If you’re proudly gay, you have no choice to be out – unless of course you have a beard and you’re closeted.
Lin
It would be interesting to hear opinions of the lesbian or bi (or even transgendered) side of this issue, as well as the non-corporate/office employment world.
For example, I’m certainly not “butch” by any stretch of the imagination, and I work as an elementary school teacher. The children… they just know. Luckily, they rarely judge, more ask questions (which I generally pretend not to hear, or change the subject, what have you), but at some point I’m sure an administrator has heard a rumor or some talk. It comes out, no matter what.
(I don’t really have an argument here, just throwing out a different view for internet consumption.)
epluribusunum
I went to U of I (the school from which this commentary came) and just graduated last May. All I have to say is the drafter of this commentary most certainly does not represent what the student body at U of I thinks.
I am familiar with this individual, and he is one of the most bigoted and homophobic student politician wannabes on campus. Or at least he was when he was a student; truth be told, I think he was older than me and graduated a year ahead.
Anyways, it’s a shame that an article written by him would be published here; the kid doesn’t need any more of an ego than he already has.
With that said, aside from my utter dislike of this individual’s viewpoints and him just in general, it is always productive to have a good debate. If Mr. Cruse’s words sparked this sort of deliberation, I guess that is positive.
Brianna
@Lin:
Do have any idea how they know you’re gay? It must be like when parents “just know” their kid is gay.
I just caught that documentary “It’s STILL Elementary” on Logo earlier today, and then went and saw the original doc. over at youtube. Have you seen it?
Adam
Paul’s basic premise is entirely specious to begin with. Many straight people are very nosy about other people’s personal lives; it’s a luxury of theirs. The only way to not reveal one’s sexuality to such people is to lie, or refuse to answer their questions.
strumpetwindsock
@epluribusunum:
Thanks for the backstory.
As I said, despite the mistakes and ignorance I was willing to cut this fellow some slack because he is a student. I took particular notice of the declaration at the end of the piece that he didn’t expect people to hide their orientation. Plus, despite the fact that he danced around the issue, it seemed he wanted to focus on the narrow point that in some cases sexual orientation is a bit less visible than race.
Technically he has a point, though it is obvious he’s naive and not familiar with the logistics of being in the closet.
I wrote stupider pieces when I was in school, and I’ve read stupider pieces in real newspapers, so I felt charitable.
From what you say though, obviously I was wrong.
Phoenix (The Museum of Bad Art is the Foyer of the Men's room)
Is Paul Cruse III black himself? Because if so, perhaps someone should remind him that only a short time ago the only way a black man (or woman) would have gotten into college was if he/she was “high yellow” and could “pass” too….and perhaps if Paul Cruse III can’t “pass” perhaps he should drop out…so as not to get discriminated against.
rogue dandelion
Intellectualizing hate is one thing, but this is something else. There has to be some sort of intellect involved, and this article is severely lacking. I suggest this school newspaper up their standards.
To put it plainly, replace “gay” with “jew” and you have an anti-semitic article that would never get printed. All the same logic applies.
Andy
Ha! Next thing you know someone is going to tell me that am I also supposed to marry and start churning out babies in order to keep up the illusion of heterosexuality.
Lin
@Brianna-
No idea, yes I think it’s an inborn “radar”, or “gaydar” to use a word I love to hate. Of course most of the kids are clueless, but a few (especially one that I mentor daily) have asked many questions. Who knows- kids are very smart!
I haven’t seen it. I’m one of those jerky “I don’t have cable” people. I will try to check it out via the internet, thanks for the rec.
Dan
i get outraged at that sort of mentality the stupidity of people these days never ceases to amaze me. And coming from a univercity too thats just horrific, to publish something like that is shamefull.
That being said i wouldn’t call being gay the new black either personally i think they are completly differnt issues. But claiming that the option to hide ones sexuality is availible it completly bull****.
A better comparison would be comparing it to left handedness, at one stage not very long ago in human history, left handed people where considered evil and persecuted and sure they might try to hide it, but it makes life very very difficult and people will find out eventually.
Or perhapse the witch burnings, innocent women that where often helpfull to the community, falsely accused of something and then put to death for no reason in particular.
hell even women, once thought of as lower-class people who belonged only in the home and as ‘entertainment’ for chovenistic men, ignored or put down if they tried to live their lives and be freely independant.
apparently some people don’t learn the lessons of the past.
anyone who compares blacks and gays are rasists and homophobic, just because both still get discriminated against doesn’t mean that they are in any way similar.
ajax
And if the man you’ve shared 25 years of your life with passes away, you can always lie to your boss and tell him your “wife” died so you can have time to mourn. Of course if anyone from your office shows up to the funeral, your lie will be exposed. Then you’ll be a homosexual and a liar.
RS
@Brianna: EXACTLY! If the military’s Dont’t Ask, Don’t Tell has taught us anything, it’s that not telling and being able to pass isn’t enough. People find out. Someone gets photographed or filmed for the news at a pride parade, or spotted walking down the street with their boyfriend, or seen exiting a gay bar, and suddenly their private life is the equivalent of posting an “Out and Proud” banner on their cubical.
But @Getreal nailed it. Why should anyone have to hide their identity to receive equal rights?
Brianna
@Lin: I thought it was really interesting. It was this controversial documentary in the 90’s that was all about anti-gay prejudice in schools. The film-makers found these elementary/middle school teachers that included gay issues into their discussion and documented the dialogue between them and the students. Mostly it was the kids doing the talking.
“It’s STILL Elementary” was released a couple years ago and it has interviews from some of the kids(all growned up!) and teachers that were featured in the film. It also went over the whole backlash from the conservatives and the difficulties they had trying to get it broadcasted.
I found the original film on youtube. Search “its elementary part 1”
“It’s STILL Elementary” is on the Logo website in full along with a lot of other interesting documentaries:
http://www.logoonline.com/documentaries/
Just thought I’d share! So off topic.
@RS:
That might the one good thing about DADT, this makes for a good argument:
person1: All gay people have to do is keep their mouth shut and they don’t have to worry about losing their jobs.
person2: Tell that to the 12,500 gay people in the military who kept their mouth shut and were found out and discharged anyway.
Though, I’m sure several of those people actually came out and were like yeah, I’m done lying.
SHark
Remember what Mystique said in X-Men 2 hen Nightcrawler asked her why she didn’t just hide in “normal skin” all the time? Her answer is very appropriate – – and one that Mr. Cruse III should take to heart.
Ryan
I’m bi and I almost always pass myself off as straight. It just seems easier especially since I don’t have a boyfriend right now. People assume I’m straight. Seems easier to just not rock the boat.