“No one should have to worry about getting a death threat because of the way he or she votes.” Those are the words of James Bopp Jr., an attorney representing two pro-Prop 8 groups in their fight to keep their donor records anonymous. And ya know what? Bopp is right. Nobody should have to worry about threats to their life just because of the way they voted. Only problem? Nobody should have to worry about threats to their life just because of they way they were born, and as plenty of gay, trans, and bi men and women can attest, growing up queer usually accompanies a death threat.
Now, the way you were born and they way you voted … only one of those is a choice. So we’ve got very little sympathy for Prop 8 organizations trying to use litigation to hide their donor lists under the guise of possible death threats. Should anybody be calling for these people’s literal heads? No. But if they give money to support a cause that legally requires their identities be made public, should they be required to face criticism? Absolutely.
Here’s the gist of what’s going on via the AP:
Supporters of the ballot measure that banned gay marriage in California have filed a lawsuit seeking to block their campaign finance records from public view, saying the reports have led to the harassment of donors.
“No one should have to worry about getting a death threat because of the way he or she votes,” said James Bopp Jr., an attorney representing two groups that supported Proposition 8, Protect Marriage.com and the National Organization for Marriage California. “This lawsuit will protect the right of all people to help support causes they agree with, without having to worry about harassment or threats.”
The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in federal court in Sacramento, asks the court to order the secretary of state’s office to remove all donations for the proposition from its Web site.
It also asks the court to relieve the two groups and “all similarly situated persons” from having to meet the state’s campaign disclosure requirements. That would include having to file a final report on Proposition 8 contributions at the end of January, as well as reports for any future campaigns the groups undertake.
Which is, frankly, ridiculous. By donating money to fight Prop 8, these individuals were voluntarily adding their names to public records. They knew, before they signed a cheque, that their names were going to be added to a public tally of who donated to strip away the rights of Californians. And if they didn’t know? Perhaps they should’ve asked questions about where their money was going before following every demand of the Mormon Church.
How about we take this to the next level?
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ProtectMarriage.com and the National Organization for Marriage California want the donor records removed from public view; namely, the state’s websites. In a lawsuit hoping to accomplish it, they cite violent backlash from Prop 8 opponents:
The lawsuit filed Wednesday cites a series of incidents in which those who gave money to support Proposition 8 received threatening phone calls, e-mails and postcards. One woman claims she was told: “If I had a gun, I would have gunned you down along with each and every other supporter.”
Another donor reported a broken window, one said a flier calling him a bigot was distributed around his hometown and others received envelopes containing suspicious white power, according to the lawsuit.
The acts of violence? We don’t condone them. But making a public mockery of those who donated to support Prop 8? We’re kind of okay with it, since their cash helped fund an initiative that made a public mockery of every gay man and woman.
And here’s one of our favorite arguments from the lawsuit, according to the AP: “Businesses employing people who contributed to the Proposition 8 campaign have been threatened with boycotts.” Uh, yeah, that’s the point of making these records public. If you want to donate to a cause that marginalizes the queer community, you absolutely shouldn’t expect our dollars in your pocket.
If all that weren’t enough to keep these donor records public — and the names of those who donated money to fight Prop 8 should also remain public — here’s why it’s important to keep those names out there: Because it could limit the pro-Prop 8 organizers’ ability to raise funds to fight gay marriage again.
Supporters of the gay marriage ban fear the donor backlash will hurt their efforts to raise money in the future, perhaps to fight an initiative seeking to overturn the ban.
“Several donors have indicated that they will not contribute to committee plaintiffs or similar organizations in the future because of the threats and harassment directed at them as a result of their contributions … and the public disclosure of that fact,” the lawsuit said.
Wayne
Proving yet again that boycotts work.
Sean
Funny how when it was the anti-Prop 8 donators – namely businesses – the Pro-Prop 8 forces had no fear calling for boycotts or sending threatening letters to those businesses. Open government is necessary to ensure corruption doesn’t happen. This is another attempt at separate but equal. I do not condone the harrassment of these people and businesses but I cannot support giving people special waivers at the expense of open government.
Saturday
If they really stood behind their beliefs wouldn’t they stick with them no matter how tough things got? It’s funny that as soon as something happens people are so quick to run in the opposite direction and hide.
Maybe they expected us to just drop to the ground and die instead of fight?
Eric
There should be huge billboards with the names, addresses, phone numbers, and employers of every single person who gave a dollar supporting this. They should be the billboards of shame.
PatrickD
It’s typical Bully behavior. Attack folks then when they DARE to fight back, run to “Daddy” to complain of being the one picked on.
Personally? I no longer shop at Mormon or Catholic-owned businesses. Hate Me, Hate my Money!
Tim in SF
@Wayne: Proving yet again that boycotts work
Not to nitpick, but the complaint was “Businesses employing people who contributed to the Proposition 8 campaign have been threatened with boycotts.” Boycotts work sometimes, but often not as well as the threat of a boycott.
ask ena
Every gay right that is blocked by these nimrods gives the rest of the world one more excuse to perpetrate acts of violence upon US.
You cannot be “friends of gays” (the whole Rick Warren debacle) and then vote against our rights. There is just too much connection between unequal rights leading to the justification for acts of violence and discrimination against gays and lesbians.
Kenster999
Sorry, but the law requires this type of disclosure. We can’t have “activist judges” overturning the law!
ChicagoJimmy
Freedom doesn’t come cheap and the freedom of expression comes with the likelihood that someone opposed to you will also express himself.
I you start a knife fight, you better be prepared to bleed.
PatrickD
The sadly funny thing is that ‘Phobes have had a Free Ride for so long their not ready to “deal” with Consequences of their Actions and Beliefs. They’re also not really Interested in “Suffering” for thier Beliefs like their Ancestors. All those unwashed Phophets and clergy must be spinning in their graves that their Descendants lose their Convictions not over loss of Income but the POSSIBILITY of. ‘Course, I personally prefer the spineless, gutless “Soldier of Christ”;>…
Dick Mills
One thing that is important to mention is that this law suit won’t have any affect on the Prop 8 contributors. Their names are all out there, and you can’t un-ring that bell.
What this law suit tells me is that these hateful haters are planning for their next initiative drives to eliminate basic civil rights from other California minorities. And, if they are successful in finding some “activist” judge to side with them, then they will be able to attack any (and all) minorities with impunity.
Women, ethnic minorities, the disabled, old-people all should be up in arms about proposition 8, and about the fairly overt attempts by the hateful haters to absolve their contributors from having to face the music after the next election.
cmh
ChicagoJimmy… indeed.
Tim in SF
I really love this story.
The fact that they are upset enough to file a lawsuit to conceal their activities is proof positive not only that their activities are loathsome, but that these people know what they look like when they are being bigoted. They cannot stand the light of day. They are afraid to stand by their actions and opinions and are fighting for the ability to stab at us anonymously.
The bigots are embarrassed at their own behavior, at least socially, on some level.
This is a good start.
Chris
Prop 8 is disgusting, so I’m not surprised people are too ashamed to “out” themselves as donors. One person who probably wouldn’t be is Melanie Phillips, a British newspaper columnist who writes for right-wing British tabloid newspaper the Daily Mail. She is virulently homophobic and would doubtless be a big Prop 8 supporter. She also poses a threat to this website winning the Blog of the Year Awards:
http://www.createdinbirmingham.com/
It essentially brings together the creative community in Birmingham (UK) and gives a space for reviews, shout outs, adverts but rather than being made by paid officials at a newspaper it’s all run by local artists.
It’s fun, funky and focuses on stuff that mainstream media misses.
In other words, it’s really rather ace.
As things stand, only Melanie Phillips can stop Created in Birmingham from winning. So please vote for CIB to stop the award going to a woman whose views come straight out of the Dark Ages.
Vote today!
Chris
mjf
To say that these people are disgusting hypocrites is an insult to disgusting hypocrites! The disgusting hypocrites of the world must be very upset that someone like Andrew Pugno has sullied their name.
I definately remember this article in the San Jose Mercury News:
Article Title: Calif. gay marriage ban backers target businesses
Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_10796847?nclick_check=1
Snippet:
Leaders of the campaign to outlaw same-sex marriage in California are warning businesses that have given money to the state’s largest gay rights group they will be publicly identified as opponents of traditional unions unless they contribute to the gay marriage ban, too.
ProtectMarriage.com, the umbrella group behind a ballot initiative that would overturn the California Supreme Court decision that legalized gay marriage, sent a certified letter this week asking companies to withdraw their support of Equality California, a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8.
“Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error,” reads the letter. “Were you to elect not to donate comparably, it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage. … The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published.”
The letter was signed by four members of the group’s executive committee: campaign chairman Ron Prentice; Edward Dolejsi, executive director of the California Catholic Conference; Mark Jansson, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and Andrew Pugno, the lawyer for ProtectMarriage.com. A donation form was attached. The letter did not say where the names would be published.
Steve
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
The ProtectMarriage organization used public records of companies that contributed to EqualityCalifornia, to EXTORT money from those companies. They actually threatened the companies that, if they failed to contribute to ProtectMarriage, they would be targeted for adverse actions.
Then, a couple months later, ProtectMarriage wants to prevent its own contributors list from being made public. This time, they claim that a small number of their contributors want to avoid possible adverse actions that might be initiated by people who support ProtectMarriage.
So the extortionist is seeking protection from the possibility of retaliation by opponents who have demonstrated a firm commitment to peaceful, lawful, process?
If the judge has any sense of justice, he/she should reject that suite, and instead order a judgment for the defense. The judgment should include that ProtectMarriage pay to EqualityCalifornia enough money to publish the entire ProtectMarriage donor list in the biggest newspaper in the state.
Will
Sorry to be the dissenting opinion here but while what they voted for was wrong, which I fully and utterly believe, two wrongs NEVER make a right. Protesting? Fine. Boycotting? Okay. Those are within the limits. Physical threats? That’s pushing it WELL past the line.
They might have bullied but I for one learned when I was a child that when a bully falls down, you don’t bully them back. If you do, you become just as bad as they are. No, scratch that. You become WORSE because you know what the bullying feels like yourself yet you still are willing to subject another human being to it. The correct answer is to be the better person, not stoop down to their level.
This country was -not- founded on the basis that if someone doesn’t believe one way or another they should get threatened, harassed or anything of the sort. They do it to us, it’s horrible. We do it to them, it’s justice?
Think about it before you call out hypocrite. Think very carefully. If we can’t even rise to be the better men, women, zims, or people in general… who will be?
Tim in SF
@Will: Thank you for stating the obvious, Will. You truly have a gift.
BTW, I just re-read every comment and I can’t find where anyone is advocating physical threats against anyone else. If you are reading that here, please point it out for me.
Most reasonable people agree that threats of violence are beyond the pale (as well as being illegal). I think it’s obvious enough we don’t have to spend time stating it.
So, can we get back to the discussion now?
Thanks.
PS: Will, look up “signal to noise ratio” on Wikipedia
audiored
I’m not at all uncomfortable that these people are being harassed.
If they were being shot or their churches fire bombed, that would be a different story.
The fact is they engaged in a public political act. They are the ones that stepped into the private lives of thousands of Cali families and harassed them.
A little name calling and graffiti or what ever the fuck these whinny bitches are complaining about is the least they should expect.
gwendelen
I use the prop. 8 donation database as my shopping guide. I check everyone I do business with to ensure that they did not fund the removal of my son’s equal rights. Damn right it’s personal, it’s my money and I will never support bigots.
Bryan
How ironic, as a nonchristian, to find myself quoting the bible with regard to the desire for concealment and anonymity in one’s affairs, as well as any alleged right to attack other people from behind a screen of legislated “privacy”:
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”
John 3:20
vonschmitt
What’s a homo to think of all this nonsense?
“You get what you paid for”
When you…
“put your money where your mouth is…”
and ultimately…
“payback is a bitch” – ???
Let’s play nice ya’ll – cause sin will find them out.
Bruno
The Yes on 8 folks and applicable Christian clergy continue to try and create a persecution scenario. I don’t think a lot of people will think to themselves, “oh, yeah, those gays really know how to persecute people of faith.” It’s almost comical to think in those terms.
Will
Who said I was talking about the posters advocating physical violence? Don’t put words in to my mouth. Read the article. You’ll see that people were threatened beyond the legal means. And the article doesn’t even hide the obvious delight author had for this. And reading the comments show exactly what I was pointing out. Bully mentality. We were picked on, so now instead of turning the other cheek and moving ahead with what matters, we’re picking old fights back up where it won’t even help other than to see a few knocked out teeth. Can you seriously say that this is how we should behave? Joyfully taking out revenge on others?
You say that’s not the issue, but the entire article focus of the article isn’t even remotely about the issue of making the records public or private. It’s mostly goading over the fact that “Packback’s a bitch” using one issue, the lawsuits, to push that. And that was what I was addressing, that it might just be a bitch, but do we really have to act that way?
If you think harassing people for how they voted or what they believe is okay? Then have a ball. People were threatened beyond boycotts and petitions. That’s not okay. Even with the boycotts and petitions, what’s the reason for them? Oh ya, supporting their viewpoints just like we supported ours. And people are acting as if this revenge is fair play. This isn’t adult behavior, this is a childish “You threw a rock at me, I’ll throw it back at you!” mentality.
There are better ways to use your time rather than take it out on those who don’t follow your viewpoint, especially in furthering the movement you all are so loudly saying needs to move forward. Boycotting and protesting will not get people to vote differently, it just is for the basic instinct of “We don’t like you.” Yes, it’s a wonderful display of unity in the fact that we’re fed up and we’re not going to take this lightly. It shows we’re out there and it shows we have people who love us for who we are. But after a point, it becomes counterproductive, especially if they are all done in the spirit of revenge instead of progress.
You don’t get people’s views to change by forcing them to hide their beliefs. If we keep it up, all we will have ended up doing is emulating those who stuffed every GLBTQ person in to the closet. You get them to change by making them think for a bit longer than they have before and giving them a reason to think. How you do that and what message you try to convey in that is crucial. If you make them think with their wallets, it won’t even begin to make them think with what matters.
I’m not saying that reacting against what they’ve done is bad, however the obvious venom and malice I’ve read in most of the things here prove that these reactions are for the wrong reasons. I for one don’t want our equality to be built on spiteful rebuttal. I’d like to see some semblance of humanity in how we deal with those who we don’t agree with or even like. Not just an anamalistic “You bite, we’ll bite back”.
So, excuse me for hoping to see some semblance of adult behavior. If you want to stoop down to their level, that’s okay, I can’t stop you. But in the end, you will end up being no better than they are. Hating them for a single trait about them just as they hate you for a single trait about you. All human beings, regardless of how vile, are still humans and to even think about hating them without even knowing them is horrible.
You don’t know why they think the way they do. Maybe they were misinformed? Yet you instinctively jump to “We don’t like them” instead of actually trying to do something. Maybe if you spent a bit less time hating them and a bit more time getting to know them, you might at least get one more person to realize we’re not demonic beings who are bent on destroying their precious culture. And viola, you have one less bigot. And if you don’t succeed, at least you didn’t sink down to their level of hating without even knowing.
As for the issue, yes the entire making the records private is not going to happen and if it does, it’ll get overturned in a heartbeat. No duh.
Vartan Hagopian
Yes this is a proven fact.Formerly only about 68 percent of British males were homosexual but eventually they realized that homosexuality was so rampant within the territories of their Scottish and Irish neighbours( who themselves adopted the practice from the Arabs) that the British decided to increase the incidence among their own population to 100 percent. ibid. Encyclopedia of Culture and History
topblknavy
Sorry, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I just can’t believe these folks are turning to the same court system that spurred them to action in the first place.
Bruno
@Will:
Yes there were a few instances of people being illegally threatened (the white powder envelopes, the woman with the cross in Palm Springs). But what I’ve seen is that mostly the Yes on 8 folks are trying to conflate peaceful protesting and legal boycotting with rampant acts of violence. This simply is not the case, and it’s misleading and hateful for that side to try to make “homosexual activists” look like terrorists. But that’s what they do.
I don’t think any of us, including the article writer, are “delighting” in any of the acts of violence. We just don’t think they’re indicative of the crux of our movement, and resent being put into a box that calls us all violent and anti-humane. That’s what they’ve been saying about gays & lesbians for years, without any of these instances.
Will
I know that most people in the movement don’t think that violence is the way and I’m glad about that. But even the way of thinking can be disastrous. I just think that while violence is not the way, neither is hate. I just seriously don’t believe that fighting hate with hate causes anything but war and I can’t find anywhere that fighting hate with hate has really solved an issue. I think it’d just be more productive for people to be happy not because other people are being moved back but because we are being moved forward. If we become what we are fighting, all of the things we’ve done, all of the things we’re doing, it won’t really be for anything. We’ll have become our own worst enemy.
BrianZ
@Will: I agree with you that people should not be threatened with physical violence or mental anguish. That’s pretty much the extent of where I agree with you.
First off, standing up to a bully, in this case those who choose to persecute others does not make you a bully. In fact, I’m slightly nauseated that you choose to perpetuate the notion that these people are somehow “victims” because suddenly the world knows they are homophobic bigots and the persecuted are willing to show them that it’s not “OK”.
In my humble opinion if you react to the stripping of rights, such as what happened in California, with anything but complete outrage and indignation then you have either no idea what really just happened or you have some self-loathing going on. Either way, look in to it and get it fixed: There are people that can help.
This is not about hating anyone, it’s about not accepting bigotry and homophobia. I, personally, am a little tired of the suggestion that I need to shoulder the responsibility of teaching every homophobe that I’m really an ok guy and not the anti-christ. In fact, I’m pretty pissed off and not feeling so warm and fuzzy anymore.
Bruno
@Will:
I hear what you’re saying, but hate is a human emotion. One generally doesn’t wake up one day and say “I think I should hate this group of people.” It just occurs. And we have to confront those emotions and their causes. Non-violently, but with conviction.
Dana in NYC
I’m a hetero married woman with a lesbian birth daughter who wants her to have what America promises: “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. I believe Nature made her and that Nature is the true book of God, not that bad translation of a bad translation of a mish-mash book. I don’t seek to impose this belief on others, I simply want my daughter to have all the rights I have. People who voted yes on Proposition 8 do not want to be identified and stigmatized for their votes yet they have intruded their views and beliefs into the public sphere and are directly impeding my daughter’s right to a full life. The Prop 8 people’s court actions remind me of craven cockroaches scurrying away from the light. They don’t own marriage and their values are based on exclusion and selective readings of an old book. My values are based on equality under the law without my attempting to speak for God. Which stance is more truly American? Out them all I say and let them reap what they’ve sown. They should appreciate and support the justice of this considering the source.
Mark
Funny how Mormons want so much power and control over others, huh?
The Realist
@Bruno: Hate is a human emotion but is also a learned emotion. The children brought up in the Westboro Baptist Nutjob Cult were taught to hate based on Fred Phelps twisted logic.
My personal opinion is, fear is an innate emotion born of ones natural need to protect. Hate born of ignorance and bigotry is an emotion, oddly enough, taught.
ben
The anti-gay “family” organizations have been using threats of boycotts and intimidation for a long long time against businesses that were supportive of gay rights. There were also complaints during the run up to the election from business people who had contributed money to fight prop 8 that they received boycott threats trying to make them contribute equal money to the pro prop 8 campaign.
These groups are disgusting hypocrites. As soon as some of their own tactics are used against them they cry foul and play victims.
The Realist
@Mark: @Mark: @Mark: Hard to break old habits. They and most other faiths have been trying to control peoples thoughts,beliefs, and actions since the beginning of time. Thats just what they do.
dina little
They aren’t ashamed, they are afraid for their lives!!
I believe the way those who oppose prop 8 have been bullying those who support it are acting like nothing more then brown shirt bullies. What next, a Krystle Nacht against all Christians and Mormons?
What ever sympathy people had for the gay rights movement was lost with the mafia style bully tactics. People have a right to support what they like.
You are all complaining about people trying to control you? Who’s trying to control who? I can see you all think you are all good and ‘nice’ people who just want whats fair, but if you can’t get what you want through the traditional democratic channels, you resort to bullying, anarchy and terrorism, are you so good then??
no. You are not.