Rep. Sheryl Briggs testifying on the Maine House floor (rush transcript): “I have been struggling with this bill for months knowing it is going to come forward … that I’m going to have to choose … I’m so sorry I’m going to hurt my family, friends, citizens of the state of Maine. See, my daughter is gay. I have known this for about 15 years. Throughout all this time, I have kept my personal feelings on this matter separate … She has never ever heard me express my opposition to this in her life … I would never hurt her. I would got to end of the earth for her. But because I feel so strongly about opposed to this bill, blame it on my upbringing or the good book. … I can’t change how I feel … But because of who I am and where I am and as a member of this legislative body, ethically it is my duty and responsibility to publicly say to my daughter that I do not support [gay marriage]. I just had to finally confess to her exactly how If eel and now i have no choice. I have to hit that button. Although I could say that the majority of my constituents are in opposition to this bill, to which they are, and to use that as my excuse to my decision making process, but that would not be fair to me, my daughter, or my constituents. I am sorry that there is no other way we could compromise to make things better for everyone, because that’s what we do as legislators. We are here to fix things. To make things better for everybody. I feel like I need to let everyone citizen know that the decision we make here today is not an easy one. … I ask each citizen in the state of Maine on both sides of the aisle to please respect our individual decisions.”
alan brickman
big surprise that women hate gay rights??
marc
She would go to the end of the Earth for her, but vote for unequal rights????????
TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY !
OH MY GOD!
ask ena
She’s the kind of woman that will kick her daughter’s wife out of the hospital room and fight her to get the kids.
This sob story is as offensive as any. YUCK
Jerry Priori
And once again religion is the cause of insanity. She has a hell of a nerve calling it a “good book.” I feel bad for the daughter, who now has her own choices to make regarding her relationship with her mother. Were it my mother, I’d never talk to her again–it’s either me or her imaginary friend.
Rob Tisinai
Gotta love it when bigots want to be congratulated for their integrity and fairness.
KEVIN VANCOUVER BC
her belief in a non existent entity has caused her to turn her back on her own flesh and blood Religion truly is a poison.. what a joke I wish I lived in more enlightened times ..
jake
“and no offense to anyone”
“I would never hurt her”
sick
TANK
Religion is poison; it ruins everything it touches, but especially honest open dialogue ;). She’s a minority voice in the Maine house. Apparently MS English isn’t a requirement to be elected to that body.
jake
Religion is a mental illness.
andy
“religion is the opiate of the masses”. I’m a product of 10 years of Catholic School and now identify as Atheist. In my opinion 95% of the people espousing christian doctrine don’t even believe it themselves. Give me a break, stop the nonsense and religious hocus pocus!
roger
why don’t the article or the headline point out that she is a democrat?
roger
to clarify: it would be common and appropriate for an article to mention a candidate or elected official’s party affiliation. is there a good reason why she is not identified as sheryl briggs (d-mexico)? just wondering…..
Virilene
“…blame it on my upbringing or the good book.”
Only a ‘good book’ high-jacked by Bad Men teaches that kind of hate, woman. But you CAN heal yourself. In the meantime, if your daughter’s child ever needs a grandparent, I’d be happy to volunteer.
osocubano
@roger:
Is México a state now?
Nick
I would never speak to my mother ever again. Anyone who puts politics before family doesn’t deserve the respect or love of the latter.
Nickadoo
Please respect my individual decision to restrict others’ individual decisions for the purpose of being reelected.
Cam
Since most of these anti-gay rights folks like to claim that they think people choose to be gay…I guess that means that this woman just didn’t raise her daughter right.
Mark
One more time:
1. Religious people are more in love with ideology than reality.
2. Far too many elected officials, all of whom are Republicans, and who are religious, are far more in love with ideology than reality.
3. Republicans will tell their very own family that they don’t want to hurt them, but they do so, and they do so deliberately. To wit: **THIS ONE DID IT DELIBERATELY**
Conclusion. Easily drawn conclusion. VERY easily drawn conclusion. Republicans are NOT and never have been about family values. THAT IS A LIE. They are about ideology and their religion ONLY.
The mind-meld with the religious right began back in 1980 with Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority. They started to seal their doom at that time. They have now gotten as far as they can possibly go with their doomed and failed ideology, based solely on Medieval religious tenets.
Indeed, Rush Limbaugh, the de facto leader of the GOP, announced just this week that the GOP doesn’t need to go on a listening tour. They need to go on a TALKING tour. To tell their followers how to think, what the talking points are, what to believe about social issues. They are sealing their doom even more as they talk and talk and talk.
Keep talking. Please keep talking.
Kdogg
“I ask each citizen in the state of Maine on both sides of the aisle to please respect our individual decisions”
How can she even say that without noticing the hypocrisy behind it. Please respect our individual decisions, beliefs, and humanity!!! Or if you can’t respect all individuals in this way then for the love of everything love your daughter and respect hers.
WHAT A JOKE OF A HUMAN BEING!!
I’m calling and suggest others call this woman’s office to let her/them know how disgusting she is: (207) 364-5665 or email at [email protected]
This website: http://www.maine.gov/legis/house/hsebios/brigsj.htm says her cell phone number is (207) 357-8148. I suggest calling that also!
Mark
I stand corrected. The woman is a Democrat. I will not modify my stand. RELIGION is the central cause of this issue. Why is this woman NOT a Republican?
Mark
I stand corrected. The woman is a Democrat. I will modify my stand. RELIGION is the central cause of this issue. Why is this woman NOT a Republican?
Dennis
Hey Queerty-
How about a worst moms/best moms article for upcoming Mother’s day…just a thought.
This beeeyotch “can’t change how she feels”…well, yes you could change how you feel if you had a shread of human decency or compassion as a mother…makes f’in Joan Crawford seem like mother of the year.
Celo
I’m calling right now. Call this woman and let her know what a filty pig she is.
Laura
What a slap in the face!
Jayson
If this does not pass gays need to stay away from Ogunquit(spelling?) this season.
Bruno
She seems to know that she may have done irreparable damage to her relationship with her daughter, yet feels the best course of action is to blindly follow that “good” book (of fiction). If I’m her daughter, I severely limit that relationship, but I’m not the most forgiving person. Maybe she’ll get lucky.
Chris
@Kdogg:
Leave her alone to stew. Nobody respects an unkind Mother — that’s what she’s left with in her community.
Don’t let her turn your calls into ammunition like Miss California is doing.
Bob
I hope her daughter gives her a big “Fuck you, bigot!” and cuts this hateful woman out of her life forever.
Sam
This reminds me of the Prejean vs. Hilton mess. If Hilton wasn’t going to respect Prejean’s right to have a diverse opinion from him, then why did he ask the question? Just asking the question implies that the answer may be one thing or another. It seems to me that there was never enough criticism of Hilton for his over-the-top reaction to Prejean’s answer. If you don’t want to hear the answer, then don’t ask the question. And as for Ms. Briggs – God bless her for being true to her principles, and God bless her daughter also.
kevin (not that one)
Someone won’t be attending a Mother’s Day brunch!
zach
we are getting people together to send Briggs mother’s day cards affirming her status as an AWFUL mother. send ’em to her office or to her home. mother’s day is sunday!
Representative Sheryl J. Briggs
District 93 – Canton, Carthage, Dixfield, Mexico and Peru
72 Poplar Hill Road
Mexico, Me 04257
or Rep. Sheryl J. Briggs
House Majority Office
Room 333, State House
2 State House Station
Augusta, Maine 04333-0002
Bruno
@Sam:
I totally agree with you in theory, and I think the LGBT community reactions were more along the lines of being against Perez’ drama and knee-jerkness. But now I’m doing a double-take as I’m not so sure Perez knew something we didn’t. Because Carrie Prejean has turned out to be everything he accused her of and more, and has proven how those who take the passive/aggressive stance against gay marriage (i.e. “no offense but the bible says”) often have stronger, more offensive opinions. And somehow this drama queen Perez Hilton has shown up Ms. Prejean for what she truly is: a bigot.
Jersey
Wow, In 2009 after PFLAG and Judy Sheperd her position seems so anachronistic. That book really is evil.
Hannah
“…She has never ever heard me express my opposition to this in her life…”
Wow. Can’t say it to her daughter’s face. Won’t tell her that she will willingly deprive her of over a thousand rights.
Her daughter deserves props for coming out to this woman.
roger
@osocuban: feel retarded yet? next time, do a bit of research before you make a useless comment.
Celo
Sending her a mother’s day card with a dead fish is an even better idea.
Oaklander
So, am I allowed to be a bigot because my dad was one, and the bible talks about slaves? I don’t get her logic.
AZgaybe
its was lawful to kill jews in germany back in the day sooooooooo you go eva braun!
Kdogg
I love the dead fish idea!
I was thinking of sending my mother’s day card and having it read
“Everyone has to make the choice about whether or not to be a cold-hearted bigot.”
and when you open the card it will read:
“It’s just not everyday that you see a mother choose cold-hearted bigot over their daughter…. HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY, you’ve succeeded in being an awful one”
Celo
Dear Congresswoman Briggs,
In revealing yourself as an ignorant bigot…you have also revealed yourself as an inept Congresswoman.
I would hope that any representative to the US Congress would have a better understanding of our Constitution and the separation of Church and state. The fact that you are using the “good book” to make your voting decisions disturbs me to no end.
After you patch things up with your daughter, I think that you should start looking for your next job.
Sincerely,
A US Citizen
Celo
@Kdogg:
A critique on your Mother’s Day card…
Happy Mother’s Day, Roe v Wade came too late.
zach
p.s. rep. briggs is not a congressperson–she is a state representative in maine.
Celo
Thank you Zach…I will amend said letter.
Carl
Excuse me friends, but could we please stop the religion bashing? There are PLENTY of liberal, progressive, religious people who CANNOT be lumped together with the ignorant sheep who deserve our scorn.
As a gay Christian, and partner to a gay clergyman, I get INCREDIBLY sick and tired of the kind of anti-religious bigotry that is routinely spouted here. Please think about how your generalizing of “all religious people” or “all religion” is as distasteful and wrong as others’ generalizing of all gay people as perverts, deviants, etc.
kevin (not that one)
@Carl: I’m a gay Christian as well, Carl. But we shouldn’t be mad at our LGBT brothers and sisters who have a negative view of Christianity. This negative view has been cultivated by the right-wing fundamentalists and evangelicals who’ve stolen the name “Christianity”. Liberal Christians are just as guilty of allowing them to claim the mantle of Christianity by not doing more to show the world that people like Pat Robertson represent a hateful, divisive sect within Christianity: even more, that they don’t actually live by the code of conduct set out by Jesus.
Until liberal Christians do more to take back the name of Christianity, then expect people to associate “Christians” with the intolerant, violent, bigots.
MommaM
It amazes me how many of you on here, preach “free speach” and want others to be “tolerant” of your chosen lifestyle and opinions and yet, when your thoughts and beliefs are challenged or even merely disagreed with, you attack their religion, intelligence and THEIR right to believe and live the way THEY do!
Marriage is for many people, much more than domestic agreement, religious beliefs or just a good excuse to have a party. Marriage to many, is a sacred union, a commitment to family, a tradition, a ceremony celebrating the union of a man and a woman and the beginning of their walk through life together and the future they promise to share together in raising children and grandchildren etc..
I happen to be a mother of a bi-sexual daughter. I love my daughter with all my heart, but she too knows that I do not support anything other than traditional marriage. I hate the fact that I have to even include the word “traditional” in that sentence, because to me…marriage is simply between a man and a woman, period!
I believe that couples from all different backgrounds, should have the ability to have the same legal rights that “marriage” offers, ie. the tax breaks, the right to make future financial decisions for each other, the right to give someone else who has your best interests at heart, the right to make medical decisions for you, etc..But, I do not believe it should be called “Marriage.”
I wish the gay community would stop trying to CHANGE the straight community in such huge ways. How about the idea of a compromise? Why not have the same type of union, but call it something different, “Domestic Union” or something like that? Why try to take something so very sacred to so many people and still be able to acknowledge your partner and your love for each other, without taking away from the rest of us? You’ve chosen a different lifestyle, your breaking tradition. Why is the traditional title of “Marriage” so important? You would have many, many more supporters if this was your approach.
If you want society as a whole to be tolerant and understanding, you need to be so as well. For those that don’t understand this concept and just want to bash everyone who has an opinion that is opposite your own, you are the problem too!
I am in the professional beauty industry,an industry that readily accepts gay men over straight women in many ways. I also happen to be moderately overweight and have been passed over during interviews, promotions etc, even though I had many more qualifications (by the way, there are no weight discrimination laws, so I have no “rights” in this arena). Many men will not date an overweight woman, even if she is a beautiful woman historically.
I have been and continue to be someone that faces discrimination daily in my own life. I married and had children with a man who is of mixed race, therefore my kids are as well. I knew what I would have to face on a day to day basis. I still chose my life and while others don’t agree with my choices, I am proud of the woman I am and the strength I have had to overcome a great deal of my challenges in life.
I have many gay friends and relatives, I have friends who have gay parents and I love them all dearly. I do not bash them for their choices in life, nor do they bash me. I do not think their opinions are any less valid than my own and vice versa. We can all agree to disagree without being disrespectful or hurtful to each other.
Not every straight person shares my opinions, just as there are many “gays” that don’t believe the legal union of same sex couples has to be called “marriage” or in gay adoption as a first choice for children in the foster care system, when there are many straight couples or single straight people wanting and willing to adopt or that transgendered people have the right to withold their birth gender from same sex potential (intimate) partners, etc without consequences.
I hope we as a society, can come to compromise for the greater good. I hope people will stop and really think about their own actions and words that express hate or even simple disrespect and realize that it has to stop from within first!
strumpetwindsock
@MommaM:
If the title of marriage isn’t so important, then why are you making such a big deal about our right to it?
The fact is we have marriage equality in a growing number of countries, including mine. It has not undermined straight marriage or the jurisdiction of Churches to follow their faiths in any way (though our largest protestant church DOES bless same-sex unions).
You do have a right to your opinion. You don’t have a right to standing the way of the law or recognition of human rights.
I would advise you to get ready to accept gay marriage, because sooner or later it is coming. The fact is, it will probably have no impact on your life whatsoever.
Alec
@MommaM: You do a fairly decent job of masking your bigotry at points, but we’re all familiar with what you think about our evil “chosen lifestyle,” and using “gays” in scare quotes isn’t going to change that.
Why don’t you call what you’re doing a domestic union?
Well I’d like to believe you, but we’ve seen from the bigot amendments that the right wing will lie through their teeth and use the amendments to ban even health care benefits for domestic partners. So if you expect to be taken seriously, do some research.
I love this:
So, straight singles and couples > gay singles or couples. Got it. And I know people are just jumping at the chance to adopt kids out of the foster system! That must be why there aren’t any foster children or children to adopt, period!
Also, what does the birth certificate deal have to do with anything?
Bill Perdue
Religion is the enemy.
Religionists are divided into two groups.
The first and overwhelmingly larger group is not in touch with reality and no matter which cult cluster they adhere to, christer, judaic or islamist, they mean to harm us.
Whether they murder us in Iraq and Iran or prepare the grounds for that by denial of our equality in the US and the EU, their goal is ultimately the same.
The second group is composed of those who pretend not to be in touch with reality, and who pray “To Whom It May Concern” to protect an income. Historically they make very unreliable friends. In Germany in the 1920 some pastors flirted with Magnus Hirschfeld’s pro-gay groups. In the 1930’s, with a dozen or so exceptions they put on their armbands and watched Hirschfeld’s books burn, trade unionist be murdered and by the time Krystalnacht arrived the same priests and pastors were full fledged accomplices of the Nazi’s.
Nearly all the leadership of the Democrats and Republicans are bigots or pander to bigots. They were shocked in 2000 and 2004 when the Republicans hovered up the bigot vote and now they want to repeat their success. Joshua Dubois is the Democrats Minister of Pandering.
Alec
@Carl: Personally, I’m not going to be receptive to Christianity, whatever the position a church or a denomination takes on gay rights. That religion is as alien to me as any other, and as baseless. I agree with you, though, that we should be careful not to lump the UCC in with the Southern Baptist Convention. On the other hand, I think Kevin has a point: liberal Christians need to be much more outspoken, particularly in denominations like the United Methodists, the Presbyterian Church and other so-called “mainline” denominations, as well as within the Catholic Church. As it stands, they’re still the enemy.
@Bill Perdue: That’s why we must all support the super gay friendly Communist states of Cuba and North Korea and Vietnam, as opposed to the evil reformist social democracies in Europe and Canada. Do I understand it correctly?
Marion from Germany
what a surprise things will never change if we don´t start. As a mother she might not support the decision of same sex marriage, but as a politician she has to support it and has to seperate her decisions from personal belongs. I can´t believe that in Spain,Sweden and Iceland give equal rights to gay people and in the USA they are discussing as if hell is caoming to earth.By the way Iceland is ruled by a married lesbian Primeminister.
MommaM
ALEC: “You do a fairly decent job of masking your bigotry at points, but we’re all familiar with what you think about our evil “chosen lifestyle”” and “Why don’t you call what you’re doing a domestic union?”
Nowhere in my post, did I call anyone “Evil”…you are obviously projecting our own hostility! I don’t call my marriage a domestic union because it’s called marriage, always has been, always will be. I am not the one trying to change tradition! I am not sure what the birth certiicate comment was about.
Strumpetwindsock: “If the title of marriage isn’t so important, then why are you making such a big deal about our right to it?” and “You don’t have a right to standing the way of the law or recognition of human rights.”
Actually, my point was that the traditional title IS VERY IMORTANT. And, I absolutely have a right to VOTE, possibly standing in the way of law etc”
Alec
@MommaM: Why do you refer to our “chosen lifestyle” and use “gays” in scare quotes? I think you’re a bigot, and you’ve been called on it. Your failure to use the qualifier “evil” doesn’t matter when you’re accusing us of undermining civilization.
Also, I demand that you resurrect the old traditions accompanying marriage: No marriage outside your religion or tribal affiliation, no marriage for infertile couples or those choosing not to have children, NO DIVORCE, and polygamy=OK. Only then can you complain about “traditional marriage” being undermined by the homos.
Bill Perdue
@Alec: You rarely understand anything except divorce court fees.
In particular you misunderstand the role of Stalinism and the ultimate catastrophe embedded in your brand of toadying to bigots.
I guess that’s the price you pay for being a shyster handpuppet for a failed society sliding into depression, murdering muslims for their oil and all run by a bigot named Obama.
cmh
Okay MommaM so marriage is a religious union between one man and one woman.. I suppose then you support our right to fully repeal all state sponsorship, tax breaks, social security benefits transfer upon death, etc except for what you plan for on your own and just let it be between you your husband and God? Right?. right?.. crickets……OH and I’m sure you are out there pushing hard for separate but equal too.
uh yeah. right.
MommaM
@Alec: I don’t recall using the word “gays” in “scare quotes until now.
I married within my faith (Christian, but neither attended church and we were married non-denom), my tribe is the human race, I did have children (3 to be exact) and I don’t believe in divorce unless it is due to abuse of some sort (this includes adultery).
If I am a bigot because I have my own ideals and opinions, so be it. I am not forcing them on you, I have not called you any names or been disrespectful to anyone. Can you say the same?
TANK
@MommaM:
Poisoning honest, open dialogue ;). You’re so simple minded, too… It’s much harder to be a nonbeliever because we’re predisposed toward religious belief. It takes real character to acknowledge these ridiculous stories for what they are: Fiction.
MommaM
@cmh:
Actually, I said it was more than just that! Did you really read my whole post or did you just make a judgement and decide what I wrote without reading it? Wow, such anger and resentment in the posts
TANK
Trying to make your bigotry palatable by hiding behind your right to be a hateful bigot isn’t what anyone’s addressing…so it’s a deliberate distortion to paint yourself as a victim of oppression. No one’s denying you or any of your hateful christian bretheren the right to voice your opinions–as you’re doing right now…as skinheads can, too…lawfully as they’ve every right to just as you do.
MommaM
@TANK: “You’re so simple minded”….Ahhhh, as if your opinion of me really mattered. Religion aside, my beliefs remain the same. My higher power is of my choosing, not as conventional as you would like to believe.
Matthew Rettenmund
MommaM: Yes, you ARE forcing your ideals and opinions on us by supporting making it illegal for us to marry. If gay people were the majority and we outlawed Christianity or “opposite” weddings (which, by the way, would never happen, because we are not against others having their own way of life, only our enemies are), would you really be able to chit chat with us and socialize and be RESPECTFUL of our opinions, opinions that denigrate you to the core? I would hope you’d have more self-respect than that.
We do.
Alec
@MommaM: Well as I like to say on cross, let me refresh your memory:
Since about 1967.
Heretical until very recently. “Non-denominational” is a very cute, modern invention of Protestants generally and American evangelicals specifically. But I digress; your superstitions don’t interest me.
In fact, if you go by your own scriptures, the only acceptable grounds for a divorce. But your fast food convenience religion just overlooks that one; too inconvenient now that you are of the world of the flesh, to borrow from your own “good book.”
Last I checked, I can’t get married. Until 2003, I couldn’t have sex without committing a felony in my state. I’d say you’re forcing them on me.
TANK
@MommaM:
That’s it, though. It’s just unquestioned unexamined dogmatic faith… I’m not trying to persuade you of anything. It’s your right to be a despicable christian bigot who believes fervantly in god. Your made is closed to reason and rational argument, and that’s your right, too. Just because you have an opinion and hide it behind your right to have it and express it, and attempt to poorly justify it based upon superstition…doesn’t make it worthy of respect (toleration, sure)…no one need respect it, though. And it’s bigoted and childlike, and you aren’t very bright.
Don’t forget, the moment you introduced your bigoted beliefs into this forum which does judge negatively the vast majority of posters here, you should expect to be treated to some negativity yourself…but I don’t consider that negative (that you’re kinda dumb)…just a neutral description.
CMYK
This just makes me love my mom so much right now.
TANK
And further, you’re weilding your faith as an excuse to not think and be offensive.
MommaM
We all face opression in some way shape or form, this isn’t a contest. I haven’t been “hateful” to anyone, quite the opposite in fact! Nor have I preached religion in anyway, I simply expressed my opinion with respect and dignity. Can you prove me wrong?
TANK
@MommaM:
And that oppression that many of us do face doesn’t justify bigotry, nor the reasons we face it. You don’t seem to have a real developed understanding of ethics as well, but I’ve noticed that stupid people aren’t very good…or if they are, it’s largel accidental.
But you have been hateful. Your beliefs are bigoted and rooted in discrimination. Denying it doesn’t make it go away just like saying that god exists, for example, doesn’t prove it…
TANK
It’s just a vapid opinion…you can also believe, if you wish to, that seven and five sums to eighty two. You should be met with hostility for holding such a belief by people who care about the truth and preserving and pursuing it…just as you should and have been met with hostility for this mere bigoted and wrong opinion of yours.
MommaM
@Alec: Thank you for correcting me, although I didn’t know putting the word “gays” in quotes, was scary! My Bad!
So sorry to have gotten your panties in a bunch with my “bigoted, dumb, child like opinion”, after all, I am “not very bright.” Thanks for pointing that out!
zach
it not worthwhile to argue. marriage equality is coming–people under thirty really don’t care that much about this issue as all of the recent polls have shown, and that’s the way it is going to continue. the largest opposition is in the 65+ group. marriage equality is coming sooner then they think or would like, but it will happen regardless.
kevin (not that one)
@MommaM: If you came here to try to convince the LGBT community – all of us survivors of prejudice, hate, and bigotry that your sexual orientation is largely responsible for – that we should all just “compromise” on fundamental human rights, you’ve failed massively.
It’s much easier said when you have nothing to lose in this so-called compromise. Well, I guess that’s not exactly true: you would lose your false privilege. Your government-sanctioned superiority over anyone whose family doesn’t look exactly like yours.
Bringing up the fact that you’re in a “mixed race” relationship and that you are overweight is cold comfort to those of us whose families are torn apart and who’ve had adopted children seperated from the only true parents they’ve ever had. If you truly could sympathize with our plight, like you make yourself out as having done so, then you would understand that having the government recognize our relationships on an equal basis as yours is hardly grounds for all of the reactionary hate that your side fires up against same-sex marriage.
Lastly, you heterosexuals have been redefining marriage for centuries. You’ve redefined it so that half of you don’t even take it seriously. We LGBTs do take it seriously, we want it, and perhaps that’s what this outrage is really about: you folks are just jealous that we, despite being reviled, take our relationships seriously and are almost always in them for the long-term.
You covet the bonds we share with our partners and are jealous of the fact that we love, despite incredible obstacles that lay before us. Despite all of the harm your narrow-minded culture does to us, we rise above it all and follow our hearts.
Jerry Priori
@Carl: It’s not my fault that god does not exist. That you have an imaginary friend is your own affair, but it’s hardly off limits to call a spade a spade and point out delusion where we see it. Yes, there are many nice and liberal Christians, but the fact that they’re nice and good people in no way demonstrates that the god they believe in exists. I don’t see any reason to coddle adults in their delusions just because they’re nice people. I’d always defend the right for you (or anyone) to believe what you find to be true–but I’m not just going to shake my head and nod just because not all religious people are nasty bigots. Christianity would still be false even if every single Christian wanted to buy the world a Coke and a smile.
MommaM
@kevin (not that one): Kevin, beautiful response! I appreciate your opinion and respect the way you shared it with me. I want to express yet again, I do believe that all couples, regardless of sexual orientation, have the right to the benefits of what has traditionally been called “marriage.” I do not wish to keep anyone from that!
I am not the religious freak, others are trying to make me. I haven’t been in a church in years. I was merely pointing out that others, have religious beliefs that prevent them from even wanting a compromise in this situation. I am not one of them, but I believe they have a right to their opinions as well. Everyone has a right to voice their opinions, that’s democracy!
I do not personally hate or even dislike you, in fact…you seem like a nice guy.
I believe in marriage, I believe in making long term commitments. Our society has become one of “more” and that there are always bigger and better things/people to be had and this has made marriage to some, a joke!
You said, “You covet the bonds we share with our partners and are jealous of the fact that we love, despite incredible obstacles that lay before us.”
Actually, I am not jealous of this fact! I lived this fact with my (ex-hubby). I didnt include that we were divorced because it was not pertinent at the time, but we are after 17 years of marriage and three children (he left me for another white woman after he sunk into a depression due to his mother’s death) which is why I am in college studying psychology at 40. Maybe I should quit though, it seems I am stupid (tank)! We were from a very small town in the Midwest and believe me, inter-racial relationships were not accepted! I loved my husband enough (and vice versa) to continue our lives together, no matter what obsticles we would have to overcome and like you, that is a beautiful thing.
Any two consenting adults, who wish to make a life long commitment to each other, well…that’s beautiful to me!
stevenelliot
Madame Judas has spoken. Selling your own daughter down the river for political gain? You’ll burn in hell for that.
kevin (not that one)
@Jerry Priori: You guys are ignoring the root causes of homophobia…it’s not religion.
The root cause is the very human tendency to distrust and demonize that which is unlike us or whatever group we were born into or chose.
If you could look upon the teachings of Jesus as not divinely inspired but as what any other philosopher would be saying around his time, you would have a less viceral reaction to those who truly do look to him as a lens through which they see the world. Jesus hammered home time and time again that we should be impartial towards each other, that tribalism was the cause of suffer (ie, the Good Samaritan), and that love was above all laws.
Pete
@alan brickman: WTF? Women are, in general, way more supportive than men on gay rights. What an idiotic thing to say, especially considering there are plenty of gay men that aren’t terribly fond of standing up against misogyny.
This woman is a disgrace to her child. Pathetic.
kevin (not that one)
@MommaM: Okay. But if the hurdle for you is simply a word, then abandon your hold on the word for the sake of peace!
If you support lesbian and gay couples in their attempts to be on equal footing with the rest of society, then you have to start looking at us as equals.
Look at how many non-“traditional” arrangements we have in this country when it comes to marriage. Jews marry Catholics, it’s marriage. Poor marries rich, it’s marriage. Black marries white, it’s marriage. Canadian marries American, it’s marriage. But man marrying man, it’s not marriage: why? Because they’re coupling is different?
Because they can’t produce children by themselves? Since when do we value a two people’s relationship through whether they can reproduce? We don’t prevent barren women from marrying, and we don’t forcibly divorce a couple who haven’t produced offspring. We don’t prevent the elderly from marrying.
This all boils down to prejudice. Okay, there are plenty of people who do not enjoy seeing an interacial couple walking hand and hand down the street. For them, it’s disgusting. For them, it’s against “God’s law”. For them, it’s just not natural.
Well, guess what? That’s exactly what we gays and lesbians here day and day out. But you know what the exception is? We’re still prevented from being recognized by our government. But our government doesn’t act the same when it comes to interracial or interreligious couples…that’s why this is such a travesty of justice.
You seem like a nice and with-it person, but surely you can see the hypocrisy with how we’re treated. Personally, I don’t care much for anti-gay religious organizations. They can go to church every Sunday and pray to a God that sends people to hell for loving each other; I don’t care. But that’s not how my church sees it, and that’s not how many churches and synagogues see it either. We are MARRYING SAME-SEX COUPLES IN MY CHURCH right now, so some religious groups are ahead of the government on this issue. And yet, that doesn’t really matter.
This all comes down to taxation without representation. This is about democracy and equality before the law. This is about fairness.
Will it continue to make people uncomfortable? Yes. But people change. We’ve seen that. White people in the US are not as racist as they once were. That is a fact. As time goes on, we’ll see a change in how the majority views same-sex marriage and gay people. That’s a given.
NewYorkness
DONE DEAL! MAINE VOTES FOR GAY MARRIAGE! NOW IN FRONT OF GOVERNOR TO SIGN!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/us/06marriage.html?em
BrianZ
I feel so badly for her daughter. That has got to hurt like a sumbitch to hear.
t money
wow, so many respnses.
go discuss them at city-data.com
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/
T
Apparently, wedding chapels are just a little bit past the end of the Earth in this woman’s world.
What a sanctimonious, useless disgrace for a mother.
This battle of which you speak… it’s already lost. Ask your voting-age children. It’s just a matter of demographics and time (a much shorter amount than most are prepared for).
States, and the legislatures that govern them, should be lining up to be on the correct side of history. Good to see Maine doing the right thing, even as individual lawmakers reveal their true, disgusting colors.
MommaM
@kevin (not that one): “Okay. But if the hurdle for you is simply a word, then abandon your hold on the word for the sake of peace!”
Kevin, again, I appreciate the response. My response to this quote is this…For the sake of peace, let me hold onto the institution of marriage and the title. I give acknowledge your right to have the same rights under a different name.
If I could vote a law into effect that did this, I would..today!
We take so many things, so far that it creates tension among the differing races, religions, orientations etc…
We all want to be accepted for who we are and what we believe and yet in doing so, we segregate ourselves from the masses all in the name of unity.
Why is it the black community can have Ms. Black America and yet, if the whites had a Ms. White America, it would be racism? Why is it, there is a Gay Pride Festival and yet, if we had a Heterosexual Pride Festival, it would make us bigots?
By forcing our opinions with such vigor and utter disrespect of other opinions, beliefs etc, aren’t we alienating and segregating ourselves from the very society we are fighting to be a part of?
If my only exposure to a gay man (for instance) was on this site and the replies to my post, I would be even less accepting of the lifestyle. I would think all gay men to be verbally obusive, egotistic, narcissitic, disrespectful jack as#$es sitting behind a computer with their dictionary (so they can look up those 20pt words) to use that make them feel superior. I mean seriously, it must really hurt some of these writers backs to kiss their own ass that much!
Luckily, I know that most gay men are not this!
There are two sides to everything and both sides have validity and somewhere in the middle, the reality usually lies. You can have yours, but let me have mine!
Howard Silver
You can indeed “change how you feel.” Simply “feel” based on rationality, kindness, and true Christianity, rather than intolerance handed down from the pulpit.
You can either want certain consenting adults to be unequal or you can wish for them to have the same rights you enjoy. The minute you try to take away rights that you enjoy, though, you become a hypocrite, no matter what the irrational rationale.
Why can’t politicians make judgments based on logic?
strumpetwindsock
@MommaM:
With respect, no.
You don’t own the institution of marriage. There’s no basis or even a description of marriage in the bible (nowhere does it say it has to be blessed by clergy, and nowhere is there any set ceremony, or even anything saying it is between two people). People have had marriage ceremonies in other cultures long before the bible was written.
The notion of marriage as a sacrament is a much later invention of the catholics (The Puritans even outlawed church weddings when they ruled England).
So I don’t want to be rude, but your image of marriage is just a product of your culture and its xenophobia. There is no other basis for it. Like it or not, marriage is at its most fundamental a secular institution (churches recognise civil ceremonies, and any magistrate has the power to divorce any church-married couple).
Plus, you have already lost the battle in several countries, including mine – Canada. The government was forced by the courts to recognize that refusing marriage to everyone regardless of orientation was a breach of human rights.
Our largest protestant church – the United Church – blesses same sex unions. The fact is no churches which forbid same-sex marriage are being forced to go against their beliefs. The change has had no effect whatsoever, except that more people who love each other can now get married.
So sorry if you are upset, but this change is coming whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Mark
MommaM -you need to check your historical facts. Fact – the first recorded marriage certificate is in the Vatican Library circa 1215 CE. Now, here’s the fun part. In the Vatican Library, there is a marriage certificate from the fourth century, if not earlier and you got it mommaM a SAME SEX COUPLE!! This is documented by Virginia Ramey Mollenkott, “Overcoming Heterosexism – To Benefit Everyone” in Jeffrey
S. Siker, 148.
Lastly, I am an ordained minister and the last time I performed a wedding ceremony, I am required to state: “By the power vested in my by the state of ______________, I now pronounce you……. It doesn’t say by the power vested in my by the Christian church, the Catholic Church, The Lutheran Church – it is by the state! This makes this a civil issue and not a religious one. It is only religious because of ignorant people twisting things to their own bloody way.
Case closed.
Jon from Maine
Which good book?.. A Stephen King novel? The Gov. has a sister who is gay. Lets see how he feels….
MommaM
@Mark: Read my post again, find where I am basing my own opinion solely on religion, even mainly on religion.
If you told me there was a marriage certificate filed at the vatican for a man and his goat, it would not change my opinion.
Nor would it change my opinion if it was filed in the state of CA or any other!
Here are the current, pertinent facts as I see them:
1. I have my own opinion, as do you
2. I have a right to state and stand by my opinion, as do you
3, I have the right to vote, as do you
4. A majority of the voting public, don’t agree that there should be same sex marriage, in the way it is being pursued
5. A good deal of said non-believers in same sex marriage, might actually be willing to vote for equal rights in this area, if it were called something other than marriage which has very traditionally based ideals for most people for whatever reasons they have.
6. By trying to force something upon others, that is sacred to many..you face fierce opposition and had the gay community chosen to not be soooo demanding for others to break with their beliefs, you could have gotten your equal rights just the same in less time rather than waiting for the teenagers and 20 somethings to get to the age of majority.
kevin (not that one)
For the sake of peace, let me hold onto the institution of marriage and the title. I give acknowledge your right to have the same rights under a different name.
This is simply an apology for seperate and unequal. It’s like saying “I will acknowledge your right to sit in the back of the bus, so long as you don’t sit anywhere else.” But what we’re saying is “no, that bus is for public use, paid for with public money, and we have a right to sit any damn where we please.”
Why is it the black community can have Ms. Black America and yet, if the whites had a Ms. White America, it would be racism? Why is it, there is a Gay Pride Festival and yet, if we had a Heterosexual Pride Festival, it would make us bigots?
There is nothing wrong with diversity, but the fact that you feel heterosexual white people are invisible simply doesn’t match up with reality. You want Ms. White USA? Look who won. Look who came in second place. You want a Heterosexual Pride Parade? Look at any St. Patricks Day Parade, which also doubles as the heterosexual white parade. You want other white festivals? Look at any convention of the Republican party. You see, these things exist in fact, even if they don’t in name.
White and heterosexual privilege are so deeply ingrained into our society, that sometimes the only time one is aware of them is when they are contrasted against that which they are not.
The truth is that white, heterosexuals self-segregate just as much as anyone else does, sometimes intentionally and sometimes not. A look into the congregations of most churches confirm this. But have you ever been to a Gay Pride Parade? It is one of the most diverse groups of people you will ever be surrounded by.
Maybe some of the words from myself and my lesbian and gay brothers here are harsh, but they aren’t without merit. You come on here and post what we’ve been exposed to our whole lives…you telling us to just give up on being treated like equal partners in society. Our tolerance level for debate is high, so long as there is respect and so long as we’re not rehashing what’s been discredited many times before (like the notion that gays “choose” to be gay). You come here making sweeping generalizations and spouting the same misconceptions that we’ve heard time and time again and you’re going to be treated roughly. Why?
Because you’re dealing with people who are abused daily in the media, in the church, and in their private lives by people who “love us.” And yet you expect us to treat you with kid gloves when you come here basically calling us “intolerant” and urging us to sit at the back of the bus? I don’t know what kind of gays you associate with, but I have a feeling that if you are this way with them, they are acting one way to your face and quite another when you are gone. They likely don’t think as much of you as you’d like to believe. How could they? Unless they were truly possessed by self-hatred, how can any self-respecting gay man or lesbian associate with someone who thinks they are unworthy of the same rights and privileges you enjoy?
John Santos
@MommaM:
if we had a Heterosexual Pride Festival
You do have one, MommaM; it’s called everyday life. Any time straights can get married; it’s a pride parade. Any time straights can adopt, or foster a child, it’s a pride parade. Every time straights can vote on whether or not gays can get married, it’s a pride parade.
I find it hypocritical of you–a divorced woman, who did not divorce because of abuse, the ONLY reason you think people should divorce–would be dictating to the rest of us who may, or may not get married.
…I don’t believe in divorce unless it is due to abuse of some sort…
You’re bitter over your belief that gay men get more work in hairdressing than you. You’re angry that your 17 year marriage failed and your husband left you for another woman. You’re bitter that gays are fighting for marriage equality, while you’re own bi-racial marriage was given to you by those who came before you, without you having to lift a finger for it.
You’re an unhappy, middle-aged woman who can’t stand to see others happy.
Also, you are studying psychology, you are not a psychologist. Stop trying to act like one.
Lastly, I pity your bisexual daughter. The idea that you make it clear that you feel she is a second class citizen deserving of less than equal treatment speaks volumes about you, MommaM.
It’s apparent from your responses that the only opinion that matters to you is your own. And no amount of sound logic, or reasoning will sway you. Like so many, you will never allow facts to cloud your judgment.
Straight people have been redefining marriage for centuries. Even calling it marriage. That is not a centuries old word–that is a modern English word. When my sister got married, the priest said it was a union before the face of God. Clearly, if anyone should be forced to use the word union, it should be people who participate in religious ceremonies, not the rest of us. The word marriage is a government word. All tax payers and voters own it. Not just the straight ones.
Your husband did not buy you with cash, or livestock. You were not set up in an arranged marriage, you chose your own husband. If your husband died, you did not have to marry his father, or one of his brothers. You have never been considered property in the eyes of your husband, or the church, or the state. Marriage has changed drastically over the years, whether you like it or not. And clearly you like it.
You got divorced. Until the 1950’s easy divorces were impossible. Yet, because divorce laws changed, marriages changed. Gays did not make those changes–straight did. The day you protest actively against quickie divorces, MommaM, I will take what you say about marriage equality seriously. Until then, Ms. Divorcée, your opinion matters not a whit.
John Santos
@MommaM:
Here are the current, pertinent facts as I see them
These aren’t facts, Ms. Divorcée. Facts are things that are researched and backed up with empirical evidence. Do you submit a paper to your professor and provide nothing but your opinions and expect a passing grade?
You have no basis for opposing equal marriage other than you don’t want it. That is childish.
andy
@Momma,
First, you are probably older? say 60? and your generation and it’s bigotry will soon be gone. Things change and progress, and your views are part of the past.
Second, the ONLY people I discriminate against are those who discriminate IE., Bigots like you. If you don’t understand that gay people and their families NEED protections because of People like you, then I don’t know what to say!
Third, I feel sorry for you, and the legacy that your bigoted generation is leaving.
Good luck,
Andy,
Alex
@MommaM:
“If I am a bigot because I have my own ideals and opinions, so be it. I am not forcing them on you, I have not called you any names or been disrespectful to anyone. Can you say the same?”
How can you be so deluded. If you don’t support the legalization of same-sex marriage, you are forcing your definition of marriage on same-sex couples.
How is that so hard to understand?
Now, on the flip-side, if same-sex marriage were legal, how would that be forcing anything on you? You could still marry someone of the opposite sex. You wouldn’t have to marry a woman. Where is the burden on you? Just knowing that same-sex couples are afforded the same label as your marriage? W
andy
@m
Your intolerance for the lives and concerns of others is astounding. Everyone has personal opinions and that is a given; however, when your opinions concerns the subjugation of an entire class of citizens based on identity, your opinion becomes fascistic and bigoted and hateful. If your religion gives you license to to espouse such bigotry then it becomes difficult for me to differentiate you and your religion to the TALIBAN and theirs.
MommaM
@kevin (not that one): “There is nothing wrong with diversity, but the fact that you feel heterosexual white people are invisible simply doesn’t match up with reality. You want Ms. White USA? Look who won. Look who came in second place. You want a Heterosexual Pride Parade? Look at any St. Patricks Day Parade, which also doubles as the heterosexual white parade. You want other white festivals? Look at any convention of the Republican party. You see, these things exist in fact, even if they don’t in name.”
Kevin, you just proved my point in a way. In fact, you could have a legal union even if it doesn’t exist by name!
Yes, I have been to the Gay Pride Festival, Long Beach to be exact, for many years I worked there yearly. Again, in my first post, I stated that I believed a couple of any kind, deserved the same rights as afforded traditionally married couples.
MommaM
@andy: Actually I just turned 40. I was not raised in a very religious family. I was not forced to go to church. I don’t even personally have a bible in my home. I have lived in CA almost all my life (one of the most liberal states) and I have several friends I hold dear that are gay. I think this scares the hell out of you! The fact that I am truly NOT the enemy and yet, I have such a firm stance on my beliefs and I have a right to vote!
John Santos
I stated that I believed a couple of any kind, deserved the same rights as afforded traditionally married couples.
But you don’t believe we deserve equality. Therein lies the rub.
John Santos
@MommaM:
I think this scares the hell out of you! The fact that I am truly NOT the enemy and yet, I have such a firm stance on my beliefs and I have a right to vote!
You’re the one who is scared. If you oppose equality, you are an enemy. Not of gays, but of the human tribe you claim to be part of. You may have a firm stance on your beliefs, but you have a very tenuous grip on the reality of your belief.
And guess what. We have the right to vote too.
John Santos
@MommaM:
I was not raised in a very religious family. I was not forced to go to church. I don’t even personally have a bible in my home.
It’s obvious that since you weren’t raised to believe in something, that you’ll believe anything.
MommaM
@John Santos: Actually, adultery is emotional abuse and it is against the martimonial vows that he and I took…period! If you think calling me a “divorcee” is a cut down, think again…I made that choice.
As for the facts, you’re bitter because you’ve made life decisions and choices ultimately, that go against the grain and you’re not man enough to handle the reality and consequences of those choices. Are they fair? Most often not, but do they exist, yes. Will it change? In time, probably. But you will get nowhere fast, by being a disrespectful piece of work.
stevenelliot
@MommaM: I believe that all married couples should, in the eyes of the state, be recognized as having “civil union” status. This would be for gays and straight alike. Only a religious institution can “marry”.
But it would be unwise and unethical for the state to recognize one set as being “married” and one as being a “civil union”
BECAUSE even if its merely semantics it smacks as being separate but equal and also one group appears subtley superior to the other.
This word marriage that many straight people cling to has no business being uttered by the government. The governments job is to make legal contracts not religious unions.
So I believe there is common gound between us, here.
MommaM
@stevenelliot: Nicely put! I actually agree there is common ground and I appreciate the fact that you chose to see the similarities rather than the differences.
As for a subtle difference, there will always be a subtle difference in the perception of an individual. Whether same sex marriage has the same name or not, is irrelevant. Straights and gays will always look at each other as different, we are different. I was different when I married my exhubby, I was shunned by some of my own family/friends for years. I have accepted that they feel the way they do and ultimately they accepted my choices. They didn’t have to agree, they just accepted.
I’m sorry you feel my opinion is unfair, but if I were to not speak up and sound off to something that is important to me, that too would be unfair.
I was merely trying to offer up a theory of compromise, that would afford all to get what they want, even if not completely the way any of us want. I am soooo, not the bad guy! I am nowhere near the extreme conservative that makes up so much of our society, if I was…there would be no way I would even enter into this conversation in the forum I have.
I think it is sad that some people on here have chosen to meet me with such anger and resentment, but I do not deserve it.
Mark
MommaM – this country was founded on the separation of church and state. Keep them separate!
getreal
@MommaM: You have a right to your opinion what you do not have a right to do is take rights away from other Americans because of said opinions. There will always be bigots who feel that by an accident of birth they are superior and therefore deserve more rights. Why anyone would want to be one of those people I cannot even begin to imagine. It says “All Men are Created Equal” in the Declaration Of Independence and we as a country are getting closer and closer to that ideal. If you consider yourself to be a patriotic American how can you be against that. And for the record I am Christian I was raised in a religious family and we are all from my 65 year old parents on down passionate supporters of marriage equality and equal right of every kind for all Americans.I think if you don’t change your views 20 years from now you will be looking back in shame at your bigotry.
John Santos
@MommaM:
Actually, adultery is emotional abuse and it is against the martimonial vows that he and I took…period!
Where in your matrimonial vows was adultery mentioned? Where was emotional abuse mentioned? Clearly you’re trying to justify the failure of your marriage by pinning that failure on the other person.
It’s never you, is it? it’s always the other person. You’re not anti-gay, gays are too pushy. You aren’t a bad mother for disrespecting your daughter, your daughter is bad for being bi-sexual. You’re not bitter over your failed marriage, your husband cheated. All you do is make excuses for your own failures.
If you think calling me a “divorcee” is a cut down, think again…I made that choice.
First off, your husband made that choice for you. You had no recourse but to go along. Secondly, calling you a Divorcée isn’t a put down, it’s a fact. Your marriage failed, yet you believe you are a font of knowledge when it comes to marriage.
As for the facts,
Not facts; your opinion. I explained the difference above.
you’re bitter because you’ve made life decisions and choices ultimately, that go against the grain and you’re not man enough to handle the reality and consequences of those choices.
I find it amusing that when you kiss your own ass for having a bi-racial marriage in a small town that frowned upon bi-racial marriages, you consider yourself brave. Yet you consider me bitter.
As far as not being man enough to handle the consequences, everyone who fights for equality is proving themselves to be man enough. If I wasn’t man enough, I wouldn’t be debating you right now under my real name. You hide behind a screen name and attack those who point out your opinions are absurd.
You attack your daughter’s right to equality, that is not very motherly of you. Clearly your have a bad relationship with your entire family–you’re estranged from your husband; you’ve driven a wedge between yourself and your’ bisexual daughter; you’re angry because you think gays get treated better in hairstyling than you.
Are they fair?
We’re not asking for fairness, we’re demanding the equality promised us under the constitution of the United Sates of America. Please keep your namby-pamby feel good expressions out of this serious debate. i understand you have trouble with differentiating between facts and opinion, but do try to understand the difference.
Most often not, but do they exist, yes.
So you admit that bias against gays does exist. Will you also admit that you are part of the problem?
Will it change? In time, probably.
It already has. And that is what enrages and frightens you. You will no longer have gays to kick around.
But you will get nowhere fast, by being a disrespectful piece of work.
That means very little coming from a belligerent, angry, bitter shrew such as you, Ms. Divorcée.
andy
Funny thing about the claim of marriage always being around because Gays also have always been around. Early Classical Greek Literature often celebrates gay love and same sex couples. I’ve read about early christian ceremonies celebrating same-sex unions. Most of Human History is defined by Gays and their achievements: DaVinci, Michelangelo, Socrates, Caravagio, Rimbaud, James, Wilde, the list goes on and on.
Giving gay people civil rights actually reinforces marriage. DO you know how many married straight men/women seek gay sex? Give me a break and stop the fake marriages. Gay men and women can’t be forced Straight!!
We want marriage rights because we want our stable relationships and families recognized and protected just like everyone else; gay people don’t undermine marriage, straight people have done that all by themselves. Politicians getting divorced. Priests and ministers having sex with prostitutes both male and female, give me a break! Get over you heterosexual privilege because it’s time to stop treating gays like second class citizens!
getreal
These right wing bigot are such liars. I’m sorry to be rude but it is true. Their whole reason for hating gays and lesbians has been because gays and lesbians are promiscuous and against family values. They have perpetuated that myth for decades now gays and lesbians are raising families and getting married now they are against that. Why can’t they just admit that they want gay people to disappear? Or at least live as second class citizens without the privileges that straight people enjoy.
John Santos
@MommaM:
Straights and gays will always look at each other as different, we are different.
The only people who choose to see us as different are straights. Whether you want to accept the fact or not, gays are the same as straights. We love the same; we want families the same’ we want careers and security the same. The only difference is who we share our beds with. And it is that difference that people like you have chosen to magnify and make the all encompassing issue of importance.
I was different when I married my exhubby, I was shunned by some of my own family/friends for years. I have accepted that they feel the way they do and ultimately they accepted my choices.
But you were able to marry. The law forbidding your marriage was taken off the books, even though full 90% of Americans opposed bi-racial marriages. Yet, you want the government to oppose same-sex marriages. At least half the country supports marriage equality–much more than those who supported bi-racial marriages, yet you want to stop same-sex marriages form becoming legal, or recognized. Do you even see the hypocrisy in your ideas?
They didn’t have to agree, they just accepted.
Which is more than you are doing when it comes to equal marriage. You refuse to agree or accept.
I’m sorry you feel my opinion is unfair, but if I were to not speak up and sound off to something that is important to me, that too would be unfair.
To who? You came here looking for a fight and when you got one, you got upset.
I was merely trying to offer up a theory of compromise, that would afford all to get what they want, even if not completely the way any of us want.
So in other words, we should take your separate-but-equal ideas and be happy? Sorry, but that would be “unfair”.
I am soooo, not the bad guy!
Yes you are. You are disrespectful to your daughter because of her bisexuality; you came to a gay blog in a belligerent manner; you name call and ridicule.
I am nowhere near the extreme conservative that makes up so much of our society, if I was…there would be no way I would even enter into this conversation in the forum I have.
Anti-gay people of all stripes come here to debate us. You’re nothing new.
I think it is sad that some people on here have chosen to meet me with such anger and resentment, but I do not deserve it.
Yes you do. You oppose equality that that is unforgivable.
John Santos
@MommaM:
I’m sorry you feel my opinion is unfair, but if I were to not speak up and sound off to something that is important to me, that too would be unfair.
By the way–how can you claim that marriage is important to you if you’re divorced? If it was as important as you claim, you would have kept your marriage together. Once again, you’re a bitter Divorcée standing in the way of other’s equality.
MommaM
@John Santos: Actually, I came into this forum with my honest opinion, if you can’t handle it..so sorry!
My marriage is of no concern to you, as your bed partner is of no concern to me, other than the fact that your head is shoved so far up your a#@ that I am sure you have no need for a partner!
My daughter and I love each other very much, again…none of your business!
I am not upset about those willing and eager to “debate” me, why would I be? They have opinions too! You however, just want to fight, someone to take out your anger and resentment on for the day, someone you think you can feel superior to. Go for it! If you feel like a man by being a jerk, congratulations!!!
From this point on, you can reply to my posts, but you will get no response from me. Your simply not worth it.
getreal
@MommaM: I don’t agree with things getting quite so personal or vicious as none of us actually know each other we cannot really know what kind of person you are or what kind of family you have.I would however like to point out that you just typed an interesting statement My marriage is of no concern to you..” well guess what gay people’s marriages are no concern of yours. Why don’t you take your own advice and stop trying to stick your nose in matters which by your own words “don’t concern you”?
Blond-Dog
What a poor excuse for a human being. A stunning gift to her daughter so close to Mother’s Day! And if the “good book” she is referring to is the Bible, her upbringing and religious training must be in the hands of really hateful people who don’t have any idea of the basics of the teachings of Jesus! Spiritual violence hurts and can be deadly.
John Santos
@MommaM:
Actually, I came into this forum with my honest opinion, if you can’t handle it..so sorry!
I’m glad you are finally admitting that all you have is an opinion–no facts. You came to this forum to put us in our place. You felt the need to meddle in the lives of others and Queerty gave you the opportunity.
My marriage is of no concern to you,
So why did you bring it up? You presented yourself as a 17 year married woman, when in reality you’re a Divorcée who has no room to judge others. Just because your marriage was a failure, doesn’t mean that marriage equality will be a failure for America.
as your bed partner is of no concern to me
But you’ve made it your concern. You’ve decided that you must stick your nose in the bedrooms of gay Americans and dictate who may, or may not marry. Who may, or may not even use the word marriage. If you can’t handle having your ridiculous arguments challenged, then you need to stop posting comments.
other than the fact that your head is shoved so far up your a#@ that I am sure you have no need for a partner!
I appreciate that I’ve touched a nerve by pointing out your failed marriage, but childish name calling only displays your ignorance and further demonstrates that your opinion has no bearing on marriage equality. Cursing shows a weak mind.
My daughter and I love each other very much, again…none of your business!
You’ve stated that you don’t support your daughters equality. How is that loving?
I am not upset about those willing and eager to “debate” me, why would I be?
Because it’s been pointed out time and again that you have not presented facts, just your opinion.
They have opinions too!
Which you have dismissed, while complaining about other posters refuting your opinions.
You however, just want to fight,
I didn’t come to your forum and challenge your straight marriage. You came here looking for a fight and when it was brought to you, you got your panties in a knot.
someone to take out your anger and resentment on for the day
Funny, that is how you are coming off. All you’ve done is moan that gays don’t deserve marriage equality and should settle for second class status. You’re clearly angry at gays for some perceived slight, whether real or imagined and you deemed Queerty readers fit to be the target of your anger.
someone you think you can feel superior to.
You are the person claiming straight marriages are more legitimate than gay marriages. Whom is looking for validation and a feeling of superiority?
Go for it! If you feel like a man by being a jerk, congratulations!!!
This coming from the person who put the word gay in quotes, called our lives a lifestyle, called our sexuality a choice and claimed that we should be happy with second class status. You’ve set the standard for jerkiness, Ms. Divorcée, I’m merely following suit.
From this point on, you can reply to my posts, but you will get no response from me. Your simply not worth it.
You will continue to respond because you are desperate for attention.
John Santos
@getreal:
Brilliantly put, Get real!
getreal
@John Santos: I think you scared her off lol.
TANK
@kevin (not that one):
Sure it is. The root cause of homophobia is sexism. And sexism and homophobia and the abrahamic faiths are inextricably linked to one another. Sure if religion were somehow miraculously eliminated from society, sexism and homophobia would remain, but it would be diminished significantly given the role that religion plays in upholding them.
rick
according to the family research council her kid is gay because of HER and her husband.
kevin (not that one)
It’s clear that MommaM voted for Prop 8 and now she’s hear…what? to clear her conscience?
I’m not having it, and I suspect neither are the rest of you.
Prop 8 was an attack on the lesbian and gay community and was not about “protecting marriage”. That’s bull. MommaM willingly bought in to the nonsense that the word “marriage” was sacred, unchanging, and reserved for one man/one woman since the beginning of time. But John Santos tore that argument to shreds.
I’ve unfortunately run into people like MommaM before and they act all hurt because they “really love the gays” and are “not haters” but as soon as they get in the ballot booth they RAM the knife right into our backs. As long as us queers don’t get uppity, we’re okay. As long as we entertain them or make them feel better about themselves, great. As long as we’re obedient servants. As soon as we start encroaching on their privilege, and as soon as we stop being the nelly Steppin’ Fetchits and start demanding full equality, then that’s TOO FAR!
Because of their own willful ignorance, they continue to believe that we’re just “choosing” to be gay, choosing “whatever feels good”, and that our lives and our love is not authentic, lasting, or real. We’re just confused and going through a phase…so of course they can never see us as deserving the same rights they are born with. Just stay in the proverbial closet and shut up.
If this isn’t homophobic bigotry, then I don’t know what is. Never have I even heard one of these “marriage is sacred” folks suggest that we strike the word from the constitution when it applies to them. They know damn well that when they get hitched, it’s a marriage – not a “civil union”. All of this garbage about “what’s in a word” is bull. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I live in California as well. I know these types. Out of one side of their mouths they claim to be tolerant, and out of the other they belittle us for being outraged over our status as second-class citizens. When they go to get a facelift, they’ll have to hire two plastic surgeons! They preach about “freedom” and yet they’ve never once lifted a finger to fight for the freedom denied to America’s oppressed classes, such as our freedom to marry. They’ve never known what it is to have to fight for a basic right they arrogantly take for granted. It’s no surprise that that dingbat Carrie Prejean came from California…everything in CA is bigger, including the hypocrisy.
You know what MommaM? Save it. I will not allay your guilty conscience or come to any middle ground with someone who does not want for others what they have themselves. What you did when you voted for Prop 8, you did against me, against your daughter, against lesbians and gays, and against people in our community who are straight – religious and non-religious – who continue to support us.
You stripped away the marriage rights of 18,000 couples. You have played your own part in the forcible divorce of 18,000 loving couples. That is nothing, NOTHING, to be proud of.
One day, you will be the minority and I pray to God that day comes soon.
John Santos
@getreal:
🙂
I’m sure she’s circling looking for another opportunity to atta…I mean state her “opinion”.
I think she is a fine example of what Truman Capote once said:
As everyone knows, a fag is a homosexual gentleman who has just left the room.
I’m sure she’s fine with us–as long as we know our place. And she will decide for all of us what that place is. I rally feel sorry for her daughter.
John Santos
@kevin (not that one):
It’s clear that MommaM voted for Prop 8 and now she’s hear…what? to clear her conscience?
Maybe trying to justify in her own mind her bigotry. She will tell herself over and over again that she is right in opposing marriage equality and look for any reason, no matter how specious and accept it as fact.
I’m not having it, and I suspect neither are the rest of you.
I was trying to stay out of this because all of you were doing a great job in articulating the pro-equality side. But when she stated that she was divorced, I couldn’t shut-up any longer.
Typical hypocrite opposes marriage equality, and claims gay marriage will ruin straight marriage, while she is divorced. Just like Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and all the other multiple divorced people who claim gay marriage will destroy straight marriage.
John Santos
@rick:
ZING! 🙂
MommaM
@getreal: It is a shame most of you do not offer, that which you seek!
BTW marriage is NOT a HUMAN RIGHT
John Santos
@kevin (not that one):
I’ve unfortunately run into people like MommaM before and they act all hurt because they “really love the gays” and are “not haters” but as soon as they get in the ballot booth they RAM the knife right into our backs.
I remember a long while back, another poster named HiSurfer talked about his experience with the ballot in Hawaii in 1996. Apparently there was some hag who used to hang around the gay bars and considered all gay men her friends. It turns out she voted against the marriage ballot and stated that marriage was only for straight people. The bizarre part was that she was a drug dealer moralizing against gays.
He also made the comment that after the vote, he wondered which 7 out of 10 of his straight friends voted against his equality.
getreal
@MommaM: “Marriage is a sacrament of the lord for his children”. That is the bible. It is a human right. If you don’t believe in gay marriage then don’t marry someone of the same sex otherwise to use your own words other people’s marriages “aren’t your concern”
TANK
Let’s put that to bed. That marriage is not a human right, but, the opposition goes, a privilege. Why is that? Because you have to meet certain conditions to be eligible for marriage, and, they say, you don’t have to meet certain conditions for a right. Well, that’s false from the get go, for there isn’t a right that doesn’t come with conditions (e.g., being a u.s. citizen to enjoy free speech…being old enough to vote…so is voting not a right but a privilege, too?). And then, they round it off by completely begging the question by insisting that one of those conditions is that marriage is between a man and a woman…there’s no argument for this other than saying that same sex couples can’t get married because marriage is for opposite sex couples…ah, circular reasoning…it’s invalid for a reason!
MommaM
@rick: I would actually have to agree that is a possibility and a probability. My ex had an affair after 17 years of marriage. He would not give up either myself or the other woman willfully, so yes, I kicked him out. I waited 2 years before filing the papers of seperation to give him time to either try to reconnect in the marriage or end it with the other woman. I offered every possible chance to put my marriage and family back together, he chose not to. He lied, not only to me, but to my daughters numerous times in the process of cheating and also trying to reconcile. Do my daughters trust men now? No. Could that be part of the reason my daughter has been with a girl (2nd relationship, she’s 16), possibly.
John Santos
@MommaM:
It is a shame most of you do not offer, that which you seek!
Don’t try to come off as clever, you only look foolish. We’re just giving you what you’ve been giving us.
BTW marriage is NOT a HUMAN RIGHT
Please provide the facts to back up your claim.
BobP
I don’t believe these people who are anti gay rights, but claim to have all these gay friends. I think they are full of shit. The idea they she has friends who “respect” her belief that they don’t deserve the same rights as her is ridiculous.
Listen up- you lose all credibility when you lie.
Disgusted American
Register · Lost password? SHOCK: Rep. Sherly Briggs Has Gay Daughter, WILL NOT Vote For Gay Marriage
Rep. Sheryl Briggs testifying on the Maine House floor (rush transcript): “I have been struggling with this bill for months knowing it is going to come forward … that I’m going to have to choose … I’m so sorry I’m going to hurt my family, friends, citizens of the state of Maine. See, my daughter is gay. I have known this for about 15 years. Throughout all this time, I have kept my personal feelings on this matter separate … She has never ever heard me express my opposition to this in her life … I would never hurt her. I would got to end of the earth for her. But because I feel so strongly about opposed to this bill, blame it on my upbringing or the good book. … I can’t change how I feel … But because of who I am and where I am and as a member of this legislative body, ethically it is my duty and responsibility to publicly say to my daughter that I do not support [gay marriage]. I just had to finally confess to her exactly how If eel and now i have no choice. I have to hit that button. Although I could say that the majority of my constituents are in opposition to this bill, to which they are, and to use that as my excuse to my decision making process, but that would not be fair to me, my daughter, or my constituents. I am sorry that there is no other way we could compromise to make things better for everyone, because that’s what we do as legislators. We are here to fix things. To make things better for everybody. I feel like I need to let everyone citizen know that the decision we make here today is not an easy one. … I ask each citizen in the state of Maine on both sides of the aisle to please respect our individual decisions.”
May 5, 2009 · 3,079 views (beta) · Link · 125 Responses
Tagged: Maine, Marriage, News, Sheryl Briggs
Comments (125)
No. 1 · alan brickman
big surprise that women hate gay rights??
Posted: May 5, 2009 at 11:55 am · @Reply · [Flag?] No. 2 · marc
She would go to the end of the Earth for her, but vote for unequal rights????????
TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY !
OH MY GOD!
Posted: May 5, 2009 at 11:57 am · @Reply · [Flag
I was thinking the same exact thing!!! Like,WTF is this asshole “mother” thinking?
MommaM
@BobP: My friends and I agree, that you don’t have to always agree with someone to care and love them. For those of you who do not subscribe to that thought process, you must not have many friends or they are all cookie cutter versions of YOU…either way, very pathetic.
TANK
@MommaM:
John Santos
@MommaM:
I would actually have to agree that is a possibility and a probability.
Now you’re a biologist and a sex therapist?
My ex had an affair after 17 years of marriage.
I thought your marriage was none of our business?
He would not give up either myself or the other woman willfully, so yes, I kicked him out.
Sure. He wouldn’t give either of you up, so upon getting “kicked out” he chooses the other woman? How do the fox’s sour grapes taste?
I waited 2 years before filing the papers of seperation to give him time to either try to reconnect in the marriage or end it with the other woman.
No. You hoped and prayed that he would come back. Probably nagged as well.
I offered every possible chance to put my marriage and family back together, he chose not to. He lied, not only to me, but to my daughters numerous times in the process of cheating and also trying to reconcile.
According to you,
There are two sides to everything and both sides have validity and somewhere in the middle, the reality usually lies.
Since we’re only getting your side on this, your version can’t be accepted as factual.
Do my daughters trust men now? No.
And I’m sure you’ve poisoned their minds not only against their father, but against men in general.
Could that be part of the reason my daughter has been with a girl (2nd relationship, she’s 16), possibly.
Or maybe she’s born with it.
John Santos
@BobP:
I don’t believe these people who are anti gay rights, but claim to have all these gay friends. I think they are full of shit.
Yep! There was a comedian who said something to the effect that, if all these anti-gay people had as many gay friends as they claim, we’d be 50% of the population.
Denis B-B
@alan brickman: Women oppose women’s rights
John Santos
@MommaM:
My friends and I agree, that you don’t have to always agree with someone to care and love them.
Do your friends also agree that if you love someone–like a daughter–you believe they don’t deserve equality?
For those of you who do not subscribe to that thought process, you must not have many friends or they are all cookie cutter versions of YOU…either way, very pathetic.
Funny, since you don’t support our belief in thinking your arguments are absurd.
We have no idea who your friends are. You would have us believe that ALL your many gays friends support your belief in second class status and think it’s peachy. If you act in public, the way you’ve acted here, then you are a sad lonely mess.
TANK
My friends and I agree, that you don’t have to always agree with someone to care and love them.
And how many Helens does that make?
mikeandrewsdantescove
Unbelievabe that a mother would turn on her daughter. If I were the daughter I would walk away from her because this decision says, “I do indeed think your a second class citizen.”
Mike
Out Loud Dedicated to the Gay Marriage Couples in Iowa & Vermont
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-LuoS9rfi4
John Santos
@MommaM:
My friends and I agree, that you don’t have to always agree with someone to care and love them.
Do you always seek to block equality for those you love? We’re not talking about whether, “Desperate Housewives” is better than “Lipstick Jungle” here. We’re talking about 18,000 families having their marriages voided because voters like you oppose marriage equality.
John Santos
@TANK:
HA! Comment of the night goes to TANK! Love the KITH reference 🙂
DeAnimator
@alan brickman: Um, without feminism, feminist theory, and the support of a lot of women centered groups- there would be no queer rights, queer theory, etc.
I suppose I could be just as broad and offensive and say, “Oh look, another ungrateful, entitled gay man”.
But anyway, that woman is disgusting.
mb00
Maybe she should “Go to the end of the earth” and STAY THERE!!! Fine, so she’s got the right to feel any which way she pleases, but why drag her daughter into it? as I’m sure she’s stuck the knife deep enough already, why keep turning it more?
What a snatch.
dp
@John Santos: dp
major props for this, simple, eloquent…thanks
Bruno
Frankly, if people are going to accuse the LGBT community of stifling their free speech, I say we don’t let them post on sites like Queerty. After all, they’ll say we’re doing that whether we are or not, so why subject ourselves to their passive/aggressive, bigoted, uninsightful and substanceless drivel?
Nickadoo1970
If you have to choose between the love of your daughter and God’s love, consider that maybe, just perhaps, God’s an asshole.
MommaM
@Sam: Right on!
getreal
@Nickadoo1970: You don’t have to choose it is not God who is the asshole it is bigots. God created gay people not homophobia human created that. If you someone doesn’t like gay people I say take it up with the manufacturer (God).
Steve
Rep. Biggs could (and should) recognize that her decision is based on prejudice and hate, not on love or morality or anything else. If her religion requires her to harm her own daughter, she should leave that church and not look back. Churches that teach hate and prejudice are not teaching the Word of God. They are using the name of God to make money. The right thing to do is to leave that church, and save her family.
Her prejudice can destroy her family, if she lets it. If she actually casts that vote to harm her own daughter, she may never see her daughter again. In any case, the relationship will be destroyed.
If my own mother did this, she would never see my face again during her life.
longfellow lives
This is truly a sad story. In her testimony, Rep. Biggs admittedly never expressed her opposition to her daughter being a lesbian, and yet, in a public moment, where the entire country could potentially be watching, denounces her daughter. She then uses her religion to justify her betrayal of her own child. She uses her privileged position as a public servant to make a statement that her own child’s right to happiness should be denied. What kind of parent would do this? The hypocrisy is astonishing! The Pharisees are alive and well and living among us.
Rep. Biggs, if you are opposed to the Bill, simply say so, cast your vote. Please don’t abuse your position and my taxpayer dollars (yes, I live in Maine and pay a lot of taxes) to settle some score with your kid. SHAME ON YOU!!
Boo
Someone who can be in an interracial marriage and then turn around and ask, apparently in all sincerity, why White Pride parades would be inherently racist is far too blinded to her own privilege to ever be able to examine her bigotry against homosexuals and bisexuals rationally.
Someone who can, again apparently in all sincerity, believe that the blunt instrument of law should be applied to force others to follow her religious beliefs on marriage and then turn around and accuse others of being intolerant for wanting the freedom to not have to live our lives according to her religious beliefs is completely incapable of both self-reflection and empathy.
MommaM- I’m sure this will all go in one ear and out the other, but what the heck:
The reason we don’t have White Pride parades or Straight Pride parades is because the majority has no legitimate need to celebrate its distinctiveness. Despite your marriage which you seem to love to fling about as proof of something or other, you do appear to have at least some level of residual racism, which you should probably address.
Your opposition to gay marriage and our opposition to your opposition to gay marriage are not equivalent. Legalized gay marriage does not restrict your right to marry the person you love, both because you presumably tend to fall in love with members of the opposite sex and because legalizing gay marriage does not involve outlawing straight marriage. Nonlegalized gay marriage does restrict our rights in marrying the person we love. One side seeks to expand rights, the other seeks to keep them curtailed.
I’m actually curious- would it be possible for you to articulate an argument against same-sex marriage that would not be in essence identical to those used by opponents of interracial marriage? Seriously, try to think of one and let us know what you come up with.
Lastly, you really should stop the whole righteous indignation thing over having been given the fight you came to have. It’s the age old complaint of the privileged: “How DARE you treat me the way I treat you?!”
Paul
She should step down. She has no right to bring her personal beliefs and religion into this.
Von
Glad she doesn’t represent me! Talk about a hypocritical bigot! I feel sorry for her daughter!
blondeboi
This whole topic makes my head hurt…my bf and i have been in a relationship for years and neither of us want or desire marriage in any way…we don’t need or care for the benefits or status change it would bring…because at the end of the day, we still love each other. i know others feel differently, and equality should be just that–equal, and i no doubt support marriage equality for all, but i don’t think i should judge mrs. briggs or her decision. no one knows what is going through her mind except her. one day everything will be okay, so why attack people over it now?
jynnan_tonnyx
MommaM: “Marriage to many, is a sacred union, a commitment to family, a tradition, a ceremony celebrating the union of a man and a woman and the beginning of their walk through life together and the future they promise to share together in raising children and grandchildren etc…BTW marriage is NOT a HUMAN RIGHT”
So in other words…marriage is a deeply meaningful, personal, sacred thing, a pivotal moment in a couple’s life, to be celebrated and cherished and respected…but not everyone deserves to have one.
I guess that’s why I don’t understand anti-gay marriage arguments; I can’t imagine cherishing something so deeply but arbitrarily denying it to certain people based only on their genders.
For the record, I am an unmarried heterosexual who has no interest in getting married as long as it maintains its discriminatory country-club status.
MommaM
@Boo: While I do not have time at the moment to answer your post, I do want to give two short responses.
First, I didn’t actually want to know “why” we don’t have white or straight parades, I was merely pointing out the double standard that exists in the perception of some people’s minds. What would the reaction of other groups be? How vigorously they would “fight” that fact that straights were celebrating their sexual orientation…
Secondly, Your post is a perfect example of how I was approaching this topic. I had an opinion, as you do. I shared said opinion, as you have. You have not called me names, nor did I. I did not cut anyone down as a human being, nor have you. YOu and I may have different sexual orientations and ideas and opinions, but you are a person who has shown respect in your approach, others did not. I was told that my opinion was wrong because it differed from theirs. I was called names, told I was stupid etc..
It seems to me, that if the LGBT community wants change, the only way to effect change is to educate and convince other’s of your views. You do not do this by being an asshole, that only puts the rest of us on the defense and let’s face it, I am straight and it is my demographic that hold the majority of the votes, being a jerk (John, Tank and a few others) will only cause me and others who come into this formum for more insight or conversation, to revert to an even firmer stance against change. It’s sad, honestly I don’t care what anyone does in their bedroom, I do love or dislike people of all types, even if we don’t have the same exact views…but to some, they just want to twist that fact to suit their own purpose and make it into somthing ugly and tht leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. The hostility was completely unjustified.
I came into this forum by accident! I was actually searching for more information on the subject of marriage reform and it brought me here. I thought this might be a good way for me to get some conversation going and maybe enlighten a few people and be enlightened by a few people as to the background of “the other side.” Too bad that is not what happened, not matter how long I tried.
Sorry, gotta run, will answer your last question later.
As Blondeboi said “i don’t think i should judge mrs. briggs or her decision. no one knows what is going through her mind except her. one day everything will be okay, so why attack people over it now?”
John Santos
@MommaM:
First, I didn’t actually want to know “why” we don’t have white or straight parades, I was merely pointing out the double standard that exists in the perception of some people’s minds.
If you don’t understand the function–historically and currently–of Pride Parades, then no amount of education will help you understand.
Historically they were, as many marchers in the seventies stated, marching for those who cannot. Today, we march to remind those that seek to pass laws curtailing our right to exists, that we will not be silent.
What would the reaction of other groups be? How vigorously they would “fight” that fact that straights were celebrating their sexual orientation…
You celebrate it everyday. On television, in movies, by getting married, by joining the military. Clearly you aren’t interested in understanding the “why”; you’re only interested in playing the victim, when you are not.
Secondly, Your post is a perfect example of how I was approaching this topic. I had an opinion, as you do. I shared said opinion, as you have.
No. You came to a gay blog and wrote the following:
It amazes me how many of you on here, preach “free speach” and want others to be “tolerant” of your chosen lifestyle and
opinions and yet, when your thoughts and beliefs are challenged or even merely disagreed with, you attack their religion,
intelligence and THEIR right to believe and live the way THEY do!
You came here looking for a fight. You thought all the gays on this message board would be frightened of some anonymous poster and allow you to spew your intolerance without a challenge. And when you were challenged, you reverted to your tried and true self–an anti-gay bigot trying desperately to justifying here hate.
You’ve claimed repeatedly that we “choose” a “lifestyle”. Yet you expect us to accept your chosen opinions.
YOu and I may have different sexual orientations and ideas and opinions, but you are a person who has shown respect in your approach, others did not.
Why should we show you respect when you write things like this:
I happen to be a mother of a bi-sexual daughter. I love my daughter with all my heart, but she too knows that I do not support anything other than traditional marriage. I hate the fact that I have to even include the word “traditional” in that sentence, because to me…marriage is simply between a man and a woman, period!
You came to our house and disrespected us. You get what you give, sunshine.
I was told that my opinion was wrong because it differed from theirs. I was called names, told I was stupid etc..
You have acted like an imbecile, are you surprised to be treated as such? You haven’t provided a shred of evidence, nor fact to back up your OPINION. Yet you expect us to accept your opinions as fact.
It seems to me, that if the LGBT community wants change,
Who are you to lecture us on change? We have fought decades to get where we are today, without any help from you. You have admitted that you don’t support marriage equality and you voted for Prop 8. Whey should we take the advice of an anti-gay bigot?
the only way to effect change is to educate and convince other’s of your views.
Many posters have tried to educate you, yet you remain steadfast in your intolerance. What you really want us to do, is what you say. Won’t happen.
You do not do this by being an asshole,
You’ve set the standard. We’re simply acting as you have.
that only puts the rest of us on the defense and let’s face it, I am straight and it is my demographic that hold the majority of the votes,
You are only the majority by 3%. When Prop 8 comes up again, you will lose. I appreciate that you believe that you have absolute power over the gay community, but that is not so.
being a jerk (John, Tank and a few others) will only cause me and others who come into this formum for more insight or conversation, to revert to an even firmer stance against change.
I like how you think you can change us with threats. please do come back and bring all your intolerant friends. We will beat you back with sound logic and facts. And like you did last night, you will cut and run. We’ve been dealing with bitches like you for decades. We weren’t afraid of you then; not now; and not tomorrow. BRING IT ON!
It’s sad, honestly I don’t care what anyone does in their bedroom,
Yes you do. that is why you voted against marriage equality; that is why you came to a gay blog and made wild accusations; that is why you continue in your belligerent manner. You can’t stand to see gays happy and would like nothing more than to control our lives.
Get you own life in control, before telling others how to live, missy.
I do love or dislike people of all types, even if we don’t have the same exact views…but to some, they just want to twist that fact to suit their own purpose and make it into somthing ugly and tht leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. The hostility was completely unjustified.
You brought the hostility to this blog by posting this:
I wish the gay community would stop trying to CHANGE the straight community in such huge ways. How about the idea of a
compromise? Why not have the same type of union, but call it something different, “Domestic Union” or something like that?
You were spoiling for a fight and when it was brough to you, you squealed.
I came into this forum by accident! I was actually searching for more information on the subject of marriage reform and it brought me here.
Bullshit. You were doing a search for little Mrs. Briggs in order to justify your own bias towards your daughter, and found this blog and decided to put those gays in their place.
I thought this might be a good way for me to get some conversation going and maybe enlighten a few people
No. You wanted to tell a bunch of gays that YOU are the majority; that marriage is only for straights; that we choose our “lifestyle”; and that you are proudly anti-gay to the point that you reject your own daughter.
and be enlightened by a few people as to the background of “the other side.”
People have tried to educate you, but you wallow in your ignorance proudly.
Too bad that is not what happened, not matter how long I tried.
You haven’t tried to do anything but get into fights.
Sorry, gotta run, will answer your last question later.
Please do come back. I haven’t finished handing your ass to you yet.
J
@MommaM
“How vigorously they would “fight” that fact that straights were celebrating their sexual orientation…”
… I don’t know if gay people would have a problem with a straight pride parade or not to be honest.
But I’m 100% certain that those who oppose gay marriage on religious principle would be equally opposed to a 5 city block orgy even if everyone there is straight.
In fact, can we just assume that people opposed to gay rights are generally anti-sex and thus shouldn’t be invited to any parties?
Jay
MommaM you celebrate straight pride day EVERY DAY
Lori
Talk about a hypocrite and bigot!!!
mainefem
Puuhleeeeze edit the numerous typos in this article.
Firstly, the homophobe’s name is Sheryl.
Yes, her testimony was a disgrace, but take some care in editing!
Boo
“First, I didn’t actually want to know “why” we don’t have white or straight parades, I was merely pointing out the double standard that exists in the perception of some people’s minds. What would the reaction of other groups be? How vigorously they would “fight” that fact that straights were celebrating their sexual orientation…”
MommaM- again, the fact that you continue to make these kinds of arguments bespeaks of how blinded you are to your own privilege. Black Pride is not equivalent to White Pride. Try to get this, seriously: THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE NEED FOR THE MAJORITY TO CARVE OUT NICHES. We don’t need white pride because we have never been taught to feel white shame. You don’t need straight pride because there aren’t people who make a career out of publically calling straights an abomination against God to the heartfelt Amens of millions.
“I did not cut anyone down as a human being”
Yes, you did. When you oppose equality for your fellow human beings, you cut us all down as human beings.
“I was told that my opinion was wrong because it differed from theirs. I was called names, told I was stupid etc..”
Well, you need to expect a certain pushback when you make ludicrously hypocritical arguments such as this:
“I wish the gay community would stop trying to CHANGE the straight community in such huge ways.”
No one is trying to CHANGE the straight community. What you really mean is that gay people being able to marry will make it harder for anti-gay straight people such as yourself to feel you are intrinsically superior by having access to something which we do not. In other words, by this statement you are saying that you do not value marriage for itself, but for the way you feel it can illustrate your privileged status above homosexuals. You may not have used cuss words to express it, but that is an EXTREMELY ugly opinion.
And the thing is, everyone has a limit. When you grow up L or G or B or T or whatever, and you hear this ugliness every day, and you see the smug, self-satisfied smiles of the ugliness-purveyers as they bask in their certainty that, oh of course they’re not spewing hate, no no, it’s their victims who are the real bad guys, well, some people just eventually lose patience. Frankly, sometimes I’m amazed that gay people haven’t rioted in every major city in North America.
MommaM
@J: I do not know for sure, but personally I do not take part in casual sex (not for religious reasons), so yes…an orgy to me is inappropriate. I know you or someone else will take that little tidbit and run with it, twist it into something that suits their purpose, but oh well. When I mentioned that my husband and I split due to his infidelity, there were comments about how that wasn’t “abuse”…it is comments like that, which cause me to believe that some people just shouldn’t get married no matter what their orientation. IMO
Joanaroo
All I can say is Momma M gives all overweight straight women in their 40s a bad name. Just damn glad I’m not religious and ignorant!
Crunchy
More than anything, I feel sorry for this lady. 10, 25, or 50 years from now, when we’ve gotten past our perverse need to control other people’s personal lives and marginalize people who don’t fit our own limited notion of normalcy, her actions here will just seem sad. I suspect she’ll live to regret what she did here, and be thankful that her peers in the Maine legislature knew better.
MommaM
@Joanaroo: I am not religious, had you known how to comprehend anything I wrote regarding religion, you would know that. I am not ignorant, in fact, my IQ is over 160. Just because I do not prescribe to your type of sex or even your belief that you deserve to be given exactly what you want, the way you want it, just because you are having a temper tanturm, doesn’t make me a bad person. You want the “rights”, but you won’t lay off the title of “marriage”…too bad. Even if you gain the right to call it marriage, do you honestly believe society will look at the LGBT Ccommunity as the same as straights? Really? Many of you are fighting for semantics! Who the fuck cares if the majority of the population of this country want to keep marriage the way it is currently? If the straight community can bend and see that just because our sexual orientation is different, we are ALL human and deserve the same rights, why can’t you understand that marriage between a man and woman is sacred and we will protect it! You weren’t so into tradtion when you decided to have a same sex relationship, why fuss over it now? I call BULLSHIT!
Boo
MommaM- your last comment proves everything I’ve said. The really sad thing is, you made a mess of your own marriage, and it’s highly doubtful you’ll get another given your demographics and the anger and bitterness you’ve displayed here, so all you’re left with is clinging to the idea that your theoretically having access to marriage gives you the ability, as a bitter, lonely person, to feel superior to gay people in committed, healthy relationships.
As before, you claim you want to “protect” marriage between a man and a woman, while having yet to demonstrate exactly how giving gay people access to the institution harms straight people’s marriages. You’re like a small child who feels special for getting an ice cream cone, then throws it on the floor when she finds out her sister got one too. Actually, you’re worse than that because the small child would presumably be having to share a finite amount of ice cream, whereas marriage licenses aren’t something that can run out.
Grow up.
longfellow lives
did you read that everyone? Blondboi and bf have a good groove going so we should all stop our struggle for equal protection under the law! More importantly, Mr. Boi, I am absolutely within my rights to “judge” Representative Briggs regardless of what’s going on in her mind as my tax dollars are paying for the priviledge she’s accepted to stand on the floor of my statehouse and speak her mind. That she chooses to use that priviledge to shamefully admonish her own daughter in public is, well, shameful. As for Mommam, this is the point at which we stop arguing and let her desperation shine through. She is on the wrong side of history’s momentum and she knows it. We couldn’t ask for a better argument in our favor.
John Santos
@MommaM:
I am not religious, had you known how to comprehend anything I wrote regarding religion, you would know that.
I though you weren’t going to respond to me any more? Like I said, you’re desperate for attention. Sad.
I am not ignorant, in fact, my IQ is over 160.
Why do right-wingers insist on bragging about their brains and degrees and education and work? Who are you trying to impress–me, or yourself?
Just because I do not prescribe to your type of sex or even your belief that you deserve to be given exactly what you want, the way you want it, just because you are having a temper tanturm, doesn’t make me a bad person.
The only person flying off the handle here is you, sunshine.
You want the “rights”, but you won’t lay off the title of “marriage”…too bad.
As long as ALL Americans are protected by the constitution of these united States, we will fight for equality. Get used to it.
Even if you gain the right to call it marriage, do you honestly believe society will look at the LGBT Ccommunity as the same as straights?
The majority of Americans already favor recognition of marriage equality. You are in the minority.
Really?
Yes, really.
Many of you are fighting for semantics!
So are you. Don’t you even see your own absurdity?
Who the fuck cares if the majority of the population of this country want to keep marriage the way it is currently?
When equality is taken away from only a certain segment of society, everyone should care.
If the straight community can bend and see that just because our sexual orientation is different, we are ALL human and deserve the same rights, why can’t you understand that marriage between a man and woman is sacred and we will protect it!
If we deserve the same rights, why do you support “separate-but-equal” You keep claiming we are the same and have the same rights, yet you clearly want a different definition for people you don’t agree with.
You weren’t so into tradtion when you decided to have a same sex relationship, why fuss over it now?
There is noting untraditional about loving other people. What is not traditional, is inequality and the support of second class status.
I call BULLSHIT!
Make sure you do that while looking in the mirror.
macscruff
@Crunchy: Well Said Crunchy.
MommaM
@Boo: Actually, my last post proved nothing for you. The only thing you did, was try to cut me down to make yourself feel superior!
You have no knowledge of my marriage, which again, lasted 17 years (longer if you count the time before we were married). How many people anywhere, my age or even 10 years older, can say they have had a monogamous relationship spanning that length of time? Can you? I doubt it! You have no basis on which to “judge” my marriage, nor me even though you really want to.
Since my divorce, I have been in a long term relationship with my bf of almost 8 years. I don’t think my demographics has hurt me one bit.
Through all of this back and forth bullshit, NO ONE has been able or willing to answer my last question! NO ONE! The only answer I get is “because we want it, whaaaaaah!”
Here it is again, if anyone cares to attempt it:
If the straight community can bend and see that just because our sexual orientation is different, we are ALL human and deserve the same rights, why can’t you understand that marriage between a man and woman is sacred and we will protect it! You weren’t so into tradtion when you decided to have a same sex relationship, why fuss over it now? I call BULLSHIT!
I would sincerely love to hear from someone that can honestly answer that question, without diluting it by being attacking or changing the subject and openly acknowledge that gay sexual practices are not traditionally or currently viewed as “the norm.”
That’s my challenge!
MommaM
I think I’m going to name my asshole “John Santos.”
If Mama Was Married
@MommaM: I think no one feels the need to answer your question, because it’s moot.
First and foremost, you say that the straight community must “bend” in order to see that “we are ALL human and deserve the same rights” — do you see how ridiculous that statement is? Straights really have to BEND in order to see that we’re equal? Don’t you see that being viewed as equal shouldn’t require any bending, thinking, worrying or hesitating. You’re proving the points above that the straight community (or at least the straight community that won’t accept same-sex marriage) is viewing things in a twisted perspective, and they have to bend to see things clearly! This “twisted perspective” could also be labeled a bigoted perspective — because it is not seeing the simple truth for how it stands, but instead allowing one’s personal feelings color his or her perspective.
But to attempt to answer your question with a question of my own: Just because I am in a same-sex relationship, *why* do I have to lower my expectations for getting married? Just because it’s not “traditional”? You do realize that by virtue of something being a “tradition,” it’s not always a good thing, right? American traditions in the past have included slavery, segregation, gender bias, exploitation of workers, etc. You ask, “why fuss over it now” like it’s not a big deal, which is offensive to me. You know marriage is a big deal, you’ve been stating it over and over again in this thread — why should I just shrug it off? Because you say so? Because I’m not like you? Again, you’re veering your comments directly into traditional definitions of bigotry and discrimination. And *that* is why I won’t give up on demanding marriage for me and my partner — because there is no reason for us NOT to be married. At least, no reason that can’t be dismissed by bigotry.
TANK
Your IQ is over 160? WOw, you’re like einstein if he were actually retarded and lied about his IQ being over 160…
TANK
@longfellow lives:
Well, he is blonde…and while it is true that they have more fun (so I’ve heard, as I’m carrot), they’re also really stupid.
John Santos
@MommaM:
The only thing you did, was try to cut me down to make yourself feel superior!
All you’ve done sine you came here was post comments on how straights and your marriages are superior to gays and our marriages.
You have no knowledge of my marriage,
But I’m sure we all pity your husband.
which again, lasted 17 years (longer if you count the time before we were married).
Long enough to have a bisexual daughter that you would disown 16 years later.
How many people anywhere, my age or even 10 years older, can say they have had a monogamous relationship spanning that length of time? Can you? I doubt it!
I’m only 31, but I’ve been with the same man for 5 years. One of my best friends has been with his now husband, since 1958–51 years, you silly cow.
The question you need to be asking, is how have gay men manged to maintain relations in a society that until recently, made our lives illegal. You won’t ask that question because you would have to admit that gays were not at fault, that straights were our oppressors. Even though we had to hide our love away, we still managed to find each other and build lasting relationships–with no help from you.
You have no basis on which to “judge” my marriage, nor me even though you really want to.
All i know is you’re a pathetic Divorcée who bitterly trolls gay blogs in order to chastise gays. You hate the fact that you can’t find a man, yet here we all are with men in our lives. it must drive you batty knowing we have what you squandered and most likely, will never have again–a loving man.
Since my divorce, I have been in a long term relationship with my bf of almost 8 years.
So why don’t you spend less time here and ore time with him? I’m sure he’s pleased that you spend your free time telling gays not to marry, rather than with him.
I don’t think my demographics has hurt me one bit.
But your lousy personality has.
Through all of this back and forth bullshit, NO ONE has been able or willing to answer my last question! NO ONE! The only answer I get is “because we want it, whaaaaaah!”
And you haven’t provided one piece of evidence to back up all your numerous OPINIONS. Until you can show that gay marriage will cause you problems, your opinions is not worth a damn.
Here it is again, if anyone cares to attempt it:
You have not answered one single question that has been put to you. How dare you come to our blog and demand we answer to you.
If the straight community can bend and see that just because our sexual orientation is different,
The straight community never bent. We had to march, go to court, protest and sue to get every little bit of freedom we enjoy today. it did not happen over night, it took decades for us to arrive here today. You have done nothing for us.
we are ALL human and deserve the same rights,
You believe we deserve certain rights. Not “the same rights” as you claim; but a another level–a lower level–of rights that will only apply to us and no one else. that is not the same, that is quite different.
why can’t you understand that marriage between a man and woman is sacred and we will protect it!
If it was so sacred, why do straights like you divorce and remarry everyday? If you believe marriage is sacred, you would still be married and not living in sin with a man who is not your husband.
You weren’t so into tradtion when you decided to have a same sex relationship, why fuss over it now?
And you weren’t into tradition when you decided to shack up with your lover, rather than get married.
I call BULLSHIT!
Again, I hope you do so while looking in your mirror.
I would sincerely love to hear from someone that can honestly answer that question,
Please see above.
without diluting it by being attacking or changing the subject
All your answers a re located above.
and openly acknowledge that gay sexual practices are not traditionally or currently viewed as “the norm.”
You are a minority in your opinion, cupcake.
That’s my challenge!
Tis been met and vanquished.
I think I’m going to name my asshole “John Santos.”
I was going to name my douchebag MommaM, but someone beat me to it.
MommaM
@If Mama Was Married: Awww, you created a screen name just for me!!! How sweet!
FYI…No one CAN answer my question directly and no one HAS! No one has met the challenge.
There are physiological differences in the brains of addicts, as there are for, say, gay men. Should we change the drunk driving laws and make them more relaxed for everyone, just because a select few over-indulge? Personally, I think that is a ridiculous idea. But I’ll be damned if it isn’t similar!
You want me to say I am a bigot? OK, you got it!
I don’t believe same sex relationships are the way nature/higher power/God/whatever intended.
I do believe you have a right to have sex with whatever/whomever you want to as long as they are consenting. Here is where it gets tricky…I don’t want to see it in my or my children’s everyday lives. I don’t want it to affect their education, scout leaders should not be gay, priests and ministers should not be gay and children in the system should go to straight married couples first, single straight people second and so forth!
I know many adopted children and they have enough problems dealing with being adopted into straight families who are functional and don’t need the added problems associated with having two daddies or two mommies and not having the basic human right of having a parent of each sex so that they can grow up with the best possible circumstance.
Don’t get me wrong, I think a gay couple is totally capable and willing to love a child, but they are incapable of fulfilling the needs of a child in a well rounded way. This is a basic, intrinsic need of any child!!!!
When you bring marriage into the homosexual topic, you also open up a huge can of worms for the future of our children. Not just mine, everyone’s. There are far too many ramifications we see now and ones we cannot see yet, that will harm the majority of the people in ways we can’t even begin to fathom.
I am sooo tired of having alternative lifestyles shoved in my face and the faces of my children and their friends and anyone else’s kids, that go against what I and countless others like me, believe is right.
Mark my words, in the future, we will begin to see beastiality becomming mainstream because we are subjecting ourselves to more and more extremem sexual perversions every day and I for one, won’t sit still and let that happen!!!
The Earth and all it’s inhabitants are going to hell in a hand basket and most of what is wrong in all ways, is that we have gone soooo far away from the way nature intended everything to be!!! This is a proven fact!
If Mama Was Married
@MommaM: Finally! You came out and said what you’ve been denying all along — you do NOT think we are equal to you, you think we are a perversion of nature, and you think that we are causing the earth and its inhabitants to go to hell. You’re finally being honest with us and with yourself about why you are here. You have been pretending to be someone that you are not in the name of showing the gays how even a tolerant person doesn’t believe in same sex marriage, but you are NOT TOLERANT. Thanks for owning up to the truth.
John Santos
@MommaM:
FYI…No one CAN answer my question directly and no one HAS! No one has met the challenge.
Your question has been answered. You don’t like the answer, so you ignore it. But the answer remains.
There are physiological differences in the brains of addicts, as there are for, say, gay men.
Proof please.
Should we change the drunk driving laws and make them more relaxed for everyone, just because a select few over-indulge?
Drunk driving kills thousands every year. Being gay does not. No one is born an alcoholic. Gay people are born. Your argument is facile and absurd.
Personally, I think that is a ridiculous idea. But I’ll be damned if it isn’t similar!
Then you are damned because it is not similar. I find it appalling that you were able to get into an institution of higher learning to study psychology with such an inept thought process, and such lack luster debating skills. You should have stuck with cutting hair.
You want me to say I am a bigot? OK, you got it!
Nice to see you admit the obvious.
I don’t believe same sex relationships are the way nature/higher power/God/whatever intended.
And I don’t believe that people should be able to get divorced all willy-nilly. Yet you indulged in that. The bible forbids it. But like most, you cherry pick what tenets of the bible you will follow; preaching the ones that damn those you oppose, ignoring those that damn you.
I do believe you have a right to have sex with whatever/whomever you want to as long as they are consenting.
Oh how kind of you. Can we drink from the same fountains as you too?
Here is where it gets tricky…I don’t want to see it in my or my children’s everyday lives.
Where are you or your children seeing people having sex? Did your kids see you and your ex-husband kissing and hugging? Do you show affection in public? Did you have your wedding in public? Straight people shove their sexuality down everyone else’s throats every day.
I don’t want it to affect their education,
You want you children to grow up ignorant? You want your children to learn about sexuality in the street? you want gay children to be left out of the education process? i thought you cared about kids. Since you disavowed your own bisexual daughter, it’s clear you only care about straight kids.
scout leaders should not be gay,
And why not? Should Scout leaders also not be Asian? Or women? Or old, or too young?
priests and ministers should not be gay
And why not? Children would be safer, since all the people who molested those kids were straight.
and children in the system should go to straight married couples first, single straight people second and so forth!
So, you think kids should go where it’s politically correct to go, rather than going somewhere where they will be loved? You would rather a child go to a single parent home, than a home with two loving parents?
I know many adopted children and they have enough problems dealing with being adopted into straight families who are functional and don’t need the added problems associated with having two daddies or two mommies and not having the basic human right of having a parent of each sex so that they can grow up with the best possible circumstance.
And yet you don’t know any kids who have grown up in families with two dads, or moms. But you make broad sweeping generalizations without all the facts. Typical. It’s people like you who make lives difficult for kids with same-sex parents because of your bigotry.
Secondly, where is it stated that it is a human right to have opposite sex parents? What about kids with one parent–like yourself? Are you a lousy parent because rather than your children having a father, they have your boyfriend? Do you see the hypocritical stance you are taking?
Your kids had opposite sex parents and yet you are a Divorcée who rejects her daughter because of something she was born with. Is that “the best possible circumstance” that you seek?
Don’t get me wrong,
Too late.
I think a gay couple is totally capable and willing to love a child, but they are incapable of fulfilling the needs of a child in a well rounded way. This is a basic, intrinsic need of any child!!!!
You are so stupid! You have no idea what you are talking about, yet you keep yammering on and on. Prove that being raised in a same-sex home is bad for kids, I dare you to. Because I can prove that this is not bad for kids, you sill cow.
When you bring marriage into the homosexual topic, you also open up a huge can of worms for the future of our children.
If you cared about your kids, you would not be divorced and you would not have rejected your bisexual daughter. You are the very last person who should be lecturing on what’s right for kids.
Not just mine, everyone’s.
Worry about your own kids. If you have enough time to worry about other people’s kids, then clearly you are not spending enough time with your own family.
There are far too many ramifications we see now
What? List those ramifications that we can see now.
and ones we cannot see yet, that will harm the majority of the people in ways we can’t even begin to fathom.
Pathetic. Now she can see into the future!
I am sooo tired of having alternative lifestyles shoved in my face and the faces of my children and their friends and anyone else’s kids, that go against what I and countless others like me, believe is right.
No one is shoving anything in your fat face, sunshine. You went looking for trouble and found it. You invaded a gay blog and wrote trash about people you don’t know. We didn’t come to you, you came looking for us. People like you love to shove your nose in everyone’s business because your life is so sad and empty. You get a thrill out of telling others what to do.
Mark my words, in the future, we will begin to see beastiality becomming mainstream because we are subjecting ourselves to more and more extremem sexual perversions every day and I for one, won’t sit still and let that happen!!!
People like you ruined marriage. People like us are trying to save it. You rape kids; rape adults; have sex with animals; sell children into prostitution; sell women into prostitution; and generally exploit humanity. If the world is de-evolving, it’s because of people like you.
The Earth and all it’s inhabitants are going to hell in a hand basket and most of what is wrong in all ways, is that we have gone soooo far away from the way nature intended everything to be!!! This is a proven fact!
A proven fact? Then prove it. Provide your evidence to back up your ridiculous arguments. Until you do you are a liar.
The world in in trouble because silly cows like you run around getting divorced; rejecting your kids; blaming your failures on gay men and your weight.
TANK
But I’ll be damned if it isn’t similar!
Then you’ll be damned.
TANK
this momma person wouldn’t dare have this converstaion with her “psychology professors” (I don’t even know if she’s in school) or with her classmates. She probably thinks she’ll be silenced by the “gay agenda” rather than shut up with facts…either way, she knows that in real life, most educated people won’t put up with her raving bigotry.
TANK
@TANK:
or rather, she’d probably blame it on the “liberal agenda” the rightwing is always accusing higher education of promoting. Anything and everything but reflect on her beliefs…and think for herself, and realize that it’s not others, it’s her.
Boo
@MommaM:
You have no knowledge of my marriage, which again, lasted 17 years (longer if you count the time before we were married). How many people anywhere, my age or even 10 years older, can say they have had a monogamous relationship spanning that length of time? Can you? I doubt it! You have no basis on which to “judge” my marriage, nor me even though you really want to.
I have the knowledge you have revealed here: It was interracial, it failed, you are bitter, and you display racist tendencies.
If the straight community can bend and see that just because our sexual orientation is different, we are ALL human and deserve the same rights, why can’t you understand that marriage between a man and woman is sacred and we will protect it! You weren’t so into tradtion when you decided to have a same sex relationship, why fuss over it now? I call BULLSHIT!
Because I can’t understand what you think you are protecting marriage from. Please explain EXACTLY how gay people marrying threatens marriage between a man and a woman. See earlier remark about small child throwing ice cream to the floor because her sister gets some too. It’s a shame your feelings about marriage are so shallow.
You want me to say I am a bigot? OK, you got it!
Yes dear, we all had that figured out after your first post. Owning your bigotry is the first step to healing.
macscruff
Mamma is scared, thats all. She is clinging to her cross and feeling the ground under feet shift. She will accept change but it’s hard for her.
Her religion is dying out and it’s the last solid thing she has. If she would just let go and find peace she would be ok.
So people, be patient with her. She is a dying breed and will eventually lose and fade away. Then perhaps we can grow spiritually as a society and evolve as we have technically.
Pish Tush
@MommaM: No one is asking for your consent. Just leave YOUR relgion out of laws that affect MY life, and stop preventing me from MY pursuit of happiness, and equal rights. Maybe let’s go back to the TRADITION when women couldn’t vote. How fair would that be?
This is America, and you can practice your religion just as I can practice mine…wait, except if I’m gay, then, sorry, your religion trumps mine. Hypocrite.
Pish Tush
@MommaM: And no one wants change the STRAIGHTS. It’s one big community, all deserving of the same dream.
triodad
I don’t know about you hippie castro-loving poupon-eating global warming hoaxer america hating liberals, but in my family it’s career first–screw the kids!
ps
This is just indescribably sad. I hope that someday she will be able to earn her daughter’s forgiveness.
Zakyluv
@alan brickman: I am not one to take to name-calling or hate-spewing but this lady is saying double-standards and paradoxes left and right. The Bible (yes i dignify the Bible with capitalization) is just a book that a priest sprinkled water on and said”now its better than any other book” I went to a catholic school for thirteen years and went to church twice a week and now i am a strong gay activist. I have read the Bible, The Catechism, and the Magisterium. Every one of those books says to embrace homosexuals and teach them love and compassion. I respect there opinions no matter how wrong they are.