Deafening Silence

Obama Pretends There’s No Such Thing As Prop 8 During California Visit


Even though gay-friendly super-producer Jeffrey Katzenberg introduced him, and even included a mention of Prop 8, President Obama once again continued his Tour Of Silence and had exactly zero words on the civil rights of Californians as he racked up $4 million for the DNC in Beverly Hills last night.

“If you look in the dictionary under ‘grace under fire,’ it will say Barack Obama,” Katzenberg said. “The California economy is bleak. The state budget is crisis. And Democrats are riled up over a Supreme Court ruling this week that upheld the ban on gay marriage.” Then out came Obama, who dismissed all of that with nary a mention of the groundbreaking news that just went down.

We get it, Barack: You’re in town to raise cash for the DNC, and talking about marriage equality (which you’re against) isn’t good dinner party fare. But your guests already sent in their $30,000 cheques, and the least you could do for the folks giving you cash — especially in the liberal enclave of Tinsletown! — is address the civil rights of the millions of gay Americans who voted for you, and at least the few dozen who were seated at your event.

Obama’s silence, meanwhile, meant all those 200 demonstrators lined up outside the Beverly Hills Hotel … became protesters. Among them, First Lt. Dan Choi, who Obama turned a blind eye when he was kicked out of the Army under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, who criticized the president for his “message of silence. Sometimes silence speaks so loudly. Sometimes silence speaks so eloquently. Sometimes silence speaks so much louder than words. Not today. … I give a message to President Obama: Repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Stop forcing our soldiers to lie. Stop forcing our soldiers to hide. Stop forcing our soldiers to be injected with the closet. And let them be free to serve.”

UPDATE: AP reports: “Obama said he could not hear the protesters’ exact words, but he agreed with one who shouted that the president should keep his promises.” Sad, or funny?

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  • InExile

    Well Obama apologists, he did not even have the decency to say ONE WORD to these people protesting at The Beverly Hilton!

    Now do you get it?

  • scottie

    @ inexile: I’d guess they’ll be whining ‘he’s got other things on his mind’ until the day we get rid of him!

  • unclemike

    I knew he was a centrist when I voted for him, and never thought of him as my own personal savior, just a very good politician. And, since I’m an adult, I can still be happy I voted for him to run the country and, at the same time, be very disappointed in the way he’s dealt with LGBT issues since taking office.

  • Zack

    Come on everyone, chill out – it’s not like he was going to go up to the protestors and talk to them. Do you have any idea what kind of secret service nightmare that would have been? No way! If you know anything about presidential policy, you’d know there was no way that was going to happen (@inexile).

    Second, there WILL be a MAJOR LGBT policy outreach before the anniversary of the Stonewall.

    As a gay, progressive man who lives in DC, I completely understand the frustration that comes from Obama not reaching out directly to the LGBT community. Let’s please remember that the man has been in office less than 6 months – with a lot to deal with.

    We’ll get our day, we just have to wait a few more weeks.

  • martymartymarty

    What UNCLEMIKE said!!! =]

  • schlukitz

    Wow! What an excellent spokesperson Dan Choi is for the civil-rights of LGBT community. He spoke with the eloquence of a Martin Luther King.

    Have we, finally, found our leader?

  • Landon Bryce


    1. Are you basing your confidence that there WILL be a statement from the White House before Stonewall on anything other than this deliberate and well-intending rumor-mongering from Howard Berman?

    “I think the White House is preparing to make an announcement on a number of issues … I’m predicting here, not informing, that by the Stonewall anniversary we will have a very clear picture of what the administration is doing.”

    That’s all I’ve seen, and I’m afraid you may be setting people up for something that is unlikely to happen. Are you basing your confidence on anything else?

    Or maybe you will be satisfied with a written statement of support for gay pride with no policy movement or specific promises. I predict that we will get that and a sentence or two basically repeating his Ebenezer Baptist statements in a general speech. If that’s enough for you, you may be happy. If that’s all he offers you, will you share the growing sense that the president is simply indifferent to gay people?

    2. Since the president will not create any security problems by responding to the protesters’ concerns today, should I be waiting for his response? I don’t think so, and I think you that makes your defense of his silence pretty dishonest.

  • schlukitz


    “Second, there WILL be a MAJOR LGBT policy outreach before the anniversary of the Stonewall..

    I too would like to ask the same question Landon Bryce just did.

    On what concrete evidence do you base your confidence that there WILL be a statement from the White House before Stonewall?

  • Captain Freedom

    @schlukitz: Dan Choi is amazing and an eloquent spokesman… but he’s not the only one. Gays don’t need an MLK. We need many voices. When it becomes people over principles then we become a religion like the Obama folks who rallied for him w the Os and said Yes We Can like a church chant.

    We have Ellen DeGeneres, Maddow, Dustin Lance Black, Mark Leno in SF, all of Hollywood, Gene Robinson, etc… in fact we have more public support on our side than blacks did even through the 1980s. People never warmed up to interracial marriage 50/50 until 1990!

  • scottie

    Zack, all the man needs to do is make one simple statement on the issue…that’s all. Hardly expecting a lot is it?

  • VotedForHillary

    For everyon who keeps screaming “wait” Didn’t Martin Luther Kin’s say something about Justice Delayed Is Justice Denied? How many soldiers will have their careers in the miliatary ruined while we “wait”. How many americans will have their marriage rights trampled on while we “wait”

  • Alton C


    I think our concern is that this silence comes from a president who is more than willing to spew rhetoric on a host of difficult issues and do it with grace and style and candor that makes everyone feel squishy inside. This is a president who’s oratorical gifting allows him to navigate tough issues like race, torture, and abortion with ease. For him to go to CA the day after this decision to ask for money to support his political party at a moment when a community that was overwhelmingly supportive of his campaign is questioning his commitment to their issues and not even mention the fact some of those people are protesting outside the building proves to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that this man is the exact type of politician he said he was not. Of course, he could save his rhetoric and actually do something, and we would all shut up.

  • Zack

    Wow, lots of comments here…

    So yes, I do know that there will be a major announcement coming from the White House on LGBT issues in the upcoming weeks and months, and no, this information isn’t coming from Berman.

    If Obama had come out of inauguration and began immediate super progress on LGBT issues, he would be hurting his administration. LGBT issues are obviously a hot-topic, and for Obama to get some of his priorities accomplished, he can’t be 100% progressive liberal all the time, he can’t work on major social issues right away or he’ll sacrifice important progress to be made later. Though the Republicans are a minority, they still have a lot of power in federal lawmaking. He’s playing his cards well.

    I hope you all don’t think I’m not disappointed – I am. I wish he had already said something, or done something important for our community, but please remember that in politics, tiptoeing on eggshells is how a lot of business gets accomplished. It’s not like he’s against us. This is the most LGBT-friendly President in our long history, and the way that some of the people on these blogs comment on him, you’d think we were talking about someone else.

    Just give the guy some time.

  • schlukitz

    @Captain Freedom:

    Your points are well taken.

    All of the people you have mentioned and then some, are doing a wonderful job of speaking out for our community and are to be highly commended for doing so.

    There is no doubt that teamwork is what it will take to win this battle.

  • Michael W.

    @scottie: Get rid of him? Says who? He hasn’t done anything that warrants being thrown out of office in place of a Republican opponent.

    Have you forgotten that the Federal Marriage Amendment has no chance of passing under him and the Democratically controlled congress? Or that Obama is ready to sign any piece of pro-LGBT legislation into law that reaches his desk, such as the Matthew Shepard Act and full repeal of DOMA? Have you ignored the increase of the most basic but needed rights for gay employees and their partners finally granted under the Obama State Department that were forbidden during the previous Republican administration?

    If you “get rid of him,” it won’t be during the Democratic primary. It would be during the 2012 election in which he’d be replaced with a Republican who would likely be an enemy rather than a silent ally.

    Pull your head out of your ass.

  • paulied

    The only weapon we have ever really had is our money. Just look at the way that Manchester hotel weasel came crawling to us. I propose that members of the LGBT community who donated to his campaign contest the charge on their credit card. He promised to be a fierce advocate for us and so far has done NOTHING; we did not get what we paid for. This is classic bait and switch, the same as if WalMart or Target had done it to us. I’m sure it wouldn’t actually work, but I’m certain it would get the attention of the media and hopefully, finally of the president.

  • edgyguy1426

    I was wondering how long it would take to see Obama’s face on posters like these…I think (the 2000) election notwithstanding) it took a lot longer to see Bush’s face on such posters-and maybe overseas first. But I thought it was gonna be a long time before it happened.
    And, yes, Michael W., Obama is ready to sign this legislation when it reaches his desk…if that’s what leaders do.

  • troy


    “Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed:”

    We must pressure, we must hold Obama’s feet to the fire, we must DEMAND, not ask,
    not expect to be given anything from him. He is a politician, not M. L. King, men like that don’t go into politics because you cannot retain your soul, your spirit and live in truth and be a part of that. So lets accept what Obama is and invest our power and faith in our selves because thats how we will reach the mountain top.

  • Tom in Lazybrook

    @Michael W.:

    Micheal, one can vociferously protest the Dems while still understanding that the GOP isn’t better.

    The Dems and Obama are taking us for granted. If ENDA isn’t passed and DADT repealed this term, I don’t care if the GOP wins, because those are my issues. And I donated THOUSANDS (thats plural) to the Dems over the last two cycles.

    We’ll get more respect from the Dems when we show that we’re willing to sit on our hands even if that means a Republican gets elected. As of now, that’s what my plans are for the next election. I’m going to put as much of a priority on voting and donating as Obama has on LGBT equality issues.

    The Dems need to EARN our votes.

  • Tom in Lazybrook

    @Michael W.:

    The old game of “where are they gonna go” is one that I believe that the Obama Administration is using on us.

    They have shown themselves completely unwilling to address any of their direct promises to our community. And I’m beginning to think its deliberate.

    We do have choices.

    1) We can cut off the fundraising machine. And that also goes for the ‘go along to get along’ so called ‘gay leaders’ that are only too willing to sign off on delays.
    2) We can stay home next election day
    3) We can cause problems in elections where there the Democrat is just as bad or WORSE than the GOP candidate. For example, anti-Gay Democrat Artur Davis is running for Governor of Alabama, Cong., Pro Gay Republican Anh Cao is running for reelection in Lousiana, Anti-Gay Democrat Chris Carney of Pennsylvannia, etc.

  • DaveO

    Last fall, though already vastly outspending McCain, they came right to West Hollywood to raise cash for the presidential campaign in the middle of the fight against Prop 8 itself. That money could have gone to a more urgent cause.

  • Michael @


    “‘One of [the protest signs] said, ‘Obama keep your promise,’ ‘ the president said. ‘I thought that’s fair. I DON’T KNOW WHICH PROMISE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.’ The people in the audience – who paid $30,400 per couple to attend – laughed as they ate a dinner of roasted tenderloin, grilled organic chicken and sun choke rosemary mashed potatoes.”

    If I could read the end DADT, marriage equality signs, see the rainbow flags, in the split second they were on my TV screen then he damn well could read them from the windows of the Presidential limo/SUV a few yards away. Even if he couldn’t, IF he cared, he damn well could have asked someone to find out.

    But, hey, this is another historical marker for him, placing him along side homophobic Dean Rusk [Pres. Johnson’s Secty of State] who mocked gays demonstrating outside the State Dept. in 1965, and homophobic VP George Bush who mocked gays demonstrating against Reagan’s passive genocide in 1987.


  • Landon Bryce


    Good to hear. What’s your source?

  • Landon Bryce

    @DaveO: And the idiots who gave it to them are the ones to blame, not Obama. It’s Andrew Tobias’s friends that disgust me, the gays that give and give to Dems no matter what.

    There should be NO ONE at the DNC LGBT fundraiser in June: those who attend should be shunned and shamed. The Dems should be scared shitless about the gay money drying up, and the gays who are giving it to them today are among the principle enemies of our equality.

  • OldFAQ

    I’m getting really tired of the “Oh, but he’s only been in the White House for 5 months” crap. That’s a lame excuse to dish out to his gay constituency. We voted for him, contributed to his campaign, knocked on doors and attended many Obama rallys. What do we have to show for our support? Nada. To date, anything being accomplished on the ground is due to the efforts of gay people all over this country. Obama gets zip credit. His words are eloquent and can inspire – sadly, we hear no such words of hope or encouragement coming from his White House. The biggest assest Obama had with our community were the bonds of trust he built throughout his candidacy. Now in 2009, he is in serious jeopardy of losing these bonds – through his own neglect. The gay community hasn’t walked away from Obama but can we say the same of him?

  • scottie

    @ Michael W: says who? says me. And I’d like to think I’m perfectly entitled to voice MY opinion without being insulted by the likes of you. In a debate about ‘equality’ I’d like to think my opinions are equal to yours without being told to ‘pull my head out of my ass’

  • InExile

    The fact of the matter is Barack Obama has never said much about LGBT issues. even during the campaign he was silent until he realized most gays were supporting Hillary Clinton and she actually had a plan on her website. At that point he threw some words he once said about Stonewall and how far we have come and we still have a way to go. (THAT WAS IT!!!) The rest of the items on his website were listed by his minions without direct quotes from him. Until Hillary started speaking publicly about gay issues, Obama remained silent.

    My point is we as a community really did not have much to go on as to where Barack Obama stood on our issues. Of coarse after the dirty campaign he ran and with the help of Nancy Pelosi and Donna Brazil manipulating the primary which forced Hillary out, we had two choices to support Obama or McCain. Most of us supported Obama but my point is we still do not know if he “really” supports us or if we were nothing but cash and votes to get him elected.

    His continued SILENCE seems to be answering the question!

  • Jeffrey

    The NY Times 5/28/09
    “protestors milled around outside The Beverly Hilton…They must have caught the president’s eye…because he relayed one of their messages to the crowd.

    “‘One of them said, ‘Obama keep your promise,’ ‘ the president said. ‘I thought that’s fair. I don’t know which promise he was talking about.”
    And he and the crowd laughed.

    I saw the clip of him doing this.
    I was protesting there.
    It’s not funny.

    Obama just shredded the last bit of hope that I had for him to actually honor his promises to us.
    It’s bad enough to be silent; it’s quite another to make jokes about us.
    He’s got a LOT of ‘splainin to do.

  • SM

    The March on Washington came 2 1/2 years after Kennedy had been in office. Not 3 months

    MLK took great pains not to alienate the most civil rights-friendly president of his lifetime.

    MLK “petitioned” the president hard but respectfully. He did the same thing with LBJ.

    The gay community lashes out so easily.

    It’s also a Democratic Problem and not an Obama Problem.

    You all are so ticked at Obama but it was the No On Prop 8 Camapign that did not use his letter in the camapign.


  • Hannah

    I was always under the impression Obama was anti gay marriage. He said some pretty words during the campaign but at the end of the day hes the same as all the rich christian politicians….anti gay marriage. Biden also said so during the debates he wasn’t for gay marriage and then covered it up with pretty words.

    Its a shame because we do need this change in equality but I don’t think its going to come through the white house.

  • Landon Bryce


    Enough with the lie about No on 8 not using that statement. They used it. The trouble was that it was worded deliberately in a way that made it impossible to use effectively. The bigger prob;em was that he NEVER EVER EVER said a public fucking word that could be used by our side. Part of his bending over to let Rick Warren fuck US was his VERY public statements, used in Robocalls that his campaign was asked to stop and refused to do so– that he believed gays should not have legal marriage rights because of his religious beliefs.

    They used it. The problem is that it was unusable and no one noticed.

    Actually, the problem is that Obama has been so shitty on gay issues thus far that his gay supporters have to LIE to make themselves look lijke anything other than idiots.

  • Michael @


    Good lord. Please, for your own sake, for your momma’s sake, find some other way to make excuses for Obama other than showing your abysmal, inexcusable, embarrassing, laughable, pathetic ignorance of the evolution of the black civil rights movement as if it started with the August 1963 March of Washington.

    Jesus wept.

  • M Shane

    @Zack , you’re right of course. The self centered people who believe that our presumed cause is the only issue to attack is ignorant and shortsighted. The matters of restoring the constitution and correcting the growing Depression have too be first and formost. There is no point for him to take chances on unpopular issues until he has established credability ofn others.

    Also there is nothing anti-gay about being pro civil unions; it’s a position that many gay people take.

  • SM

    @Landon Bryce:

    They used it? I never saw it. I actually saw the No On Prop 8 campaign admit they did not use it.

    Obama has been shitty on gay issues?

    For just 3 months in office-

    The Matthew Shepard Act is on its way to the Senate

    He has given @ 30 gay people Jobs in his Administration and included them in White House activities.

    The Defense Department is giving equal benefits to partners

    Several States have now allowed gay marriage- never would have seen that happen if McCain had won.

    You all do not look at how much faster you will achieve equality issues state by state just by having him in office- try doing that with McCcain and Palin ruling Washington.

  • Alec

    @M Shane: Also there is nothing anti-gay about being pro civil unions; it’s a position that many gay people take.

    Maybe. There’s nothing inherently anti-gay about civil unions, certainly. But is this statement anti-gay?

    “Homosexual couples are not equivalent to heterosexual couples. Homosexual couples should not have access to the institution of marriage, but they may be given access to alternative arrangements, including civil unions.”

    I’d say that position is pretty anti-gay.

  • paulied

    @M Shane: I don’t know ANY gay people who are satisfied with that second-rate civil union position; sure we’ll take it in the meantime if it means some protections for our families, but it is unacceptable.

  • Landon Bryce

    @SM: They admitted that that they should have tried to figure out a way to use it more when crazed Obamatons like yourself were foaming at them. And they should have. They did a bad job.

    But after:

    Rick Warren being honored

    Gene Robinson being censored

    No cabinet level appointments of out gay or lesbian people

    No support for marriage equality or civil unions in his public statements

    Nothing done on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, backpedalling on language from “repeal” to “change” until pushed to change it back

    Judy Shepherd invited in for a ten minute meeting that devolved into a 90 second photo op

    Repeated jokes at the expense of gay rights

    Dozens of gay men murdered in Iraq while the military Obama commands does nothing to stop it

    At least two kids kill themselves because people say they’re gay and Obama has done ONE THING to show he gives a shit.

    I appreciate his support for the hate crimes bill, I really do.

    But yeah, his record on LGBT issues as president thus far is unambiguously shitty.

  • Bill Perdue

    @unclemike: How very adult of you to dismiss Obama’s open hostility towards the LGBT agenda as “disappointing”.

    It was a bit more than disappointing when he galvanized and sponsored the bigot vote for Prop 8 saying ‘gawd’s in the mix”. It was deliberate sabotage. He gave the theocrats the ammunition they needed to pass Hate8.

    How very adult of you to support Obama’s role as lap dog for the rich looters who wrecked the economy. He hands them trillions to pay off their bad debt but orders union workers to adopt austerity measures.

    How very adult of you to support Obama’s decisio9n to continue rendition, aka, kidnap-murder, to attack the constitution with votes for FISA and the Paytriot Act.

    How very adult of you to support Obama’s war of terror on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and the needless deaths and maiming of GI’s to raise the profit margins of Haliburton and Chevron-Texaco.

    I don’t mean to be rude but you must be a Democrat or a Republican.

  • Michael @


    Stop, please! You’re sinking deeper and deeper in the quicksand of your excuses, distortions, and black and white cluelessness.

    It’s the STATE DEPARTMENT, not the Defense Department, that plans to give same gender partners of employees the same rights as straight marrieds. Whether or not he was involved, it was Evil Incarnate, er Hillary Clinton who led that change.

    Then there’s your entire fools parade of “after this therefore because of this” logical fallacies:

    The Matthew Shepard Act is NOT on its way to the Senate because of Obama.

    Obama has had NOTHING to do with “several States have now allowed gay marriage” any more than McShame could have stopped them.

    As for his hiring gays being the certification of his sainthood, sorry to burst ANOTHER bubble but Mr. Clinton established that precedent and, in fact, most of the people at the top of Obama’s hire list are THE SAME PEOPLE that Mr. Clinton hired. I guess it isn’t just the text of other people’s speeches such as MA governor Deval Patrick that he steals.

    Given your insistence that Obama is the most gay luvin president ever, it follows that not only will he declare June gay pride month as Mr. Clinton did in his last two years, but also we’ll see march in a gay pride parade because Mr. Clinton never did. Right? And First Lady Michelle will absolutely have to given that First Lady You Know Who did.

    But back to last night, regardless of the demonstrations outside, inside this was a Democratic fundraiser…not another whoring for bigots’ votes at St. Rick’s Basilica…. in still the most liberal state in the country, the day after it saw another landmark in the rapidly escalating war for gay equality… and, setting aside how many ‘Mos were sure to be in the audience, one of the organizers was DAVID GEFFEN….you know the GAY HOMOSEXUAL KINSEY 6 SODOMITE FEYGELA billionaire who switched his support from H to O during the primaries?

    And another one of the organizers was straight Steven Spielberg who gave $100,000 against Prop H8TE. The organizer who introduced him [and apparently mentioned 8 at some point in the evening], Jeffrey Katzenberg, gave $25,000 to stop H8TE.

    This was THE PERFECT audience for him to end his deafening INSULTING silence since his swearing in on his several and EXPLICIT promises to LGBTs to immediately become actively involved in advancing our equality.

    He could have used his fabled eloquence to AT LEAST address his hosts/major contributors’ pain in the court’s decision. He could have invested just a couple of minutes in acknowledging the fact that his promises have [AT BEST] stalled, and offered some reasoned explanations why. He could have at least simply done what helped win him the nomination…simply dropped the G-word.

    INSTEAD he made a joke…correction, he made US a joke.

  • InExile

    @Alec: That statement is very anti-gay! Makes it sound like we are less than second class citizens. Who said that? BO?

  • paulied

    @Michael @ Well, after all, he did let us in for the Easter Egg Roll! Money well spent, let’s keep the gravy train rollin’ along!

  • schlukitz

    @Landon Bryce:
    @Bill Perdue:
    @Michael @

    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!!!

    Landon, the only person you left out at the top of your list, was Donnie McClurkin, the ex-gay minister (re-closeted?) and biological father of a child spawned by the porking of a woman to whom he was not married.

  • schlukitz


    Your post no. 28 was excellent, InExile. My feelings exactly.

  • Jeff

    Is it just me, or does anybody find Dan Choi to be really annoying? And if we’re appealing to the mainstream, the worst spokesman to have is some asian dude. As non P.C. as this sounds, we need a handsome, boy-next-door looking white guy. Dan Choi, I find him annoying, but for different reasons than uninformed straight people would. They might think of homosexuality as something that only “happens to minorities”. White boys need to stop becoming porn models and start representing the gay community instead of people like Dan Choi. Let the hating begin.

  • James

    “‘One of them said, ‘Obama keep your promise,’ ‘ the president said. ‘I thought that’s fair. I don’t know which promise he was talking about.”

    And he and the crowd laughed.

    Obama to gays, you are nothing but a punch line for me. Thinking Hillary was the wiser choice and gays fell for the smooth talker.

  • John

    Obama does not need votes or need to worry about sending text messages pleaing for more $25 donations. I feel dirty and used.

  • schlukitz


    “As non P.C. as this sounds,…”

    “Let the hating begin.”

    Since you are obviously aware of that fact already, there really isn’t any need to bring it to your attention, is there?

    “And if we’re appealing to the mainstream, the worst spokesman to have is some Asian dude.”

    Umm…try subbing the word “black” for “Asian” and see how that plays back?

    At least have enough respect for an American minority service person to capitalize the word Asian.

    Frankly, I found your entire post not only really annoying, but very offensive as well.

  • paulied

    @Jeff: No, the worst spokeman we could have is a racist. Dan Choi is one of the few heros our civil rights movement has produced.

  • Jess

    I’ve heard from several of my gay minority friends that their communities often think of homosexuality as a “white thing”, so I think having an Asian man as a representative of the LGBT community could be very good to show that LGBT people are from all cultures and backgrounds. Besides, we already have lots of prominant white LGBT people- at this point, anyone who is informed and passionate about the rights of the community should be welcomed as another potential leader.

    I’m not suprised that Obama is attempting to ignore the results of the contention over Prop 8. Any highly controversial area is usually left alone by politicians unless they know for sure how they can use it to their advantage.

    However, with same-sex marriage legalized in Connecticut and Iowa, and soon to be legal in Vermont and Maine, it shows that once ordinary people come together they can accomplish more than politicians, who above all are worried about keeping their own jobs. Although the Prop 8 ruling is discouraging, I think we have a lot to be proud of and should keep fighting until America realizes LGBT people are no different from straight people and deserve all the same rights that they do.

  • yeson8won

    @Jess: I think we have a lot to be proud of and should keep fighting until America realizes LGBT people are no different from straight people and deserve all the same rights that they do.

    You are right – almost. The only way you are different from straight people is your deviant sexual preferences. You may not agree with the word ‘deviant’ but that’s how most people see you.

    And you already have all the same rights that they do! And special protections in some areas of the law.

    Until you accept these truths, as held to be self-evident by the majority of your fellow Americans, there can be no progress.

  • yeson8won

    Choi deserves respect for serving his country, and he could have continued doing so if he hadn’t broken the rule on DADT.

    The decision on ending DADT should be made – not by politicians or Special Interest Groups in the GBLT community – but by the men and women who have to serve alongside homosexuals in the military.

    No doubt many of them feel uncomfortable having to share accommodation in close quarters, showering facilities, etc with people who may have a sexual interest in them.

    Allowing openly homosexual service members to have open access like this is no different from allowing heterosexual men and women to billet together.

  • Jess

    @yeson8won- Maybe some of them do feel uncomfortable having to be in close contact with people who may have sexual interest in them. However, the average (gay) person has common sense. They’re not going to approach someone whom they know is straight, uninterested, and armed. There could be some misunderstanding that led to an uncomfortable situation, but shouldn’t soldiers, men who are protecting and representing our country, be mature enough to handle it?

    The British seem to be able to. The UK allows gay and bisexual people to serve openly in their military. Other countries that allow this are Argentina, Australia, Canada, Germany, Israel, The Netherlands, New Zealand, The Phillipeans, Romania, Switzerland, and Uruguay. Two countries that allow it but have markedly homophobic environments are Italy and Bermuda. This suggests that it is mainly the culture of a country that influences problems between hetero and homosexual soldiers, not their simple interaction. I don’t see Germany falling apart anytime soon because of their policies.

    Remember those people called the Greeks and the Romans? At certain periods in their history, they encouraged relationships between older and younger men, partly to INCREASE the group cohesion of troops. This behavior was seen as morally acceptable by society at large. These cultures didn’t do so badly for themselves when it came to the military.

  • schlukitz


    Jess, your commentary is concise, factual, well documented and intelligently stated.

    Unfortunately, our friend, who has repeatedly demonstrated his inability or desire to assimilate data that can and has been consistently and scientifically documented, will most likely chose to just side-step it, or ignore it altogether with another misinformed comeback that is insulting, lacking any documentation or evidence and simply over the top.

    In my time, we called trying to have an intelligent conversation with close-minded, homophobic and argumentative people like this “pissing into the wind”. I don’t know what it would be called in today’s vernacular. In any event, it appears to be a fucking waste of time and energy, whatever it’s called. lol

    But, Bless you for trying.

  • schlukitz

    Typo. “Chose”, in the second paragraph, should be “choose”.

  • Phil K.

    @Jeff: Omg, I totally agree. People here jump at him and call him offensive, but think of it this way. Barack Obama was a better candidate in politics, which is basically a stupid popularity contest, because he was less threatening and whiter than somebody like Jesse Jackson or dumb Roland Burris. Why is it wrong to want a more mainstream gay leader that appeals to a larger segment of society? We’re a white majority nation, and lets just be real about it: white people are better liked and make people feel more comfortable, especially since most people in the US are white. Isn’t that what we want, for people to feel comfortable around us?

    I mean this is me being gay and shallow, but I kind of find Dan Choi butt ugly. And shrill and annoying. Harvey Milk was irrepressible and enjoyable and made people happy, Dan Choi is one big pity queen.

  • Justin

    @unclemike: Thank you. My thoughts exactly. Would you all prefer McCain/Palin running the country right now in his place?

  • Landon Bryce


    I would absolutely prefer McCain when it came to the SCOTUS, shockingly. If he had nominated sixth Catholic who had a history of anti-abortion rulings to the court, she would not be confirmed to the court. Sotomayor will be and two-thirds of the Supreme Court will be members of a church that is vociferous in its hatred of gay people and consistent in treating the rapists of children much better than the children they rape. If you doubt that Sotomayor would have voted with Scalia in Lawrence v. Texas, you have not read her opinions.

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