Nine Methodist pastors in Michigan may face a church trial and for attending a same-sex wedding.
It all started when Benjamin Hutchison, Senior Pastor at Cassopolis United Methodist Church in Cassopolis, MI, married his long-time partner, Monty. He was forced to resign from his job for “violating church law,” which forbids pastors from marrying someone of the same gender.
Thirty pastors attended Hutchinson’s wedding with 15 joining together to officially pronounce Hutchison and his partner “husband and husband.” Of those 15, nine are now being threatened with disciplinary action by the district bishop.
Related: Pastor Single-Handedly Saves Church. Oh, He’s Gay? He’s Fired!
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Michael Tupper was one of the pastors who officiated the wedding. He also signed the men’s marriage certificate. He said he did so to protest the church’s stance.
“I want to highlight the injustice, at the same time to witness to our inclusive God who does welcome all people and welcomes them whether they are gay or straight,” Tupper told the Kalamazoo Gazette/MLive.com. “It’s just another opportunity to celebrate and witness to our inclusive God.”
Related: Another Methodist Minister Facing Charges For Performing A Same-Sex Wedding
BlueDude
I do hope this is widely publicized, particularly to address the issue of inclusiveness of all people in Christ’s Gospel teachings. Why is it that so many “christian” clergy miss that? When the pews all stand empty, I guess they’ll all ask “what happened”?
Jon Andrews
WTF cant these People stop hating???
Spike
@Jon Andrews: They got nothing else to do.
Dakotahgeo
@BlueDude: You are spot on the mark, BD! Especially your label of “christian” is soooo correct! These shit heads are not Christian by a stretch of the imagination. christians, yes, but better known in Christian churches as wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Satan’s people, they are… and so easily led!
George M Melby, M.Div. Pastor/Hospice-Hospital Chaplain.
@Jon Andrews: @Spike: Thank you also. Spot on the mark!
barkomatic
Michigan is becoming the South of the North. Nevertheless, I’m glad to see these brave Pastors standing up against their church.
Tony Chaplinski
another fine example of christian love and forgiveness
Bauhaus
Many who call themselves Christians, hate Christianity. Love, forgiveness, not judging, helping the poor and less fortunate, turning the other cheek: that’s all hippie liberal bullshit to those folks.
Dakotahgeo
@Bauhaus: As I’ve stated before, these so-called christians are NOT Christians in any sense of the word. My former remarks:
“These shit heads are not Christian by a stretch of the imagination. christians, yes, but better known in Christian churches as wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Satan’s people, they are… and so easily led!”
Berkleyguy
Are they really going to risk having to fire nine more pastors? There are not enough pastors to fill United Methodist Church pulpits as it is.
aliengod
@Jon Andrews: I don’t think they hate us. They just don’t understand. You’ve got to remember that most of these people were raised their entire lives to believe that homosexuality is sin. Attitudes are slowly shifting in the church. I’m sure in the next several years these type of situations will be rare.
Ladbrook
How positively Soviet.
Billy Budd
Religion is poison. It has brought only bad things to the world. The worst people are the most religious ones.
Low Country Boy
Can we just please call it “marriage?”
jwtraveler
Religion is stupid. Religious belief has made Americans stupid.
Finrod
I, for one, welcome Christianity’s suicide. When they’re all done attacking each other over their differences, they’ll be no one left.
nature boy
@Billy Budd: uhh, Mother Theresa? Gandhi? Martin Luther King Jr? Isaac Newton? Albert Einstein? Louis Pasteur? Galileo? Aristotle? Euclid? Darwin? George Washington? the Wright brothers? Thomas Edison? Michelangelo? Beethoven? Thomas Jefferson? Lao Tsu? I think you get my point. Some of the best people are also the most religious ones. It doesn’t have to do with their religion. It has to do with their education and heart. Religion has brought bad things– but it’s also brought many wonderful things. Way too complex an issue to try and make it black or white.
Dakotahgeo
@nature boy: Thank you! I love it when sanity and common sense speak up and speak out!
youarekiddingme
@nature boy: Darwin and Einstein actually considered themselves to be agnostics and there is considerable debate about Washington being an Atheist even though he attended church with his wife. Edison denied the existence of god(s) of “religion” and referred to nature, and he did Not believe in a soul. Aristotle was religious?? …”You could say that Aristotle’s god is a metaphysical idea and acts only as an explanation of the universe and nothing more.”… I can give you an incredibly long list of atheists as well but what a waste of time that would be. The list I gave you would actually be current and correct and without speculation.
Simply put. The worst wars in history have been fought over religion. Period. More people have been killed in the name of god/allah or any other name they want to give their god than for any other reason. Religion IS STUPID! Organized religion has poisoned this planet and is killing thousands every day! Enough…everybody’s little fairy in the sky is all the same…there…no more fights!!
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: @Transiteer:
LOLOL… why, you little boys sound absolutely… befuddled! Thanks for the laughs… now go get an education outside of mommy’s basement dwelling!
Transiteer
Ahh yes … the true meaning of religion. There isn’t one. It’s a social club of hate, bigots and bullies peddling a book of fiction with fictional characters and events in order to control you, your actions, your thoughts, and your life. Go Secular, and tell these prima dona pastors to take their fake religion and f**k right off.
nature boy
@youarekiddingme: yes, thanks, my list was hastily pulled together I’m sure many of those great figures’ beliefs on religion evolved and were highly nuanced throughout their lives. A few names you certainly couldn’t argue with however. I certainly will argue with your popularly parroted statement that “The worst wars in history have been fought over religion. Period. More people have been killed in the name of god/allah or any other name they want to give their god than for any other reason.” If you take a look at the list of world wars by death toll here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll of course the top is WW2 which I have never heard the conflict described as being about God/Allah, followed by Mongol Conquests and a long list of ancient Chinese wars, none of which were fought for religious reasons. Just violence and lust for power and domination and the accumulation of wealth. I certainly don’t think the US Civil war had anything to do with God/Allah.
I’m certainly not denying that ignorant, ugly, and violent people cloak themselves in religion. I’m just saying that religion has also brought great works of music, art, caring, compassion, civil rights, and good works to the word. If you can’t see that, you’re just as ignorant and close-minded as the ignorant and close-minded religious people you are condemning.
Dakotahgeo
@nature boy: Again, thank you for the spot on history lesson, from a History Major in college.
GayEGO
@BlueDude: and the response may be “pee-yew” :>)
SteveDenver
Congratulations to the grooms. Love is a wonderful thing.
Did anything unexpected happen otherwise?
Billysees
@nature boy:
” Religion has brought bad things– but it’s also brought many wonderful things. Way too complex an issue to try and make it black or white. ”
How perfectly true.
youarekiddingme
@nature boy: I’m glad you recognize that your list was at least somewhat flawed. I didn’t have time to go through the entire list….Anyway onto your bringing up WWII. I don’t know why you did it but you did so I guess I’ll have to point out a little article put out by the American Holocost Museum in 2008 that talks about how the catholic church in particular was deeply intrenched in the interworkings of the Third Reich. I give you the following link: http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html . There’s lots of material but unfortunately it does show a tie between religion (christianity) and another darn war! Go figure huh? Hitler hated them damn Jews and the catholics didn’t like em too well either! When they got together well I guess you can read and draw your own conclusions about how nice and flowery religion is when it comes to killing 6 million plus people! Just FYI, I was raised roman catholic. Belief in god is one thing…belief in a man to believe in god (organized religion) is something entirely different! That’s again what I said earlier. This is what’s poisoning the planet. ORGANIZED RELIGION!! NOT BELIEF IN YOUR GOD (The point of this entire article I may add…good men of faith)!
@nature boy: Your “History Lesson, from a History Major in College”…You may want to remember that education Begins in the classroom, otherwise you simply reiterate what’s in the instructor’s head and in the text books.
youarekiddingme
Oops that second comment was meant for: @Dakotahgeo
Dakotahgeo
I am more than aware of your insipid remarks. Out-of-classroom experiences are a must to proper learning conditions. I would think you knew that! End of lesson!
Billysees
@nature boy:
” I’m just saying that religion has also brought great works of music, art, caring, compassion, civil rights, and good works to the world. ”
Another most excellent comment.
youarekiddingme
@Dakotahgeo: Spare me your doe-eyed comments until after you graduate from junior college sonny, and by the way…let me know the next time you defend your country in the Persian Gulf in the middle of a war. Until then…save it! Lesson over!
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: No thanks for your KP duty, little soldier boy! I’m 71 and my only uncle was killed in the Battle of the Bulge! I’m sorry you came home… a real waste of time and energy. Isn’t it funny that WW2 was the last war we won??? Again, thanks for your LOUSY service!
aliengod
@youarekiddingme: The soldiers who fought in the Persian Gulf didn’t “defend our country”. They fought for oil (money). The only accomplishment of that war was to completely destabilize the region.
Dakotahgeo
@aliengod: THANK you! I was wondering when someone would shoot this “freedom, peace, and justice” crapola out of the saddle! This country hasn’t won a war for the USA since we won against Nazi Germany and Japan, to keep them and their powers at bay! The Middle East was all about oil and money! Especially oil! Had we NOT butted in on Iraq and Afghanistan, we wouldn’t have lost our underpants and the entire nation BACK to the original quagmire! Smart, USA… reeeal smart!!! And guess who was at the helm of our Ship of State? Whyyyyyy, GWBunnypants and Cheneykov, no less! And WHO is bailing our festering ASS out of the Middle East??? Whyyyy, that dastardly Snidely Whiplash of Hawaii, Señor Presidente Barak H Obama! (Wasn’t he the one who was reelected twice?? Against all odds??? Ah yes, but I digress…!) Back to the nine pastors scenario!
aliengod
@youarekiddingme: I’m not trying to be disrespectful to US soldiers. But be real, their efforts weren’t heroic or in defense of our freedom. They were to protect US interests with valuable oil fields. We should never have sent ground troops to the Middle East or assisted in the overthrow of their leadership. All in all, Iraq was much better off under the leadership of Saddam Hussein; as was the rest of the world.
Dakotahgeo
@aliengod: You are correct. I was probably too tough on youarekiddingme but these weekend warriors get my goat when they spew such silly drivel as “Bow down to us for our service,” when actually they and their minions were sold a rotten bill of goods and they swallowed it hook, line, and sinker! And THEN have the audacity to brag about their faux pas while other soldiers died in their place! THAT STINKS!
youarekiddingme
@Dakotahgeo: Can’t keep your lies straight huh? First comment was that you were a History Major in College…Age 71? Maybe a late starter in school perhaps??? Repeat the 7th grade 45 times? (No, No, just kidding…NOT).
Don’t disrespect your uncle like that…Him being gone and all. Hey Draft Dodger, Where was your military service? Vietnam Era?? Mr 71 year old?? Call me what you will (and you will never know what I did in the military–although I can hear the jealousy), you will never know if you were/are enough of a man cut it in the military with all your big talk about your History Major, reading books, never being there, and living vicariously through your dead uncle. Sorry, Sorry Life. I actually pity you!!
@aliengod:Unfortunately Iraq and Afghanistan are both in the Middle East and I think that probably most Americans would disagree with you that going to both after the Trade Center Terrorist Bombings would be considered in defense of our Freedom…
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: Go to bed loser! I’ve accomplished more in life by the age of 21 than you ever will! My uncle is just fine as honored and you can’t touch him. You’re nothing but a murderer for the government and couldn’t even do THAT RIGHT! Jealous of you??? Why??? You have nothing to be jealous of! I do have a couple of Masters Degrees and working on a Doctorate. Go back to polishing your gun and potato peeler
nature boy
@youarekiddingme: ahh, I understand your vitriol better knowing that you were raised Roman Catholic. They’re not one of my favorite denominations either, although on a personal level there are some very beautiful and selfless Catholics who make the world a better place and stay involved in their church and actively work to better the organization from within.
I do encourage you to spend some time at United Church of Christ, ELCA Lutheran, Unitarian Universalist, Unity, your local Buddhist temple, or a Quaker service, before you tar all religion with the same brush.
I also still disagree that religion is responsible for the carnage of WW2. Yes the Catholic church accommodated the Nazi’s to preserve their wealth and property and Hitler hated Jews, but I view that as more an issue of racism than of religion. And I think you’ll have an even harder time claiming that Japanese aggression in the Pacific was caused by Catholics.
And of course there’s Stalin and Mao Zedung as well, neither of whom support your claim that religion is to blame for all the worlds atrocities.
Billy Budd
John Lennon was correct when he said in the lyrics of Imagine: “And No Religion Too!”
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: Not to forget that I have a triple Major in Music Education, History, and a retired pilot! Fit that into three years! THEN you can brag! How many of our own guys did YOU kill?
youarekiddingme
@Dakotahgeo: You need to look at the facts of the war on terror and understand that since the beginning the Guard and Reserve have made up an average of about 30% of the total force of the approximate 2.3 million deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. So don’t knock the Guard and Reserve (weekend warriors as you call them) for doing the job that you REFUSED to do. I have utmost respect for those in the Guard and Reserve and you couldn’t make a pimple on their asses!
You still wish to live through your uncle. Through his accomplishments. The fact is that you didn’t have the balls to do what he did period. You got your educational deferrments (plural) and evaded going into the military during wartime service. Now you will never know if you were man enough to handle it. LIVE WITH THAT!!
Ok, you have a couple Masters Degrees…blah, blah, blah…fine. Someone who’s really insecure (especially at 71 years of age) has to recite his accomplishments on public media? You really must have a deep-seated guilt about not having lived up to someone’s expectations?
Yea, my feelings are soooo hurt. You called me a murderer. Booo-Whoo. Yea, You know, I’m secure enough and satisfied enough with what I have done and what I have yet to do (your life is sooo limited) I don’t have to say a word about my accomplishments.
Go ahead, take a Pamparin and go to bed!
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: Heh heh heh… I was only 1 year old when my uncle died so no chance for me in that war, LOLOL. You’re just a little warrior and I’m content with that. No jealousy for anything you did or didn’t do. Total loser. Now you’ve wasted enough of my time. Unfortunately YOU came home!
youarekiddingme
@Dakotahgeo: You were 1 year old when HE came home you idiot but the RIGHT age to not Dodge the draft in the 60’s and 70’s huh? You COWARD!
I did come home. Ha, Ha, Ha! Just to piss off old, book-educated, udwordly, scared toadstools like you!
You were the idiot who “jumped” (uninvited) into this conversation in the first place…”you boys sound…”!
Now take 2 Pamparin like I told you.
Dakotahgeo
@youarekiddingme: LOLOL… Comments noted… dismissed.
nature boy
@youarekiddingme: c’mon guys, this sniping at each other is below you both. Please apologize and shake hands. I have the highest respect for men and women who are willing to make the supreme sacrifice to protect the safety of their friends and family. Of course the politicians at the top can make terrible choices about national defense and how to deploy them. The biggest issue I have with the military right now is that the drinking age is 21, many states are raising the cigarette age to 21, and yet you’re old enough to give your life for your country at 18? The age of enlistment needs to be raised to 21 or mandatory military/ national public service instituted to ensure the politicians’ kids are serving as well. Oh and while I’m at it term limits in Congress. Of course that has nothing to do with this story.
So, back on topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/us/push-within-religions-for-gay-marriage-gets-little-attention.html?_r=0
“…for religious intellectuals who have advocated same-sex marriage, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy’s repeated invocation of the word “dignity” in his majority opinion seemed to be a very deliberate reference to religious teaching. “Dignity, the high value of each individual person, their immeasurable value, their sacred value, is in its roots a Christian value,” said the Rev. David P. Gushee, a professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University in Macon, Ga. “Dignity language is a widely used cognate for the idea that every person is made in God’s image and is sacred for that reason. So what I think Judge Kennedy did was reach to one of the core concepts of our civilization.”
Dakotahgeo
@nature boy: Thank you for your gentle nudge toward self-respect, heh heh. I’m used to right wing rhetoric and boastfulness and it makes it difficult to be as Christian in Spirit as I’d like. But, yes, getting back on track… We are fortunate that MOST mainline churches today are open and affirming of all LGBT individuals, the latest being the Presbyterian Church (church-wide). The recalcitrant churches who will never budge are the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, Lutheran Church-Wisconsin Synod, all Baptist churches ( who don’t get along very well with each other either!), and of course, the uber christians, Pentecostal and Evangelical churches. So, it’s not just the United Methodists who are scrapping with each other. Jehovah’s Witnesses even follow the Mormon (LDS) Church, which are making snail-like advances in their outlook, even admitting (“Curses!”) that there may be a GLBT person lurking in their midst! Interesting times we live in!
nature boy
@Dakotahgeo: Actually, I think there are progressive people speaking out in almost all denominations. I even know some very progressive Missouri Synod people who have been active about making change in their denomination… (LCMS has a way to go, nationally they still don’t even allow women to be pastors, to read from the pulpit and many LCMS still can’t tolerate the idea of a woman serving communion). But there are voices of change within LCMS. I’ve also read about gay-friendly Baptists recently. On the one hand I’m torn between encouraging people to go to the more progressive churches and support them, versus staying in their backward churches and lobbying for change. I guess that’s a very personal decision. I’ve learned that sometimes when someone stays in a hateful church it may actually mean they are hanging in there trying to change the church for the better.
One Methodist church I know has a wonderful and obviously (to me) gay pastor. So I was really surprised when I mentioned that in public conversation and was immediately shushed up and glared at as if it was a big secret and didn’t I understand it was not to be spoken of. Only later did I come to realize that the Methodists nationally are very late to the equality party, as described in this story of pastoral disobedience within their own ranks.
Having just watched a movie about South Africa under apartheid I’d like to add another name to my original post in this comment thread about religious people who have made the world a better place… Desmond Tutu.
Dakotahgeo
@nature boy: Right On! Desmond Tutu! You are correct about the American Baptist Church. There is a welcoming and affirming group (AWAB) in the ABC conference, although their ordained ministers are not recognized by the ABC conference at large. Re: LCMS, I was not aware of the positive strides they are making… good for them! Inch by inch…! Kudos for your services here!
nature boy
Dalai Lama
AzLights
@barkomatic: So, so ture. I had hoped it had improved in the nearly 35 years since I left for good, but apparently not. Good luck to these ministers.
AzLights
Sorry, meant to say, “so, so true”.
Billysees
@BlueDude:
” I do hope this is widely publicized…to address the issue of inclusiveness of all people in Christ’s Gospel teachings. Why is it that so many “christian” clergy miss that? ”
Because ‘so many christian clergy’ find in scripture what they’re looking for — a reason to justify their own attitudes, which may not extend to all folks.
The actual experience of being included in the Gospel teachings is going to have to come from within each person. Paul wrote to work out our own salvation.
Jesus said, “…behold, the Kingdom of God is within us…Luke 17:21
And while we’re at it, don’t forget that not everything in scripture is useful or applicable for everyone.
Paul, who authored most of the NT and most of the negativity about gay people, says this about his own knowledge and understanding —
1. …our knowledge is partial and incomplete…
2. …we see things imperfectly…
3. All that I know now is partial and incomplete…
(1 Corinthians 13:9,12)
He may even be speaking for scripture he didn’t write.
Those are excellent examples that teach us that some scripture is too partial, incomplete and imperfect to be useful for every situation.
We therefore must reason out anything and everything in scripture ‘as necessary’. That will help us to ‘effectively’ judge and evaluate a matter or people based on all reasonable, ‘current or modern’ attitudes, experiences and knowledge.
The search for new and better ways of accepting and understanding LGBT people using scripture is a worthy effort.
The continuing and modernity inclined work of the ‘Spirit of God’ is alive and well ‘in many of us’.
Billysees
I forgot to add this —
The Kingdom of God is not in ‘word’ (scripture verses), but ‘power’ (Spirit of God in us)………it’s not food and drink but ‘righteousness’ (good works and deeds) and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit……1 Cor 4:20 plus Rom 14:17