Masculine-presenting gay and bi guys opened up online recently after a Reddit user asked about their experiences with homophobia and passing as straight.
“Masc gay men, do you deal with homophobia as much?” the Redditor inquired. “Are people surprised to find out you’re gay?”
Related: This guy’s epic read of another dude asking if he’s ‘masculine’ is going viral
For a lot of commenters, the answer is “no” to the first question and “yes” to the second.
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“No, everything was pretty smooth for me. The only time I really experienced it was when a homeless guy shouted ‘f*gs’ at me when I was walking down the street with a fem friend,” one wrote. “Yeah, people tend to be surprised. My own mom didn’t expect it, apparently.”
Another commenter said that he only experiences homophobia when he’s showing PDA with a guy. “Like, I once got threatened with death on the street for kissing my boyfriend at the time,” he said.
Related: Gay guys sound off on pressure to act masculine
But other masc guys said that they experience homophobia on a less overt level.
“[You get] the ‘Well, you’re not like one of THOSE fem gays I guess, so let’s resume our casual homophobia using gay and other slurs,’” one observed. “I actually enjoy being more blatantly fem because it cuts through all that bullshit faster. When you’re masc, people hide it for longer.”
Another wrote: “I deal with homophobia from straight guys making anti-gay jokes in my presence assuming I’m one of them … To try to counter this I’ve been wearing pride shirts on casual Fridays, but this doesn’t work so well because nobody comes into the office on Friday anyway.”
“Also, you’re expected to be kind of a stereotypical straight dude who just happens to like men: macho, emotionless, the one who takes control, hypersexual, [objectifying],” a third user commented. “I just happen to be a masc gay man who wants to cuddle and fall asleep next to another man I love.”
And other Redditors have encountered people who seem to want to put them back in the closet. “The most common reaction I get is ‘Don’t worry, I won’t tell anyone.’” one wrote. “I think most people mean well when they say this, but I really don’t like it. I feel like asking, ‘Why do you assume my sexuality is worth being hidden?’”
What say you, masc-leaning Queerty readers? How have you navigated these issues? Let us know in the comments below.
Chris
Ironically, as a “masc” acting fat man I get the most flack from my gay community. They tell me I’m not really gay because 1) I was in the military, 2) I have kids 3) My usually demeanor is one of what most think of is a straight man 4) I’m not running around snapping my fingers screaming “guhrl!!” Actually, I think those overly-dem acting fat guys are actually the ones putting on a front.
I am simply who I am. Just a regular West Texas guy who loves other guys. Sorry not running around acting like a drag queen on stage.
Chris
Sorry, “masc”acting GAY man. Damn autocorrect.
Donston
Everyone has different experiences growing up, have different sociologies as an adult and faces different prejudices or social pressures. So, there really isn’t any unified masc vs fem experience. While what exactly is “masc” and “fem” is still up debate. Someone’s masculine is another person’s obvious queen. I guess not being overtly “queer” does add more general closet and hetero pressures as well as add expectations to follow supposed gender norms. And this can make internalized homophobia or gay shame more likely. Not being so “straight passing” will make you a much easier and persistent target for the aggressive homophobes and of course effemiphobia. You will as well have certain expectations and assumptions concerning you. People become very conscious of wanting to fit in or out of whatever box. And orientation is not as unifying as we’d like to pretend it is. So, I’ve learned to look as people as individuals. Everybody’s got their own thing going on and their own internal and external struggles.
TheMarc
As a masc-presenting/acting guy, my experience matches up with the observation in this article for the most part. I rarely, if ever, experience a lot of anti-gay discrimination publicly. Professionally, I’m not in the closet and have no problem letting people no that I am gay; and sometimes, I do notice discrimination from colleagues, superiors and even business partners and clients. I don’t think it is any where near what I would experience if I were more femme; but it is definitely noticeable. I don’t think it is where it was say, 20 or even 10 years ago; but it’s still out there. It just underscores the need for anti-discrimination laws, especially at the federal level. A lot of anti-gay people will tell you they have no problem with gay men so long as they “act like men.” Though some do actually practice what they preach, a lot of are just spewing B.S. They discriminate all the same no matter how you present. Thus, the majority of the reason I don’t experience a lot of “in public” discrimination, they don’t know I’m gay.
Josh447
I ditto that. Well put.
Donston
I’ve just seen a lot of weird, incomprehensible and hypocritical stuff in my days. I had a boss who was married to a woman but was semi fem and openly inherently pan-sexual. However, he still judged effeminate “gays” and talked shit about guys who were overtly into dudes and had legit and unashamed homo passions, affections, romantic desires, relationship ambitions, love. He liked me despite myself being married to a guy. I think he viewed me as a “friend” because I was admittedly not homosexual and I wasn’t overtly fem. I’ve see a lot of those types of double standards and weird hypocrisies.
A decent amount of guys on the internet complain about effeminate “gays” not liking them because they’re “straight-passing” or because they’re not homosexual or not gay-identifying. But I’ve just never experienced that in real life. That seems to be a mostly social media thing. I think much of it comes down to is what you’re exuding. And a lot of “straight-passing” dudes, dudes who aren’t gay-identifying and/or dudes who are not homosexual just exude internalized homophobia or superiority rather they mean to or not. If you don’t exude that there is often not much resentment or resistance.
And yes, overtly “queer” guys definitely face more persistent and aggressive homophobia. That is an undeniable fact. I’ve gotten my fair share of “I’ll glad you don’t act like a girl” and “I’m glad you not like them other ‘gays” comments. That makes me feel more self-conscious and almost makes me want to act more effeminate in public. That’s what I’m talking about when I say people can become so aware of trying to fit in or out of whatever box. Then you have automatic expectations. Being “fem” does not automatically mean that you watch Rupaul’s Drag Race, it doesn’t mean you’re a complete bottom, it doesn’t mean that you’re not into sports. Just like being “masc” doesn’t mean you don’t watch RPDR, that you’re not into Lady Gaga, that you’re into sports, or that you’re a top. We use identity, mannerisms and gender expectation to quickly sum up people, categorize folks and come to conclusions. Those conclusions often don’t do justice towards the individual.
TheMarc
@Donston – One of the most aggressive, “gifted” tops I’ve ever known as a friend was a short, muscled, but very femme guy. As I’m not oriented for his style of love, I never got to experience it; but I did hear from some of his exes and past lovers. Femme means nothing to me in judging a man’s actual masculinity; which is not defined by simple, superficial mannerisms. But even we as gay men (who should know better,) continue to associate “masc” mannerisms with manly or “top” behavior and “femme” with feminine or “bottom” behavior. It’s all B.S. that we allow non-gays to continue to judge us by and we turn right around and judge ourselves in the same way. I think it’s important that this conversation continues within the community and even in the heteronormative landscape we live in. There are some “femme” gays who can kick any guy’s ass and some “masc” gays (and straight men) who spend more time plucking and preening than an R&B diva. On a corporate level, I feel we miss out on a lot of talent because someone presented very “femme” so they weren’t hired; even in this day and age.
Creamsicle
What else did people talk about on reddit today?
Smith David
Hmmm…I’ve always thought it must be nice to be masc enough to hide in plain sight. Must be really nice. For those of us who can’t hide behind a masc identity, we have to be ready to cut a bitch. LOL…someone is always trying to come for me. I don’t bother people and I am not overly flamboyant(nothing wrong with that) but I imagine it’s easier to be a gay man if masculine. I present as fem and my life has been challenging. But, I love my queens and I think we have the most fun. Masc guys are usually boring as hell and that’s how I get through the tough times. I just wish this wasn’t an issue among other things but most fem acting guys have just learned to roll with the punches. Guuuuurrrlll..it is what it is!
radiooutmike
As an adult who came out, I just present as a normal masc (not macho) dude. But I remember being taunted all through grammar school and high school. And I could never understand why? I just thought it was because I was a nerd. But, as my bf said, “Maybe they saw you as gay?” THAT blew my mind.
That thought made a lot of sense to me, considering some of the weird occurrences or situations I had growing up before college. So, when I came out, I just figured I had it relatively easy; in and after college because I could just blend in. Lying to myself for decades was a lot easier.
What I want to say to you is that I admire the balls you (and other fem guys) had to have to embrace yourselves. When I think of courage and strength, I think of fem gay men. Because you couldn’t hide. Sometimes with that POV, I feel ashamed that it took me so long to accept myself because I had the luxury of that camouflage. You, men like you I think as heroes.
dustashed
much of the rights we have now we owe to the femme gays who can’t hide who they are and have to prepare to fight at anytime; As someone who passes off as straight, I know there was a time I was ready to grow old and die with this as a secret– but thanks to their valiant sacrifice I’m able to live my life openly– they made it better for the rest of us
“straight passing” guys have the liberty of choice while the femme guys, as commenter above so eloquently put it, they have to be ready to cut a bitch– I can’t imagine how hard that must be