Prop 8 May Still Have Chance

All may not be lost in terms of Proposition 8, the California ballot measure that seems to have overturned gay marriage.

According to DailyKos, California Supreme Court Justice Ronald George, who wrote the majority opinion based on his state’s precedent, not the Supreme Court, did not create a suspect class for gay folk, thereby leaving some wiggle room for debate:

There is ample precedent under CA law that alterations of fundamental rights cannot to done with a mere amendment via majority vote of the electorate. This would constitute a “revision” of the CA Constitution would requires 2/3 vote of both Houses of Legislature AND a 2/3 vote by the electorate or alternatively a State Constitutional Convention called by 2/3 vote of both houses.

Activists are also hoping the 3-4 million uncounted ballots can help swing the polls back in our direction.

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    Good luck with the justices who allowed for their decision to be put for a vote overturning the will of the people.


  • rob

    Civil rights should never be up for a vote!!!

  • Scooter

    Even in Seattle we are praying for an upset in Prop 8. No one’s rights should ever be in the hands of others.

  • Jennifer McMahon

    I am sorry for all of the bigots that voted yes. When all of those hate commercials started playing I got scared and I got louder.

    As future fights for civil rights begin I am in your army of support and work. I think if there are funds Yes on 8 supporters should get a public shaming.
    Associate supporters with past bigots. I am a straight woman that is totally heart broken about this. I guess I just have the need to send a message that there is hope, that you have my support and I am still going to fight for what is right.

  • Bg1137

    I’m devastated…i hope this is true.

  • Rsquared

    The Christian right and other California conservatives believe that marriage is a religious right (and term of art). The drafters of this amendment wisely (if hatefully) used that in drafting the amendment. Those for gay marriage should push their cause as ‘civil union’ leaving marriage to the respective churches.
    Regardless, so much for separation of church and state.
    Shame on California.

  • fredo777

    Where are some of those remaining votes coming from, do we know? As in, which precincts haven’t been fully accounted for yet?

  • emb

    It’s the whole screwy religion thing again. “Marriage” and “Weddings” are two different things; we’ve permitted the religoids to conflate them, so a civil, legal relationship (marriage) is equated in their minds and in their propaganda to religious ceremonies performed by churches (frequently by men in flowing gowns and lavish headwear, but nevermind that bit).

    I would love a legal loophole to get us out of this mess. I would love a court ruling that Prop 8 is an unconstitutional attempt to amend the constition. I would love the absentee and early uncounted votes to turn the tide.

    But I’m not holding my breath.

  • Doug

    Not true.

    There are not 4 million uncounted ballots.

    Thank the dumb dyke who brought her class to City Hall for a field trip to watch her marriage and the idiot, Gavin Newsom, for performing the wedding. Idiots. Three weeks before the election. Idiots.

    Sfgate and local gay groups (also CNN) have said prop 8 passed.

  • Trenton

    Everyone I know here in Seattle is stunned…even people I never suspected would give a damn. It’s been a bit of a solace, though I still can’t quite work up an appetite or concentrate very well.

    If there is hope, I may just tell my family that they can earn back an iota of my respect by writing a check to any action involved in stopping 8. Otherwise, my (ex-gay) bother can find a new best man for his beach wedding in pissant Florida—the furthest place from where I want to be anyways.

    I need a fucking drink.

  • Thanks

    Not voting for Gavin “whether you like it or not” Newsom for Governor. He can take his Howard Dean and second wife and slither away.


  • Tara

    Fuck this Fuk that Fuck Blame, Guess what. We lost, we can blame it on Ellen, Mayor Newsom, Teh Mormons, teh blacks etc but the truth is it does not mean shit, WE LOST. We cannot lose next time.

    Suck it up. Blaming just makes us petty and childish.

    Sit down, make phone calls, lets make sure that by 2012 we can get married anywhere!

  • frank kameny

    “Whether you like it or not…”

    C’mon, you just have to admit the delicious irony of it all.

  • fredo777

    Doug, only 95% of the vote has been recorded, according to just now + also the web site.

    So, yeah.

  • fredo777

    Btw, Cunt-hilly, I will never click any link that you post. Ever. You are not to be trusted.

    In the future, don’t bother.

  • Matt B

    The only people we can blame are ourselves. How much money has the gay community spent on alcohol, clothing, and material items since Prop 8 was put on the ballot? How much time was spent at dance clubs and bars?

    Compare that to what you did to defeat Prop 8, and what the community did.

    Sure, we raised an impressive total but we could’ve done so much more.

    The time for Pride Parades is over. Now is the time for Pride Protests. From San Francisco, to San Diego, to Fresno and Bakersfield, all the way to Atlanta, NYC, Chicago, and Washington D.C.

    If they want a culture war, lets hit them with a blitzkreig.

  • Tara

    Matt, We agree.

    Let us do this thing!

  • Mark

    Let’s be very clear here. The Mormons are NOT trying to stop church weddings. No way. No how. They know that some churches will perform a same-sex wedding. Some churches have been doing this for decades.

    The Mormons were only trying to prevent the STATE from making them legal. Nonetheless, they LIED their A**ES off telling the public that the STATE would FORCE all churches to perform weddings.

    Surprise! Religious people lying once again because they haven’t a leg to stand on legally.

    And the irony? If Yes on 8 is upheld, it won’t stop one single church wedding in the state. Not one. They simply will revert to not being legally sanctioned by the State once again.

    No on 8 was nothing short of the complete intrusion of the CHURCH into STATE affairs. Nothing less.

  • DaleJag

    Since all these churches have money to throw into politics (seperation of church and state) Maybe they should start being taxed!!!!

    I’m all for it!

  • Woof

    We were all at a bar here in Long Beach, Ca and ecstatic when the Obama announcement came in. The entire bar was cheering and hugging because of the magnitude of the historic event and change. Not 20 min later the first Prop 8 polls came out. Everyone was devastated to see it open with a 10% lead. The entire bar was stunned into silince. I am still just devastated over the whole thing. Feels like hate won.

    And Churchhill-y, for once please have some respect over something this heartbreaking, geez.

  • scott

    75% of african american women and 73% of african american men voted yes on Prop 8. The single largest demos for yes in the state other than “republicans/conservatives”

  • dgz

    yeah, scott — the African-American religious community is notoriously anti-gay. So, indirectly Obama’s get-out-the-vote probably hurt civil rights. ironic. the only group (according to CNN exit polls) that almost saved us was white women. so, Ellen probably did her thing.

    as for the legal arguments, don’t anyone get your hopes up. find me ONE ballot initiative that has been successfully challenged. doesn’t happen. for a good example, check the affirmative action cases and ballot initiative in Michigan.

    but ballot initiatives should be unconstitutional. we live in a representative democracy — a republic — for a reason. the majority can be a tyranny, too — just ask African Americans for the past 300 years.

  • 46n2

    I don’t understand why they don’t just pass a ‘civil union’ prop. which will be honored by the state. This way the religious folks still feel the sanctity of marriage preserved but homosexuals can still say ‘husband’ or ‘wife’ and retain the priviledges allocated to traditional marriage. The platforms for Obama have read he doesn’t support ‘gay marriage’ but does support ‘civil unions’ so maybe that will happen now that he’s in.

  • JPinWeHo

    I think the legal challenge might have a good shot. The post is a bit confusingly written as the CA Supreme Court decision DID find that sexual orientation was a protected class deserving of equal protection and that marriage is a fundamental right. With Prop 8 passing we now have two conflicting provisions: (1) an equal protection clause guaranteeding all protected classes to be treated equally and (2) a new amendment stating that a protected class should be treated unequally. Either the amendment is an unconstitutional usurping of the justice’s duty to interpret the constitution or the CA Supreme Court will have to effectively revise the Equal Protection Clause under the California constitution to now be the Partial Equal Protection Clause.

  • Tara

    Hey great idea! Oh , wait, no its not. It is separate but “equal”. That is wrong. More to the point, they will fight those too. Look at Oregon. The Alliance Defense Fund promised that if we went Domestic Partnership they would not fight it. Until oops, they did.

  • Paul Raposo

    Otherwise, my (ex-gay) bother can find a new best man for his beach wedding…

    Trenton, your brother is an ex-gay? What’s it like dealing with that?

  • Fred C

    Gays have always had the right to be married to each other. They need to stop the argument about
    equal treatment and try a new approach. Marriage is a form of speech. It is a formal contract and
    is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S.
    Constitution. How can the society deny the right to free speech for anyone without repealing the
    First Amendment? I don’t think that you will find many that will vote for a repeal.

  • ajax

    Actually, I think we should trump the fundies at their own game. They insist they’re “protecting” marriage. I say that we should draft our own marriage amendment that makes marriage the “lifelong, irrevocable, and monogamous union of a man and a woman”. Let’s protect marriage by making divorce illegal and let’s require monogamy. Let’s see how many people vote to REALLY protect marriage.

  • fredo777

    What some of these posters seem to fail to realize is that this isn’t a racial issue; it’s a religious one.

    Most of the persons who voted “yes” on this prop are those that are more religious. Evangelicals (black + otherwise), Catholics, Mormons, + the like.

    Black men only made up 4% of those polled + black women only 6%. Of those, 30% voted no on the prop. Which means, not all blacks are against equal rights for gays, but a lot are. Just as a lot of Latino voters (about 20% of the voters) + white republicans (24% of the voters) are. We’d be better served to stop alienating + finger-pointing, instead making more efforts to incorporate, include, + practice what we preach.

    How many ads + efforts specifically targeted to persons of color were employed by No On 8?

    To go on a tangent, I think that you will find more non-whites growing in their acceptance of gays as they see more of themselves represented in the gay community, gay iconography, etc. As with everyone else, persons of color respond better to something they feel they can relate to on a more personal level.

    If they see the gay community as almost exclusively represented by young, fit white males, they will have a harder time relating to our community + our causes. W

    We need to find + appreciate more commonalities, not more excuses to divide.


    “The only people we can blame are ourselves.” No. 17 · Matt B


    Hey Moesha777 I have another one for you:

    “Not yet clear why Prop. 8, which had been losing in polls, passed. Ted Olsen at Christianity Today thinks Barack Obama, who opposed the measure but not gay marriage, helped:

    But African-American Californians overwhelmingly supported Prop. 8, by a 7-to-3 margin. Black women (who made up 6% of the electorate) were even more supportive, telling exit pollsters they voted for the measure by a 3-to-1 margin.”

    OBAMA ’08

  • fredo777

    Cunt-hill, as long as “people” — + I use the term very loosely– like you speak on behalf of the gay community, non-LGBT blacks will distance themselves from our causes more + more.

    Why is there such a common perception that we have a lot of prejudice within the gay community?

  • Kate

    Ajax, that’s the best idea I’ve heard in a long time. Let’s fund a movement to make hetero marriages truly sanctified! What would the penalty for infidelity be? I vote for stoning.

  • Tony

    Mor(m)ons should be afraid of the coming BOYCOTT! Americablog and others are planning a boycott on:

    1) Utah businesses

    2) Mormon owned and lead companies and corporations

    They are about to be HIT HARD in the wallet.

    Remember, our boycotts of Coors etc. have been highly successful. NO GAY DOLLARS TO BIGOTS!

  • cmh

    btw Doug it wasn’t the “dumb dyke” who took her class to her wedding, it was the stupid hetero parents who organized a field trip to surprise her.. at least get your story right.

  • JJJJ

    I guess African-American communities are just so functional themselves that they feel they can tell others what to do now, lol. (But don’t forget the good news guys. White voters under 29 along with Asians voted greatly in our favor, so there’s good hope for the future).

  • Jim

    I like the idea of boycotting (Tony’s post), but why didn’t John Aravosis (Americablog) come up with this and get it rolling MONTHS ago, when Mormon’s were funding the prop? Could’ve made a POSITIVE difference at that point. I’m surprised John didn’t come up with the idea before, his career has been in politics and activism. On another subject, what’s with the whole “down low” syndrome about? Not to go into possibly-read-as-racist territory, but I wish the down-low folk would just come out in their communities and do a more major job of changing the opinion of “gay” in more minority groups. The face of “gay” really is quite white in the media, it’s HIGH time for that to change!

  • Thelea Draganic

    “Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America[, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state. ”

    This is your real enemy, not African-Americans. They were focusing on Obama and not this issue.

    Don’t trust exit polls taken when many of these same groups taking them may have been angry with African-Americans about Obama. I think they are pitting one group against the other.

  • Will

    Your legal definitions and use of terminology are incorrect. The California Supreme Court looked to the California Constitution in legalizing same sex marriage. It did not look to precedent or common law. It is true that there are legal avenues that may be explored as regards this decision, but they do not lie in judicial precedent.

  • akaison

    The problem with the exit poll is that it also said that Prop 8 was headed toward electoral defeat. How one can then use its crosstabs when the overall numbers were wrong is beyond me. Like I said in another posting here there is also quite clearly an issue of gay Bradley effect here. Why? Because even with the crosstabs on African Americans and Latinos, the Exit Poll said the Prop would fail. In other words, someone in the polls was lying. Clearly it wasn’t the African American or Latino voters. So who?

  • justin

    What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. My spirit is broken.

  • DMC

    Seriously, fuck white gays and their bullshit. Its time for black homosexuals to seperate from this bullshit “gay community” and do it publicly.

  • fredo777

    Does that video show the millions of white voters in support of Prop 8, Cunt-hill?

    I’m just guessing.

  • Oh Charlie

    Here’s what a friend of my wrote:

    lets see, we will give rights to chickens… but not humans….hmmm something dont seem right there!!!
    tell me… is this right????!!! this same law passed in florida and arkansas banning gay couples from adoption, along with single parents… do you honestly believe a child would do better in a group home where he is nothing but a bed number?! are we prepared to prevent single parents from adopting just to make sure “those darn gays” dont get there hands on them??!!!?!?! maybe these are the things you all should have considered before selling your hatred with little yellow signs!
    this is the civil rights movement for our generation! we have to fight! can you be counted on?
    pass this on!

    She speaks the truth, prop 2 (“the chicken rights”) far exceeds those or us that are gay…something is wrong, very wrong

  • Tim Sanders

    The first man and women were created by God and he forbids the disgusting abomination of homosexuality. As times get tougher more and more people will learn to fear God and approval for gay marriage will NEVER happen.

    Instead of burning churches we need to burn the homes of Gay and lesbian people.

  • Tim Sanders

    Actually I’ve changed my mind. Obviously I’m gay or I wouldn’t be here. How can I get a date at this blog? I prefer to bottom first.

  • callmewhitey,callmefaggot

    I don’t give a FUCK if WHITES were the majority of the votes to put us under, the percentage of the Whites who DID vote, were a LOT lower AGAINST US than the percentage of MEXICAN that voted against us (53+%) and the BLACKS (69+%) that voted against us!


    Next time there is a vote, or Money to be doled out to these groups, such as COLLEGE FUNDS / EDUCATION / VOCATIONAL, IMMIGRATION LAWS, or MONEY needed for various causes, ect. US GAYS and OUR SUPPORTERS WILL REMEMBER THIS!!!!


    These REVERSE RACIST, BIGOTED FUCKS sure want our Money and our services (hello Hairdressers,stylists,waiters,ect), but want us to be treated as lower class citizens!

    i think it’s because BLACKS were the LOWEST form of existence on the totem pole for SO LONG, Now THEY have the opportunity to put another class BENEATH THEM.

    Not too long ago, BLACKS and GAYS shared a very special bond, during the depression when being Gay was ILLEGAL, and BLACKS had NO RIGHTS,they actually mingled together in “underground”, “Illegal” bars/nightclubs where they could find strength and solace in one another. They were each others ALLIES which is WHY this SO OFFENSIVE TO US MORE THAN ANY OTHER group of people bagging on us.

    It’s AMAZING what being able to bang some white girls, having some cash in your pocket thanks to selling crack, pimping, and success of a few Rap videos can do to a GROUP OF PEOPLE.


  • Kdogg

    I’m sick of all this bulls*it, when will GLBT wake up. Civil rights weren’t handed to any minority group through elections. We need sit ins at any agency that supports anti-gay proposals, we need marches that disrupt the lives of others like these voters disrupt ours, and we need to not shut up until America leaves us the hell alone!!

  • Bill Perdue

    akaison wonders how we got clobbered in California, Florida and Arizona. Broodingly, he asks “In other words, someone in the polls was ling. Clearly it wasn’t the African American or Latino voters. So who?”

    It was you, akaison, and all the other retarded supporters of a bigot named Obama. You supported him in spite of, or maybe because of his harsh bigotry about same sex marriage. You Democrats helped to derail the movement away from activism and into futile electoral politics which never solve anything. Instead, under Bush, Clinton, baby Bush and now Obama they’re remain a dead end. But this dead end has always has that bus waiting and guess who gets tossed under it. DOMA, DADT, ENDA, the hate crimes bill and now more state DOMA’s. There aren’t many more states to lose in.

    Your cowardly silence, and that of most Democrats about Obama’s open bigotry, including NO on 8 and similar groups in Florida and Arizona, was deafening. It contributed mightily to justifying the bigotry he shares with other superstitious folks, mostly Euro Americans. Obama’s “god’s in the mix” says we’re sinners and it brought the christers scampering out from under their rocks and they kicked the shit out of us.

    Thanks, Democrats. Thanks, akaison. Thanks, crazylove. Thanks, EMB. Now we know who our enemies are, and that they aren’t just Republicans.

  • Bill Perdue

    Kdogg is 100% right. No on 8 refused to take the fight seriously and counted on simpering feel-good ads instead of directly confronting the bigots. They never called for daily demonstrations outside mormon temples, catholic cathedrals, Marriot hotels or the campaign HQ’s of Obama and McCain. Why? They ran a few badly done ads and TV spots on black owned and Latino stations during the last week or so. Why? Labor was totally on our side as were the folks of the NAACP and MALDEF and they squandered that by refusing to mobilize them. They defaulted. They were afraid to fight. That was madness. If you don’t fight you don’t win. No on 8 lost, big time. We all lost, big time.

    Battles like this are just that. They’re battles, not dueling commercials. We lost because No on 8 wouldn’t confront the bigots. That’s because they were tied to the Democrat Party and are incapable of independent organization. They thought getting ‘pushy’ and insisting that Obama and McCain withdraw their bigoted remarks was rude. After all who makes demands on Presidential candidates, it’s unheard of, and it’s just not done by genteel folks.

    They defaulted and that plus “god’s ins the mix” explains Tuesday bitter defeats.

  • fredo777

    82% of white Republicans voted for Prop 8, which means they were the group with the highest percentage of its members voting in favor of the ban.

    Obama did not encourage Republicans to vote that way.

    64% of the 18-24 crowd also voted against Prop 8, which was also heavily in favor of Obama. If he is responsible for the black voters who supported Prop 8, he also gets credit for the young voters who opposed it.

    So, Billiam, the blame for this is not to be placed on Obama or his supporters as a whole.

    After all, hundreds of thousands of black voters were against Prop 8 + we only lost the fight by about a half-million votes. That’s huge. If we were able to reach out to more of the groups — like black evangelicals + white republicans — that were so largely in favor of this passing, as well as having gotten more gay voters in Cali to actually vote, we might have very well won this.

    Hell, even about 22% of those whom IDed themselves as “liberal” voted yes on Prop 8, according to exit polls.

  • Bill Perdue

    Wrong as usual, Freddie.

    82% of white Republicans voted for Prop 8, which means they were the group with the highest percentage of its members voting in favor of the ban.

    When Obama said ‘god’s in the mix’ he validated the prejudices of conservative and liberal bigots, irrespective of national origin, skin color, religion or economic class. Obama’s an equal opportunity political hustler.

    The young voters for Obama are not in regimented cults like the mormons, the boy rapers and or the evangelical right. If the youth vote is unorganized and amorphous, the cult bigots are just the opposite. They voted for Obama in big numbers because the appealed to their bigotry. The AP reported yesterday that that he made big inroads into Karl Rove territory by stridently declaring his opposition to same sex marriage. They’re going to have a big say in Obama’s policy because having elected him, they own him.

    “Hell, even about 22% of those whom IDed themselves as “liberal” voted yes on Prop 8, according to exit polls.” They were liberal bigots, aka, Democrats.

    The black vote was a small part of the overall vote and if a hefty part went against us it was because No on 8 defaulted on engaging minority communities (as they did in 2000) – their efforts were way to little and insultingly too late. But the biggest factor in the huge bigot vote, primarily by EuroAmericans, was hat Obama’s strident bigotry was an open invitation to everyone in California, Florida and Arizona to vote their bigotry.

    Get used to Democrats being called accomplices to the bigoted christer right, because that’s the truth. You’re not our friends; you’re our enemies just like the LCR. You’re trapped in the last closet, the political closet.

  • fredo777

    That is utter nonsense.

    To think that Obama’s personal belief about marriage influenced the entire nation to oppose gay marriage is ridiculous, considering the fact that there have been bans on same-sex marriage for years + we have only recently been made aware of Barack Obama + his views on a large scale.

    One could just as easily argue that we wouldn’t have had as close a loss in Cali. if not for Obama’s + his running mate’s stating that they would vote No on Prop 8. Sounds to me like he just makes a handy scapegoat for your misplaced blame.

  • funguy

    I love how the PRO PROP 8 assholes say it’s about
    “protecting the children” and that they don’t want the “children to be “taught” the gay lifestyle, yet they bring the kids to these rally’s?!?!

    Aren’t the kid’s asking what “Gay” is? , What do you tell them? So isn’t that “educating and exposing” the innocent children to and about the gays?

    The “gays” aren’t going anywhere! We will still be here, we will still get married whether or not the state chooses to call it that, we will still be ALL OVER the Tv, in Music videos, Songs, Books, movies, internet, and they WILL learn about us at the schools, because guess what? GAY KIDS ALSO GO TO SCHOOL.

    Anything i ever learned about sex (at least the good stuff) was from my friends and the kids at school. SO WILL YOUR “INNOCENT” CHILDREN.

    For something so disgusting and unnatural you people sure are worried your kids will find appeal in being queer. Why would they ever go there if it was as unnatural and disgusting as you claim.

    Your kids will be who they are . like it or not..,

    you will also tell them how bad booze and drugs are and they will try that as well. After they see how great it is to be high and drunk, maybe they will rethink all the other things you told them were no good as possibly having something to it!

    Have Fun!

  • Raven

    @Doug: YOu obviously have no grasp of that story. It was the parents of the children who decided to SURPRISE the newlyweds with the field trip. The couple had nothing to do with it.

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