Tony Silva is an Assistant Professor of Sociology at the University of British Columbia. His areas of research include gender, sexuality, and rural sociology. But he’s probably best known for being the guy who coined the term “bud-sex.”
Related: More and more straight guys are giving up “bro jobs” and engaging in “dude sex”
Queerty first interviewed Silva back in 2016 about his study on “bud-sex,” which is when two guys who identify as straight hook up together in private. They have wives. They have kids. They consider themselves 100% heterosexual. But they’re also able to compartmentalize sex in a way that allows them to get it on with other dudes without complicating anything.
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Silva has since expanded that study into a full-length book. Still Straight: Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America explores the secret lives of straight-identifying men who have sex with other men on the DL. We had a chance to catch up with him about the book, his latest research, and to get his take on that whole Jerry Falwell Jr. pool boy sex scandal from last summer.
Here’s what he had to say…
You and I first spoke a few years ago about a study you had published about “bud-sex,” which is a term you coined. Now, you’ve expanded that study into an entire book called Still Straight. I never asked you then, so I’ll ask you now… How did you first become interested in this subject?
One thing I find fascinating is when behaviors do not seem to match the identities people have. Sexuality in particular is something many people consider important to who they are, so I decided to study this topic. There also isn’t a lot known about sexuality in rural areas or small towns, so I thought it would be interesting to examine this issue.
Why do you think gay men are so fascinated by the subject of straight men having gay sex?
I think one reason why is that straight men seem completely off limits–but some are in fact open to sex with other guys. I think that’s one thing gay men find interesting. Plus, a lot of gay men have hooked up with straight guys, so they know that some straight guys do this, and it’s interesting to learn more about the topic. On top of that, a very small percentage of men identify as gay or bisexual. It’s intriguing to think that there are actually many more men who enjoy sex with other men, but who are secretive about it.
You spoke to 60 straight-identifying men over the course of several years. That, to me, suggests that this whole “straight dudes having sex with straight dudes” phenomenon is a lot more common than people might imagine Would you say that’s accurate?
It is definitely accurate. There are more straight guys who have sex with other men than most people would think. Many of the guys I talked to told me that directly. From government surveys I analyzed, I found that several hundred thousand straight men in the U.S., at least, have had sex with two or more men. Most are secretive about their behavior, though, so it was a challenge to find men who were willing to talk to me.
Why do these men still identify as straight? Why are they not considered bisexual?
While many people understandably think that men are “closeted” if they have sex with other men yet identify as straight, this is not exactly true. Sexual identities may describe how individuals perceive themselves, but they do not always indicate a person’s attractions or sexual behaviors. These men are secretive about their sexual behavior, but not their identity. In fact, sexual encounters with men are mostly irrelevant to their identity.
Hundreds of thousands of men in the U.S. identify as #straight yet have had consensual sex with multiple men. My forthcoming book #StillStraight: Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America helps explain why. (1/9) https://t.co/RQV0f2npDE
— Tony Silva (@Sociology_Silva) March 15, 2021
What is the most surprising thing you learned from your research?
A few things really surprised me. First, a majority of the guys I talked to actually supported equal legal rights for LGB people. Second, many of the married men thought that sex with other guys was not cheating. It was almost like a loophole in their marriage contract. And third, when I first began talking to these guys, I was surprised that many loved to bottom and give oral sex. Interestingly, many said that bottoming for another guy was an opportunity to have sex but without feeling the pressures they did when they had sex with a woman. I did not expect to hear that.
Last summer, evangelist leader Jerry Falwell Jr. made headlines after it was reported he enjoyed masturbating while watching his wife have sex with younger men. Now, I realize cuckolding and “bud-sex” are technically two different things. (One involves being a live witness, the other involves being an active participant.) But they sort of fall into the same general wheelhouse. I imagine, if the reports about Falwell are accurate, he used the same logic the men in your research use when hooking up—it’s not actually “gay” because he doesn’t identify as “gay.” Would you say that’s probably true? Or is a man watching another man have sex different than actually engaging in homosexual activity?
That’s a good question. Many guys do not consider something to be gay or bisexual so long as they do not touch another guy. On top of that, many men feel like sex is “straight” when a woman is involved. Whether a man is watching another man have sex with a woman, or a man is having a “threesome” with a woman and another guy, many men feel like something is not gay or bisexual if a woman is involved. Of course, as the guys I talked to also pointed out, even sex between men is not necessarily perceived as gay or bisexual if a guy sees himself as straight.
Labels have been a hot topic within the LGBTQ community in recent years, and especially among younger generations. A lot of queer people feel they are outdated, simplistic, and don’t accurately describe who they are. We’re a lot more layered and complex than just “gay,” “lesbian,” or “bisexual.” Do you think heterosexuals are having a similar realization? Could we be seeing the beginning of a larger shift in how those belonging to the mainstream “straight” community view themselves?
I think this is definitely the case with women. Surveys show that increasing numbers of women in the U.S., especially young women, have had sex with other women. Most straight women don’t have sex with other women, but the numbers are rising. Men’s sexual behaviors haven’t changed as much, at least from what surveys show. A big reason why is that many men feel like having sex with another guy would threaten their masculinity. Same-sex sexuality is also underreported due to social stigma, so I’m sure many men do hook up with other guys but don’t tell anyone about it. Still, today straight women are more comfortable exploring their sexuality than are straight men. Of course, some straight men do have sex with other guys—and I talked to a bunch of them!
Still Straight is available to purchase in many places, including Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and NYU Press.
Graham Gremore is the Features Editor and a Staff Writer at Queerty. Follow him on Twitter @grahamgremore.
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MrMichaelJ
Some? As far as I see there aren’t any totally straight guys around.
rural queer socialist
… and therefore, if we accept your argument would we say that that are not “any totally GAY guys around”. But, of course, there ARE IN FACT many gay guys who would claim that to be true for them.
So, your perceptions are purely that: perceptions. Like perceiving that the world is flat, or that men are superior to women, etc.
Chrisk
Honestly, this is for the gay guys that like to watch that porn where the guy sucks the “straight” guy off who either acts disinterested or just disgusted. For one it’s about your ego. The other it’s about denial.
I used to love hooking up with “straight guys” in my younger years. It’s pretty much a dead end street though. You both use each other and that’s about it. He’ll leave and pretend it never happened until the next time.
Donston
What’s funny is that a lot of those dudes are some variance of “straight 4 pay”, acting “straight” for women and/or acting entirely “straight” and hetero for the out “queer” dudes who fantasize about “straight” guys. The majority of men I’ve met who are closeted, on the DL, overall hetero-leaning but contend with extreme fluidity, or are simply okay with indulging homo behaviors- they don’t truly care about being “straight”. Their presentation of “straight” is either about overall preferences, about sociological homophobia and fear, or about wanting to entice guys that they know are into “straight” and closeted dudes. It’s all a game. So, ultimately, this shit is just about the fantasies of “queers”, about ego and about identity politics.
To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, we need to accept that everyone has their own sexuality, dimensions, motivations, struggles and journey. That identities are not the be-all to everything. That “sexuality” is vast as hell. Everyone indulges different things for different reasons. And that probably at least 30% of people are in the gender/sexual spectrum. However, a lot of out “queers” don’t want to embrace those basic ideas because it kills some of their “straight guy” fantasy and is disallows them to sensationalize identities and behaviors. A lot of out “queers” seem more obsessed with seeing these guys as “straight” than the actual “straight guys” do.
Donston
Is this book really trying to explore and understand other people’s identities, sexualities, dimensions and struggles? Or is this the same tired thing of “queers” being obsessed with “straight” identifying dudes and fetishizing/sensationalizing those guys’ identities, behaviors, struggles? It seems more like the latter, because y’all hardly ever seem interested in exploring nuances or writing passionately about anyone that’s not a straight-identifying dude or a dude in a hetero commitment.
The whole conceit of that book seems very early 2000s. In general, there is now more of a nuanced conversation around sexuality and more of an understanding that “sexuality” encompasses a lot of things (the rates and types of attraction, arousal, desire, enjoyment, fetish/paraphiliac, passion, who you like pleasing, the extent your sex drive). There’s now more conversation around experimentation, fluidity, hyper sexuality, contradictions, behaviors born out of convenience. There’s now more conversation around the gender, romantic, sexual, affection, emotional investment, relationship commitment spectrum. There’s now more conversation around internalized phobias, toxic masculinity, gay insecurities, sociology, hetero pressures, non homo pressures, sexual traumas, mental health, identity and sense of self.
Therefore, this books and Graham’s approach to identity politics, sexuality and orientation seems very much stuck in the yesteryear. And this book seems more geared towards dudes who fantasize about “straight” guys than towards any other demo. (I mean, outside of people who fetishize “straight” identifying/closeted/DL guys that indulge homo behaviors, who would be surprised that a lot of them indulge bottoming)? It’s time to evolve. Stop covering up your obsessions and preferences with fake ass “understanding”. Once again, are you truly interested in understanding individual people and dimensions and motivations and struggles, or are we just profiting off of identities and the sensationalism of being a “straight” identifying guy who indulges homo behaviors? Are we just obsessed with validating their identities for our own fantasies?
Hdtex
Vomit.
rural queer socialist
… CLEAN that up!
WashDrySpin
Still Straight: Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America
The title tells me everything…isolation much like prison calls for gay sex…it is more about desperation than sexuality
I grew up in Illinois…went to school in a rural area and the cornfed beefy smooth men that craved gay sex were plentiful and I had LOTS of sex…LOTS OF SEX…which made both of us happy…VERY HAPPY
Heywood Jablowme
“A few things really surprised me. First, a majority of the guys I talked to actually supported equal legal rights for LGB people.”
This is the only actual *news* here and it’s all I really care about.
“Second, many of the married men thought that sex with other guys was not cheating. It was almost like a loophole in their marriage contract.” This is NOT news, and a lot of wives have always seen it that way too. Ann Landers the advice columnist was surprised about it back in, say, 1972, but why is a sociology professor surprised about it in 2021?
“And third, when I first began talking to these guys, I was surprised that many loved to bottom and give oral sex. Interestingly, many said that bottoming for another guy was an opportunity to have sex but without feeling the pressures they did when they had sex with a woman. I did not expect to hear that.”
Has this guy been living under a rock?
Donston
That’s why I say it’s like he’s living in the 90s/early 2000s. Much of this stuff has already been thoroughly examined, and it’s not difficult to find the research. The majority of people who cheat but don’t get caught don’t really see it as “cheating”. Many people only see sexual acts with folks outside of their marriage as “cheating” if there’s a relationship formed, a romantic connection and emotional investment. That’s not even a strictly same-sex thing. While wanting to suck dick or get fvcked is a big reason many of these “straight”/closeted/DL/in hetero marriages guys mess around with dudes. He’s acting shocked by rather common knowledge.
A lot of these people who write about this stuff nowadays don’t do any real in-depth research when it comes to sexuality, the orientation spectrum, psychology and sociology. They just ask a few dudes some questions and let their own nativities, biases and fantasies fill out the rest.
Heywood Jablowme
It IS a big deal that they tend to support gay rights politically. That’s always been a point of contention here on Queerty. The researchers apparently never asked the question until recently (?).
Say for instance, two rural guys are married to women but have sex with each other sometimes; maybe their wives are cool with it. As long as they support gay rights politically we can just stop worrying about it. As for the “*adultery* there’s no reason we should try to be the enforcers of heteronormative morality (or we can leave that to our friend Wind Chime, lol) for people we’ll never meet IRL, who don’t read Queerty anyway, and would probably just chuckle if they ever read it.
Wicked Dickie
“…Still Straight: Sexual Flexibility among White Men in Rural America…” The topic validates the “it’s just a preference” trope.
Robothedestroyer
I disagree. Sexuality may seem like it refers to just the physical stuff but really it’s about love and romance. None of those men want to be gay, meaning get married to and make a life with another man, they just want a nut and have a best friend to do it with. To flip this around there are many many gay men in my area, more here than in other places I live, that frequently have sex with women but consider themselves super duper gay. They just want a nut and if that’s that’s available that’s where they go.
I know a lot of folks on here have said this research has been done. But honestly just with the recent papers and stuff I’ve been writing lately (my 2nd run through college, I’ve decided, is going to be unapologetically gay) you’d be shocked how little research has been done on a lot of LGBTQ+ stuff.
AxelDC
Bisexuals who haven’t come out to themselves are no more straight than Jews eating Easter ham are kosher.
usfcab
Your comment was Not very nice. It was disrespectful to Jews; and if you are Jewish, then this is self loathing, not funny and not cute!
griffin87
Give it a rest— I thought it was hilarious haha
Cam
@usfcab
Detail out exactly how it was disrespectful.
rural queer socialist
You said
Bisexuals who haven’t come out to themselves are no more straight than Jews eating Easter ham are kosher.
This is not a very apt logical construction. You are comparing a self-identification (do I ‘come out to myself’ as ‘bi’, which is not objectively observable or measurable) to a religious sectarian rule or law (law and practice of eating ‘kosher’, that is both observable and measurable).
THIS mis-match is what can make the comparison offensive.
A better way of saying might be
Bisexuals who insist that they are ‘only straight’ are no more honest about themselves than ‘progressives’ who don’t find a labor union to join.
Both are hypocritical CREEPS!
Den
@rural queer socialist
Give it a rest, you are possibly the most tiresome regressive heterosexual troll to rear their head on this site.
And the comparison between two types of people whose self definition contradicts their actions is perfectly logical and apt.
And as a Jew, not disrespectful to Jews or Judaism/
By contrast your labor union comment is the kind of dull right wing attempt at humor and insult that people here have come to expect from you.
baguchi1
THANK YOU!
as a woman who was in a 6 yr relationship with a man who I came to find out was sleeping with men on the DL, it’s insulting to me or anyone else who considers themselves heterosexual.
Identifying as straight and being attracted to men is ridiculous. You can call yourself Captain America all you want it doesn’t make true.
tjack47
I think being heterosexual is different from wanting your penis in a warm wet hole. Sure, there are some bicurious guys who fantasize about being fellated by or fellating guys as they have sex with the woman or women in their lives. Sometimes they act on it. Sometimes they don’t. I remember when anything anal meant you were gay. Lots of straight men like anal play, even intercourse with a strapon. I think sex is on the spectrum like Kinsey. Lots of goings on between 1 and 6.
Donston
A lot of those “straight guys” who like to bottom or suck dick contend with gender fluidity/gender expression fluidity or extreme sexual fluidity or crippling fetishes and paraphiliacs or queer shame or internalized phobias or fear of homophobia. Some are recovering from/coping with childhood abuse. And so on. This is a much more complicated and individualistic subject, and it’s very much a part of the “queer’ conversation”. It’s as complicated and individual of a subject as people are. But instead of actually investigating all of this complicated and sometimes disturbing stuff, these sites and these types of books continue to focus on how hot it is for “straight” guys to indulge homo behaviors. The shit is really embarrassing at this point.
Joseph
I lived that life through 18 years of marriage. Then I cam out. These men are not straight, they are in denial. Internalized homophobia is a very damaging thing. I’ve written a memoir about my extraction from that life which, I believe, is a lot more honest than this “study.”
Leo
You tell him.
marshal phillips
From my experience and point of view, these so-called “straight” men who have down low sex with men are closeted bisexuals. They really enjoy the sex, but don’t want to be identified as bi for some reason or other.
winemaker
Unbelievable! Whoever thinks and believes that straight guys hook up with gay men just to explore the other side or out of boredom are living on Pluto. Men who hook up with other men are gay and the sooner these guy’s face these facts, the better. And if the guys are married, stop living a lie and come clean with your wife. In the long run, it’s not fair to the both of you.
Troyfight
@marshal phillips …. best answer. my experience as well.
…+ the perv in me likes the report “many loved to bottom” the VERY best. Oh yeah.
marshal phillips
Troyfight yup… to shag a closeted “straight” guy was like feasting with panthers. They are eager sucker bottoms in private.
Cam
A lot of words all to avoid the simple fact that there are a lot of closet guys who cheat on their wives or girlfriends with other guys.
It’s called being closet cases. If someone is bi, pan, or gay, and hooking up with men every time their wife is out of town., them calling themselves “straight” is just an eye roll.
Heywood Jablowme
Yes but they don’t read Queerty so maybe you should get comment accounts at rural papers like the Logansport Pharos-Tribune, the Laramie Boomerang, or (my favorite) the DeQueen Bee in DeQueen, Arkansas.
mykelb
This should be a warning to any young man looking for a rea relationship. Avoid these dudes like the plague.
radiooutmike
@Joseph
I did pretty much the same thing.
You know this would not be a thing if they had something on the side with women. It’s just two dudes, which makes it sensational. But are they keeping this a secret just because they’re cheating? Even though they say it’s not. Or because it may ruin their life if they were found out to be having gay sex.
We all struggle with heteronormative identities and sex roles. I’m more upset that they are cheating on their wives, rather than who exactly they’re cheating with. Maybe if these rules were laxer or non-existent; they would have more freedom.
But their “side” makes the rules.
Josh447
I think many bi men are culture groomed to play out their str8 side. Are they gay? No. They are bi. And many go through realizations as the culture grooming wears off.
baguchi1
I totally agree. If I’m dating a guy (I’m female) and you tell me you’re straight but your secretly sleeping with men, you’re an imposter and you’re denying me the opportunity to decide if that’s the kind of relationship I want to be in. Call yourself Bi or whatever, but you’re NOT straight. Don’t piss on my leg then tell me it raining