Some 51 percent of Californians responding to a Field Poll indicated they supported same-sex marriage, but as soon as you start digging deeper into the data you realize we’re not yet in a world of rainbows and cartwheels.
“It’s been known for some time that Asian Americans are the ethnic group most opposed to gay marriage in California, but the new poll marks the first time that subsets of Asians have been singled out and asked what they think about it,” relays Peter Jamison. “The results: Koreans as a group are the most anti-gay marriage. And it isn’t even close. The new Field Poll reveals that Korean Americans disapprove of same-sex marriage by a margin of 70 to 25 percent. They were followed in their dislike of same-sex couples by Vietnamese Americans (64 percent disapproval) and Chinese Americans (54 percent disapprove.) African Americans disapprove of gay marriage by a margin of 49 to 38 percent, the poll finds, while Latinos support same-sex marriage by a margin of 50 to 41. About 53 percent of whites support same-sex marriage, with 39 percent opposed.”
Oh good, because I was wondering which ethnic group everyone would blame when 2012’s ballot measure to repeal Prop 8 fails!
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
What a bunch of hyprocritical bastards. One always hears of these minority groups complaining about discrimination and how it negativly affects their communities and families. And “how everyone should be treated as equals”. And it wasn’t too long ago that African Americans faced laws dictating whom they could and could not marry in this country……….
Yet they have zero problems casting hate and prejudice against the Gay community……………
Brandon
Damn… Too bad not every Korean is as awesome as Margaret Cho.
jason
Not only are Asians homophobic, Asian men treat their women like dirt. Asian women are also extremely submissive in their demeanor. I have never ever met an Asian feminist, for instance. They’re too busy chopping up the vegetables for their husbands’ dinner.
jason
Maybe we should start discriminating against blacks and Asians. Let’s see how they like it.
Hilarious
And once again white people are absolved because white people didn’t turn out in droves voting against gay marriage rights.
White persons, percent definition and source info White persons, percent, 2008 (a) 76.6%
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
So white people make up 76.6 of the California population. If white people are SO loving and accepting of gay marriage rights then why don’t we have them again?
I imagine if 76.6% of the California voters decide to vote one way it doesn’t matter what the other 23.4% thinks about anything.
All this number skewing doesn’t surprise me, what does surprise me is that people are actually dumb enough to fall for it knowing that almost every state in the nation is majority white.
Hilarious
Scratch that, just checked. Literally every state in the nation is majority white.
Time to stop finger pointing at random “minorities” and see the truth.
Fitz
You have to give the lords and ladies credit where it is due. they did an awesome job of dividing up the peasants. The blacks don’t like the gays don’t like the Jews don’t like the Asians don’t like the disabled don’t like the poor don’t like the addicts don’t like the children.
We have to decide if we are going to respond with “Well then fuck the Black community!” or if we are going to try to find some creative way of reconnecting. We are a smart, creative, fun and loving bunch, and many of us have a strong spiritual side. I bet we can find ways to blow this out of the water.
Bryan Harris
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: It wasn’t too long ago under slavery that black people could not marry.So they’re the last people to dictate who should not marry.
Hilarious
@Bryan Harris: Boo, no black people living today were slaves, and any time slavery or things like reparations are brought up white people say “That was a long time ago, let it go!”.
So which is it, baby, let it go or keep holding on?
I honestly hate all of you for forcing me to defend the people who vote against my rights, but as long as you keep making it all about race, while ignoring white people who make up the majority of the nation, I’m going to throw up the defense.
Ironically you have no problem with white people dictating to you that you should not marry. As long as it’s not blacks right? Very telling.
You should be mad like hell that ANYONE is dictating to you who should not marry, but nope according to your blurb only black homophobes piss you off. Wow.
Katt
The black and hispanic voting block came out in droves to support Obama which lost Prop 8 for us, plain and simple. Folks were warned not to put it on that ballot but ignored the potential issue that came to fruition.Religious lemmings will always follow their leader – specifcally true for religious minorities, however, next election may be different unless things continue to slide for Obama which would in turn, would bring them out again to give him a second term.
samthor
I’d like to know WHY.
are the reasons the minorities oppose gay marriage the same or different than white majority opposition?
Is it religion?
Is it a cultural thing?
Or is it some notion that there are only so many rights to go around… a finite limit to freedom. that somehow if we get a right they lose one?
only then will we know how best to address the issue and reach out to these communities.
as always education is the key.
Kevin
@Hilarious: Hawai’i isn’t. There might be others.
concernedcitizen
@Fitz: it obvious you spent VERY LITTLE TIME reading the article it clearly indicates that african americans are not the sole problem percentage-wise. Korean americans, vietnamese americans, and chinese americans ALL hate higher disapproval rates than african americans so quit singling african americans out.
Further, California is one of the states in the US with the lowest number of african americans in general, something like a total of 5%. Quit being a bigot! Your retard views aren’t supported by the facts.
wannabegay2
this is just a survey. how about we take the results of the november vote for prop 8? 51% of asian voted against prop 8, making them the only minority group that supported gay marriage (latino’s had 53% for prop 8, african americans had 70% for prop 8)… yes, demonize asians, but keep in mind the REAL results. yes, i know koreans are crazy christians, yes i know they truly believe in their faith, but lets check some numbers before!
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=CAI01p1
ps: im white
Cam
The one issue is, remember, gays haven’t been as visible in those communities. I have seen a generational change in my Asian friends families. I have danced with a guy at my good friends marriage and her cousin (Who was dancing with her white boyfriend) said “Hey! Stop stealing my thunder, now we’re not the most controversial couple out on the floor.” She was joking of course and all the relatives were very nice. And actually I heard later that the family discussed how actually meeting a gay couple had altered some of their perceptions. They’ll get there. It just takes some time.
Nom
the argument that always gets me is “don’t compare your rights to mine, you weren’t ever a slave!”
so, ok, let’s not compare. let’s just state the facts. today, in 2010, there are zero laws in the U.S. that explicitly discriminate against any group on the basis of race. there are plenty of laws and policies that explicitly, in black and white (no pun intended), discriminate against people for being LGB or T.
here’s the way I think of it.. you don’t have to like us and you don’t have to hang out with us, but if you are going to actively try to block our rights, then you have no grounds to complain when we come after you. if any community (whether that community is rich, white and Mormon, or poor and black) chooses to block the road to full equality, then they bear their own responsibility for it. and that’s actually a sign of respect on my part — it says that I believe that you, as a group, are capable of determining your own political priorities and acting upon them. no one else can do that for you. we need to get over the idea that minorities can do no wrong — we’re all humans and we can all do better.
concernedcitizen
According to US Census data population estimates for african americans is 6.7% for the state of California’s.
see: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
White persons in california are 76.6, while asian americans make up 12.5 so this means clearly the voting block with the most sway is white persons. Not only that but even if every single african american and asian american were to have voted yes (if voter percentages analogous to population) and they still wouldn’t have been able to offset white voters had they voted no.
The point is homophobia isn’t exclusive to any one ethnic group it runs rampant within our society! The mormon community (largely and overwhelmingly white came out in droves to support prop 8 and kill marriage equality.
Mike L.
Well I’m happy latinos support more than oppose same-sex marriage 🙂
Yes latinos tend to be conservative on some issues, and most are catholic, but you forget the majority aren’t practicing catholics more of culturaly catholic than practicing. Catholics I think support abortion rights more than evangelicas ever would and that’s because most don’t practice or see the human injustice in oppoising some things. At least that’s been my experience with my family and most catholics I’ve met, xtians not so much XD
tjr101
Here we go again with the “blame the minority” card Queerty and many in the gay community enjoy playing when in fact 76 percent of California is white. Even if every black voter had the option of voting twice in California it still wouldn’t come close to the number of whites who voted for prop 8. It’s not the minority community preventing you from getting married. It’s not the minority community that got prop 8 on the ballot. The campaign against prop 8 was pathetic and did no outreach to minority communities, of course people will not support you if you completely ignore them and they are bombarded by religious propaganda on a daily basis. What
concernedcitizen
Also another think to keep in mind when interpreting data especially when it involves statistics that any first year statistician would be able to spot and tell you is that there is less variation when the population size is smaller than when it is a larger population size.
So what does that mean in practice? It means you would expect larger variance in responses between caucasian americans (not because their less homophobic, but simply because there are more than them) and you would expect less variance when it come to black voters, latino voters or chinese voters.
think of it this way if you were to poll only 5 people and 3 supported prop 8 and 2 opposed you could say 60% of these voters supported prop 8. Now let’s say you poll a much larger group and 21 support prop 8 and 12 oppose it. The percentages are the same which group would be more homophobic? It’s a trick of numbers that happens! Unless the samples between african americans, asian americans and white and latino voters were exactly the same you cannot make inferences about which group is most homophobic ect. It shows a very naive understanding of statistical analysis
Mike in Asheville
Aren’t there just as many hypocritical gays/lesbians actively and passively propagating racial bigotry as there are hypocritical members of racial minorities?
Reading posts on Queerty on racial related issues, there all always many racist comments posted. As a LGBT community, we do not take actions supporting the rights of racial minorities. We complain that the NAACP hardly makes LGBT issues part of their agenda; yet does HRC/Gay Inc. join the voice of the NAACP when the issue is racial profiling? equal opportunity? equal pay? biased law enforcement? drug laws? etc.?
Even among ourselves, there are regular misogynist and transphobic comments.
Civil rights are only as strong as they apply to the weakest. If the rights of any minority are sustained, then the rights of all are limited.
*******************
The very encouraging news from this survey is that the largest minority group, Hispanics, support gay marriage rights, that African Americans are not the lump-sided group against us, and that, as a whole, Asian Americans account for about 12.5% of Californians.
The way to win public acceptance is turning a greater number of white Californians into supporters. With non-Hispanic whites representing 42% of the electorate, getting the white vote a few points erases the effects of Korean Americans and other Asian Americans anti-gay views.
Fitz
@concernedcitizen: WTF are you talking about? Where do you see racism in my post? I totally agree with your statement.. we (I am in CA) didn’t loose Prop 8 on the black vote. In fact, in raw #s, it was the OLD vote that was the issue… but my comment was about connecting, not blaming.
tjr101
As I was saying, 😀
When is Queerty going to show the racial composition of the votes in Maine?
concernedcitizen
@Fitz: “we have to decide if we are going to respond with fuck the black community” that doesn’t sound offensive maybe to you but its pretty inflammatory whether you were just using it as a portrayal or not
Nom
TJR 101 wrote: “Here we go again with the “blame the minority” card… The campaign against prop 8 was pathetic and did no outreach to minority communities, of course people will not support you if you completely ignore them and they are bombarded by religious propaganda on a daily basis.”
I think this sort of sentiment ignores the agency of minority communities to make their own decisions. It sounds like you’re saying that, since a bunch of white boys didn’t come knocking on minorities’ doors, asking nicely for equality, then we shouldn’t be surprised that those minorities voted against same-sex rights, which apply to all races? Are black, asian and latino people incapable of thinking for themselves about what is right and wrong? Of course not! Do we all need to support black, asian and latino LGBT people in having the courage to come out and speak up within their own communities? Absolutely!
I mean seriously, it’s like you think that the best way to combat homophobia in the black community is to send a bunch of white kids with smiley faces and clipboards out on the sidewalk in front of a housing project.
And God forgive me for offering the following comparison, but the civil rights movement derived the vast majority of its strength from its internal solidarity. Their success didn’t come from “reaching out” to white folks, but from standing strong as a community. They didn’t ask white people to stop hating — they showed them what their hate looked like through courageous acts of nonviolence. The overwhelming righteousness of their example led to increasing support from white allies as time went on. I think we, as LGBT people, ought to follow a similar model. We have to stand together, as both LGBT whites and LGBT people of color, in coming out to our communities, advocating for equality, and calling out those who oppose us.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
Considering how closeted so many minorities–blacks, Latinos, and Asians–are, I’m not surpised they oppose marriage equality. Show me an anti-marriage male minority, and I’ll see a probable closet queen who cruises for men on the sly.
And let’s not discount racism. Too many minorites see homosexualty as a white thing. By opposing anything queer, they probably feel that they are oppsoing white queers, because no black, or Asian would EVER be gay.
Hilarious
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: 76.6% of the population of California is white.
“Lets not discount racism.” Check your post.
Bareback Cuntessa
The numbers in this Field poll look bizarre to me until I overlay the ethnic/racial breakdown with this mitigating factor:
“Oppressive ancestral homeland culture combined with insane embrace of evangelical Christian cults upon arrival to US”
This explains a huge number of first- and second-generation Asian-Americans and a growing number of Latinos; the fundamentalist churches grab these new arrivals as soon as they set down their luggage and indoctrinate them into their evil cults. It takes a couple of generations to abandon that madness.
Age and religious fervor are the most powerful determinants of support of Prop H8– not ethnicity. Those stupid old fucks that hobble, waddle or ride their Medicare-provided scooters to the polls to deny us our rights are a huge part of the problem, but they’re dying off, thankfully. Religious fervor is a dying trend worldwide– except in the US, where ignorance is not only encouraged, it’s CREATED by inadequate education, an irresponsible mass media, and the unspeakable evil of the US Neofascist Right Wing.
Progressives of all stripes have to rise up and defeat the Religious Reich in the US by exposing its lies and greed and hatred. NOTHING GOOD has ever come to societies that blindly embrace state-sanctioned religiosity (and that includes cults of personality such as Stalinist Russia, Hitler’s Germany, Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, etc., etc., ad nauseum). We have to show people that we can live moral, ethical lives WITHOUT religion– by pointing out that there’s nothing moral or ethical about religion as practiced by humanity.
fast lane
Hey Queerty– since you brought it upon yourselves to bring up the subject of race, why exactly are ALL your fluff posts about shirtless men always about white men only?
Apparently, in Queerty’s eyes, non-caucausians simply don’t qualify as “Morning Goods.” Heck, you guys make Abercrombie look like Bennaton in comparison!
Chitown Kev
@wannabegay2:
Sweetie, that link was an exit poll, not actual election returns from the votes that were actually cast.
In other words, that was “just a survey” as well, ditz.
Fitz
@concernedcitizen: In case it wasn’t clear, I was presenting that as a pathetic option— voting more for the choice to reach out.
San Francisco Treat
I actually did quite a bit of research into “blame” for prop8 for a class on Election Law. The question posed was “Were proponents on Prop 8 really just religious zealots?”
I assumed my research (my analysis was based on contributions to the campaign on both sides) would turn up some conflicting evidence, but what I found was that the answer to the question was “Yes.”
If we’re going to defeat homophobia we have to do our homework – race is not nearly as statistically significant a factor in voting for homophobic policies as is religion and more specifically church attendance.
I’m not saying we have the capacity or even the moral authority to shift the sincerely held religious tenets of others – but I am saying the most effective communication (the biggest room for improvement) will target communities of faith.
Full disclosure: I am a mostly white, 26y/o atheist (or atheist equivalent).
gilber
many people in this country have the idea or stereotype that latinos or latin american people are staunchly religious,this is a bit wrong.in fact i find Americans to be more religious than latinos,sometimes with even some violence and hatred toward other ethnic beliefs,fundamentalism is an inherently American product being aggressively shipped abroad ,usually by American missionaries.when latinos refer to themselves as catholics,please do not think they are talking about the Vatican sort of Catholicism,it is usually a mixture of native beliefs usually having some elements of shamanism.the idea that blacks are homophobic is not necessarily true either.some african religions practiced by Caribbeans and Brazilians are extremely accepting of gay and trans people,to the point that many gay people can actually make a living out of them.in countries such as cuba,gay bashing is not common at all,even though they are prejudices cubans never associate gays with pedophilia or bestiality because they have never been exposed to that sort of propaganda,machismo is very strong,however.many blacks and gay latinos feel safer living in miami than let’s say alabama or utah.some cases of gays killed in puerto rico,usually involves transsexuals not having a clear criminal record.even latin “thugs” don’t seem to have virulent anti-gay feelings,i’ve never heard a homophobic reggeaton or salsa song in my life.
Nom
Fast Lane blurted: “why exactly are ALL your fluff posts about shirtless men always about white men only?
Apparently, in Queerty’s eyes, non-caucausians simply don’t qualify as “Morning Goods.”
I know, right, like this typical whitebread model:
http://www.queerty.com/photos-if-this-walden-could-talk-20100430/
B
No. 30 · Chitown Kev wrote, “@wannabegay2: Sweetie, that link was an exit poll, not actual election returns from the votes that were actually cast. In other words, that was “just a survey” as well, ditz.”
Go to http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf for an accurate post-election analysis. The 70% figure in the exit poll for the Black pro-Prop-8 vote was an overestimate – the real number is more like 58%, with most of the excess (beyond the average for all voters) being due to frequent attendance of religious services. One interesting fact is that, regardless of racial or ethnic background, the precincts most in favor of Proposition Eight were the least racially diverse ones. So, if you used predominantly Black precincts as a “convenience sample”, you’d end up with a biased number.
The 8 percent excess Black vote accounts for just under 30% of the excess vote (2 percent) that allowed Proposition Eight to pass. Since religious practices seem to be a significant factor, that suggests how we might do better next time. My guess is that the “Yes on Eight” side successfully targeted ministers in predominantly Black churches and convinced them that they would be forced to perform same-sex weddings if Proposition Eight did not pass. That was a lie, of course, but probably the preachers didn’t fact-check the claim and our side did not do enough to counter it. As a result, the “Yes on Eight” side managed to recruit people whom religious Blacks would listen to every Sunday morning, basically getting a significant amount of free advertising for their side.
One individual is resorting to name calling when these facts are pointed out, but if we ignore them, it will be harder to win if it comes up for a vote again. Making sure ministers/preachers of predominantly Black churches get the facts is important – if we can get them on our side, or at least get them to not oppose us, we’ll gain a useful advantage. It’ll be impossible to get much help from Catholic priests – there was one who tried and the hierarchy fired him, probably leaving him without any retirement benefits so supporting us carried a very high personal price for him. Given that, the best you can realistically hope for is for a Catholic priest to say nothing or only support Prop 8 halfheartedly.
Bill Perdue
The field polls showed us winning until Obama trumpeted his anti-SSM message “gawd’s in the mix” repeatedly and No on 8 let it pass without comment. Yes on 8 repeated it, spending millions on a last minute blitz featuring Obama’s “gwad’s in the mix”, The polls reversed and we lost. That was the pattern the last two times same sex marriage came up for a vote in California. Democratic Party front groups like EQCA and No on 8 ignored minority communities and ran Eurocentric campaigns.
They abandoned the field to the bigoted cults in minority communities and in a state where ‘minorities’ are the majority and doomed us to failure. As I pointed out on another blog before the 2008 debacle “The pro 8 ads will likely have a minor impact compared to the constant refrain of bigoted statements about same sex marriage by Palin, Obama, Biden and McCain as they bad mouth same sex marriage and treat us as second class citizens. They give people on the fence the go-ahead to vote their bigotry.
The future of same sex marriage rights in California hangs by a thread because of the failure to mount an all out effort to take the battle into the Black, Latino, Asian and immigrant communities. This situation has to be remedied yesterday.
To make things worse we’re losing ground financially. While Obama and Biden do the bigot two-step with McCain and Palin opposing same sex marriage their campaign has been raiding our financial base in California, raising millions of dollars that’ll be wasted because they’re opponents of our agenda. Bill Perdue | October 9, 2008 4:54 PM
If anti-democratic Democrat Party front groups like EQCA are allowed to run the show again we could still lose no matter what the polls say. Keep in mind that what people tell pollster doesn’t always reflect their real views. If you ask most people if they’re bigots, they’ll deny it. What they do in the voting booth is another matter.
Bill Perdue
‘B’ is cooking the statistics to excite racist animosity. Instead of looking at the overall effect of the small African American vote as part of to the total vote for Prop 8, which was 52.1% of the electorate, he wants to judge it as part of 2% of the electorate, wildly overstating its importance to promote his agenda.
We did not lose same sex marriage because of the African American community. We lost overall because of votes by bigots in all communities as demonstrated by a summary from the National Gay and Kesbian Task force of the votes.
“As shown in Table 1, conservatives and Republicans were the most likely to support Proposition 8: 82% of conservatives and 81% of Republicans voted in favor of the measure. People who attended religious services weekly (70%) and those over age 65
(67%) also approved Proposition 8 by substantial majorities. Men were slightly more likely to support Proposition 8 (by 54%) than women (49%). Majorities of those under age 65 opposed Proposition 8. African American and Latino voters supported
Proposition 8 to a greater degree, 58% and 59% respectively, than did whites and Asians. According to this survey, blacks’ support for the ballot measure was much lower than reported by Election Day exit polls. “ http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf
B
In No. 37 · Bill Perdue lied some more, repeating his false accusations of racism. Nobody but a complete and utter idiot would seriously call what I said an attempt “to excite racist animosity.” Furthermore, no statistics were “cooked”.
What I said in http://www.queerty.com/majority-of-californians-might-support-gay-marriage-but-ethnic-minorities-still-dont-20100722/#comment-326395 was, “The 70% figure in the exit poll for the Black pro-Prop-8 vote was an overestimate – the real number is more like 58%, with most of the excess (beyond the average for all voters) being due to frequent attendance of religious services. One interesting fact is that, regardless of racial or ethnic background, the precincts most in favor of Proposition Eight were the least racially diverse ones. So, if you used predominantly Black precincts as a “convenience sample”, you’d end up with a biased number.”
I also said, “The 8 percent excess Black vote accounts for just under 30% of the excess vote (2 percent) that allowed Proposition Eight to pass. Since religious practices seem to be a significant factor, that suggests how we might do better next time.”
Bill Perdue then dissembles by saying (to pretend I had said something different), “We did not lose same sex marriage because of the African American community.” when what I had said is that the “No on Eight” side had done an inadequate job of getting African American votes because we let a bogus claim about the impact of same-sex marriages on religious organizations go unchallenged. We let the “Yes on Eight” side unduly influence the preachers, and the preachers then spread an unfavorable message to those who listen to them. I.e., we failed in part because we allowed the other side to run an effective viral marketing campaign.
Given his behavior, it should be obvious to everyone what Bill Perdue is – a baldfaced liar.
wannabegay2
@Chitown Kev, @B: i really didnt try to attack the african american community or any other community…yes, the exit polls are surveys, but they are way more accurate as they have a huge sample and measure the actual vote (we assume honesty), not the voters intention (as it is with the survey analyzed by queerty). my point was that this attack towards asian-americans is completely unfair, as they were the only minority group that voted FOR gay marriage (and against prop 8). plus, i’m upset with all the bigots on this website that started telling us how the asian (traditional) community is. well, the data says something else.
i am a sociologist, so i try to find reasons in people’s actions, so im not blaming the african american community for what happened. they were told lies and thats unfair.
B
No. 36 · Bill Perdue posted more rubbish by claiming, “The field polls showed us winning until Obama trumpeted his anti-SSM message ‘gawd’s in the mix’ repeatedly and No on 8 let it pass without comment.”
The reality: the “No on Eight” side in late September and early October knew they had a funding problem and were desperately trying to get the cash they needed to respond to the “Yes on Eight” campaign. They had focal-group studies that showed that a lot of the support for defeating Prop 8 was actually fairly weak and that people could be easily influenced by the arguments the “Yes on Eight” side was likely to use. People didn’t respond with more money until the polls showed there was a real chance that our side would lose and at that point it was too late. Source: comments by “No on Eight” organizers during a fund-raiser I attended.
Obama had, on national TV, called Proposition Eight “divisive”. The “No on Eight” side did not use that as they should have, but the lack of funding was part of the reason. The “No on Eight” side probably underestimated the importance of outreach to preachers working at predominantly Black churches – African Americans attend church services more frequently than the national average so they get relatively more exposure to what the preachers are saying, and many preachers thought they would be forced to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies if Proposition Eight did not pass (the “Yes on Eight” side used that bogus claim as one of its “talking points”).
Bill Perdue will, if his past behavior is any guide, try to dissuade people from believing the truth, whether because he is a true idiot or just a slimy character with a grudge. Regardless of the reason, he is working as hard as he can to suppress information that is critical to winning in an effort to repeal Proposition Eight. With “friends” like that, who needs enemies?
L.
Sometimes I wonder whether “B” and “Bill” aren’t one and the same person, with a spectacularly strong case of split-personality disorder whose avatars really really don’t like each other.
Bill Perdue
@L.:don’t be silly. And please, I’m begging you, if you’re a psychiatrist please resign immediately.
‘B’ cooks the statistics and then tries to associate them the NGLFT report, but they never used his example to ‘prove, as ‘B’ does that “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.” In fact they did spoke out against that kind of racist garbage.
‘B’ comparison might have some validity if he compared the African American vote to the whole 52.1% of the yes on bigotry vote but not comparing it to 2% of the vote . That, as he intends, wildly exaggerates that vote all out of proportion.
If that is not intended to promote the racists who claim that same sex marriage was defeated by African Americans then what is its purpose. It’s not to prevent the same thing happening all over again because it just encourages the Eurocentrism that cost us the elections in 2000 and 2008.
As for all the personal attacks, I’ll just keep in mind that what works in a divorce court doesn’t work with honest people and leave it at that.
L.
@Bill Perdue: Actually, I *was* being silly. I thought it was obvious but obviously I failed.
Bill Perdue
@L.: Thank Odin, you’re not actually misdiagnosing people.
Chitown Kev
@wannabegay2:
Yeah, and I think that post-election polls showed that about 10% of voters voted wrongly because of the deceptiveness of the question and…I wanna say ~14% of those who voted didn’t vote one way or the other of Prop 8.
Those two stats alone are pretty big, if nor decisive factors.
B
In No. 42 · Bill Perdue once again showed that he is an idiot:
he simply doesn’t like the fact that when a measure passes by 52% (a 2% margin) and an ethnic group making up 7% of the population votes 58% in favor of the measure (an 8% margin), then that group’s 8% margin, scaled by its relative size, accounts for 28% of the 2% margin the measure passed by.
It’s simple arithmetic and calling that “cooking statistics” as Bill Perdue does is a bald-faced lie. You know what 28% of 2% is? It’s 0.56%.
As was explained to Perdue (he is too dense to understand), you have the most cost effective campaign when the marginal cost per vote for each ethnic group is the same (because the cost is convex). It’s important – if you don’t use your resources efficiently, you increase the risk of losing.
B
No. 39 · wannabegay2 wrote, “i am a sociologist, so i try to find reasons in people’s actions, so im not blaming the african american community for what happened. they were told lies and thats unfair.”
The URL I provided http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf clearly stated that the Asian vote was against Proposition Eight, and that the African American vote in favor was due primarily to religious affiliation, not race or ethnicity. They used a multivariate analysis to determine which factors were the most important.
My guess as to the reason is in http://www.queerty.com/majority-of-californians-might-support-gay-marriage-but-ethnic-minorities-still-dont-20100722/comment-page-1/#comment-326395 (the “Yes on Eight” side tricked the preachers in Black churches into pushing Proposition Eight, and the “free advertising” that generated made a difference – an effective tactic given the relatively high level of church attendance among Blacks). If my guess is correct, that suggests what to do next time – spend some time talking with these preachers to make sure they know the facts.
Mysanthropic Destiny
Most minority groups are religious or at least lackadaisically hold onto some of their culture’s religious anti-gay perspective. I mean, I’m Asian-American and I’m pretty pro-gay. But I also suck at math, so maybe I’m not really Asian.
B
No. 42 · Bill Perdue wrote, “If that is not intended to promote the racists who claim that same sex marriage was defeated by African Americans then what is its purpose.”
Perdue, as I explained to you quite a number of times, the reason the marginal vote is important is that you use your resources (the money you have for the campaign) most effectively when the marginal cost of getting an additional vote is the same for each ethnic/racial group.
Some of us are concerned with one thing only – getting Prop 8 repealed – so you want to use the statistical data you have to make the best possible decisions on how to allocate resources.
Bill Perdue
@B: @B: @B: Yada, Yada, Yada.
Give it a rest ‘B’. People can tell what’s what and who’s who without your lawyering them to death.
bbg372
To what degree ethnic minorities are responsible for the passage of Proposition 8 is irrelevant; not a single member of an oppressed minority should have voted in favor of ballot initiative to restrict the rights of another oppressed minority—not one.
Dan
Per the statistics that Bill Perdue cited, conservatives and Republicans were far more likely to support Prop 8 than blacks and Hispanics. So why is so much blame focused on ethnic minorities? Because only they have a responsibility to support our rights? That doesn’t make sense to me. White people have the same civic responsibilities as everyone else. I do think, though, that minorities can be reached more effectively than most conservatives and Republicans can. In that sense, focusing some of our efforts on minorities can be productive.
gguy
Does anyone else see the irony of Queerty saying it’s stupid for Lady Gaga to boycott performing in Arizona due to SB1070 and then reporting that some ethnic minorities don’t favor gay causes. Latin’s in California are most likely it seems to favor gay marriage, but I wonder what impact the indifference to gays about the racist Arizona law will have, since it will look like the gays are more concerned about dancing the night away than supporting the causes of other minority groups.
PopSnap
It just barely passed in 2008. I’d say we have pretty good chances with 2012, especially since it passed due to a very unique set of circumstances and also nothing but sheer bad luck.
LOTS of gays in California as well as gay-allies. If they could be rallied the proper way, a gay marriage proposition would likely pass, especially since actually getting out to vote FOR gay marriage is much more “positive” than getting out to vote NO on an anti-gay marriage initiative.
People need to stop being so down in the dumps. One of the few things that our country has actually been consistently good on are civil rights and “more freedom for the people” issues. Yeah, I know BUT CANADA & EUROPE, however America has always ultimately come out on the side of civil rights each and every time they have been contested. It’ll happen, and the Perry v. S… Arnold (not even going to bother) case couldn’t have a better chance of going our way.
Aaron in Honolulu
An overwhelming majority of voters ages 18 to 30 are more likely to vote in favor of gay rights while an overwhelming majority of voters 65 and older are strongly opposed.
Forget race! BLAME OLD PEOPLE!!!!!! Once these older generations die off. We are home free.
The racism on this page is disgusting. It’s proof that our community is no better than the communities we commonly blame for our inequality.
B
In No. 50 · Bill Perdue pretends that mathematics is “lawyering” (I guess that is the closest he’ll get to admitting how wrong he is.)
Bill Perdue
@Hilarious:
US Department of Health and Human Services
The Changing Ethnic and Racial Composition of California
The graph illustrates the ethnic and racial composition of California in three years: 1990, 2000, and 2040.
Percentage of White is decreasing: 1990 is 60%; 2000 is 50%; 2040 is 32%.
Percentage of Hispanic is increasing: 1990 is 29%; 2000 is 35%; 2040 is 50%.
Percentage of Asian and Pacific Islander is increasing: 1990 is 11%; 2000 is 12%; 2020 is 18%.
Percentage of Black is decreasing: 1990 is 10%; 2000 is 9%; 2040 is 8%.
Percentage of Native American is decreasing: 1990 is 3%; 2000 is 3%; 2040 is 2%.
Source of statistics:
1990 statistics are from California Department of Finance 1990 Census Data. 2000 statistics are from U.S. 2000 Census Data. 2040 statistics are from California Department of Finance Census Projection Data 1990.
or from wiki Racial and ancestral makeup
According to the 2006–2008 American Community Survey, California’s population is:
42.3% White (not including White Hispanic)
36.6% are Hispanic or Latino (of any race)
12.5% Asian
6.7% Black or African American
2.6% Multiracial
1.2% American Indian
According to estimates from 2008, California has the largest minority population in the United States by numbers, making up 57% of the state population. While the population of minorities account for 102 million of 301 million U.S. residents, 20% of the national total live in California.
Bill Perdue
@B: Yada.
B
No. 52 · Dan wrote, “Per the statistics that Bill Perdue cited, conservatives and Republicans were far more likely to support Prop 8 than blacks and Hispanics. So why is so much blame focused on ethnic minorities?”
Perdue didn’t cite any statistics – I did ( http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf ) – and instead he misrepresented them by omission – what he didn’t tell you is that of those attending religious services weekly, 70% voted in favor of Proposition Eight, with the numbers dropping substantially as religious-service attendance becomes less frequent. Also, while 81 percent of Republicans were in favor of Proposition Eight, 82 percent of conservatives were and Republicans tend to also be conservatives.
The statistics are that 48% of Asians voted in favor of Prop 8,
49% of Whites, 58% of Blacks, and 59% of Latino/Hispanics, with above average attendance at religious services being the primary reason for the excess Black and Latino/Hispanic vote. When you look at church attendance, 40 percent of Asians attended services weekly, 42% of Whites, 57% of Blacks, and 47% of Latinos.
Nobody should be blaming minorities. The reason the statistics are important is rather to determine the best strategy for winning if an initiative to repeal Proposition Eight is needed (i.e., if the courts don’t get rid of it first).
It is difficult to change conservatives’ attitudes. Read http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml for an explanation of why (e.g., Dogmatism as a psychological trait is linked to conservatism statistically). With the 8% excess Black vote in favor of Proposition, making up just under 30% of the 2% margin by which Proposition Eight passed, the obvious conclusion is that the “No on Eight” campaign should have spent more time on African Americans, in particular on the leaders of predominantly Black churches – frequent religious service attendance was a significant factor and that occurred more frequently among Blacks than the population as a whole. Given that, we’d have a better chance if Black preachers were sending out weekly messages in our favor during their church services, or at least not sending out messages in favor of the opposition.
Bill Perdue
@Dan: you were right. ‘B’ prefers statistics he invents himself to promote racism and ignores those that contradict him.
That’s why he ignores the real stats from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in post 37 and my own pre-election predictions in post 36 that the Eurocentrism of HRC, No on 8 and EQCA combined with Yes on 8’s last minute media blitz featuring “gawd’s in the mix” led to the outcome we saw, an entirely unexpected and unnecessary loss.
We didn’t have to lose in minority communities. The NAACP, MALDEF and most unions, in which Blacks, Asians, Pacific Islanders and Latino/Latinas are heavily represented in California all joined in opposing Prop 8. The Teachers Union alone raised and donated over $1,000,000.00 of the $43 million raised by No on 8. (Yes on 8 only raised $38 million). We lost because the top heavy overpaid self-appointed ‘leaders’ of No on 8, HRC and EQCA decided not to combat religious bigots in minority communities (see post 57) and abandoned the field to them.
There’s little doubt that activists want to refight the battle for same sex marriage and when they do they should do with the support but not the leadership of losers like the self appointed
‘leaders’ of EQCA and HRC.
Ryanthehulk
To stop yourself from being mad at all Korean Americans just do what I do, think about Dan Choi’s dreamy face, toned body, articulate and intelligent words, cute smile, courageous heart… I’m sorry what was I talking about?
Action Jackson
Despite the fact that Queerty has presented us with an article that clearly indicates Asians, specifically Koreans, are against gay marriage, you racist rodents have turned the entire discussion into one that slams African-Americans. I can’t blame any black person that doesn’t support the gay cause. The hatred runs deep from the gays. Then again, you all can’t help how your were raised. I know, I know. It’s “heritage, not hate.” I must keep that in mind. I’m simply glad my family didn’t endorse that nonsense.
John (CA)
“Too many minorites see homosexualty as a white thing”
Which is a myth largely perpetuated by white people themselves in order to claim leadership of – and control over – the movement as a whole. The concept didn’t come out of nowhere. Certain people wanted to have a monopoly on power within the LGBT community. And until very recently, that’s exactly what they got. One of the consequences of hoarding authority along racial lines, however, was that those on the outside (Africans, Asians, etc.) became more hostile to what they saw as an insidious, culturally alien social movement. Although Dan Choi, Pam Spaulding, and a new generation of activists are slowly changing the power dynamics within the community, it will take a great deal of time for their efforts to come to full fruition. I don’t expect the racists to willingly remove their claw from the levers either, so there will be a lot of the push back.
B
No. 60 · Bill Perdue lied some more by saying (among other things), “That’s why he ignores the real stats from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in post 37 and my own pre-election predictions in post 36 ….”
The truth – the URL Perdue quoted from is the one I provided
(both above and in comments for other articles). Perdue ranted about how it was all nonsense until he finally looked at it and found something to quote out of context. Here it is again:
http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf
The numbers in it show that 28% of the 2 percent margin by which Proposition Eight passed can be attributed to the African American vote (which was in favor of Proposition Eight by an 8% margin with African Americans making up 7% of the population). It’s simple arithmetic: 0.28 = 0.08 * 0.07 / 0.02. The margins are important for technical reasons involving how you allocate resources most efficiently in order to win.
Perdue’s nonsense about Obama is just that – nonsense as Obama stated he opposed Proposition Eight and also stated that he was not personally comfortable with same-sex marriages. I.e., personal beliefs or feeling should not be the basis of what goes into a constitution (and given Obama’s background in law, he certainly understands the subtleties). The “Yes on Eight” side made use of one thing Obama said, quoting out of context, and the “No on Eight” side failed to respond adequately, most likely due to a lack of resources at a critical time.
Bill Perdue
@B: Yada, Yada. Yada – more racist garbage from ‘B’.
‘B’ cooks the statistics and then tries to associate them the NGLFT report, but they never used his example to ‘prove, as ‘B’ does when he says that “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.” In fact they spoke out against that kind of racist garbage.
That’s what’s we’ve come to expect from ‘B’ who defends der papenfueherer. McCain, Rekers, Ashburn and everyting else rotten and rightwing.
B
No. 65 · Bill Perdue lied some more as he continues his cyberstalking ways, trying to be yet another Goebbels as he repeats his lies ad infinitum. It is not “racist” to say that the 8 percent Black marginal vote in favor of Proposition 8 (Blacks make up 7% of California’s population) accounts for 28 percent of the 2 percent by which Proposition 8 passed because 0.28 = (0.08) (0.07) / 0.02. Perdue is lying through his teeth about the statistical study I cited as well: what the study stated was that the 70% Black vote in favor of Proposition 8 that one exit poll reported was an inaccurate number (they did not go into details as to why, but did show that racially homogeneous precincts voted in favor of Proposition Eight at a higher rate than racially diverse precincts, and that frequent attendence at religious services was the primary reason Blacks voted significantly more in favor of Proposition Eight).
Bill Perdue is also lying about the Pope, McCain, Rekers, Ashburn. It is not “defending” the Pope to state that he behaved no differently than a typical German kid of the same age during World War II. It is not “defending” Ashburn to call him ineffective (he was so closeted that he basically kept silent on gay issues and the Republicans were seriously outnumbered in the California state senate, and as a result, both limited the damage he caused to nearly nonexistent in any substantive sense). Pointing out that some of QUEERTY’s (and others’) arguments about whether Rekers used rentboy.com directly were unsubstantiated is similarly not defending him – it is just explaining how the web works technically.
Cyberstalker Bill Perdue, however, is continuing to post his lies and baseless personal attacks for one reason and one reason only: this slimeball has a grudge.
Brown Gay Al
does anyone know Indian American approval numbers? they seem to be everywhere in CA.
Asian numbers seem weird. however Koreans are crazy. you should see in Korea, American Evangelicals seem normal compared to Korean Christians.
Hispanic numbers are a positive surprise for me because it was seen as a American blond disease in my neighborhood during my coming out.
Bill Perdue
When ‘B’ get cornered he starts snalring like something cornered and rabid. Out come the ‘Goebbels’, ‘cyberstalker’, ‘bad, mean man” and other personal attacks. The other people who say things like don’t like me because I support immigrant and imported workers inions or because I oppose the Bush1,Clinton,Bush2 and Obama wars.
‘B’s in perfect company.
Bill Perdue
It is racist to exaggerate the impact of the African American vote by comparing that vote to 2% of the total yes vote instead of the entire yes vote. ‘B’s comments are part of the unending battle of rightwing forces to divide the GLBT movement by misdirecting anger over our defeat.
I wasn’t idly posting statistics in post 37 above, I used two sources about the ethnic and national makeup of California’s population. Comparing the numbers of Euroamericans and others who voted yes on 8 to the number of African American who did so. That puts the lie, the racist lie, to ‘B’s cooked statistical view that “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.”
If you simply do the math, comparing the African American vote to the entire yes vote instead of exaggerating and lying to incite racist divisions then the one important lesson of all this becomes clear. We cannot ‘B’ and other racists to divide us and we cannot allow HRC and EQCA to repeat the blunders of having a Eurocentric approach as they did in both 2000 and 2008. .
Bill Perdue
Make no mistake about it, ‘B’ is a quite the little right wing toady. Here’s just a partial list of Queerty posts where he intervenes to support rightwingers like Rekers, McCain, Ashburn or denies the role of cults like the roman cult in inflaming homohatred and abetting child rape.
Copy the titles and put them in the Queerty search box to get a full feel for his depraved right wing views.
Brazil Archbishop Is Losing Sleep Over Children ‘Spontaneously’ Turning Homosexual where ‘B’ defends the vatican, home of child rapists
CA Sen. Roy Ashburn Votes to Recognize the Pride of His People – where ‘B’ defends Ashburn
Did Olson + Boies Just Secure the Death of Prop 8? See comment 12 – where ‘B’ defends attacks on same sex marriage
George Alan Rekers Was Ready to Give Jo-Vanni Roman 5 Stars on Yelp – where ‘B’ defends Rekers, gets jumped by six out of seven commenter’s, whines about it, call them idiots and then runs away, tail between his legs. Again.
John McCain Again Turns to Homosexual Mark Buse to Lead Re-Election Campaign – where ‘B’ defends McCain and Buse – see comment 3.
Just-A-Joe: The DADT War Isn’t Over – where ‘B’ defends Obama and Congresses fake repeal of DADT
Let John McCain Have His Open DADT Session. So He Can Further Embarrass Himself – where ‘B’ defends says McCain is not homophobic and when he’s challenged runs away. At least he know what the phrase ‘the better part of valor means’.
LIVE: McCain to Gates: You’re ‘Biased’ About Wanting to Change DADT – where ‘B’ defends delays in repealing DADT.
Obama Will Let (Some) Gay Federal Workers Share Gym Memberships –see comment 18 where ‘B’ defends racism.
SHOCK: Defense Sec. Gates to Congress: Do Not, Under Any Circumstances, Repeal DADT – ‘B’ defends delays in repealing DADT, gets ganged up on by many other commenter’s and then whines about it.
The 7 Worst Things About Sen. Roy Ashburn’s DUI Arrest – where ‘B’ defends Ashburn.
There are probably plenty of others but someone with a stronger stomach will have to do the research.
Bill Perdue
It’s very clear why we lost in both 2000 and 2008 and it has little to do with the ‘Bradley Effect’ applied to the question of same sex marriage, a lack of money by No on 8 or the African American vote.
Other forces were in play that had far more importance.
The Field Poll is far and away the most consistently accurate poll about California politics. It showed us winning until the Obama Effect torpedoed our chances. On MTV and at bbf Rick Warrens bigotfest he repeatedly stated his opposition to same sex marriage before huge crowds. He said it was ok to oppose same sex marriage because “gawd’s in the mix”. At the same time he whispered his tactical opposition to Prop 8, describing it as unnecessary because of DOMA in a letter to a breakfast meeting of the Toklas Democrats in SF.
While HRC and EQCA were busy kowtowing to the Democrats and Obama, Yes on 8 and bigot leadership of the roman cult, Warrens southern baptists and the mormons grabbed “gawd’s in the mix” and ran with it using it in a massive last minute blitz peppering radio, television and the print media highlighting one of Obama’s many betrayals of his ‘fierce’ advocacy.
Suddenly the polls reversed, the bigots, mainly of Euroamerican descent were emboldened to vote their bigotry and we lost, unnecessarily and unexpectedly. It wasn’t because of the African American vote or the Bradley Effect or a lack of money by No on 8. (No on 8 raised $43.3 million compared to the $39.9 million raised by Yes on 8.) We lost because of the eurocentric approach of Democrat front groups like HRC and EQCA and it was most of all the Obama’s “gawd’s in the mix” and it’s massive use by the roman, mormon and southern baptist cults that galvanized the bigot vote, just as I said we would in October 2008. (see Post number 36.)
This photo is from Black Agend Report, a highly recommended site at www dot blackagendareport dot com.
[img]http://www.blackagendareport.com/images/stories/118/WarrenAndObama.jpg[/img]
B
No. 69 · Bill Perdue wrote, “It is racist to exaggerate the impact of the African American vote by comparing that vote to 2% of the total yes vote instead of the entire yes vote.”
Perdue is lying about the comparison: the comparison was the 8% margin by which African Americans voted in favor of Proposition Eight, scaled by the 7% of California’s population that is African American, to the 2% margin by which Proposition Eight passed, coupled with a statement that this 8% margin was due almost completely to frequent attendance at religious services.
Knowing that 28% of the 2% by which Proposition Eight passed is due to African Americans who attend church services regularly is a very important piece of information to have: while Hispanic/Latino voters had a similar margin in favor of Proposition Eight, their religious affiliations is different: according to http://www.religionlink.com/tip_070108.php#stats , 75.7% of blacks are protestants, 6.5% are Catholic, 0.2 percent are Jewish, 7% practice other religions, and 10.6% do not identify with any religious group. By contrast, according to http://www.religionlink.com/tip_061204.php#polls 72.6% of Latinos in the U.S. are Catholic. Obviously the way you approach both groups is going to be different because the Catholic clergy gets its marching orders from the Vatican, whereas Protestant clergy has a lot more independence. During the Proposition Eight campaign, one Catholic priest came out against Proposition Eight and he was fired, sending a message to all the others that they better do what they are told. Because of the lack of centralized control, you have a better chance with Protestants – you can convince the clergy one by one.
So, a strategy that might work with most predominantly Black churches is to spend resources convincing the ministers that repealing Proposition Eight is a good idea (you can base that argument on the need to avoid wiring discrimination into constitutions and the fact that existing law already protects churches from having to perform marriage ceremonies that go against their beliefs). That won’t work with the Catholic churches because any priest you convince who actually goes along with what you want will be out the door before he gets to say much.
So there is a simple question for Bill Perdue – does he want to keep his head in the sand or does he want us to consider strategies that might actually help us win? We lost by 2% and 28% of that 2% might up for grabs by a simple, relatively low cost, strategy: get a dialog going with ministers leading predominantly Black churches and do the best you can to get them on your side – if they preach against you every Sunday morning, that undercuts what you spend on very expensive TV ads, so lets mitigate that to the extend possible.
B
In No 72, cyberstalker Bill Perdue is continuing the nonsense he’s been posting on other threads as part of his character assassination attempt. He’s lying through his teeth.
See http://www.queerty.com/did-olson-boies-just-secure-the-death-of-prop-8-20100617/#comment-315566 (Comment No 18) with his additional “contributions to that thread being baseless personal attacks (Comment Numbers 20, 22, 24, 26, 29, 31, 34, 37, 39, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 70, 72, 74, 76, 78, 80, 82, 83, 85, 87, 89, 91, 93, 95, 97, 99, 101, 103, 105, 108, and 110 so far). Many are simply repeats or near repeats of the same garbage similar to what he posted in No 70 above.
B
In No 71, Bill Perdue falsely claimed, “The Field Poll is far and away the most consistently accurate poll about California politics. It showed us winning until the Obama Effect torpedoed our chances.”
This is a classic example of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Bill Perdue failed Introduction to Logic 101. Basically, his post is a conspiracy theory.
B
In No. 68 · Bill Perdue lied again by saying, “When ‘B’ get cornered he starts snalring …” Perdue, you can’t even spell it, but that aside, what I said was an accurate description of your behavior. It’s not my fault that your mommy never taught you how to behave in public. When you post the same set of lies repeatedly (often using the same wording that you cut and paste from some file you have on your computer), you are acting like Goebbels – i.e., you are using the “big lie” technique. It’s a simple fact.
What you are really saying is that you have the right to libel people to your hearts content and nobody has any right to tell you off when you do that.
B
In No 71, Bill Perdue opined, “It wasn’t because of the African American vote or the Bradley Effect or a lack of money by No on 8. (No on 8 raised $43.3 million compared to the $39.9 million raised by Yes on 8.) We lost because of the eurocentric approach of Democrat front groups like HRC and EQCA and it was most of all the Obama’s “gawd’s in the mix” and it’s massive use by the roman, mormon and southern baptist cults that galvanized the bigot vote, …”
Closer to reality – http://www.mydesert.com/article/20081126/NEWS01/811260312/Prop-8-opponents-dissect-defeat : “Opponents of the recently passed ban on same-sex marriage had plenty to talk about during a virtual town hall meeting Tuesday discussing what went wrong for the first time with the campaign. Organizers blamed the surprise defeat of Proposition 8 on lackluster fundraising, misleading opinion polls and media coverage of a lesbian wedding used to scare voters into believing children would be taught about gay relationships. ‘Frankly, it was a real credibility problem for our campaign,’ said Steve Smith, No on 8 senior consultant.”
Seems that the experts on the subject (those who had a lot to do with the campaign) don’t agree with Bill Perdue. The article has an obvious typo “surprise defeat” should be “surprise win”. Also, the “No on Eight” side was in fact short of cash in late September and early October. More cash came in, but by the time it arrived, there wasn’t time to use it optimally. It’s not just the totals that matter but when you have the cash on hand.
Also look at http://crooksandliars.com/julia-rosen/prop-8-campaign-misrepresents-obamas-p : “Prop 8 Campaign Misrepresents Obama’s Position in Mailers to African-Americans.”
So, the “Yes on Eight” side explicitly targeted African-Americans and the “No on Eight” side did not respond, at least not in time.
Bill Perdue
Here’s B’s racist view: “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.”
He pretends to associate that with an NLGTF report on this question but that report says “According to this survey, blacks’ support for the ballot measure was much lower than reported by Election Day exit polls” the exact opposite of ‘B’s racist claim that the Black vote was a “pretty significant chunk of it.” Nowhere does he mention religion until called on his racism.
http://www.queerty.com/did-olson-boies-just-secure-the-death-of-prop-8-20100617/
Those attacks mentioned in ‘B’s post 73 are from a thread where ‘B’ gets roundly denounced by most of the commenters and then runs away, tail between his legs. He call them idiots who engage in basesless personal attacks but the truth is they’re (including me) just people who question his racist, right wing pro-religious agenda. He uses one of his divorce court tactics tp pretend that perfectly valid opinions as a conspiracy to get him.
Stay tuned for the the next heartrending, tear-jerking episode of “They hate me, they all hate me” on As The Stomach Turns starring ‘B’, Der Papenfuehrer, McCain, Clinton, Rekers and Ashburn.
whoopi
Sure, in quantity, racial minorities played little to no importance in banning Cali’s same-sex marriages. But sometimes it’s the quality that matters and in this case they did fail by large margin in terms of quality. This comes from a minority!
Bill Perdue
‘B’, with understandable issues of low self esteem now thinks, hopes is more like it, that he’s being stalked.
It must be very lonesome being a lawyer for the rightwing, religion and racism.
B
No. 77 · Bill Perdue lied some more by saying, “He pretends to associate that with an NLGTF report on this question but that report says “According to this survey, blacks’ support for the ballot measure was much lower than reported by Election Day exit polls” the exact opposite of ‘B’s racist claim that the Black vote was a “pretty significant chunk of it.” Nowhere does he mention religion until called on his racism.”
Perdue is again lying through his teeth. The report in question
( http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf ) clearly states that one exit poll claiming that 70% of Blacks voted in favor of Proposition Eight gave a number that was substantially too high – the real one is about 58%.
Perdue also lied about when I mentioned “religion” as it was in the very first post where I brought up the subject. The link to it is http://www.queerty.com/obama-will-let-some-gay-federal-workers-share-gym-memberships-20100603/#comment-309977 and what I wrote (in reply to a bogus statement by Bill Perdue) was:
“As to Blacks, a post-election statistical analysis ( http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_affairs/glbt/pdfs/Prop%208%20Report.pdf ) showed that religious views were the determining factor in how people voted, and that the relatively high Black vote in favor of Proposition Eight (58% of Blacks) simply reflected a higher level of religious belief among Blacks than among the population as a whole. Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to ‘tip the scale’, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.
“Blaming Obama (who couldn’t even vote in this particular election) and ignoring the Black vote and the reason for it is a recipe for losing when (or if) a repeal is attempted. It’s important to note the reason for that vote in order to improve the cost effectiveness of campaign advertising and “outreach” for this particular demographic.”
Bill Perdue has been lying incessantly to the point of being pathological.
B
No. 79 · Bill Perdue whined about being called on his obvious cyberstalking – as evidenced by his continual lies (see No. 79 for documentation regarding his claims of “racism”) and by his obsessive repetition of the same lies (see No 73, and add No 112 to the list … it is growing on that thread).
B
One more thing regarding No 77 should be mentioned – Bill Perdue, being completely dishonest, never provides a link to the thread he claims to be referring to. Why is that? Because if someone actually looked at the thread, the extent to which Bill Perdue is lying would be evident.
Bill Perdue
Here’s B’s racist view. He cooks the stats, comparing the African American to 2% of the total vote instead of 52% of the total vote to exaggerate its importance, echoing the racist reaction in the days after of election. In this post he never mentions but does say “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.” Jun 17, 2010 at 11:23 pm at http://www.queerty.com/did-olson-boies-just-secure-the-death-of-prop-8-20100617/
‘B’ is a compulsive liar and supporter of Rekers, der papenfuehrer, Ashburn, Clinton, the DADT compromise and everything right wing and ugly that comes down the pike.
Thanks for confirming that the NLGTF has no relation to your racist views. They’d have sued your ass off if you hadn’t, understandably, chosen to be anonymous.
I provide links as needed, not for show. ‘B’, who ever so desperately need attention, even claiming that he’s being stalked. will just have to do his own research.
B
In No 83, cyberstalker Bill Perdue is again repeating his claims about “racism” even after having been shown, with documentation, to be a liar (See No. 80). No statistics were “cooked” no matter how much Bill Perdue lies – the reason has been described numerous times – and nothing Bill Perdue says will change the fact that 0.28 = (0.08)(0.07)/0.02, the reason why the excess Black vote in favor of Proposition Eight accounted for just under 30% of the excess vote in favor of Proposition Eight, nor will it change the reason that this fact is important (see the quoted text in No 80).
Perdue additionally proves himself to be a real idiot by writing, “They’d [the NLGTF] have sued your ass off if you hadn’t, understandably, chosen to be anonymous.” Completely ridiculous! The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy Institute has no grounds for a lawsuit when nothing unfavorable was said about that organization nor even its study (which I claimed was a good one). It was quoted accurately, and the only person who has any reason to be upset is Bill Perdue himself as what he claims the study stated regarding the Black vote has nothing to do with reality – the study showed that the 70% Black vote reported in a single exit poll was a significant overestimate. They provided the report on a server and all I did was to recommend that people look at it!
Bill Perdue also lied by saying, “I provide links as needed, not for show.” The real reason is that the links would make his lies too obvious as No 80 makes clear.
Bill Perdue
‘B’ is a compulsive liar and supporter of Rekers, der papenfuehrer, Ashburn, Clinton, the DADT compromise and everything right wing and ugly that comes down the pike.
Here’s the documentation of ‘B’s racist views. He invents stats, comparing the African American vote to 2% of the total vote instead of 52% of the total vote to exaggerate its importance and excite racist animosity. In this post he says “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.”
Jun 17, 2010 at 11:23 pm at http://www.queerty.com/obama-will-let-some-gay-federal-workers-share-gym-memberships-20100603/ not the thread I cited in 83
B
In No. 85, cyberstalker Bill Perdue repeats his lies some more, this time pretending I was supporting various individuals (e.g., Rekers and Ashburn) and “everything right wing”. Perdue pretends that calling Ashburn “ineffective” is somehow supporting him, that describing how the web works is somehow suppporting Rekers, that suggesting that the current Pope behaved like just about any other German kid when he was a teenager and did what he was told is somehow supporting the guy (after all, if he was God’s earthly spokesperson to be, he would have actively opposed the Nazi regime). Bill Perdue is just spewing lies.
And this hypocrite as the nerve to suggest a summary of statistical data is “racism” when that summary was part of a reply to one of Bill Perdue’s own rants blaming our first African-American president for things he simply did not do.
You can find it at http://www.queerty.com/obama-will-let-some-gay-federal-workers-share-gym-memberships-20100603/#comment-309753 and if anything is “racist” it was Bill Perdue’s own statements (my reply follows in the next comment below the one I just linked to).
Bill Perdue
‘B’ is a consistent liar and defender of homophobes like Rekers, der papenfuehrer, Ashburn, Clinton and homohating sellouts like the DADT compromise.
He’s also a racist who concocts stats, pretending tthat comparing the African American vote to 2% of the total vote instead of 52% of the total vote is not racist when it’s only goal is to incite racist animosity. He says says “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.”
Nathan
Queerty! In all its glory!
B
In No. 87 cyberstalker Bill Perdue repeats his lies from No 85, with minor wording changes because QUEERTY does not allow duplicate comments. See No. 80 for a reply to his idiotic claim and also note that he started his vendetta when his racist claims in http://www.queerty.com/obama-will-let-some-gay-federal-workers-share-gym-memberships-20100603/#comment-309753 were replied to.
Bill Perdue
‘B’ is a consistent liar and defender of homophobes like Rekers, der papenfuehrer, Ashburn, Clinton and homohating sellouts like the DADT compromise.
He’s also a racist who concocts stats, pretending that comparing the African American vote to 2% of the total vote instead of 52% of the total vote is not racist when it’s only goal is to incite racist animosity. He says says “Proposition Eight passed by 52% of the vote, and Blacks accounted for nearly 30% of that 2% margin in favor of Proposition Eight. That isn’t enough to “tip the scale”, but it is a pretty significant chunk of it.”
Bill Perdue
Queerty also allows pimps who defend Nazi popes, rightwingers like Rekers, Ashburn, and McCain and other scum.
Kayle
@Katt:
this is simply incorrect. Minority voting for Obama has nothing to do with it.
If proposition 8 weren’t on the ballot, minorities wouldn’t have known it, not matter who they were voting for to be president. if there hadn’t been a (almost exclusively white) media coverage on what it meant, those voting for president wouldn’t have even heard of proposition 8 enough to vote or care one way or another. and allllllll of the states are EXTREME MAJORITY WHITE. this is nonsense.
I mean even the anit-prop 8 advertising and initiatives were almost exclusively white.
But I guess when white just means “normal” in a culture and everybody else is encoded as “potentially threatening”, what should I expect but that minorities will be scapegoated for everything that goes wrong?