Party stores must be running out of glitter: First Rick Santorum got splashed by Occupy Charleston members Saturday at a 
primary rally. Then, just a few hours later Dan Savage got glitter-bombed by trans activists at an appearance in Vancouver.This is the third time Savage has been bombed, compared to Santorum’s two. Does he have slower reflexes or something?
Canadian gay paper Xtra reports that six members of a group calling itself Homomilitia were behind the rainbow raid. Activist Fister Limp Wrist accused Savage of “ableist, racist, transphobic, fat-phobic, sero-phobic and rape-apologist attitudes and views.”
Really, you’re gonna take the P.C. high ground with a name like Fister Limp Wrist?
“Savage is taking on being a speaker and leader in this movement. We have to take that into account,” one of the activists told Xtra. “He’s part of a broader [group] of gay, white, cis-gendered, able-bodied gay men focused on gay-marriage priorities. We want to say those priorities are messed up.”
So now you’re taking control of the movement and deciding marriage equality isn’t important? Thanks for letting us know.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
I’ve interviewed Savage several times. (My first major story back in the late 1990s was a lengthy profile piece on him.) I’ve read his books and hundreds of his columns. I’ve listened to more than 50 episodes of the Savage Love podcast and even sat through The Kid, the dreadful musical about his decision to adopt a child with his partner, Terry.
Sure I disagree with some of his opinions. That’s what opinions are for. And I’m not going to argue he’s is theperfect spokesman for the movement: Some of his antics—like re-branding Santorum or licking doorknobs to get Gary Bauer sick—are just a little too juvenile.
And kind of gross.
But after all my experience with him and his views I
can say pretty confidently that he’s not anything-phobic. He tolerates, even triumphs, orientations, kinks, lifestyles and points of view that both I and Limp Wrist would turn our noses at.
What few examples Savage Haters can muster to prove he’s the son of Satan are snippets taken out of context from 21 years’ worth of columns, podcasts, lectures and books. Mahatma Gandhi could look like Fred Phelps under that kind of scrutiny.
Masculine Toast is just one blog tallying Savage’s so-called transphobic misdeeds. Compare the site’s abridged version to the original posts, though, and you’ll see how the full context and intention has been obliterated.
“But he said ‘tranny’ and ‘shemale!'” the Savage Haters cry. “He’s the gay Hitler!”
If you listen to Savage’s podcast or read his column with any regularity, you’d know the majority of his followers are straight. Savage is successful because he talks to them like a straight dude and still gets across
*that consenting adults should be free to pursue whatever brings them happiness.
*that old-school “till death do us part” monogamy isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone.
*That being sexually active means being knowledgeable about health risks, toys, positions—the works.
*That everyone deserves a partner who is good, giving and game for anything within reason (or “GGG” in Savage Speak)
Look, Dan Savage is not the president of GLAAD. He is not a professor of human sexuality. He is a person who talks in a conversational style while a mic records his opinions and advice. He might use the phrase “shemale” when talking to a 22-year-old college senior who’s freaking out about being attracted to trans women. But that’s because it’s the language that 22-year-olds understand. He uses it to disarm his readers, most of whom have been raised to be antagonistic toward—or at least suspicious of—anything that’s not once-a-week missionary-style heterosexuality.
In the end, you can bet Savage will tell that 22-year-old
A. that there’s nothing wrong with being trans,
B. there’s nothing wrong with being attracted to trans women and
C. go find a hot shemale and get yourself laid! (and send some photos).
If he spoke like an LGBT activist, Savage’s readership would dry up and all we’d have is Dear Abby telling us maybe not to bring our boyfriend to Mom’s third wedding if it’s going to upset her new husband.
What’s important is Savage’s message, not his vocabulary.
For the number of people Dan Savage has gotten to understand that heterosexuality is no more “normal” than homosexuality alone, he should be given an award, not be embarrassed in public. That’s not even including his work with the It Gets Better project or the dozens of cases of LGBT discrimination he’s been able to highlight in his column and ‘cast.
“Oh, but you’re just another white, male cisgendered homosexual—you’re just as bad as he is!” the Savage Haters claim.
Fine, don’t take it from me. Take it from trans porn star/activist/writer Buck Angel, who says “I stand by Dan. I really think he has done so much work bringing awareness to the world.”
I agree.
Photos: Erik Abderhalden
Cynthia Lee
This incessant jumping to Dan Savages rescue from the jaws of activists by the gay male population is driving a wedge into the LGBT. It has become the GGGG at this rate.
At every turn we say we are fed up with Savage we have gay men telling us how wrong we are.
Instead of doing an essay jumping to his defence, thus ensuring that your position in the gay male world is safe, why don’t you do an essay that shows why there are people in the LGBT who do not like the man and why we do not like him.
Jim
How about this: stop glitterbombing anyone. It’s completely counterproductive and can only make the target look good by shrugging it off. It makes the activists look crazy in most people’s eyes.
bop
@Cynthia Lee: The only one putting forth this “us vs. them” mentality is people like you, who apparently can’t accept incremental advancements without seeing it as a slight. If you don’t like it, round up all the T’s and get off the bus.
Dylan
Good thing this is an opinion column, because Savage is doing just as much damage as Pete Burns or Cynthia Nixon (bless her well-meaning heart, though.) The fact that someone likes him personally doesn’t account for the fact that he has singlehandedly spearheaded the Queer movement, turning it into the Gay White Everyman movement without so much as a vote from the L, B, T, Q, Q, I, A and P.
WJoaquin
@bop: Amen. I’m so tired of trannies trying to crucify people who actually aren’t their enemies. It’s foolishness and they’re only further isolating themselves.
JAW
@Cynthia Lee:
C L… I am not a fan of Dan’s either… so I just ignore him. BUT… I come to his defense when haters disrupt his speech. Glittering is soooo passe.. the mainstream news outlets are ignoring it… as are the GLBT outlets. Plus it is dangerous… last week someone threw the jar also, and if the glitter gets in someones eye it could cause permanent damage.
What does Dan say telling you how wrong you are???
Will
@Cynthia Lee:
Maybe its the incessent glitter-bombing of Dan Savage who has no real power when people like Tony Perkins, Matt Barber, Peter LaBarbera, the entire GOP party the REAL people who demonize the trans community seem to get off glitter free by the trans commnity activist.
Oh and I don;t like Dan Choi but you don;t se me running to the Hobby Lobby to glitter him.
Rebecca Juro
I think you’re kind of missing the point. It’s not as much about what Savage actually says (or doesn’t say) as much as it’s about where he’s saying it, in mainstream media which boasts a much larger audience than any of us can (currently) hope for. It’s that Savage uses his media reach irresponsibly and against the interests of LGBTs who don’t inhabit the same lofty social and financial strata he does.
When Savage goes on Olbermann and says that marriage and military service are the only items left on the LGBT political agenda (completely ignoring the 34 states in which transpeople have no basic civil rights and the 29 where gays don’t either), it deserves to be called out. When he makes nasty and/or ignorant comments about trans folks or others not like himself that deserves to be called too.
When you add in the fact that by saying this kind of stuff in mainstream media he’s actually doing damage to the movement, and he’s helping to make it less likely that these college activists will be able to find gainful employment once they graduate and enter an already-depressed job market, you can understand why there’s such a strong desire to fight back, discredit Savage, and make a contrary point as loudly and proudly as possible.
Personally, I think the answer here is to have a public discussion about how we, both as the greater LGBT community and within our individual letters, wish to be seen in mainstream media and how we can work to help bring that about. First and foremost, we have to engage with people like Dan Savage and say, in essence, “Excuse me, but could you please stop saying stupid, degrading, and harmful shit about us on cable news?”.
Whether it’ll actually happen or not, I don’t know, but I’m giving it my best shot. Yesterday I wrote to Savage and asked him if he’d appear on my show as a guest and take some questions from me and my listeners (yes, questions…those who are just looking to attack Savage for past offenses will not get on the show, those who want to ask questions, including challenging and provocative questions, will be welcome to participate).
Since I’m non-commercial and the size of my show audience is a relative flyspeck as compared to the media he normally appears in, I have no idea if Savage will agree to come on the show, but I hope he does. I think it would be a great interview on a topic that doesn’t get anywhere enough attention. I suppose we’ll see.
JAW
@Dylan:
I am confused… why pic on Pete and Cynthia? Neither fits into your “Gay White Everyman movement” Sounds like your agenda is that everyone else must conform to YOUR idea of sexuality.
Also… why did you leave off the GF, CD, F/E, U, among others… do they not fit into your narrow minded expectations of what we all are. Perhaps it is time that you are more welcoming to ALL people, and stop bashing others that are not a part of your agenda
Cynthia Lee
@Rebecca Juro:
Well said!
You should be writting on queerty instead of some of the hacks that do the work around here.
In my opinion it takes more than saying you are an advocate to be an advocate.
Chris
The “language of a 22 year old” is the most pathetic excuse I’ve heard yet. I’m 22, don’t insult me.
I don’t think he is a bigot, I just get annoyed when he seems to be fine with playing the role of “gay representative” on mainstream shows when he gives his personal opinions.
ladi-da
Ah, yes and here we go with the gay male bashing! How dare gay men have an opinion that differs from mine! How dare you! Look at your privilege!
The only person who can speak about this is me, because I’m the most oppressed!
EmmaMTF
I was just banned from the Transgender reddit for defending Dan Savage. The guy is cissexist and a little politically incorrect at times, but he’s definitely not transphobic, and DEFINITELY not the enemy. Fucking rabid trans people piss me off. Apparently, one of the other gripes they have is that he makes fun of fat people, but we can’t have that or the Fat Awareness Movement gets pissed. I’m beginning to see why we’re not doing as well as gay folks when it comes to rights if these are the kinds of people leading the trans rights movement.
Adam Sass
This in-fighting is pointless. We need to find common ground and move on, or we’ll not be able to sustain a movement. In-fighting leads to self-destruction, and it’s happening to the GOP as we speak. We have to be better than them.
Kurt
glitter bomb the trannies
JAW
@Kurt:
Now u have gone and done it… this thread will be up to 100 responses in an hour or two… The Trans community will be typing like crazy
Cynthia Lee
@Adam Sass:
We need to find common ground. Yes we do.
But why is it time and time again trans individules must yeild the debate to get progress?
We shouldn’t have to back off this one. There have been a number of people who have made it very clear why we have issues with Dan.
Instead of having our points acknowledged and adressed they are dismissed out of hand.
Dylan
@JAW: You’re right, you are confused. I wasn’t defending the cissexist white able-bodied male-identified movement that Savage is spreading wherever he’s interviewed. I wasn’t bashing anyone, nor did I give any indication as to my views on human sexuality. I don’t appreciate you projecting like that, given that you don’t know my identity from anyone else’s.
JAW
@Dylan:
Dylan… Your Quotw (not mine),,, “Savage is doing just as much damage as Pete Burns or Cynthia Nixon (bless her well-meaning heart, though.)”
so are you saying that savage is doing NO damage… or that Pete and Cynthia are?… If so… then what? I read it as you Bashing them all… that is what has be confused.
It also sounds like you are bashing any white, born male, gay… or did you… please explain and perhaps enlighten me
Thanks!
WillBFair
Savage is speaking in town in a month, and I’ll try to rose petal bomb him. Not because he’s so great, but because of the abuse he’s been shown.
After listening to a year’s contempt of trans people for gay culture and gay leaders, I’m done. If I had my way, we would remove the trans protections from enda. That was probably what destroyed it last time it was considered. And the trans community don’t deserve any more help from us.
lasagna king
I dont remember Savage ever saying or even suggesting anything like “and by the way, I speak for ALL LGBT people.”
The mainstream media came to him to be a talking head, not the other way around, because he was well-spoken and not attached to a political organization. If you think he’s claiming some kind of Presidency of the Gays, that’s on you not him.
And I still havent read anything that proves Savage is transphobic, just that he’s used some un-PC and maybe unfortunate wording. He still demands equal rights for trans people—he’s had many on his show and advised readers well abt trans issues. He’s just not always respectful in how he does it.
It sounds like a lot of people who have problems with Savage really have a problem with how the LGBT community is portrayed in the media period. Yes, white men are represented more than other parts of our community—that’s true in every part of America. Should trans (a smaller group) have a larger voice than anyone else?
Should Dan, who’s cisgendered, start claiming to speak for the trans community?
Will
@EmmaMTF:
Sometimes it seems its easier for trans activist to glitter Savage than actually fight for the passage of ENDA.
PRIORITIES PEOPLE
Miss Understood
@Cynthia Lee: We’ve read those arguments and they seem petty and nitpicky. I am utterly devoted to trans rights. I’ve been reading and listening to Dan Savage for years and I think treating him like the enemy is extremely misguided. This country is choc full of Bachmans and Gingriches and you choose to focus on an ally who may have a slightly different idea about appropriate terminology?
To they argument that gay men shouldn’t speak for the transgender community I would counter that a small group of nitpicky transpeople do not represent the wider trans community.
Morgan
How about instead of attacking people in out own community we focus on the people who compare is to Nazis?! That’s be swell. We make their job easier with so much finger pointing in our own community when we should focus on those who do actual damage to us.
shle896
Stop Glitter Bombing ANYBODY. It’s juvenile and it accomplishes nothing but make our side look petty and ignorant and foolish.
EmmaMTF
@Will: EXACTLY. Priorities are to get protections and NOT look like a fucking terrorist in size 15 stilettos. You’ll get more flies with honey, stop biting the hand that feeds you etc etc etc QUIT BEING DOUCHECUNTS and we’ll get the rights we want.
QJ201
Instead of attacking savage, why don’t people focus on their real enemies?
Go glitter bomb you local representative!
JayKay
1. Stop this glitter throwing bullshit entirely. You’re behaving like petulant, attention whoring children.
2. “Cissexist” is not a real word, and neither are most of these other newspeak buzzwords leftists are so keen on using as bludgeons against anyone who dare not conform to their insane worldview.
3. Radical trans activists are some of the most anti-gay human beings I’ve ever seen. They demand that we stop pushing our own agenda, drop everything, and rush to aid them in their pathetic little war on the heteronormative cisgender patriarchy. Any gay male who dares to speak up and tell them, “no, fuck off, it’s not our job to fight your battles for you” is immediately attacked and bombarded by a barrage of buzzwords like “ABLE-BODIED WHITE MALE PRIVILEGED CISSEXIST!” It’s sickening. Adding the T to the acronym was the dumbest, most politically suicidal decision gay activists ever made.
4. “Fat-phobic” LOL. Just LOL.
ladi-da
I’m sure asking my partner to wear a condom would make me “sero-phobic” in their eyes.
Doot
what a buncha hormonal bitches
Bobo
@cynthia lee, you are absolutely correct. Except it is just not GGGG, but middle class gay white males, more like GGGWM. When prop 8 passed, Dan Savage was the first to throw people of color under the bus and blame black voters for prop 8. The way the current narrative is going, the gay community is attempting to ape the same power structures, inequalities, and heirarchies of the heterosexual status quo. Of course they are going to be defensive and rage, this is their chance to join the realm of the masters, and enjoy power and priviledges at the expense of others. Also queerty isn’t known for being any where near the professional standards of journalism or brilliant commentary, it is more like US weekly or Star magazine, i don’t even know why i even bother to come to this stupid website when there is so much better and insightful stuff out there. (hmmm.)
Charlie
Yes savage uses the word “tranny” on his show but he also refers to himself as a “faggot” on his own show. He’s not afraid of those words, and he will pretty much always choose the most extreme way to express his opinion because it keeps people listening.
I don’t want to minimize the situation Trans folks are in, they are the most maligned, most abused quarter of the LGBT tribe. They receive a lot of really unfair abuse and it makes sense to me that they are sensitive. Gay men (I’m one) are told we are “too sensitive” when we are offended by commercials, we should be able to understand.
Here’s what you do, call him and leave a message about what he said that you do not like. When a transwoman called to tell Dan his advice in a previous episode hurt her he played it on the message on the air. He never claimed to be perfect.
Also, the Santorum move was hilarious.
Mike in Asheville
@Rebecca Juro: Apparently you have read the various posts, and yet you suggest we can Kumbaya an agenda that all Gs, Ls, Bs, and Ts across the vast sociopolitical-religious-family spectrum???
As a group, we can’t even agree on whether Neil Patrick Harris should be applauded for coming out and promoting the gay community by example OR NPH is a douche for not coming out earlier OR NPH is a media whore. We can’t agree whether Anderson Cooper is out OR not. AND PER THIS POST, we can’t agree on whether the word “tranny” is appropriate OR offensive?
AND APPARENTLY, Canadian transsexuals, who each and every one of them already have the legal right to marry the consenting adult of their choice and have that marriage recognized by the Canadian federal and provincial governments, think that American gays and lesbians should forgo equal treatment for ourselves so that their voice on transsexual issues is not diminished with our demands that we receive the same marriage benefits they already enjoy.
******************
There is NO singular voice for Gs, Ls, Bs, Ts; there is not even a singular voice within each letter. Those morons at GOProud, today, tweeted that each of the GOP candidates (Gingrich, Santorum, Romney, Paul) would be presidents than Obama.
JAW
@Bobo:
Sorry to disagree with you… Savage did not throw people of color under the bus… actually they threw us under the bus…
“Support for Proposition 8 was strong amongst African American voters, interviewed in the exit poll with 70% in favor, more than any other racial group.[146] The high-profile candidacy of Barack Obama is credited with increasing black turnout on the bill which has been seen as the crucial difference in its passing.[147][148] Subsequent analysis showed black support at only 58%, still above the 52% support received by all voters”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8
One of the largest groups that is Anti same sex marriage are blacks across the counter… They are even more against us then most Catholics.
Please do your homework before making statements that you cannot back up
Bobo
Plus i LOVE that bit at the end where the authors drags out Buck Angel and effectively states “look, here’s a trans person who is towing the line!”. It is a CLASSIC move to try to silence critique, white feminists used to do this all the time when women of color wanted to address concerns about racism in the women’s movement, they’d drag out a woman color to try and shut people up. Without adequately addressing issues, you have a groupthink situation going on, and that is always headed for a fail.
Alex
Anyone with a brain and a basic knowledge of the English language can see that Dan Savage’s comments are transphobic.
Cam
@Rebecca Juro:
One thing I notice is this…
You say a lot of things that Dan Savage has supposedly said or done. But the LAST time somebody was on here claiming all the evil things he had supposedly said they were lying.
If you can’t provide links then I cannot believe you.
Wesley Horace
nobody should be glitter bombing anybody. its a retarded tactic that only peta would stoop to.
FunMe
Thank you! STOP those stupid glitter bombs, which are waaaaaaaaaaay stupid and not effective as a protest demonstration. Dan Savage is definitely NOT the enemy, so you T boys and girls should stop it now!
JAW
@Cam:
Cam… I fully agree with you… people make nasty comments on here, and other sites… then can’t back them up… or ignore and do not respond…
Examples from today include… Dylan and Bobo have both done that to me
This is the problem with the web, and talk radio… people make a statement, out of the blue, and it spreads like wild fire… It does not matter if the statement is false, but then becomes a new standard.
Tackle
@JAW: No you are wrong. And giving out incorrect information… The exit poll that you speak of (70 percent) only involved a small number of Blacks, around 59 people. And it was taken at a polling place/location with a majority of Black voters.
And the final vote from Blacks was not 58%. It was 49%.
And what you are failing to mentioned, is even if the 58% number was correct, it still would have made NO difference. Because the acatual VOTE, that really counts and determines the outcome, is the ELECTROL COLLEGE VOTE. Which Blacks only make up 9%. At 9%, Blacks couldn’t swing prop 8 either way.
And the idea that Blacks as a whole did more damage then the Catholic Church is crazy. The Catholic Church spent two years with thousands of members raising MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars to defeat prop8. And the Catholic Church is over 93 percent White.
No All Black Church come close to that.
Yes. Homework shoud be done.
alan brickman
Gee! All this trouble…just so Dan can have a talk show…no self promotion is happening to the detriment of equal rights…seriously!….lol!
Aiden
Glitter bombing is so fucking stupid. That being said I’m tired of people saying he can’t be criticized because he’s gay. Or that we shouldn’t criticize our allies.If me pointing out your errors makes you turn against my group then you were never really an ally.And if we can’t have an honest discussion about racism and transphobia in the gay community, then who can we discuss it with. You can’t criticize and demonize the right wing, if you’re going to be just as ignorant.
JAW
@Tackle:
I was talking about, as was Dan Savage, about the Prop 8 vote… not the vote for president. The electoral college deals with the presidential election… not local ballot questions like prop 8.here is the article from The San Fran Exaim from Jan, 7, 2009… they did this 2 months after the vote… they did lots research. can you show me where it was 49% and I will stand corrected.
as for catholics… I was not talking about “The Church Leaders, but individual members. I agree the “Church” put a lot of money and push into the campaign, but the individual voters were not as supportive of their church as blacks were. I am sure that many catholics voted for prop 8… but not as large a % as Blacks did.
I stand behind my homework.
JAW
sorry… here is the link to the article…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/06/BANB154OS1.DTL
Bobo
Oh good lord, go to google, type in “dan savage racism prop 8” and have a friggen field day. I’m not getting paid to teach your lazy asses, gotta get to band practice. Jaw, i give yer homework an F, try again
Blastfistomy
This backlash against Savage is the id of femme minded queerdom hating “masculine” gay men and anyone who just loves men. The fact that I can call it out for what it is will get lost when it’s questions posed to Lesbos and their trans-man partners follow these basic lines: “hey, breeders give you a pass because you don’t have buttsecks. They don’t really believe what you do is “sex” at all, so you take the pass and run with it. You’re a dainty little flower, accepted by the law to a far greater extent than any gay man has ever been, yet you still want to shit on us like we’re your straight creepy daddy”.
Well, tough shit people, take your jacked up version of queer spaces and defend any contrived position all you want, you’re still detached, while we are committed. Look at LGB rights, and match it up with the trans plague we’ve been dealing with. I don’t care how much you can’t see beauty in men, you’re a arriviste by default, and more respected in the law if you change your gender, so fuck off and grow a dick, you’ll hate just yourself for enjoying having one of those anyway. How’s that for queer spaces being inclusive? Sure, my misanthropy isn’t an argument for much, but trans folk love it anyway. It makes them “complete”. You’re welcome, benders.
Phillip
This post has it all wrong. It’s not that Dan Savage shouldn’t be assaulted b/c his views aren’t that bad. It is that he shouldn’t be assaulted for any reason, regardless of what his views are.
Make no mistake. This was violence and it was directed at him because he refuses to bow down to a group of thugs. These thugs absolutely despise the notion of gay civil rights. GIn their minds, gays are little more than foot soldiers in their war on gender. They call themselves “queer” and insist that gays are “queer” by definition. They also insist that gays cannot and should not exist unless part of some bizarre alphabet soup of groups known as LGBTQQIANGC. Gays are but a minority in this alphabet soup, and so a Dan Savage is criminal for not obeying the majority of letters. Look at one of the comments above: Dan deserved to be glittered because he didn’t subject his views to a vote by the intersexed, transgender and two-spirited peoples of the world.
Gay people need to fight the “queer” activists, who are a threat to the safety and equality of gay people. We need to end the ridiculous fiction of LGBT.
randy
@Rebecca Juro: Please give us examples of the “stupid, harmful and degrading things” he has said about you.
Giff
Someone explain why T is even included in GLBT? Gay, Lesbian, and Bi all deal with one’s sexual orientation – who they are attracted to. Trans refers to someone’s gender identity. Chaz Bono once was a lesbian when he was Chastity, now he’s a straight male. His orientation has nothing to do with his gender identity.
I’m personally getting tired of the alphabet soup that once was the gay/bi community
I for one LOVE Dan Savage and listen to his podcast weekly. Yes, he says “faggot” or “tranny” but get past the name and listen to what he says. When you give a word power to offend you it will always offend you. He has come a long way in evolving his opinion on Trans people, as I’m sure we all have. Instead of taking one snippet from a person who speaks thousands of times, listen to the ideas that are being put out there after the evolvement.
Don’t be afraid of who you are.
Be open and honest about what you are interested in.
Talk with your partner.
Seek out people who like the same things you do – like water sports, find someone who will pee on you. Like being tied up while dressed as a horse, there is someone out there who will do that.
Fuck anyone who tells you to not be who you are (a recent gay teen was told to not bring a potential boyfriend home for the holidays because it may offend Grandma…fuck Grandma – be yourself. And who knows, Grandma may actually be cool with it once she learns who you are”
Aaron
Many of the commenters defending him seem to be missing the point. It isn’t just that he’s transphobic, it’s that he’s often sexist, bi-male phobic, fatphobic (yes – did you know having a media that constantly treats fat people like shit is bad? SHOCKER!), I could go on… he’s only truly accepting of others so much as they fall into the categories of gay, straight, and female bisexuality. That’s pretty much it – everything else is just lip service “acceptance”.
Yes we should be fighting people in the far right, but we should also be fighting against people who don’t whole a good deal of the best interest of the queer community at heart. Savage is one of those people.
I would encourage anybody who lives in Seattle to actively boycott The Stranger. There are many ways to do this; it’s a free, widely distributed newspaper. Do the math. Troll his radio show.
As an aside, the queerty comment section is quickly degenerating into youtube.
Chad
Ok. Let me get this right. Dan Savage is bad because he doesn’t like trans people because they don’t fit into his little boxes. The trans activists are bad because they hate Dan Savage because he doesn’t fit into their little boxes. Pot, meet kettle. If Dan savage is transphobic for saying words that he shouldn’t, then these trans glitter bombers are equally homophobic for assaulting a gay man. You can’t have it both ways.
Dave Lara
@Kurt: Naw, they’d love it
Tony
I used to be a big fan of Dan. But lately he’s gotten pretty full of himself.
Kat
“Dan Savage got glitter-bombed by trans activists at an appearance in Vancouver”
Now Queerty can be added to the list of American gay sites that are repeating the inaccurate claim that it was “trans activists” who were behind the Vancouver incident.
http://www.transadvocate.com/shit-certain-gays-dont-say.htm
Even if Savage is worthy of a defense – which he isn’t – the glitterbombing is getting old and, perhaps most importantly, is and always has been a criminal act (parse his words folks, don’t glitter his body), but will Queerty bother to update this post with what Canada’s Xtra (whose original item, to which Queerty links, did not actually identify the Vancouver glitterbombers as trans or having a trans-exclusive agenda) has to say:
“I double checked with the original reporter on the story and the activists were apparently queer, not specifically trans, though they highlighted Savage’s alleged transphobia among their concerns.”
http://www.xtra.ca/blog/national/post/2012/01/27/Queerty-to-defense-of-glitter-bombed-Savage.aspx
Do facts matter more to Queerty than they do to John Aravosis, AmericaBlog and Fox ‘News’?
“He might use the phrase ‘shemale’ when talking to a 22-year-old college senior who’s freaking out about being attracted to trans women. But that’s because it’s the language that 22-year-olds understand.”
Methinks there are a lot of 22-year-old whites in the deep South who ‘freak out’ over attractions (be they opposite-sex or same-sex) to non-whites. In a discussion of such, would Savage get a pass if he indulged in the use of a certain n-word because it’s the language that 22-year-old southern whites understand?
R.A.
As trans folk get all bent out of shape when they’re confused with drag queens, why in hell are they glitter-bombing people?
James Michael Levinsohn
This:
“When Savage goes on Olbermann and says that marriage and military service are the only items left on the LGBT political agenda (completely ignoring the 34 states in which transpeople have no basic civil rights and the 29 where gays don’t either), it deserves to be called out. When he makes nasty and/or ignorant comments about trans folks or others not like himself that deserves to be called too.”
R.A.
Really?
Savage is responsible for Noncisgendered Activists making fools of themselves?
CBRad
What would be a more “manly” confetti material to start throwing back on trans-activists? Maybe buckshot?
R.A.
I don’t know, but I don’t like these humorless language-controlling harpies co-opting “Glitter and Be Gay.”
Tackle
@JAW: Yes the Electrol College does deal with the Presidental election. I meant the California electrol vote. Blacks only make-up 9% of that vote that acatually passed prop-8. So even if we take 58% of the Black vote, it is still only 9% of the acatual vote. Impossible to swing the outcome either way.
And when you mentioned individual support. In addition to the Catholic Church, I did not even mentioned the Mormon Church, Church of Scientology,Southern Baptist, Evangelical Christians. All these the majority of members are White, and passed prop-8 by huge margins. All of these members combined are MUCH larger then the so-called Black church community. And have much more power in the California electrol vote. Remember Blacks only make-up 13% of the U.S. population. The “acatual” Black church going public, even less.
Kamikapse
Those activists are right for once… Dan Savage is a piece of shit… says a lot that we don’t have better people to speak for us.
R.A.
@Kamikapse:
Maybe those “better people” aren’t interested in representing anonymous bloggers who call smart, successful and proud gay men “pieces of shit.”
Gay Bacon
I think Savage is a cool guy but if I heard proof that he was fat-phobic, I’d probably glitter bomb him too lol.
R.A.
Is that the next letter in our Alphabet Soup Movement – LGBTIF?
Will that include the Morbidly Obese, or will they get their own MO?
Johnathan
@tackle….The word is “electoral” and there is no such thing as the California Electoral Vote. The Electoral College is only used in presidential elections.
Tackle
@Johnathan: Thanks for the correction. The overall California “electoral” vote, Blacks still only made up 9%.
And I agreed in my “2nd” post that the Electoral College is only used in Presidential elections.
SteveC
Those trans activists who assaulted Dan Savage are violent, homophobic idiots.
If they are representative of the wider trans community (and I hope they are not) then I’m done with them.
JAW
@Tackle:
Again I am not sure why you bring the electoral college into this topic… has nothing to do with the original post.
When I responded to Bobo… who stated that Savage put Blacks under the buss… my response was many people felt the lack of support from another minority groups, Blacks, were throwing us under the bus….
You said that my 58% of Blacks voting yes was incorrect… You never showed me the survey that you were correct at 49%…
As the article stated, there was a much larger turnout of Blacks to help elect Obama. If the 58% had voted No… Then we would have won.
Kaye
Glitter is bad for the Environment. Think of the DOLPHINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, But seriously, What does coating a dude in glitter help anything? Are you trying to “gay him up”? if so, apparently you’re too late. as a member of the LGBT community myself, I feel the glitterbombers are really shining a bad light on the community. we’re looking for acceptance and rights. instead of petitioning, and examples of how our relationships can and will work, we have people who instead of having a valid argument or are incapable of handling things like adults, run up and throw glitter on someone who has a differing opinion. I think our entire community needs to grow the hell up. Who cares if your “Queer”? Queer means different not flamboyant.
Gay Bacon
@R.A.:
The L doesn’t stand for large?
AedanRoberts
What a painful, over-discussed topic that is obviously going nowhere.
Personally? I think the issue is ridiculous and completely agree with the article writer. I get absolutely livid when I think about how this infighting solves nothing and is doing a much better job of holding us back than use of the word “Tranny” ever will.
“Fister Limp Wrist”? Really? You name yourself that and then go after Dan Savage as the PC Police? Fuck you.
But my opinion will not change the misguided views of the Dan Savage-hating crowds who congregate on these forums to espouse their hatred of the man. And their ridiculous diatribes won’t change my opinion that he’s a good man doing everything he can for a community that obviously needs all the help it can get. Oh well.
Codswallop
Cynthia Lee, perhaps it’s just that we’re all sick to fucking death of all the Trans whining and trying to be the tail that wags the LGBT dog. It’s bitch bitch bitch all the time over anything and everything, no more happy with anything than you were with your bodies. Chronic dissatisfaction is not a sexual orientation or a gender dilemma, it’s an attitude problem and a pain in the ass. When there’s nothing to complain about you invent them.
Ever think about that?
Evji108
Call me cis-gendered if you will….I have been trying to get trans fats out of my diet for a while now. Its just a common sense personal health choice.
chirssypoo
Who is all for dropping the T out of LGBT? I’m voting them off the island.
JayKay
@chirssypoo:
+1,000,000
Charlie
No we do not sever the trans community from the tribe because you are mad that some of them are offended. So some of them are offended and deal with it in a kind of weird way. This doesn’t mean all Trans folks everywhere deserve your scorn. Be mature enough to be patient with them.
JayKay
@Charlie:
Why? I have absolutely nothing in common with them, and every chance they get they shit all over gay men and the accomplishments of the gay rights movement. They don’t see us as allies, they just see us as “PRIVUHLIDGED WHITE SISGENDYR OPPRESSERZ.” Why should we pretend that these people are our friends?
Michael S
I agree with JayKay–I have nothing in common with transsexuals, and neither do most gay, lesbian or bisexual people. My own view is that transsexuality is the apotheosis of homophobia–men and women who don’t have the guts (or the cultural support) to admit they’re queers or dykes, so they convince themselves that they’re trapped in the body of the opposite sex. Hey trans folks–just summon the courage to admit you’re really gays or lesbians. And bravo to Dan Savage–he’s about as close as we get to having a Martin Luther Queen.
Ho Hum
@JayKay:
Every chance you get you shit all over trans men and women and our accomplishments. You don’t see us as allies, you just see us as “TEH HOMOPHOBIC TRANNIE OPPRESSORZ”. The blogs you obviously derive your inane blabbering from make up shit about “trans activists” to get pricks like you to go off the deep end, ready to vote us out (seriously–wtf? this about human right for everyone, not a fucking political alliance which, by the way, isn’t where you should look for or expect “friends”). Even this article makes up “trans activists” who bombed Savage–even though, if you read the fucking Xtra article and every trans blog about the incident, there is no mention of any trans person being involved, and transphobia is only ONE of many issues the HOMOmilitia (that means gay, dipshit) glitter-bombed him over. Most of the articles (the two at Bilerico, AmericanBlog Gay, Joe My God, and potentially this rag) which mislabel the activists who allegedly glitter-bombed Savage were written by men with a particular sexual orientation and privileged racial status. Unlike the seemingly endless supply of transphobic gays, we don’t have to make this shit up.
JayKay
@Ho Hum:
You believe in the ludicrous myth of “white male privilege.” You clearly have no problem making things up.
Aaron
@Michael S:
I hope to god you’re just a really good troll, otherwise…
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I really can't even put into words the ignorance, and shear failing of logic and science you managed to contain in that comment.
Personally, I think the Bs and the Ts should just split off. I've always been disgusted with mainstream gay and lesbian culture (especially gay male, save for the porn).
No, that last part wasn't really serious, but it's a nice thought. I often feel can empathize more with the Trans community than most gay men or lesbians.
StudioTodd
See if you can grasp this concept…
In general, if Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Victoria Jackson, Fred Phelps, or anyone else who actively supports an anti-LGBT agenda uses the word “tranny” or “faggot,” it’s meant to be an insult. You should be upset about it.
If Dan Savage, NPH, Lance Bass, RuPaul, or anyone else who actively supports the LGBT community–and are, in fact, a MEMBER of the community–uses the word “tranny” or “faggot,” it’s not meant as an insult. If you take it as such, you are overly-sensitive. You need to chill the fuck out.
It’s called “context.”
Attacking your own allies doesn’t help your cause…it just makes you look pathetic and ridiculous.
Michael S
@Aaron: I don’t think I’m lacking in logic or ignorant of science. Here’s one for you–if transsexuality is an ordinary variation like being gay is, and not a socially and economically defined category, why are low-income whites and Blacks and Latinos so over represented in their community? These groups are each renowned for their hatred of gays. Doesn’t it suggest that the homophobic homelife of these people is what forced them into the situation? As for the Bs and Ts splitting off–I guess into separate groups since Bs are hardly more friendly than Gs or Ls to transsexuals.
JAW
To me the issues seem to mainly be with SOME of the M2F Trans people. I am sure that it is very difficult for a 6’2″ Trans Female to pass. I Do feel for them and respect them for having the guts to live their life as they feel that they should.
I have issues that some of them feel that they are the only ones oppressed.
Gay men on TV are seen asFem funny and even fat. Very few times do they show us as serious people, as Doctors, Lawyers, Blue collar workers that live quiet everyday lives. The A-list shows are the worst thing on TV… none of thos guys will ever be A-List (even after being on the show) Will never had a relationship… all he had was Jack as a freeloader… The guys on modern family, do not represent any gay couple with children…
But we all watch and laugh.. and sometimes cringe. Sometime they are funny. And yes… There ARE funny gay men and Lesbians… Hell why do we not see them?
Why no funny Trans people… can we EVER see funny Trans people?
we said that “WORK IT” was offensive to Trans people… I thought parts were funny and that it made straight men and women look stupid. But Trans people and others got it taken off the air…
So How would Trans people be seen on TV? never Funny?
Many Trans people should try and relax and stop picking on people that DO support you
WJoaquin
I really have no idea why trannies are considered a part of the LGB movement when clearly so many of them are as homophobic as your average preacher, as is evidenced by all their whimpering comments on this article.
Shannon1981
While I do not agree with some of Dan’s statements on trans people, I think we are glittering the wrong guy here. For real. You do not have to agree with all of his positions to support the fact that he is a solid face for the movement. Instead of attacking our own, why not go for the preacher types?
@WJoaquin: @WJoaquin: I’ll tell you the same thing I always say when this question is asked: Because to the heterosexual community, whether we are L,G,B,T, or anything else non heterosexual, non gender binary conforming, we are all one big group of freaks that defy everything they believe to be normal and right as far as gender expression, sexuality, romantic attraction, and everything else related goes. Strength in numbers. Furthermore, while separate things, as far as rights go, gender identity and sexual orientation are inextricably linked. For example, if we get a non trans- inclusive ENDA while they couldn’t fire you just for being gay, they could fire you for being too femme if you are a gay guy or too butch if you are a gay woman.
And as for trans folks being homophobic? Works both ways. There are plenty of transphobic gay people.
Interesting
The concern is that Conserva-gays like Dan won’t to get theirs and screw the rest of us. The concern is valid. There’s not doubt that Conserva-gays really could careless what happens to low income gay or queer youth on the street. But, while I agree with the position that Dan does not care about those kinds of issues. The glittering just makes a mockery of the concern. The people acting as spokes person for the non-conservatigay position unfortunately are not very good at making their point: there are a wide range of civil rights issues concerning being gay that are being ignored because of conservagays,a nd we would like our place at the table. Its not either/or, but in playing into the conservagay approach- they are playing into the either one is for marriage equality or one is for other gay rights just like Dan would have us believe (after all “it gets better” is a certain middle glass happy talk version of life that’s not true of everyone’s economic reality). In many ways, this is like the battle for black civil rights in that there was this movement (which was mostly conservative) that believed once we ended Jim crow, we would be free. this has proven false. But it was false at the time. The gays who believe that marriage equality or ENDA will end the struggle for civil rights have much to learn. But the activists aren’t helping them to learn the important lessons.
RVH
@Interesting: Dan Savage is a “conserva-gay”? You’re a lunatic.
Where_do_we_go_from_here?
This situation has devided the T from the G more than any other issue in the last few months.
Obviously both sides are unlikly to see eye to eye on this matter.
As we are an alliance it is incumbant on the movement to just drop this matter.
I would like to implore each side in this discussion to step aside and mutualy yield the debate. There will be no agreement on this topic and further pursual of this matter can only result in a fracturing of our numbers in a time when we need as many soldiers as we have.
My opinions on this are very pasionate and solidly in one side of the debate, but I shall refrain from indulging in this debate any longer.
I advise and implore each of you to do the same.
Interesting
@RVH: Yes, conservative, as in he’s in it to change society just enough to make his life and the things he understands about life acceptable rather than progress for all. Talking about sex- an issue that’s been discussed since the late 60s now, does no per se make him progressive.
His description of gay life sums up the vast bulk of the gay rights movement as far as the national media goes. He does nothing to disabuse them of the notion that he’s the norm when in fact he’s actually not as far as the statistical analysis goes on gay life in America.
Being low income and gay, for example, does not enter his calculus of what is important as an issue despite the fact that gays are more impoverished than their straight counter part.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/07/lgbt_rights.html
There needs as far as rights differ as well. It doesn’t mean marriage isn’t important. It means its not the only debate, and the limitations comes out of a conservative sense of being in the middle class.
Every gay rights activist in the country should be discussing poverty in the gay community. Dan can, of course, discuss what he wants, but the fact he places no weight on gays for whom economic “life can’t get better” is telling.
I suppose you may be confusing conservative with reactionary. He’s clearly not a quisling like GOProud, but saying he’s not a reactionary leaves a lot of space between reactionary and progressive. He leans conservative as far as what he tends to discuss.
That being said, I don’t see how glittering helps. It has shock value, but may be that’s the point. The point I am making is that the activists arguing against Dan are actually arguing against the present shape of the gay civil rights movement in general, which tends to focus on symbolic issues like DADT (which they think makes gays look tougher) over ENDA, or they focus on marriage, but they tend to ignore other rights issues- such as economic rights. But then this is in accord with most Americans until recently who ignored economic inequality as well.
The fact that gay activists are still ignoring economic issues is disappointing and harms the community, but there’s nothing new to it, and its not unique to Dan Savage.
Lazyrockett
We are and always have been our worst enemy. Its what “our community” does best.
Interesting
@RVH: By the way, I know you are probably a troll, but I want to add another point.
Someone up above commented in this fashion about Savage:
“When Savage goes on Olbermann and says that marriage and military service are the only items left on the LGBT political agenda (completely ignoring the 34 states in which transpeople have no basic civil rights and the 29 where gays don’t either), it deserves to be called out. ”
To me, that’s very telling. For a lot of gay people the biggest issues are (a) not being hired for a job because they are gay, or fired if someone finds out and (b) housing (you can still be kicked out). for low income queer youth, the issue is that they are denied social services often because there is no law protecting them from the whim of bigots who may have a problem with their sexual orientation.
These are all examples of rights issues that need to be a part of the discussion. By getting caught up in language and name calling the trans activists who really do have a good point to make, lose out on discussing these issues in more depth. Part of it, I can understand- its the frustration o dealing with a moment that marginalizes anything that does not fit with the middle class gay white male orthodoxy pushed by folks like Dan, but I don’t know how those issues of ENDA, housing, queer youth,e tc are served by glittering him, because I question how many of you actually even understand what they are saying other than through your own limited understanding of gay rights.
Interesting
“In The Life,” probably one of the view substantive gay shows out there, discussing what you won’t see on gay main stream blogs like Queerty or from Dan Savage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbAqtRNKnDQ
LGBT discussion of homeless youth again by “In the Life”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUhqodigPFk
40 percent of homeless kid are LGBT, and 1 in 4 LGBT are kicked out.
This is the frustration of activists over people like Dan.
RVH
@Interesting: If I’m a troll then you’re a long-winded troll. And I know what you meant by conservative. Dan Savage is no kind of conservative. If you’ve listened to him as extensively as you pretend to, you’d know that.
Interesting
@RVH: As I said, you are likely a troll, and, you just proved it. The answer provided illustrations of my argument whereas you just repeated your assertion without proving a thing other than you have internet access.
Interesting
@RVH: And by the way, I listened to him enough to know what he prioritizes. I am sure in you simpleton mind if ever said something once or mentioned it in passing that’s the same as focus, but in the real world, focus is what you concentrate on not what you mention in passing.
RVH
@Interesting: Not quite. You have to basically write a book to support your assertions which is precisely what you did and you’re still far from convincing. And stop acting like a whimpering little intellectual who’s on some high ground on what is basically a tabloid news site.
Interesting
@RVH: Well, you told me! Nice calling the site a tabloid as a defense for you being an idiot.
The info is now out there a part of this article if anyone ever see about gays in poverty and homeless gay youth.
Feel free to keep babbling about how you and Dan aren’t conservative in focusing on gays of privilege while ignoring these issues.
Devon
@Shannon1981:
Thank you for exposing LGBT to be the idiocy I always knew it to be. Your justification for LGBT is that the “heterosexual community” see us all as “one big group of freaks”. Obviously that is false. Most heterosexuals don’t believe that and the ones that do are dying off. If hets did all think of us as freaks, we wouldn’t have made the progress we have seen today. What a ridiculous belief system you have.
But you know, even if it were true that hets see us as freaks, the proper response is to reject that bigotry and educate them. The worst possible response to that is to embrace that lie and to define ourselves around their bigotry. How dare you tell gay kids that the world thinks of them as freaks, so their only option is to define themselves as a component in a “freak community.” Your ideology hurts gay kids.
LGBT makes no moral sense because it defines gay people around the bigotry that you imagine all straight people have. It makes no political sense b/c lumping ourselves in with transsexuals and crossdressers is not a winning move, and b/c we don’t need to alter our identity in order to ally with them on this or that issue. LGBT makes no logical sense b/c trans people are mostly non-gay and are not defined by sexual orientation.
Hector
I will not participate in any group that calls itself LGBT. T is in the same community with LGB the way a tapeworm is in a community with a large intestine. That ain’t a community, it’s a parasitic relationship. The best way forward for both groups is to end LGBT. We can still be friends (maybe) and even allies but this 1990s experiment of lumping these 2 discrete groups together and pretending that they are one is a grand failure.
Flaneur
As a gay man, my issues are not those of B, T, Q or whatever other letter activists (and the media) typically affix to my G and the L of my sisters. Why the alphabet soup of activism?
We all should wish each other well but concentrate on our own issues — it’s a more effective use of resources and more effective politically.
Call me assimilationist, heteronormative, whatever, fine, but as gay men and lesbians struggle for marriage, military acceptance, property and investment rights, and rights of survivorship, I just don’t see transgender concerns as relevant (never mind outright distracting).
The big tent approach is tiresome and doesn’t work. Leave the glitter at the club.
CJ
I can’t stand Dan Savage or his views. He does NOT speak for the LGBT community – yet he pretty much sure thinks he does. I’ll be glad when he takes a step back and realizes that not everyone in the LGBT community agrees with his views. And I’m not just talking about the issue in this article, that’s for sure.
Tackle
@JAW: Your not reading my post carefully.I’m NOT bringing the Electoral College into play here. You are. This is my “third” time conceding that was a mistake. I’m ment and I’m talking about the California electoral voters. And that is revalent in this dicussion.
Because Dan Savage accused Blacks of passing prop-8 and when he was shown he was wrong, he refused to apologized.
What your not understanding and what Dan did not understand, is what the 58% Black number ment. BTW, I’m gonna go with your 58% because I can still prove my point. Even if Blacks voted at 69% or 78%,it would NOT matter. Here’s why. And this is what confuses people.
The 58% that you cite, represents the Black vote only. That is how 58% of Blacks voted.
However,,, Blacks only account for 6.2% of the California population. Racial breakdown for the state of California:
White: 40.1 percent.
Hispanic/Latino: 37.6%
Asian:13.0%
Blacks:6.2%
Pacific Islander:0.4%
Two or more:4.9%
Out of this number: And I’m talking about the California electoral voters. Not the “electoral college.” Blacks only make up 9% of California electoral voters.
Again, at 9% of the TOTAL voting population, Blacks could NOT swing prop-8 either way.
Cynthia Lee
The LGBT will not fracture. Sorry to all you out there who want to make it go away. It isn’t going to happen.
So long as there are T people giving thier time and money to their local LGBT centers no amount of whining and screaming about it will change the status quo.
If you don’t like it, go form a new organisation that banns the T.
Shannon1981
@Devon: Fine then. When we get a non gender identity inclusive ENDA, and someone doesn’t fire you for being gay, but does fire you for being a nelly queen, I’ll say I told ya so.
Interesting
@Shannon1981: He probably thinks he’s “straight acting” like half the gay men I know who are are from it.
Shannon1981
@Devon: And color me a bit heterophobic, but there are plenty of young, religious heterosexuals who view us as an abomination and yes, freaks. Just look around and the mess in the school systems now. Hell, I just graduated from a tech school in SC. I got harassed right there by folks younger than I am, and I am 30…gonna be a long time before those people die off, dontcha think?
Interesting
@Shannon1981: By the way, this video talks about exactly what you are describing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbAqtRNKnDQ
The problem here is there is a great deal of ignorance in the gay community as a general rule because its not like gay issues are covered at all in the main stream so gays have very little exposure to the diversity of questions that come up. They are certainly not going to learn about the wide range of issues listening to the gay main stream media which also focuses on, despite the sex talk and imagery, conservative ideas.
Shannon1981
@Interesting: Will definitely watch, thanks. And as far as “straight acting” goes? A joke. I remember thinking I was “straight acting,” then, my own mother, homophobic as she is, admitted to suspecting it at the age of 3, and revealed a Christmas photo of me in a red velvet dress, my dolls thrown to the side and forgotten, playing with a lawn mower. No lie. There is always something there that lets people see what you are. Might as well embrace it and move on, and realize that you need protection based on those non- conforming gender expressions as well as the actual orientation. As far as the straight go we are all (excuse the language) fags and dykes to them. End of story. Doesn’t matter which letter you are on the spectrum or in the acronym. They will hate you just the same.
And, for the record, as a very butch looking lesbian who has had straight women question me in public restrooms, I’d LOVE a gender neutral option. I am quite sure I am not alone in this.
Shannon1981
@Interesting: Watching now, this is so sad, and so true…
Interesting
@Shannon1981: Supposedly, I am not “clockable” as one woman said to describe the fact she didn’t know that I am gay. Others say the same. But, the whole he’s masculine thing, so he can’t be gay, has always irked me a little bit. I always think, “why should it matter to you? Are you saying you wouldn’t like me if I wasn’t?”
WJoaquin
@Interesting: You’ve got some nerve calling somebody else a troll. But since you’ve already reduced the conversation to troll-level, I think you’re mistaking those welfare checks as advancements on your first book.
Sam
Savage is successful because he talks to them like a straight dude ”
Savage not only talks the talk but walks the walk. SAVAGE is a savage; white men like him should got stick to their caucasian closets of hate and their old boys sex networks.
NExt time someone should litter him with some good shit.
Shannon1981
@Interesting: Shouldn’t matter, but for the subtle homophobes, its out of sight, out of mind…if they don’t see the gay, it’s ok..weird, and wrong, but true.
@WJoaquin: That was really racist and unnecessary.
WJoaquin
@Shannon1981: Racist? An overwhelming majority of people on welfare are white, all you have to do is a Google search to find that out. You sound like the racist to me.
Interesting
@Shannon1981: (a) Yes, I know and that’s why it annoyed me. I am not sure if all of it was homphobia per se. Some of it I believe were just women looking to date, and I was not in environment where they could know that I wasn’t available since 2 of them said after wards they thought I was a prospect. But a lot of it, especially from the men, comes from a place of homophobia. ‘Oh you aren’t like them..” Which also annoys me because implicit in all of that is there is something wrong with ‘them”
(b) WJoaquin is likely one of the people that I was mentioning to you before in the other articles that were on race who likes to stalk me for some reason, but seeing you here decided to use another sock puppet name. What I mean is- if you look at the argument, its the same one that is used by the particular screen name that I can’t remember. Its basically like ” i don’t like you so I am going to creeply stalk you into other articles” but whatever. I don’t care other than it is a little creepy. I mean -note the comment to which he’s linked to. And note that the person Ia m calling a troll is being called such because (1) he’s attacking me for such illustrious reasons as my posts are too long (2) this is a tabloid site so who cares and (3) Dan Savage can not be a conservative and anyone who says so is a lunatic (why? Because.).
Unfortunately, people like their bubbles. Savage has been quoted as saying the gay movement is essentially DADT repeal and gay marriage. I commented above by using the video as an example of the danger of his comments. I actually don’t think Savage is a bad guy. Just a myopic one.
WJoaquin
@Interesting: I was just reading through the comments and saw your absurd posts. If I’ve read stuff you’ve written before, I don’t remember it, and I’m certainly not ‘stalking’ you. Sorry to disappoint you but I’m really not infatuated with you. Sounds like you need to get over yourself.
Interesting
@WJoaquin: Discussing homeless LGBT teens and LGBT employment discrimination as a comparison to why people have a problem with Dan’s statements (e.g., his comment that DADT and marriage equality are the only gay civil right issues) is now “absurd. Okay. Got it.
For those who wonder why, this is being attributed to him:
“OLBERMANN: Is there something you think specifically about gays
serving in the military that these people don‘t like? Or is it, as you‘re
suggesting, this is like a timeline in which wherever they encounter the
gay, these bizarre straight people, presumably straight people—who knows
have to overreact just because this is the latest battlefield, no pun intended?
SAVAGE: First, that‘s a really great point. Who knows whose lifting these people‘s luggage, these folks who are so paranoid—
(CROSS TALK)
SAVAGE: I‘d like to see what‘s going on in their heads. I think they‘re projecting, some of them. Whenever they‘re on the verge of losing, they trot out these desperate nightmare scenarios. And they really on the verge of losing the last two final issues when it comes to gay rights, which is service in the military and marriage.”
Cite of transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37397099/
The problem with this discussion is that there is a lot of dishonesty by those who like Dan. I get it. I like him too. But, he does talk from a place of gay white male privilege. For him things “got better.” He may just be mouthing off above, but it does raise questions about his sense of what constitutes “gay rights.” Meanwhile, we get these defenses from other gay main stream media types that pretend “I have no idea why others may be mad at Dan.”
Like I said, while I don’t know if the glitter helps, I can’t pretend there is no reason for people to distrust him.
The above argument is what you are calling ‘absurd.” So, far, all we have gotten from you, is you don’t like me. Why? Apparently because I am saying similar things to several other people, including Shannon, along the thread who you don’t single out. So, yeah, I think you are a stalker.
JAW
@Tackle:
Yes they could have… if 20% of blacks and not 58% voted for it… it would have passed
of course That would be a high % to expect from them. But It could have been done… if each group added a few more votes to our side.. we would have won.
It seems that we assume, or at least Hope that Blacks and other minorities support us.
WJoaquin
@Interesting: lol Whatever you say.
Interesting
@WJoaquin: A direct quote from Dan Savage proving his lack of focus on other LGBT issues is met with a “whatever” by you after you claimed the discussion is absurd. Further proof you are some little crazed stalker. Get help. I know why I am here: I want to push into the conversation the real issues that the glittering and the Dan fanboys block out- that there are real issues that Dan and the gay main stream media often ignore. You? It seems your purpose is attacking me. That’s what makes you a stalker.
Shannon1981
@WJoaquin: Interesting is a known African- American commenter, and the old “welfare and food stamps” argument is one that is used to slam African- American people all the time. You do the math.
@Interesting: Possibly sock puppeting- I’ve been on this site for nigh on two years now, and never saw him before.
JayKay
@Interesting:
“Gay white male privilege” does not exist. You can’t expect any thinking, rational human being to take you seriously when you continue to bring up your imaginary boogeymen.
Marriage, military service, and to a lesser extent, ENDA are the only issues that matter to anyone of any importance. Turning gay youth into welfare queens and raping the right to freedom of association away from landlords are insane items to be focusing on right now.
WJoaquin
@Shannon1981: ‘Well-known’? By who? The braindead Queerty community? As for the welfare argument, I’ve never used it to demean black people. Since the overwhelming majority of people on welfare are white, it hadn’t even occurred to me that it was a racial slur. Since you associate welfare with black people, I stand by my claim that you’re the racist here.
JAW
@Interesting:
In The Life is a great show.. It has done a wonderful job showing all kinds of issues, as well as positive things with GLBT people. I am not sure that you are aware that most of the funding to produce comes from the people that you vilify. that being white middle and upper class Gay Men and Lesbians.
Most of the groups dealing with GLBT youth, Political, Health/HIV, Trans issues and other social service groups get a majority of their funding from us. Dan Savage is one of us also. I do not agree with everything that he says, but he as been a crusader for all of us for many years.
So please… if you have issues with one of us.. do NOT blame ALL of us. I believe that we are all in it together.
Interesting
@JayKay: I am not going to take my cue on meaning of privilege from someone who says “anyone of importance” as a basis for what human rights should look like. It would be like asking NOW for my cues on the definition of marriage. Next time, keep out the privilege and add an actual argument, and then we can debate.
Isaac C
@JayKay: I agree with you.
The thing is, “Interesting” is a known anti-white racist. He brings up homeless GLBT to deflect from important issues of equality like marriage and DADT, because the majority of these homeless GLBT, at least in the largest cities (NYC, LA, etc.), are ethnic/racial minorities. That’s his only reason for talking about it and using these issues to attack Dan and accuse him of being myopic and benefiting from “gay white male privilege.”
This is the tactic of militant black racists like “Interesting:” “This gay white person is not talking about racial gay issues, so he must be racist.” It is completely ridiculous to try to attack Dan for not addressing these issues.
Shannon1981
@WJoaquin: Newt Gingrich, a known racist, just used that against Obama. Statistics aside,its a common slur.
Interesting
@JAW: I don’t find Dan Savage’s among the “In The Life” donors. So, I am going to go out on a limb to say you are trying to change the subject. Here’s a link
http://www.itlmedia.org/pages/supporters
If I missed it, point it out.
Of course, I am discussing Dan Savage’s very public comments as far as gay white male privilege goes and why people may be mad at him (hence the quote, which you cannot dispute since there is now a citation). So what do you do? You change the argument. I expect further twisting of arguments along the lines of “well why didn’t you donate, and prove it” or some other such change the subject nonsense.
My thesis is that I can see why people are angry at Dan Savage as far as gay white privilege goes because his public comments. You can’t argue against focusing on both, or why Dan chooses to focus on some, so you pretend I am attacking everyone to play us versus them. This is a very conservative construction of what I said that relies on divide and conquer. And no, before you pretend otherwise, saying one has privilege does not mean that I am promoting divide and conquer. In fact, I have studiously said that both issues are important, that I am not sure the glittering helps, but, what really bothers you is that I said I can understand why people would be angry over being excluded.
WJoaquin
@Shannon1981: Right, so ignore facts and just say what feels right. You race-baiters are very good at this: shifting the debate to call everyone else racist to ignore real issues. I’m Hispanic but I don’t cite my own race to make a political argument and thus call everyone else who disagrees with me racist. It’s called debating like a grown-up.
Interesting
@Shannon1981: The person who is likely the stalker- Isaac C- has finally showed up. You notice how specific my actual argument is- that Dan Savage is engaged in a kind of privilege- not all white- just Dan Savage and that the media also tends to do this- and how this is turned into “all whites”? As I said, this stalking is very familar and it normally accompanies Issac C when I comment. I was in an article recently that had nothing to do with race, and I didn’t bring it up, and Isaac C made some similar comments there as here. Its creepy, and I remember him for it, but there’s little I can do other than to point it out.
You have seen the videos that I linked to- the one on LGBT youth starts with a white Lesbian girl who came from an abusive family situation. yet, somehow, the discussion of LGBT youth is a people of color issue. In fact, the issue isn’t racial at all: 41.6 percent of the homeless are white.
http://homeless.samhsa.gov/ResourceFiles/hrc_factsheet.pdf
but in Isaac C’s mind- whenever I post, if I mention anything- its racial. Here I am discussing a very specific dynamic,a nd how it works out, and specifically as far as Dan Savage, but his Isaac’s warped mind that’s all racism. This is why I was saying to you in the other diary he’s a racist. Even if a discussion like this one where i am bringing up class, outside of race, and then also race, he focuses on race.
Shannon1981
@Interesting: I don’t pretend to know what you and Isaac’s relationship is-I have agreed and disagreed vehemently with you both. I also don’t dislike Dan Savage, though I do disagree with some of his approaches, and certainly take issue with some of his biphobic and transphobic remarks.
I also agree that poverty in the LGBT community needs to be addressed in a big way. That isn’t an issue of race- that is across the board, particularly with those who present outside the gender binary. Dan Savage is in a position to do this, but hasn’t, and I am unsure why. I really do, bottom line, wish we, the LGBT community, could stop for a second and be a community, because, as is evidenced by threads such as this one, we are anything but. That in and of itself is a very disturbing problem.
Anyway, I need to feed and walk my dog, I’ll be back in few.
JayKay
@Interesting:
I agree, asking for NOW’s opinion on anything is a bad idea.
JayKay
@Shannon1981:
“Newt Gingrich, a known racist…”
I’d be curious to know what you’re basing that liberal smear on.
WJoaquin
@JayKay: I can’t believe I’m defending Shannon1981 on this, but that statement is based on pretty much everything he’s ever said. If he’s not a racist, then at the very least he’s a virulent race-baiter. And that’s not a “liberal smear,” that’s a fact.
alicia banks
all who tell truths are hated
ditto for dan
kudos!!!
http://aliciabanks.xanga.com/732741843/black-homohatred-kills—a-eulogy-for-sakia-gunn/?page=3&jump=1517635448&leftcmt=1#1517635448
Drew
Dan Savage is still highly transphobic, biphobic, misogynistic, and racist. He’s nothing but a media whore and fame whore who speaks for himself only. Most GLBT people don’t like him at all. Savage is just as bad as Santorum and Rev. Phelps except that he pretends to give a shit about GLBT youth and GLBT people all while spouting off his hate towards black people in the state of CA, bisexuals, women, and trans people.
RVH
@Drew: Yeah, Savage is just as homophobic as Rick Santorum and Fred Phelps. And of course extremely racist, that’s why he dresses in Klan garb every time he does an interview.
The next time you want to say something so exceedingly pointless and stupid, don’t. Of course you have a right to say it, but my IQ just dropped five points trying to follow your so-called logic.
David
I agree Aiden, you’ll notice that Savage’s fanbois will always claims “oh no no no! He’s great he’s not racist, transphobic, isn’t poz phobic, or biphobic at all!!!” and they’ll deny how he actually is a documented racist, biphobe, poz phobe, and transphobic person.
Dan Savage is no friend of LGBT people, HIV+ people, bisexuals, trans people, GLBT people who are not white and rich, and women who have been raped.
Dan does not speak for all gay men or all GLBT people, and he’s not a leader at all even if this media whore wishes he did. He’s a self centered embarassment. If you think that Dan Savage actually cares about GLBT youth and GLBT adults, or anyone but himself you haven’t been paying attention.
He completely supported the 2nd Iraq war, and then pulled a stunt with crocodile tears and self promotion for an MTV reality TV show with his failure of “It gets better”.
Dan is not an expert in issues that effect GLBT people, and he’s not an expert in anything except being a conceited asshole and drama queen. Then again he has a degree in drama and nothing else. He’s no better than Perez Hilton. I remember reading a column where he foolishly claimed that if you’re addicted to alcohol or illegal drugs that you can simply just safely stop them and that you don’t need treatment or help at all. He’s also 1,000% vanilla and does not have any fetishes or actually practice BDSM so why does he give out advice about these subjects which he knows nothing about? I also have read where he said how if you’re into various kinks, consensual BDSM, or if you have fetishes to keep them to yourself and not tell anyone.
Then you have people who excuse his biphobia, transphobia, Pozphobia, and racism which is disgusting no matter if you are Monosexual, or Trans.
I’m for GLBT equality so I am not going to sit idle and ignore him when Dan Savage is frequently being transphobic, biphobic, or when he’s pozphobic, and then you have some gay men who make up excuses for his bigotry and give him a pass instead of calling him out on it.
I do know many gay men who actually do not like Dan Savage, don’t think of him as any sort of leader, and are just as sick and tired of him and his bullying as most people here in Seattle, the pacific northwest, and the west coast are.
Miguel
This fixation on hating Dan Savage is quite pathological. Anyone who has actually bothered to listen/read his stuff consistently can see that most of the hysterical accusations against him are laughable.
If you don’t like his tactics or gay rights priorities, then don’t listen to him and go out and do something to address whatever you think he ignores from his “privileged perspective”. He has never appointed himself spokesman for anything — he is very clearly the opposite of a spokesman because he has his own very individual outspoken opinions and doesn’t try to please anyone.
I think he is pretty outspoken, and cuts through bullshit like a laser beam, which explains why some people dislike him: a lot of people rely on a good strong whiff to get through the day or feel good about themselves.
Nonetheless, given the obvious enemies why have such as Santorum or Perkins, which Dan has done a bit to counter, it seems a tad moronic to spend so much time brooding spitefully on how much you dislike someone like Dan.
Okama
The real problem that I have with Savage is the very fact that he seems to be a bit too appealing to straight people. As much as I have to admit that it’s useful to have an “ambassador”, a leader of our movement should be more concerned with bringing us together, instead of trying to get breeders to understand things that they probably can’t anyway. I once saw Savage on Bill Maher (another man whom I mostly try to avoid; this was a rare exception), and while one of the straight male guests was talking sarcastically about raping Michelle Bachmann, Dan Savage said “…I sometimes think about fucking the shit out of Rick Santorum.” This is really a classic display of the straight male “macho-man” thing, and it kind of disturbs me. I also saw him in the movie “Bi the Way”, where he seemed to express that old bi-phobic stereotype that all bisexuals are closeted gay people. I myself am bisexual, and am the son of two lesbians, and not only do I have nothing to hide, but no wish to do so. Even if Savage tolerates many different sexualities, he he doesn’t seem to really accept them. And that makes him like a straight ally to the LGBT community at best, and definitely not like a leader.
Okama
The real problem that I have with Savage is the very fact that he seems to be a bit too appealing to straight people. As much as I have to admit that it’s useful to have an “ambassador”, a leader of our movement should be more concerned with bringing us together, instead of trying to get breeders to understand things that they probably can’t anyway. I once saw Savage on Bill Maher (another man whom I mostly try to avoid; this was a rare exception), and while one of the straight male guests was talking sarcastically about raping Michelle Bachmann, Dan Savage said “…I sometimes think about fucking the shit out of Rick Santorum.” This is really a classic display of the straight male “macho-man” thing, and it kind of disturbs me. I also saw him in the movie “Bi the Way”, where he seemed to express that old bi-phobic stereotype that all bisexuals are closeted gay people. I myself am bisexual, and am the son of two lesbians, and not only do I have nothing to hide, but no wish to do so. Even if Savage “tolerates” many different sexualities, he he doesn’t seem to really accept them. And that makes him like a straight ally to the LGBT community at best, and definitely not like a leader.
Fawkes
@Okama: “Breeders”? Really? Heterophobia is just as bad as homophobia. People who have nothing but hate in their hearts in the LGBT community have done so much to try to wreck the movement, but thankfully you’re all failing.
JayKay
@Okama:
“he seems to be a bit too appealing to straight people.”
“trying to get breeders to understand things that they probably can’t”
“This is really a classic display of the straight male “macho-man” thing, and it kind of disturbs me.”
Holy god, you sound like you would be absolutely miserable to be around in real life. Just saying.
Interesting
@Miguel: He’s representing of an issue that has been discussed many times before, and under many different approaches. So either you have been living in a complete bubble during the gay civil rights movement, are too young, or just plain don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
In fact, the point is that Dan is a continuation of the attempts to narrow gay civil rights to those acceptable to a narrow band of gay white middle class men who do not even represent most gay white men. This conversation has come up with the Human Rights Campaign, and other national groups. It came up with Get Equal. It came up with the gay rights groups in California, and so on and so forth.
What I tire of is the totally predictable defenses that one can expect when this issue is raised of inclusiveness. As I have said, its sad that a few years back right after Prop 8, it took Kathy Griffith of all people, to give attention to a low income white couple were devastated financially by Prop 8. Indeed, out of New Jersey, there was multiple video of working class gays affected by the marriage equality issue. One has to wonder why it is the case they are consistently ignored.
Everyone else was talking about the abstraction of what Prop 8 meant. This sort of lack of inclusiveness has a real repercussion not just with the inclusive issues, but gay marriage as well.
Devon
@Shannon1981: Well, we are making progress in bringing you out of your delusions. A few comments up and you were saying that all hets see us as a freak show. Now you admit that it is only some religious hets who think that way. So why should we embrace the erroneous views of the homophobic portion of the het population and define ourselves around their misguided prejudices? Answer: We shouldn’t do that. We should tell them that the belief that gays like to dress up as women or want to be women is a foul stereotype. Gays have no more defining connection with transgendered than straights and most trans people are straight. That is what we should tell them because that is what is true.
As far as “LGBT” being some kind of enduring tradition, don’t believe it. It didn’t exist before the mid-1990s and it only exists today because most people didn’t want to fight about something that seemed unimportant. But the consequences of LGBT are beconming more obvious by the day. And no, LGBT won’t survive because of a tidal wave of trans volunteering and money. There aren’t that many trans activists. They don’t volunteer much, preferring to spend most of their time attacking and making demands. And as a trans philanthropist recently admitted, they give virtually no money to either “LGBT” groups or their own trans-only groups. They give nothing and take a lot. As a commenter above said, this is not a community but a parasitic relationship.
JAW
@Interesting:
@unInteresting… Please point out where I stated that Dan contributed to that show…
Please do not state things that are not true
Check out who the major doners are… the Gill foundation is a good start for the white people that you hate, that do not hate you back… can you point out who the Major Trans doners are??
I do not see may others on here that support your point of view… perhaps it is time that you just blog on the Trans sites and take your HATE with you
wc1
@Giff:
Agree. LGB full stop.
T and all the letters, sort yourselves out, get your own activists and pick the people you want to speak for you.
StudioTodd
@Interesting: Interesting…you and I listen to the same thing, yet hear two different things…
What I understood from the interview (because I was paying attention to what he was saying in context, instead of obsessively poring over his words in order to find something to support my irrational jealousy) was not that Dan Savage was making a pronouncement that marriage equality and ending DADT were the only items left to be crossed off the official big list of gay rights. He was saying that in the eyes of the homophobes who have a knee-jerk negative response to anything having to do with gay rights, these issues are seen as their last big battleground.
In other words, those topics were making the most news at the time.
Why must you continuously use inaccurate, fictitious and/or out-of-context quotes to smear this man, while stubbornly refusing to consider the idea that Dan Savage is not your enemy? David (in comment #140) gave a perfect example of this behavior.
It’s truly disturbing how devoted some of you are to attacking someone who has done nothing to hurt you. Why are you so invested in taking him down?
Marie
@Devon-No “GLBT” did not start in just the 90s. It’s always been that way since stonewall, Trans people started GLBT rights but then were ciswashed out of history.
Stuffed Animal
The information on Dan Savage’s problematic statements (past and present) is out there for anyone intelligent enough to Google his name along with “racism” or “biphobia” or “transphobia”. Educate yourself StudioTodd, and I strongly advise that you do it before the Pied Piper of Slog leads you off the edge of a cliff along with the rest of his mesmerized groupies! That’s where Dan-O is headed for sure, and when he finally takes his fall, it won’t be pretty. 😉
Clay
to think that dan savage could generate such a comment post is actually pretty pitiful. but then to come across HIV STIGMA just goes to show how far we have not come since the eighties.
what i see: the inability to care for those in your community. Instead, it’s the same ol’ bullshit of making yourselves feel better and more privileged in yet another minority group that is somehow convinced that breaking into a mainstream, CAPITALISTIC, evil hetero-normative society is going to magically make things better – HA! Savage is an A-Gay and is upper middle class and lives in the suburbs with a house and kids and just wants to emulate a Heterosexual lifestyle and thinks that all bisexual and gay men should do this or that we all somehow want to like him. Savage is a media whore with Peter Pan syndrome who just loves attention and can’t get enough of it even if it’s negative attention.
I find it hypocritical that gay men are claiming that most bisexuals and trans people are somehow victimey or want to celebrate victimhood, when most gay men love to play the blame game and pretend that everything that doesn’t support gay men 1,000% of the time all the time is homophobic. Yet if a Straight person or even another gay man or LBT person who can think for themselves says anything criticizing their sacred cows or anything against the “Community” they’re branded as homophobic.
I’m not sure why so many Savage/It gets better queens on this blog are now claiming and denying that Dan Savage is poz phobic? He clearly is and if you’ve read his “advice” column or listened
to his podcasts one can easily see how he has major issues with people who are HIV+ and that he is poz phobic. Or how they’re now revising history and claiming that Savage has never been
bigoted towards bisexuals, trans people, and African Americans.
Try doing the resarch on these topics for yourself and you will see how Savage is very bigoted.
It really is just as bad as the shit we get from Heterosexist society and Rev. Phelps but it’s from another GLBT person so it’s 10,000X more hypocritical and worse when it’s from someone on the inside like this.
fuck this shit. IT DOES NOT GET BETTER!
you’ll spend your days feeding the wallets of major corporations. allowing them to sell you a version of gay culture that is more concerned with KILLING YOU and this thing you call “individuality.”
then instead of actually doing anything about being metaphorically “fucked in the ass” by nearly 99% of americans (because queer/GLBT people still fuck queer/GLBT people over in extreme ways) you’ll turn to some MONEY-HUNGRY ICON like Dan Savage, and repost false, generic information and claim it as your own.
and don’t forget the pride celebrations and nightly outings, which take you on a spiral into ALCOHOLISM, meth addiction, bareback sex, and recklessness. where a quarter of you end up hiv-positive because nobody has learned how to talk to one another or give a shit about knowing their status or using condoms either in the heat of the moment or as part of having safer sex. and instead of blaming yourselves, you’ll blame others, until you hopefully realize how fucked up the “community” is, and start living a more productive and meaningful life.
but fuck it, it’s pride and we all know what that is about, right?
going out, buying shit, getting wasted, buying more shit, getting more wasted, angry, annoyed, horny, stupid, redundant and ugly.
well, not so much. it’s about stonewall. it’s about resistance. it’s about a memory and celebrating a time when queers were brave enough to stand up and fight against the system in hopes of thriving and forming their own unique culture. stonewall was a riot! not another dreadful, self-loathing party in the gentrified Castro district while watching your “It gets better” video and pretending that you’re actually doing something and actually helping GLBT youth when you’re just giving them the stock quote that EVERY KID-even straight kids-get when school isn’t going so well or when they’re being bullied.
Someone like Dan Savage who is a primadonna media whore that does not like bisexuals, people with HIV/AIDS, or Trans people is the last person we need representing gay men and GLBT Americans in the media. Yeah Dan, “It gets better” for you! Then again he did start the IGB project just for self promotion, since he can’t resist jumping on any bandwagon while pretending to give a shit and getting your money and attention, and to get a reality TV show on MTV.
Savage is a tool, media whore, jumps on any bandwaggon-Started his whole “It gets better” project not to actually help GLBT youth but to self promote he and his husband and get an MTV reality TV show with crocodile tears claiming that he’s for GLBT rights when in reality he hates HIV+ people, bisexuals, and trans people and his “advice” column writings and podcasts on these subjects show his hate.
Then again he did start the It gets better project not to actually help GLBT teens/youth (all while trashing bisexuals like he is still doing now) but he started It gets better just for self promotion to get a reality TV show on MTV, and because he’s a media whore who can’t resist jumping on any bandwagon or saying or doing anything as long as it gets him any sort of attention or media/press coverage.
Puhlease! Transphobic, biphobic, woman hating racist that has exploited LGBTs for his own pocketbook calling someone else a scumbag grifter? Hypocrisy, thy name is Miss Dan Savage.
Protecting Dan Savage is a mistake, his records speak for themselves and taint any advocates that attempt to defend his abhorrent behavior and bigotry.
Mark
Until Dan stops the martyr and professional victim routine about how he is so picked on by the bi and trans communities and how he has never been wrong on any issue, has never been biphobic, transphobic, or racist and people need to just accept his words as infallible, I won’t accept him as an activist at all. I’m sorry. He is a shock writer and a humorist and if he can’t be more responsible, then he should leave it at that. Because I do really worry about the impact he has on bisexual and trans youth, as well as gay and lesbian youth.
Thankfully a lot of LGBT youth and LGBT adults see Dan as the snake oil seller, media whore, and hypocrite that he is and know fully well that he’s very biphobic, transphobic, and racist and nothing more than a conceited asshole and not any sort of expert on GLBT issues or human sexuality at all.
Chet
To know Dan Savage is to hate him.
I’ve actually met Dan and worked with him. He’s one of the MOST self centered and people I’ve ever met and he only pretends to be nice to people just so he can get what he wants from them.
He’s also a bully. See the column where he called out some guy who supposedly left a nasty note for a waitress, and he gave the guy’s personal information out and told people to harass him. People did and it turns out Dan had the wrong guy. The guy who was harassed and his wife just wanted an apology from Savage and they never got one.
Interesting
@StudioTodd: You are a liar, and likely just one more sock puppet. The direct quote comes from MSNBC. If you have problem with it, take it up with Dan or MSNBC rather than whining activists are being unfair. Moreover, the problem is this isn’t his only comment so after you do that, realize that people can post more.
Miguel
It’s kind of funny reading some of these hysterical foaming-at-the-mouth comments… cultivating pet hates largely based on delusions sure seems like it takes up a lot of time for some people.
Some people respond to the issues and style of activism Mr. Savage puts forth, including a good amount of straight people. If you don’t, that’s fine… develop your own issues and tactics and may you have the greatest success. But first wipe off the spittle from your keyboard, because that is just not very hygienic, not to mention attractive.
You could offer a valid critique of Mr. Savage’s methods and themes — but when you introduce delusions about transphobia and so on, when anyone who cares to listen to his shows can see these are patently false, sane people will move on and not pay attention. Also, acting like Dan Savage is the anti-Christ, when there are actual dangerous enemies who would gladly see most any GBLT, and any other alternate sexuality you care to think of, put in jail and denied basic rights, and who demonize all of us as a “danger to civilization” — then, you lose what little credibility you had to start with. Different opinions and perspectives within our community are great, but please reserve some perspective and balance.
JayKay
@Clay:
I stopped reading your TL;DR rant at the first use of “poz phobic.”
No, fuck off with that nonsense. Avoiding people with HIV doesn’t make you a bigot, it makes you health conscious.
David Ehrenstein
Transgender Fascism Marches On!
Mr. Reality
@Cynthia Lee: Actually it’s the behavior of trans folks that is driving the wedge. Particular easy to do since the majority of gay men don’t consider trans as part of our community. My community for political activist reasons is made up of gay men and women. Period. Though I wish trans people no ill will, I don’t appreciate the hitching of your wagon to ours. You have your concerns we have ours. The addition of trans people to the gay and lesbian political movement by a tiny majority of career activists has done great damage to our cause, though certainly it has helped yours. So, if you don’t like the way gay men treat you as “allies,” feel free to break free and have your own movement. We’d appreciate it and everyone would be much happier.
David Ehrenstein
@Mr. Reality: SING OUT LOUISE!
Trevor
@Mr. Reality:This! Couldn’t have said it better myself. It is pretty obvious that the T was added to LGB for political reasons. L, G and B are all homosexual to one degree or another. Ts aren’t. So why were they lumped in with us to begin with? Who did this? No one ever asked my opinion and I never got to vote. But now I have a whole bunch of bizarre trans issues presented to me like it is my obligation to deal with their bathroom selection problems and their need to surgically alter themselves. No ill will toward them or anyone dealing withe their issues, but don’t force me to rename myself and then deal with your issues.
Shannon1981
@JayKay: I never said every single hetero sees us as freaks. Not once. However, the ones who do are in pretty prominent positions of power oftentimes, with enough followers to make a difference. Like it or not, we have to consider them, for they are obviously a threat.
As for Newt being a racist? Have you listened to the man speak, ever?
Devon
@Shannon1981:You did say that. And even as amended, your statement is overblown. Large swaths of people in power are pro-gay or are just indifferent. Of the homophobes, many take the stance they do for political reasons or because they are simply misinformed. You do of course have some conservative people in power who don’t differentiate gays from crossdressers, hermaphrodites, and transsexuals, but the proper response to that is to educate them or fight them, not to embrace their lies and define ourselves by those lies. The same conservative anti-gay folks you describe also lump us in with communists and pedophiles. Does that mean we should also add a C and a P – because we are obligated to define ourselves by whatever crazy nonsense they spew?
Stop and think about why you keep advocating for LGBT. When you critically challenge your assumptions, you will see that the concept really makes no sense morally, politically, or logically.
Shannon1981
@Devon: Where did I say every single hetero thinks of us as freaks? Perhaps you read that into it, but that is certainly not what I meant.
@Devon: The thing is this: the reasoning behind the discrimination against everyone in the acronym are the same. Also, there are trans people who are also LGB. At this point, especially on a legal level,extracting the two is impossible.
I repeat: if we ignore the gender identity component, they won’t fire you for being gay, but they will fire you for being a nelly queen or a butch dyke.They wills till be able to call security on butch- looking lesbians in airport bathrooms because we didn’t fight for a gender neutral option. So on and so forth. Those kinds of discriminatory practices will continue if we leave gender identity out. What good is one without the other?
Marie
No it’s not slander that Dan Savage is Transphobic. He’s also highly biphobic too and if you want to excuse his bigotry, or agree with it, that just makes you a bigot as well. As for Dan Savage he’s a media whore and not any sort of expert on human sexuality or gender at all. IMO Savage is just as bad as Rev. Fred Phelps and the other Conservative people who hate GLBT people however at least they’re not total hypocrites like Savage is.
1) Column: Bad Tranny.
Dan Savage responds to a single parent who recently found out their ex partner is a transwoman. His use of the word tranny is only the tip of the iceberg.
* The tranny activists are going to jump down my throat for this, but… it seems to me that your ex could’ve put off the sex change until after his son was out of high school.
* Perhaps I’m a transphobic bigot, but I honestly think waiting a measly 36 months to cut your dick is a sacrifice any father should be willing to make for his 15-year-old son. Call me old-fashioned.
* Unfortunately, your ex wasn’t willing to make that sacrifice (selfish tranny!), or it never occurred to him to make that sacrifice (stupid tranny!).
* I hope that in the long run your son eventually accepts his dad/mom/whatever and forgives his dad/ mom/whatever for being imperfect
* When your son is an adult, he’ll hopefully be able to forgive his dad/mom/whatever for his selfish decision to run off and have a sex-change operation …
2) Column: Deep Love.
Dan Savage responds to a man who had sex with a transwoman prostitute.
* “…going down on a shemale escort shores up your heterosexual bona fides. Gay guys don’t frequent and/or fellate shemale escorts (on purpose or by accident); getting with shemales is an entirely straight-male pursuit.”
* Of course you aren’t totally straight—try thinking of yourself as something more than straight, not less—but you’re close enough that you can round yourself down to straight with a clear conscience. (Offer void the day you start blowing hemale escorts.)
3) Transgendered Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna Betrays His Community
Dan Savage falsely labels Washington State Attorney Rob McKenna as a transgender man as a “joke”. No evidence exists of Rob McKenna being transgender.
* It’s staggering that Rob McKenna, a female-to-male transsexual, is making it harder for other FTMs (and MTFs) to access the life savng sex-reassignment surgery that allowed Rob to become the man he is today. Rob had the resources to finance his own sex-reassigment surgery—presumably—but that doesn’t excuse Rob’s cruel disregard for his low-income transgendered brothers and sisters or his making common cause with anti-trans bigots in states like Virginia and Mississippi.
At the bottom of the page Dan Savage writes
* This is a joke, obviously. Rob McKenna is not transgender. Follow the link for more.
A joke? Really? After getting called out for this insulting bullshit Savage writes this in a later article about a trans student:
(Oh, and folks who want me to apologize for this: Okay, I will—after we raise at least 2K for Juin and his family. Otherwise, meh, I’ll just keep hating on trans people like the raging anti-trans beegoat that I am.)
—-
Okay. I think that is all the research I am willing to do for now. I can only wade through so much bullshit in a day. I might add to this later if I find more examples of Savage’s transphobia.
Since so many of us keep writing about what a piece of shit Dan Savage is, I felt like bringing in some of his “lovely” quotes would be nice. Words cannot describe how much I hate that man. Quite frankly, I hate him more than Fred Phelps — at least Fred acknowledges that he hates us.
Shaed
People keep talking about the supposed bad behavior of trans people.
You guys know it was a radical gay group that threw the glitter and handed out fliers here, right?
SEXXYJAMAICAN
I have a sister who is a trans woman and I have a sister who is a gender queer lesbian, I speak for them when I say FUCK Dan Sewage and the rest of you gays who got a problem with the “T” in the LGBT community and really who in their right mind would want to belong to group with a vile bunch of bitter bitches, moving on.@JayKay: Of course “gay white male privilege” don’t exist. Just a bunch of delusional, middle class white sissies who think there is a hierarchy within the “LGBT community”. These delusional sissies think the gay civil rights movement equals the gay white male civil rights movement and the rest of us, gays of color, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgender people are just riding their coat tails to gain equality.because without those delusional gay white males there would be no “gay movement” but at the end of the day these delusional white middle class gay men are faggots just like the rest of LGBT’s only difference is they are delusional faggots.@Isaac C: I lol’d so hard I pee’d “interesting” anti-white, black militant racist? “interesting” again lol’d.. I’ve read most of his posting on this site and he is hardly an anti-white militant racist. I have friends who are black and latino and they would make “interesting” look like a pork chop eating sambo, they are the true defintion of anti-white militant racist plus most gays of color who are anti-white don’t visit queerty because it’s full of the things they hate, white gays
Interesting
@David Ehrenstein: <Being banned from several site, David should know a fanatic when he sees one.
walterpc
@Dylan: “he has singlehandedly spearheaded the Queer movement”
You mean, now there’s just one, single unified movement? Wow! When did THAT happen? If that were true, Dan Savage really WOULD be a hero!
Devon
@Shannon1981: Gee, for some reason, gay rights laws worked very well for several decades without a “gender identity” component and no one seemed to notice that there was a huge problem until they invented LGBT and then suddenly insisted that nothing get passed unless it contained gender identity. No, they don’t just fire you for being nelly or being butch. If hypothetically an employer used that as a pretext, then you can sue for sexual orientation discrimination and demonstrate to the jury that the reason that the employer is offering is a cover for anti-gay discrimination. That is the same rule that applies in all discrimination cases where the employer claims that he fired you for some other reason.
Would it be good to add gender identity to civil rights laws? Probably. But it makes no sense whatsoever to oppose gay rights laws unless gender identity is included, which is the position that trans activists have foisted on our gay orgs. More to the point, whether we agree with adding gender identity or not, it doesn’t require us to rename our selves “LGBT.” That is an alteration of gay identity and its sole purpose is to manipulate us into doing the bidding of our self-declared “family members” the trans activists.
Interesting
@Devon: Your statement is inaccurate. Many gay men, and I just got through talking to one, explicitly had gender identity issues even if they were gay, and did not feel like they were trans per se.
JAW
@Interesting:
In post 171… you state that Devon is inaccurate… please prove it.
You continually say most other people are incorrect, wrong etc… yet you NEVER back your views up with facts, links etc… so Time that you prove you are correct and others not.
I have used links to make my point… you never responded back… so the time has come…
put up or shut up
StudioTodd
@Interesting: Do you really not understand what “out-of-context” means?
Sure, you used a direct quote from MSNBC, but you chose to ignore everything else that was said during the interview. That makes it very easy to mischaracterize the person you’re quoting. This sort of tactic is common with dishonest fanatics who are more interested in winning an argument than they are in the truth.
It’s a waste of time to continue this debate since you’ve proven to be unethical and lacking integrity. For some reason, you are determined to characterize Dan Savage as the enemy and will sink to any level in order to accomplish your goal.
Drew
The T does belong with GLB people and trans rights and the rights of GLB people are connected and always have been. Anyone remember stonewall and how Trans people started the riot?
I agree with SEXXYJAMAICAN if you’re transphobic like Dan Savage is and other people posting here are you’re no better than someone who is homophobic or biphobic.
Jayke
Those trans people make me feel ashamed to be one myself! I fucking love Dan Savage. If he wasn’t married and already made an honest remark on not liking the female anatomy, I’d jump him! I’ve read MANY of Dan’s replies to gay men, telling them to suck it up when it comes to trans guys. Telling them of other ways to think of the genitalia so psychologically it’s easier. Because lets admit something some people really do love dick. Hell I love dick, I’m gay, and I’m trans ftm. Honestly I get why people are attacking him, he speaks truthfully – at least as far as his opinions are concerned and that gets under peoples skin! Lets see you try educating the public, being successful at it, and not getting any hate from anybody! Dan is my role model. I even made it so my will donates all my money to the It Get’s Better Project he started. I fucking love this guy to death! So I guess because someones GAY they don’t have a right to believe Dan is not being transphobic? Well I guess I must not really be trans then because I don’t believe he is in the least. He’s worked with Buck to answer questions before and has come a long way on the subject. He tells gays interested in female to males, they are still gay, they like a guy, he just has different junk, obviously in his own humorous way of speaking though. Dan is a youngest sibling, he has younger sibling qualities like being outspoken, risk-taking, and a bit childish at times. I fucking love it! It shows he’s human! Way to hate guys. You really make the LGBT community shine. – Sarcasm.
Chris
Jayke do you even read what you write before you post it? People don’t like Savage because he’s transphobic, biphobic, racist, a bully, and a media whore, and has been all of these things for decades. He’s the gay white male version of Rick Santorum or Rev. Fred Phelps. That’s very odd that you’d mention your will and that you want to give away all of your savings to Dan Savage since that’s all you’d be doing if you donated any money to his pet project.
Sam
Dan Savage is a piece of shit-that’s how he treats black people, Trans people, bisexual men, bisexual women, and people who are old, or fat. He’s a total con artist and frankly his fans are either ignorant or have no critical thinking skills as shown in comment number 175.
Giff
@Sam – what proof do you have for these accusations? Are you an old fat black bisexual trans person and are hurt by something he said…prove your accusations with evidence before you start throwing out that he is a piece of shit. If you do you may win me over and I’ll stop listening to him
Giff
@Drew: It wasn’t Trans who started the fight, it was a few drag queens who were in Stonewall…big difference
BubbasBack
He’s got big ears, a nasty mouth, is a media whore, and ugly inside. Enough of this pig. Burp.
R.A.
Better yet, enough of you.
symboybot
@Kurt: Talk about trollish behavior. How does your provocative behavior contribute to a rational discussion here?
symboybot
@Kurt: Talk about trollish behavior. How does your provocative behavior contribute to a rational discussion here?@Charlie: Bravo!
symboybot
@Phillip: More provocative condemnation. GLBTQ is my preference (as a term) and I, a gay man, have fought for all of these rights for the last 40 years. We are saps to let reactionaries of any stripe divide us. We stand up for the rights of all and Dan Savage is one of us who has done so endless times (including the rights of trans persons). If you don’t like the way he expresses himself to his largely straight audience – write him and complain. He has read such letters on the air in the past and addressed them.
symboybot
@Charlie: Absolutely correct. Let’s keep some perspective. Like it or not, we’re all in this together under the general category of “universal human rights”!
symboybot
@Devon: Back in 1971 we had a debate in Vancouver over how best to seek equality of rights. Some more conservative members wanted to draw a line that seperated gays and lesbians from transgendered persons, “drag queens” and “effeminate males”. We reject that divisionist concept and argued whole heartedly for rights and respect for all. That there are still people arguing this ridiculous position is pathetic. Its like the Log Cabin Republicans and the Nazi Brown Shirts (S.A.) (under the leadership of openly homosexual, Ernst Rohm). We are all in this together and there is no excuse for any of us to undermined the rights of any other of us. Or as Benjamin Franklin put it, “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” So remember the words of Pastor Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
Pastor Martin Niemoller – Germany, 1945