Yesterday, the United Methodist Church voted to continue its official opposition to same-sex marriage and openly LGBTQ clergy.
In a 438 to 384 vote at the church’s General Conference in St. Louis, Missouri, church leaders passed “the Traditional Plan” which maintains the church’s policies forbidding clergy from ordaining same-sex unions and serving as openly LGBTQ.
Alternatively, leaders could’ve voted in support of the “One Church Plan” which would’ve allowed both, but a majority chose the status quo.
According to CNN, “The United Methodists’ Book of Discipline states that all people are of ‘sacred worth’ but denounces the ‘practice of homosexuality” as “incompatible with Christian teaching.’ Openly gay and lesbian clergy members can be removed from ministry, but church trials on the matter are rare” even when clergy come out or ordain same-sex unions.
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Nancy Denardo, a lay delegate from western Pennsylvania, spoke against the One Church Plan at the conference, stating, “The One Church Plan does not agree with the words of our savior. [It] deceives young persons into believing that same-gender marriage is OK with God — when clearly it is not. The word became flesh — not the flesh becomes the word. I’m truly sorry if the truth of the Gospel hurts anyone.”
Clergy member Cara Nicklas from Oklahoma also spoke against the One Church Plan:
“By those advocating for the One Church Plan, I was either told explicitly that I am mean-spirited and unloving for holding to the church’s doctrine on same-sex relationships…. I don’t love all, I am told…. When gay persons become convinced I don’t love them because I don’t condone their behavior, it hurts my relationships with them. You surely don’t want to be united with me, if I am as mean and unloving as I am accused. If the One Church Plan passes, I’m certain you will not stop trying to make me fit your idea of a loving person.”
Jeffrey Warren, a gay delegate from New York, emerged as a passionate voice for equality. In the video below, he discusses how he wants the church to tell LGBTQ people that God loves them. He then shouts about how he’d like to see the church united in love rather then denying gay people like himself.
For anyone who missed it. #GC2019 pic.twitter.com/2aHcw0CLL4
— Savannah Vasquez (@hey_savvy) February 25, 2019
The LGBTQ Methodist advocacy group RM Network has pledged to continue to push for inclusion in the Methodist denomination. Observers have long thought that internal disagreements about same-sex marriage and LGBTQ clergy would lead to a schism, but it hasn’t happened yet.
Over 80 million people around the world identify as Methodist.
We will gather soon to determine the next steps in our continued advocacy for LGBTQIA+ people in The UMC. There may be a “traditional” (divisive) plan, but by no means is our work abandoned. This is our Church. This is our Christ. This is our God.
— RMNetwork (@rmnetwork) February 27, 2019
DCguy
Actual headline:
Methodist Church votes to continue practicing bigotry.
@HarryB
As for me church = peace, not struggle
TomG
It’s not really a problem since it’s legal in this country. Only bigoted Methodists will adhere to what they say. Besides, if you are against gay marriage, don’t marry someone of the same sex. Isn’t that easy ?
Polaro
I was raised Methodist. I left a long time ago. Still a solid choice.
Bob LaBlah
From the article: ” An official statement from Methodist Bishop Scott Jones said, “Our views on same-sex marriage have not changed. We will continue to welcome lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered and queer persons to our churches and affirm their sacred worth.”
I know, I know. Here comes ol’ Bob LaBlah again but I ask this: lets look at this from another perspective. These people were brought up to believe being gay was an abomination. They were taught gays should be ostracized and other such horrors. They no longer believe ostracized gay people and do see them as members of their church who too should be respected but they do believe that the structure of their church should remain AS IS. The vote shows that cracks are appearing in the granite their church’s doctrine is written but for the majority of the members things are fine as they are.
The reason why I have no problem with that is because I personally think we, gay people, have gone overboard in our demands on change. From what I just read in the article this sounds more and more like a political move from power hungry gays than a spiritual move and I stand with that church on their not budging. A church is suppose to preach inclusion and I don’t see anywhere in that statement they issued where this church is preaching hatred. I see a group (gays) of telling these people “we ARE going to march down your aisle hand in hand in wedding dresses and tuxedos switched on the genders PLUS have one of our own kind marry us at the alter whether you like it or not” and the church responded with a resounding “oh no you’re not”. If the faith of gays and lesbians is that strong then they should have their own church or working on doing just that. Christianity and Judaism has broken off into so many sects because of jealousy and feelings of exclusion or feelings that things should be this way or that way being the root cause. This sounds no different.
Polaro
Well, its because it is all made up voodoo anyway. The one thing any church can embrace, ignoring the phony dogma, is the concept of family and community. They have chosen to reject a part of the family and community, which is really backwards and counter productive. Yes, they no longer hate us, which is a step in the right direction, however, it raises the most fundamental question: what good is a church for anyway? They’re basically private clubs that cheat on taxes. They add little value to the community, especially considering their cost.
Bob LaBlah
“They have chosen to reject a part of the family and community, which is really backwards and counter productive.”
Polaro, my views on same-sex marriage more or less mirrors theirs. I see it as invasion of any church doctrine to reset the fundamental rules for recognition of family as it is written in church doctrine for one particular group. Their statement clearly indicated that they are welcoming to gays and lesbians. Stopping short of offering us low interest loans I can’t think of what else they can do to modernize while at the same time sticking to its founding principles. We have to understand that when we are playing in some one else’s backyard we have to play by the basic rules set up by the owners or simply move on and find our own place to play and call our own yard.
And just to let you ALL know I do not believe in that LGBQTWXYZ acronym as I came from the old school of you are either gay or lesbian, case closed, jury dismissed. We ourselves created such a divide that its now impossible to pull together the community that existed during the first three years after the Stonewall Riot. The term gay and lesbian will always be universal to me. We made strides in employment, business ownership and the like but once every Tom (the other one and Harry) started coming out of the woodwork demanding recognition the community centers we set up became unrecognizable as far as unity goes. I can’t blame the Methodist for saying no. They accepted change but clearly stuck with tradition as far as I see it.
DCguy
Bob,
You said….”The reason why I have no problem with that is because I personally think we, gay people, have gone overboard in our demands on change. ”
—-
I find it fascinating that wanting simple equality and civil rights seems to be seen as “Going Overboard” to you. So should women have said “Well, we got the right to own property, so lets not go overboard and ask for the vote”?
Bob LaBlah
DCGuy, your argument makes no sense and you know it. You sound like a drunk queen at a bar trying to continue an argument after the lights have gone out and the bartender has locked the door and sweeping the floor. This is religion we’re talking about here.
Bob LaBlah
@DCGuy
The Church of God in Christ and the AME denomination are perfect examples of accepted separatism in religion. I’ll let you research as to why that is but before I leave do you think the reaction would have been the same had either one of those churches were in that predicament?
Jared MacBride
Bob, what are you smoking? Self-loathing is no way to go through life.
Bob LaBlah
The CBS Evening News just aired a segment about this. There is a an out of the closet Methodist priest out in California name Michael Pearson who says that this will hopefully be the start of a new church. I agree with his way of thinking. He was pretty adamant about the possibilities of this but you can also tell from his comment that he feels its best they move on and start their own church.
DCguy
Bob, sweetie, you can always tell when you don’t have a legitimate response because you lash out, name call, etc…
Facts are facts, you think LGBTs simply wanting to not be discriminated against is overreach. I pointed out very simply that if African Americans, Asians, etc… were in the same spot NOBODY who was a member of those groups would be saying “Oh gosh, maybe not wanting to be discriminated against is asking for too much, ”
As a response you burbled out a few insults.
Score one on your side for internalized shame.
Bob LaBlah
DCGuy, to go any further with you will amount to child abuse so lets all say you sho’ nuf dun’ put ol’ Bob in his place, declare victory and move on.
GeorgeMTL
@Bob I’m sorry but I must disagree with you. I understand what you’re saying, but we can’t just not call out bigotry when we see it. I’m not Methodist, however, just because some people equate our being gay with rimming in the aisles doesn’t that we can’t try to change those assumptions. After all, when people are in church, they are often there in traditional heterosexual units. Mom, Dad, 2 kids. Etc.
No one is wondering “did Marge do the reverse cowgirl with Ralph last night?” so why should we just shrug it off or give up trying to be included because of this hypocritical behaviour?
Inclusion means acceptance, not “you’re allowed to be here, of course, but we all know you’re a vile, sinful abomination”.
Sure we are making progress and I hope that they revisit the issue, but I wouldn’t just say “oh well, we lost” and move on.
Xzamilloh
Still doing the “God” thing, I see? Okay, y’all have fun with that mess.
QueerTruth
This is so dumb. Why are we still trying to fit into a church/society that clearly rejects us and more importantly, clearly is wrong about spirituality.
It’s time to move on. Much of society has transcended the ancient religions… It’s time we move on.
Can we just start our own Queer Church? No Gods or dogmas. Just quiet meditation, prayer, and pot luck lunches.
Polaro
And church hats…we much have crazy hats.
1898
“Can we just start our own Queer Church?”
no need to reinvent the wheel. do a google search for Metropolitan Community Church. that denomination was started in 1968 and has been the de facto queer church for decades.
QueerTruth
1898,
That’s a Christian Ministry. No thanks.
That’s my point. No more Christian dogma, any dogma for that matter.
QueerTruth
Polaro,
Yes and lots of hats. 🙂
1898
@QueerTruth I think what you’re describing is more of a social club than a church, which is fine of course and there’s nothing stopping you from starting it up!
QueerTruth
1898,
No, not a club. Spiritual. It’s just not need to be another watered-down Christian Church.
gymmuscleboy
@QueerTruth That is a refreshing, mature approach. We can easily “show them how it’s done”, rather than cry a river that they don’t like us! Hello, we are in the free world – we can go our own way.
1898
@QueerTruth what you described in your first post — “meditation, prayer, and pot luck lunches” — is exactly what I’ve experienced at Unitarian Universalist churches, and having spent a fair amount of time in them, I consider them clubs rather than churches. the only churchy thing about most of them are the buildings, which tend to look like traditional churches because that’s how they started out, but most of today’s UU congregations are very un-church-like in the way they function
Mr-DJ
When clergy member Cara Niklas says she “doesn’t condone our BEHAVIOR”, she is exhibiting the core of the problems. The correct view and approach to this should be “condoning our EXISTENCE”. That’s what God wants. He created us as we are. And while some physical aspects of our being can be altered, not our very essence. And this is what God is most concerned with – our Spiritual existence, not our worldly existence. He works in mysterious ways, and we don’t know why he created the diversities in us that he did. But it should be celebrated, not demonized just because it not understood. Jesus, and prophets, and lords of other religions teach us this. So anyone ‘claiming’ to be religious, needs to listen to this and take heed and understanding.
redzebra1
They should just LEAVE! There are other more accepting church denominations, I imagine, or just start a new one totally, etc. They’re wasting time. Might as well bang your head against a brick wall!
Jared MacBride
It’s a church. They all suck. Anyone affiliating with one of them should know what to expect.
Heywood Jablowme
There are plenty of pro-gay Protestant churches, with same-sex marriages and gay clergy and rainbow flags and so on. As mentioned above, MCC is around but they’re only in a few large cities. The United Church of Christ (UCC) is one much larger denomination. The Episcopal Church is another (the US version of the Church of England); ironically that’s the denomination the Methodists sprang from back in the 18th century when an Anglican cleric, John Wesley, founded Methodism. (His brother Charles was the songwriter who wrote “Hark the Herald Angels Sing” and that Easter hymn with all the alleluias.)
If you can do without belief in the Trinity, and you’re not even sure about that “God” character, there’s always the Unitarians.
1898
Well said
Billysees
I agree with 1898. Well said.
Heywood Jablowme
@1898 & Billysees: Thank you! I think a lot of gay people are totally unaware of these options. I’m an atheist (I guess!) but I enjoy going to my local Unitarian “church” once in a awhile. Interesting talks and a lot going on there. Hey, a single guy might even meet a date there.
StupidBoy
Another reason organized religion is just a front for money and power, money and power.
sydboy007
I’m sure the mosques in St Louis are happy to welcome the LGBT community and fully support same sex marriage
JessPH
Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
No self-respecting gay person would continue to affiliate himself with any anti-gay religion.
Billysees
JessPH
Interesting —
Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
GayEGO
Tee hee! The end result will be that this church loses members! What ever happened to the story about “The Good Samaratin”. Now that is a good thing to teach, love and acceptance for all genders!
irbaboon
Why would any gays want to belong to a religion that has spent the past 2000 years persecuting their own kind?