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THE ISSUE: Question 1. A No vote upholds same-sex marriage legislation.

Live results updated here and here.

• With 87% of precincts reporting, the Yes effort passes with a 52.8-47.2% vote.

• Remember, some 100,000 votes were cast via absentee ballot or early voting.

What happens if we lose in Maine? Depending on how close the final tally, there may be a statewide recount. It could take several weeks, but every precinct’s votes would be re-tallied, and absentee ballots included. Explains No On 1’s legal counsel Kate Knox to OpenLeft.org: ” The campaign has to wait for certification from the Sec of State, which will happen after all absentee ballots come in. In Maine, there is a no-excuse absentee ballot law and she expects there to be a ‘significant’ number of absentees. The certification takes a maximum of 20 days but is almost always done before then. The campaign has to pay a nominal fee (ranging from a few hundred bucks to $10K but more likely to be a few hundred) depending on how close the vote is. The recount is statewide, all or nothing. Not challenging individual precincts. Based on past experience, the recount will take at least a few weeks and likely longer than that.”

The scene in Maine: No On 1 campaign manager Jesse Connolly just told supporters that there will likely be no declaration of victory or defeat tonight, as there are still votes to count, which could continue on through the wee hours. The mood is somber.


THE ISSUE: Referendum 71. A Yes vote upholds domestic partnership benefits.

Live results here and here.

→ Reject 71 group closes supporters’ party to the media.

• With 50% of precincts reporting, the Yes effort leads 51.1-48.9%.

• Polls have closed.



In New Jersey’s Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine (gay marriage supporter) v. Republican Chris Christie (gay marriage foe) race, the polls closed at 8pm EST.

→ Live results here.

• AP calls race for Christie.

• With 71% of precincts reporting, Christie leads Corzine 50-40.


→ Live results here.

• Annise Parker v. Gene Locke: 30.5-25.6%.

• Low 11% voter turnout. Even without any long lines at polling places. Early voting took in 81,000 votes.


THE ISSUE: Ordinance 1856. A Yes vote would grant LGBT protections.

Polls closed. Results coming in here. Early reports from OneKalamazoo field director Trystan Reese say it passed. As of 9:15pm EST, is already celebrating victory,” with 65-35 voting Yes before absentee ballots are counted.


Anti-gays candidate Bob McDonnell elected governor. Ken Cuccinelli elected lieutenant governor. More here.


• Mayor Michael Bloomberg expected to secure third term against opponent Bill Thompson. UPDATE: Or not? Thompson already called Bloomberg to concede.

• Lesbian Christine Quinn re-elected City Councilwoman.


Openly gay man Charles Pugh wins City Council president’s seat.


Sandra Kurt becomes first openly gay member of the Akron City Council.

Get Queerty Daily

Subscribe to Queerty for a daily dose of #akron #anniseparker #charlespugh stories and more


  • Wonka

    I checked Pollster.com,,your numbers are way off

  • YellowRanger

    As of now, Maine is back on the no side of the fence.

    54.48% to 45.52…

  • PopSnap

    Ugh, whats takin them so loonggggggg? It’s been at 32 of 650 for like twenty minutes….

  • hyhybt

    About those absentee ballots: are they being counted now along with today’s ballots, have they been counted in advance and are the first ones reported, or do they not get counted until sometime later?

  • PopSnap

    There are over 100,000 absentee ballots, i’d say 90% of em are No on 1 because those for No on 1 went door to door offering absentee ballots to people.

    Your guess is as good as mine; I believe the more rural regions are being counted at the moment because they have lower populations. This bodes well for us if we’re ahead.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    Should nearby ponds be dredged?

  • Brian

    High voter turnout in Maine may mean the Churches got people excited. Some polling data is indicating that “young” voters are not out today. Seniors are.

    Same Sex Marriage in New Jersey is now dead. Christie pledged to veto any Bill sent to his desk.

  • jason

    I found the Maine marriage question confusing. It seemed to be a double negative in the way it was written. Can’t the question formulation be done in a less confusing way?

    We pay lawyers good money to express these questions clearly. Obviously, they’re not doing their jobs properly.

  • jason

    Why are we in the gay community even accepting referenda like this? We’re allowing our opponents to control our lives. When blacks were fighting for civil rights, did you see them surrender to the popular vote on whether blacks should have equal rights? I don’t think so.

    Our rights aren’t up for a vote, thanks. We need to make this absolutely clear.

  • tjr101

    Same-sex marriage is now a goner in NJ… Christie wins.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    To Jason, One good thing that comes out of this is that the conversation is bringing about change at an incredible pace. People are actually becoming educated about us mysterious queers and some are seeing how absurd discrimination is in 2009.

  • Paul

    Well, at least with the homophobes like Christie, we know where we stand; with supposed “friends” like Obama, we just get dicked around. Any change is going to have to come from talking to all the people we know and telling them why they need to change their minds/hearts about us.

  • Mark Reed

    We NEED to March and DEMAND. Tonights results make that clear. We should have had a March in Maine. New Jersey is lost.

    Join EqualityAcrossAmerica and express your anger. We need your passion and your contributions.


    Don’t wait – give today.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    New Jersey is so F……….

  • shea

    Same sex marriage is gone in Maine as well. Lets face it, every time the courts or the legislature take action to restore our rights, the “people” (read: ignorant bigots) take it away. Until that power is eliminated through legal and legislative means, there is no point in continuing to push through same sex marriage legislation. It will just get overturned in a “democratic” election.

  • Jim

    Thank you Obama for all your support in Maine.
    We lost. You played gold and basketball.

  • Attmay

    I will never set foot in Maine as long as I live, nor will I buy anything from that state, until this hate crime is repealed. Democracy is tyranny, and this is more proof.

    It is the right and the duty of the judiciary to strike down bad laws.

  • YellowRanger

    Can we please stop playing nice and start going after the religious organizations and hate groups in the harshest way imaginable? They’ve been doing it to us for years, and obviously it’s effective. Stop playing defense and start going on the offense. Stop kindly asking for more rights every November and start demanding equality. Start fighting these heifers and cretins and stop letting them put this shit to a public vote.

  • Brian

    Religion won again. LGBT has NEVER beaten religion. Now, even in Maine, where only 48% of the population makes religion “important.”

    The Ad with the Catholic that supported SSM pissed of the other Catholics – they came out to vote. The turnout killed us. People won’t “come out” for LGBT – unless we “come out.”

  • Sapphocrat

    12:23 AM
    487 of 605 (80%) precincts reporting

    Yes 242921 52.44%
    No 220336 47.56%

    “Live free or die,” my ass.

    “Ohhhhh! But politics doesn’t work the same way in Maine as it does in California! Maine is diiiiiiiiiiiifferent! Trust me! I know! Mainers don’t fall for that crap! And they really don’t like out-of-staters mucking around in their affairs!”


    Fuck you, Maine. Hard. Up the ass with a flaming, Tabasco-drenched Maggie Gallagher doll.

    OTOH, did anyone really expect any different? Seriously? How about those Dem losses?

    Honest to goddess, I didn’t.

    Is it going to take losing fucking EVERYTHING before the bed-wetting apologists man up and starting fighting as dirty as the Hate Brigades?

    Rhetorical question. We’re fucked as long as there are enough spineless fags and dykes stupid enough to keep pumping money and votes into the do-nothing, know-nothing Democratic machine, and as long as this bullshit “50-state” meme is chanted like a fucking mantra.

    But, hey, why am I wasting keystrokes? Nobody ever listens to those of us who haven’t got the funds to pony up a grand for the “privilege” of sitting within eyeball distance of Joe Solmonese at the next cocktail party.

    I’m just wasting space that will (in 3… 2… 1…) be taken up by the Auntie Dorothys who can’t stand having their fragile little sense of cognitive dissonance upended.

    Flame away, apologists, flame away.

    But when you fall off that roof and break both legs, don’t come running to those of us who keep saying, “I told you so.”


    I say we boycott marriage altogether. Stop participating. If you’re a hair-dresser…refuse to do weddings…same for party planners, florists, or anyone involved in creating those fucking awful oppressive events.


    Take a stand…take it now…our cival rights are NOT a spectator sports.



  • Alexander

    GO KALAMAZOO! Now every city of size in MI has equal protection! We can do more here! What’s next?!

  • rudy

    No. 22 · YCKTR
    That was already a play by Paul Rudnick called “Regrets Only.”
    It starrred Christine Baranski.

  • MrBojangles

    This is depressing. One year after prop 8, we’re defeated AGAIN. I know not every vote has been counted, but, short of a miracle, it’s not looking good. Maybe after two referendum fiascos, we’ll have learned we can’t win this simply by playing nice and standing idly by while the other team spreads misinformation.

    I’m worried this is just going to demoralize us rather than motivate us to fight harder in the future.

  • ...


  • Bruno

    I’ll just have to move to New Hampshire instead of Maine. Too bad, I like the coastline.

    Seriously though, it’s a small state with 2 Republican senators and no cities over 100k. Not much of a loss in my opinion.

  • Topher in SLC

    To add to the list of local GLBT candidates…

    Salt Lake City elected our first openly gay city councilman (and fourth openly gay elected official in Utah).

  • SoylentDiva

    Tell me again why we should go around kissing asses and begging people for our rights?

    How about this? I’ll sit on my ass doing nothing for the next 10 years. More likely than not we’ll accomplish as much as we did when I was bending over backwards to eradicate these hateful laws.

    Hate and fearmongering win every time. No matter how many times we expose the liars for what they are, people will still vote against us because the assholes invoked “the children” in their pack of propaganda.

  • joe

    What’s the point of democracy if the majority of the people suck?
    We should have a ruling elite of ethicists and philosophers.
    This is fucking bullshit.

  • Blame Obama

    Obama said, “I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

  • No Wonder

    Who gives a shit? Queerty’s Equality march attracted 20,000 people who could have been canvassing in Maine. But it was much more important to have a party on the Mall. Congrats, kids! Got any more bright ideas?

  • Mike L.

    This just pisses me the fuck off!!!!!

    I swear if Obama doesn’t do what he said he’d do in the campaign I will not vote for him come 2012.


    Sure I’m glad he signed the hates crime bill, but damn it’s not like he did much about it b4 (just sweet talk us like it seems he has being doing all along).

    DAMN IT! He’s the first pres I ever voted for, I feel vehemently upset right now.

    Does he not want to be known in history books as the first black pres who gave the FAGS(!!!) equal rights?!

    What the fuck is up with his DOJ shutting down every single lawsuit aimed are reppealing anti gay laws!

    If they’re not gonna freaken do shit on the orad for us why the fuck do they block our lawsuits!!! WHATS UP WITH THAT MR PRESIDENT?!

    I’m regretting more and more to’ve had voted for him instead of Hilary, FUCK!!!!!

  • No Wonder

    We need another Queerty Equality march! The last one worked so well!

  • Kropotkin

    “Can we please stop playing nice and start going after the religious organizations and hate groups in the harshest way imaginable? They’ve been doing it to us for years, and obviously it’s effective. Stop playing defense and start going on the offense. Stop kindly asking for more rights every November and start demanding equality. Start fighting these heifers and cretins and stop letting them put this shit to a public vote.”

    We should also start going after our fair-weather “allies”, either they are for marriage equality, DADT and ENDA or they’re not. No excuses, no exceptions. Either you’re a bigot or you’re not.

  • B

    Brian wrote, “Religion won again. LGBT has NEVER beaten religion. Now, even in Maine, where only 48% of the population makes religion ‘important.'” Talk about a broken record! Brian continually blames religion, yet according to http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_rel_no_rel_per-people-religion-no-percent 20% of California has no religion and 16 percent of Maine has no religion. Yet Proposition 8 and Question 1 passed by similar margins. Meanwhile, Massachusetts has 16 percent who claim no religion and allows same-sex marriages. Iowa allows same-sex marriages and 13 percent in that state have no religion.

    The data simply do not support Brian’s hypothesis.

    Furthermore, if you look at the data for Main by county, 60% of Cumberland County (which includes Portland) rejected Question 1, while in Portland, 73% rejected Question 1. For a while Question 1 seemed to be losing. That was because the more isolated communities, where votes were counted manually, reported last. Some counties were very heavily against same-sex marriage, so the demographic picture within Maine is complicated.

    The most likely factor may be that a FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) campaign against same-sex marriage works best in small, backward communities were people are not likely to know very many gay individuals, but it will take some careful analysis (and some polling) to get an idea of what is going on.

  • B

    Sapphocrat wrote (regarding the vote in Maine) “‘Live free or die,’ my ass.” I hate to let reality rear its ugly head, but “Live free or die” is the motto of New Hampshire, not Maine.

  • AlwaysGay

    No Wonder, we were going to lose no matter what. Gay people need to realize the pure hatred heterosexuals have for us. The vast majority of haterosexuals don’t even know an openly gay person but they have this burning hatred for us within them. You have to look at the reasons why haterosexuals hate us, which are presented in the study “The Gender Belief System, Authoritarianism, Social Dominance Orientation, and Heterosexuals’ Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men.”

    Voter turnout was way higher than any other off year election. Even though NO on 1 had the better organized field operation the hateroscum feared the worst and came out to take away gay couples right to marry. It never fails.

  • Sapphocrat

    @B: Thanks for the correction.

    I looked up Maine’s motto: “Dirigo” (Latin “I direct” or “I lead”).

    That’s even worse. If Maine “leads,” it’s “leading” us all down the bloody toilet.

    P.S. “Fuck Maine” anyway.

  • B

    Bruno wrote, “Seriously though, it’s a small state with 2 Republican senators and no cities over 100k. Not much of a loss in my opinion.”

    The real loss is those two Republican senators – small states have a relatively large influence in the U.S. Senate.

  • Sapphocrat

    @AlwaysGay: “haterosexuals” — love it. I’m going to steal it.

  • YellowRanger

    Well, it looks like we pulled off separate but equal in Washington.


  • Schteve


    Brain is referring not to absence of religion, but the portion of the population for whom religion is not significant. His number comes from a Gallup poll on the matter (http://www.gallup.com/poll/114022/state-states-importance-religion.aspx) where Maine is one of only four states where the majority of citizens cite religion as unimportant in their lives.

  • LoveMoby

    Good god, how pathetic! We lost in Maine!!!! I thought Maine was supp to be a progressive state.

    Very dissapointing and disheartening.

    Any word on what our ‘fierce advocate’ has to say?

  • naghanenu

    The news just came in Yes on 1 won

  • No Wonder

    No Wonder, we were going to lose no matter what.

    In early October, Queerty and its friends at the Equality march decided to send 20,000 people (not 100,000 or 200,000) into Washington to hold a party. If half of those people had gone to Maine and canvassed instead of doing their circuit party on the mall, the result might have been different.

  • Nick

    Obviously it was the negroes that ruined it for us in Maine. Damn negroes!

  • hyhybt

    So why is marriage supposed to be dead in NJ? I thought they were supposed to pass it before the new term starts anyway, in which case the incoming governor wouldn’t have anything to do with it.

  • Bruno

    @HYHYBT: I wouldn’t be surprised if Corzine and the NJ legislature tries to push that through before he goes, like they said. Especially now that he hasn’t been re-elected, he’ll want to be remembered for something. I wonder if the NJ legislature was affected adversely by Maine’s vote though.

  • Mike L.

    A fierce advocate my ass!

    Ima start calling everyday to the white house and voice my displeasure about this and many other things.

    I guess this is what happens when you put ppls civil rights up for a vote by the people.

    I wonder which states would bring back slavery if civil rights for blacks were up for vote too, or which states would outlaw interracial marriages if people could vote on it too.

    I wonder. It’s really interesting reading the posts of stormfront (It’s really hilarious at times reading the crap they think) forum posters especially about interracial marriages, from that I’m sure there are states where a majorty of people would do away with some rights.

    P.s. I tumbled on their page when reading about australian blacks(the other dark meat, lol, ok a little racist, sorry to my gay black brothers) and and how they are treated and problems within their communities etc, yeah I have no life.

  • Mike L.

    @Nick over 95% of mainers are WHITE. Get your facts straight yo.

  • naghanenu

    Instead of ranting..i think gays should take a step back and think about this..well.

    Wahsington looks steady to win because domestic partnerships for everyone is being debated…if the word had been marriage then trust me i think we would have had the same Maine result

    Most People (religious or not) do not have the understanding that marriage is for everyone. Look, just accept this. I think you should vote to have rights that are the same as marriage but is not refered to as marriage because people…even the young folk..have an issue referring to gay relationships that way

  • No Wonder

    The thing to do is to privatize marriage. Take the government out of it. Make partnerships all be civil unions in the eyes of the government, and have marriage be strictly a religious matter. I remember making this argument at a gay meeting six years ago and being hissed at. Eventually people will come around to that view.

    Oh, and quit it with circuit parties dressed up as Equality marches.

  • vernonvanderbilt

    The bigots need to die. Right this instant. All of ’em. Painfully. Fuck this namby-pamby, “we’re just like you,” begging for our rights bullshit. These pig fuckers want a war? Let’s give them a fucking war already!

    We need to start playing dirty, people. The high road has gotten us absolutely nothing. NOTHING. Two wrongs can make a right. It’s not revenge, it’s balance.

    We need to start digging up dirt on ALL of our enemies and use it against them at every opportunity. We need to get some dirt on our so-called “friends” as well, and let them know that we’ll use it if we have to. Those motherfuckers will get the hint. If they won’t do the right thing because it’s the right thing, then we need to make them do the right thing because they fear the consequences of doing the wrong thing.

    NOM and all the other relio-bigoted organizations want to fill their ads with (extremely effective) lies? Then let’s lie our fucking asses off right back. Hell, I heard about a guy in CA trying to outlaw divorce. Let’s start getting some of that shit on the ballots nationwide and see what people really think about the sanctity of fucking marriage. Dirty! Obviously that shit works, goddammit! Let’s dip our hands in the fucking mud already.

    Stonewall was a riot, not a tea party. Let us never forget that until our rights are secured. The bigots are never going to love us, and trying to get them to is a waste of time and resources. It’s time to put the fear into them instead.

    Maybe I sound a little unhinged, but I don’t give a shit. It’s time to make these motherfuckers pay. I advocate using any techniques at our disposal to get our point across, no matter how underhanded, immoral, or illegal. You can’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs. Let’s start breaking their eggs for a change.

    I’m too pissed and tired to be anything less than honest. One of these days I’ll say everything that’s on my mind. And if things don’t start to change…well, I may start doing the things that are on my mind as well.

  • Otis Criblecoblis

    The people of Maine have spoken.

    And we can speak with our dollar$.

    They don’t deserve a single one of us visiting & spending money in their close-minded state.

  • Mark

    I’ve written my friends in Maine, who are on our side, but I’ve made it very clear to them I will never step foot in the state again. I’ve been there twice and that was three times to many.

  • Vo Dong Cung

    Only one way LGBT can win, that must show the priests child sex abuse clearly as much as posible everyday. Show to the public what the liar they are. Any billboard, any flyer must print the picture of priest and young boy or young girl in action, like the way Westboro Baptist Church did. I don’t know why LGBT forget paedophil priests so easely. Do not let Vatican run away by using money to cover up their sins and buy the laws. Help this webside ( http://www.vaticancrimes.us ) to reach out to your family, your friends, your neighbour…..

    California last year and Maine today, tell us the popular change constitution, not the law makers, this is the “non-democracy” under the umbrella of “fake democracy”. If American do not stop them, US constitution will not align with UN human right any more and backward to slavery doctrime.

  • David

    Zomg Maine worse then California. What a depressing day. Even though im from another country.

  • Forrest

    Glad Washington State looks like it’s not moving backwards. But the split will give ammo to those who will say second class DP’s are good enough for the gays.

    Most people are dumb sheep, saying “gays will convert your kids and take over the schools” is a winning tactic. It’s easier to be scared then actually think critically. All the ads with adorable gay parented families and loving grandmas does not change that.

    Our eventual win will come through the court system and not the ballot box. I am ready to abandon this route.

  • No Wonder

    Our eventual win will come through the court system and not the ballot box.

    I don’t think very many courts are going to overturn anti-gay marriage laws. Look folks, 31 states have voted on the issue and the track record is 31-0. I think it just might be time for a different approach.

  • Forrest

    So what do we do next in Maine? Back to the Statehouse? I fear those reps who voted for marriage equality will be afraid to back us again.

  • jason

    I found the pro-gay ads in Maine to be incredibly saccharine. Also, we failed to stress that we simply want the right to civil marriage, not religious marriage. We failed to stress the word “civil”.

    Also, the question was phrased in a confusing style. There were two components in the same sentence. Another thing was that the question should have included the word “civil” before “gay marriage”. Why wasn’t this done? Am I correct in this assertion?

  • jason

    I just think that this will wake a lot of us up. We’ve been too indulgent as a movement. We forgot that rights can be taken away by a bigoted majority. We’ve been more interested in having a good time – ie sex parties, drugs.

  • Rainfish

    Our Greatest Strength is Also Our Greatest Weakness…

    Why should the birthright of equality for tens of millions of GLBT American citizens first depend upon getting a majority of people to stop hating them? There would be a tidal wave of blood flowing in the streets and entire cities set ablaze if any other minority’ s rights were put up so callously for majority approval by a lynch mob disguised as a so-called “public referendum”.

    The concept of a Bill of Rights and a Federal Constitution which originally guaranteed inalienable equality and unimpeachable rights is truly dead in America. Human equality and civil rights in the United States now mainly depends upon how popular you are with your local neighbors who have been, for the most part, brain-washed by the various perversions of the Christian religion into hating you — that is, if you just happen to belong to the GLBT community.

    As I stated before, the most primal, gut-level reaction to that kind of invidious injustice would be to understandably strike out with fury and outrage against your oppressors. Yet, like millions of other civilized people before us — witness the millions of Jews who walked meekly into the concentration camps, and to their deaths, in Nazi Germany– we too are victims of our own civility.

    Ironically, the gentleness and the Christ-like benevolence of the GLBT community is our greatest virtue — but, sadly, it can also be our greatest weakness too.

  • andrew

    Clearly, there were lots of Maine liberals who voted against our rights.

  • Forrest


    Go tell Jesse Connelly and all the people who fought their hearts out in Maine that they only care about sex,parties,and drugs.

    Fuck off

  • jason


    Of course there are gay people who fight for gay rights. But there are too many in our community who see “gay” as a passport to permissiveness and sleaze. Sleaze dulls the senses and inactivates the brain.

    My greatest concern is that we in the gay community have failed to criticize our fellow gays who are more interested in obtaining orgasms than in organizing.

  • Forrest

    I don’t see our continual failures on these fights as the “gays fault” we are only getting more united in our fight. We just keep on getting our asses kicked at the ballot box. O-31 begs a new strategy.

    DNC and Obama are cowards but I don’t think it would have made any difference if he had spoken out. Our opponents have rock solid support from the 50 and above crowd and religious zealots.

    We have college kids who are not as reliable, and allies who more often than not think: “oh bigotry won’t pass I don’t need to vote”

  • kademonster

    “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.” — Thomas Jefferson

  • Forrest

    I still think 20 years from now people will look back in horror that people voted on other’s rights to marry. Of course if it takes that long I will have lost my boyish good lucks and no one will want to marry me. Damn it. Timing is everything.

  • jason

    Another thing I’ve noticed is that our opponents are good at connecting gay rights to sexual activity. This was obvious in how they promoted the notion that gay marriage would lead to “it” being taught in primary schools. “It” was simply code for “gay sexual activity being taught in primary school”.

    We should have challenged them head-on on this issue.

  • Jolly

    Also in Houston, Lane Lewis is heading into a run-off for District A City Councilman.

  • Forrest

    On the bright side….here on the local level in North Carolina we had a good night!

    1. Chapel Hill elected an openly gay Mayor. Granted it’s a college town and one of the most liberal in the country. But progress is progress! Neighborhing Carrboro had a gay Mayor until a few years ago.

    2. Here in Charlotte Dems elected a gay friendly Mayor. Progressive Dems also swept City Council races.

    3. The pro-gay rights slate in Asheville won convincingly.

    4. And in MI….let’s not forget to give a WOOHOO TO KALAMAZOO!!!

  • Brian NJ

    Obama just won’t take strong action on injustice. The failure is crucial to the base, and keeping a strong base going into the midterms and his re-election. So he is headed for defeat. It is a shame.

  • Forrest

    I can’t understand our opposition in Maine. I mean they are pretty much surrounded by gay marriage. Can’t they see that life has not ended in VT,MA,CT, and soon NH? Not to mention Canada?

    Migraine inducing!

  • Forrest

    This win will definitely embolden our enemies ( opponent is too respectful, they are our enemies) to lay groundwork for repeals in states that already have gay marriage in place. We need to be on guard.

  • InExile

    Thank you President Obama for remaining silent (AGAIN) while our civil rights were voted away in Maine!

  • Brian NJ

    Don’t bother Commander Tuvok, he is busy with his political calculations.

  • tjr101

    I’m wondering who Dan Savage and the other bloggers are going to blame for this… there aren’t many black folks in Maine. What a quandary they’re in.

  • jason

    The gay media elite deserve to be tossed out and replaced with a new vibrant group. This is now the second campaign we’ve lost after California. We need new blood, not these tired failures.

  • Robert, NYC

    Well, what could we expect? I had no illusion about a win in Maine. New Jersey of course is done for. The bigots win because they outnumber us. Maine’s wasn’t even a close call, we were creamed. My gut feeling is that New York will go the same way, NOM, the roman cult and its storm troopers, the Knights of Columbus are extremely busy gathering signatures to overturn any same-sex marriage legislation. If Governor Paterson loses marriage equality, the next governor of our state will either be Giuliani or Lazio….both anti marriage equality foes. We’re fucked either way.

  • Sam

    @Jason: The question is formulated by the Secretary of State, not the campaigns. Blame them for it being confusing.

    Also, the “gay media elite” are being “tossed out” by the economy. Advocate just became an “insert.”

  • Sam

    @Robert, NYC: New York doesn’t have referendum or initiative, dude. NOM can gather 20 million signatures and it won’t overturn anything in New York.

  • Javier

    While I think there is a place for blaming the DNC and White House for the defeat in Maine, most of the blame belongs with the gay and progressive community for being so uncommitted and unwise about these campaigns. First thing, we should never push for gay marriage in a state like Maine where it is almost certain that voters will have the chance to repeal such a law through voter referendum. Maine is a state with an easy people’s veto, that has overturned gay rights before. Gay marriage probably can’t win on the ballot in any state today, except for possibly MA, and that is a huge POSSIBLY. What Einstein thought it would be a good state to push for gay marriage already? It was inevitable that it would be subject to a people’s veto, likely it would be overturned by the people.

    Until we are almost CERTAIN that voters will support gay marriage at the ballot box in states with easy referendum processes, we need to avoid legalizing gay marriage in those jurisdictions. Stop blaming everyone else and start placing the blame on our inability to work hard and commit to this cause. Although the No on One Campaign in Maine was better than California’s No on Prop 8 campaign, it still failed to engage people to change their minds and produced lackluster, milquetoast ads that lacked the emotional punch of the other side. From now on, we need to go for the jugular in our ads and stop relying on soft “equality is good” ads. Use fear and anger in your ads, present the other side as the boogeyman, portray the other side as a scarey threat out to oppress the average person, not just gays.

    Moreover, our lack of fervor, dedication, and zeal is why we CONTINUE to lose. The other side is more organized, zealous, sacrificial, and dedicated to their cause. Many gay people aren’t even aware of the Maine struggle, most gay people didn’t even donate money. Tons of gay and progressive volunteers should have flown or bussed into Maine to help out with the cause. We are most to blame.

    Finally, while I respect Nate Silver’s analysis, I think he is very overly optimistic in his predictions of when the majority of a state’s population will support gay marriage. While religiosity is a factor in same-sex marriage support, it is not dispositive or totally predictive of popular sentiment on this issue. There are many non-religious anti-gay people. Moreover, his calculations don’t account for the enthusiasm and organization gap on this issue. The ANTI-gay side is so much more devoted, zealot, certain, and sacrificial to their side than the pro-gay side, and Maine is another example. People came out from the crypt to vote against the gays. ANother thing is that there is in fact a “Bradley Effect” with gay issues. The anti-gay side usually performs about 5-9 points better on election day than they do in polling. And you can count on undecideds to go to the anti-gay side. Nate Silver needs to go back and recalculate his projections with more important factors such as the rural-urban ratio, age demographics, the ease of ballot initiatives/referenda, educational level, and Black population.

    The point is we should avoid at all cost passing gay marriage in jurisdictions where there is an easy referendum or ballot initiative process. In the meantime, we should be out trying to change minds.

  • jason

    Robert, NYC,

    That’s why we need legislation akin to the black civil rights act of the 1960’s. This act over-rode bigotry.

    Failing getting an act, we need to get the courts to over-ride the bigots. The bigots need to be put in their places once and for all.

    The gay community also needs to address this festering issue about gay marriage being taught in school. We need to face it head-on instead of hiding and denying.

  • Robert, NYC

    Sam, I plead ignorance, I wasn’t aware of that, thank you for informing me. I think Connecticut operates that way too, if I’m not mistaken, maybe I’m wrong. In any event if that’s the case, why would NOM and other hate sects bother if it means they’ll get nowhere? This means then that the GOP will be more aggressive than ever in getting a republican elected as governor, assuming that Paterson loses.

  • Robert, NYC

    Jason, I concur with you, thanks.

  • jason


    While I agree with you about the shocking indifference of many gay people to gay marriage rights, I have to disagree with you about avoiding pushing for marriage rights in certain states. I think we should push for gay marriage in every single state.

    Any gay man who is more interested in taking party drugs and attending sex parties does not deserve to be called gay nor does he deserve the rights that the gay community has fought for over the years.

  • Forrest

    I agree with Javier. Once again we get bodyslammed by a state wtih an absurdly easy mob rule veto mechanism. NO MORE. And if we have run out of states like CT,VT,etc then we stop fighting losing battles at the ballot and just fight in the courts.

  • Forrest

    Yeah, I know Prop 8, but we have The Mass and Iowa Supreme Court rulings in our favor. I would much rather fight it out in the court system. Instead of pointless ballot fights that thrive on groupthink bigotry.

  • Attmay

    @55, Vernonvanderbilt:

    Sign me the fuck up. I’m all for doing whatever it takes to get our rights BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. I will not hesitate to kill these goy mother fuckers if they cross me. This is your casus belli, gay America.

    And I will never date a Christian again. Jews and the irreligious only for me from now on.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    “I still think 20 years from now people will look back in horror that people voted on other’s rights to marry. Of course if it takes that long I will have lost my boyish good lucks and no one will want to marry me. Damn it. Timing is everything.”

    Thanks, Jason, for the first laugh of the morning. This will need to be handled Federally. It’s too much of a burden on our community to go through this state by state, financially and emotionally.

  • Sam

    @Javier: This was just round one. When Maine passed its non-discrimination law it was repealed by voters twice before finally sticking on the third round. The legislature just kept passing it until the voters were comfortable enough to keep it.

    Progress was made in Maine, my friends. It might take another go or two, but I’m fairly confident that all of New England (and New York!) will have marriage equality by 2012. If Corzine keeps his promise and gets marriage passed in the lame duck session, we can add New Jersey to that list.

    I think we need to take the fight to the blue states of the Midwest next – and we might have to settle for Civil Union/DP there in the short term. But getting “all-but-name” recognition in Illinois and Minnesota (and keeping DPs in Wisconsin) will really show that these are real heartland American values and not just something for those crazy coastal people.

  • Forrest

    Ahem, that was me ^

  • Sam

    @Equality1USA: “It’s too much of a burden on our community to go through this state by state, financially and emotionally.”

    Imagine that message from MLK. Too much work, call me when SCOTUS or Obama has fixed it all.

  • Sam

    @Forrest: Actually, Javier said it first, before you agreed with him. But if it makes you feel better, that’s for you too.

  • glennmcgahee

    Congrats to Chapel Hill, NC who just elected an openly gay man its next mayor. Shame on the Democrats who pulled workers from Maine (its just gay people) to help NJ’s Corzine.

  • terrwill

    What we need to do is mimic the Washington situation across the country. To be perfectley honest I don’t give two shits about the term “marriage”. I want the exact same rights and benefits that straight couples are entitled to and enjoy.

    If the rightwing-nutbag zealots want to claim the term “marriage” let them have it. The Gay unions I have attended where the couple basically create the ceremony to reflect their own relationship have been ten times more moving, inspiring, and heartfelt than any marriage ceremony I have attended in a church or temple. The argument these rightwing-nutbag zealots use is that they don’t wish to deny us rights but object to the term “marriage” due to religious connotations. And if they are able to deny us our rights thru continued success in legiislative and ballot mearures we will face an insurmountable battle. The success of Washington is the key. If we can get everyting but a simple term “marriage” let them have it. There will be those who will argue that we are then second class citizens. If we are entitled to every right and benefit as straight couples, can create our own ceremonies that cater to our relationships, why then fight for an institution which is based on cultures and beliefs that spread hate towards us? Again let them have the term, give us the rights…………….

  • strumpetwindsock

    Bummer about the Maine results. It is a consolation that it was close, and hopefully will be turned around.

    @ #88
    I hear your frustration, but you know we can’t just take away peoples’ gay passports that way. The fact is we have just as many people who are lazy, bigoted, and have politics we disagree with as there are in the general public.

    The only difference is most people in the general public only imagine that criminals and foreigners can be excluded from their exclusive club. They may disagree with other people, but they have to accept they are human beings with just as much right to speak.

    It’s galling, but we have to do the same, and deal with it. The people who couldn’t be bothered to act ARE part of our community, and we ARE fighting for their rights.

  • Robert, NYC

    The thing is Terrwill, many of the right wing nutbags don’t even want us to have any semblance of equality, not even civil unions. Giving us our full rights under another name is settling for state sanctioned segregation, separate but equal. I don’t think our unions outside of marriage would be taken that seriously nor would they imply they are equal in any way, shape or form. Civil marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious marriage, the two are different.

  • dontblamemeivotedforhillary

    I fully expect New York will have Governor Giuliani if Gay Marriage is an election issue now that NJ is the New Gitmo! We feel your pain, Maine and one thing is clear! America is a Nation of Hate! Welcome to the rest of our lives.

  • gay super hero

    As things stand right now the difference between the “yes” and “no” camps is 30 thousand votes.

    If 100 thousand absentee ballots have not been counted yet they can completely turn around this result.

    Does anyone know whether these votes have already been counted or have not been counted and will be counted seperately?

  • 1EqualityUSA

    Dear Sam, MLK’s fight for rights was handled Federally, eventually. This is clearly a Constitutional violation, even Numb-nuts Robert P George, “jurisprudence-man” NOM-skull from Princeton” said this to his lemming-like Brigham Young audience.

    “Just as the nation could not endure half slave and half free but eventually had to go all one way or all the other, we will not be able to get by with a situation in which some couples are married in one state, not married when they move to or travel through the next, and married again when they reach a third.
    If same sex marriage is legally recognized in a small number of states, it will spread throughout the nation, either through judicial action under the Constitution’s Full Faith and Credit Clause or by the working of informal cultural pressures. Some states – Utah would be one – may try to hold out, but sooner or later they will be whipped into line.”
    –Robert P. George, Chairman,
    National Organization for Marriage,
    speaking at Brigham Young University,
    October 28, 2008


  • smith

    fuck you Maine – North Eastern fucking red necks!

  • terrwill

    Robert, NYC: I am urging to mimic the Washington path………”everything but marriage” I will gladly accept separate but equal. I truly WANT to be separate from these rightwing-nutbag zealots.

    If we are guaranteed the exact same rights and benefits as straight couples and can create our own ceremonies which truly reflect our unique relationships rather than a scripted tired old marriage ceremony like a bad high school play what is the loss there?

  • Robert, NYC

    1EqualityUSA, even if marriage equality were handled federally, if the Supreme Court is still stacked with the haters on the far right, then I don’t see how it stands a chance of becoming law. If by chance and a miracle happens, ergo two of them die before 2012, then maybe we stand a good chance, but I doubt if we’d be that lucky, hope I’m proved wrong.

  • Robert, NYC

    Terrwill, I understand your thinking that way, but we have to look at the larger picture. We now have seven countries that abandoned civil unions for marriage and now a handful of states in the U.S. It seems to be the trend and I don’t think its going to decline. We have to think in terms of universality that only marriage brings as well as portability. Our British counterparts have civil partnerships at the national level conferring virtually all the rights of marriage without the name but once a couple leaves the UK, those partnerships are treated very differently, and in most cases, disregarded. The case for full marriage is more compelling than accepting something less than equal. We’re going to see more European countries get on board, Denmark, Iceland, Greenland, possibly Finland will be next. The horse is out of the barn, permanently.

  • Alan

    We’ll get there, guys. We just need to keep working at it secure in the knowledge that we’re right and they’re wrong and use the anger we’re all feeling as motivation.

  • benlayvey

    @ No. 30 · joe

    Its the same reason/resolution Plato offers for the eminent failure of Democracy in his “Republic.” He suggests a “Philosopher-King” is best for all. Good policies take effect fast without the delay of bureaucratic nonsense. Its a system I much favor and no he didn’t mean for idealists like Hitler to have seized power. He meant someone along the lines of ancient Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius.

  • Attmay

    With a “Democracy” like this, who needs a dictatorship?

  • 1EqualityUSA

    My mother is convinced that 12 men in a smoky room run the world.

  • Robert, NYC

    Even though ochlocracy won in Maine and California, I can’t help feeling angry at the gloating and happiness of the NOM and its co-conspirators in hate along with all the religious cults that support and promote discrimination now that they were very successful once again. We have to fight back with the same venom they used in those hateful ads. No more political correctness.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    Dredging the near-by ponds for “No on 1” mail-in ballots is out of the question?

  • strumpetwindsock

    @ #108

    It’s not that Democracy cannot work, it’s just that things like human rights and judicial decisions should never be made by referendum. It’s the equivalent of throwing an accused person to the lynch mob.

    There is a reason why the British and American systems have three branches of government to balance one another. Ironically taking every cause celebre to a referendum actually works against the spirit of democracy by tying the hands of the elected government and the courts.

    And, as in this case and many others, it results in some very bad decisions.

  • Tackle

    Since Maine is 95-percent White, i bet there will be no racist name calling/slurs. No refrence “THEY” are very homophobic as a race! No refrence to the “white” community.Or using the actions of one group in “one” state to speak for the whole of a people. Unlike Blacks who were falsely accused in California.

  • Brian

    Religion turned out for this vote by a 2:1 margin.

    Exit Poll data is coming.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    My niece and nephews and their children will appreciate the struggle we went through when equality is finally attained. Just as decades passed before the tide turned on racism, decades will pass before queers are truly incorporated into the American “dream”, even after federal intervention occurs. We have so many gifts. Queers are so smart, intuitive, creative, and articulate. This would be one grim Nation without us. We belong here as much as anyone else and the law suits will keep piling up and the drum beat will be unending. Since my marriage and then the subsequent passage of Prop Hate, it’s been a depressing year. I haven’t painted very much this year. It’s a mistake to let bigots steal our creativity and spark. It’s time to pick upour brushes again. Short of a tax revolt, we have our ongoing fight ahead of us, but let’s not forget to live in the moment. It is happening.

  • terrwill

    While we gained one in Washington and lost one in Maine. One of the most encouraging events isn’t getting a lot of play. The rightwing-nutbag zealots got a huge bitch slap by the moderates in the Repugnatcan party. In the 28th District in NY the RWNBZs forced a moderate repub out who supported abortion and Gay marriage. Scarah Pallin, Beck, Hannity and their vile ilk got behind the extreme conserative party candidate. The jilted rep candidate then supported the Democrat and thankfully the lunatic fringe lost and the Dem was elected by a significant margin.

    Goes to prove all vile poo these scumbags are spewing about “getting back to traditional values” are being rejected even by the moderate repubs. Virgnia only the last election got somewhat blue, so going red wasn’t that much of a suprise. As far as New Jersey Corizine lost because of the skyrocketing taxes in that state. Most voters polled stated moral “values” had nothing to do with their voting for Chunky Christy but rather dollar “values” So while the RWNBZs can boast how “the tide has turned” they are as usual only preaching to the choir and that choir is singing a tired old tune that the majority of Americans are tired of hearing……

  • Brian

    When will the LGBT Community understand that the opposition – religion has and army and we don’t? We have never asked for help or enlisted people in “the fight for equality,” not our fight – the fight.

    Our army is not “the Democrats.” It has to simply be people who believe in equality and will stand with us. We have never tried to do that. We have never tried to organize our own army – made up of people who believe in fairness.

    People won’t “come out” for us, until we “come out” for ourselves.

  • Attmay

    “In the 28th District in NY the RWNBZs forced a moderate repub out who supported abortion and Gay marriage.”

    Which is exactly the sort of candidate we should have been supporting, but since she doesn’t have a D by her name she’s poison to us gays and a pariah to so-called “true conservatives” who want rule or ruin and as a result stuck NY-23 with an anti-Same-sex marriage Democrat. But I’m sure HRC is happy about getting another Democrat in office.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    Chickens got more rights in 2008. Perhaps PETA could take on the gay cause.

  • Robert, NYC

    Terrwill, actually I think it was the 23rd district in NY.

    Brian, religion most definitely was at the root of our defeat as it was in California. Its been the primary instigator of homophobia for more than 2 millenia, look at its vile history around the world. These cults, primarly the roman cult are the culprits for perpetuating institutionalized homophobia. Nothing has changed that much to the present day. In this country it has grown stronger, more powerful because none of the politicians in both major parties are prepared to take them on, unlike other more progressive countries. Our problem is that we’re badly organized, not focused and not united with one national spokesperson to lead us. We need some of the zealotry the opposition adopts and look how successful they’ve been. Two states defeated, not a huge track record though, considering we have five already on board.

    Still, we have to look at New Jersey. Apparently, Corzine’s defeat doesn’t signify the end of marriage equality. He indicated some weeks ago that he would get it passed during a lame duck session saying that the votes are there. Lets hope that happens and then on to New York, we may get a positive vote as early as November 10, lets hope that too happens. If we get two more gains, its going to put a dent in the opposition. Every little bit helps.

  • Larry Nelson

    On your report on NYC, you miss the fact that two gay men where also elected to the New York City. The first is Daniel Dromm who will represent the 25th district in Queens. The other is Jimmy Van Bramer who will represent the 26th. They become the first gays elected to the council outside of Manhattan.

    aka lordlnyc

  • Brian

    Robert NYC said: “Two states defeated, not a huge track record though, considering we have five already on board.”

    The LGBT Community has never won a popular vote for same-sex marriage. Same Sex marriage is “Banned” in 41 States. The States that have same-sex marriage did it legislatively or with the help of the Courts. We don’t have a single “victory” when the people get to vote. Plus, there is DOMA.

    We lose to religion because they have an army and we don’t. The exit polls will show that the rallying call to stop same-sex marriage was made in the 1,500 churches across the State. They made it an important issue and they came out to vote.

    While only 48% of Maine residents make religion “important,” we did not and do not have a way to inspire a response like the churches. While half the population of Maine is probably fair enough to put equality before religion, they didn’t come out like the religious crowd did.

    We must figure out how to create our own army of people willing to respond to the call for equality. Until the, religion will continue to rally their troops and seal our fate.

  • Robert, NYC

    Brian, also a very much overlooked factor is the independent voter, the largest voting block in this country believe it or not. They too played a role in all this. That’s the group we need to be concentrating on in future equality legislation.

  • Brian

    @ Robert NYC:

    When we did deep into the numbers we discover that the majority of Americans believe in equality, including ours. But, we’re not reaching out to those people and asking for their help. Instead, we play political games and “demand” rights. We need to figure out how to get that majority to stand up for equality.

    HRC, LAMBDA, GLAAD, NGLTF and others are NOT DOING THAT. In fact, nobody is. That’s our problem. As a community we continue to expect “somebody else,” like the organizations I mentioned, to do our work. It’s pretty clear after 30-40 years that they can’t or won’t.

    The LGBT Community really needs a comprehensive strategy to obtain equality. We are NOT making progress when our fellow citizens keep voting against us.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    With all of the post-article, hateful, negative banter that I was reading in Washington State, I was so convinced that Domestic Partnership was dead in the water that I really didn’t put much emotional stock into the Referendum 71 fight. It was a pleasant surprise to see that the state passed it. Maine, however, shocked me. Tax exempt status is a joke for churches involving themselves in politics. I wrote to HRC today and told them that we will no longer support their efforts. I’m retreating into my studio, into my head, into my painting and saying, “F* the American dream. It’s all a lie.” I’m living for the moment. I’m so truly pissed off right now.

  • Robert, NYC

    Brian, I thoroughly agree with you. I no longer donate to any of the organizations, in particular HRC. We need a national leader under one umbrella. We’re too fragmented, not on the same page and we need someone who is politically and intellectually savvy to put the case to the country, someone who is not afraid to take on the opponents. We’ve failed dismally to reach that goal.

    1EqualityUSA, you have a point in regard to the tax exempt privilege enjoyed by religious cults. None of them are supposed to be endorsing any particular candidate but they get around the law by telling their followers to vote for those who support their views. I’ve been advocating for removal of tax exemption for all cults that meddle directly or indirectly in the political process. Why should they be above the law and dictate who is entitled to this or that right? Maybe they need to be taught a lesson, a dose of their own hate medicine coming from our camp for a change starting with the tax-exemption issue.

  • B

    Schteve wrote, “@B Brain is referring not to absence of religion, but the portion of the population for whom religion is not significant. His number comes from a Gallup poll on the matter (http://www.gallup.com/poll/114…..igion.aspx) where Maine is one of only four states where the majority of citizens cite religion as unimportant in their lives.”

    Brian produced no citation at all, but even in a state where “the majority of citizens cite religion as unimportant in their lives,” he blames religion anyway. He must think “religion” has some supernatural power – even where it is marginalized by most of the populace, it still determines the outcome according to Brian.

    What’s wrong with this picture? :-)

  • B

    Brian wrote, “Religion turned out for this vote by a 2:1 margin.
    Exit Poll data is coming.” Note the lack of a citation to any date backing up that claim. He no doubt made it all up.

    I previously posted statistics showing that 16% of Maine’s population has no religion. Given that, you’d expect at least 32% to consist of people who may belong to a church but attend sporadically, mostly on Easter or Christmas, or who attend merely to accompany a spouse, but don’t take it seriously. That gets you to 48% of the population. Then you can add maybe 33% who are religious but who view voting as a civil responsibility as the main reason for showing up. That gets you to 81%. There aren’t enough people left for Brian’s 2:1 margin to be plausible.

  • Not Surprised

    I found the pro-gay ads in Maine to be incredibly saccharine.

    Yeah? Well, the same “saccharine” advertising produced a victory for civil unions out here in Washington State. At the moment, the count is 51%-49% in our favor, but King County (which includes Seattle) is only 23% counted as I write on Wednesday morning, so when it’s all said and done we’ll probably have the same 53-47% result as in Maine but the other way around.

    Washington State is very much like Maine socially, but not quite as poor. We have two Democratic senators and a Democratic governor at the moment, but it’s been otherwise here in the relatively recent past.

    Maybe it is time for gay people to realize that the M-word is a loser, and that we ought to be pushing for civil unions.

  • Robert, NYC

    B, but you have to agree that religion is at the root of all the same-sex marriage negativity and homophobia in general if you look at the history of religious cults that were primarily responsible for institutionalizing it, where else could it have come from? They’re constantly on the rampage making outlandish statements that same-sex marriage is not god’s way, not natural and not about procreation. Whether they’re married straights or not, that kind of rhetoric promotes cynicism and hate and fuels much of the homophobia out there, its worked for them for millenia. Its at the root of the history of homophobia, organized cult religions that is which they all are if you look closer.

  • 1EqualityUSA

    PopSnap #46(Under “Who’s to blame for Maine’s Marriage Failure” on Queerty—- You hit the nail on the Head, PopSnap. Robert from NYC needs to read #46 post. This is the answer. The gay community needs to fall under one umbrella, with a mouthpiece who can stand up to Washington and cut through the legal brush.
    # 46:
    “Wrong, wrong, you are ALLL WRONG.
    *We* could NOT HAVE DONE ANY BETTER. The No on 1 campaign was IMMACULATE, by far one of the best, well-funded, well-worked, well-known, well-supported, and all-around great campaigns in the history of the gay rights movement.
    We did nothing wrong, and overall this is very bittersweet. How many people came out nationwide to support us? If we’d held this vote ten years ago, how many do you think would have voted against us? 81% of young people voted NO on 1. The older generations are dying.
    But, we MUST NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY REFERNDUMS. None! If NH is next, there should not even be a No campaign for that state. Because we shouldn’t have to campaign for our civil rights. No other minority right was put up for the votes of a majority, and we cannot let them think we will play their little game and even bother to fight them. We’ll loose every time until about 2015.
    the only way to win this?
    Give your money to them, if you want to donate to someone. THEY will win this for us, not voting No on so-and-so.”

    Olson and Boise, we ought to hang their portraits up in our homes when they, at the federal level, bring and end to this equality fight once and for all. It’s the only way. Democratic Presidents can appoint fair minded Supreme Court Justices, but gays need to bug the sh*t out of Washington and support the Equal Rights Foundation, Olson and Boise, and let the Constitution work for us. We’ve got a good case here!
    Today was one of the lowest days I’ve had in this fight for gay rights.


    Queerty, shine some light on this, it’s a rallying point.

  • B

    Robert, NYC wrote, “B, but you have to agree that religion is at the root of all the same-sex marriage negativity and homophobia in general if you look at the history of religious cults that were primarily responsible for institutionalizing it, where else could it have come from?”

    Well, you can start with the Roman’s attitude towards it, which during the republic was that it was OK to be a top, but not so good to be a bottom, unless the bottom was a slave or had a very low social status relative to the top. Naturally, this would have been pretty unpopular among the slaves. As the empire degraded, attitudes about sex in general became more uptight – everyone needed something to blame – and this was well before the Christians had any control. The Christians, meanwhile, found it easiest to recruit from those on the bottom of the social structure, and strong beliefs against homosexuality would probably have been attractive to people like straight slaves forced to be bottoms by their owners. Then all it takes is a positive feedback loop and you are off and running.

  • Schteve

    @No Wonder “The thing to do is to privatize marriage. Take the government out of it. Make partnerships all be civil unions in the eyes of the government, and have marriage be strictly a religious matter. I remember making this argument at a gay meeting six years ago and being hissed at. Eventually people will come around to that view.”

    Until every state and country on earth recognizes civil unions that are not by name marriage, good luck getting anyone agree to that since it merely confines them to a few select places where such unions exist.

    @terrwill “What we need to do is mimic the Washington situation across the country. To be perfectley honest I don’t give two shits about the term “marriage”. I want the exact same rights and benefits that straight couples are entitled to and enjoy.”

    The problem with that is that other states and the federal government won’t necessarily grant you the same rights unless you have “marriage”. Or is all you care about the rights you get in the state you live in?

  • Not Surprised

    Until every state and country on earth recognizes civil unions that are not by name marriage, good luck getting anyone agree to that since it merely confines them to a few select places where such unions exist.

    The same applies to gay marriages. They are not generally recognized outside of the borders of the state that granted them. Fact is that marriage is a loser for gay people. We’ve lost 31 of 31 votes. We’ve won a few votes on civil unions, though.

  • Ozymandias

    I’m tired of it. Tired, tired, tired. All the Bullshit from the Fundies leading up to the vote, and now all the smiles and people saying ‘Oh we aren’t anti-gay, we just want to protect traditional marriage!’ Fuck that!

    Civil Unions as a viable option? Bah, I saw one of those Yes on 1 commercials even saying “Oh we want to be tolerant, see – here are civil unions for the Gays! See? We’re not bigots!’ Yeah… Washington State is a great example of how accepting they are of Civil Unions, right? Yes it passed (and good for them!) but why is there a voice in the back of my head saying ‘The Fundies will come after us, whether it’s marriage or Civil Unions, or Domestic Partnerships, or whatever 2nd-class separate-and-unequal bullshit we wanna call it now?’

    At this point I’m not much better emotionally than I was last night – today found myself feeling incredibly resentful toward my straight friends… it didn’t matter that they supported Marriage Equality; all that mattered was they COULD get married, and I COULDN’T get married, and there were nearly 250k people in Maine who were just fine with that. Hell, I live in Oklahoma, Land of Sally Kern and Gays-can-fix-my-hair-but-not-have-rights BS, but Maine’s pain is my own right now.

    I’ll be happy for the victories we DID get soon enough… and I’ll be very thankful for the 200k people in Maine who DO support me and my wish to marry soon enough… right now I just have this awful dread in the pit of my stomach about what’s coming.

    Love to all and smoochies! *staggers off to bed*

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