Therapists typically offer their clients clarity, but one guy says he left his third session with a psychoanalyst “really confused.” Why? She told him that gayness was a choice.
“In the meeting I had today, I told my psychoanalyst that being gay wasn’t a choice and that it was most likely genetic,” he wrote. “She looked very surprised when I said that and responded by saying that it was a choice and that the genetic ‘argument’ (if I can call it like that) was the one used by religions. This got me really confused. … I had to ask if she meant a choice or an unconscious choice. She stated that when she talks about choices, it’s always in the unconscious way.”
Related: This is the perfect clapback for the idea that gayness is a ‘choice’
Commenters on the post, as you might expect, were appalled by what this Redditor reported — and not just because the term “unconscious choice” seems like an oxymoron. (Quipped one user: “I was unconscious once. I chose to lie around.”)
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
“I’d be very wary about continuing therapy with someone who thinks sexuality is a choice, subconscious or not,” one wrote.
“Seconded,” another added. “Psychoanalysis is only one form of therapy too, and pretty discredited. I prefer CBT due to its scientific backing.”
“Absolutely this,” one person said in response to the first comment. “Do not go back to this therapist.”
A different commenter wrote: “Don’t be confused. That person is wrong, period. No legitimate medical association considers it a choice either.”
Related: Doctors once considered homosexuality an illness; ‘Cured’ celebrates heroes who proved otherwise
Or, in the words of TIME editor at large Jeffrey Kluger, “None of us choose our genetics or finger length or birth order or ear structure, and none of us choose our sexuality either.”
Across a couple of edits to his original post, the Redditor clarified that his psychoanalyst never tried to “induce the idea that I could become hetero if I wanted to,” but he still said he’d “ask advice from another professional, to at least have a second opinion and then decide if I keep working with the current one.”
Here’s hoping he ends up with an LGBT-friendly therapist!
controversial2019
Are we sure the therapist meant the sexuality side of being gay is a choice OR did they mean the sexual side of being gay is a choice?
Of course we don’t choose for our sexuality to be gay in the same way straights don’t choose to be straights, and we don’t choose to be attracted to ass over abs or blond over brunette.
We do of course choose to act on our sexuality (and why shouldn’t we, it’s awesome!). Much like straights choose to act and monks choose not to act. Being a sexual gay is a choice. Maybe the therapist meant that?
Who knows. Either way, Reddit? I’ll take with a pinch of salt.
Cam
No surprise, the account that defends Republicans and bigots is on here defending a therapist who is pushing a bigoted discredited theory that choice has anything to do with sexuality.
Ronbo
I know that when I hear something that is so very personally intense and emotionally upsetting, I don’t always think clearly or accurately. I suggest that the analyst learn to pay attention to this common phenomenon and play back the recorded conversation with the patient. Otherwise, the APA should step in to have the licensee revoked. To be a professional, one has to act professionally.
kevininbuffalo
Color me skeptical about this story…but if it’s true find another therapist.
barryaksarben
so he thought he was going to therapy but actually went back in time to the 50s
Donston
I also don’t know if I entirely buy this story. But therapists have said sillier things to people. I will say that we need to evolve past the born this way and genetic stuff. I know some feel as if moving on from that suddenly gives people a right to be anti-gay or to embrace internalized homophobia. But we should all know by now that everyone has their own thing going on and for different reasons. And yes, your sexual arousal, attractions, comfort are not choices. But ideally, who you sexually engage with, what identities you embrace, what you let people know, who you have relationships and commitment towards- these are choices. And the sexual, romantic, emotional, relationship spectrum is wide and diverse and all that jazz. So, while genetics probably come into play for most, we do need to have more complicated discussions about gender, sexuality and orientation and stop looking for shorthand, all encompassing explanations. However, if legit, the psychoanalyst sounds like a dip-shit.
JromeGervais09
You are very conflicted with your own homophobia. You want an out no matter what decision you personally come out with in the end. I don’t agree with your convoluted logic. You need a therapist.
Donston
Already been to therapy. I’m not looking for an “out”. I’m happily married to someone of my sex. I don’t contend with internalized homophobia. And I’m not really inherently homosexual, at least not any longer.
Trying to come up with some shorthand answer for why everyone is the way they are buffs out so much nuance and individualism. We need to accept that everyone is different for different reasons. Everyone has their own dimensions, struggles, reasons, journeys. Accepting this is the only way to evolve past homophobia, internalized homophobia, shame, dishonesty, and identity and sexual politics. Whittling everyone’s gender, sexual, orientation make-up down to mere genetics is idiotic and problematic. We should all know better at this point.
What the psychoanalyst said was irresponsible though.
Chrisk
Wait a minute. Doesn’t queerty constantly promote Nico torte..what’s his face and his gender fluid they/them way of being and all?
I’m sure Donston will be here any minute to clear this up though.
Edit… Woops I was 5 minutes too late. Lol
Donston
Gotchu.
I do think Queerty is contradictory as hell. Almost none of these “writers” have any real perspective or knowledge. They (as well as most “queer media”) just publish whatever to get clicks and to try to please everyone.
WashDrySpin
Reddit…so sad Queerty
Dick Mayhem
Agreed. This is just flopping content onto the page with little or no further investigation or insight. I call this Buzzfeeding.
ingyaom
Psychoanalysis? Really? Is that still a thing?
carlton
Could we at least get the grammar correct? If being gay WERE not was?
Sam6969
According to psychoanalysis, sexual orientation is an unconscious choice made during childhood and teenage years. This choice is basically our response to good and bad experiences with our environment, relationship to our parents and friends, as well as the identification process to important people in our lives. It is also based on the culture and the kind of society we live in. It has never been scientificallly proved (nor the biological origin).
The word “choice” may feel abusive. Actually, I was shocked the first time I heard of that. I prefer the expression: “unconscious response”.
Josh447
I don’t think your theory holds water. Left handed people cannot be determined from biology either. I choose to believe on the side of generics rather than shoot in the dark.
Josh447
Genetics…
Dick Mayhem
Thanks for the clarification about the psychoanalytic meaning of “choice” in this situation. Freud was weirdly determinate in many ways.
Donston
Orientation is not as simple as being left-handed. That’s a silly comparison. But I wouldn’t expect anything different from Joshy.
Genetics and physiology clearly clearly have something to do with a lot of people’s orientation and sense of gender. But genetics and physiology alone can’t explain fluidity or paraphiliacs or these “lesbians” who watch a lot of gay porn or guys who are more easily aroused by women but prefer persistent same-sex passions, affections, romantic attention. We haven’t even defined what sexual orientation is. Is it arousal, desire, pleasure, behaviors, preferences?
There’s clearly a lot of different things going on with different people and different reasons why folks are the way they are. We shouldn’t be dismissive towards genetics and physiology. But it’s also not something to depend on. All we can do is promote honesty, freedom, self-understanding and people living the lives they truly want to live.
Cam
@Donston
Except studies have shown the possibility of a biological factor. And you keep making statements, but show no proof.
A biological factor makes homophobia less defensible for bigots. i.e. somebody was born this way, much harder to attack than somebody who decided to do something. That is widely accepted. If you disagree, feel free to post anything supporting that.
Heywood Jablowme
Donston isn’t denying a “biological factor.” He says there IS a biological factor.
“A biological factor makes homophobia less defensible for bigots. i.e. somebody was born this way, much harder to attack than somebody who decided to do something.” Black people, for instance, might be surprised to hear this. All white racists believe blacks are “born that way.”
Cam
@Heywood Jablowme
Yes, and the laws changed earlier to defend race, whereas for a few decades more bigots kept screaming that LGBTQ people were making a choice and used that as an argument against legal protections.
vinnieboiblue
Being gay is not a choice. One is born this way. Society has made people to despise deviant homosexuality to the point where it was called a mental illness. But that too has been proven wrong many times. The only choice we make is whether we are going be honest and open about being gay or remaining to live in the closet( a lifelong lie). Psychologists are trained to believe this lie of homosexuality being a sickness. We as humans are created sexual. Man and Woman were created to create another life. Just as there are many different nationalities, there are just as many different sexual identities.
Donston
Psychologists haven’t seen homosexuality as a mental illness for decades. However, mental health struggles are more common among “queers”, as are sexual traumas. While there is still scant evidence that people are born with sexualities despite the many years of research. There is however a decent amount of evidence that sexuality develops throughout your youth. The research on sexuality continues to be convoluted and contradictory. There are no easy answers. We don’t even have concrete answer for what sexuality is. And why not celebrate choosing same-sex passions, love, emotional investment, commitment?
At this point people just need to move on from trying to use science to justify their sense of self or their lifestyle. Everyone is just too different and has their own experiences, dimensions, motivations and journeys. Instead of constantly focusing on justification and identity, we need to be focused on honesty, mental health, doing what you want to do and not being driven by ego and sociology.
Cam
@Donston
Once again, you keep making declarative statements and yet can’t post anything to prove the point. Please point to a legitimate study that states orientation/attraction is altered while growing up.
That is the old bigoted “It’s just a phase they’re going through” B.S. that they used to tell LGBTQ kids in the 1960s
DuMaurier
Certainly find another therapist since you’re not comfortable with this one, but I’m going to be cautious about judging when we’re just hearing an interpretation of someone’s words that may not have been stated the way it’s coming out, or intended the way it’s being presented. The reference to the therapist saying the client was verbalizing a “religious” position makes me especially wary, since it’s anti-gay religionists who say sexuality is chosen, as a rule. I just have a feeling the actual message was likely more nuanced than the way it was understood.
winemaker
Is this so called ‘therapist’ behind the times, like by many years. Being gay or straight is determined before birth and is a medical fact and has been proven like you’re either blonde, brunette, etc. It’s not a ‘choice’ or so called ‘lifestyle’. If it was, why would anyone ‘choose’ a ‘lifestyle’ that opened them to constant harassment, ridicule, discrimination in both housing and employment and made them the target of attack and death threats?
controversial2019
I think you are mistaken here.
Scientists have not yet discussed the “gay gene” within a body and therefore it is not a “proven medical fact”.
controversial2019
*discovered not discussed (it has been discussed – has not been discovered)
Cam
@ontroversial2019
The choice theory has been discredited and is now an argument used by bigots. No surprise you’re defending it.
Donston
My theory is that there are indeed aspects of genetics and physiology that make it more likely that orientation or gender expressions will develop a certain way. But even that’s probably not the case for everyone. And as many studies as there have been nothing concrete has been found on the genetic front. It’s apparent that gender, orientation, lifestyle, preferences are an individual by individual thing. It’s too varied for it to be one answer for everyone. The more we keep leaning strictly on genetics the easier it is to be homophobic. And I think a lot of folks don’t get that. If orientation is all about genetics and physiology then it’s actually easier to sell homophobia, homo shame, anti gay perspectives. That’s why accepting that sexuality is more than just about sex, accepting that everyone is different and for different reasons, accepting how varied pleasure, passions, emotions, love, motivations, psyches are is is so important. Telling everyone to lean entirely on genetics and identity actually leads to greater homophobia, manipulation, internalized homophobia and shame. It seems folks still don’t get that.
Josh447
Therapists are a shot in the dark prospect seeing as though their ability to cure patients is statistically around a paltry 50%. That’s a horrible roll of the dice. But if you find a good one, it’s like gold in your pocket.
dhmonarch89
He should report her- not sure if he’s American, but if he is, I guess this would be under the American Psychiatric Association.
Donston
Most psychologists don’t strictly adhere to the genetic/born this way stuff. There is nothing to report, because there is no consensus among doctors and psychologists. They are as all over the place when it comes to gender, sexuality and orientation theory as “regular” people. Once again, this is why I preach individualism, self-understanding, mental health and comprehending the gender, romantic, sexual, emotional, commitment spectrum. There aren’t any easy answers available.
Cam
@Donston
Actually here is a link to the American Phycological Association which states that the consensus is that psychologists do not think being LGBTQ is a choice. (Spaces included so the link wouldn’t get screened.
https: //www.apa. org /topics/sexual-orientation
So right there, I have shown that your comment is false. Please feel free to respond to that point.
tikijazz
Even if—and that’s a big if—my orientation is a choice, it’s MY choice on how I identify and live my truth. Don’t like my choice? The door’s thataway.
Donston
H
Kevan1
Amen!
radiooutmike
The only “choice” you get when you’re LGBTQ+ is whether you choose to accept yourself fully.