As president of Focus on the Family, one of the largest religious right groups in the country, Jim Daly should be rallying his troops against the lavender menace to religious liberty. But Daly seems to be infected with some kind of truth virus that keeps erupting at inopportune times, like a particularly embarrassing cold sore. He keeps blurting out that the right-wing’s battle against marriage equality is a lost cause—a good analysis politically, but not a smart motivational move.
Daly first found himself afflicted with a sudden outbreak of truthfulness last month. In an interview with a Christian magazine, he rightfully acknowledged that the demographics doom the antigay marriage cause. “We’re losing on that one, especially among the 20- and 30-somethings: 65 to 70 percent of them favor same-sex marriage,” Daly said. “I don’t know if that’s going to change with a little more age—demographers would say probably not. We’ve probably lost that. I don’t want to be extremist here, but I think we need to start calculating where we are in the culture.”
Of course, the last thing the president of Focus on the Family should not want to be is extremist, and Daly soon found himself backpedaling. Two days after that interview appeared, Daly wrote in a column that “I am not waving a white flag.” (No, it’s just an extra large hankie.) And he proceeded in another column to justify the cause against marriage equality on the basis of “the simple but profound reason that it violates and contradicts the sacred text of the Bible.”
Okay, damage control done. Then, earlier this month, Daly couldn’t help himself. In an interview with the Colorado Springs Independent, an alternative newspaper (!), Daly revisited the comments that got him in hot water in the first place. “What I was trying to say in that interview, when the question was asked about the younger generation, is you can’t deny the stats,” he said. “So when you’re looking at that and they’re saying 65 to 70 percent of those under 40 or 35 — I can’t remember exactly — support same-sex marriage, if that does not change within that community as they become 50 and 60, yeah it’s over.”
Perhaps just as bad, Daly acknowledged that heterosexuals haven’t exactly been great custodians of the marriage institution, a point brought home to him by—gasp!—gay people. “When I was talking to two or three gay activists, it’s a fair comment … ‘You guys haven’t done so well with marriage — why not give us a try?’ And it’s true.” Of course, Daly’s solution is to have Christians become better “models” of marriage.
But could it also be that just some small part of him recognizes that marriage equality may not be the end of the world?
H/t to Zack Ford at ThinkProgress.
Queers need to stop trying to fit acceptance of homosexuality into the text of the Bible. Its like the astronomers who came before Galileo. They tried to make their observations of the night sky fit into the official model of the Solar system with the earth at its sacred spot in the center. Galileo was brave enough to stand up to the church and say that the Sun was the center and he died in house arrest for it.
Its time to cut the Gordian knot. Homosexuality is not accepted in the bible but that doesn’t matter as the bible is a text of MYTHS with no relevance to the modern world. It is a false collection of folk tales. The mere fact that people have clung to it for 2,000 does not make it correct anymore than the astronomers before Galileo were correct about the Earth at the center of the Solar System.
Every discussion about the Bible and homosexuality should begin at “The Bible is an interesting historical text, but just like the ancient stories of Zeus, Mithra, Isis, Osiris, Ahura Mazda, it is FALSE.
@Mark: Likewise, it’s time queers stop letting religious fundamentalists get away with “quoting” anything from the Bible that SOUNDS like it’s anti-gay. There isn’t a single word in the Bible that condemns homosexuality. It’s NOT there. Period.
The book that these nutcases keep quoting is NOT “The Bible”. It is a TRANSLATION of the Bible. The Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality. Every single mention of gay sex in the book is an improper translation of the source material from its original Aramaic or Ancient Greek.
As a matter of fact, there is even one chapter of the New Testament that might translate as Jesus fully supporting a loving same-sex relationship. The difficulty is that the original Greek term used is particularly vague.
However, all the other “abomination” passages are quite clear in NOT using actual terms for “gay” in their original iteration. They are all mistranslations of terms for other types of sexual behaviour (notably for “ritual” sexual acts). Does anyone really think the Greeks did not have a term for gay sex? they had MANY terms for it… and not one of those is in use in the original Greek texts of the New Testament.
And of course, then there is Leviticus… but if you had bacon for breakfast at any point in the last year, well, you’re a huge hypocrite if you try and use THAT source to demonize gays. You can’t use one “abomination” and gloss over the others (cutting hair, eating shellfish and pork, mixing fabrics, growing different crops side by side, etc… ALL of them “abominations”).
It is HIGH time the LGBT community fought back against the misuse of the Bible as a weapon against us.
The bible isn’t a book, per se; it’s a heavily curated *library* of books from various genres, a collection that’s gone through countless edited versions and retranslations of translations.
The pick-‘n-choose quotations that pass as a unified theology are like an attempt to assemble a radio from items in your refrigerator!
THESE ARE ALL ACTUAL BIBLE VERSES (well, the first part anyway):
______”Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (1 Corinthians 16:20)
Especially Catholic Priests when greeting Altar Boys.
______”Women should remain silent in the churches.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Yeah, because men are so much more rational when it comes to expounding on superstitious nonsense.
______”Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.” (Leviticus 18:22)
I don’t…I lie with a man as one lies with a man. Try it sometime. Oooo, baby!! That’s delectable.
______”Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.” (Leviticus 19:19)
We are all Doomed!!!!
______”If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Wow! A hefty fine and a shotgun wedding for rape. What kind psychopaths wrote this holy crap? …Oh, I’m sorry, “uneducated straight men” — of course. The reason why those same poisonous fairytales persist today across the globe. Go figure!
______”Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.” (Genesis 9:6)
Watch out war-mongers — it’s not good for the “image“. Last time I looked in the mirror, God looked like he was getting fat. I need to go on a diet.
______”Sell your possessions and give to the poor.” (Luke 12:33)
You hear that Republicans, and especially Pat Robertson; Dr. James C. Dobson (from Focus on the Phony), and all of you other sinfully rich bitches? Cough it up, Paris and Britney! Now!!!
______”Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work.” (Exodus 20:9-10)
So close down all of those heathen hospitals; immoral police precincts and blasphemous fire departments on Sunday immediately you “disrespecting the Sabbath Day” sinners!
_____”If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head.” (1 Corinthians 11:6-7)
Wow! That must be confusing to Orthodox Jewish people and cowboys — but understandable for nuns.
______”If a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him.” (1 Corinthians 11:14)
Uh…I wonder if Jesus read this one? Maybe his hair just looks longer in those pictures. And what about Samson? In the Old Testament, it was a sin to cut your hair. I’m confused.
______”If you are married — do not seek a divorce.” (1 Corinthians 7:27)
John McCain, shame on you! Well, actually fifty percent of you other formerly married heterosexuals out there too — shame on all of you! Yes, you’re a testament to the sanctity of marriage everywhere. Carry on!
______”Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” (Matthew 5:42)
Hmmmm…the US Treasury‘s bailout of Wall Street?
______”Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.” (Proverbs 31:6-7)
Ok, let me get this right. That’s Budweiser to nursing homes and Chardonnay for the rest of us. Works for me!
______”Do not put tattoo marks on yourselves.” (Leviticus 19:28)
Ouch! Again, millions are doomed! :
______”A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.” (Deuteronomy 22:4-5)
Well, considering how everybody wore dresses back in the day when this was written, I am confused again. Are bathrobes ok?:
______”I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.” (1 Timothy 2:8-9)
All of the Fundies; the hair saloons, Tivol’s, and Cher won’t like this one.
______”Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.” (1 Peter 2:18)
This used to be the motto for KKK. But I think most people today believe that it should only apply to the GLBT community in the modern age — seeing how America is more civilized nowadays.
______”As the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” (Ephesians 5:24)
This one is not too popular with N.O.W. (National Organization for Women). I wonder why?
Well, there you have it. The Bible is the “literal” word of God. The above are just a few examples of those asinine tidbits. It is amazing that the misogynistic, racist, homophobic, misanthropic, chauvinistic, tribalistic, fashion police who concocted that odious Bronze Age alternative to Miss Manners still have fans. Will wonders never cease? It’s a anachronistic testimony to the persistence of ignorance. Sure there are a few good pearls of wisdom (although women can’t wear them), but, in reality, the unHoly Bible is truly in dire need of a “do over“.
~ B.Evans 2008
robert in NYC
Hmmm, last time I checked both old and new testaments, there was NO mention of civil marriage. It didn’t exist when that book of fables was written. It is totally different from the religious model and if right wingers can’t disinguish the two, then it doesn’t say much about their devolved brains. Pathetic! They actually have NO valid argument to oppose it, not even the biblical texts are sufficient.
When someone quotes Paul’s letters to the Corinthians, Ephesians, etc., at you, it’s helpful to remind them that you are *not* Ephesian or Corinthian, and thus those instructions don’t apply to you!
[I have actually done this several times]
Is that a pic of Chaz Bono???
There’s a passage from the Gospel of Mark which seems to have been featured in the original manuscript but edited out (though its validity is questioned) in which Jesus himself engaged in homosexual conduct. The following should go between Mark 10:34 and 35:
And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me.’ But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tomb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.
This is one of just two surviving passages from what is known as The Secret Gospel of Mark.
robert in NYC
Riker, I wonder if the youth sang…”sweet mystery of life now that I’ve found you” after spending the night with Jesus?
Actually, the verse you quoted and countless others are sealed in the Vatican Library away from the public for fear that publication could spin christianity on its head. If the Vatican has nothing to hide, then why not allow the public to read them? Many international biblical scholars have tried to get access, but have been denied.
@robert in NYC: I don’t think Secret Mark still survives. The only known reference to it was written in the back pages of a book and photographed, and those pages have been lost. As such, their authenticity is in question. However, if mainstream Christians can use faith to ignore a lack of evidence, then I can choose to believe that the account is valid and Jesus had some hot gay sex with Lazarus (who was raised from the dead in Bethany according to John chapter 11 and was said to be the “disciple whom Jesus loved”).
That is a pic of a diesel dike just out of church on her way to a phone booth for a super hero leather transformation then she’s off to round up the biker gang for a pussy ride through Petunia Park.
@MikeE: Who gives a rat’s ass anyway what the Bible does or doesn’t contain in it’s passages? Like wise the Talmud or the Q’ran. We are a secular nation, we have freedom of religion which means we also have freedom from religion. I gave it all up for Lent decades ago. For those who want to throw religion in my face I tell them if you want to live in a Theocracy move to Iran.
Pete n SFO
back to Mark @ the #1 Comment…
Absolutely correct; every reference to the bible ought to be immediately dismissed by any interviewer. A private religion has nothing to do with civil law. Period.
christopher di spirito
Fuck the Bible. I happen to know for an abject fact that the Flying Spaghetti Monster says with complete moral authority that gays and lesbians must be allowed to marry. This is the only authority I need in my life. As for the Bible, use it to stoke fires in the fireplace.
@christopher di spirito: RAmen.
I have a funny feeling that Dobson purposefully placed Jim in his position knowing that Jim would bring a slow shift in Focus’s interaction with the culture’s acceptance of gays. With Jim, Dobson can still maintain his homophobic profile while at the same time paving the way for his financial empire to continue profiting by slowly changing with the times and the facts of what the bible actually says regarding the so-called anti-gay passages. That way, it looks as if Dobson held to his “biblical” homophobia til his very end- a false advertisement of “faith”. Dobson is merely playing his cards. Think about it, if Dobson’s organization held to the now old SBC ( Southern Baptist Convention) edict of white power, they’d be out of business today. The same will be true with LGBT issues.
Right on. I knew right from wrong by the time I was 4. Some people just never figured it out hence they are still turning pages in the Bible because their mind isn’t trusting of itself. Its called messed up.
This psycho book is responsible for most if not all the turmoil and wars in the world.
We have great minds, we need to keep them as clean as possible. Going by this fairy tale book is not the answer. It is the most unnatural spiritual text on earth. But then to emulate nature like the pagans, well there’s the answer why.
Because the bible has been misused and misapplied dosent mean the bible isn’t relavent. The bible recounts history and shows how god interacted with sinful humans taking into account the culture of their time. It’s just a shame that many religions have used this book to further their own agenda and prejudices.
That’s the basic problem. God no more “interacted” with humans then, as God does now, which is no more than Pat Robertson saying god created aids to torture gays. We are a free will race. God does not intervene in anything. He created our souls, that’s it, we’re on our own. The Bible is nothing more than a collection of man made interpretations cited with “God” as it’s source making it a huge male ego trip to push an agenda. “God” no more created Adam and Eve than “he” destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah, all Pat Robertson style lies. Biggest hoax ever played on the human race.
Do u believe God is real? Do u believe demons are real? Do u believe people can become possessed by demons or that people can welcome in demonic activity like through playing the ouiji board? I do see ur point but I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the bible. There’s a lot to learn about God’s loving nature and his hope for all of us. We as humans weren’t mention to die, get sick, or any of that stuff. HE made Earth with all if it’s majesty for us. It’s our home. However Satan and his demons are doing everything they can to counter act that. I know it all sounds like a folk tale but it’s just as real as the demonic power some have had the misfortune of experiencing.
All humans possess satanic demonic qualities and they possess godly kind and loving qualities, and spirits are the same way. It’s a big pool of neutral energy called God, we scoop it up and name it satanic or otherwise. Pure and simple, there is no satanic being with minions that aren’t any different than dudes with brass knuckles and crooked noses. The Hollywood factor the Bible projects is far more fearful than the reality of it. Yes there are spirit forces beyond the physical with the same options, but we are much more powerful in physicality than most of them. Staying in conflict is well orchestrated ….. by our own minds. Putting it on some satanic force is removing responsibility from the self, which is giving away power. The idea is to get powerful, not give it away to woowoo sources we have no visceral concept of. That is bad manic. God is just good ol energy, not to be confused with good or evil.
I realize that as a Christian, the bible is what I use to explain my belief. Just out of curiosity, what do u use to explain ur’s? Is there scientific evidence to help support ur point? I’d be interested in learning about how u came to ur conclusions.
God does not exist. How can people believe God exists when the vast majority of all species have died out. Dinosaurs, forests teeming with life, and even our own species prior to Christ faced periods of impeding extinction. Our planet will fall to pieces in about 4 billion years when the sun implodes. And the Earth has existed for over a billion years not just 6,000 years.
Look at all of the suffering on Earth-the Holocaust, war, slavery, rape, discrimination, famine, poverty, violence, disease. If God is watching and is all powerful, than why hasn’t he/she/it stepped in to put an end to it. If God exists then he is an a$$hole.
The religious among us are paranoid freaks. No one is watching you or judging you beyond other living creatures you may encounter on Earth. Even if a powerful creator does exist it obviously cares nothing about what happens to living things on this planet.
robert in NYC
Laury, the answer you’ll get from some believers is that the reason why God didn’t prevent the holocaust and all of the evil events in the world, is that he gave humans a free will whatever that means. They even have ways of conveniently explaining away the 6,000 years of the planet’s existence when they say…nobody knows how long a year is. Pathetic!
@Mark: You need to read your bible bro. Homosexuality is ABSOLUTELY acceptable in the Bible, and there is much evidence to back that up. Don’t allow some anti-gay jerks to determine what is or is not “acceptable” in a book that I’m willing to guarantee you never bothered to read yourself.
@Jonah’s Whale: The only thing you have proven is you can take any verse out of its original context and make it mean whatever the hell you want it too. I don’t think any rational Christian will ever disagree with that premise.
@gregger: I hate to break this to you, but when 80% of the country claims to be religion and allows religion to influence their vote, you are worse off as a devout atheist than you are as a gay male.
christopher di spirito
My view is, humans invented “God” because they are afraid of death. Death is scary and I get that.
So, the fable goes, if you’re a good boy or girl, and play nice in this life, the reward is eternal life sitting next to this uber-Father figure, fetching him beer, drawing his bath, and rubbing his feet.
It makes about as much sense as praying to the God of Rain in a drought so you have ample water for your crops.
Hello? The world isn’t flat, Christians. It’s round and there is no such thing as eternal life.
Robert in NYC
Jonah’s Whale, you are too funny!
galefan2004, since the right wing religious nutjobs believe in the scripture, all of it, I wonder what they’re response would be if you asked them if killing one’s wife for adultery is acceptable? I bet you anything they’d dismiss it. They deliberately select this and that to suit their own agenda but ignore references that to any sane person would be laughable and in some cases abhorrent to modern 21st century living.
I inherited a bible years ago, King James version. I hollowed it out and keep my pot in in it.
If Christians are allowed exemptions from American civil laws, I have a likewise profoundly deep and abiding belief I should be exempt from their ancient Semitic laws.
As usual, accommodation is something Christians think they’re uniquely entitled to.
Honestly, as a Christian myself I still have doubts about a lot of things there’s no question about that. I have unanswered questions and methodologies that I have a hard time accepting. For example it’s hard for me to accept the fact that Jesus’s blood had to be poured for our salvation. I don’t see why such a gruesome approach was required. In my mind it just dosent compute. But in the same respect if that was God’s way of conforming to his own laws of justice then God giving us his son for the sake of humanity was extremely loving on his part. And that’s the fact that I take comfort in despite my doubts.
I’ve also wondered about why God seems slow or even silent ( from my humanly perspective) about addressing the worlds problems. Even faithful biblical examples expressed these same sentiments and their angst is recorded in scripture. I look at the suffering of ” man dominating man to it’s injury” as scripture puts it, and I too think that it would be easier for all of us if God were to step in and fix it now. In my mind, the way I see it, that’s what I would do. But once again I have to see things from his perspective. And I also have to remember that Satan is working extra hard to make God out to be a liar and heartless. He did it in the Garden of Eden when he lied to Eve and I do believe he’s doing it now – to us. At least he’s trying to. The bible says that this world is “lying in the power if the wicked one” who is Satan. This hectic reality of life on this side of perfection is Satan’s doing, not God’s. God is merely allowing Satan to prove his guilt. We in the midst of it all have to prove who’s side we’re on, Satan’s or God’s. And we do that by the way we live r life today going forward. So yes, in that since we do have free will. Because soon the bible says’s that Satan and his wicked system will be destroyed along with all of those humans who followed him. 1 cor6:9,10 shows the type of people that will not inherit God’s kingdom ( homosexuals is not a part of that list, as biased translations would have u believe).
Even if one dosent believe the bible is divinely inspired, it’s just a great book to read. Lots of interesting stories and events are recorded there. For example, I like the book of Job. Reading the interaction between him and his companions is a very intriguing read. As his companions try to ascertain why Job is suffering, it reminds me of the posts here on this forum. If u have ur own copy of the bible, read that book tonight before u sleep. It’s worth it, I think.
@galefan2004. Where in the world did u get the notion the Bible absolutely supports homosexuality. You make it sound like there is a very clear passage or a celebrated gay marriage.
Like you, things like the blood of Christ saving us from our sins or Jesus died so that we can be saved. I mean, get real. Pure bunk. You must understand that when the Bible was laid down by Constantine there was so much anxiety with so many religions Afoot, it was just time to unite, by force, ONE religion, which is what the word Catholicism means. So the Bible was about controlling an out of control religious freak out. There were so many factions fighting, pagans jews christians that sometthing had to.be done. It was not a natural flow. So you have many many mistakes. Thd biggest one was taking Jesus and shoving him into a Judeo/Christian model of which be did not elect. He was ripped off. So right from there you have this awesome guy quelled inthe stench of a religious war culminating in the Bible. Perfect example. “God gave his only begotten son to the world” The truth is “God gave it to (the world) his only begotten son”. To redeem. But the Bible so.twisted EVERYTHING that it’s still blind blinding blind. Just drop what isn’t rational and use other texts to help. You’ll get itbfigured out if you really want to.
@Me: Elaine Pagels has written some great books about the “gospels” that didn’t make it into the official versions of the Bible. They’re a good place to start
There’s no geological proof that a worldwide flood ever occurred. Even most bible literalists have to resort to metaphors & backpedalling to explain that.
Even many Orthodox Jews take the Genesis story of the creation as a metaphor, too.
Logic > Religion
“Perfect example. “God gave his only begotten son to the world” The truth is “God gave it to (the world) his only begotten son”. To redeem.”
This is intersting, I’ve never heard of this before. I tried to Google what you said to see if there was a discussion about this somewhere and I couldn’t find anything. Is there a source where I can explore what you present in more detail? Thanks!
Sure there is. It is where I get most if not all my spiritual knowledge, from Jesus himself as author scribed by Helen Schuckman in a book called A Course inMiracles. Here is a short video with some quotes. The first 90 pages of the text talks about the real meaning of the crucifixion and many other things get straitened out. This is the book Jesus authored in1978, and it doesn’t really matter if you believe it’s him, but most come to that conclusion. Its just much too profound not to at least entertain it as “he” speaks in first person pretty much through the entire 1200 page manuscript. I don’t think there is another spiritual book on the planet this long written by one person. I suggest you turn the sound down and look at the script. There is alot you can google if you want to read The Course material.
@me…very interesting comments….r u in the 3rd grade?
Do these preachy people even *read* their Bible? Jesus had tough words for the adulterous gal: Lemme translate from KoineGreek into today’s vernacular: Don’t be no ho! Quit that, fer realz, now. Buh-bye!
The constant harping on the evils of the moho-secks saves them from having to focus on their own sins & all the plywood they have in their own eyes which they are not plucking out.
If Jesus existed, he was probably gay himself. He was this bohemian dude who walked around the desert with long hair, in GOWNS for crying out loud, with a bunch of dudes he loved and liked to kiss a lot. What does that sound like to you? A Biblical age gay bar, that’s what.
No. 10 · Riker, “@robert in NYC: I don’t think Secret Mark still survives.”
You might want to read http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_miss.htm for a discussion. Following the links will get you to descriptions of early Christian practices involving ritual nudity, and that there were supposedly three versions of “Mark”, one for the general public (the one in the Bible), a more “spiritual” one that includes the thing about the naked kid with a linen cloth, and a forgery produced by Carpocratians, an early Christian sect with a communist bent of sharing everything, including each other’s spouses.
Naturally, our current crop of fire and brimstone Christians have a very negative reaction to the mere mention of it.
@B: thanks for the links re: Mark. I look forward to delving in. Lots better than all that Dan Brown stuff I still see people reading on the bus.
@Everyone: sorry about the BOLD mess above. It was a eyesore, I know.
No. 23 · Laury wrote, “Our planet will fall to pieces in about 4 billion years when the sun implodes.”
Not exactly. In about a billion years the sun will brighten enough that the oceans will boil. Then, in about 5 billion years, the sun will turn into a red giant, expanding to a size about that of the earth’s current orbit. But, the sun will have lost over 30% of its mass. A loss of mass tends to increase the radius of the earth’s orbit, but other effects may tend to pull the earth’s orbit inward.
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=908 has some of the details, although recent results suggest a different fate for the earth: a simulation performed in 2008 indicates that the earth will actually be engulfed by the sun due to a combination of tidal forces and drag due to the lower chromosphere. Details are at http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2966.2008.13022.x/abstract;jsessionid=BDB3F8069E8E81ACCF07AC4761D78F2D.d01t03 (you can only get the abstract for free).
Regardless, don’t worry about October 2011 or some time in 2012 (unless you are a film critic worried about the re-release of what you might think is a bad movie, and the possibility of having to watch it again).
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Thank u for sharing. I will look at the resources u provided.
I want to give you a perspective to ponder as you said you were confused about “Jesus dying for our sins”, that it didn’t “compute”. Good for you because your innate rational thinking gave you good direction.
The idea that God would send his “Son” to pay for man’s sin of eating the Apple is so fundamentally skewed it is borderline psychotic. If man committed the sin, why would this strange conflict-inducing “god” sacrifice HIS “only” son for a slaughter so vicious, it would rock the world in pain for centuries to come? What “father” would carefully plan sending his only son into the woods to be eaten by wolves? Doesn’t happen.
This proposed evil act keeps people tied up in trauma, which keeps people tied into sadness. What do Christians do when they think of the crucifixion? They get sad. That is a demonic dominator out for suppress through pain and fear, a false evil god, not the God of pure love, which Jesus attests to in ACIM. We should always be tied into happiness, not confusing archetypes. THAT is hell. Conflict is hell. This gay culture war, the suppression of blacks and women etc all are Biblical based conflicts meant to control people through fear. When we see these dramas as a negative game, a harmful ploy to rise above, then we find peace. It’s but a silly game to be put away for loftier pursuits, like our true magnificence. “Be ye as little children” simply means; be without conflict and you will be happy, as is a child. Jesus did not elect to incarnate here to get slaughtered to “pay for our sins”. He had a childlike view and lived without fear. Such a plan that would upset his brothers and sisters would have been completely opposite of his acclaimed nature.
What he did see was that The Law of Moses and it’s definitions and perceptions of their psychotic oddball “God” was inherently flawed. He therefore came to fulfill The LAW of the TRUE God that knows only unconditional love; not to fulfill The Mosaic Law of a “local” pagan Zeus-like “knock-off” God of threat hell and war. That “story” is completely false and alien to what Jesus taught. If he would have been spawned from a warlike God, he too would have been warlike, a truly insane thought. We see men doing these psychotic things as always, but never God, except when man takes God’s name and adds his own personality traits to it. That’s a big clue as to the origin of the Biblical God.
Hence Jesus was not murdered to “save” anyone from some mythical “sin”, he was murdered because the truth of God’s true nature was the total opposite of what was being preached via the Torah to control people’s emotions for financial and spiritual gain. The Truth according to Jesus would have completely destroyed Judaism, which meant loss of DOLLARS i.e. Bankruptcy and spiritual control. The Sanhedrin would have been out of a well paying “job”. Jesus wasn’t murdered out of a need for payment for man’s “sins”. He was murdered because he was a direct threat to religious financial/spiritual domination of which the “believers” were not about to relinquish control. To anyone.
Jesus and his TRUE God are cut from the same cloth, as is perfectly stated in “I and my Father are ONE”. Neither would sooner wipe out an entire city for treating strangers badly (Sodom and Gomorrah), than you’d push your grandmother whom you dearly loved, out in front of a racing bus. Jesus straightens this ALL out in the first few chapters of A Course in Miracles. He finally got his own “gospel” because, it’s time for it. And there is no better time than “the now”.
As one grows in knowledge and accurate truth(s), one finds that as with corrupted government, religion so follows. It is so unfortunate that it all boils down to dollars through selling seats to heaven through threats and fear, but that’s the bottom line. 10% of everyone’s income is some serious cash flow. To this the Vatican can attest; it is the richest corporation in the world. The biggest problem is, it doesn’t work as it keeps humans tied to conflict and controversy through war and cultural/religious conflict, all bogus predatory actions i.e. the controversy over gay sex, keeping them tied to this world, of which they stay until they figure out the game and relinquish it internally for what Jesus taught most magnanimously, unconditional love.
If you say to yourself “I and my Father (love) are one” you are not only telling “the truth”, but over time you will begin to realize, you ARE THE TRUTH itself. This is why Jesus tells us, “of these things I do, you shall do them and more”. He is trying to get through to us our true nature called unconditional love, which is completely opposite from what we might “think” with fickle ever changing human minds; a thing we incarnate into, but a thing that we are not.
So study on, Me. Use your common sense at all times. Becoming unconfused, challenging and DROPPING all that is irrational, is the process of waking up to our true, rational, loving eternal God self within and without. This is Jesus’s only mission, to wake us up to this one true fact that we are only love as is the God who made our souls, our spark of life, our true selves, and that all else “of this world” including bodies, is frivolous drama to escape from rather than boil within. This shift happens within the mind. You don’t have to “go anywhere”. It is simply a realignment of internal thinking, from fear to love, which is the only “miracle” there is, as stated by our sweet kind dear brother Jesus himself in A Course in Miracles.
When one truly gets this, ALL books and “isms” can be put aside, a sort of carefully planned obsolescence, for the need for them will be no more.
I’m listening to you and really trying to understand where you’re coming from. So are there parts of the Bible that you agree with such as the ” I and the Father are one” and Jesus saying that we should be “chid-like” and then there are other parts (like the Law of Moses) that you’re able to see through and disagree with?
It is my understanding that we were created not by accident, but by love, God’s unconditional love. How do you feel about this? It is also my understanding that sickness, death, violence, hatred, and all of the miseries that we now experience where not origninally intended with our creation.
If unconditional love is our ultimate goal whom do we model for an example of how such love is to be demonstrated? What about morality? On what does one base that? These are just questions that i naturally would have. I realize that not all cultures and peoples believe or have even heard of Jesus and have their own beliefs and religious dieties to examplify. And despite this, there exists a commonlality, an understanding if you will, of what injustice and hate looks like. And our disdain towards it. Perhaps, minus the details, there is an internal trait in all of creation that seeks to find unconditional love and harmony within existence itself. I do agree with you that “religion” is it’s own invention induced by man with it’s litmus test for approval based on creeds, doctrines, intrepretations, and traditions of men and a hunger for power and control. Of course these qualities can exist without the guise of religion to try to give it meaning. Corrupt governments have taken this route.
The funny thing about all of this is that ultimately we all are seeking the same end – happiness. The question that stumbles humanity is “How do we do that?”
I do see how your mention of fear can get in the way of answering that question. I guess what you’re saying is instead of their being good and evil, there is instead love and fear. This is a very interesting discussion.
I do think some of the Bible is very accurate, but most is erroneous (76% error). The creation of mankind, Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, God of Abraham, all those are false teachings unless they are considered stories/myths like any other cultures “religious” creation stories etc, then they would be considered fiction, which would be accurate.
I don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater regarding the Bible, but I do cross check with ACIM as that is my yardstick to measure accuracy about God and Jesus.
I think our souls were created by God/Love in HIS image, but God did not create our bodies, at least not the over ruling God of local Gods, one of love only.
I do believe the Abrahamic God to be an extra-terrestrial race as spoken of in Ezekiel, and that that faction did create the current genetic strain of bodies we’ve lived in for the last 7000 years. But the original creation of bodies goes to millions of years ago. The race who created us were not emotionally bright, highly controlling and fear based. This is why the Bible is written the way it is, as from a warrior God rather psychopathic angle. That’s how these beings operate in the universe, warrior like. This God race that created us, well lets just say, they are one bitch of a race to deal with in the universe. They are not “God” they are ET’s.
Morality? Well they did their best via the Bible to set that down, but since they were/are a warrior race, the ideology played out in us i.e. wars and negs, though this need not be.
The actual way to happiness, in my experience, is not to practice unconditional love only, but to remove all obstacles to ul’s presence, as love as we see in “be ye as little children” is the core of who we are as souls. This is how I work with clients as a counselor, remove the blocks to peace/love and peace/love will be re-recognized, a loving “childlike” state as will happiness joy love etc. Regarding the gay culture war, the ex-gays and anti-gays have lots of work to do when they realize their block is not their sexual orientation, but their fear based ideology about it, their obstacle to peace. Then they will find the joy they seek.
Then their are gays in general who suffer from psychic sexual abuse of which none of us escape as it is just “in the air”, unless it is addressed. Then gays can lead happy fulfilled lives, which many do as they have done their work.
Morality; lying cheating stealing betrayal, become non existent when we re-recognize our true state. Jesus is a perfect example of lack of fear, which is a good solid goal for us to attain in all areas of our lives, which can be an ominous task but one we will all eventually do, then the rest falls into place naturally. Our world view becomes once again with innocence, even viewing the darkest “sins”, not as ego based judgers, but “as little children” who just see the good in everyone, regardless of their actions. It’s a full realization of the “human condition” of conflict, and the fact it is not our true selves. Gurus don’t have smiles pasted on their faces for no reason, they have done their work are reattained their child like state of love and innocence. That’s truly something to smile about. The more each and every one of us remove our personal obstacles, the more the world will align throughout, but we must all do our individual work, our “therapy” if you will.
Does this answer your questions? I enjoy this conversation and like that you are interested. So few people want to truly evolve past their messes, mainly because they don’t have the tools and therefore don’t know how, so going “within” to do major repair is for most not an option, as we were never taught how to deal with negative emotions/archetypes and how to remove them so we can see clearer. However, the tools now are available, which is a good thing. Talk therapy is pretty low on the success charts, but there are more advanced tools now that make great sense causing things to move at lightening speed.
So do you believe that Jesus was also created by this alien (ET) race?
As I ponder even more about what you say, the utopian state that you speak of as far as humanity’s ultimate goal of unconditional love goes, reminds me a little bit of the Genesis account before Adam and Eve’s sin. For example, Genesis shows that it wasn’t until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit that they realized that they were naked. Prior to their “eye’s being open” and “being like God in knowing both good AND bad” as Satan had accurately mentioned, Adam and Eve hadn’t even fathomed the idea of shame in regards to nakedness. I think they had the innocence that you speak about. Had Adam and Eve not sinned I believe that their Children, (you and I) would have been born into that same innonce. What is your take on this?
I don’t think Jesus or us were created by an alien race as we are spirits/souls created by God. But the bodies we inhabit were created by ET’s. I thought after I said that, you’d probably think I was a loon and not respond. lol But, soon it will all come out and it’s going to be intense when we actually join the galactic community and start getting all this verified.
If you are interested in the ET aspect, there is a set of DVD’s called Ancient Aliens you can get at Amazon.com that actually documents per ancient cave pictures and writings, all this. The evidence is quite convincing. All the major religions of the world mention ET interacting with humans a long long time ago so it’s all pretty interesting when you see the evidence portrayed in the documentaries. You can also google Ancient Aliens and there are 90 min vids that may actually be all you need to get the picture.
I do think we were more pure at one point in the past, as the Bible says people lived 7, even 800 years. That tells me the bodies were much more advanced than our current ones and that our spiritual souls were brighter, less effected by ego, turning down our soul energy. In ACIM Jesus talks about how were are trapped here and need help, hence he came. The trap from what I can tell is that as we reincarnate over and over again, our souls become accustomed to believing we are bodies and upon dying, we seek to be in them again and again, an actual misdirected soul impulse. So I see his point, we need help to escape what the gurus call “the cycle of birth and death”. Being in the pre sin of eating the apple, I think we were much more conscious and were not trapped, and things were euphoric as you say. I totally believe that. So my focus is getting so aware of my spiritual mind and self, that when I pass, I have a choice of taking the high road and not reincarnating into such a fear based reality, which is a sticking place for souls of which Jesus is here to help us get out of.
Once we “knew evil” as you say, we started to intertwine with it. So the idea of God telling Adam and Eve not to invest in evil by eating the apple, was good advice. Kicking them out of the garden was not a good thing to do to ones children, and so I don’t invest in that take actually happening. I think if one was going to take a clear look at the story, Adam and Eve LEFT the garden a pure state of higher more aware consciousness of only good, because their thoughts were over maybe hundreds of years, more ravaged with pain and “evil” and they simply could not stay in a clear state of grace, or fearless thinking, same thing. I think souls as they incarnated i.e. Adam and Eve, simply got more and more invested in the pain and “evil” they were witnessing and hence it brought down the vibe so to speak, splitting the mind into two parts, one of evil and one of good, instead of holding just good, or one-mindedness w Good aka God.
Hence here were are with split minds trying to get “back to the Garden” of just one mindedness of pure love and goodness. This brings to mind that the bodies we inhabit are only activated on 2 DNA strands out of 12, which is minimal. I think Adam and Eve (mankind) had all 12 going but over time, “the fall” of their spiritual vibration through fear made it’s mark. If we had all 12 going now in present time, we’d not be in this predicament and we’d not even be having this conversation. But, these are the bodies we are choosing, and this is the experience we elected. There is also a take that the ETs that designed the current bodies specifically designed them to only activate on 2 strands, in an effort to make this a slave race with slave mentality easier to control. Either way we have our work cut out for us if we are actually going to take Jesus’ advice and evolve out of this split state of thinking being the “world of opposites”, that’s for sure! (sigh) 😉 Does this all make sense?
I hear you. I do. And there are several things that u say that I think we can draw a parallel with. For starters I think we r both saying that God (Good) is the originator of our life force. From there u mention that ETs designed our bodies. Do u believe that God also created the ET’s? Some of the things that u mention such as Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden prior to their fall are very similar to what I believe the theme of the bible is: proclaiming God’s Kingdom. By God’s Kingdom, I mean the state of being that we would have had had Adam and Eve listened to God rather than believing Satan. One thing that sticks in my mind is that Adam and Eve were warned. They were warned not to eat from the tree. In fact according to Genesis, they were even told what would happen to them if they disobeyed. “In the day of your eating of it, you will positively die”. Those were God’s words to them. Satan however told a truthful lie. He deceived Eve. He told her that she “would positively not die” and Satan continued saying, “..for God knows that in the day of your eating it you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.” Satan lied. He told the very first lie in human history. In fact the bible calls him ” the father of the lie”. So Adam and Eve kicked themselves out of the Garden of Eden by their own defiance to God. And from that moment on, their decendants would be born into the imperfection that our first parents willfully chose.
So when u make mention of us not having to have this conversation because of the 12 strands of DNA, the biblical direction I come from in agreeing with you is that if Adam and Eve had listened to and believed God as oppose to Satan, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. So on that i see a commonality between us. If Gods original purpose was for Adam and Eve to not die but instead to enjoy there life here on our home, (Earth) do u think God’s original purpose for mankind has changed? I’m under the belief that God’s original purpose for mankind has remained the same. And that Jesus was the “ramsom” that bought back for us what Adam and Eve lost. That’s one of the reasons why the bible has referred to Jesus as “the second Adam”. And from Adam’s and Eve’s sin on down to 2011 is the story of humanity on this side of perfection. One of the reasons why I believe humans lived longer then today ( Adam lived over 900 yrs old) is because they were closer to perfection than we are today. By the way I don’t think ur crazy. Not at all. All of us r searching for answers and meaning to our existence.
I’ve noticed that some components of ur post contain concepts of religious origin such as ” soul” and reincarnation. Do u believe that ET’s have souls, or that they reincarnate? I guess I have so many questions for u that I don’t know where to start. Plus it’s late and I’m rather sleepy. I’ll pick back up tomorrow. Take care! Sleep tight!
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