President-Elect Barack Obama may not be delaying his reversal of “Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell” after all.
After last week’s news that the incoming administration would delay til 2010 to remove the policy responsible for thousands of gay and lesbian soldiers to be discharged from service, an anonymous source within the Obama camp tells the Washington Blade that no decision has been made either way, saying, “These decisions will not be made before the full national security team is in place.”
In other words, it’s not that Obama has decided to put off “Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell”, it’s that he’s put off deciding.
There’s real concern that the only people who are really serious about repealing the policy are gays and lesbians and that in the focus on the economy, a repeal will get moved to the back burner. Gay and lesbian former members of the armed forces are particularly wary:
“Retired Army Col. Stewart Bornhoft, who is gay and a former commander in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, said changing the law would require both “passion and preparation.”
“Clearly, the passion for change is there,” he said. “But it requires proper preparation for the [Defense Department] to declare that they can implement open service successfully.”
However, Bornhoft said repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” should be attainable in the next Congress.
“Whether that’s the first or second half of that period should be determined by the progress within the Pentagon’s thinking rather than an arbitrary calendar date,” he said.
Heather Sarver, a lesbian and former Russian linguist for the Air Force who was discharged under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” in 2003, said she understands “the need to build support” for legislation repealing the law, but said “everyone who cares about this issue should hold specific members of Congress accountable for their support of the bill.”
“What I fear is that Democrats have stated that they support repealing [the ban] in order to appease their gay constituents and to say they support gay issues without being in support of gay marriage,” she said. “If they are sincere, then they will schedule meetings with other members of Congress and garner their support for repeal.”
Sarver said if lawmakers do not work on building support, their opposition to “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” in the election will be seen as “nothing more than a political chess move.”
Joe Moag
Oy. At the risk of re-opening a long ass debate from earlier this week, here I go:
“Passion and preparation” fits exactly with the called-for approach by Ret. Rear Admiral Charles Lawson, one of 200+ retited brass signees of a report calling for the repeal of DADT. Like Col. Bornhoft, this document calls for working with a plan. That means working with the Pentagon to address the details of what it will mean to put meat behind a policy of full-scale open integration of gays in the services.
Yes, an Exec. Order could be signed on Day One, and it would STILL require all the work at the nitty-gritty level to make real change in the services a reality, a lasting reality. Moreover, as Bill Clinton amply proved, a 1st year President, with no military service background, no Commander in Chief experience or victories, can really fuck up this issue if he moves before gaining credibility on military matters with both the Pentagon and the American public.
I still don’t see anything other than common sense involved in Obama’s approach, despite all the doom and gloom forecasts for how this is a retreat, a flip-flop, a sell-out, yadda yadda yadda.
othniel
“national security”
Where it belongs. We have lost far too many soldiers to this stupid law.
Yesterday’s Florida decision was squarely based on the right of the child to permanent placement.
We are more mainstream than we often credit; thanks to Obama for underscoring this.
These two issues have GLBT rights undertones, but actually show how our community participates in the rights and obligations of American society and culture, while the religious right is on the periphery.
Thom Freeheart
Obama will wait until the Dems lose control of Congress in 2010 so that he can blame the GOP for stopping the ban. The Dems control both the Executive and Legislative branches in January. The only thing stopping them from getting this done is them.
The Gay Numbers
You make several logical leaps that you can not make based on the article. Did you contact anyone to confirm that your interpretation is indeed true?
For instance, you write, “There’s real concern that the only people who are really serious about repealing the policy are gays and lesbians …” Did you confirm this with anyone, or is it just because a gay newspaper quoted gay sources? I don’t know. Do you? If you do, great. If not, it’s a logical leap you can not make based on your source.
You aslo make too much of unnamed sources. Obama is known for being tight on the messaging coming out of his team. That they were able to obtain even this much information tells me that the original story by the Washington Times was a fabrication at best. How do I know? Because all you really can tell from the unnamed source is that the certainty cast by the Wasthington Times was indeed wrong. That’s the only logical inference you can make from the information.
Anyway, I find your use of the link that I posted last night disappointing to say the least.
The fact is– even if your interpretation is true- your asperations that somehow 2010 is some way off in the distance period of time is bizzare considering the comments by the gay officials quoted in the article. What did they say? They said that implementation even if taken up would take quite sometime.
Angus
Obama opposes gay marriage, like the Mormons, on religious grounds. I will be pleasantly surprised if he does away with dadt, but don’t hold your breath. P.S. I voted for him. What was the choice?
Japhy Grant
@The Gay Numbers: Well, in all fairness TGN, the quote from the Washington Blade article comes from “an anonymous source”, so you can’t fault the Washington Times for doing the same.
Thom Freeheart
Rev. Wright summed Obama up perfectly when he said that in the end Obama is a politician and will say and do whatever he can for the moment.
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: Ah, channeling Rev. Wright. Now that’s a strong argument!
Thom Freeheart
Who would know Obama better than his pastor of 40 years and his mentor?
Ted B (Charging Rhino)
A future Pres. Obama CAN NOT “just change” DADT with an executive order; DADT is a law embedded in Federal Statute and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Changing DADT requires the coopration of both Armed Services commitees and the approval of both House of Congress of a Federal Bill for Pres. Obama’s signature.
….And effectively ending DADT requires the overt buy-in of the senior Pentagon high-brass and field-commanders to enforce it’s reversal.
I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: Pinhead: Barack Obama is 47 years old. Your assertion that Wright has been his pastor and spiritual advisor for 40 years is ridiculous. Obama did not start attending the United Church of Christ in Chicago at the age of 7.
I know, I know, facts…who needs them, right?
ralph
@Joe Moag:
Joe Moag:
Shame on you for considering facts! Who needs facts? They get in the way of raging.
BTW, for all of his faults, Rev. Wright is very pro-gay rights.
Also, DADT is a law. An executive order can’t overturn it! Also, in terms of priority, what’s more important, ENDA or DADT? Hmm…, won’t more people be positively affected by ENDA than DADT?
Who sets the priority for civil rights for GLBT Americans?
Joe Moag
@ralph: Yeah, I was going to point that out about Wright, but too many facts might have confused the poor guy…
The Gay Numbers
@Japhy Grant: That does not excuse you slanting the article to mean something that it did not say. And yes, I can blame poor journalism for being poor journalism. If you had wrote, date of DADT uncertain, you would have at least been writing a more accurate statement. Instead, this encourages some this sites more unsavory posters to once again overexaggerate and basically make crap up as well. If you want to check out why repeal, but go slow is right, look into the history of integrating blacks into the military.
ralph
BTW, I’m serious about ENDA. Why the hell does ensuring freedom from discrimination in the workplace and housing continue to receive so little discussion? The majority of states offer no protection against being fired for being gay, perceived as gay, etc.
I think repealing DADT is important. In fact, it should be seen as a national security issue in a time of war.
But what about Joe or Mary homo in Lousiana who gets canned tomorrow because there are no laws protecting either against discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity? Look at the statistics that show, contrary to the myth of the wealthy gay minority, most gays make less than their straight counterparts or find themselves in lesser careers because of discrimination.
Japhy,
Why not explore discrimination in the workplace as a topic?
Mister C
And you know what Joe and Ralph,
That is the SAD thing that these racists queens on here have always FAILED to understand about Rev Jeremiah Wright. He is an ally to the LGBT community in Chicago and affirms their unions as well. Bitches do not do their research at all.
But then again while they were raging there hate towards him (Obama and Rev Wright), They didn’t do it as a GAY MALE. They did it as a WHITE MALE.
WOW…See how they can be 2 different people. To bad I couldn’t. And some folks don’t understand why Blacks have become angry about initially being blamed for Prop 8. GO FIGURE
And my friend @The Gay Numbers this is not the first time Queerty has done this. Basically it’s a headline grabber. But the gay bigots are the ones who normally grab it!
Megs
Well said, Mister C. Am quite weary myself of white men angry that their skin and dick privileges aren’t universal— AND that it’s black peoples’ fault.
Thom Freeheart
@Joe Moag:
20 years. It was a typo. Now justify 20 years.
Thom Freeheart
I’ve decided to judge Obama the way I judge all politicians – by their actions, not by their words.
Thom Freeheart
I never said anything negative about Wright. I said that I agreed with Wright.
Your knee is jerking. Try to control it.
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: Try pulling the sheet off your head and read this:
http://www.washingtonblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=17266
When you are done reading it, you will see that, while not perfect, Rev. Wright’s positions on gay rights is a hell of a lot better than most ministers and churches in America. And, since the original issue in this article was Obama’s support for the repeal of DADT, and DADT’s place on the gay rights agenda, your reference to Rev. Wright and Obama’s relationship as a reason why we, as gays, should be weary of Obama’s support for our rights is still RIDICULOUS.
Now, justify THAT.
Thom Freeheart
@Ted B (Charging Rhino): A future Pres. Obama CAN NOT “just change” DADT with an executive order; DADT is a law embedded in Federal Statute and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Changing DADT requires the coopration of both Armed Services commitees and the approval of both House of Congress of a Federal Bill for Pres. Obama’s signature.
….And effectively ending DADT requires the overt buy-in of the senior Pentagon high-brass and field-commanders to enforce it’s reversal.
Obama and Congress can overturn “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” without the Pentagons input or permission.
Thom Freeheart
@Joe Moag: @Joe Moag: When you are done reading it, you will see that, while not perfect, Rev. Wright’s positions on gay rights is a hell of a lot better than most ministers and churches in America. And, since the original issue in this article was Obama’s support for the repeal of DADT, and DADT’s place on the gay rights agenda, your reference to Rev. Wright and Obama’s relationship as a reason why we, as gays, should be weary of Obama’s support for our rights is still RIDICULOUS.
Now, justify THAT.
I don’t give a rat’s behind what Wright’s relationship to gays is like.The only comment I made about Wright was that he said that Obama would say whatever is necessary for the moment – that he was a politician first.
And I agree.
I want actions, not just words.
Thom Freeheart
Are ad hominem attacks and insults against posters the norm for Queerty?
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: On the point of judging politicians – including Barack Obama – by their actions not their words, I could not agree more. And I will be, for sure.
And his actions on DADT to date – 21 days after he was elected and 50 days before he is actually sworn in – have been just fine by me.
Thom Freeheart
@Thom Freeheart: Try pulling the sheet off your head and read this:
Are you accusing me of being KKK?
Is this how it is going to be over the next four years – that anyone critical of Obama must be a racist?
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: I was accusing you of bringing race into this discussion in an ugly and needless way by bringing up the “boogey man” of Rev. Wright, specifically vis-a-vis the typical Obama-bashing fashion of over-hyping his relationship with the Rev. (40 years is what you said). So, yes, I am accusing you of using race in an ugly fashion. And this is how it will be with me the next 4, 6, 8, 12, 32 years, in response to such crap that I come across when I come across it.
Thom Freeheart
Are you kidding me? You can’t bring up the name of the man whom Obama called his spiritual mentor and from whose sermon Obama gained the title “The Audacity of Hope” because if you do you are inserting race in an “ugly fashion”?
That’s crazy.
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: Well, I could be wrong. Perhaps you are the 1st poster on any blog that I have read in the past 8 months that did not mean what it seemed so clear that you did mean when you invoked Rev. Wright into this discussion. Perhaps…
Thom Freeheart
What I wrote was that the man (Wright) who knew Obama for 20 years (yes, 40 was a typo) and the man whom Obama called his spiritual advisor said that Obama was a politician first who would say anything for the moment. My point was that if someone who knows Obama well says this, who are we to think otherwise?
Nothing about race whatsoever.
Joe Moag
@Thom Freeheart: And as I have already stated, I agree that all politicians, especially the President of the United States of America – which, as of 1/20/09 will be Obama – should be judged solely by their actions. And, I have explained quite a number of times what I understood you to be attempting to do(and am not at all convinced that you weren’t) by invoking Rev. Wright and by the use of the “40 years” comment.
Move on.
Thom Freeheart
@Joe Moag: @Thom Freeheart: And as I have already stated, I agree that all politicians, especially the President of the United States of America – which, as of 1/20/09 will be Obama – should be judged solely by their actions. And, I have explained quite a number of times what I understood you to be attempting to do(and am not at all convinced that you weren’t) by invoking Rev. Wright and by the use of the “40 years” comment.
Move on.
I’m sorry. I didn’t know that this was your board.
Bill Perdue
It’s the same discussion we had earlier. Obama supporters are still in favor of delaying our push for equality if it’s expedient for Obama. Democrats, with the exception of a few die hard Clintonistas are going to support what ever Obama does no matter how much it harms the GLBT communities.
Their goals are not our goals. They want to win elections, we want to win equality. They want patronage, we want equality.
If the Obama administration gets rid of DADT it’ll only be because He wants cannon fodder. I think we should discourage GLBT folks from enlisting in the Bush-Obama genocidal war while insisting that all forms of discrimination and harassment be criminalized and rthe perpetrators subjected to harsh jail sentences.
That includes everyone from a bigoted soldier who bashes a GLBT service member and a bigoted Commander in Chief who says “god’s in the mix” and subjects us to second class status.
Joe Moag
@Bill Perdue: Hi-Larious! If Obama does NOT repeal DADT, then he’s a gay-hating fuck-wad. If he DOES repeal DADT, then it’s for evil, Machiavellian reasons.
Brilliant debate position! Who could ever argue with your position, since you have draped bothg outcomes in equivalent wrongness.
Yeah, your implicit “third way” – reject everything – is MUCH more useful and will CLEARLY lead to full-scale liberation.
The Gay Numbers
@Joe Moag: As I have said before, Bill is pathological in his need to write “Democrats are bad.” We could be discussing bread pudding, and he would say the same thing. he has nothing else to add to conversations. He really doesn’t. He offers no way by which they could ever do anything right because as you point out– they always bad. Always. My chief problem with this post by Queerty is that it feeds into this kind of ape-throwing-poop wingnuttery.
Joe Moag
@The Gay Numbers: Thanks for the reminder about Bill. I’ll try and remember that next time and save the bandwidth.
As for the post and it’s orientation, well, hey…It takes a position. Maybe it’s a little “alarmist”, as I think you are saying, but I don’t think it’s overly so, and I am glad that Queerty is dogging this issue; I actually think that these little debates that we have are useful on subjects like this.
And, I gotta tell you, I dig the ape-throwing-poop wingnuttery imagery. And, yet, at the same time, as an old student of Anthropology and Comparative Primate Morphology (how’s THAT for a useful Bachelors Degree), I think that your phrase is highly insulting to apes. Having studied apes for quite a long time in my life, I find that your dragging them down to the level of the Right Wing is contemptable.
Bill Perdue
@Joe Moag:
Moag and The Gay Numbers, at some point in your lives you’re going to have to crack open a history book. It’ll do you both a world of good and you can avoid looking like such fools.
History tell us that Democrats Bill Clinton and Sam Nunn, a bigot and one of Obama’s key advisors, and a Republican bigoted swine named Colin Powell, who’s a war criminal to boot, are the joint authors of DADT. It’s a piece of Democratic bigotry just like DOMA, the gutting of ENDA and the ditching of our hate crimes bill. Obama, with his open bigotry regarding same sex marriage fits right in.
Obama is a Clinton clone on bigotry and a Bush clone on the war and economic collapse.
The method of building mass action, democratically led movements is the only guaranteed way to end bigotry, the war and stave off a depression. Again, at least try to read some history.
We are going to build mass movements to defeat his bigotry and get same sex partnering rights, and join with of GI’s and US and Iraqi civilians to end the Bush-Obama genocide and join with unions to put an end to Obama’s bailouts for the rich and austerity for working people.
Keep this in mind, Moag and The Gay Numbers; you needn’t feel that just because you helped elect a bigot and constantly try to deny and justify his bigotry that you have to join us. I think we’d all prefer that you just stay home and wallow in your betrayal instead of trying to make amends for it.
Joe Moag
@The Gay Numbers: You see, Gay Numbers? Bill just spit his bit and I DID NOT RESPOND by reminding him that it is now after dinner and time to take his meds.
See? I, even at the age of 44, can learn.
derrysf
Obama hasn’t yet been inaugurated, yet Iraq is somehow already ‘Bush/Obama’s genocidal war’.
Never fails to amuse me how rabid, doctrinaire Marxists are most commonly found outside of Marxist states.
Joe Moag
@derrysf: Well, I guess that there is something nice, safe and self-congratulating about living in one’s own world at all times, regardless of fact.
Kinda like an adult womb. Nice and warm and oh-so-comfy.
Joe Moag
@The Gay Numbers: Gay Numbers: I want to email you outside of Queerty, so, if interested, do the following:
1. Go to http://www.flamingpolitics.com and pull up any of my posts.
2. Leave a quick comment saying “hi” or whatever.
3. I get the IPs and origin email accounts of all comments posted, so I and I alone will be able to see what your real email is.
4. Then I will email you, so that you can see my email, then you can respond.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Bill Perdue
Derry, you silly twit, it’s that history thing.
The oil piracy in the Middle Eastbecame Obama’s genocide months ago when He said He’d keep troops in Iraq, approved cross border attacks against Pakistan, a nuclear power, voted to name the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group (instead of the IDF) and called for making Jerusalem the capital of a zionist colony in Palestine.
His agenda is the same as those of Clinton and Bush and only diehard chicken hawks who want to see GI’s and muslim civilians getting killed to advance their political agenda support his war.
Moag, your simple minded politics begin and end with being a roadie for a rock star named Obama. If you had a brain you might be dangerous, but as it is…
Joe Moag
@Bill Perdue: I like the bold type you used. How you do dat? Please, share, share. I wanna learn.
I guess you are good for something.
Mister C
Hey Joe,
Nice website!
Malina
News just in:
O’s BC FORGED!
http://www.obamacrimes.com/
ralph
@Malina:
Uh, there’s this organization called the Secret Service. And there’s this other organization called the FBI. I there’s even another organization called the Pentagon that sometimes works with an organization called the CIA.
Hello? Anyone home? All U.S. Senators and Congressmen receive security background checks just as all presidential candidates do.
This crap about Obama’s birth certificate is pathetic. Do you think that government operatives (not to mention the GOP) haven’t reviewed all of Obama’s documents and those of his parents and grandparents?
———–
Defending Obama against ridiculous attacks for things he hasn’t done, especially since he’s not even president, is less about carrying water for him than standing up for common sense.
This whole discussion is nuts. The original story appeared in the Republican mouthpiece the Washington “Times.” Do some research on it LONG history as being the paper equivalent of Fox News.
Again, in terms of helping the most GLBT Americans, what legislation is more critical? ENDA or DADT?
(P.S.
ENDA and the hate crimes legislation was killed because Bush said he would veto both. The Democrats did not have enough votes to overcome a veto.
Finally, why not actually read a book on the Civil Rights Era and examine how Lyndon Johnson or Harvey Milk actually got legislation passed? Presidents and local politicians can’t walk into office and get major civil rights laws that aid a hated minority passed. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. That doesn’t excuse politicians. Those are facts. Scary, but real facts.
RCDC
i hate to feed the trolls, BUT… i gotta agree. it is neither necessary nor, frankly, safe to attempt to repeal DADT without at least a substantial amount of support in the military (which, incidentally i think they have, if only because the military needs all the spin it can get right now. also, we need technical, intel, and air support badly. guess which sectors of the military are the most likely to have homosexuals in active duty?). my best analogy is no child left behind. it was drafted by the executive and legislative branches with little or no input from the people who have to implement it – the teachers. as a result, the teachers hate it, don’t have the resources to make it work, and it’s a disaster. same with DADT. the military needs to retrain personnel, set up stronger protections for openly gay service personnel, maybe throw in a couple extra for women while they’re at it, not to mention the additional counseling services etc, and the bump in benefits payments and housing stipends that will occur once gay personnel can openly live with their partners. it’s a lot of legwork before the grand ribbon cutting. but i believe it will happen.