I always agreed that civil unions are best for gays bc they don’t infringe on religion. But then the far right got greedy and didn’t even want to grant civil unions. I’ve always said to others, if the far right want to keep marriage as between one man and one woman bc of religious reasons, then they should treat divorce as such. Divorce should be considered a murder of a marriage and ppl should go to jail just like they would if they killed someone. That would shut up all those hypocritical religious cult members immediately
The CIVIL RIGHT of marriage is completely different than the religious RITE. Please don’t conflate the two. A “Civil Union” is the same as Jim Crow – “Separate but equal.” – when it is, in proven reality, NOT equal. Also, “equivalent” is not the same as “equal,” as my husband found out when he went to get the money he put into his retirement for the Federal Government and was taxed for it because the regulation stated “equivalent.” If it had said “equal,” he would have gotten the full amount tax free.
Uh, denying me marriage to my partner, when my deeply held religious belief includes “homosexuality is NOT sin”, infringes on my religious freedom. Religion is not predominantly “far right”, in fact, conservatism is intrinsically incompatible with Christianity.
@Andy_D good point. Many people seem to confuse the secular legal contract of “marriage” with the religious covenant of “matrimony”. You’re right. They are not the same thing. We don’t need a special name to keep the religious aspect out of it. Plus, some same sex couples do belong to gay affirming faiths and do have the religious aspect anyway.
A civil union is not equivalent or equal. What is equal is marriage.
The Conservative Right are having shit fit by trying to scare their lambs into thinking that gay marriage means churches must perform the religious rite of marriage.
Congratulations to the Pope. It’s 2020 and he has progressed to the Separate but Equal ideology used by segregationists. At this rate the Catholic Church will hit full equality about 40 years after I die.
He’s not there yet. Getting closer and closer, inch by inch. I doubt the Catholic Church, Baptist, or the Mormon church will get there in my lifetime. They’ve preached for centuries the hatred of the LGBTQ, except then they called them queers, they just can’t change their hatred now because they raised too much money the other way.
Don’t conflate religion and secular government. This is the Pope – not the president. This is entirely about an internal RELIGIOUS matter for Catholics. So, it’s not really about “2nd class citizenship” where citizenship and civil rights are matters of state, not religion. And it’s not “separate but equal” – again a concept related to citizenship and government. This is about religious doctrine and religious marriage and how non-heterosexuals can have unions recognized within the Roman Catholic faith for the purposes of the faith community – not the civic body.
Actually, for people saying that this is an “internal religious matter for Catholics,” this actually goes much further. In effect, the pope is saying that all states across the globe, but especially ones with large Roman Catholic ones (as has occurred in Europe and North America) should create laws that move toward providing equality for LGBTQ people. This is a radical step for the papacy and Catholic Church, which is the largest Christian faith on earth (1 billion faithful, spanning every continent), and though it falls far short of same-sex marriage and full equality, it is a significant leap given that the pope not only has not backed away from having said it, but is presenting it as if it something that Catholic clerics and faithful should take as doctrine.
The bizarre thing about all of this is that the pope made these remarks in 2019 to a Mexican broadcaster. For whatever reason, neither the broadcaster nor the Vatican released them, but the footage was in the Vatican’s archives, so when the openly gay filmmaker of Francesco found the footage, he included it, and received zero pushback from the Vatican. In fact, he was feted recently at the Vatican! So what is going on? Did the Mexican broadcaster censor the comments a year ago? Did the Vatican? Were they waiting for someone like this director to put this out there? It’s worthy of a hour-long investigative news report itself.
ingyaom
Haven’t we tried 2nd-class citizenship before?
cuteguy
I always agreed that civil unions are best for gays bc they don’t infringe on religion. But then the far right got greedy and didn’t even want to grant civil unions. I’ve always said to others, if the far right want to keep marriage as between one man and one woman bc of religious reasons, then they should treat divorce as such. Divorce should be considered a murder of a marriage and ppl should go to jail just like they would if they killed someone. That would shut up all those hypocritical religious cult members immediately
andy_d
The CIVIL RIGHT of marriage is completely different than the religious RITE. Please don’t conflate the two. A “Civil Union” is the same as Jim Crow – “Separate but equal.” – when it is, in proven reality, NOT equal. Also, “equivalent” is not the same as “equal,” as my husband found out when he went to get the money he put into his retirement for the Federal Government and was taxed for it because the regulation stated “equivalent.” If it had said “equal,” he would have gotten the full amount tax free.
Erik
Uh, denying me marriage to my partner, when my deeply held religious belief includes “homosexuality is NOT sin”, infringes on my religious freedom. Religion is not predominantly “far right”, in fact, conservatism is intrinsically incompatible with Christianity.
DarkZephyr
@Andy_D good point. Many people seem to confuse the secular legal contract of “marriage” with the religious covenant of “matrimony”. You’re right. They are not the same thing. We don’t need a special name to keep the religious aspect out of it. Plus, some same sex couples do belong to gay affirming faiths and do have the religious aspect anyway.
radiooutmike
A civil union is not equivalent or equal. What is equal is marriage.
The Conservative Right are having shit fit by trying to scare their lambs into thinking that gay marriage means churches must perform the religious rite of marriage.
Which is preposterous.
Cam
Except people born a certain way shouldn’t have our rights trampled on by people who choose to belong to organizations that preach hate.
How about if Religions want to not be legislated against, they should stop promoting bigotry and hate.
cliche guevara
Congratulations to the Pope. It’s 2020 and he has progressed to the Separate but Equal ideology used by segregationists. At this rate the Catholic Church will hit full equality about 40 years after I die.
TomG
Well, look at how long it took them to admit that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi.
Jim
This pope gives me hope
Mack
He’s not there yet. Getting closer and closer, inch by inch. I doubt the Catholic Church, Baptist, or the Mormon church will get there in my lifetime. They’ve preached for centuries the hatred of the LGBTQ, except then they called them queers, they just can’t change their hatred now because they raised too much money the other way.
TomG
Close enough but no cigar Mr. Pope. (The cigar reference was intentional)
Fname Optional Lname
So the current Pope is embracing the mindset of the 1890’s! How edgy!
trsxyz
Teeny-tiny baby steps forward I guess…
wikidBSTN
Don’t conflate religion and secular government. This is the Pope – not the president. This is entirely about an internal RELIGIOUS matter for Catholics. So, it’s not really about “2nd class citizenship” where citizenship and civil rights are matters of state, not religion. And it’s not “separate but equal” – again a concept related to citizenship and government. This is about religious doctrine and religious marriage and how non-heterosexuals can have unions recognized within the Roman Catholic faith for the purposes of the faith community – not the civic body.
Kangol2
Actually, for people saying that this is an “internal religious matter for Catholics,” this actually goes much further. In effect, the pope is saying that all states across the globe, but especially ones with large Roman Catholic ones (as has occurred in Europe and North America) should create laws that move toward providing equality for LGBTQ people. This is a radical step for the papacy and Catholic Church, which is the largest Christian faith on earth (1 billion faithful, spanning every continent), and though it falls far short of same-sex marriage and full equality, it is a significant leap given that the pope not only has not backed away from having said it, but is presenting it as if it something that Catholic clerics and faithful should take as doctrine.
The bizarre thing about all of this is that the pope made these remarks in 2019 to a Mexican broadcaster. For whatever reason, neither the broadcaster nor the Vatican released them, but the footage was in the Vatican’s archives, so when the openly gay filmmaker of Francesco found the footage, he included it, and received zero pushback from the Vatican. In fact, he was feted recently at the Vatican! So what is going on? Did the Mexican broadcaster censor the comments a year ago? Did the Vatican? Were they waiting for someone like this director to put this out there? It’s worthy of a hour-long investigative news report itself.