idiot logic

Netherlands to Gen. John Sheehan: You’re Stupid, Stop Talking

It’s not like U.S. military forces are necessarily “scared” of the Dutch military, but former NATO Commander Gen. John Sheehan’s comments at yesterday’s Don’t Ask Don’t Tell hearings, where he blamed the Netherlands’ military’s supposed failure in Bosnia in 1995 on their allowance of openly gay soldiers, is a thing of ridiculousness so grand, even the Pentagon should be furious over Sheehan’s remarks.

For now, though, it’s the Dutch administration responding: Stop talking, you fool.

Sheehan blames the overrunning of Srebrenica, a United Nations safe haven that Dutch forces were protecting, by Bosnian Serb soldiers on the Dutch military’s homos. “It is astonishing that a man of his stature can utter such complete nonsense,” says Dutch defense spokesman Roger van de Wetering. “The Srebrenica massacre and the involvement of UN soldiers was extensively investigated by the Netherlands, international organisations and the United Nations. Never was there in any way concluded that the sexual orientation of soldiers played a role.”

And the Dutch ambassador to the U.S., Renee Jones-Bos, weighed in, saying she “couldn’t disagree more.” And: “Dutch caretaker Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen said via Twitter that he was amazed at the ex general’s comments – saying they reflected more about the discussion around homosexuals in the US army than anything else.” Heh.

Sheehan is undoubtedly a smart guy and a talented military mind. He would not have been leading the NATO forces in the 1990s were he not. But he just sank his credibility, not just at home (Sen. Carl Levin essentially called him a moron to his face), but in the international military community, of which more and more are allowing gays to serve openly. Because they are not idiots.

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  • terrwill

    This scumbag deserves a wooden shoe up his ass…..

  • Basz

    This general has his brains between his legs: he can not think anymore.

  • RayWynner

    We may disagree about what the general said, but let’s at least be honest enough to recognize that he has nothing to gain by making this up. He is only reporting what he has been told and as much as we may dislike some in the military, these types are fanatical about honor and truth – and he’s faced death up close and personal so that we can have free speech.

    So, sure, disagree, but let’s rise above the petty, angry, hate and name-calling. There may not be a shred of truth to what he reported, but my bet is that he is telling us exactly what someone told him.

    Agree or disagree, I respect the man. And if we want respect, let’s just say, “OK General, give us date and time…” and let’s talk to whoever said this and see if they have the balls to own up to it!

  • andy

    The guy is a lying piece of shit and he is example number one of why we do need gays in the military. What we need in the military is less people like him. I dated a marine and as we all know gays are already in the military and always have been. We just want to be able to serve honestly.

  • Maikel

    Foreign minister Maxime Verhagen said to RTLnieuws (Dutch news programme): comments are inappropiate and bizarre.
    He also said that the Netherlands are proud of all their soldiers, male, female, straight AND gay.

    Happy to live in a country where the military is about what people can do, not about who they are!

  • tjr101

    And everyone is wondering why it’s taking so long to repeal DADT? Gen. Sheehan is not the only one with these views in the military, a lot of the top brass think the same way.

    You can’t force change onto the military because they have their own laws aside from the rest of society. The military is a very conservative environment and marches at it’s own pace regardless of how fast the rest of America moves.

  • terrwill

    @RayWynner: Sorry Ray, Way off!!
    He is not being “honest” he is a bigoted rightwing scumbag following the same tired hatefull dogma they have been spewing for decades. There have been many, many studies about the effect of Gays in the various nations who are allowed to serve openly in their military. And each results have been the same, there is no negative effect on the Gay or straight soldiers or the units coheisivness or effectivness…………

    You are correct on one point:

    “but my bet is that he is telling us exactly what someone told him.” That person is undoubtly a rightwing lunatic who presented him with an entirley fabricated taking points memo. His bullshit was discredited by the Dutch army for exactaly what it was: pure hatefilled bullshit……..

  • Cam

    So then by his logic, would our inability to find Weapons of Mass Destruction and to kick the Taliban completely out of Afghanistan be because our military DOESN’T allow gays to serve openly? The Soviet Union was routed in Afghanistan years ago, they criminalized homosexuality, so I guess that not having gays was the cause of their defeat huh? The Israeli Military is surrounded by people who’s stated goal is to push Israel into the sea, and they allow gays to serve openly….sooooooooo, this General better scramble there. Britian has been praised by our govt. for their assistance in Iraq, they have gays in their forces….so ….

    Again, this guy is your typical bigot, and he will do exactly what the Mormons, Fred Phelps, etc… do, lie and do whatever they can to try to get their way.

  • Wen

    Even our Dutch Prime Minister just released a statement saying its beneath all standards to make such remarks about our soldiers, gay, and any soldiers here who were in a very difficult position in Srebrenica at the time.

  • RayWynner


    So, again, he is “honest” in quoting others?

  • kevinvancouver

    C’mon US Military !!! Gays wanna a chance to kill brown people too!! uughhh :(

  • RayWynner

    It seems we are all (myself included) prone to overreacting. Of course, Gays can fight as well as straights. I think we would do better to respond by just pointing out the facts. So he was told … whatever! It doesn’t mean it’s true, it doesn’t mean he’s necessarily a bigot (maybe he is). We can begin to sound like the right wing… ouch! Relax, let the truth come out, let the studies be done – I’m military, I do my job, I don’t let my relationships distract from my job. Those who want to make such a big deal out of gays in the military end up looking kinda foolish – what a waste of time! Peace!

  • romeo

    Now that gay issues are starting to be taken seriously, conservatives, in their panic, are going to dredge up any dirty, flimsy lie they can. Note the other thread today about why Muslims are killing Christians. We can expect a lot of this kind of shit. We just have to stand up to it and answer back.

  • terrwill

    @RayWynner: He is a lifer in the military. He knows damm well that Gay soldiers have served with valor and courage. He knows the venom he was spewing was nothing but wicked dogma written to slander the Gay soliders. What is pathetic, is that a man who should be respected and looked up to for his service to his country would choose to stand up, piss all over his legacy and be ridiculed by his peers who are pointing out that he is nothing but a ideology driven liar……. I stand by my words………

  • terrwill

    What is ironic is that this pathetic fool shares the same last name of a Gay soldier who proudly served and gave his life serving his country in the military………..

  • Clyde

    We’ll probably never know what behind-the-scenes pressures or personal demons drove this once-honorable man to secure his name in the history books as such a bigoted loon. Yet, it’s clear from the video that he knew he was ruining his credibility. And still his lips kept moving. Seems like he owed someone a big favor, and his debtor considered him expendable. Disposable enough to use on such a futile, gesture of defiance. I have no pity for him, of course.

  • Frank

    John Sheehan is a racist and not a human being!

    All he does is spreading lies, especial about homo’s !!

    Frank, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

  • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

    @No. 3 @No. 10 @No. 12 RayWynner

    Sorry Ray, but a couple of old farts, stewing after half a dozen martinis in the officers’ club, saying, “oh the fucking faggots screwed up that one” does not count as legitimate discourse and argument about DADT.

    He is a homophobic bigot — clear and simple.

    Oh, and this bigot’s bigotry is also nicely coded in his comments about his claim of the Great Society effect on the military. Coded message: “letting all those niggers in was a big mistake, so many good white officers, non-coms, and GIs left the service because of it.”

    I had thought that the Neanderthals died out long ago; obviously, there are plenty still walking among us.

  • B

    No. 9 · Wen wrote, “Even our Dutch Prime Minister just released a statement saying its beneath all standards to make such remarks about our soldiers, gay, and any soldiers here who were in a very difficult position in Srebrenica at the time.”

    Here’s what the NY Times had at :
    “As my colleague David Rohde has documented in his book, ‘Endgame: The Betrayal and Fall of Srebrenica,’ the small force of 450 lightly-armed Dutch peacekeepers tasked with defending the enclave by the United Nations was simply not equipped to repel the invading Bosnian Serb Army. When the Serb commander, Gen. Ratko Mladic, led an attack on Srebrenica in July 1995, the Dutch repeatedly requested that their NATO colleagues use airstrikes to keep that force at bay. That close air support failed to come in time to prevent the Serbs from taking control of the town and eventually killing more than 7,000 Muslim men and boys.

    “Mr. Rohde explained that when the United Nations voted to declare Srebrenica and five other Bosnian towns ‘safe areas’ in 1993, the United States and other countries that supported the resolution failed to agree to send enough troops to police the towns. The United Nations estimated that it would take a force of 34,000 soldiers to protect the civilian populations of Srebrenica and the other towns that were completely surrounded by Bosnian Serb positions. Only 7,600 troops were divided among the six towns.”

    Also: “It is unclear if General Sheehan’s comments will carry much weight with the Senate committee. Before and after he left the military, the former Marine general had a history of making what might be called intemperate remarks on a range of subjects.”

    I guess it is not just the Dutch who think Sheehan is not particularly credible!

  • Wen

    @B, thanks for that! That explains very well what went wrong with Srebrenica, for real and that Sheehan seems to have a reputation!
    Eventough you know he’s saying blatant lies and they are completely rediculous, because they are so painful you gotta make statements to refute them, like the Dutch administration did, gladly. I hope in an indirect way this event can add to get DADT repealed. A government, like the Dutch, making such strong statements against the gay discrimination and homophobia like Sheehan’s and them totally rejecting it can have at least some influence on the process. I hope that makes sense what Im trying to say. Thanks for the article.

  • Wen

    @B what I mean is I wish there was more international pressure on the USA with regards to DADT and equal rights and gay marriage etc.
    Maybe there is, but we dont hear about it. So in that sense I said I hope it can have *some* influence on DADT.

  • jeffree

    @Wen: Thank you for that info. In feeling superior to everyplace and everyone, our US military forgets that many other countries have gays & lesbians fighting in wars right next 2 str8 soldiers. The US forgets that other military forces fight wars too, & that to be brave doesnt = to be str8!

    What happened in Bosnia was because of very old ethnic & relgious divides in that society, plus the lack of understanding of those tensions.

    when a fire breaks out in an old building with no smoke alarms or fire detectors or fire hydrant close bye, we dont blame the firefighters, right? Same logic should be applied in Bosnia.

  • EWE

    This is a classic example of a person who has been insulated his entire existence. He is not even worth addressing. Next time i want to hear about gay issues, it won’t be from this rediculous goon. He belongs beside the Westboro Baptists holding a sign and staring at drivers passing by.

  • EWE

    I wouldn’t mind seeing video of him jerkin off on his own desk though. Don’t talk. Just moan.

  • Tartuffe

    What a moron.

  • Theodore

    Somebody noticed that the former general suggested that unionization and acceptance of “happy” folks was something that came in the Netherlands after the fall of the Soviet Union?
    As unionization year for the Dutch military 1966 is most commonly used, but the oldest Dutch military unions date back to the 19th century, (though they went out of bussiness in WW II).
    1974 is the year the Dutch were the first to replace the primitive DADT with the 100% superior Don’t Bother-policy.

    Draw your own conclusions…

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