“As someone who lives everyday benefitting from white male privilege I see it as my responsibility to be an ally to oppressed groups. It is so important to center the impacted, listen and learn from those who are oppressed, yield the floor by not speaking over someone and letting them share their own experience. Racism and sexism continue to be toxic forces this country. I refuse to sit around while white people are silent on the unequal advantage they have over people of color.
It’s important to remember that #BlackLivesMatter isn’t about discrediting other lives. It is about giving the same level of respect to black people that white people get automatically. It’s important because they need our help. They understand that all lives matter, but all lives aren’t in danger right now. Black lives are disproportionately being targeted and killed and it’s going to take all of us to stop it.”Kyle Krieger speaking to Gay Times about using his privilege to help others.
Related: Max Emerson And Kyle Krieger Wrestle Over Shared Instagram Account, Bianca Del Rio And Willam Judge
dwes09
Very well stated, especially in regards to what BLM actually means (in contrast to what the right too often imagines it to mean).
Donston
I get what he’s trying to do, but isn’t he about two years late on pushing BLM? Even most black people have moved on from that. The statement may be well-intentioned but it reads as rather cliche and hollow and, as I just mentioned, rather late to the party. It’s very unlikely to move anyone. It’s like he just wants to porve that he’s “down with the cause”. And as black person I’m a lil’ tired of white people trying to be self-deprecating and self-aware by condemning their “privilege”. We can have a discussion about race and race relations without such nonsense. It just comes off as condescending. I’ve also noticed over the years that when it comes to gay/queer white men who constantly talk about and attach themselves to non-gay issues it’s often driven by narcissism or their desire to cover up internalized homophobia and/or self-misandry. And I’m not here for that. Kyle just seems like another shallow, self-absorbed white guy who tries to say all the right things to be loved by everyone.
I’m all about discussing race. But this is a rather lame and tame and admonishing “statement”. Perhaps he could have gotten someone else to write a more thoughtful piece if he actually truly gives a fvck.
barkomatic
This is the best comment on a story about this subject that I’ve read so far and I have nothing to add except my endorsement.
Creamsicle
I agree that the discussion of privilege is not anywhere nearly as helpful to POC as actual policy that seeks to end discriminatory practices. The more we talk about privilege, the more people seem to just take it as a given that ethnic preferences exist rather than asking people to confront their unconscious biases and put a stop to the actual behavior that perpetuates racism. Just talking about privilege is nothing but empty rhetoric.
Bromancer7
As much as I think Kyle is totes adorb, I think you pretty much nailed it on the head. He’s not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I had to stop following his YouTube channel because I couldn’t take the vacuousness any more.
Donston
And BTW, I absolutely believe in racial and gender suppression and inequality. I have definitely experienced the former, just recently in fact, despite having a solid middle class life now. But just like with touchy topics within the “queer community”, I’m tired of people telling everyone exactly how to think. I’m tired of people believing that pushing guilt is the way to open discussion or equate to change. And I’m especially tired of easy, flat cliches and saying that don’t mean anything or give any real insight (that “statement” is entirely made up of those things) as well as acidic phrases that just lead to more tension. Most people of every side of every issue have a lot of problems with actually having real, in-depth, bs-free conversation and instead become obsessed scolding or obsessed with simply proving that they’re down with whatever social/political identity or movement.
This “statement” reflects all of those problems. Never mind that it’s coming from a pretty boy airhead who seems to be driven by things other than altrurism.
BivisibleGuy
@Donston, while I always value your input and opinions on most articles, I am left wondering here what could/should be done. You have articulated about the poor responses but have yet to point out a remedy. I am honestly hoping to be better, but I haven’t found the right definition of “better.”
MonkeyMan
This “white privilege” is some major racist b.s. that needs to stop: What kind of privilege does a poor white man living in a trailer park have compared to a rich affluent black boy living in the suburbs?
It has to do with money and not skin color: kids who come from middle-class families and beyond are privileged because their families are able to provide for them, and often also make sure they get some level of education.
The straight, white man with no money and no education is just as lost and hated in this World as anyone else in his situation.
Everything comes down to money in America, it’s like that now and has always been that way. Don’t make it about race, it’s not.
Vince
This isn’t about facts. This is about how we feel. Yeah I might be poor and white but I’m privileged because queerty and this YouTube celebrity hair dresser tells me so. Lol
Seriously, I have black friends ranging from lawyers to a professor. Should I be jealous of their black privilege? Families that could send them to the best schools. Nope because they worked hard for it.
mhoffman953
I’m with MonkeyMan and Vince on this one.
Can someone explain to me what white privilege is using facts? And how can I benefit from this so-called privilege?
Last time I checked, I pay the same price at grocery stores as everyone else. I wasn’t aware that I could give the “white privilege” wink to get discounts if such a thing exists
Dapper Dan
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html
PinkoOfTheGange
Dan’s link goes to an article about the findings from The Equality of Opportunity Project (dot org). It you all have used your free NYT articles.
Basically their latest study showes that all other things being equal, i.e. upper middle class upbringing, young men of color earn less than their white peers, and this is with big numbers.
Cylest Brooks
A poor white man living in a trailer park absolutely still benefits from racial privilege.
An affluent black boy living in the suburbs absolutely does not benefit from racial privilege.
Here’s a good read:
https://medschool.duke.edu/sites/medschool.duke.edu/files/field/attachments/explaining_white_privilege_to_a_broke_white_person.pdf
mhoffman953
It’s hard to have a thorough and in-depth discussion on these topics when comments get removed even though they didn’t break any comment policies, provided factual information with real statistics (not based on opinion papers or flawed studies), and simply presented a different point of view
The whole idea of “white privilege” or even “white male privilege” is merely to demean white men. What motivations would it give a black man if you constantly tell him that he’ll never succeed because white people are working in the shadows to ensure he’ll never be successful?
Screaming “white privilege” is a mechanism to divide people further and to make black people angry at whites. Once people actually pick apart the concept of “white privilege” or “male privilege”, the whole argument loses any merit
Cylest Brooks
“Screaming ‘white privilege’ is a mechanism to divide people further and to make black people angry at whites.”
I’m sorry… what?
Don’t you think it’s more likely that the term ‘white privilege’ came FROM black people, who have already BEEN angry for centuries because of the relentless systemic oppression of their people? We don’t need to create a term to divide people… we’ve been divided for as long as we’ve existed together. We don’t need to create a term to make black people angry… black people have been rightfully angry for hundreds of years.
We don’t talk about white privilege to “motivate” black men… you’re right, that makes zero friggin sense. We talk about white privilege so that WHITE people will start to realize what’s never been taught to them before… not to make them shameful or guilt-ridden, but to help them make BETTER choices going forward.
The idea that white privilege exists to bring down white people is just about the most white privileged thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Wild.
Vince
@Cylest Brooks. Yeah, the author of the link you provided comes from an Ivy league student so of naturally their talk about white privilege. She brings up a list of reasons for white privilege as if that settles it. More whites on TV, Cops less likely to pull you over, and schools teaching white history over black. All BS.
mhoffman953
@CylestBrooks
“Don’t you think it’s more likely that the term ‘white privilege’ came FROM black people”
You are wrong, ma’am.
The term ‘white privilege’ originated from white people, not black people. The term was first coined by American writer and communist Theodore W. Allen (a white man), it was then brought up more heavily by Peggy McIntosh (a white woman) who was a feminist writer in the 80s, and then gained more traction by Robert Jensen (a white man) in the 90s which brought us to where we are now
Cylest Brooks
Ok, that’s a cool history lesson but it doesn’t change anything about my comment. Just because a white person put the words “white” and “privilege” next to each other to create a label doesn’t mean that BLACK folk haven’t been angry and complaining about that exact concept for centuries.
You’re trying to claim that the phrase is some kind of rhetoric aimed at making black people hate white people. That is just patently false.
mhoffman953
@CelesteBrooks
That’s a very dismissive response from you with a hint of sarcasm by saying its a “cool history lesson” which “doesn’t change anything” about your comment. I can sense the eye roll through the screen
Your previous comment was fake news which served to rewrite history. You claimed the term “white privilege” came from black people. You were so adamant about this that you made sure to type “FROM” in all caps as if you are shouting.
Facts matter and history matters. When I presented you with facts that you are wrong about the term “white privilege” coming from black people when it in fact came from white people, you claim that doesn’t change anything about your inaccurate comment.
Also, why haven’t you responded to my questions further down the page? I’m curious to hear your views on those questions. Please try to respond factually.
Smith David
It’s crazy. As an African-American, I get more racism from Spanish men than I do white men. I just get exhausted sometimes with the race issues here in America. It’s hard enough living as gay man. I’m just exhausted. I just want a strapping man to carry me away from all this craziness. I just want someone to love me for me. That’s all.
DHT
I wasn’t sure if I should write this to you but I think you should know but here goes. I am sure you get more overt racism from Hispanics but believe me that gay white men are just as if not more racist. When I was coming out I was asked if I would date a black man. I knew a lot of black guys from being in the army so I replied innocently enough that “yes I would”. In the next few months I could never live it down. I was immediately labelled a “size queen” by these guys (who incidentally were my coworkers in a gay bar), and was harassed constantly in every way you could imagine until the bar closed. Just to let you know how exhausting the other side of the equation gets…actually the bar closed because it burned down (I wasn’t even in the city that night and could prove it), but they told the police that I set the fire. Turned out to be a kitchen fire in a neighboring restaurant.
DHT
damn…I wish I could edit what I just wrote…commas are important!
WindsorOntario
My experience within the gay community and with the gay men I’ve met is, while there is racism and it does need to be acknowledged – our problem is really that of classism, elitism and definitely ageism. It’s still baffling to me that after all we’ve been through as gay people and having to come out and somehow figure out how to be okay with ourselves and earn a living somehow, our biggest barrier is not straight society but each other! Look at the requirements and expectations we have of each other! Nobody can possibly be perfect at everything all the time while looking perfect and being under a certain age. After a while I think most gay men who don’t buy into this get sick of being treated this way by our supposed ‘community’ that they just give up and have nothing to do with other gay men anymore.
Smith David
chhhiiiilllle…….cheese. I feel the same.
Stefano
Exactly !
Vince
The funny thing is that ageism will trump any racism eventually. Black, white, yellow, brown. After 50 were all equal. Equally rejected by the gay community and kicked to the curb. Lol
DHT
So true…everyone wants to be the “best” gay and most try to do so mostly by denigrating others. Maybe Melania’s “be best” message actually can help, you are not the best unless you are treating others kindly. It’s a shame that for most of us our introduction to the gay community comes through the gay bars…they are really horrible places for the most part.
Vince
He’s a YouTube and Instagram celebrity.
queertyrone
@MonkeyMan
in the USA *everything* is about race. yes, poverty affects people of all backgrounds; but the bigger picture here will always be about the impact and divide that slavery continues to have on us all. Today. affluent Blacks, poverty stricken Whites, and a range of any number of examples in between; of course there are exceptions. however, if you genuinely believe that a poor White person and a poor Black person are on equal footing in this country, then I’ll respect that your life experience has brought you to that conclusion. keeping in mind, though, our current political climate (“why can’t our immigrants all come from Norway?”), the systemic racism that has impacted our police departments nationwide (_the Washington Post reports 34 percent of the unarmed people killed in 2016 were Black males, which is quite disproportionate since Black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population_), and the reluctance of people on both sides of the issue to accept our history, and to dialogue about it honestly and productively, I would ask that you make a serious effort to look deeper into why BLM is indeed important; and try to understand that Krieger’s point about the basic need for levels of respect being equal is not only valid, but essential.
Coruna2018
Windsorontario and Monkey Man (and everyone else who feels as they do):
If you’re poor and white living in a trailer park, what kind of privilege do you have? Even in that situation, most trailer parks in the U. S. are inhabited by whites and Latinos, not blacks and Asians because the cost of trailers, even renting one, is beyond the means of most African-Americans. Most Asian-Americans, prefer, culturally, for their homes to be houses and/or apartments. Both groups represent a sizeable minority, not majority, of Americans, therefore the trailer park inhabitant will most likely be white. That is an example of privilege that, if you’re poor, you’re still better off, even marginally, economically, than a non-white.
As for knowing doctors and lawyers who are black, hurray for you. There are black lawyers and doctors but not as large a ratio of such African-American professionals relative to their population, owing to institutional racism and higher rates of poverty than is true for whites. Many whites don’t want to hear that nor acknowledge that because, as bad as their economic situations might be, they know that most non-whites in the U. S. live worse than they do and they know that the chief causes of that inequity is institutional racism that says white skin, no matter how poor, looks better to powers-that-be than anything darker than an oak tree. Racism, especially institutional racism, works for the groups it was designed to benefit, no matter how marginally. I agree with Donston, too, that, ageism and sexism play roles in the gay “community”. He says they’re greater problems than racism. I say they all, including racism, play equal shares in gay men, particularly white, wealthier gay men discriminating against other gay men due to color as well as age and body shape.
There is no real gay community, simply groups of people that reflect mainstream society, only that their sexual orientation is not heterosexual. All of us are individuals who identify and belong to societal groups created and maintained by the societies in which we all live.
Amalgamate
come on-don’t be so dense-if youre white and poor, you have much better chances at being hired, at getting an education, etc by simply trying. Basically, if youre an adult who is white and poor, you done phucked up!
unreligious
The average salary of an black person was $39,490 in 2016. The average salary of someone living in a trailer was $28,400. So how do you figure that a trailer is beyond the means of most African-Americans? The rest of your post is full of similar misinformation and stereotypes.
mhoffman953
@Coruna2018
There are tons of erroneous, misleading, and false statements in what you said.
As ‘unreligious’ pointed out, your statement of blacks not being able to afford trailers is false. If we’re to assume living in a trailer is the lowest one can live without being homeless and you claim that black people can’t even afford that, then where do they live? They more than likely live in apartments which is better than living in a trailer, so I’m not seeing “white privilege” there
“As for knowing doctors and lawyers who are black, hurray for you”
But isn’t your entire assumption that “white privilege” is creating this force field preventing blacks from obtaining high paying jobs? If that were true, then how did those black doctors and lawyers slip by?
“There are black lawyers and doctors but not as large a ratio of such African-American professionals relative to their population”
Who says that every profession must have equal and proportionate ratios to the population? That’s ludicrous thinking LOL. That would mean that every job whether it be janitor, teacher, cop, nurse, doctor, engineer, construction worker, zookeeper, basketball player, actor, musician, historian, librarian, roofers, etc. must all have 6% black men, 7% black women, 0.3% transgender people, 37% white women, 35% white men, etc. What happens if a construction company can’t fulfill their racial quotas because woman aren’t applying to do construction? Is that proof of gender bias? Obviously not
“I say they all, including racism, play equal shares in gay men, particularly white, wealthier gay men discriminating against other gay men due to color as well as age and body shape”
So mostly wealthy, white, gay men “discriminate” because they are selective of which body type or which age they date??? I haven’t seen many young black men dating 60 year-old, overweight Asian guys who are 5’4″, so I don’t think it’s mostly “white, wealthier gay” men that have a type. Everybody has a type as to what turns them on and nothing is wrong with that.
Vince
@mhoffman953. “I haven’t seen many young black men dating 60 year-old, overweight”
On Rentmen yes. In real life. Naw. Can’t say as I have. Lol
lcandela123
As others here, I’ve been a bit confused about the supposed “ageism” problem in the gay community. Thanks to Hoffman953 for the clarity in explaining why this is baloney.
I am 60 years old, married, and sexually attracted to well-built middle-age guys. I certainly like friendly skinny young guys, but they don’t make my penis hard, so I don’t date them. Am I therefore prejudiced against skinny young guys? No!
Now, if an older guy is only sexually attracted to young guys, he may find that a lot of such guys aren’t interested. Its really nothing personal; you just aren’t making their penises hard. So don’t try to turn it into some evil thing by calling it ageism.
Amalgamate
wow-youre really dumb
Amalgamate
Vince, in other words, he’s nobody
Dapper Dan
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html
mhoffman953
@queertyrone
I don’t understand why people like yourself always bring up slavery as if the go-to explanation for things. Every race has experienced slavery. Whites, Asians, Latinos, and Blacks were all enslaved for hundreds of years throughout history and slaves still exist today. Jewish people even suffered through the Holocaust but I don’t see that holding them back. Past enslavement has no correlation to future poverty.
“the systemic racism that has impacted our police departments nationwide (_the Washington Post reports 34 percent of the unarmed people killed in 2016 were Black males, which is quite disproportionate since Black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population_)”
How are the police “systemically racist”? White people are more likely to be shot by police. If you feel any different, then you don’t know how to properly analyze data. People infer that blacks are killed more often by police because you are using TOTAL AMERICAN POPULATIONS as your sample size. That is illogical because it goes by the premise that police are as likely to kill the lady they buy lunch from as they are the suspect they are dealing with in a police call.
You need to use the sample size of actual police interactions to find the likelihood of someone being shot by police and break it down by race. Using 2015 FBI crime data (the newest data available), 494 whites were shot to death by police that year. In the same year 2,146 whites committed violent crime. So 494 / 2146 = 23% of the time, cops shoot a white person to death when dealing with a white person. Using the same data for black Americans, we get 258 / 2934 = 9% of the time, cops shoot a black person to death when dealing with a black person. I’m still not seeing the pattern of “systemic racism”
If we remove police, and just look at white-on-black murder, white-on-white murder, black-on-white murder, and black-on-black murder, there still isn’t a pattern of “systemic racism” among whites.
Using FBI crime data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2015.xls we see that white-on-black murder accounts for 229 / 6137 = 4% of all murders, white-on-white murder accounts for 2574 / 6137 = 42%, black-on-white murders account for 500 / 6137 = 8%, and black-on-black murder accounts for 2380 / 6137 = 39%.
I’m still not seeing this pattern of “systemic racism” which you allege is happening within the police or even within murder patterns. Maybe you can better explain though since I’m willing to listen if you present facts.
mhoffman953
@queertyrone
Ok, I read the articles and I don’t see facts anywhere in the 2nd article. The author of the article seems upset that she can’t find a color foundation to match her skin tone.
She then goes into the “wage gap” which is a myth. The “wage gap” is created by adding up all of the wages of each race or gender and dividing it by that number of people. But if we ignore that, her claim falls apart once you realize Asians and Jewish people make more than any other group.
I never hear anyone arguing about “Asian privilege” or “Jewish privilege”. There are more Jewish people who own all of the media companies and financial institutions than any other subset of people. There are more black athletes in America than any other American sport, all of which make millions. I never hear about those people being privileged. Also, there are scholarships and grants specifically for black people and specifically for women which excludes white men in college as well as affirmative action programs within college acceptance. The author of that article hasn’t provided any evidence showing that white males get opportunities not afforded to everyone else.
All people have problems in life but the basis of this argument seems to be a victim mentality. It seems that those crying about “white privilege” don’t want equality of opportunity but instead are seeking equality of outcome, which is impossible.
richard2179
We have to recognize that we all exist as both oppressed and oppressor. This means given the circumstances, we can have privileges and be discriminated against for other reasons. Yes, white gay men do have both white and male privilege which is readily seen within the LGBTQ community. As a black, gay man, I have male privilege. I can travel at night without certain vulnerabilities that some women experience. And I am oppressed, too. We need to remember the complexity of how we really exist!
Cylest Brooks
I appreciate this comment greatly.
OrchidIslander
Well stated Richard. I appreciate your take on complexity. At some point and time we are all privileged and oppressed. Which one we are at the moment is relative to other groups. Good point.
DHT
Although he is trying to raise consciousness, it seems to me on reading his statement he is confusing white privilege and bigotry. White privilege in an of itself isn’t bigotry. We are conferred a way of life simply because we are white, many white people live oblivious to this fact. They never have to wonder if, “I didn’t get that job because I am white”, and they never deal with any of the other indignities that people of different races encounter daily and a lot of white people never interact with people of color. Consequently the idea of privilege has never even entered their consciousness and they are bewildered by BLM and other consciousness-raising efforts. Meanwhile he refers to deliberate overt actions white people take against black people and others, (speaking over…disrespect), this is not white privilege, this is bigotry. I do understand this attack on bigotry and racism in the gay community though. As we are all jockeying for positioning in the bottom of the American barrel, trying to validate our self worth, white people routinely step on those of color.
Jerry
Only if you don’t know what humble bragging means.
KaiserVonScheiss
Probably not a good idea to call everyone in an entire race “privileged.” That’s kinda called racism.
Not a good idea do that to an entire sex, either. That’s called sexism.
Democrats might start winning elections if they* didn’t call working class people – especially those who lost their jobs, living paycheck to paycheck, or who have no health insurance – privileged.
*The typical person views the world in simplified dichotomies, so anything left-wing is identified with Democrats, right-winged is Republican, etc.
Cylest Brooks
You’re confused about the definitions of both ‘privilege’ and ‘racism’.
Nobody wins when we allow systemic oppression to continue and thrive on the fallacy that broke white people aren’t capable of acknowledging their privilege because their lives are hard.
It’s actually not hard at all to learn and accept that I experience privilege every day, regardless of the fact that my life is hard. It takes only basic critical thinking skills. I believe Americans can handle it… and the faux outrage is just because they’re used to being able to deny it and avoid the hard work and change that comes with it.
mhoffman953
@CylestBrooks
So with that logic, an 70 year-old white woman who is living on a pension and social security and struggle to make ends meet or care for herself is “privileged” over a 20 year-old black man in college that was granted one of the many scholarships only afforded to black men and women in college. Let’s go even lower on the income scale. With your logic, we would be led to believe that a white homeless veteran who served in battle but now lives under a bridge is “privileged” compared to the black college student I previously referenced. Right?
What is your fixation with focusing on forcing broke and downtrodden white people to apologize for being white? How is it anyone’s fault as to how they are born? If all white people stopped today and said, “Ok we’re ‘privileged'”, do you believe that “systemic oppression” would end? If not, what is to gain by guilting and shaming white people to admit to some arbitrary concept which you claim they are all guilty of having? You have been shouting about poverty stricken white people being privileged and ending “systemic oppression”, but what specifically do you want done?
Also, why is this discussion only towards white people and white men in particular? Why do we never hear about “Asian privilege”. Asians make more money than any other race and hold some of the top paying jobs. Same goes for Jewish people. Why do we never hear of “female privilege”? Women aren’t arrested or incarcerated at the rate men are, women are never expected to pay on dates with men, men are expected to be the main financial providers for a family, more women are admitted to colleges, women are more likely to win child custody, and men are more likely to commit suicide. I never hear men holding up signs or wearing pink hats crying about oppression though.
Plus, I might add as an aside, rather than rebuking Kaiser’s statement or presenting your opinion with facts, you proceeded to talk very condescendingly to him acting as if he’s too dumb to understand your concept of “privilege”.
I’m sure you’ll delete my comment and I’ll be surprised if you don’t, even though it doesn’t violate any policies and just questions your assumptions. I’m curious to hear your responses to the questions I proposed in paragraphs 1, 2, and 3
Cylest Brooks
If you spend your time trying to come up with very specific, very detailed examples of when black folk would actually have more social benefit than white people so that you can make an argument against white privilege, then you’ve already proven that you know and understand the reality of the situation and you just aren’t willing to admit it. <3
mhoffman953
@CylestBrooks
Those aren’t detailed and specific examples at all. They are vague. I chose a homeless white man versus a black man in college. One is afforded scholarships based on race, the other has nothing. Does that homeless white man have privilege over the black man in college?
Your premise is that ALL whites are privileged over black people. It’s a simple question, is that homeless white man privileged over that black man? If the answer is no, then your premise no longer exists. If the answer is yes, then how?
You’re not answering my questions because you can’t, otherwise you would. Answering my questions makes your narrative fall apart. I have no problem answering your questions
Same goes for when people talk of “male privilege”. No such thing exists. I discuss that in paragraph 3 and you didn’t address it.
Sam6969
I have just discovered this notion of intersectionality in the document entitled: “Explaining white privilege to a broke white person”, provided by Cylest Brooks. I found it very interesting and enlightening on some level, but I wonder if in the original description of this analytic framework, sociologists rather use the term: social or economic “inequality” instead of the term: social or economic “privilege”. From a scientific point of view, it seems more neutral and objective. I agree it is often objectively more difficult existentially to belong to certain categories than others, but to the term “privilege” can too easily be added in its use a subjective (and I must say ideological) dimension (or twist) related to the way we deal with those inequalities and objective difficulties.
I take an example to clarify. Consider a black bouddhist person saying this life is more difficult for him than the average person in this society, because he is black, gay, poor and disabled. He also says that from a spiritual and karmic perspective, he thinks that it was exactly the kind of life he had to live to grow spiritually. Then he thinks it is a privilege for him to live this difficult life. From the point of view of his ego, it sure is a difficult life, but from the perspective of his consciousness and philosophy of life, it is also a privilege. A white cisgender straight rich man might not evolve as much spiritually as him or maybe, this black man will be existentially privileged in the next life? Millions of people in the world think like that.
You see, the philosophy of life and ideologies are factors that color the way we see things and therefore, the word “privilege” although true in itself, its USE can be easily connoted by the above mentioned factors and not be strictly objective…unless the context is mentioned. Its use can vary from a person to another.
SiamSam
If it was just called “majority privilege”, I could almost get on board with this concept. But we rarely hear any criticisms of racial majorities in non-white countries enjoying undue privileges because of their numeral supremacy, only white-majority ones. Why is this? I live in Thailand, but never hear any of these oh-so-woke progressives and so-inclined academics criticize “Thainess” or “Thai privilege”, mock “Thai tears” or “Thaisplaining” or whatever, even though Thailand is still a classist and racist country. No, this divisive, toxic ideology is weaponized and deployed only against members of Caucasian or European origin. Again, why this selective outrage and collective shaming? Historically, whites have been just as prone to suffer subjugation, oppression, slavery, ethnic cleansing, democide or genocide as other “races”. Plenty of non-white empires and civilizations raped, butchered, invaded and enslaved their “inferior” neighbors throughout the millennia. Stop with this racist scapegoating and scaremongering.
DHT
Actually I think SiamSam makes a lot of sense…why isn’t it called “majority privilege”. Within this context, calling it “white privilege” does seem like erroneous labelling and kind of racist. Also, I am white, but I am also latin… I am not sure if I am privileged or not. Certainly I grew up in an area where my heritage was continually denigrated, but until you know my name with my blue eyes and light hair you would never guess that I wasn’t white. Other family members are a different story, some are quite a bit darker than me.
Cylest Brooks
Privilege is not all or nothing. Almost every person experiences privilege in some capacity, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t marginalized in other ways. Folks want to try to make privilege a ladder system but that’s not how it works.
Poor white men, for instance, are marginalized by systemic poverty, but also experience privileges for being both white and male. As a white-passing latin man, you experience some privilege and some marginalization. It’s okay to acknowledge that you receive privilege in some aspects of your life but not others.
I think we don’t call it “majority privilege” because it silences the struggles. White privilege is an important term because it is specific… there’s no way to hide behind it or be confused about it. It is the privilege a person receives because they are white. Plus, calling it “majority privilege” is just gonna make
shitty white menracists try to use it like some kind of currency, exchanging the ways they are a “minority” as a way to pay for their privilege so they don’t have to take responsibility for it.Sam6969
Actually, on a social and economic level, and in the context of an activism fighting for equal rights, better social representation and solidarity, theoreticians, activists and their sympathizers address any kind of (what are mostly) majority privileges that can lead to oppression, not necessarily white privilege. If I understood it correctly it can imply any race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, social class, financial situation, education level, intellectual, psychological and physical abilities, etc. that can be seen as inequalities or “privileges” over another group (in this above mentioned level and context), because they can lead to various kinds of oppression, sometimes very obvious and sometimes very subtle. A minority within a minority is also subject to an inequality often leading to a sort of oppression. Even if they are not a minority, women can still be oppressed in their own ways in patriarchal societies.
SiamSam, in Thailand, your country, you also have minorities that feel oppressed. I think particularly of the South of Thailand, the Patani Region, with its cultural specificities rooted well prior to the Thai rule period. The muslim people there have been in a conflict for a long time with the Thai government, because they do not feel respected in their beliefs and culture. They feel oppressed as a minority and in danger of erasure by the assimilation process.
That’s how those theoreticians and activists of social change see the world and try to make people aware of the sometimes unconscious dynamics at play between groups of people.
I suppose also that if you are a straight black man angry over racism and what you perceive as white privilege, then you have to understand as well that you have privileges as a straight black man over LGBTQ black people, particularly women or even straight black women. It works both ways. So, if you buy this take on the world, you need to question yourself as well and not think you are, a priori, not an oppressor yourself. At the end of this process, hopefully there will be more conscious beings, inclusion and pacified interactions everywhere.
So, maybe activists should better explain the concept, rather than giving the impression that it is all about white privileges. Pointing a finger at a specific social group is highly at risk of misinterpretation.
As I wrote in my previous comment, mentioning the ideological context coloring objective observations is important for all people to feel respected and not manipulated into thinking or doing things they do not fully comprehend.
It includes being aware that inequalities do not lead necessarily to oppression or that inequalities are not necessarily a “bad” thing to experience, depending on people’s beliefs.
I took this paradoxical but widespread belief that on a spiritual level and in the context of spiritual growth philosophies or doctrines, some spiritual figures, followers and sympathizers approach inequalities and suffering (and good actions) also as opportunities to grow personally, spiritually and improve their karma for better future lives (or grow beyond the cycle of reincarnations). For them, these are facts and from that standpoint, it can paradoxically be unintuitively a privilege to live a difficult life.
So, I mean it is important for social activists not to think they possess the ultimate truth, though they can bring a lot of positive changes in our societies.
SiamSam
Sam6969 While I don’t agree fully with your perspective I love how you express it. That non-combative tone makes me much more open to considering it. You don’t just dismiss me with “That’s just your white privilege talking.” If only the “white privilege” true believers would take this approach. It borders on a cult or religion.
Sam6969
Specifying how we can be socially privileged or not, depending on personal and collective characteristics, can also be seen as part of a process of consciousness differentiation. It is meant to deepen our consciousness and it is a journey in itself that has the potential to improve the exchanges and harmony between people. It can also help us grow spiritually, collectively and individually (in a different way than previously mentioned).
It depends partly on the way activists expose the concepts and have gone themselves through a process of clearing their feelings (is grudge one of their hidden motivation? as It will be unconsciously felt by people). Overt Anger can be a strategy too, but it does not always work and, at least, it probably should not be hidden behind concepts. It is really a choice and I cannot say which one is better. At the very least, communication on the concepts should be improved to make (sacred) anger feel fair for everyone.
Also, as a general rule, it is better not to take people’s word for it and check by ourselves with an open mind, away from anger interferences. We may start by observing how and in what ways it is beneficial or not (on the social level) to have some personal or collective characteristics. For instance, is it beneficial or not to be born Thai buddhist compared to those born muslim in southern Thailand? Is it socially beneficial or not and in what ways to be gay compared to those being straight?
It may be a good idea to start with ourselves (if it is the right time) as a reference and to extend the reasoning to other less obvious characteristics of ours and then other people or group of people. (Self)-observations spread along a continuum, as people never polarize in only one way.
Whatever our conclusions, we will have taken a step towards more objectivity.
DHT
@mhoffman953. Unfair, you are totally misquoting Cylest. She didn’t say “all white men are shitty” at all. I’m paraphrasing here but what she said was shitty white men would use the term “majority advantage” to their benefit by claiming they are not the majority and she is absolutely right, there are a lot of shitty white men who would do so. You and I both know that this is true.
mhoffman953
@DHT
But she did not say “a lot”, she did not say “some”, she did not say “a few”, she did not say “most”. She used “shitty” to describe white men. If I used the same terminology on here, whether I was talking about all, some, most, or a little then I would have my comment removed because it violates Queerty’s comment policy.
Why is the person that is supposed to enforce the comment policy not held to the same standard?
If I was describing a group of people and said “shitty black women”, “shitty Muslim men”, “shitty Mexicans”, or “shitty black men” in a sentence, you can guarantee my comment would be removed and I may get banned from here.
If we are now allowed to describe groups of people, whether all members of that group or some, as shitty, then it should be updated in the new comment policy because it is a violation of the policy which she was supposedly hired to enforce.
Cylest Brooks
I have edited my comment to be more clear about whom I was referencing.
🙂
Stilinski26
Yawn! I am not even white but these white liberals makes me cringe with their virtue signalling
LibraOracle
White supremacists only aknowledge “straight” white men/women as worthy of privilege in society, they don’t care much about white gays, it makes sense if white gay men/women fought with other minorities against them.