I’ve probably played even more military men than Patrick [Stewart]. Gandalf is a soldier, Magneto is a soldier, Richard III, Coriolanus, Macbeth. And I think the reason is because I want my revenge on them all…The people who start wars, perpetuate them and glory in them. ‘God save our gracious Queen, send her victorious?’ I’m sorry. What does that mean?… If that’s what masculinity is then I don’t want any part of it at all…. I think gay men are more masculine than straight men. Because, guess what? They love other men!…So when bully boys say: ‘Faggot!’ you say, ‘That’s right, I’m with the boys.’””Sir Ian McKellen, in an interview with The Evening Standard, in which he talks about his proclivity towards warrior roles.
ingyaom
Sometimes.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
Great actor, maybe. But great intellectual he ain’t.
amanaplan
Not sure which one is worse.
1) Gandalf hating Gandalf.
or
2) Terribly simplistic advice to young children in a dangerous situation.
ErikO
Sometimes in rare cases yes, other times no. In my experience the majority of bisexual men are extremely masculine while most gay men and even a lot of hetero men nowadays are not.
Billy Budd
He is just trying to say we can be very butch. There is a whole spectrum of gays inside the human spectrum. I have absolutely nothing against Ts or fems. I love them. But my dick gets hard for masculine men like myself. And they are abundant over here, I can assure you.
Sluggo2007
If he’s referring to “strength,” then he’s absolutely correct. Gay men can handle much more complex and difficult situations than straight men, thereby making them more masculine. In my experience, most of the straight men I know are actually pussies.
Stilinski26
I think todays Gay men physcially looks more masculine than straight men! The stereotype of gay men definitely changed.
Sukhrajah
@Sluggo2007:
LADY! The language! It sent me clutching for my pearls.
I do however get what you are saying. In my anecdoatal experiences – because many gay men have have to also compartmentalize their experiences through a ‘gay’ filter – it added to a sense an element of depth (having to survive the hate, the injustice, and live with it all – most cases silently) the mainstream (read; straight) culture did not have to develop. In one way, part of our experiential core was challenged, stressed, and sussed out – in most cases challenged, developed and adapted (in some cases, beautifully and powerfully into being proud, Out, Gay, Liberated Men).
Alot of straight men, never have to experience the closet. I wonder if having to experience it would have made them stronger. I would never wish it on them though – it is the most harrowing experience many of us will ever face.
Adding to the point of us adapting with that challenge of strength in our masculinity – personally I see masculinity as a mask, an image – yet another ideal that no one has cemented or fully defined. What is the ideal Man? Not Even God wants to share that secret. As men who have had that idea of their masculinity challenged – and having to deal with and live in that challenge – we’ve developed two different techniques. We see masculinity as an ideal, and we understand that we can add, or detract from that with choices (to grow a beard, to work out, to speak in a certain manner et al). In many ways, we have learned to play with that part, and can adapt it at will. We, by definition, enjoy the medium being used (as we objectified differing ideals of men over the ages – with one constant – homos like men…) – and this is just another cast that we have put up.
The reality is that gay men are not more ‘masculine’ than straight men. We are likely more emotionally compelex, and so more emotionally capable. We are likely better capable of understanding the nuances of male bodies, the male spirit and the male form – it’s our defining feature. We are likely more capable to dealing with ‘insurmountable odds’ – pick a topic – and the vast majority of us have lived under, survived, and now look at us; owning their concepts, and literally fucking it.
It’s a complex, and beautiful topic. Here’s an idea – why doesn’t SI
Bauhaus
Many straight men I know have a rigid and fragile sense of their masculinity, which I don’t find masculine at all.
Nothing more masculine than male-male coupling.
adamnfool
@Sukhrajah:
Very well put, but I think your comment was cut off at the end.
I think we lose sight of the forest for the trees by getting too deep into what is “masculine.” It can’t be truly defined and in the end it’s a misdirection from truth. Be whoever you are, or if that’s too much of an after school special…. be whoever you want to be… and don’t worry how you fit in to societies spectrum. There’s far more interesting questions in life to wonder about in the end.
That being said, gay men do indeed have to adapt to a more complicated universe than our straights counterparts, and outsiders generally make more interesting people. If strength is what Sir McKellen is referring to… then yes… most of us have survived a trial by fire, a sink or swim self identity struggle against the world and its expectations.
adamnfool
@Sukhrajah:
“We are likely more capable to dealing with ‘insurmountable odds””.
The higher rate of gay teen suicide compared to the rest of the population though indicates that some don’t make it past the challenge to get to be self confident adults. How do you convince the alone and isolated of their inner strength and a happy ending without Cerebro?