Today Wired.com published the full instant messenger chats between accused WikiLeaker Bradley Manning and Adrian Lamo, the ex-hacker who turned him in.
Just like we did with Manning’s Facebook page, we’ve combed through the IMs and picked out the queerest bits including and mentions of his depression, the abuse he allegedly suffered at the hands of an alcoholic father, his unhappiness in the army, his associations with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, a reference to Queerty, and his possible transgender identity.
You may disagree on whether you think Manning’s a patriot or a traitor, but it’s important not to assume that he acted out because of his trans identity or treatment at the hands of the military but at least in large part to a hope that the leak would somehow change US policy.
FYI, this chat begins May 21, 2010 though Wired says that the “logs contained time stamps but no dates.” Also, since we’re only reprinting the parts that have to do with queer issues, we have put ellipses in the gaps that skip over technical details and other non-queer issues.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
(1:47:01 PM) bradass87:im an army intelligence analyst, deployed to eastern baghdad, pending discharge for “adjustment disorder” in lieu of “gender identity disorder”…
(10:19:53 AM) [email protected]: You mentioned gender identity, I believe.
(10:19:59 AM) bradass87:ive had an unusual, and very stressful experience over the last decade or so
(10:20:53 AM) bradass87:yes… questioned my gender for several years… sexual orientation was easy to figure out… but i started to come to terms with it during the first few months of my deployment
(10:21:09 AM) [email protected]: May I ask the particulars?
(10:21:34 AM) [email protected]: I’m bi myself, and my ex is MTF.
(10:21:34 AM) bradass87:im fairly open… but careful, so yes..
(10:22:00 AM) bradass87:im aware of your bi part
(10:22:24 AM) bradass87:uhm, trying to keep a low profile for now though, just a warning
…
(11:22:50 AM) bradass87:uhm… anyway… i guess i can talk a little bit about myself… i mean, i’ve really got nothing to lose [i know, sounds desperate]
(11:23:19 AM) bradass87:i was born in central oklahoma, grew up in a small town called crescent, just north of oklahoma city
(11:23:59 AM) bradass87:dad was a manager of computer programmers at hertz corporation, doing legacy maint., etc
(11:24:41 AM) bradass87:mother was british (specifically welsh), married father while he was stationed at an air force base in southwest wales
(11:25:18 AM) [email protected]: I’m of Scottish & Welsh descent.
(11:25:22 AM) [email protected]: On one side.
(11:27:18 AM) bradass87:i was a short (still am), very intelligent (could read at 3 and multiply / divide by 4), very effeminate, and glued to a computer screen at these young ages [MSDOS / Windows 3.1 timeframe]… i played SimCity [the original] obsessively
(11:27:40 AM) bradass87:an easy target by kindergarten…
(11:28:07 AM) bradass87:grew up in a highly evangelical town with more church pews than people
(11:28:48 AM) bradass87:so, i got pretty messed up at school… “girly boy” “teacher’s pet”, etc
(11:29:57 AM) bradass87:home was the same, alcoholic father and mother… mother was very nice, but very needy emotionally… father was very wealthy (lots of nice toys / computer stuff), but abusive
(11:31:07 AM) bradass87:my favorite things growing up were reading my encyclopaedia, watching PBS (the only channel i could get on my TV) building with lego, and playing on my dad’s hand-me-down computers
(11:31:42 AM) bradass87:i lived in the middle of nowhere, so i had no neighbors to hang out with… and my dad would never take me anyway, because after work he’d hit the bottle
(11:32:58 AM) bradass87:i was a science fair buff… won grand prize in my town 3 years in a row… and played on the “academic bowl team” as team leader (which meant state championship!)
(11:33:46 AM) bradass87:i didnt like getting beat up or called gay [didn’t really know what gay meant, but knew it was something bad]
(11:34:06 AM) bradass87:so i joined sports teams, and started becoming an athlete
(11:34:19 AM) bradass87:around this time (middle school)… my parents divorced
(11:36:34 AM) bradass87:my father in a drunken stupor got angry with me because i was doing some noisy homework while he was watching TV… he went into his bedroom, pulled out a shotgun, and chased me out of the house… the door was deadbolted, so i couldn’t get out before he caught up with me… so my mother (also wasted) threw a lamp over his head… and i proceeded to fight him, breaking his nose, and made it out of the house… my father let off one or two shots, causing damage, but injuring nobody, except for the belt lashing i got for “making him shoot up the house”
(11:36:59 AM) bradass87:i went to school the next day, and my teachers noticed the wounds, and got social workers involved
(11:37:11 AM) bradass87:he immediately stopped drinking, and my mother filed for divorce
(11:37:29 AM) bradass87:after the divorce, my mother attempted suicide…
(11:38:23 AM) bradass87:after taking care of her for awhile, and gaining custody of me, my mother took me to her hometown, haverfordwest, wales… to live and go to school
(11:38:49 AM) bradass87:i spent four years in the UK, continuing my education
(11:39:13 AM) bradass87:i also started playing around more and more with computers, specificially webservers
(11:39:54 AM) bradass87:to try and mitigate various financial problems while going to school, i got the idea with a rather sly friend to form an internet startup…
(11:40:25 AM) bradass87:http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.angeldyne.com bradass87:we fell out over various issues… and the project was ended, luckily without any losses
(11:41:57 AM) bradass87:i learned a lot about running LAMP servers… sql jazz, routing, as well as the business stuff, PR etc…
(11:42:24 AM) bradass87:after that fell through, my education started to slip behind… as my mother started getting very ill
(11:42:43 AM) bradass87:she had a minor stroke… then a mild one… and i was getting desperate
(11:43:02 AM) bradass87:so i called my father, and begged him to live in the US again
(11:43:19 AM) bradass87:my passport had expired though… so i had to travel overnight to london
(11:44:11 AM) bradass87:i stayed at a hostel in the kings cross area overnight, and left to go to hyde park [where all the embassies are]
(11:45:13 AM) bradass87:what really sucked though, was that as i entered the station… all hell started breaking loose… there was a horrific boom, screaming, sirens, and thick black smoke… it was july 7th 2005…
(11:45:39 AM) bradass87:i panicked and went by foot, not knowing what was going on
(11:45:47 AM) [email protected]: sorry for latency … things demanding my attention are exceeding my capacity to allocate resources, forcing me to double-book mentally, and that only scales so far.
(11:46:04 AM) bradass87:its ok, im just venting a lot
(11:47:28 AM) bradass87:im very isolated atm… lost all of my emotional support channels… family, boyfriend, trusting colleagues… im a mess
(11:49:02 AM) bradass87:im in the desert, with a bunch of hyper-masculine trigger happy ignorant rednecks as neighbors… and the only safe place i seem to have is this satellite internet connection
(11:49:51 AM) bradass87:and i already got myself into minor trouble, revealing my uncertainty over my gender identity… which is causing me to lose this job… and putting me in an awkward limbo
(11:50:54 AM) bradass87:i wish it were as simple as “hey, go transition”… but i need to get paperwork sorted… financial stuff sorted… legal stuff… and im still deployed, so i have to redeploy back to the US and be outprocessed
(11:52:09 AM) bradass87:i could be hanging out here in limbo as a super-intelligent, awkwardly effeminate supply guy [pick up these boxes and move them] for up to two months
(11:52:23 AM) bradass87:at the very least, i managed to keep my security clearance [so far]
(11:57:49 AM) bradass87:im sorry, im a total mess right now… :’(
(11:58:33 AM) bradass87:and little does anyone know, but among this “visible” mess, theres the mess i created that no-one knows about yet
(11:58:59 AM) bradass87:i have no idea what im doing right now
(12:00:34 PM) bradass87:im so sorry
(12:04:36 PM) [email protected]: don’t be sorry, just give me a chance to read 😛
…
(12:31:09 PM) [email protected]: (12:26:09 PM) bradass87:lets just say *someone* i know intimately well, has been penetrating US classified networks, mining data like the ones described… and been transferring that data from the classified networks over the “air gap” onto a commercial network computer… sorting the data, compressing it, encrypting it, and uploading it to a crazy white haired aussie who can’t seem to stay in one country very long =L
(12:27:13 PM) bradass87:im here
(12:27:24 PM) [email protected]: Depends. What are the particulars?
(12:31:43 PM) bradass87:crazy white haired dude = Julian Assange
(12:33:05 PM) bradass87:in other words… ive made a huge mess :’(
(12:35:17 PM) bradass87:im sorry… im just emotionally fractured
(12:39:12 PM) bradass87:im a total mess
(12:41:54 PM) bradass87:i think im in more potential heat than you ever were
(12:41:54 PM) [email protected]
(12:45:59 PM) [email protected]: not mandatorily
(12:46:08 PM) [email protected]: there are always outs
(12:46:17 PM) [email protected]: how long have you helped WIkileaks?
(12:49:09 PM) bradass87:since they released the 9/11 “pager messages”
(12:49:38 PM) bradass87:i immediately recognized that they were from an NSA database, and i felt comfortable enough to come forward
(12:50:20 PM) bradass87:so… right after thanksgiving timeframe of 2009
(12:52:33 PM) bradass87:Hilary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and finds an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format to the public… =L
(12:53:41 PM) bradass87:s/Hilary/Hillary
(12:54:47 PM) [email protected]: What sort of content?
(12:56:36 PM) [email protected]: brb cigarette
(12:56:43 PM) [email protected]: keep typing bradass87:uhm… crazy, almost criminal political backdealings… the non-PR-versions of world events and crises… uhm… all kinds of stuff like everything from the buildup to the Iraq War during Powell, to what the actual content of “aid packages” is: for instance, PR that the US is sending aid to pakistan includes funding for water/food/clothing… that much is true, it includes that, but the other 85% of it is for F-16 fighters and munitions to aid in the Afghanistan effort, so the US can call in Pakistanis to do aerial bombing instead of americans potentially killing civilians and creating a PR crisis
(1:00:57 PM) bradass87:theres so much… it affects everybody on earth… everywhere there’s a US post… there’s a diplomatic scandal that will be revealed… Iceland, the Vatican, Spain, Brazil, Madascar, if its a country, and its recognized by the US as a country, its got dirt on it
(1:01:27 PM) bradass87:i need one myself
(1:10:38 PM) bradass87:its open diplomacy… world-wide anarchy in CSV format… its Climategate with a global scope, and breathtaking depth… its beautiful, and horrifying…
(1:10:38 PM) [email protected]
(1:11:54 PM) bradass87:and… its important that it gets out… i feel, for some bizarre reason
(1:12:02 PM) bradass87:it might actually change something
(1:13:10 PM) bradass87:i just… dont wish to be a part of it… at least not now… im not ready… i wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me… plastered all over the world press… as boy…
(1:14:11 PM) bradass87:i’ve totally lost my mind… i make no sense… the CPU is not made for this motherboard…
(1:14:42 PM) bradass87:s/as boy/as a boy
(1:30:32 PM) bradass87:>sighbradass87:i just wanted enough time to figure myself out… to be myself… and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else’s expectations
(1:32:01 PM) bradass87:*and not be
(1:33:03 PM) bradass87:im just kind of drifting now…
(1:34:11 PM) bradass87:waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged… and figure out how on earth im going to transition
(1:34:45 PM) bradass87:all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
(1:35:06 PM) bradass87:its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically
(1:35:06 PM) [email protected]
(1:39:03 PM) bradass87:i cant believe what im confessing to you :’(
(1:40:20 PM) bradass87:ive been so isolated so long… i just wanted to be nice, and live a normal life… but events kept forcing me to figure out ways to survive… smart enough to know whats going on, but helpless to do anything… no-one took any notice of me
(1:40:43 PM) bradass87::’(
(1:43:51 PM) [email protected]: back
(1:43:59 PM) bradass87:im self medicating like crazy when im not toiling in the supply office (my new location, since im being discharged, im not offically intel anymore)
(1:44:11 PM) bradass87:you missed a lot…
(1:45:00 PM) [email protected]: what kind of scandal?
(1:45:16 PM) bradass87:hundreds of them
(1:45:40 PM) [email protected]: like what? I’m genuinely curious about details.
(1:46:01 PM) bradass87:i dont know… theres so many… i dont have the original material anymore
(1:46:18 PM) bradass87:uhmm… the Holy See and its position on the Vatican sex scandals
(1:46:26 PM) [email protected]: play it by ear
(1:46:29 PM) bradass87:the broiling one in Germany
(1:47:36 PM) bradass87:im sorry, there’s so many… its impossible for any one human to read all quarter-million… and not feel overwhelmed… and possibly desensitized
(1:48:20 PM) bradass87:the scope is so broad… and yet the depth so rich
(1:48:50 PM) [email protected]: give me some bona fides … yanno? any specifics.
(1:49:40 PM) bradass87:this one was a test: Classified cable from US Embassy Reykjavik on Icesave dated 13 Jan 2010
(1:50:30 PM) bradass87:the result of that one was that the icelandic ambassador to the US was recalled, and fired
(1:51:02 PM) bradass87:thats just one cable…
(1:51:14 PM) [email protected]: Anything unreleased?
(1:51:25 PM) bradass87:i’d have to ask assange
(1:51:53 PM) bradass87:i zerofilled the original
(1:51:54 PM) [email protected]: why do you answer to him?
(1:52:29 PM) bradass87:i dont… i just want the material out there… i dont want to be a part of it
(1:52:54 PM) [email protected]: i’ve been considering helping wikileaks with opsec
(1:53:13 PM) bradass87:they have decent opsec… im obviously violating it
(1:53:34 PM) bradass87:im a wreck
(1:53:47 PM) bradass87:im a total fucking wreck right now
(1:54:04 PM) [email protected]: not really. 2600 is an ally of wikileaks.
(1:54:10 PM) [email protected]: how old are you?
(1:54:15 PM) bradass87:22
(1:54:55 PM) bradass87:but im not a source for you… im talking to you as someone who needs moral and emotional fucking support
(1:55:02 PM) bradass87::’(
(1:55:10 PM) [email protected]: i told you, none of this is for print
(1:55:16 PM) bradass87:ok, ok
(1:55:19 PM) [email protected]: i want to know who i’m supporting
(1:55:25 PM) [email protected]: no names as yet
(1:55:26 PM) bradass87:im flipping out…
(1:55:32 PM) [email protected]: security.
(1:55:43 PM) bradass87:huh?
(1:55:51 PM) [email protected]: re. no names as yet.
(1:55:56 PM) [email protected]: except brad, i assume.
(1:56:23 PM) bradass87:ive already sent you full name in emails…
(1:56:43 PM) [email protected]: oh! you’re the PGP guy
(1:56:52 PM) bradass87:yeah, im sorry
(1:56:57 PM) [email protected]: i’m an idiot
(1:57:33 PM) bradass87:im pretty reckless at this point
(1:57:53 PM) bradass87:but im trying not to end up with 5.56mm rounds in my forehead…
(1:58:38 PM) bradass87:that i fired..
(2:00:18 PM) bradass87:im not lying when i say im totally out of it right now
(2:01:02 PM) bradass87:ok, so… im not suicidal quite yet…
(2:01:14 PM) bradass87:but im pretty desperate for some non-isolation
(2:02:34 PM) bradass87:idk anymore
(2:04:29 PM) bradass87:im a source, not quite a volunteer
(2:05:38 PM) bradass87:i mean, im a high profile source… and i’ve developed a relationship with assange… but i dont know much more than what he tells me, which is very little
(2:05:58 PM) bradass87:it took me four months to confirm that the person i was communicating was in fact assange
(2:10:01 PM) [email protected]: how’d you do that?
(2:12:45 PM) bradass87:I gathered more info when i questioned him whenever he was being tailed in Sweden by State Department officials… i was trying to figure out who was following him… and why… and he was telling me stories of other times he’s been followed… and they matched up with the ones he’s said publicly
…
(2:19:37 PM) bradass87:i can’t believe what im telling you =L
(2:19:50 PM) bradass87:ive had too many chinks in my armor :’(
(2:20:52 PM) bradass87:im a broken soul =L
(2:21:22 PM) bradass87:i need to go eat, ill brb
(2:21:26 PM) [email protected]: *hug*
(2:21:39 PM) bradass87:thank you :’( it means a lot
(2:54:21 PM) bradass87:im sorry
(2:54:21 PM) [email protected]
(2:55:00 PM) bradass87:im just… ugh
(2:56:34 PM) bradass87:my family is non-supportive… my boyfriend ditched me without telling me… im losing my job… losing my career options… i dont have much more except for this laptop, some books, and a hell of a story
(2:57:25 PM) bradass87:…im honestly, scared
(2:57:32 PM) bradass87:and i have no-one i trust
(2:58:21 PM) bradass87:i need a lot of help…
(2:58:48 PM) bradass87:i dont know if i can rebuild from here…
(3:00:43 PM) [email protected]: you can always rebuild.
(3:01:03 PM) bradass87:yes, but i cant KEEP rebuilding all the damn time… im exhausted
(3:01:26 PM) bradass87:i didnt get into my bout with homelessness across the country in ‘06
(3:01:45 PM) bradass87:i drifted from oklahoma city, to tulsa, to chicago, and finally landed at my aunt’s house in DC
(3:02:29 PM) bradass87:im exhausted… in desperation to get somewhere in life… i joined the army… and that’s proven to be a disaster now
(3:02:49 PM) bradass87:i’ve done a lot of random stuff, that no-one knows about…
(3:03:09 PM) bradass87:its just such a disconnect between myself, and what i know… and what people see
(3:04:57 PM) bradass87:and now i’m quite possibly on the verge of being the most notorious “hacktivist” or whatever you want to call it… its all a big mess i’ve created… im sorry, adrian…
(3:05:51 PM) bradass87:im pouring my heart out to someone i’ve never met, and i dont exactly have a lot of proof of anything
(3:05:59 PM) bradass87:im shattered
(3:06:47 PM) bradass87:im so exhausted :’(
(3:07:10 PM) bradass87:im a real downer…
(3:11:13 PM) [email protected]: no apologies needed
(3:12:00 PM) bradass87:>gulpbradass87:i wish i could explain the pain
(3:12:39 PM) [email protected]: are you on Facebook?
(3:12:56 PM) [email protected]: As an aside, are you concerned about prosecution?
(3:13:02 PM) bradass87:sort of… you cant find me
…
(3:18:59 PM) [email protected]: remember, finding stuff is what I do. and curiosity is my game.
(3:19:08 PM) bradass87:i know
(3:19:23 PM) [email protected]: including your personal ad from 3 years ago.
(3:19:32 PM) bradass87:which one?
(3:19:50 PM) [email protected]: i closed the window; it wasn’t relevant
(3:20:13 PM) bradass87:oh… via bradass87… i dont know how that one got set up…
(3:20:14 PM) [email protected]: sadly, it lacked a photo
(3:20:33 PM) bradass87:its from some kind of weird fetish site…
(3:20:37 PM) bradass87:they wouldn’t let me delete it
(3:21:07 PM) bradass87:im pretty ghostly… interwebbies-wise
…
(3:28:10 PM) [email protected]: you’re kinda cute.
…
(3:36:07 PM) [email protected]: You already have my most permissive privacy settings.
(3:36:26 PM) bradass87:you can see all of my albums?
(3:38:39 PM) bradass87:we have two mutual friends, how interesting
(3:40:08 PM) bradass87:small world
(3:41:39 PM) bradass87:>sighbradass87:lauren your “ex” ?
(3:42:15 PM) bradass87:tyler watkins would be mine… fucking ditched me
(3:42:30 PM) bradass87:im still utterly flabberghasted
(3:43:13 PM) bradass87:i dont know… i cant seem to hold a relationship… i’ve got so much baggage
(3:45:04 PM) bradass87:im all mixed up
(3:46:14 PM) bradass87:lost a lot… in a short period of time
(3:48:20 PM) bradass87:im a mess, huh
(3:49:41 PM) [email protected]: i’m familiar with loss
(3:49:52 PM) [email protected]: lauren’s in AZ
…
(10:12:57 AM) [email protected]: are you baptist by any chance?
(10:13:34 AM) bradass87:raised catholic… never believed a word of it
(10:13:59 AM) bradass87:im godless… i guess i follow humanist values though
(10:14:15 AM) bradass87:have custom dogtags that say “Humanist”
(10:15:19 AM) bradass87:always been too intellectual, if not just plain queer, for religion
(10:15:48 AM) bradass87:why?
(10:17:15 AM) [email protected]: regional religions in the U.S. – incorrect hunch
(10:17:34 AM) bradass87:i suffered out there
(10:17:56 AM) bradass87:i was the only non-religous person in town
(10:18:17 AM) bradass87:more pews than people…
(10:18:37 AM) bradass87:i understand them though
(10:18:53 AM) bradass87:im not mean to them… they *really* don’t know
(10:19:39 AM) bradass87:i politely disagree… but they are the ones who get uncomfortable when i make, very politely, good leading points…
(10:20:48 AM) bradass87:(by leading points, i mean ask multiple questions, with obvious answers, then ask a question based on the answers from the previous questions that challenges their normal response to the same question)
(10:21:26 AM) bradass87:[excellent example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo]
(10:28:21 AM) bradass87:new yorker is running 10k word article on wl.org on 30 may, btw
…
(11:31:13 AM) bradass87:i dont know what im going to do now… =L
(11:31:13 AM) bradass87:well, wait… obviously
(11:31:17 AM) bradass87:i guess i could start electrolysis as soon im back in the states… even before im outprocessed
(11:36:12 AM) bradass87:still gonna be weird watching the world change on the macro scale, while my life changes on the micro
(11:36:12 AM) [email protected]
(11:36:12 AM) bradass87:never been good at the micro
…
(01:58:40 PM) bradass87:hi
(02:00:30 PM) [email protected]: hey
(02:00:37 PM) [email protected]: just woke up from a nap
(02:00:42 PM) bradass87:🙂
(02:00:58 PM) [email protected]: feel hung over, without any alcohol to blame for it
(02:01:10 PM) [email protected]: how’s stuff?
(02:01:14 PM) bradass87:haven’t had any alcohol since September
(02:01:24 PM) [email protected]: i don’t usually drink
(02:01:28 PM) bradass87:nor do i
(02:01:52 PM) bradass87:but i had a few drinks in September, since i knew i wasn’t going to have any for awhile
(02:02:05 PM) [email protected]: good enough reason.
(02:02:12 PM) bradass87:uhm, i was reduced in rank today
(02:03:23 PM) [email protected]: to what?
(02:03:27 PM) bradass87:received a “Company Grade Article 15? — a formality (they only reduced me in grade, and aren’t making me do “extra duty”) since they needed to punish me in some way
(02:03:36 PM) bradass87:PFC
(02:04:59 PM) bradass87:i punched a colleague in the face during an argument… (something I NEVER DO…!?) its whats sparked this whole saga
(02:06:24 PM) [email protected]: did they have it oming?
(02:06:33 PM) bradass87:yes
(02:06:44 PM) bradass87:as a result, i was referred (forced) to behavioral health… to evaluate me… as a result, my commander had access to all of my mental health files… ergo how they found out about my cross-dressing history, discomfort with my role in society, and the environment i’ve placed myself in
(02:07:03 PM) bradass87:it was a minor incident… but it brought attention to me
(02:07:46 PM) bradass87:the person kind of deserved it… but kind of didn’t… it wasn’t worth this mess at all
(02:08:14 PM) bradass87:(had a lot of high fives and “Go Mannings!”)
(02:08:31 PM) bradass87:not proud of it at all
(02:08:38 PM) [email protected]: These things happen.
(02:08:41 PM) bradass87:and very surprised
(02:08:52 PM) bradass87:im not a violent person
(02:09:05 PM) bradass87:(odd to hear from someone in the Army?)
(02:09:13 PM) [email protected]: neither am i. but i’ll be violent if i have to.
(02:09:58 PM) [email protected]: most people in the Army aren’t in specialties that involve directly servicing targets.
(02:10:14 PM) bradass87:im glad you realize that
(02:10:27 PM) bradass87:(forgot you dated a CI guy)
(02:11:16 PM) [email protected]: I make it my business to know as much as I can about relevant topics.
(02:11:43 PM) bradass87:indeed, a heavy curiosity
(02:11:51 PM) bradass87:find much more about me?
(02:12:13 PM) [email protected]: Only by talking to you 🙂
(02:12:27 PM) [email protected]: it’d be rude to deep search you.
(02:12:45 PM) bradass87:its something im used to
(02:12:58 PM) bradass87:i barely exist…
(02:13:07 PM) bradass87:because i anticipate interest
(02:13:15 PM) [email protected]: words and actions say more than records on paper
(02:13:29 PM) bradass87:>nodbradass87:gathering as many documents as possible re: my career
(02:14:12 PM) bradass87:trying to control the narrative
…
(03:03:38 PM) bradass87:iono, im not so paranoid… ive seen the way the system works, and the way the public reacts, and the way the PR people react… ive never felt threatened
(03:06:10 PM) bradass87:i dont know whats wrong with me…
(03:07:01 PM) bradass87:i just… couldnt let these things stay inside of the system… and inside of my head…
(03:07:26 PM) bradass87:i recognized the value of some things…
(03:07:33 PM) bradass87:knew what they meant… dug deeper
(03:07:53 PM) bradass87:i watched that video cold, for instance
(03:10:32 PM) bradass87:at first glance… it was just a bunch of guys getting shot up by a helicopter… no big deal… about two dozen more where that came from right… but something struck me as odd with the van thing… and also the fact it was being stored in a JAG officer’s directory… so i looked into it… eventually tracked down the date, and then the exact GPS co-ord… and i was like… ok, so thats what happened… cool… then i went to the regular internet… and it was still on my mind… so i typed into goog… the date, and the location… and then i see this http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/world/middleeast/13iraq.html
(03:11:07 PM) bradass87:i kept that in my mind for weeks… probably a month and a half… before i forwarded it to them
(03:11:54 PM) bradass87:then there was the Finkel book
(03:12:16 PM) bradass87:im almost certain he had a copy
(03:12:16 PM) [email protected]
(03:13:31 PM) bradass87:it was unreal… i mean, i’ve identified bodies before… its rare to do so, but usually its just some nobody
(03:13:48 PM) bradass87:it humanized the whole thing… re-sensitized me
(03:15:38 PM) bradass87:i dont know… im just, weird i guess
(03:15:49 PM) bradass87:i cant separate myself from others
(03:16:12 PM) bradass87:i feel connected to everybody… like they were distant family
(03:16:24 PM) bradass87:i… care?
(03:17:27 PM) bradass87:http://www.kxol.com.au/images/pale_blue_dot.jpg bradass87:i probably shouldn’t have read sagan, feynman, and so many intellectual authors last summer…
(03:21:11 PM) bradass87:>[email protected]: i get that
(03:22:45 PM) bradass87:get what… that connection?
(03:23:38 PM) [email protected]: yeah.
(03:24:08 PM) [email protected]: which is why i’m sad for the people i sometimes have to hurt.
(03:24:10 PM) bradass87:we’re human… and we’re killing ourselves… and no-one seems to see that… and it bothers me
(03:24:26 PM) bradass87:apathy
(03:25:28 PM) bradass87:apathy is far worse than the active participation
(03:26:23 PM) bradass87:>hugbradass87:http://vimeo.com/5081720 Elie Wiesel summed it up pretty well for me… though his story is much much more important that mine
(03:29:48 PM) bradass87:*than
(03:31:33 PM) bradass87:I prefer a painful truth over any blissful fantasy.
(03:31:48 PM) bradass87:s/a/the
(03:32:05 PM) [email protected]: *hugback*
(03:34:16 PM) bradass87::*
(03:35:44 PM) bradass87:i think ive been traumatized too much by reality, to care about consequences of shattering the fantasy
(03:36:18 PM) bradass87:im not brave, im weak
(03:39:00 PM) [email protected]: sometimes they’re the same thing
(03:40:33 PM) [email protected]: brb
(03:40:43 PM) bradass87:k
(03:52:34 PM) bradass87:like i think ive said before…. im not so much scared of getting caught and facing consequences at this point… as i am of being misunderstood, and never having the chance to live the life i wanted to…
(03:52:34 PM) [email protected]
(03:53:38 PM) bradass87:im way way way too easy to marginalize…
(03:55:52 PM) bradass87:i dont like this person that people see… no-one knows who i am inside
(04:24:21 PM) [email protected]: are you in the green zone? *random*
(04:26:02 PM) [email protected]: i know all about having a persona vs. a real person
(04:26:06 PM) [email protected]: [email protected]: yt?
…
(01:36:28 AM) bradass87:i had an hour session with my therapist
(01:36:40 AM) bradass87:i didnt say word for like 30 minutes
(01:36:47 AM) bradass87:i just sat there, and he took notes
(01:37:18 AM) bradass87:im an awkward patient
(01:38:13 AM) bradass87:its difficult to communicate with therapists
(01:38:27 AM) bradass87:i try to explain something, and they twist it around
(01:39:04 AM) bradass87:and then they ask why i dont want to say anything
(01:39:43 AM) bradass87:one of my friends is in the Democratic Primary for a South Dakota Senate seat… Angie Buhl… we played Guitar Hero together
(01:40:15 AM) bradass87:very very gay friendly… =)
(01:41:22 AM) bradass87:State Senate that is… [not federal]
(01:42:05 AM) bradass87:http://www.angiebuhl.com/
(01:42:36 AM) [email protected]: I gathered
(01:43:53 AM) bradass87:same circle of friends as [redacted]… he’s cute, but he’s a bottom… so we didn’t work out [redacted]
(01:44:40 AM) bradass87:slept with him a few times, but sex was awkward…
(01:44:50 AM) [email protected]: howso?
(01:45:04 AM) bradass87:two bottoms…
(01:45:40 AM) bradass87:so, yeah… we’re friends
(01:46:48 AM) bradass87:though, its been a year… and political friends can forget you exist in three news cycles
(01:47:19 AM) bradass87:kind of reinforces my cynicism
(01:47:55 AM) bradass87:i still have a little spark of a dream though… call me crazy…
(01:48:30 AM) bradass87:but, i’d like to insert myself into politics, as a technical person with real ideas…
(01:49:28 AM) bradass87:too many words in political spheres… too short of an attention span… too short of goals
(01:50:38 AM) bradass87:humanity can accomplish so much… but its like herding cats
(01:50:57 AM) bradass87:getting the smart people with ideas to cooperate, that is
(01:51:59 AM) bradass87:im probably suffering from depression
(01:51:59 AM) bradass87:={
(01:52:03 AM) bradass87:={
(01:52:06 AM) bradass87:=P
(01:52:15 AM) [email protected]: Who isn’t 🙁
(01:52:20 AM) bradass87:goddamn, i missed the “P” key twice
(01:52:27 AM) [email protected]: I’m supposedly bipolar.
(01:52:38 AM) bradass87:oh well, still not medicated
(01:53:00 AM) bradass87:i dont believe a third of the DSM-IV-TR
(01:53:58 AM) bradass87:so many Disorders that so many people fall into… it just seems like a method to categorize a person, medicate them, and make money from prescription medications
(01:54:04 AM) [email protected]: brb
(01:54:31 AM) bradass87:i’d like to meet a single person that wouldn’t fall into a Disorder in the DSM-IV-TR
(01:55:31 AM) bradass87:[I’m random, too]
(02:01:12 AM) [email protected]: no such animal
(02:02:25 AM) bradass87:indeed
(02:02:39 AM) bradass87:http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647441030
(02:03:10 AM) bradass87:amazing how the world works
(02:03:27 AM) bradass87:takes 6 degrees of separation to a whole new level
…
(01:42:28 PM) [email protected]: are you seeing anyone in the .mil?
(01:42:40 PM) bradass87:ew, no
(01:43:01 PM) bradass87:i dated once… having two paranoid people doesn’t work
(01:43:12 PM) [email protected]: my ex said CI was lousy with queers ;>
(01:43:18 PM) bradass87:i’ve had sex with .mil people… but overall its bad
(01:43:32 PM) bradass87:CI?
(01:43:37 PM) bradass87:why would CI be involved
(01:43:45 PM) [email protected]: my ex was 97B
(01:44:14 PM) bradass87:i forget it was probably pretty bad in the past
(01:44:33 PM) bradass87:DADT isnt really enforced
(01:44:56 PM) bradass87:top interrogator here has a civil union in NJ
(01:45:18 PM) bradass87:i punched a dyke in the phace…
(01:45:22 PM) [email protected]: lol
(01:45:43 PM) bradass87:half the S2 shop was at least bi
(01:45:57 PM) [email protected]: you know this personal-like? ; )
(01:46:05 PM) bradass87:it was all female
(01:46:10 PM) [email protected]: ah
(01:46:46 PM) bradass87:i got sick of these dykes and their drama… it was worse than “The L Word”…
…
(01:52:30 PM) bradass87:funny thing is… we transffered so much data on unmarked CDs…
(01:52:42 PM) bradass87:everyone did… videos… movies… music
(01:53:05 PM) bradass87:all out in the open
(01:53:53 PM) bradass87:bringing CDs too and from the networks was/is a common phenomeon
(01:54:14 PM) [email protected]: is that how you got the cables out?
(01:54:28 PM) bradass87:perhaps
(01:54:42 PM) bradass87:i would come in with music on a CD-RW
(01:55:21 PM) bradass87:labelled with something like “Lady Gaga”… erase the music… then write a compressed split file
(01:55:46 PM) bradass87:no-one suspected a thing
(01:55:48 PM) bradass87:=L kind of sad
(01:56:04 PM) [email protected]: and odds are, they never will
(01:56:07 PM) bradass87:i didnt even have to hide anything
(01:56:36 PM) [email protected]: from a professional perspective, i’m curious how the server they were on was insecure
(01:57:19 PM) bradass87:you had people working 14 hours a day… every single day… no weekends… no recreation…
(01:57:27 PM) bradass87:people stopped caring after 3 weeks
(01:57:44 PM) [email protected]: i mean, technically speaking
(01:57:51 PM) [email protected]: or was it physical
(01:57:52 PM) bradass87:>nodbradass87:there was no physical security
(01:58:18 PM) [email protected]: it was physical access, wasn’t it
(01:58:20 PM) [email protected]: hah
(01:58:33 PM) bradass87:it was there, but not really
(01:58:51 PM) bradass87:5 digit cipher lock… but you could knock and the door…
(01:58:55 PM) bradass87:*on
(01:59:15 PM) bradass87:weapons, but everyone has weapons
(02:00:12 PM) bradass87:everyone just sat at their workstations… watching music videos / car chases / buildings exploding… and writing more stuff to CD/DVD… the culture fed opportunities
(02:01:44 PM) bradass87:hardest part is arguably internet access… uploading any sensitive data over the open internet is a bad idea… since networks are monitored for any insurgent/terrorist/militia/criminal types
(02:01:52 PM) [email protected]: tor?
(02:02:13 PM) bradass87:tor + ssl + sftp
(02:02:33 PM) [email protected]: *nod*
(02:03:05 PM) [email protected]: not quite how i might do it, but good
(02:03:22 PM) bradass87:i even asked the NSA guy if he could find any suspicious activity coming out of local networks… he shrugged and said… “its not a priority”
…
(02:14:21 PM) bradass87:listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga’s Telephone while exfiltratrating possibly the largest data spillage in american history
(02:15:03 PM) bradass87:pretty simple, and unglamorous
(02:16:37 PM) bradass87:*exfiltrating
(02:17:56 PM) bradass87:weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis… a perfect storm
(02:19:03 PM) bradass87:>sighbradass87:sounds pretty bad huh?
(02:20:06 PM) [email protected]: kinda 😡
(02:20:25 PM) bradass87::L
(02:20:52 PM) [email protected]: i mean, for the .mil
(02:21:08 PM) bradass87:well, it SHOULD be better
(02:21:32 PM) bradass87:its sad
(02:22:47 PM) bradass87:i mean what if i were someone more malicious
(02:23:25 PM) bradass87:i could’ve sold to russia or china, and made bank?
(02:23:36 PM) [email protected]: why didn’t you?
(02:23:58 PM) bradass87:because it’s public data
(02:24:15 PM) [email protected]: i mean, the cables
(02:24:46 PM) bradass87:it belongs in the public domain
(02:25:15 PM) bradass87:information should be free
(02:25:39 PM) bradass87:it belongs in the public domain
(02:26:18 PM) bradass87:because another state would just take advantage of the information… try and get some edge
(02:26:55 PM) bradass87:if its out in the open… it should be a public good
(02:27:04 PM) bradass87:*do the
(02:27:23 PM) bradass87:rather than some slimy intel collector
(02:29:18 PM) bradass87:im crazy like that
…
(02:52:47 PM) bradass87:state dept fucked itself… placed volumes and volumes of information in a single spot, with no security
(02:53:28 PM) [email protected]: only the people you trust can fuck you – infowise ;>
(02:54:03 PM) bradass87:so anything published, and classified up to SECRET//NOFORN
(02:54:44 PM) [email protected]: in all seriousness, would you shoot if MP’s showed up? ;>
(02:55:04 PM) bradass87:why would i need to?
(02:55:18 PM) [email protected]: suicide by MP.
(02:55:34 PM) bradass87::L
(02:55:39 PM) bradass87:do i seem unhinged?
(02:56:04 PM) [email protected]: i mean, showed up – for you – if Julian were to slip up.
(02:56:46 PM) bradass87:he knows very little about me
(02:56:54 PM) bradass87:he takes source protection uber-seriously
(02:57:01 PM) bradass87:“lie to me” he says
(02:57:06 PM) [email protected]: Really. Interesting.
(02:57:34 PM) bradass87:he wont work with you if you reveal too much about yourself
(02:58:13 PM) [email protected]: why talk to me?
(02:58:47 PM) bradass87:because im isolated as fuck… my life is falling apart, and i dont have anyone to talk to
(02:59:02 PM) [email protected]: I’m flattered 😉
(02:59:09 PM) [email protected]: How is it falling apart?
(02:59:41 PM) bradass87:GID… discharge… family issuess… and possibility of transition in near future
(03:00:21 PM) bradass87:its all happening so quick for me… its overwhelming :’(
(03:00:35 PM) [email protected]: but you make a cute boy! ;>
(03:00:53 PM) bradass87:im not comfortable with myself
(03:01:06 PM) bradass87:im in an awkward state
(03:01:23 PM) [email protected]: i don’t understand, but i understand the idea, if that makes sense.
(03:01:39 PM) bradass87:and the weird part is… i love my job… i was very good at it… i wish this didnt have to happen like this
(03:01:48 PM) [email protected]: one of my ex’s is living as a girl in .au
(03:02:05 PM) bradass87:i dont understand it either
(03:04:05 PM) bradass87:its clearly an issue… i mean, i dont think its normal for people to spend this much time worrying about whether they’re behaving masculine enough, whether what they’re going to say is going to be perceived as “gay”… not to mention how i feel about the situation… for whatever reason, im not comfortable with myself… i mean, i behave and look like a male, but its not “me” =L
(03:04:34 PM) bradass87:its… odd
(03:04:40 PM) bradass87:or at least painful
(03:05:31 PM) bradass87:8 months ago, if you’d have asked me whether i wanted i would identify as female, i’d say you were crazy
(03:06:11 PM) bradass87:that started to slip very quickly, as the stresses continued and piled up
(03:06:48 PM) bradass87:i had about three breakdowns… successively worse, each one revealing more and more of my uncertainty and emotional insecurity
(03:07:57 PM) bradass87:now… i spend a lot of time thinking of transitioning… im now very familiar with the process… and have a rough plan of how to get portions of it to work
(03:10:34 PM) [email protected]: *nod*
(03:10:39 PM) [email protected]: *makes the bed*
(03:11:15 PM) bradass87:have you heard similar?
(03:11:22 PM) [email protected]: yes
(03:12:25 PM) bradass87:what did your ex say? if you dont mind me asking?
(03:14:15 PM) [email protected]: they felt uncomfortable in their own body, they hated their genitals, they didn’t like looking manly
(03:14:49 PM) bradass87:im uncomfortable with my role in society in particular…
(03:15:30 PM) bradass87:im not so uncomfortable with my genitalia, i mean, it works for me… but i dont like the masculine features in my appearance
(03:17:04 PM) bradass87:i went on leave in late january / early february… and… i cross-dressed, full on… wig, breastforms, dress, the works… i had crossdressed before… but i was public… for a few days
(03:17:33 PM) bradass87:i blended in….
(03:17:34 PM) bradass87:no-one knew
(03:18:06 PM) bradass87:the first thing i learned was that chivalry isn’t dead… men would walk out of their way and open doors for me… it was so weird
(03:18:19 PM) [email protected]: awww.
(03:18:51 PM) bradass87:i was referred to as “Ma’am” or “Miss” at places like Starbucks and McDonalds (hey, im not a fancy eater)
(03:19:35 PM) bradass87:i even took the Acela from DC to Boston… whatever compelled me to do that… idk… but i wanted to see my then-still-boyfriend
(03:20:01 PM) bradass87:i rode the train, dressed in a casual business outfit
(03:20:36 PM) bradass87:i really enjoyed the trip… minus the conductor
(03:21:06 PM) bradass87:as he asked for my ID, and clipped my ticket… he made a fuss
(03:21:24 PM) [email protected]: that sucks =z
(03:21:26 PM) bradass87:“Thank you, MISTER Manning…”
(03:21:31 PM) [email protected]: asshole
(03:21:35 PM) [email protected]: him, not you
(03:21:41 PM) bradass87:i know
(03:21:53 PM) bradass87:it was… an experience i wont forget…
(03:22:36 PM) bradass87:i mean… 99.9% of people coming from iraq and afghanistan want to come home, see their families, get drunk, get laid…
(03:22:56 PM) bradass87:i… wanted to try living as a woman, for whatever reason
(03:23:14 PM) bradass87:obviously, its important to me… since there were plenty of other things i could’ve done
(03:23:23 PM) [email protected]: Overall, how did you feel about your sojourn?
(03:25:50 PM) bradass87:idk, i just kind of blended in… i didn’t have to make an effort to do so, it just came naturally… instead of thinking all the time about how im perceived, being self conscious, i just let myself go… …well, i was still self-concious, but in a different way… i was worried about whether i looked pretty, whether my makeup was running, whether i spilled coffee on my (expensive) outfit… and to some extent whether i was passing…
(03:28:12 PM) bradass87:but i went to get gas… and bought cigarettes (i know, need to quit)… and the man asked to see my ID… so i did… and he about had a heart attack… he couldn’t hold himself back, he looked up and down twice… and gave me this look like… WTF, it is the same… handed it back to me… and tried to keep himself composed… so i wasn’t worried about whether i was passing as much, because he had no idea whatsoever
(03:28:55 PM) [email protected]: i smoze zero to five a day myself.
(03:29:44 PM) bradass87:but the point was, i guess my face is androgynous enough that i can pass with ease
(03:30:11 PM) bradass87:my prominent adams apple is the only issue i was concerned about
(03:30:26 PM) bradass87:so i wore a turtleneck, and had collar up with my coat
(03:30:29 PM) [email protected]: yeah, i’d say that re. the former.
(03:30:38 PM) [email protected]: which i find cute.
…
(03:56:16 PM) [email protected]: anyone I should talk to if you disappear one day?
(03:56:29 PM) bradass87:good question
(03:57:10 PM) bradass87:i gave ex-bf a list… some use he is now
(03:57:29 PM) [email protected]: I have more cred with the press 😡
(03:57:37 PM) bradass87:indeed…
(03:58:05 PM) bradass87:I’m a source for Chris Johnson of Washington Blade… i feed with my sub-sources
(03:59:03 PM) bradass87:not to mention objective personal experience of DADT… and how its actually working out “on the ground”
(03:59:11 PM) [email protected]: what about the sub-sources themselves? just out in the cold?
(03:59:38 PM) bradass87:yes, they’re politically tied
(04:00:50 PM) bradass87:so, they wouldn’t be in the cold, per se
(04:00:57 PM) bradass87:but i would disavow them
(04:00:58 PM) [email protected]: … everything else, but you don’t trust me with that? heh.
(04:01:19 PM) bradass87:these are good people, who just happen to be gay
(04:01:29 PM) bradass87:it would be wrong of me to confirm / deny
(04:01:46 PM) bradass87:check queerty.com (mostly accurate)
(04:01:50 PM) bradass87:😛
(04:01:52 PM) [email protected]: fair enough
(04:02:16 PM) bradass87:ask them, not me… i say
(04:02:46 PM) bradass87:(i keep my promises to my friends, believe it or not)
(04:03:15 PM) [email protected]: I can respect that.
(04:03:21 PM) [email protected]: And do.
(04:04:10 PM) bradass87:Just hang around the right bars at the right times in Dupont Circle… and you can meet them yourself, you wouldn’t need me =P
(04:04:26 PM) [email protected]: I have. Hung out there 😛
(04:04:42 PM) [email protected]: Any bars in particular?
(04:04:52 PM) bradass87:they keep freakin’ changing
(04:05:14 PM) [email protected]: heh
(04:05:16 PM) bradass87:changing names and locations… its been a different scene every time i go back to DC…
(04:05:38 PM) bradass87:and im only gone 4-6 months each time =[
(04:06:22 PM) bradass87:i usually give [redacted] a call if i need to know whats hot in town
(04:07:47 PM) bradass87:here’s some public advice: http://twitter.com/[redacted]/status/[redacted] =P
(04:08:08 PM) bradass87:[Tweet redacted]
(04:09:11 PM) bradass87:i was [redacted]’s first boyfriend after [redacted]
(04:09:28 PM) bradass87:i encouraged him to seek out relationships again”
(04:09:31 PM) bradass87:”
(04:10:04 PM) bradass87:now he’s engaged to his fiancee [redacted]
(04:10:32 PM) bradass87:(im a pretty connected guy for a ghost, i guess)
(04:12:01 PM) [email protected]: 🙂
(04:13:27 PM) bradass87:i guess in a way, im just getting started
(04:13:43 PM) bradass87:i mean… im not even 23 ye
(04:13:48 PM) bradass87:*yet
(04:19:02 PM) [email protected]: this is true
(04:22:03 PM) bradass87:i keep my DADT trail semi-secure
(04:22:11 PM) [email protected]: howso?
(04:22:17 PM) bradass87:i figure its plausible deniability
(04:22:43 PM) bradass87:for the more extreme stuff
(04:22:56 PM) [email protected]: …. howso?
(04:23:13 PM) bradass87:well, if investigated, it provides a huge number of red herrings
(04:23:57 PM) bradass87:politically sensitive… it would be a small domestic scandal
(04:25:33 PM) bradass87:one of my contacts is the Special Forces officer who was involved in the (awful) interrogation of John Walker Lindh
(04:26:07 PM) bradass87:he witnessed the death of his CIA colleagues
(04:26:23 PM) bradass87:he’s a hero… and he’s gay
(04:27:34 PM) bradass87:*capture and interrogation of
(04:28:13 PM) bradass87:i know, its all very complicated and difficult to believe, which is good for me
(04:28:56 PM) bradass87:but, i hope i can live a less ambiguous life soon… as i transition
(04:29:30 PM) [email protected]: I wish you a less ambiguous life as well.
(04:29:41 PM) bradass87:thank you
(04:29:57 PM) bradass87:i sincerely believe i deserve one 🙁
…
(06:08:53 PM) [email protected]: What’s your greatest fear?
(06:09:24 PM) bradass87:dying without ever truly living
(06:10:16 PM) bradass87:cliche, but honest
(06:10:33 PM) [email protected]: i keep forgetting you’re 22
(06:11:50 PM) [email protected]: i had my first /really/ ltr (more’n six months) at 22
(06:12:13 PM) [email protected]: They went on the run from the FBI /w me
(06:12:30 PM) [email protected]: that’s love/
(06:12:46 PM) [email protected]: Crazy as a shithouse rat, tho.
(06:16:09 PM) bradass87:lol
(06:16:21 PM) bradass87:i dont know if i can meet people who love me
(06:16:37 PM) bradass87:no-one ever sticks around long enough to know me
(06:16:45 PM) bradass87:those who do, become good friends…
(06:16:51 PM) bradass87:but thats not the same
(06:17:18 PM) bradass87:i just ended my first ltr
(06:17:30 PM) bradass87:so im probably still depressed
(06:17:45 PM) bradass87:(i dont know my own emotions that well)
(06:17:58 PM) bradass87:[repression is a bitch]
(06:19:08 PM) bradass87:i often get to know people intimately well
(06:19:14 PM) bradass87:but it doesn’t reflect
(06:24:29 PM) bradass87:ive seen far more than a 22 y/o should
(06:25:00 PM) [email protected]: so had I =z
McGullen
He’s very loose lipped.
missanthrope
Trans curious?
Now that’s one I’ve never heard before, lol.
JR
I know this is “unAmerican” to say, but I just want to take care of and protect this kid. I am not condoning what he did, but reading the transcripts has significantly changed my opinion of him and the situation–and about the military’s security protocols. I’m amazed nothing on this scale happened sooner.
Daniel Villarreal
@missanthrope: Yeah, I didn’t really know how to describe what Manning was going through in terms of his gender identity. It seemed like calling him transsexual and transgender was inaccurate or at least somewhat premature. And yet I didn’t want to call him confused because so many trans-phobic people use that very word to disparage genuine trans-folk. So… I dunno.
Jelder
I completely condone what he did and love him for it.
I would love to meet him, shake his hand, become a friend and possibly more. 😉 He’s extremely adorable and I’ve been interested in possibly dating / experimenting with MFT/FTM. I just want to hug him 🙁
Gay Veteran
He made his bed and now he has to lay in it.
It’s hard for me to feel any remorse for Pvt. Manning.
tab
I’d hardly describe Manning as just trans-curious:
They made it quite clear their goal was transition post-military, and were worried about being remembered as male were they executed or imprisoned. Additionally, the whole being discharged for GID thing, and it seems more than fair to say Manning was trans. It’s hardly new info and the more chatlogs we get the clearer it becomes. You don’t firmly state that your post mil plans are transition (and electrolysis to prep for it) if just trans-curious.
btw Daniel, thanks for how great you’ve been on the trans-related topics. I really appreciate how receptive you are to corrections. It’s been a welcome change from how I remember Queerty handling such things before, and has made me an avid reader (and reposter) of Queerty.
Bob
Wow, that Adrian kid is a total prick. This kid needed someone to vent too and he just took advantage of the situation. As a Libertarian, I can say that this kid is a defender of liberty. We are no better than Iran or Libya if we can imprison someone for liberating the truth. We own the government not the other way around.
Amanda
@JR: I feel the same way… he was so young when this happened, and it looks like he was pretty vulnerable too. I hope he’s doing ok now.
tab
@Sean: Whether you want to believe it or not, trans people (particularly those not yet visibly transitioning) go through a lot of the same things the orientation-based community goes through. Many may even temporarily identify as G/L/B during the process of coming to grips with it. They experience the same shit as everyone else. Post transition it can be even worse- try lecturing a basher on the difference as they scream “faggot” and attack GLB and T just the same. Plenty of GLB folk don’t meet the societal gender standards too and face discrimination for that. Point being, it’s the same damn hate and we all get to go through it, and don’t think some bigot gives two shits about the identity politics cause in the end we’re still a bunch of “fucking faggots” to them.
seaguy
Some will call him a traitor that is their right as we live in a free country. I think he was a naive young gay man who was in the army where he felt alone and was vulnerable and willing to do things to impress others to try and win their friendship. Julian Assange and the others took advantage of him by getting him to save all the data and secrets and then pass it to them like he did. To me Adrian Lamois also a traitor or at the very least a backstabbing snitch for turning Manning in like he did. I doubt as an ex hacker he would have appreciated being turned in if the tables were turned.
Manning made a stupid mistake when he passed along the data to Assange but I don’t think he deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life. He’s kind of hot so I would help him get over wanting to be a trans girl real quick. LOL
Riker
Assuming everything in these transcripts is true, I think it will completely change lots of people’s opinions of Pfc. Manning. He didn’t do what he allegedly did because he wanted to betray his country or et revenge for DADT, he allegedly did it because he was a scared, vulnerable kid who was horrified by what was going on (as should we all be), and he reacted out of fear and his sense of morality to try and expose it. He isn’t some superhuman political activist spy, he seems to have just wanted to make things better by telling people the terrible things that were going on.
Adrian Lamo is a slimeball for preying on him in his vulnerable state, and even flirting to gain his trust. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lamo took advantage of this poor kid and manipulated him into actually leaking the cables.
Bradley, I know you’ll probably never read this, but there are people on the outside that love and care about you. I honestly hope that you find peace someday.
igoape
I am a gay veteran. I served prior to DADT. The final two questions on my application were “Are you attracted to members of your own sex?” And, “Do you consider yourself gay?” Maybe it was just me but I felt it took forever to check no to both boxes with my recruiter sitting across the desk from me.In the 20 years since, gay people have fought for and won the right to serve openly.
The fact that one of our own committed this act of treason gives a black eye to all the gay men and women who have fought to get us where we are now. I took a vow to “protect and serve” my country. Manning did also. He broke his vow. If anything he should have held himself up to an even higher standard of being a gay service member. The fact that he was sad,confused and suffered from gender issues in no way changes the fact that he broke the law. He committed treason. This is punishable by death which he deserves but won’t get. Put him away for life. Let him rot. He is going to learn the hard way that being gay in jail is no piece of cake either.
Sean
@tab: Your position is that some bigoted and ignorant straight people don’t know the difference b/t gay and trans, and that, in their ignorance, they lump the two together. And you think this is an argument in favor of LGBT? Wrong. It is an argument against. We don’t enshrine the views of bigots and change our name to fit them, we challenge them and correct them. A lot of the same bigots don’t see any difference b/t gays and pedophiles. Should we add a “P” to our fake community as well?
Gay Veteran
@Riker: Why are you making him into a victim? Manning didn’t experience anything that a ton of other soldiers hadn’t already seen. And what was he trying to make better? What big “War Crime’ did he blow the whistle on?
Manning was unhappy in the military and decided to turn over classified cables to that piece of shit Julian Assange.
He’s not a freaking hero, he’s the complete opposite of a hero.
Also to the guys who claim all Americans should have access to these documents.. I call BS. We live in a society where celebrities can’t read a book without the whole world knowing about it.. you expect to make these secret documents public.. How about you go ahead and sign my death certificate and every other soldier who has to go and fight this god forsaken war. Sign the death certificate to all of our informants too.
I GET IT you hate war, so do I but let’s be realistic.. Let’s realize it’s not safe for this U.S. or the military to make all military documents public domain.
tab
@Sean: That is not my position. My position can be plainly read and does not require your intentional misinterpreting.
People going through common issues are better able to address them with numbers- as a large group we are capable of working together to counter the myths and prejudices for the whole group. We are able to provide the distinctions that would otherwise be muddied by the hatemonger’s attempts to lump us all together. We can provide support for eachother better than those that don’t have to deal with it because we know how it feels.
Your pedophile comparison is deeply flawed and I’m willing to bet as an intelligent person you know that it is too. There is a fundamental difference between a myth perpetuated against the LGBT community and the realities of the common experiences we go through. The myth of the LGBT community being pedophiles does not stop at gay men, it’s levied against trans folk and lesbians as well. And it’s just that- a myth. Whereas the common experiences of violence are cold hard fact. The common experiences of the coming out process- fact. And yes, the exact same bigotry from those ignorant of our differences is fact as well.
So no, it’s not about lumping us all together because bigots can’t tell the difference. It IS about pooling our resources so we can fight the misconceptions. It is about pooling our resources so that we can deal with high-risk behaviour that affects us all.
Jeffree
Just reading about how Lamo built “trust” with Manning made my skin crawl, especially since Bradley was obviously dealing with so many overwhelming emotions / thoughts he couldn’t verbalize elsewhere.
Manning has yet to have his day in court, so until *all* the evidence is reviewed and a verdict is reached, judging him from our keypads is all just idle speculation.
@Riker: +1 on everything you said above. You’ve been following this story for a long time & I respect your opinions about it. I hope Bradley will see what you wrote.
@tab: Great jôb dealing so clearly & directly with the trans~ issues raised by other commenters. Thanks for shedding light on what Manning’s likely been dealing with in terms of exploring gender ID — probably without anyone knowedgeable to discuss it with.
Jeffree
Arrrrgh— Moderation has struck me yet again. Very frustrating to waste 15 minutes & see the comment disappear into the vapors…..
Anyway, +1 to @Riker and @tab!
Riker
@Gay Veteran: Have you seen the “collateral murder” video? That’s what Pfc. Manning allegedly saw which started the whole thing. I watched the entire footage, and I was sick to my stomach that people could do things like this, have a JAG officer know about it, and still not even have a formal reprimand.
Other crimes revealed include the State Department violating US law and the UN Charter by spying on other UN delegates…US giving aid money to known thieves and corrupt officials…bribery…illegal raids in Pakistanian territory…attacks that killed hundreds of civilians with no real objective gain…coverups of massive corruption in the Afghanistanian and Iraqi police forces and governments, from common policemen to the Prime Minister himself…. The list goes on and on, and there’s more just waiting to be discovered.
The way I see it, people have a right to know what there government is up to. Quoting from the US Declaration of Independence “…to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”. How can the people give informed consent if they don’t know what they’re consenting to? And if the governed aren’t giving their informed consent, then from where does their authority come?
I used to think very lowly of Pfc. Manning, but now that I’ve looked deeper into it I see that he wasn’t (allegedly) doing it for fame or glory, but rather he was just trying to help. He’s just a poor unfortunate tortured soul who allegedly acted rash in a misguided attempt to do the right thing.
Jaroslaw
#19 Riker – thanks for sticking up for Pvt. Manning. Well put. “Love my country right or wrong” is NOT loyalty, it is blind stupidity. When one sees something dreadfully wrong, one is SUPPOSED to challenge the system. That is the highest form of patriotism, to help make your country a better place, NOT to go along with anything and everything like a sheep.
#17 – tab – I get where you’re coming from about pooling resources to fight hate etc. but YOU said bigots don’t see the difference “we’re all a bunch of faggots to them.” So Sean’s pedophile comparison is absolutely valid. We don’t need to redefine ourselves according to the bigot’s belief system.
Gay Veteran
@Riker: Sorry that collateral video is called war that’s what happens when a country is at war.. we don’t have tea parties and play battleship. Trust me other soldiers have seen worse.
I understand wanting some things made public but it just can’t work like that. If you don’t like how our government handles thing then the place to make an impact is at the ballot box… it’s NOT by stealing documents and selling them to the highest bidder.
Manning was tortured like every other GLB soldier has been tortured but instead of finishing up his contract or getting out of his contract early the legal way, he decided to commit a crime and now he’s paying the ultimate price.
I don’t feel sorry for him.
Andy
@Gay Veteran: “Sorry that collateral video is called war that’s what happens when a country is at war.” Pathetic justification, Al Qaeda would say the same about 9/11.
Nick
In those transcripts, Adrian Lamo comes across as sexy in lowlife kind of way.
Riker
@Gay Veteran: Actually, we aren’t currently at war. The Authorization for the Use of Military Force was not a constitutional declaration of war. Instead, it granted President Bush (and later Obama) the power to use military force “as he determines to be necessary and appropriate” in order to “defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq”. I think that everyone can see Iraq no longer poses a threat to the US, and so these sort of random killings shouldn’t be happening. Especially disgusting was the fact that they killed two war journalists, and with such careless abandon. Most of the people in that group were unarmed, and all of them were just walking calmly. Then, they shot at and killed people in a van who were trying to take the wounded journalists to safety and get them medical attention. Later, they shot two Hellfire missiles, destroying a multi-family apartment building with many unarmed people inside, just because they saw a few suspected insurgents go inside.
The thing that struck me the most was the carefree attitude of the soldiers responsible. It was almost like they were playing a video game; they seemed to be enjoying themselves. Killing should never be that easy, especially when unarmed innocent civilians are involved and the suspected insurgents pose no threat to you. I love my country, but some of the people in it are seriously fucked up.
Riker
@Nick: He comes across as slimy. He was just flirting with Brad to try and earn his trust and keep him talking. Absolutely sickening.
Nick
I like bad boys, what can I say?
Sarah
@Gay Veteran: ” Why are you making him into a victim? Manning didn’t experience anything that a ton of other soldiers hadn’t already seen. And what was he trying to make better? What big “War Crime’ did he blow the whistle on?”
A US aircraft murdering civilians (including a reuters employee) on-camera? Years of US military outsourcing brutal torture to Saddam-era interrogating troops? A consistent tendency to cover up civilian deaths by US military and mercenary companies like Blackwater/Xe?
Bradley Manning is one of the few genuine heroes produced by the current wars.
Sarah
@Gay Veteran: “I understand wanting some things made public but it just can’t work like that. If you don’t like how our government handles thing then the place to make an impact is at the ballot box… it’s NOT by stealing documents and selling them to the highest bidder.”
LMAO…electing Dems instead of Republicans definitely changed the course of things! It’s not like the “anti-war” party EXPANDED the war in Afghanistan, EXPANDED drone strikes in Pakistan, EXPANDED drone strikes in Yemen, authorized assassination of US citizens living abroad, etc…
Keep making an impact at that ballot box, lol
Sarah
There are literally people here who think that the Democrats give a shit about military abuses and the abuse of executive authority. And that voting for the blue team instead of the red team will make a meaningful impact on US interventionism. LOL
How’s that Libya bombing going? Who do we elect to stop that one? The guy who started it or the party that thinks we haven’t gone far enough?
Dieks
THIS… may be a “major shock” to those in the LGBTQRXY and Z” “community”.
But ***NEWS BREAK*** there are actual narcissists IN the “community”.
Manning has “issues” in small letters.
That the US Dept. of Military Recruitment worries more about the “gay” issues and “circle jerks” is hysterical to me.
In my opinion [[that means as much as bandwidth]]:
Manning’s bi-polar “questioning” about every aspect of Mannings personality points to mental instability.
Manning was an abused child?
Manning is gay?
Manning is born in the wrong body?
Manning is straight?
Manning will be suddenly missing a freaking limb and/or hearing/eye sight and finding out they are a person of color….
Manning has EVERYTHING covered.
Manning is a “victim” of everything.
Manning isn’t the “Man”… he is just a “victim” of it.
Manning needs to be protected from Manning.
Lefty
Well said, Riker. A voice of reason. 🙂
xxx
Jaroslaw
Sarah – I have read a lot about this and there is so much more to this story than you have heard on the mainstream media. Who proved Bradley Manning sold these documents to the highest bidder? This is the first I’ve heard of that.
You and the Gay Veteran and other blind faith “patriots” sound like your mind was made up before the story was even reported in detail. So, now you guys believe EVERYTHING the government tells you, everything the media reports? Really?
If he is guilty as charged, I’ll change my mind. You need to let him be innocent until proven guilty.
Oh, and what other soldiers saw, and how much they suffered – this is not a contest, nor does that determine who is worthy of justice. And yes, Gay Veteran, as much as possible needs to be public. Otherwise, everything becomes top secret and that almost always leads to trouble.
Alan
People called Daniel Ellsberg a traitor too for the Pentagon Papers, but they revealed the long stream of lies that our government fed the public about Vietnam. I have yet to see any evidence of how these leaks have helped kill American soldiers. They have embarrassed the U.S. government by showing how our government officials lie and deceive the public, but they were not nuclear passcodes or base designs, just diplomatic cables. Manning should be freed and at best deserves a general discharge.
As to all the flag-waving on here, I’ll just recall Samuel Johnson’s quote about patriotism being the last refuge of a scoundrel. Hypernationalism is a virus that has led this country to ruin.
Sean
@Sean: Shut up. Even if you were right, attacking trans people will not help in the slightest- I am ashamed to share my name with you.
I kind of feel sorry for him. I’m not trans myself, but we all know what it feels like to be out of place, whether in our own skin, or in society.
I think Bradley was in a bad situation and he needed help. I want to agree with the wikileaks, but I don’t think manning was the right guy for it, and feel it was irresponsible to use him to get the secrets.
missanthrope
@Daniel Villarreal:
“Yeah, I didn’t really know how to describe what Manning was going through in terms of his gender identity.”
I can get what you mean, if I were writing it I would judge it pre-mature also, I don’t think the trans community has come up with a good term with it also, the closest I’ve heard to a term that doesn’t sound icky or strange is “gender questioning”.
bob
The only reason these logs are in the news is because they’re inadmissible in court. I don’t believe a word in them. The whole thing reeks of psyops.
Gay Veteran
@Andy: It’s not pathetic, it’s realistic/honest.
Alan
If you’re going to justify collateral damage (a term itself loaded with numerous problems) then no one can complain about contractors being killed in Iraq, since that is just as much collateral damage. Then again, doesn’t that mean that those killed at the Pentagon on 9/11 were collateral damage too, given that it is a military target? It cuts both ways.
Gay Veteran
@Alan: If you’re talking to me.. I’m not condoning or justifying collateral damage I’m saying it’s a reality of war and if you don’t want such things to happen: go protest, go vote, etc. Don’t commit a crime by stealing government documents and releasing them to the public.
As far as the Pentagon goes I think it’s safe to say that was a terrorist attack we were not at war(or whatever you want to call it) with the Taliban or Al Qaeda.. I don’t want to dwell on this because it’s a very sensitive issue for some people.
But let me be clear, I’m not condoning collateral damage. I’m also not condemning those soldiers who were involved in that particular incident because I don’t know what they thought they saw.. I don’t know what’s in their heart.
Collateral Damage is a sad reality of war.
My opinion on Manning stands.. if he wanted to expose wrong doing he could have done that without committing a crime and throwing his life away.
Jaroslaw
#39 – and how does he expose wrongdoing without going public? Also, re-read #33.
Gay Veteran
@Jaroslaw: Manning could have wrote a book or made a documentary, He could have been an activist for his cause.
And I don’t need re-read #33
Gay Veteran
@Gay Veteran: *need to
Jaroslaw
NO you don’t need to read #33 again – you can keep your head in the sand and keep on waving the flag.
You must be delusional – how would writing a book or producing a documentary accomplish anything timely or practical? For those who think he did what he did for money or whatever, would REALLY question his motives if he wrote a book.
Well, I was right about one thing – doesn’t matter what the facts are, or that there may be a lot more to this story than you know about – your mind is made up.
Gay Veteran
@Jaroslaw: No I’m not delusional and there’s no flag waving.
You’re right my mind is made up.. Manning did something illegal and there is nothing that could be said to justify it. He didn’t blow the whistle on anything major because as far as I know the war is still going strong, the U.S. government is still going strong. No war crimes being tried.
Riker
@Gay Veteran: There mat not be any crimes being tried but that doesn’t mean they weren’t exposed. Have you read any of the more notable telegrams? Some of them even implicate Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in violating US and international law.
Alan
And bombing a pharmaceutical factory, thus depriving an impoverished country of vital drugs, isn’t terrorism? Or an embargo that kills over 1 million children by denying medical supplies and other humanitarian aid? When individuals do it is “terrorism,” when nations do it, they call is “national security.” Yet the talking heads on the news scream for Manning’s head, when didn’t contribute to a single death. What utter rot.
Alan
When “he” didn’t, excuse me.
Alan
I’m also aware that collateral damage is a reality of war, but don’t be surprised when terrorist actions happen in response. The Israelis have yet to learn that lesson, and we haven’t either. You sow the seeds, you reap the whirlwind.
Tim Hothersall
@Jaroslaw: While I will not change my mind even if he is guilty because I believe that they army failed in their duty of care to Bradley, I have to commend you on your comment as until now, it is the only comment on this page that is actually sensible.
@gay veteran:
Bradley was in the DU in 2007 but instead of discharging him they recycled him. A fellow soldier who was in there with him said:
“Low flying planes could have seen that this kid wasn’t suitable; I do not understand the justification or what excuses they had to keep him around; I mean, he was a wreck, he was a complete wreck. And this is for a boy who’s pissing his pants and curled up in a foetal position on his bunk and constantly, screaming.”
Coupled with the fact that he had 3 nervous breakdowns between September 2009 and May 2010, this clearly demonstrates the catastrophic failure of the army to provide a duty of care to Bradley.
Sean
@tab:
Your first comment made no mention of pooling resources and your attempt to slither away from your first dishonest attempt at defending the lie of LGBT is duly noted.
As for your second attempt to defend this deceitful creation, no, it isn’t about “pooling resources”. First, if it were about that, I can’t think of a worse choice for a pool than the “trans” community, which is small and has virtually no resources to contribute, but which comes with an endless list of demands on our resources.
Second, even assuming it were about pooling resources and even if we didn’t care that the “trans” community has little to contribute, that still wouldn’t justify renaming gays and lesbians and their civil rights movement. We pool resources with the Democrats, with unions, and with the women’s movement to name just a few. We don’t alter our identity or our mission as a result.
The creation of LGBT was never about a simple political alliance or a resource pool. It was and is a transjacking of a movement and an identity of a people. It never should have happened in the first place, but since it did, it is now up to us to make it right.
Jaroslaw
Thanks Tim! Which specific comment are you referring to? You didn’t like comment 33 that talked about exposing the Pentagon papers or almost all of what Riker says?
I am very sad to learn Mr. Manning had all those problems and the Army didn’t do anything to care for him, but also sad: I’m not surprised.
Bailey
Sickening to read this. Manning is a disturbed individual. A gutless coward who wanted to cause mayhem as a way of working out his tranny “issues” but who didn’t want to take responsibility. A fiend who made a solemn pledge to keep a confidence, but then violated that confidence in order to feel good about him/herself.
And worst of all, the tgirl doesn’t even know what he released. 99.9% of what has been released has absolutely nothing to do with the conduct of any war or any alleged wrongdoing by the US. He says himself that he couldn’t read it all. He just let it all out, exposing god knows how many people to injury or death, and undermining diplomacy throughout the world. If nations can’t conduct diplomacy, the alternative is force. Manning has made diplomacy harder, and thus has made force and violence more palatable as a means of achieving political objectives. Maybe we can get a study done of how many people will die as the result of this freak’s GID.
And after all of that, all this snake cares about is him/herself. I hope the military ties him to a stake out in the desert and lets him bake. If he gets a firing squad, the military should give gay soldiers first crack at serving on the squad, since they were all smeared with the conduct of this .
Laughriotgirl
@Sean: #50
How i it that so many of you gay guys get your history and the realities of politics so wrong so often?
Trans people were included (by being “gayed up”) it the first move to legitimize and normalize gay people. The use of “third gender” etc. populations to some how prove that gays existed in all places and times and the weird contention that homosexuality was linked to some spiritual awareness (“Another Mother Tongue” – Gahan).
It is only because of the delisting of homosexuality that Gender Identity Disorder was even listed in the DSM. Prior to the late 70’s early 80’s being trans was diagnosed and treated as a physical medical condition.
Part of the reason the LG renamed to include the B and T was because Bi and Trans people were starting to call out the LG orgs for inflating crime and unemployment statistics by using Bi and trans (mostly women) as gay men and lesbians and not actually including us in the laws our numbers and testimonies helped pass.
The LG movement is full of using trans people to further its own agenda. If anything, the inclusion of trans people in your movement has provided a useful tool in passing laws that only benefit you. Stalling our own movement that was ticking along just fine since the late 1950’s with legislative wins in 47 states because all trans people have some connection to the L/G by virtue of moving into or out of the community.
I do agree, the merger of LGB and T was a huge mistake. I just find it laughable that so many gay men feel put out when trans people get tired of being used and then ignored by the LGB and utterly fail to pay attention to history and the movement’s dynamics. Seriously, you have nothing to show for the LGBT merger but a greater number of wins because trans people were duped into allowing the LGB in WI,HI,MA, NY, NH, MD, VT, CT etc to pass lg-only laws by trading in trans protections.
I think the LGB should split… but I also think trans women need to take our stuff back. I doub’t most gay men will be willing to do the right thing there…
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Laughriotgirl: Straight people don’t own transsexuality. You talk about it like there are no gay or bi transsexuals, and maybe you don’t want to think there are. You’re not the only tranny who does.
Jaroslaw
Laughriotgirl – you speak with a lot of authority – care to cite some statistics on “how well the Tranny movement” was doing before the L & G absorbed the Bi & Tran labels? Just because the mainstream media didn’t cover Trans in the 70s & 80S and onward, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist, I never heard of it at that time; but I’m willing to be enlightened.
Sean
@Laughriotgirl: You suffer from more than GID, my friend. You are delusional. You think that being associated with trannies is politically helpful to gays, lesbians and bis? Insane. There is a reason Congress would have passed ENDA w/o tranny coveage but not with it. There is a reason that anti-gay forces have tried to defeat gay rights ordinances by ignoring the gay part and focusing on the tranny bathroom part.
You think you were doing well before the invention of LGBT? Fine. You’re nuts, but whatever you want to believe is fine w/ me just so long as we end this forced sham marriage ASAP. Go, take your “stuff” whatever that may be, but just go. And please, take your hero Bradley Manning with you too. We LGBs will muddle along just fine w/o an extraneous, heterosexual group attached to us.
And don’t try to pretend that this has anything to do with bisexuals. Bisexuals are defined by their sexual orientation. Bisexuals are only bisexual because they are, to one degree or another, homosexually oriented. Thus, there is absolutely no doubt that bisexuals are in the same family as gays and lesbians. (And may I just say that it is an honor to be associated with them. I love bi people and wish the whole world were bi. It would be a better place.)
This is all about a small group of tranny activists who realized that when they were allies of gays, the gays could decide when and whether to help. But if they could concoct a new singular “community” in which they were a member, they would have the right to demand that the gays spend their time, money and political capital on their issues. It is to our disgrace that we fell for this obvious scam.
Laughriotgirl
@Jaroslaw: The first legal recognition of transsexuals is the Illinois law that allows for birth record changes. This was established in 1958 (with some evidence that the state policy was actually correcting birth records as early as 1955). There are only 3 states that will not allow trans people to change birth certificates and all states (except maybe TN’s newly passed law that also negated city-level job and housing protections) will allow for a change in sex markers on state IDs. Most of this was done before the 1980’s. The more closely related the LGB and T became as a political entity, the less able trans people were to get the most fundamental protections. Perhaps the reason you weren’t aware of these wins (all through the legislature) is because we weren’t letting the LGB get in the way and direct our message and set the priorities.
@Abirdwillingtobeitself – I clearly noted that there are LGB trans people, I also noted that the most compelling reason for the association of LGBT is that most trans people move into or out of the LGB, so there are obviously shared relationships and history.
@Sean – ENDA had more supporters with trans inclusion. 2007, the bill may have passed without trans inclusion, but it was never voted on and would not have been signed…
Not all trans people are heterosexual, but you know, silly things like facts and reality. As far as trannys being useful to homos.. take a look at NY in 2002… how was the SONDA passed? NH in 2009 passed marriage while on the same day unanimously defeating job protections for trans people. Seems like using trans people to bargain for gay-only stuff has been a working option for some time now, thus a useful tactic and a benefit.
The disgrace is that trans people went along with letting LGB groups parade our dead in front of state lawmakers in MA only to have Gender Identity removed from the hate crime law at the last minute. The disgrace is allowing GL academics to use cultures that embraced gender diversity in early bids for legitimacy. (Gay American History, Gay Book of Days, Another Mother Tongue, pretty much any “gay history” book).
I think a separation is perfect. You just need to go on and get rid of all the laws on the books that only cover sexual orientation and get them repealed and win them with out using the statistics and stories of trans people to do it.
Now, I’m curious how the LGB has benefited the T – what places (except the ENDA that wouldn’t have become a law) did gays sacrifice anything so that trans-specific issues could pass? Heck, I’ll even make it easier – name any place at the state-level where passing legislation was delayed because of trans inclusion.
And.. please… you wanna talk about bathrooms? It is a courtesy trans people are doing to gay men by NOT bringing up who actually has a history of inappropriate behaviors in the T-Room.
Marvin
@JR. Totally. He made terrible mistakes, but who didn’t at 22? And this kid was so confused and isolated. I wish I could just rewind the tape for him and get him some real support. And, for godssake, keep him from joining the Army, something for which he was in no way stable enough.
Jaroslaw
#57 LRG – I hardly think 1955 was a bastion of tolerance since Iowa and other places were passing ‘sexual psychopath’ laws in the wake of murdered children and Gay men in particular were being institutionalized for mental illness (which to their credit, was thought to be more humane than prison but I don’t think the Gay residents saw much of a difference since probably none of them were mentally ill).
To explain what the laws you refer to probably were doing, I point to a PFLAG meeting I went to a couple years ago. They had a representative from one of the leading hospitals there. Often babies are born with vestiges of both sex organs, apparently unbeknownst to the general public. The doctors/parents decide which sex the child should be and then later in life a boy/man feels he is a girl/woman and vice versa. Not saying this explains all trannys, but to pretend 1955 had the same morals and mores that we do now is totally preprosterous.
Jaroslaw
Or even more misleading – to pretend a ‘tranny lobby’ had anything to do with 1955 is even more dishonest. Otherwise, provide proof. Not just statements.
Laughriotgirl
@Jaroslaw: And what would you accept as proof? You know that laws don’t just appear on the books by magic… right? Individuals express a need, get sponsorship for laws, have hearings, and then vote. Are you doubting the year? When do you thi8nk this happened? Does it bother you that a group you can’t even refer to without a dismissive term was actually doing things to make their lives easier at a point when “the homo lobby” consisted of people to closeted to even sign their real names to petitions?
Part of what seems interesting to me, is actually the fact these laws were passed beginning well before Stonewall. In places like LA, UT, NC, AL, GA. I’m also curious what the mental health policies regarding homos has to do with trans people seeking remedy with their state governments.
Part of accepting that LGBT is not good for either group is admitting to the realities of history. Are you willing to really do that, or do you just want to fuss about trans people?
Gravietraine
There seem to be a lot of “concern trolls” here who are probably straight people wanting to cause turmoil and gay people to argue with one another. Please don’t feed the (concern) trolls.
FWIW, the whole gay rights movement began in 1969 with a raid on the Stonewall Inn, which was a “tranny” bar. It’s important to remember that trannies helped launch the LGBT movement.
Another thing to remember is that the Wikileaks memos so angered the Tunisian public that it sparked the liberal democratic movement there, and indirectly the whole Arab Spring. I’m not happy with the fact that these memos were leaked, but I only want to say that there are unintended consequences all the way around.