Years ago, back in the roaring ’90s, I had what turned out to be one of the most memorable and most infuriating nightlife experiences of my 15 years in New York City.
The action unfolded at Sound Factory, an after-hours dance party for gay men, where I’d gone for some boozy early morning fun with my friends Laura and Brian. I made it past the burly bouncer behind the velvet rope with no problem, but then he blocked Laura and Brian from entering. Their entwined hands had given them away as … straight. The horror!
“Sorry, but this party is for gay men only.”
We pleaded with him to bend the rules just that once. It was, after all, my birthday (a lie). The bouncer was firm: I was welcome, but my friends weren’t. We started to mouth off, and Brian became a bit belligerent. A scuffle almost ensued, but before anyone got hurt (it would have been poor half-the-bouncer’s-size Brian), I pulled him away. The after-hours dance party would have to go on without us.
It was a disappointing ending to our big night out, but today, I’m rethinking my loud objection back then to Sound Factory’s men-only rule. It started with a recent night out at The Peel, a gay dance bar in Melbourne, Australia. Like various other gay venues around town, it’s gotten around local anti-discrimination laws to enforce a strict men-only code.
I’d been to The Peel many times during its more flexible co-ed days, but it wasn’t until I returned for the first time in nearly half a decade and found the place packed almost entirely with gay men and a few scattered drag queens that it hit me. I realized how much I missed the good old days when gay bars were practically 100 percent boy zones.
It was nice to order a drink and not be squeezed aside by any messy bachelorette parties bulldozing their way to the bartender. There was no-one doing that I’m-too-sexy dance that women sometimes do in crowded spaces where pushing often comes to shoving. There were just a bunch of guys who all wanted the same thing — to have a good time and maybe make out with another guy between dance sessions.
My reaction surprised me because The Peel is where I met one of my exes in 2010. If it hadn’t been for a woman, we never would have gotten together. She was the girlfriend of my future boyfriend Jayden and the de facto ringleader of his group. I met her first, and as Jayden recently reminded me, she was the one who introduced us.
But those were different times. Gay culture has changed dramatically in the past five years, becoming less exclusively about gay men. Even Grindr, which, for many, has replaced going out as the best way to meet eligible gay men, is no longer a hook-up app just for gay men. Trans women and the gender fluid now crowd the grid in many cities, looking for action.
Sometimes when you click on a cute guy, his profile offers non-negotiable instructions: “Trans only” or “No men.” Different strokes and all, but we already live in a straight world where most guys are interested in women only, and homophobic straight men routinely reject gay men. Why should we now have to deal with them shunning us on Grindr, which was initially intended as our meeting space?
I’ve been to gay bars and clubs in cities like Buenos Aires, Bangkok, and Berlin that are more welcoming to women than to straight men, who are far more likely not to check their homophobia at the door. I’ve had bouncers who seemed almost aggressively straight question me before allowing me inside.
“Do you know this is a gay bar? … Are you gay? … Are you sure? … Can I see your I.D. again?”
Their interrogations can be insulting, but I know they’re only looking out for the best interests of their gay patrons.
Unfortunately, there’s no way to screen out straights on Grindr. Lately, I’ve been getting messages regularly from guys who insist they aren’t gay. Some are just looking for someone to, in the words of one who recently approached me, “worship their c**k.” Others are hoping to work out their sexuality issues while their girlfriends are out of town.
There’s no way around them, but every time one messages me, I find myself appreciating those suspicious bouncers who are so dedicated to deterring straight men from entering gay premises, even if it means weeding out — or insulting — some of their target patrons. I wish the owners would apply the same rigid gay-men-only policy when hiring hot bartenders!
This is not me giving in to transphobia or heterophobia. But the proliferation of trans women and trans chasers on hook-up apps can sometimes be an unwelcome reminder of the heterocentric world we’re supposed to be escaping. I love that transgender people are more visible in everyday life, and I welcome trans men to the grid with an open mind. However, I wish trans women and the men who lust for them exclusively — especially the men who lust for them exclusively — would fulfill their fantasies somewhere else.
As much as I love hanging out with straight men, I’ve never been a fan of the ones who go to gay bars solely to meet women. Sure they may have less competition there, but don’t they already rule the rest of the earth? They can get lucky by hitting any of the myriad straight bars in any city … or by going to the supermarket … or by walking down the street pretty much anywhere? I certainly would rather not have to keep stumbling over them on Grindr.
I don’t want gay culture to go back to being as isolated as it was in the ’90s, but we can unite with our allies at Pride, at RuPaul’s Drag Race viewing parties, and pretty much anywhere in everyday life. When the clock strikes midnight, though, gay men deserve the right — we’ve earned the right — to a few sacred spaces that still belong to us alone.
notasjw
It’s cute how the writer thinks the world revolves around him! One day he’s a militant it has to be my way or no way then the next he’s regretting his self righteousness! Hopefully it’s a teaching moment for him! Changing and evolving is natural demanding everyone think and agree to YOUR ideas is destructive!
innocentgay
Well, you would know.
Vince
It’s as discriminatory as saying you only want to be surrounded by white twenty somethings when you go out. Since today’s bars and clubs aren’t necessarily hook up place like they have been in the past it shouldn’t really matter anymore.
Black Pegasus
Bloop!
LMAO 🙂
Heywood Jablowme
“It’s as discriminatory as saying you only want to be surrounded by white twenty somethings when you go out.”
Ah, yes… in Jeremy’s fantasies it is like that.
innocentgay
I disagree. I miss the gay bar so much, and I never even went all that much. Not for lack of wanting to, but for lack of availability. Nowadays, the only remaining “gay club” in my big city is no better than any common straight bar, but with a pride flag. Literally only 1/12 patrons are gay men at best. I’d likely get a better ratio at church. The only alternative is a tiny dive bar containing a few leather fetishists who are all married, neither of which is my type.
Loki
After Pulse, a bouncer aggressively screening out straight men seems like a reasonable idea…
Giuseppe
Personally, I haven’t been to a gay bar in a LONG time: 50%-60% filled with women and the music is awful. There’s absolutely nothing to distinguish a gay bar from a regular bar except for possibly the shirtless bartenders. If you were lucky enough to live in NYC in the 90s, remember gay bars fondly, those days and that fun (often dirty-in a good way) scene are OVER.
truthseeker
Too bad apps like Grindr can’t be “men only”
Kangol2
Find a programmer or learn code, and create your own. Call it Herr or Bloke or D1ck and make it “cis-male” only.
Loki
Grindr now is basically people looking to support each other’s delusions….
Rex Huskey
stay home. watch porn. beat off. no one will f you like you can f yourself.
iminheatlikeacat
Queerty: Different strokes and all, but we already live in a straight world where most guys are interested in women only, and homophobic straight men routinely reject gay men. Why should we now have to deal with them shunning us on Grindr, which was initially intended as our meeting space.
Also Queerty: Transphobic Terf cancelled on Twitter after she said women’s bathrooms should be for women only.
I like how the straight guy is homophobic for not wanting to sleep with a gay guy though, lol. Are gay guys that don’t want to sleep with straight women heterophobes?
Loki
This site is rife with cognitive dissonance.
broadshoulder
My local gay pub always supported gay men and lesbians
The trans were pushed to the sidelines. It was young gay men or lesbians which kept it going
Donston
I understand that every writer has different perspectives, but just a few months ago you guys were putting out articles about how anyone should be able to go to any club that they wish to. The every-few-months turnaround is exhausting. But as problematic and naive as Jeremy can be, I do appreciate that he’s the only writer here (and one of the only writers of any “queer site”) who’s willing to go against the grain and say things that will be divisive.
One of the issues with the “embrace everyone” perspective is that it leads to a lot of spaces losing their purpose, things getting co-opted and leads to appropriation. Suddenly going to a “gay club” is more about wanting to entertain your hag, or trying to get attention from guys who aren’t particularly or at all interested in guys, or indulging “sometimes queer men” who aren’t all that romantically/sexually/relationship-wise interested in dudes but want to party them sometimes and suck some dick sometimes. I don’t see an issue with wanting to around men who unabashedly like guys, love male affections and passions, and have male relationship ambitions. The tapestry of the “queer community” and the general “everyone is welcome” mentality has definitely diluted things. But ultimately, these things are impossible to police without coming off hostile and hateful, and the importance of the club scene in general is dying. It’s time for everyone to move on.
Brian
Gay culture has been gentrified.
thisisnotreal
@donston, yeah I’ve got mixed feelings on it too. I’m not positive but I have a hunch me and you are around the same age so we definitely can remember the club days when gay clubs were all the rage and they were “our space” to unwind and be around like minded people etc. but with the rise of social media and instant gratification places like Grindr, clubs and the whole art of cruising is becoming a product of a bygone era. Not sure why (since I was never actually part of the clubbing crowd back then) but for some reason the idea of gay clubs dying out kinda bums me out. In my mind I always viewed them as something fun and exciting I always wanted to try once (prolly from watching too much queer as folk lol) but in reality I realize that a lot of gay clubs were just places for gays to hookup in the bathrooms and do drugs while drinking and dancing. Still feels weird to see them dying out since it felt like a bug era in gay history.
But I digress… while I think having places where lgbt people can feel safe and accepted is very important, I also feel like having a policy of “if your not one of us your not allowed” opens up a whole nasty can of worms that society and politicians and religious organizations etc would tear to pieces and use as their focus of attack to rile up their followers who claim discrimination or exclusion against us. I mean take out the qualifier “lgbt” in any sort of gathering or establishment and insert anything specific to race, nationality, gender, identity, politics, religious beliefs etc etc and you’ll have some group out there sharpening their pitchforks screaming discrimination against them because they are excluded from it. People LOVE having something to fight against and “cancel” these days and exclusive establishments is low hanging fruit for them no matter what group it caters to.
Donston
I’m 33 and I’ve only been to a “gay club” five times in my life. I’m just not a clubber. But yeah, the idea of “gay clubs” no longer catering to guys who love guys and have male romantic/sexual/affection ambitions is indeed kind of a bummer. But sociology and commerce evolves. It is what it is. I will also agree that social media and apps have led to greater connections and understanding to a degree but have also led to more isolation, manipulation, self-resentment, division and discourse for many others.
thisisnotreal
Yup thought so, we’re the same age.
iminheatlikeacat
@donston @thisisnotreal
I’m 33 too. I agree with both of your posts in parts and the sentiments in them but they both confirm my fear that I have too turned into an “it wasn’t like that in MY day” kind of adult.
Brian
Boo hoo, poor Jeremy doesn’t like the results of a problem that he helped to create by bringing straight couples to gay bars. I guess he should have had a little more respect for gay spaces when he had the chance
I imagine we will see a similar article a few years from now when he begrudgingly decides to stop chasing teenyboppers and decides to settle down with someone age appropriate. Then he’ll realize all the good ones already paired up while he was pretending to find Ariana Grande relevant, and all that’s left are the shallow, emotionally stunted guys who wasted their lives doing the same things he did. Except they’ll all have bad face lifts by then.
thisisnotreal
Brian I feel like I have yet to see one of your posts that isn’t bashing someone or something and being critical and negative. I think you need some more fiber in your diet sweetie cuz your full of more unsavory things than an airport restroom. Having opinions is fine, but being a constant contrarian isn’t a cute look on anyone.
Brian
Surely you didn’t think I came here for the quality journalism.
Nosso Crankee
Yep, Brian’s a One Note Whiner….
Goforit
Thisisnotreal…. If you look at Brian’s picture, I don’t think “cute” is the look he is going for.
subflyguy
This is spot on! As gay men we have fought for years to be free and accepted so much so that we opened up spaces for others who were looked at as outcast. Then now we are the ones who go on our gay dating apps and have straight men telling us WOMEN ONLY or NO MEN. So you have these closet cases who now feel comfortable since they can find trans women on the apps that were created for gay men and still being hateful bigots.
Donston
This does highlight something we need to be confronting. If we truly want to embrace the entirety of the “queer community” and feel we should not be about segregating from each other in any form, then fine. But the amount of homophobia and superiority complexes from “queer males” who have overall preferences towards women (whether cis or trans) has got to stop. Too many wish to invade “gay spaces” and hetero-normalize them or pretty much use “gays” simply to boost their egos and make them feel “subversive” for a few hours out of the week. There’s definitely too many hateful and closed-minded gays. But there’s also too much going on that is helping facilitate homophobia, internalized homophobia, self-misandry, homosexual or homo-leaning shame, hetero-leaning/non-homo-leaning worship and superiority, closet cases. If we’re truly about embracing and respecting the full spectrum of gender, sexuality, romance, emotions and relationships then there are definitely widespread conversations that need to take place and issues that have to be confronted.
sfhally
This insistence that everyone should be free to mingle is going to destroy the last of gay segregated areas. It’s already claimed the Michigan Women’s Festival. Sex clubs in Britain are being pressured to admit trans men who have vaginas. A Berlin club was under fire for asking shrieking femme queens to leave because they were ruining the ambience.
I remember a while back here in SF there was an ad for a sex party for “men of color only”. I told a friend of mine that I was going to put in an ad for a “white only” sex party just to see if anyone would fall for it and raise hell. He told me not to make trouble.
Before anyone has a cow, I didn’t care about the party. I just wanted to point out the double-standard.
it’s time to admit that wanting to “be with our kind” is not a bad thing. And in some situations, it’s vital for creating a sense of community.
Joshua333
Not to sound rude or anything but if it was a Women’s Only bar it would be seen as Brave and Amazing but since its Men’s Only it’s Sexist and Wrong. But I think if we had Men Only and Women Only bars then they would be better fitted to what environment Men looking for Men want to be in and then an environment for Women looking for Women.
Josh447
It would seem very plausible that the dollar bill has a great deal if not the most effect on gay bars allowing anyone to come in and buy a drink. It’s declining numbers of visiting gay men due to techno dating techno sexing Etc I’d say 90% of the reason we don’t have men only spaces anymore is due to the fact that the bars are financially struggling so intensely just to stay alive and relevant they have to let anybody in to buy a drink. If I follow the dollar I generally find very rational answers in businesses. It’s all supply and demand.
Brian
I don’t think it’s ever been an issue of gay bars not letting people in. Hags have always been a gay bar staple. It was, by and large, that straight people simply didn’t want to go to gay bars.
For most culturally segregated spaces, people not of that culture have simply known that those weren’t their spaces and didn’t try to make it otherwise. Black churches, for example. Anyone is allowed to go to one, and I assume that the services have a scattering of non black people in them, but not to the point where it’s completely changed the dynamic the way it has with gay bars. For whatever reason, we haven’t gotten that pass, that those spaces are for us, not them.
I imagine that’s because while white people have no shortage of church options to choose from, people who want to see drag queens performing, or bachelorette parties who don’t want to deal with straight guys don’t really have any other options. So we’re stuck with them and that is unlikely to change. Maybe someone will figure out an alternative someday, but short of it being based around graphic gay sex, I don’t know if there is an alternative that would interest only gay men but make straight people want to stay away.
Aires the Ram
Very good point. It’s too bad. I’ve railed against all these dating apps, as a substitute to taking a shower, putting on some decent clothes, getting in your car and driving to a gay bar, going in, and actually practicing social interaction with folks. So many don’t know how to interact with anyone anymore. I mean, wherever you go now, a bar, the gym, a local pub, the grocery store, these young one have earphones stuffed in their ears, and if you do engage them for some reason, perhaps just a friendly ‘hello, nice day isn’t it’, they get this look of near panic on their face, and literally don’t know what to say or what to do. This is not good in my book.
judysdad
I’d rather be around women and gay-friendly straight men than trans people and drag queens any day.
Donston
Homosexual/homo-leaning/homoromantic/gay men who are obsessed with feeling just like “regular guys”, who are effemiphobic and who are caught up on hetero-leaning or non-homo-leaning guys often have such perspective. But you reveal that you didn’t read much of the article since it’s critical of trans and drag inclusion as well.
winemaker
Living in San Francisco, I remember there used to be a few women only lesbian bars: Maude’s Closet. The Elbo Room Peg’s etc. I’ve gone into a couple of these bars years ago when they were around but over the years these bars like many of the gay men’s bar’s in San Francisco have closed due to many factors, mostly now slow business. One thing i recall is being treated poorly and feeling insulted at the time. Now i kind of understand how these women felt as they had such few places to call their own yet the men’s bars outnumbered them many times over. You can now go into any gay bar in San Francisco and see men as well as women, sadly it’s not a gay men’s space anymore
one more thing
Bars I frequented often while I was in College in California during the mid to late 80’s just at the dawn of the aids epidemic – The Detour, Gauntlet ll, Cuffs, and if I didn’t go home with anybody I would sober up at THE MEATRACK! You had to leave your I.D. at the front door but it was worth it ( there was no sign for the meatrack you just had to know which door to go in ) ….I’m not sure if there are many people alive today that remember the Meatrack….also there were the bath houses and after hours clubs still open, Queen of Hearts, which I found a bit depressing. In the Silverlake area people had to keep an eye out for the gay bashers that seemed to be a thing at the time. People were killed just walking home from the bars or to their cars. It was a crazy time and I can’t believe I’m still alive to recall all this! Oh back to the article, back then it was mostly leather men in the bars, boys and their sugar daddy’s! And Poppers were real back then….
JJinAus
I was there in the 90s. We got sick and tired of drunk and belligerent hen parties. Melbourne is not a very big city. There were dozens of night clubs for straights, but only a small handful for us. Piss off.
Wolfie
Gay men need safe spaces also.
HankHarris
There’s a big difference between bringing a straight or female friend to a bar and a huge bachelorette party the descends on a bar and that aren’t there for you but to take over the dance floor, ogle a go go boy, and giddily tell their other basic friends that they went to a gay bar (scandal!). The sad thing is they can’t go to the ‘straight’ club and feel safe. That is part of the issue. There’s also the difference between women wanting to go to a gay bar in the middle of a tourist area like Bourbon Street and women who insist they have the right to go to a leather bar that has sex going on in the back room. I question why they feel the need to be there?
Goforit
What a shame. I didn’t realize that our struggle back in the 70s and 80s to be equally included into all aspects of society meant that we had to take on the worst traits of our oppressors. That of exclusion and discrimination towards others.
JJinAus
You don’t understand. The allegedly former oppressors were invading our clubs and openly mocking us in OUR space. Where were we to go?
xanadude
While I don’t mind a good mix of patrons at the local gay bars, as long as they are all respectful of one another, but there is one large very popular gay bar in town that has been completely ruined. It gets PACKED and is 95% straight women there for bachelorette parties and gawk and ‘the gays.’ Gay people wouldn’t be caught dead there anymore. Sad.
ClarkAlan
Here is my optimistic view: Things change. Just when you think Grindr and Scruff have become the last word on meeting men, a new innovative thought will arise…what if gay men who wanted to meet other gay men gathered in a common space…perhaps in the evening hours…where alcohol is served. It will be cool and happening to frequent these new spaces. It will be un-cool to bring your cell phone in. You will be shunned if you bring in your cell phone. If you look down at your hand you will be shunned because it looks too much like you’re looking at your cell phone. Seemingly at odds with the mission of talking to each other, very loud sounds will be blasted where you have to get up real close to someone’s ear to be only partially heard…so you dance instead.
honryfaerieboy
I completely agree with this article straight men already rule so much of the earth we should at least have our gay affiliated mingling grounds to only be residing with gay and or bisexual men and i strongly think straight men should not be entering a gay male club just to mingle with small chances of a heterosexual women its not fair that they can easily find straight women anywhere but its so difficult for us to find homosexual men
Mark W
I am a regular customer at a gay cabaret in the West Village where there are many regular customers who have been going there for years, both male and female, straight and gay. While there are a few male customers who have issues with any woman being there, the majority of us have no issue with women coming in as long as they are basically decent and un-intrusive. What we have an issue with are the drunk females who grope, push their way through, screech and complain when they do not get the attention that they think they are entitled to. If somebody isn’t interested in chatting with you or becoming your new “shopping gay”, move on. They ridiculously bellow about someone destroying the party because they don’t want to interact, continuously grope, screech in ears and ultimately become belligerent and angry. I’ve had it with these types of females. They are not allies of the gay community, just visiting hens who want to feel “cool” and “trendy”.
For example, this past weekend, friends of mine had to move away from our regular space at the piano because one drunken frau insisted on touching everybody around, screeched at them to sing along to her song choice, and then tried to steal something I had left on the stool that she had swiped. I was simply trying to catch up with a friend who was in town from Florida, avoiding Hurricane Dorian, and this older female would not leave me alone. I had to finally tell her that she was being a giant nuisance and needed to leave, which apparently did the trick, after which everybody sitting around the piano thanked me for stepping up. Had this been an isolated incident, I would ignore it as the simple rantings of a drunken frau who didn’t know how to act, but it is not the first time I have had to deal with such an incident.
Friends have had their ears constantly screeched in, their heads slapped when they ignore these types of women, their hands pulled away from the ears because the constant “woo-ing”, and other sorts of bad behaviors. Men are already having a difficult time as it is having their own spaces where they can bring a female friend (those who know how to behave) if they choose to, and being accused of inappropriate behaviors. Apparently, there is a part of the population of women who feel that they are entitled to act inappropriately simply because they are at a gay bar, and many of us are simply sick of it. We’re not out to stop anybody from having any fun, and I would never want to ban any particular group from coming in, but enough is enough. We are not there for your automatic entertainment, and refuse to be exploited.