Barack Obama‘s campaign claims they scheduled their interview with The Advocate ahead of outcry over the Senator’s perceived gay silence. It seems to us that Kerry Eleveld’s first question – “Let’s start with what’s hot, why the silence on gay issues?” – only supports our initial skepticism.
Timing aside, Obama offers Eleveld some more details on his gay policy, like how his Joint Chiefs of Staff won’t necessarily have to come out against Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell…
I would never make this a litmus test for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Obviously, there are so many issues that a member of the Joint Chiefs has to deal with, and my paramount obligation is to get the best possible people to keep America safe.
Eleveld then digs deep into Obama’s support of civil unions, asking the Senator whether it’s fair to ask gays to “wait their turn.”
Obama insists it’s not like that, saying that his policy’s shaped by the larger events around them. He also tells us that it’s not up to him to lead the way:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
I don’t think that the gay and lesbian community, the LGBT community, should take its cues from me or some political leader in terms of what they think is right for them. It’s not my place to tell the LGBT community, wait your turn. I’m very mindful of Dr. King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail” where he says to the white clergy, don’t tell me to wait for my freedom.
…
My perspective is also shaped by the broader political and historical context in which I’m operating.
…
That’s a decision that the LGBT community has to make. That’s not a decision for me to make.
The Democrat goes on to chat about his gay college professor, the dangers of comparing black and gay civil rights movements and makes clear that there’s no differnet between white and black homophobia. Its all hateful.
Oh, and with regard to the aforementioned “silence,” Obama insists he didn’t do it intentionally. He’s just got too many people knocking on his door.
Michael
I didn’t see a link to the Advocate article. Here it is:
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail.asp?id=53285
Ishmael
This quote from Obama’s interview sums up the reason why he has my vote:
“And finally, an area that I’m very interested in is making sure that federal benefits are available to same-sex couples who have a civil union. I think as more states sign civil union bills into law the federal government should be helping to usher in a time when there’s full equality in terms of what that means for federal benefits.”
What is more important: recognition of civil unions and equality of benefits or pushing for marriage which leads to more states outlawing gay marriage?
Alan down in Florida
“He also tells us that it’s not up to him to lead the way” –
If as President Of The United States, the greatest bully pulpit on the planet, it his not up to lead the way on these GLBT issue as well as every other issue affecting ALL Americans I think we should all be reconsidering our support of Sen. Obama.
If leadership is not the job of the traditionally “Leader Of The Free World” then I don’t know what is. What he is actually saying, as he has always done on most issues in his career, is that he doesn’t care enough about it to commit to one side or the other. To put it another way, once more he is voting “Present”.
We need a President not a “Present”
Leland Frances
There is only one new good thing in this interview. He fortunately finally got the message that arrogantly trying to shove his concept of “civil unions†down our throat as something as good as his “marriage†is insulting at best—and losing him votes. Would he trade his marriage for our best civil union? In a pig’s eye.
The rest of the news is BAD. He’s obviously backing away from any promise to even try to get us those 1100+ federal rights during his administration that he’s so often bragged about. “as more states sign civil union bills into law the federal government should�?? Senator: NEWSFLASH—that’s only NINE states so far, plus DC and MA’s full marriage. That leaves FORTY states! How long are we going to have to wait, Oh Lord Obama?
He was NOT asked why he & Rev. Wrong still do NOT support full marriage equality as the leaders of their United Church of Christ denomination do. Nor why Wrong and his congregation refused to join the “Open & Affirming” program of the GLBT caucus of the UCC.
He denies blacks generally are statistically more homophobic and then explains why they, in fact, are. Who taught this law lecturer how to submit evidence—John Kerry?
He can’t even remember for certain the name of “My Most Memorable Gay.†The Clinton White House and Administration had more out gays than any before or since. I can name many of them and I bet Sen. Clinton can name them all.
His excuses about McClurkingate are simply a tired and shameless rerun of the original ones, and Elevald AGAIN refused to ask, “WHAT dialogue? WHEN? WHERE? Would you welcome professional racists and antiSemites into your big tent, too? You ‘condemned’ Farrakhan but you only ‘disagreed’ with McClurkin. WHY?â€
He was NOT asked about his OTHER close friend/spiritual advisor the Rev. & State Senator James Meeks who not only ran for governor on an antigay platform but voted against the Illinois gay rights bill. Meeks and McClurkin are just as homohating as they were the day before they met “Mr. Uniter.”
BACKTRACK # 2: He said he would NOT require his Joint Chiefs of Staff to oppose DADT.
He was NOT asked why he takes bows for opposing Section 2 of DOMA while still supporting the rights of states to do whatever the hell they want that it refers to.
He was NOT asked why LGBTs are entirely left out of his official 64-page manifesto, “Blueprint for Change—even missing from its sections on civil rights and hate crimes.
For those who believe “he gets it,†20 years after black gay civil rights icon Bayard Rustin said that gays are “the new niggers,†Obama, like his mentor Rev. Wrong who helps PERPETUATE the spread of AIDS among people of color by perpetuating the belief that AIDS is a government conspiracy, is still playing the “we’re more shat upon than anybody card.†Senator: Is it illegal for blacks to marry whomever they want? Is it illegal for black couples to adopt children in most states? Is it illegal to deny blacks jobs in ANY state? Are blacks banned from all branches of the US military? Are blacks left out of federal hate crime law?
Have AT LEAST SIX blacks been murdered simply because they were black in just the period of time Obama has been running for President as these LGBTs were:
Ryan Keith Skipper, 25, March 14, 2007
Sean W. Kennedy, 20, May 16, 2007
Satendar Singh, 26, July 1, 2007
Talib Stewart, 25, February 9, 2008
Lawrence King, 15, February 12, 2008
Simmie Williams, 17, February, 22, 2008
Yes, Obama would be far better than McCain. But those who are still crucifying Sen. Clinton over what did or did not happen 15 years ago need to apply equal standards to what Obama does/does not say TODAY.
The rest is spin, aided and abetted by clearly entranced Advocate’s Kerry Eleveld who compounded his/her earlier crime in the previous interview as a coconspirator with Obama by AGAIN NOT confronting him on his bald-faced lie that he was a cosponsor of and passed the Illinois LGBT rights bill. He did once play on that team, as it were, but was not only not on the team when the game was won, he wasn’t even in the arena, having been elected to the US Senate. But Eleveld simply let his lie stand and his totally false claim of having been Most Valuable Player.
Yes, Senator, I “take you…for what [you’ve] saidâ€â€”and you’ve said that you were something you weren’t on behalf of gays. Why should we believe you about anything else. Why should we believe that you will actually work for gay equality from the White House anymore than you did in the Illinois State House when you’re already backpedaling before you officially have the nomination? Talk is cheap. But my vote is NOT.
Alan down in Florida
A nearly great response from Leland Frances. “However there is either a typo or a glaring error. I will assume it is a typo.
Have AT LEAST SIX blacks been murdered simply because they were black in just the period of time Obama has been running for President as these LGBTs were:
Ryan Keith Skipper, 25, March 14, 2007
Sean W. Kennedy, 20, May 16, 2007
Satendar Singh, 26, July 1, 2007
Talib Stewart, 25, February 9, 2008
Lawrence King, 15, February 12, 2008
Simmie Williams, 17, February, 22, 2008”
I’m not familiar with all these cases but I’m pretty sure that at least 2 are not black and one that is black was killed because of his transgendered presentation not his skin color.
That notwithstanding I find it interesting none of the cool-aid cowboys (that Obama is now throwing overboard in the delegate election process in favor of political hacks) has jumped to his defense in the light of Leland Frances’ insightful and accurate response.
Mr C
Okay Leland and if that is the case.
What has HRC (Human Rights Campaign) and Mark Segal done about these Black gays that have been murdered? I’m curious………
Because they damn sure don’t anything else for Black LGBT’s.
And what has Hillary Clinton done for them????????
NOTHING!
But if these 5 blacks were white. Every Gay Civil rights group would be all over it like fire!
Spare me this Bullshit. She is no better than him on these issues and Stop thinking she is coming on a cloud to make LGBT the thing to be and all rights access granted.
It isn’t happening at all! No mater who is the Democratic nominee.
Tom
Leland Frances has already been exposed for what his is and NOTHING he says is worthy of a response.
Mr C
Thanks Tom!
Leland Frances
My apologies for not making my meaning clearer. What I meant was that at least six people have been murdered simply because they were LGBT since Obama has been formally running for President whereas I know of no such number killed simply because they were black.
The point of it was to further rebut Obama’s assertion in the interview that there is more overt racism in the US than homophobia which is…how can I put this politely….FUCKING RETARDED! Ironically, four of the six listed were people of color but that is not why they were killed.
And, yes, I totally agree that LGBT groups are too “white,†and totally agree that, with very rare exception, established LGBT groups are doing far too little—if anything—to combat these hate crimes. That is why I so support the Gay American Heroes Foundation and its goal of creating a traveling educational exhibit about LGBT victims lives and how violence is inevitably the result of tolerating intolerance. You can learn more about it and the six “heroes’ above [by definition of their trying to be their real selves in a homo/transphobic world], among others, at: http://www.gayamericanheroes.net/index.html
And, yes, it is only fair to challenge both O & H to do more as public leaders in relation to hate crimes than simply cosponsor the Senate hate crimes bill which they both do. But it is also fair to point out that it is a fact that Sen. Clinton released a statement condemning the murder of 15-yr. old Lawrence King before Obama did.
BUT my recurring point is not to suggest that “on paper†Sen. Clinton is that much better than Obama on LGBT issues. It is that so many either dismiss her as being at least insincere if not outright antigay and/or put Obama on a pedestal as The Savior For The Gaysâ€â€”an elevation he encourages in this interview as he has before—when neither extreme is true and I am simply, as he suggests himself, judging him by those standards.
As Robert Samuelson said in “Newsweek†in February about campaign promises generally: “The reason for holding Obama to a higher standard is that it’s his standard and also his campaign’s central theme.â€
M Shane
Thanks, Ishmael for making the only pertinent comment. Only bimbos who feel a necessity for Sulivanesque heterosexual assimilation and have tossed the spirit of gay liberation in the toilet don’t realise both the wisdom and authenticity of civil unions vs marriage .
Not everyone needs or wants to be a bride (just like mom).
Paul
Fuck Obama – he is a useless piece of shit. An opportunist that deserves to have his head blown off! Here’s to hoping……
Leland Frances
As much as I don’t want him to get the nomination, your “hope” re Obama Paul is repugnant!
Charley
I have been for Obama from the get get go, but it is because of the mother’s white side, certainly not the side of his spiritual adivisor Wright. This black religious nonsense has got to stop blaming priviledged whites for all their insecurities. Asians and Hispanics assimilate in the culture, what is wrong with the blacks. They are like my partner who was sexually abused as a child. He wants every one to know it and feel sympathy for him. I keep saying, move on. So does Obama tell blacks to move on from being oppressed. OK, I just got my car windows smashed in by a black thug in Las Vegas. They caught him. But I perceive the difference in him and Obama. His mother’s love is what he is all about, not the black anger of die and burn whitey, we will overcome.
John
I really must say something. Why is it that in the gay community there hasn’t been much love for Barack. If anything the Clinton Administration created “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell”. Hilary isn’t for gay marriage-yet so isn’t obama. and if you look at there records barack is actually more liberal. If anything he’s done more as far as votes go (in the senate) favor of us gays. Its time for something new, time to let go of the “Status Quo”. This man is unique and we’d be missing out if he wasn’t elected.
GO ObAMA!
Liberalist
I wouldn’t vote for him if there was no other choice. Hillary has my vote she will do the most for the gay community hell even Elton John sees that.
Too many people have fell for Obamas empty promises, he’s a racist pure and simple. He can go back to Chicago and preside over his slums he created with Rezko.
chris
Yesterday in Puerto Rico, a bombshell fell on Barack Obama’s hopes to at least win a small percentage of primary votes in said jurisdiction (he was only receiving 20% of support in the polls). This “bomb†goes by the name of Larry Sinclair and his allegations of homosexuality and cocaine use against Barack Hussein Obama, which happened to go ‘prime time’ yesterday throughout the Island.
For those of you who do not know the story, Larry Sinclair is a gay man who claims that ‘when Barack Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate he met twice with Larry Sinclair in November 1999 in Chicago, obtained cocaine for the both of them and consumed it (crack cocaine smoked through a glass pipe in the Senator’s case). On both occasions they also participated in consensual sexual acts with each other.’ After his allegations became known through his Youtube video (WATCH HERE), a website (WhiteHouse.com) offered Larry Sinclair money in exchange for his taking of a polygraph test on their site. On the site, they constantly assured the public that they were going to video-record the proceedings and post it on their website, all in hopes of giving full disclosure of the results. As many of you may remember, this supposed video was never posted/published (never has) and, running late on their own schedule, decided to ONLY post a brief description of the “analysis†of the results (supposedly provided by two independent researchers which claimed that he had failed it). Obviously, since the video of the process was never presented to their readers, it automatically opened speculations and accusations from Sinclair himself (and many in the public) that these individuals were probably “paid off†by David Axelrod and the Obama campaign. To prove this point, Sinclair has posted multiple copies of the checks, letters and other documentation with which he claims to demonstrate the contention that he actually passed the test, but was later betrayed by the site with the publishing of the incorrect analysis of his results. Nonetheless, Larry Sinclair continued his quest to expose Obama for what he describes as “his lies and drug addictionâ€, and continuously attempted to get his allegations heard.
Ever since Sinclair came out with the story, he alleges that his life has been threatened and that his person has been defamed throughout the internet by Obama’s supporters. For this exact reason, Sinclair has brought suit against a couple of these “bloggers†for defamation and threat of violence, both of which he claims are directly linked to the Barack Obama campaign. In relation to this suit, and very recently, (African American) Federal District Judge Henry Kennedy (view BIO HERE) decided to go forward with said case and has allowed discovery of it’s allegations to begin in their entirety, setting up one of the biggest scandals that has ever befallen a Presidential candidate, at least in recent political history. To further complicate the controversy, Sinclair has also sent an affidavit to the Chicago Police discussing the ‘Donald Young connection’ and is aggressively urging a further investigation into his death and connection to the Obama camp.
This additional and strange leg of the story claims that a recently murdered (gay) Choir Master of TRINITY UNITED CHURCH, by the name of Donald Young, contacted Sinclair multiple times about this whole issue of Obama’s relationship with Sinclair (apparently under the instructions of the Obama campaign), even admitting to having homosexual relations with Obama himself. Here is the copy of Sinclair’s affidavit to the Chicago Police: CLICK HERE The subsequent death of this gay man (who belonged to Obama’s church) is quite mysterious and it has not reached the Mainstream National news. Nonetheless, you can still read the following story from CBS, in which they simply mention this very violent and nebulous death in Chicago: CLICK HERE All of this disturbing information will probably have to come out with greater detail during the mentioned Sinclair court case, since it is a crucial aspect of Sinclair’s claim that the Obama campaign has launched a concerted effort to defame and threaten his life.
Now, all of this controversy has reached the important primary “State†of Puerto Rico, were the show “Super Xclusivo: La Comayâ€, the highest rated and most popular show on the island (for the past decade), dedicated an entire hour to the discussion of this story and to the interview of Larry Sinclair himself (you can watch a custom recording of yesterday evening’s airing of “La Comay†by clicking HERE). The program’s style and it’s “classification†is quite difficult to explain to the majority of Americans, since this Country doesn’t have an equivalent. For the sake of definition, let’s just describe it as a “gossip, news, commentary, investigative-reporting, and comedy-variety show.†As an example of their influence and importance within local culture (and to dismiss the speculation that this program may be “inconsequentialâ€), the program’s impact is so dramatic that every Gubernatorial (and legislative) candidate in recent Puertorican history has gone ‘live’ on said show to be interviewed by both hosts. A few years back, a highly controversial but popular ex Governor (Pedro Rosello) decided to run again for the Governorship of the Island, but refused to go on said show (Super Xclusivo) saying that he “didn’t speak to dollsâ€. Because of this, his popularity went down precipitously (also helped by getting ‘ripped’ on a daily basis by the show itself) and he lost the Governorship by a wide margin. The man who actually dedicated most of his time to being interviewed by the program’s hosts, and who took the show seriously (Anibal Acevedo Vila) ended up winning the election (and thus invited both ‘characters’ to the Governor mansion to celebrate his victory). His candid participation made him appear attuned with “the common peopleâ€, and also gave him wide exposure, since this program is turned on in almost every Puertorican house at 6:00 PM.
Therefore, this exposure to Sinclair’s story is HUGE in Puerto Rico, since it is not only getting ventilated by the most popular show on the island, but it is also getting attention by it’s parent company Televicentro (the highest rated channel on the island), which happens to be the only remaining Puerto Rico owned Media and News source on the Island. Interestingly enough, this controversy is not only damaging to Obama because of the drug-use aspect (smoking marijuana in Puerto Rico could easily label you a ‘junky’ by most), but an even more dramatically damaging aspect of the story is the whole “homosexual†dynamic of the story. Puerto Rico, after all, is a highly socially-conservative Nation, and the idea of having a “gay†President (even a small town mayor) is disturbing enough to ostracize Obama from almost every serious political discourse (and public support). It is well known among most Puertoricans (even the most Liberals) that even slight rumors about the supposed sexual “flimsiness†of a particular candidate is enough to destroy their political hopes in PR politics (case in point: Bhatia).
For Barack Obama, this couldn’t have come at a worse time since he was expecting to at least survive the Island’s primary election with a few proportional delegates. But now, with this story, and with his only main supporter in the Island’s political elite (the highly unpopular Governor of Puerto Rico) now facing Federal criminal charges, this controversy will assure a clear loss among the few primary participants that will provide with 55 delegates to the Democratic victor (the amount of voters will be small in proportion to it’s population since there is no political tradition in PR of participating in U.S. primaries).
The question about all of this remains: Will this have a trickle down effect into the United States? Unlike American journalists, the Puertorican press WILL ask Obama about this controversy if he ever decides to show himself on the Island, whenever it’s primaries become inevitable. Will the Mainstream Media pick up the fact that the whole Sinclair story is now MAINSTREAM in Puerto Rico, or will they decide to ignore it? It is clear that even if reporters in the United States decide to air a criticism of Puerto Rico’s “negligence†or “audacity†in publishing this story, Sinclair will automatically become the main theme and will thus inevitably spread throughout the Country.
Day by day, this story approaches critical mass, and we can slowly start getting ready to prepare for the diverse names that may begin to be utilized to describe it; GAY GATE, CRACK GATE, SINCLAIR GATE, LIMO GATE, et al. Irrespective of the veracity or integrity of this story, it is nonetheless true that these allegations will eventually come to fruition among the corporate press (maybe closer to November), and it is now only left to the Mainstream Media and/or the Obama campaign to deflect it as best they can and see if they can survive it. Apparently, Donald Young and Larry Sinclair have just become household names in Puerto Rico, it will be only a matter of time until they become part of the American lingo as well.
Mr C
Charley, I need to respond to you. Because I’m SORRY you’re on the outside looking in and you are CATEGORIZING all blacks as such. First of all if I understand you Asians and Hispanics assimilate in their own culture. Not AMERICAN culture. All of us Blacks are not like your partner. I was never sexually abused and my heart goes out to him. All he needs is professional help to help him move on. If he accepts that in the long run he’ll be fine and if not he will continue to have scars. I live everyday making it and striving in America because being BLACK & GAY is a double cross to bear than being WHITE & GAY. Then on top of that to incur discrimination in your own GAY community from the other side because it does happen.
Blacks on the large scale do not feel oppressed. The real deal is this we are not respected. BOTTOM LINE. Our history is means a lot to us and you and no one else should ever tell us to GET OVER IT! We have gotten over that. But we never forget it’s our history BLACK HISTORY not AMERICAN HISTORY. Would you tell the Jews to forget the Holocaust and those atrocities they suffered? I don’t think so. So Blacks should not and any other race. Shouldn’t either. Please stop relying on TV NEWS for these racial baited stories. They will show what they want.
To categorize us is just saying about the kid who vandalized your car that all BLACKS are thugs. Last I saw crime doesn’t have a race attached to it. POOR WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS has then same issues. But it’s not on the evening news because to white based media it’s not a major story. We all don’t feel like the black anger of die and burn whitey and whites shouldn’t feel like everytime they come in contact with a person of color they become nervous or we’re NIGGERS. If you really have compassion towards Blacks and any other race group then try meeting Blacks of all statures. We are Professionals, Blue collar, White collar, Gay, Straight, Christians, Atheist, etc. If folks stop putting us all in one bag than maybe folks can really embrace DIVERSITY!
Don’t you think so?
Charley
Mr. C,
You seem to think I am Judy Holliday in “Born Yesterday”. I have a long history of black thought. My ancestor,Dr. Merrill of Jacksonville, Fla., father to Charlie Merrill, founder of Merrill/Lynch brokerage firm,
was beaten almost to death by two black men in Jacksonville in the early 1900’s which left him a damaged brain, a vegetable. Charlie had to provide for the family, as Dr. Merrill lost his medical practice.
I think Charlie may have been against blacks after that, but not so his son, Charles Merrill of Boston, who contributed alot of funds to Morehouse College and encouraged black civil rights in Chicago.
His advancing black civil rights was responsible for Merrill Lynch hiring O’Neal, who brought the company to it’s knees over his trying to sell it to Wachovia behind their backs. We gave you a chance, and in return, almost got wiped out of business.
Yes I am angry, and every time I see a loud mouthed Jesus black person, especially lesbians with lip gloss spouting “the truth through Jesus”, (Pentacostal pastor Leah Daughtry) of DNC, I feel like dick slapping them.
Charley
P.S. For the benefit of bloggers who don’t know, O’Neal resigned. He was black, and got a 25 million dollar severance check. Merrill/Lynch should have fired his black ass and sent him back to Alabama where he came from.
Charley
Moral of the Stanley O’Neal/Merrill/Lynch saga. You can take the CEO out of the Congo, but you can’t take the Congo out of the CEO.
M Shane
Charlie: I would also respectfully disagree with you with Mr. C on the point of Obama having developed his compassion and self respect from his mother. His father was an educated attorney and humanist who worked disappiointedly against corruption in his home, Kenya.
Since a large percentage of Afro -Americans are the product of black slave and white interbreeding, the same or a similar logic should apply to them. Have you ever noticed that you can pretty well tell at first glance the
difference between the different types of African, as opposed to Afro american faces.
I believe Geo Washington even talks about trips to the slave quarters for sexal release.
(Presumably he didn’t use rubbers.)
I’m sure that you know the Southern and Carribian habit of breeding quadroons. 1/4 black and 3/4 white so that they would look white and still qualify as slaves as concubines-apparently they were regarded as
being unusually attractive.
In any case it is not true at all that black Americans as a whole are hateful toward whites or criminal. I can say personally that I’ve lived with and around a number of black people and have found them to be neighborly and responsible.
I was raised with a spite for prejudice, because my Irish predecessorss, despite bieing very educated etc, were descriminated against both in Ireland by the colonial English and by Americans here. All of my immediate and even extended relatives(lots) moved out of the midwest because of No. European prejudice.
When Obama says “He also tells us that it’s not up to him to lead the way†-He means that he is not going to do it all for us, like we were children. He means that everyone, like my ancestors, needs to take responsability for their own fate. We need to get elected people to act for them.
I recall a statement from the Brit film” V” which says that “the people should not be afraid of the government” , The government should be afraid of it’s people.” This will hopefully become a democracy again someday, not a just a go-pher for the Corporations. Obama is merely giving us the power o do the work in getting what we need., as all people should in a democracy.
Mr C
WOW…Talk about angry! So because of these few people Charley. You direct your anger at ALL BLACKS???? I would be careful about that.
And O’Neal fucked up Merrill no doubt. What about the many WHITE CEO’s that have done worse. You have 3 airlines that went out of business and none of those CEO’s is BLACK. Then there is Bear Stearns also fucked up and that CEO’s isn’t BLACK neither.
And when it comes to preachers
John Hagee
Rod Parsley
Charles Stanley
Dr James Kennedy, etc
Have sent the GAY community to HELL with their preaching. Why you don’t want to DICK SLAP them? Is it because you’re both on the winning side?
Come come Charley release some tension and don’t cause you any harm in the process. This is really disastrous
M Shane
All this P.R. bullshit shouldn’t tricle anywhere but in the toilet. Just because there is a person of integrity and compassion: with real principles running against a sneaky mother figure who coos to you foes not mean that he deserves gossip and backbitting.
That fact of the matter is that Obama could not have done a better interview. I don’t know if , like anyone what he will be able to do. It depends on the Congress and how smart the American people are. It’s pointless and harmful to run this kind of ugly swiftboating that some people are even more than ever insistent on doing. Have you no shame.
Afroguapo
Charley:
You have proven that the adage that “age confers wisdom” is indeed a falsehood. As Mr. C aptly points out, there are a host of white CEOs who have mismanaged their companies through chicanery, malfeasance, incompetence and wrecked havoc on our nation’s economy. Do you not remember the calamities of Long Term Capital Management, the savings and loan crisis, Enron and its infamous raptors and now UBS (Marcel Ospel), Bear Stearns (James Cayne), etc.? So please refrain from bogus statements that giving a black man (who worked very hard to get to the pinnacle of the company) a chance to be at the helm of a major company going through financial distress is somehow predicated on him being black. At least Stanley O’Neal worked very hard all his life to ascend professionally. This is in marked contrast to you, a no-count dilettante whose claim to fame is either being possibly a co-founder of Merrill Lynch or there being some vague attenuated relationship to the true founder of Merrill Lynch (which is it in fact, as your website contains numerous discrepancies?) or perhaps connivingly marrying an heiress of the Johnson & Johnson family only to come out later with the defense that you’re 1/4 straight and 3/4 gay. Why the vitriol against black people (Congo reference) when you said on another thread that a black man in the Navy defended and aided you against homophobic white men trying to beat you up? I believe you once said that you often say horrid things when under the influence of alcohol (chardonnay from my recollection). Given what you’ve written on this thread, please put down the bottle and take your geriatric ass to bed. Night Night.
Charley
Mr. C & Afroguapo,
Here you go again, assuming I am against all blacks. Not true. Although I see Obama as half white, most of you want to proclaim Tiger Woods and Obama as African American. Tiger is 1/4 black, and Obama 1/2. You do not want to recognize any white blood. Look at Pam over at her blog. Almost white, although she claims no white blood. Just tuned into Bishop Jakes this morning for his sermon. He is stirring up hatred against whites calling them the devil, as is Wright. If you can’t see this, you are in denial.
It will take Obama to mediate between the races, this is why I voted for him. A man of reason, not of emotion like you two so called “blacks”.
You only make up 12 per cent of the population and Obama will be elected by whitey’s like me.
Charley
M Shane,
Thank you for your commentary. Yes, I know about the Irish and how they were not allowed to write anything down by their British oppressors, since Cromwell.
The British also stripped Ireland of most of the trees to burn in their factories during the industrial revolution.
Thanks to the common European market, all that is history and hatred has resolved itself. Here in the U.S. there are those oppressed in slavery history, who want to be the oppressors at present. Check out any of the black pastors and what they are really saying using Moses and the “chosen people” as a metaphor. “Chosen people” represents them, not the Israeli’s, as most are anti-semitic.
Afroguapo
Yeah, this certainly shows emotional restraint and rational thought:
No. 20 · Charley
Moral of the Stanley O’Neal/Merrill/Lynch saga. You can take the CEO out of the Congo, but you can’t take the Congo out of the CEO.
Most blacks in this country don’t claim “white blood” because it’s somewhat negligble and not immediate (like Barack’s mother) as it’s not like we’re close to any white relatives we have or may have had which may be connected to America’s historical “one drop rule”. My dad’s grandfather was Irish but I don’t consider myself Irish — not because of anything against whites or Irish people. By the same token, whites on here esp. ones from the South, likely have a black great-grandmother or great-grandfather somewhere in the line.
Charley
Afroguapo
Every one alive today has DNA going back to Dr. Leakey’s discovery, “Lucy” who was black and African. Africa was the cradle of civilization, but those who stayed in Africa and did not migrate, are suffering in poverty and hunger today. Sad, and I am compassionate to their suffering.
Afroguapo
Charley
Someone once asked me on here why I waste my time on some people on this site. I guess I am just perplexed that seemingly informed people who know what it means to be a minority can exhibit such idiocy so easily, or perhaps it’s just a game to come off like an idiot so that the thread continues and usually ends up off topic. Africa is a continent in case you forgot and although parts of it suffer because of the legacy of colonialism, random bouhndaries delineated, its resources being pillaged (Manifest Destiny, the Scramble for Africa), there are parts that are thriving with people having great lives. And I too am compassionate to feeble minded myopic gay men who are oblivious to their own ignorance and bias and feigned condescending empathy.
Charley
Afroguapo,
You seem to get you kicks by personally insulting me, my family and my marriage. If it makes you feel better about yourself, then you have a problem.
You have no idea the compassion I feel about the suffering in humanity, the world over, not just Africa.
I find you to be very arrogant in your black militancy, very similar to Jerimiah Wright, who may be the cause of Obama losing the election.
You and Mr. C should try burying the hatchet against the white LGBT community.
Ismael
I agree with Afroguapo, Charley needs to put the bottle down. His posts are nothing but rambling, incoherent diary entries with no pertinent insights…other than to reveal possible alcoholic psychosis and a not so subtle racism.
Charley
Ismael
Your analysis of me is wrong. Not a drunk. I am merely pointing out how black militancy such as Wright hurts Obama. I have supported him since I heard him speak at the Democratic National Convention. He is a mediator between the races.
Mr C
First of all Charley,
I never said the entire WHITE LGBT community is racist. However, in all of leadership of LGBT everyone is WHITE and most things are based and geared toward WHITES look at the mags don;t see much color on the covers either Blk, or Hispanic. That is a fact! I call it as I see it.
The percentage of LGBT that doesn’t see color as an issue is far small than those that do. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Tea Dance are the most segregated time for LGBT! That is a fact!
You were the one who said
Quote: Merrill/Lynch should have fired his black ass and sent him back to Alabama where he came from, also you can take the CEO out of the Congo, but you can’t take the Congo out of the CEO: Unquote.
Doesn’t sound like much LOVE for Blacks to me? And I’m not judging you for it is what you said. Bottom line this community has issues that they are not willing to face ad combat and racism, and or biases is one of them.
Remember we cannot be at PEACE with others until we are at PEACE with ourselves and we are not at PEACE in this community. On neither side. So to look for the government to pass all these bills isn’t going to happen. Who will they benefit the white side of the community? Remember the powers that be refuse to let us be seen and heard at PRIDE celebrations so we had to do it for ourselves and it’s sad but it affirms us. We deserve just as much exposure and to be proud as you do.
We can all agree to disagree. But to have subliminal HATE with us all only makes this community as a whole suffer in the long run. And if it was never ever noticed before it is now in part due to Obama. And I’m glad it is for at least you’ll know how some feel and you can deal with that as not knowing how they feel and they’re smiling in your face while attempting to sabotage you!
WAKE UP LGBT There is a big difference between
PREFERENCE AND PREJUDICE!
hisurfer
“However, in all of leadership of LGBT everyone is WHITE”
I have experience in Ann Arbor, Detroit, San Francisco, and Honolulu. GLBT leadership in all these cities was very diverse. If anything, women of color were the most active in many of the organizations I was involved in, especially on campus.
“Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Tea Dance are the most segregated time for LGBT! That is a fact!” Again, not in the cities I’ve lived in. Maybe it’s a fact where you live. If anything, the gay bars where I’ve lived were always more integrated, in terms of class and ethnicity, than the straight ones. On a recent visit to Atlanta I saw this huge social wall between black and white, one that the locals didn’t even seem aware of. The only place I didn’t see it was in the gay bars.
“Bottom line this community has issues that they are not willing to face” Ah c’mon, people have been arguing this shit non-stop since I came out, decades ago.
One of the things that most impressed me about Obama’s Speech on Race (we need a better title for it, btw) was his observations that some people are still stuck in the mentality, and using the language, of the Civil Rights era. I’m feeling the same here. We still have problems, but they’ve changed. The world has moved on. The rhetoric needs to move on to, and at least reflect the world around us in 2008.
Mr C
Hisurfer to respond to you.
I said: However, in all of leadership of LGBT everyone is WHITEâ€
You said: I have experience in Ann Arbor, Detroit, San Francisco, and Honolulu. GLBT leadership in all these cities was very diverse. If anything, women of color were the most active in many of the organizations I was involved in, especially on campus.
My answer: Never heard of them and I was referring to major groups i.e. GLAAD, HRC.
You said: Again, not in the cities I’ve lived in. Maybe it’s a fact where you live. If anything, the gay bars where I’ve lived were always more integrated, in terms of class and ethnicity
My answer: You tell me what bar in Detroit is multiracial and I’m not talking about 70/30%
The Eagle in Detroit is predominately white
The Woodward is predominately black
Ann Arbor is a predominately WHITE and collegiate suburb.
I don’t know about Honolulu. But I am more than sure if any Blk gays are there they are military and it’s not many in those bars
As for San Francisco SPARE ME It’s lily white and the only club that was there that blacks went to was “The Pendulum†in which the racist owner Les Natali shut it down and promise to reopen and never did. And carded Blacks so bad at Badlands they wouldn’t go back. As he own many bars there in the Castro
Remember a few years ago a white gay male claimed that he was raped by black men IN SF????? Really and the leader of the SF Gay Tasks force said that they was there to protect what was there’s GAY AND WHITE!
So most Blacks are in Oakland at Bench and Bars when their parties are given. I know what I’m talking about. I traveled a great deal. And I have seen this
And as for Atlanta please spare me again.
The EAGLE: Predominately white few black
The Heretic: Predominately white very little black
Backstreet: Predominately white very little black
WOOFS: Predominately white very little black
Bulldogs: Predominately black very little white and the neighbors are getting the place shut down
The Chaparralle: Predominately black no whites
The Lions Den: Predominately black no whites
Wash DC, NYC my hometown I can go on and on! Let’s not go there!
Like I said my friend “Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Tea Dance are the most segregated time for LGBT MEN! Allow me to correct myself. I cannot speak for women. That is a fact for men!â€
And you tell me what Gay Civil rights group have discussed Race issues within the community and please tell me who with info. I have never seen it discussed. Not by HRC, Nor GLAAD or anyone else and I’m no youngling’ by any means.
You said: One of the things that most impressed me about Obama’s Speech on Race (we need a better title for it, btw) were his observations that some people are still stuck in the mentality, and using the language, of the Civil Rights era
Me: Who is still using this language from the 60’s? No one cannot deny that racism still lives just read some comments on here.
You said: I’m feeling the same here. We still have problems, but they’ve changed.
OK, How?????
You said: The world has moved on. The rhetoric needs to move on and at least reflect the world around us in 2008
So do you consider bias and discrimination to be rhetoric in 2008?
You said: and at least reflect the world around us in 2008
It’s still happening today
You said: The world around us have changed
Not by much. If you read some of these comments here about Obama
Things changed???? No they haven’t it’s just a new crew in the game.
But CHANGE is needed and I am all for that! This hate and separation has to end.
I never said all gays are like this for they are not. But there is a major amount that are on all sides and it need to stop!
Charley
OK. So I speak in anger about someone who almost ruined a corporation founded by a first cousin. It was a mistake to post “black ass back to Alabama”, but we are all human and when we lash out at each other, we do so from emotion. I lost alot of money when Merrill Lynch took a nose dive. I am not being racist. I would have said that about any CEO that used bad judgement in a company I had invested in.
Through Obama maybe we can move on and see others real worth as human beings. As I said before, a black man saved my life when I was in the Navy, but I prefer to judge him by his actions and not by the color of his skin. It is unfortunate that the Merrill Lynch debacle happened, because it may be along time before a Fortune 500 company hires another black CEO. Wall Street is full of criticism about ONeal and his qualifications. McNeal is to blame for his actions, not African Americans.
Merrill Lynch was the first to tumble and now the whole financial world is bottoming out. The recession we are in now will turn into a depression.
Charley
P.S. I cannot comment about the segregation in the gay bars because I don’t go to them. I live in Palm Springs, and although the population is 1/3 LGBT, I rarely see a black, straight or gay. Of course it is home to the famous “White Party”, but I don’t attend. With the exception of L.A. & S.F., California does not have many blacks period. Mostly Hispanics, Whites, and Asians.
Mr C
Charley, I LOVE YOU!…LOL
Afroguapo
Charley
I wasn’t insulting your family at all but merely pounting out discrepancies in your “story” (an article on your website says YOU were a co-founder of Merrill Lynch). I also couldn’t see how someone born with a silver spoon in his mouth and who managed to marry into a similar family would cast aspersions by assailing someone like O’Neal — a great Horatio Alger success story — and imply that Merrill Lynch was damaged by hiring supposedly an incompetent black person and laying the company’s problems solely at his feet. It’s interesting that you don’t attribute race as a factor at all where the black man in the Navy saved your life but when there’s a perceived problem or failure, you make race a causal factor or integral to the equation. We don’t blame the current state of our nation, dismal economy, perception abroad on George Bush being white. Anyway, this article is very interesting. It’s about Michelle Obama’s white lesbian roommate at Princeton and the “birth defect” in some white families.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/04/12/roommate_0413.html
Charley
That story was by Michael Lucas that said I was co-founder of M/L. He made a mistake, just a relative. I am cousin to Charlie and his son Jimmy, the late Internationally acclaimed gay poet and Pulitzer prize winner.
Yes, O’Neal is a great Horatio Alger story. Born to a cotton farming family in Alabama, educated at Harvard, and then made CEO of the largest brokerage firm in the world.
I am sorry it ended on a bitter note and set the dominos falling on all financial institutions who handed out sub prime mortgages.
About the black sailor that saved my life, he had empathy towards me because he was also an outsider because he was black. I understand, that is why I am for the Obama’s.
I can’t go on because their is someone wanting to use this computer looking at me impatiently. I am at the Duke Fitness center in Durham for 8 weeks, for a medical checkup and general physical. Not sick, just preventative medicine and taking care of myself.
hisurfer
Mr C – audre lorde was a bigger name than any other gay leader or activist back when I was a student. Certainly you’ve heard of her?
Diversity means more than just black and white.
I haven’t lived on the mainland in decades, so don’t even recognize the bars you mentioned. I tended to drink in neighborhood bars, not the Castro, in SF. Those bars pulled guys from the neighborhood, and since this was pre-dot.com days SF was much more diverse in general than it is today.
Anyways, I never denied that racism existed. I did say that it’s not 1968, or 1988, and that our rhetoric needs to move with the times.
Afroguapo
Feel better.
Op-Ed Columnist
Obama’s Indonesian Lessons
By ROGER COHEN
Published: April 14, 2008
JAKARTA, Indonesia
Blog: Passages When Barack Obama’s Indonesian classmates are asked to recall the boy they all called “Barry†(pronounced “Berryâ€), their description is unanimous: “chubby.â€
He was the tall, chubby kid in Bermudas who joined their 4th grade class at the Besuki elementary school in 1970, the boy with the white mother and Indonesian stepfather who brought his own sandwiches to school (odd to a noodle-eating crowd) and, strangest of all, wrote with his left hand.
“It was so weird that he was left-handed,†recalled Ati Kisjanto, now a marketing consultant. “That was considered impolite here, and you were forced to write with your right hand.â€
A dozen of Obama’s classmates were gathered at the house of Sandra Sambuaga, exchanging stories over Indonesian delicacies. For two years after Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004, they were unsure this was the boy registered at their school as Barry Soetoro (the family name of his stepfather).
“We just couldn’t believe this skinny U.S. senator with another name was our chubby, hyperactive Berry!†said Dewi Asmara Oetojo, a politician. “We were only convinced when we saw a photo of him as a boy.â€
The atmosphere at the gathering was raucous. The school was in the upscale Menteng neighborhood; everyone has done all right. A small crucifix hangs from Sambuaga’s wall: she’s a Christian. Most of the other classmates are Muslims in this country that is home to the world’s largest Muslim population.
Only Citra Dewi wore a headscarf. “I used to sit next to him and I’d say ‘Berry, move away, you’re sweating!’ †she told me. “In Indonesia we say active boys ‘smell of the sun.’ †Everyone laughed at that.
I listened and tried to imagine the 9-year-old Obama too embarrassed to sing, swapping his sandwich for sticky rice, enduring the fascination with his hair (“it kept curling back, like our noodles,†said Sambuaga).
No wonder Obama is adept at exploring the spaces in between, the areas that are neither black nor white, neither “with us†nor “against us,†neither red state nor blue state: he has spent his life building bridges to assemble a coherent identity. Only by uniting disparate threads could he become whole under the name of Barack Obama in a world experienced as defined by divergent truths.
One such many-shaded truth was religion. His stepfather, according to Obama’s memoir, “followed a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths.†That tracks with the pliant, tropical Islam of Indonesia where a “you shall have your religion, and I shall have mine†tolerance dwarfs pockets of radicalism.
The United States has an Islam problem. Say the name of the religion of almost 20 percent of the world’s population and images of bearded, Wahhabi extremists surge. They reflect a reductive unease born of 9/11 and ignorance. A central challenge of the next president will be reinventing America’s relations with the Islamic world, and stimulating open dialogue between Muslims.
Obama has lived with Islam, from his boyhood Indonesia to a later encounter with the similarly malleable Islamic faith of Kenyan relatives. He can situate Saudi Wahhabism as one current among many. With Islam as with most things, it’s better to deal with a multi-faced reality than simplified demons.
I’m troubled by Hillary Clinton’s recent innuendo-dripping remark that her Christian faith “is the faith of my parents and my grandparents.†As opposed, of course, to Obama, who came to Christianity from a mother whose “secular humanism†held that “rational, thoughtful people could shape their own destiny,†and a Kenyan father born into a Muslim family, and a Muslim stepfather.
We live in the Age of Interaction. Fluidity and connectedness define the world, forging hybrid identities not fixed in formaldehyde. Clinton, on an Obama-is-aloof kick, now says she’s a pro-gun churchgoer. That may play in west Pennsylvania but won’t bridge the national and international chasms Bush bequeaths.
“I used to support Hillary, but now I look at her eyes and see someone always wired, always calculating, whereas in Berry I see some wisdom,†said Kisjanto.
I went to the school, where there’s a huge photograph of pilgrims at Mecca in the entrance; I imagined Fox News filming it one day to pronounce the place a Madrasa. It’s nothing of the sort. It’s a state school whose students are 85 percent Muslim, a little below the national average.
There’s a mosque and a small Christian prayer room with a sign saying: “I understand we are all different and include everyone.†Kuwadiyanto, the principal, told me: “Christians and Muslim kids mix easily. Maybe more Americans should come here to see what’s really happening.â€
Obama already has. He’s shed his chubbiness but not Indonesia’s lesson, emblazoned on the national coat of arms, of “unity in diversity.â€
hisurfer
Some follow up:
I just checked the HRC website. The leadership is not “ALL WHITE” (and what’s with all the capitals?).
I just checked Ann Arbor Demographics. It is 75% caucasian. Not “LILY WHITE”. Whew. I was starting to worry that they’d ethnically cleansed my old neighborhood.
You asked what gay civil rights group discusses racial issues. Did you miss all the uproar when the national gay organizations opined on the Jenna case?
Mr C
Hisurfer,
I never said said Ann Arbor was Lily white I said AA was a predominately white and collegiate town. I said the clubs in SF are Lily White. And what Black person in an HRC leadership position has ever made any attempts to discuss issues with The Black LGBT and for that matter HRC period?
And as far as Jena is concern. HRC sent some one to report on it. Not march with them. And I read that from their website at the time of the march. The did attend a pre-jena rally elsewhere.
But I do agree that the rhetoric needs to move with the times
MJ
Ugh! How ironic. What a place to be, Charley. The ghetto high-murder dump of Durham, NC. Like a third world nation there. The place that actually invited the homophobic New Black Panthers to scream death threats at the Duke lacrosse boys. Where black activist homophobe Victoria Peterson screamed for the Panthers to set the lacrosse house on fire. Ooops, this will probably get deleted….Queerty still insists those boys (being white heterosexuals) were guilty of rape and queer-bashing.
Mr C
I didn’t know that Durham was a ghetto high murder dump. What about the white trailer parks that have the same issues but doesn’t make the evening news???
MJ
Mr. C : The white trailer parks don’t have the same murder rate that you see in Durham’s black population. And Durham’s black murder rate does NOT make the evening news. Neither did the black murder of a gay man in 2005. Too politically incorrect. The press, and Queerty, only got excited when white Caucasians were accused of doing something. [email protected]
MJ
P.S. : Obama WAS the only Democrat candidate to speak up on the travesty of the Duke case. I know he’s just a politician (like the others), and all he says must be taken with a grain of salt, but still….gotta give him some credit for that. (The others, including Edwards right there in NC, were silent).
Tom
How did this conversation go from Obama speaks to gay press to the murder rate in Durham, NC? And will someone please email MJ at his aol address…damn he/she seems lonely and insecure.
MJ
Oh, I see Tom. Pointing out the blatant lies about innocent people on Queerty, and then posting my email address (unlike others who hide their contact info.) means I’m lonely and insecure? How do you figure? (And if you can’t see how this thread didn’t lead directly into the crime rate in Durham……)
Charley
Pam of Durham at PamsHouseBlend never reports any unfavorable black crime in Durham. Like Edwards, does seem strange. There are 24 hour guards where I am staying at Duke, presumedly for a reason. I expect a riot in Durham if super delegates vote Hilary as the Dem. candidate.