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  • Fitz

    He was not Allen’s partner for 30 years– just HIS last partner was AG, 30 years ago. Ginsberg went through a series of teenage boys that he dumped like hot potatoes when they became adults. He is NOT a role model.

  • SmartVac

    Fitz, please elaborate. Orlovsky’s last partner was AG and that was 30 years ago? He hasn’t been in a relationship since?

    AG liked teen boys only while they were teens?

    How is the movie about AG (the one with James Franco) going to deal with all this reality disappointment?

  • Fitz

    @SmartVac: I don’t have the material handy, and a quick google didn’t help me find it again– but yeah.. Ginsberg left a trail of injured young men. He liked them young, like 14- and he lavished them until they her 18 or 19, and then he was done with them. Several of his boys got together and wrote a really important piece about it 10 or 15 years ago. Maybe even 20. But he was scum, and one of the founders of NAMBLA, and I am so OVER people idolizing him because he wrote an angry poem. He was a sick sad man, who is thankfully dead.

  • Aubrey

    @Fitz: Let me add a correction to your accusations. First, Ginsberg was not “one of the founders of NAMBLA”. He joined NAMBLA in ’94 (it was ‘founded’ in the late 70s) – as a free speech act. He quite within the same year, after writing a series of essays discussing the love of young men (boys) and it’s place in history. He was not interested in supporting NAMBLA as an organization.
    By reading Ginsberg’s take on the subject you would find it more of an academic exercise for Ginsberg. i.e., he referenced Greek, Roman, Japanese (Samurai) traditions throughout history, and how the love of young men was an essential component of several societies.
    Re: Orlovsky. I believe they considered themselves ‘partners’ throughout their lives. But they did not live as a married couple. Even ‘open relationship’ would not quite suffice in describing them.
    I don’t know about his alleged paedophilia – maybe so, maybe not. But he did more than write “an angry poem”.
    And one stint of a few months time trying to make an argument in favor of free speech – whether anyone agrees or not – does not make him a sick sad man.
    I never met Ginsberg. I did meet and spend some time with Orlovsky in SF many years ago.
    And your characterization of Ginsberg is completely opposite of my perception.
    But to clarify, Ginsberg was not a founder of NAMBLA, and he was not a supporter of the organization itself. All you have to do is read for yourself. (the texts themselves, not just a quickie google fix.)

  • greybat

    Could we get a picture, please?

  • Coats

    First off; come on, fitz. this isn’t even about Allen, this was about his partner Peter, a poet in his own right, who just passed away. Wouldn’t writing something nice about him have been better than ranting on his partner?

    Here’s a great link to Peter’s work, for those who are interested: Really beautiful work.

    Second; It’s disappointing to find out that Allen was into kids, no matter what his group affiliation with NAMBLA was. Not really anything good you can say about that.

    But as Aubrey illustrated, Allen did more than write one angry poem. He wrote books of them. He was also a founder of both the Beat and Hippie movement, among others, making him one of the most important cultural figures of the 20th century; also one of the least discussed among anyone outside the counter-culture. If he was really into kids, it’s terrible and shouldn’t be ignored by admirers, but it doesn’t change what he accomplished in this country and the cultural landscape many of us take for granted as a result.

  • Steve Silberman

    Fitz is spouting utter ignorant nonsense and disinformation. I knew Allen well for 20 years. Allen was loyal to his lovers long after they got older and even got married and had kids. Fitz simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    Here’s my memoir of Peter for interested readers:

  • Nan

    Oh, I am so dismayed to learn that Mr. Ginsberg had an association with NAMBLA, for whatever reason, for whatever length of time. I don’t know how I didn’t know this before. No one is more for free speech than I, but this group exists only to encourage and empower child abusers. Thanks for the info here.

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