Who’s ready for some fun statistics-backed blame gaming! A survey conducted last week reveals some 65 percent of Americans believe organized religion is connected to higher rates of suicide among LGBT youth, while 72 percent say religious institutions are behind “negative viewers” of queers. Nearly a third of Catholics (more than twice as any other religious denomination) would give their own church’s handling of homosexuality a D or F. And while four in ten respondents say all places of worship would receive a D or F grade, roughly the same number would their own temples an A or B rating. (Read: Everybody’s views are skewed.) But in the middle of religious institutions being attacked, at least Christians and Jews — who disagree on some of the most basic tenants of life, creation, and the lord — are coming together on something: Archbishop Timothy Broglio of the Archdiocese for the U.S. Military and Metropolitan Jonah of the Orthodox Church in America both agree that repealing Don’t Ask Don’t tell could totally harsh on their shared belief that homosexuality is disgusting.
alan brickman
Don’t blame Jesus…blame the people who distort his message…..
Richie
It’s not Jesus that scares people, it’s his “Followers”.
Vman455
“Tenets,” Queerty, “tenets”–not “tenants.”
Ian
Pack of ignorant fools. I bet they also believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, the greek God Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite, etc. When will people STOP externalizing the fear of one’s negative psychological impulses into the belief in dieties that will “smite” them if they don’t tow the line of some absurd edicts from a book of fiction (aka the bible)?
Use the judgement of one’s OWN mind and then equal rights for all gays is a no-brainer.
kityglitr
Seriously Queerty? The survey interviewed about 1,000 people. I understand that surveys sample a small portion of the population but that is a really small survey. Have them take that survey again in the deep south, rural Maine, or in eastern Washington state. The results would differ greatly.
Stefan
@kityglitr:
Well I assume that they got a demographic representing the nation as a whole, though a larger sample would’ve given a better view yes.
Kieran
You can easily make the point that Organized Religion (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are responsible for much of the homophobia in the world without resorting to being deliberately crude and offensive. Not all gays are bitter, seething atheists. And that “2,000 year old man nailed to the cross” whom you dismissively write of, never uttered a single word of condemnation against homosexuals.
B
No. 5 · kityglitr wrote, “Seriously Queerty? The survey interviewed about 1,000 people. I understand that surveys sample a small portion of the population but that is a really small survey.”
… a random sample of 1000 people out of a much larger population gives roughly a 3% error rate at a 95% confidence level, which is probably good enough for what they need. See http://www.custominsight.com/articles/random-sample-calculator.asp if you want to play around with various options. BTW, if you want half the error, you’ll roughly quadruple the sample size, and the cost of a survey is roughly proportional to the number of people contacted. That’s the primary reason the sample size is 1000 – 3% accuracy is usually good enough for these for opinion polls.
One thing QUEERTY didn’t mention in the article it linked to was what that asshole Bill Donohue said: “Worse, it is libelous to suggest that because Christianity (and Judaism and Islam) is opposed to homosexuality that somehow it should be held responsible for whatever bullying did go on,” Donohue said in a statement on the group’s website. “Indeed, to suggest culpability is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to stifle religious speech.”
It seems Donohue is hypocritically claiming it is OK for his church to dump on gays but not for gays to dump on his church.
And just check the Bible for what Jesus supposedly said about hypocrites – whatever you think about the Bible, it is pretty clear from such passages that hypocrisy on the part of religious people is not a new problem.
Rainfish
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” – Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jCT9n9hItmA/SiOo5VSZZsI/AAAAAAAAAZg/sJhVi3J7h7M/s1600-h/Ghandi1.bmp[/img]
Sean
To be fair, Jesus hasn’t really never gave a specific position on any of this. The problem is really all the people who are super-confident about what prophets from thousands of years ago would say, and think they should live their lives accordingly.
I do wonder what it’s supposed to signify that most people think religion is a factor in homophobia. I mean, “what most people think” doesn’t actually change whether or not religion is or isn’t a factor. So, really I’m thinking that this just means “Christianity has a PR problem.”
The church-related statistics are not surprising at all. Most people think they are smarter than average, and most people think that they are better drivers than average (to such a degree that their self-assessment can’t possibly reflect reality). Similarly, even though many people are certain that a lot of churches are hard on gays, they are equally certain that their own churches are fine.
Of course, Catholics are a bit less in denial, but that’s not too surprising; Catholic leadership has been dramatically in conflict with what most American Catholics believe for decades.
Sean
Wow, my first sentence there is funny.
AdonisOfFire
Actually, if you truly understand scripture and the historical context of things you would understand what Jesus’ position about homosexuality is.
It is shown in the story of the centurion and his servant (the actual word is “pais” which is an idiomatic expresion meaning the bottom or beloved in a same-sex relationship). And Jesus moved by his faith blesses the centurion and heals his “pais”.
WillBFair
@AdonisOfFire,
Cool piece of scripture. I had forgotten that one. Thanks.
Also, Jesus and the Prophets’ are very clear that the oppressed are to be shown fairness and mercy by the ton.
peteNsfo
I am SO over religion and what they think, and scripture, and interpretation, and all of it.
I am Athiest, and by no means cranky about it, but you know… after a while, always having to hear about how awful all these people think I am, and how undeserving of equality I am in their minds, etc…
well, it just gets tired. Really, really tired.
If I’m so horrible, pray for me, but please, please, please- just stay out of my life & laws, huh?
Kev C
Most religions, especially Abrahamic ones, condemn homosexuality. Some bigots use this a justification for gay bashing and discrimination. Bullies don’t know much about religion or anything, and without religion, the same bigots would find another reason to justify their hatred towards gays.
Paschal
@Kieran: People tend to blame religion for everything. Homophobia is caused by ignorance. While religion contributes to homophobia, it’s not the only cause. Religon and tolerance and acceptance for lgbt people can and do co-exist.
That Bitch Téa Delgado
God save me…from your followers.
AdonisOfFire
@WillBFair:
Also the story of David and Jonathan is very interesting to analize, of course it is not said explicitely they had a sexual relationship but a very close friendship and kissed and hugged each other.
WillBFair
@AdonisOfFire: @AdonisOfFire,
Yeah, I had forgotten that one too. Thanks.
There also are verses about the disciple that Jesus loved. Well, didn’t he love all of them? What was so special about that disciple? There’s no scholarship on that, but to my mind, it at least raises the possibility that there was something more there.
Cung Vo
I like Jesus but not Jesus Christ, who is only the story Paul created. The chistian do not think they will be good, but they think they are good. The big problem for the world from 1,000’s years til now because they don’t know who and how they are. Most of them were not looking for the peace but looking for the power.
Kev C
@AdonisOfFire: The story of Joseph too. According to the Quran, Joseph (Yusef) was incredibly beautiful. His parents favored him with a coat of many colors. His brothers became jealous, bullied him and sold him into slavery. The beautiful wife of his slave master constantly tries to seduce him but he refuses. Later, when the Pharoah gives Joseph a wife, he immediately refuses her.
Gaydar hadn’t been invented yet.
hf2hvit
OH, Jesus…get off the cross…somebody needs the wood.
DaveNY
Kill your God!
Kill your TV!
Pete
BS survey, you know it and i know it.
The reason gay kids kill themselfs its because its a medical fact that most gays have very serious mental issues.
Another thing about gays is that they always try to blame something or someone else.
Pete
PS – In all non-christian nations and cultures that are still not under the influence of judeo-anglo-americanism (aka they still have their wits intact) gays are not accepted. This article also shows classic western-centric idiocy.
Lefty
@Pete: “judeo anglo americanism”???
I haven’t laughed this much in ages.
Thank you.
Soupy
Pete must be gay, because he has very serious mental issues.
Pete
@DaveNY: Why kill the TV (aka Jew-box aka Talmud-vision)? Its the nº1 propagator of faggotry…
southpaugh
@Ian:
“When will people STOP externalizing the fear of one’s negative psychological impulses into the belief in dieties…”
That’ll happen about the same time that religion stops brainwashing children in magical thinking as a virtue and the current generations of irrascible True Believers either shake of the yokes of delusion or die out. Unfortunate, but true. Unfortunately, not in our lifetime.
southpaugh
@Sean:
There are a few facts you’re overlooking or perhaps don’t know about. Even the Catholic church has a history of blessing marriages between same sex couples, before the Ecclisiastical heirarchy clued in that money could be made by making marriage an official part of worship. There’s even a same sex couple whose union was blessed by a Bishop who were later canonized. It wasn’t until the English translations, specifically the King James Version in England from 1605 to 1611, that mistranslated key verses in Leviticus, switching temple prostitutes for “those who lie with men as if a woman” and changed it from essentially a social faux pas to a capital crime. There were dicta requiring portions of the text be translated to conform with the church’s “authority” which centered on divide and conquor politics, all the better to control the populace. Look at how well it’s been working.
Soupy
Please Pete, it’s not our fault that you can’t find a boyfriend.
Silver
@kityglitr: I don’t see where the 1,000 number popped up, I didn’t see it in the article in the Salt Lake Tribune. In any case, 1,000 respondents is more than enough to give a sample of the entire U.S.. The sampling is random and nationwide, which the article did address. You don’t take the respondents from one geographical area or ethnic/religious/socioeconomic group unless you want to have an awfully unrepresentative survey.
robert in nyc
Actually, it was orthodox judaism in the old testament that started institutionalized homophobia when they used and continue to use that worn out unproven Leviticus mantra to justify hate and discrimination, there was no mention of any deity actually saying it. It was then handed down to the christian and islamic cults. “Christian” cults arguably have the worst track record I would say and it hasn’t changed much.
kayla
@robert in nyc: Really, Christian cults have the worse track record!?! So Islam is really pro-gay right?? Ha ha ha, You people hate Christians so much you say the stupidest things!!And as for there not being any homophobia in Eastern religions, I can only laugh at this assertion!! Don’t let your anti-Christian views blind you to the reality that almost every culture on earth has been homophobic, for some reason, perhaps it’s the procreation issue, people have been generally averse to homosexuality. Even the Romans insulted the Greeks for their enthusiastic man on man loving!!And Even the Greeks, were they alive today, would be repulsed by modern homosexuality. They never saw homosexuality, as an identity in itself. They all had wives and children. They were pederasts!! They saw male/male sex as a teacher/student arrangement. It would never occur to the majority of them to leave their wives and children and set up house with a man.
robert in nyc
Kayla, christianity has been around a bit longer than islam and I decry both, in fact all of them, just as I despise christianity. It wasn’t so long ago it considered women as chattel, property, not much different than islam and orthodox judaism today. Christianity isn’t exactly pro-gay either, far from it.
Seems as if you’re in denial about your so called “christian” gay haters, among others, most of whom support discrimination against us which is nothing more than hatred, especialy when it comes to civil marriage equality which they think they own, but don’t, that’s just one issue, there are others. None of them have any moral authority to judge others given their collective history and need to clean up their own filthy, bigoted houses first.
the crustybastard
How does “Christians have the worst track record” somehow mean “Islam is really pro-gay.” It doesn’t. Do you imagine that if somebody said, “mass murderers are the worst criminals” that the subtext somehow becomes, “child molesters are really sweet people”?
Furthermore, your grasp of history is as deficient as your grasp of logic.
Even assuming your point that most civilizations have been anti-gay, most civilizations throughout history have likewise been misogynistic. That doesn’t somehow validate misogyny.
However, having more than a passing familiarity with ancient history, I wouldn’t assume your point.
The Ancient Greeks were not a homogenous and unchanging culture over the course of their centuries of cultural prominence. Then as now, society’s customs swung between conservative and liberal. There were times and places where gay relationships were pedestrian, and there were times and places where a gay relationships were outrageous. And no, not every Greek was married with children.
The same could be said for Rome. Indeed, the famed Roman general and Emperor Hadrian was (despite his arranged political marriage to Sabina) as gay as brunch. Following the example of Alexander the Great, he even deified his dead boyfriend, and the cult of Antinous proved uncommonly widespread and durable, and was for a time the most popular religion in the Greek-speaking world — a direct competitor to Christianity.
Of course, you gotta go outside of Bible school to learn this stuff.
edgyguy1426
@Vman455: This isn’t the first time Queerty was able to make that distinction. Perhaps they belong the the Alan Cummings school of blogdom.
kayla
@the crustybastard I know all about Hadrian, though it is alleged that he killed the young man himself and it was his guilt that forced him to put on such a show of grief afterwards!! Of course there were full blown gay Greeks and Romans, but there was never a culture of accepted homosexuality as it is presented today. Please name me one city state in ancient Greece where men customarily shacked up with other men for life. And don’t say Sparta, that would be disingenuous!!
Just because you aren’t familiar with Islamic history and have a Western-centric view doesn’t mean that Christians were the worst homophobes. Muslims are still stoning and hanging their gays, In some places today, 2010, they collapse walls on gay men, what do you think they’ve been doing since Muhammad had his vision in the desert 1400 years ago??
kayla
@the crustybastard: I’m not a Christian, nor am I anti-gay, or anti-gay rights, or anti-gay marriage. It just amuses me to see people complaining about being victims of bigotry, constantly write and say the most bigoted things about people of different religious affiliation or ethnic backgrounds!!
My mother did send me to vacation bible school when I was a child, and all I can say is, I had a hell of a good time!!
FYI
@kayla: Sorry, KAYLA, you don’t know what you are talking about. Homosexual unions (as well as legal marriages) were not uncommon in ancient times — that is, before Judeo/Christian tribal taboos were imposed upon Europe by power-hungry Roman Emperors. These Imperial despots simply wanted to consolidate their reign over a vast empire by incorporating a single state monotheistic religion into a powerful paternalistic power structure not subject to challenge by any unbridled diversity in belief systems, traditions, and local indigenous customs.
—-For Your Information (courtesy via Wiki)—–
“There were also same sex unions among peers among the Ancient Greeks which were not age-structured. Numerous examples of these are found in Ancient Greek writings.
***** Aristotle praised a same sex couple (Philolaus and Dioclese) who lived their whole lives together and maintained a household together until their deaths when they were buried side by side.[18]******
****Lucian describes a debate in which a proponent of same-sex relationships describes them as being more stable than heterosexual relationships and goes on to express the hope that he will be buried with his lover after they have passed their lives together.[19]*****
Famous Greek couples in same sex relationships include Harmodius and Aristogiton, Pelopidas and Epaminondas and Alexander and Bogoas. However in none of these same sex unions is the Greek word for “marriage” ever mentioned. The Romans appear to have been the first to perform same sex marriages.
*****The first recorded mention of the performance of gay marriages occurred during the early Roman Empire.[20]******
At least two of the Roman Emperors were in gay unions. The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. Nero “married a man named Sporus in a very public ceremony… with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse” A friend gave the “bride” away “as required by law.”[21] The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies.[22]
******The emperor Elagabalus married an athlete named Hierocles in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens.[23]******
Same-sex marriage was outlawed on December 16, 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans.”
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
—————————————-
So, you see, KAYLA, you know not of what you speak. The Abrahamic religions, with their immature sexphobias and control-freakish mentalities brought the abomination of Judeo/Christian/Islamic sexual neurosis to the world. The world was a more natural and less judgmental place before the advent of these Genocidal and Death-worshiping cults.
Aussie Col
@FYI: Thanks for the info. I’d been searching for the stuff on Constantinus.
It’s sad that so many Christians don’t know Jesus.
Jesus was about love and inclusion; he hung around with social outcasts and the socially ‘unclean’.
He ignored the proscribed rules and attacked the religious institutions as not being reflective of God’s will.
He warned about judging others, doing unto others that which you would not like done to you, false piety, being attached to worldly possessions and that only God has the right to judge; all of this leads you to be unworthy for salvation.
To forgive others and loving your enemy are 2 prerequisites for entering the ‘coming kingdom’.
He told His followers that the correct way to pray is in solitude, and not to petition God. You don’t need to ask for God to know what you want. This is all in Matthew, Mark & Luke.
Just a point about Leviticus – it also considers the eating of shellfish; lobster, prawns, scampi, calamari as an abomination – the same designation they apply to the lines misinterpreted as a reference to being gay. I have not seen any Christian protests regarding sinful seafood platters. Leviticus also says it’s ok to have slaves.
There’s not much Jesus in the Christian religions. They don’t understand that His message was love; love your neighbour, love your enemy, love God. Religion is to blame.
It’s not gay issue it’s a human rights issue.
robert in nyc
The Crustybastard and FYI, thank you, well said!
customartist
The problem is the Old Men who seem to come into power within any organization, as they have within Religion.
The Bible is pure crap.
Mr. Tweet
lol Twitter must be outranking other social media sites