One guy is over being “vanilla-shamed” by kinksters, and he took to Reddit to urge his fellow gays to live and let live.
This user starts his post by saying he’s been chatting with a lot of kinky guys lately. He says he’s down for those kinks from time to time and that kinksters are “very welcome” in his world.
“Sadly, no one seems to reciprocate that openness when I say that I prefer ‘vanilla’ stuff,” he says. “Like, I just prefer simple foreplay and regular sex. [I] don’t feel the need to push further. But when I tell guys this, they alwaysrespond negatively.”
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The Redditor then shares an example: a recent chat in which a guy said the Redditor “must be boring.”
He went on:
[It’s] not the first time I’ve been called that, or “lame” or “basic” or “dull” or “bad in bed” or whatever else. Hell, some have claimed I shamed them because I said I prefer vanilla, because apparently not sharing his interests is ‘shaming’ now. Folks, this needs to stop. Not everyone’s gonna want what you want, and you’re not being shamed just because they don’t prefer what you prefer. I see a lot of people get furious over kink-shaming (and rightly so), but refuse to do the same for vanilla-shaming. I thought sex positivity was supposed to be about being open to everyone, not just some. Forget kink-shaming, how about no shaming period?
Commenters empathized with this vanilla-leaning guy.
“Just tell them to get a grip,” one wrote. “This is coming from a serious kinkster, by the way. But kinkster or not, the bigger issue I see on Grindr and other apps is guys wanting to push their sexual way of thinking on other people, else be branded defective somehow.”
Another kinkster commenter said he keeps “vanilla” as another tool in his toolbox. “I don’t think younger kinksters know this, but it used to be recommended for people into BDSM to also regularly engage in vanilla to keep everything grounded and to strengthen the relationship alongside the power dynamic.”
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And a different commenter speculated that people “confuse hot passionate vanilla sex with lay-there-like-a-starfish boring sex.”
One Redditor, meanwhile, said he too was mostly vanilla but sex-positive and “GGG” — i.e. Dan Savage’s term for someone who is good in bed, giving of equal time and equal pleasure, and game for anything within reason. “A lot of online kinksters really don’t hesitate to shame vanilla people,” that user wrote. “I think respect and consideration should go both ways. I go out of my way not to kink-shame or look like I’m kink-shaming, so please don’t call me boring.”
Perhaps another Redditor put it best: “Everyone should just be open and honest about what they like and want and respect other people enough to let them be who they are.”
ingyaom
If you think about it, vanilla is actually a pretty exotic flavor.
BerlinQueen
Lol, it is, it’s from the Veracruz area in Mexico, so it would be exotic to some.
kevininbuffalo
Really, this is an issue?
Creamsicle
It’s not. It’s just a reddit post that the writer found and decided to summarize. It’s not a top post, nor a particularly interesting discussion, it’s just a random reddit post.
Roy Ajax
I don’t like seeing people with their “kink” on display, all the time. It seems like they have nothing else going for them in life except THAT.
Cam
Yeah, but to be fair, you also hate anything LGBTQ and are always on here defending bigots and attacking the victims of bigotry.
cubcmh
Shaming is *so* 20th century. It’s the 21st century, people! The only shaming acceptable now is “Shame-shaming”.
Chrisk
I always say I’m a hot vanilla.
rray63
You use the right vanilla beans, AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jon in Canada
Be who you are, from Vanilla to the wildest of kinks, it’s what we fought for and continue to do so; the right to be ourselves without judgment or condemnation. You do you, because it’s your right.
BerlinQueen
Well put, that’s why Canada is becoming a sanctuary and the us is losing many of its sane people.
barryaksarben
be sex positive – all sex. I may not enjoy wht you do but I will defend to the death your right to enjoy it
BerlinQueen
Well put!
justgeo
That we are respectful and do what both like/love is more important than a lable otherwise just be a breeder!
RandomGuy
As a fellow Vanilla guy, I’ve also had kinky guys say things to me like “you don’t know what you’re missing” or “you’re being heteronormative” and how that word applies to kink I have no clue but some kinky guys are pushy and rude when you tell them you like regular Vanilla sex.
1898
what even is “vanilla” anyway?
am i vanilla if i dont want to have my intestines rearranged by someone’s fist?
am i vanilla if i’d rather not wear a dog mask and a dog tail and would rather not be kept in a kennel?
it seems like the way we measure “vanilla” and “kinky” has shifted pretty dramatically in the past few years. kinks that were considered extreme/taboo 10 years ago are a lot more widely accepted now — and that’s all well and good, but it doesn’t mean those of us who are into less-extreme kinks should now be considered room temperature vanilla pudding. and, of course, it doesn’t mean that non-kinky people are boring or bad in bed
Aaron
As a vanilla person, I know people with kinks face way more hate than vanilla people. This post is so up it’s own ass lol
Cam
Whenever someone says “as a….” it usually means they aren’t that.
yendor808
Vanilla, kink, role playing, whatever. What does it matter? It’s a personal choice what each of us are into. I’m pretty open, versatile and depending on my mood or the man I’m with can make it vary a great deal. I often find that each man can sometimes bring out different things in me. So I’ve never categorized or limited my gay sexuality in one specific way. We get judged more than enough by right-wingers, repubtards, evangelicals and religious fanatics of all kinds that are completely obsessed by what gay men do with their genitals. So can’t we just cut the judgement amongst ourselves and respect one another’s way of expressing our own sexuality as consenting adults, whatever it might be. Of course during C-19 I haven’t been having any man-to-man action. If it weren’t for internet porn I’d run outside and throw myself into oncoming traffic.
missvamp
As hardcore, life long kinkster & lifestyle educator- I don’t vanilla shame anyone. We just aren’t going to click in the bedroom- it’s that simple.
WindChime
This kinky sex stuff is harmful and appeals to the dark side of human nature. Any sane and decent person will not allow himself to sink so low just to satisfy their lusty and shameful carnal desire.
GlobeTrotter
One of my best friends is into hard core fisting and scat, basically his idea of sex is the exact opposite of mine. He has sex parties a few times a month where they set up a sling in his living room. Sometimes he sends me shocking, unsolicited photos of their weekend adventures, so that now I’m very careful never to open one of his emails or text messages at work. As a mental health profession, I can safely say that sex in the gay community (I’m not sure about the hetero community) has shifted to drastic extremes over the past 10 to 15 years or so. Things that were considered deviant behavior just a few years ago are now all pretty common in mainstream porn. Lately it seems I belong to an increasingly small minority of guys that strongly object to fisting, ass to mouth, spitting, etc., at least that’s my impression from internet forum discussions on these topics.
In my professional opinion as a therapist, the practice of fisting, ATM, spitting, etc., or what some euphemistically refer to as “kink” or “raunch”, fit the clinical definition of addiction and a lot of the men who indulge in this behavior would fit the clinical definition of addicts. Unfortunately for them, and for us as the gay community, this behavior of boundless, unlimited, everything is possible type of sexual activity is a slippery slope, meaning it never brings any true satisfaction. This causes the men that indulge in this behavior to push to further and further extremes in a desperate bid for satisfaction, which never really ever gets fulfilled. And so they slip further down the slope of addiction, not unlike drug addicts. And that’s the thing with kink/raunch – once you start, you can never really stop. You demand more and more extremes, but that void never really gets filled. And that’s why we need boundaries. That doesn’t mean boring, vanilla sex, but boundaries are necessary all the same to prevent us from slipping into addiction and indulging in meaningless acts of desperation.
WindChime
What a wretched and contemptible man your friend is! It abhors me that lots of gays indulge in such beastly behaviors.
Donston
There’s a lot of judgement and assumptions here. Firstly, what you see on Grindr or in chat rooms or in porn is never gonna reflect the majority. There is so much diversity among dudes who are homosexual, gay identifying, homoromantic/homo commitment, legit into dudes, whatever. There is very little consistency when it comes to lifestyle, ambitions or tastes. So, using a couple of sources or few people to broad-stroke is always gonna be a mistake. Yes, developing certain paraphiliacs or fetishes can be connected to traumas or addictive instincts or contradictions or mental health struggles. That is an uncomfortable thing many of us don’t want to admit or talk about. But that isn’t always the case. While there are plenty of folks who are into kinky shit, but it hardly takes over their lives and relationships. There’s a conversation to be had. But your perspective is mired by assumptions, broad-stroking and shaming.
GlobeTrotter
@WindChime: Well, this friend has been a good friend in deed, so I find it difficult to tell him to stop. I know, it’s a weakness that I struggle with. He once sent me a pic of his fist elbow deep in some guys ass with feces running down his arm. For the life of me, I can’t understand what pleasure he gains from this activity. But woe be to anyone who speaks out against fisting – you end up being the intolerant prude!
*Sorry if I grossed anyone out with this post, but it’s a reality I actually had to experience.
Walker
This stuff gets posted with no problem nd my comment sits “awaiting moderation” for 26 hours…
Extec
If two guys can experience the joy and closeness of great sex, vanilla, kink, or otherwise, and do it safely, let’s support them in this difficult time.
Wishing you all health and happiness this holiday season. 🙂
1898
i’m not sure how one can “safely” have an entire arm in their butt. human anatomy isn’t compatible with that. not trying to shame anyone, i just dont think its a good idea to have your internal organs manhandled like that
Donston
It doesn’t really matter if you think it’s a good or bad idea. If it’s legal then you don’t have any say-so. Furthermore, none of these kinks, fetishes, paraphiliacs are anything new. Fisting, in particular, is old as hell.
Sex is still really attached to ego and sociology. And people (particularly guys) still use sex to “prove” something to people. I just wish in general we became indifferent to other people’s sexual behaviors. If we accepted sexuality as a person by person thing, which it is, then we won’t keep having these divisions or tendencies to shame or pressure one another.
WindChime
Donston, beastly, reckless, and hazardous behaviors among gay men need to brought to the light, examined, criticized, and/or banned. If those low lives cannot be persuaded to change their disgusting behaviors, maybe they should be put away and quarantined.
GlobeTrotter
1898, WindChime, I agree! The current Zeitgeist has done a fantastic job convincing society that every behavior and every opinion is equally valid, as long as it feels right to the individual (relativism). There are no more objective truths and facts – everyone is now allowed to determine for him/herself what is truth and what is fact.
Following the logic of this perverted way of thinking, obviously harmful behavior is now seen as a completely acceptable and equally valid lifestyle. Anyone who challenges or criticize such harmful behavior is labeled conservative and intolerant. The real sad story in all this however is that by going down this road, we are unknowingly destroying our own civilization. The minute a society loses objective truth and embraces relativism, it also destroys the foundation of what made it persevere and flourish in the first place.
People have been wondering for centuries why the mighty Roman Empire fell. Well, we’re currently reliving what they went through towards their end – relativism leads to hedonism which leads to a civilization’s downfall.
Donston
Just remember that there are still plenty of folks who see same-sex sexual interactions as an extreme perversion. Shaming people ain’t gonna do anything for anyone. While if something upsets you that much then it’s best to mind your own business.
None of the things that are going on now is anything new. All these fetishes, perversions and paraphiliacs have been popular for decades. And most “gays” are even particularly into kink. Only someone who bases their views of “gays” on sex workers, Insta-thots or chat rooms would think most “gays” are particularly kinky. Now, if you want to have a legit conversation about sex, fetishes and psyches, fine. But it appears you both (though perhaps it’s just one person) are only interested in shaming and damning. Wanting to have honest discussion about something that disturbs you is one thing. However, it’s clear for you this is more about feeling superior, not understanding people. So, you’re either not a real therapist or you’re a shitty one.
You’re more than likely nothing more than a troll obsessed with shaming people, pulling out fake credentials and multiple handles to give weight to your judgement and resentments. Get a life and some self-esteem. And if you want spark a real conversation don’t pretty much state “Pervy ‘gays’ will be the fall of our civilization”. You dumbass twat. Find a real cause, because expelling energy being an anti-fister ain’t worth it.
WindChime
I can assure you, Scout’s Honor, that I do not know Globetrotter nor are we the same people. I come from the Asian blame culture and I truly believe that to change one’s behaviors, you just keep criticizing, blaming and shaming them until they crush under the societal pressure. They will resist and some of them will commit suicide, knowing what they are into is wrong, but that’s just fine with me.
Donston
Troll all you want. But keep the race shit out of it.
GlobeTrotter
@Donston
“You’re more than likely nothing more than a troll obsessed with shaming people, pulling out fake credentials and multiple handles to give weight to your judgement and resentments. Get a life and some self-esteem. And if you want spark a real conversation don’t pretty much state “Pervy ‘gays’ will be the fall of our civilization”. You dumbass twat. Find a real cause, because expelling energy being an anti-fister ain’t worth it.”
Calling for dialog and understanding and then this piece of rhetoric. Methinks somebody doth protest too much and you need not be a therapist to deduce the reason why.
Donston
I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt until you further revealed yourself to just be a basic and melodramatic asshat. No real “therapist” automatically looks to shame and belittle and dismiss. No therapist broad-strokes entire demographics. And no self-respecting “gay” tries to blame kinky “gays” for some supposed eventual downfall of a civilization. So, either you’re not a therapist, or you’re a shitty one or you’re a very insecure and bitter “queer” who seeks to feel superior to others, instead of assisting to help and understand. Whichever one of those categories you fit into, I’m over this convo.
GlobeTrotter
My advice Donston, quit while you’re still ahead. The more you protest, the more you expose yourself.
Donston
Expose that you’re faking being a doctor on the internet to give credence to your shaming people and claiming “kinky gays” are gonna be responsible for the downfall of western civilization? Too cute. And of course, the sociopath who talked about folks needing to be ostracized and being okay with folks killing themselves over their sex lives you don’t call out.
There is no way to have any real dialog or talk with nuance when it comes to self-righteous, hypocritical lames like yourself. But sorry about that “doc”.
Josh447
Globetrotter,
You’re a right wing control freak. The fall of civilization bc of sex practices of humans that have been prevalent throughout history? Care to back that up? Don’t try, you can’t.
The Roman Empire didn’t fall due to hedonism. It fell due to military, economic and administrative factors. Not one nit about sex.
When you’re desperately trying to act relevant, at least honor the room enough by bringing viable facts to the table.
If you are a phd therapist which I highly doubt as you are not very well read nor are you even somewhat intelligent, your license should be yanked. You have no idea how life works or reality itself. You’re a very destructive human being that could harm many people. I wouldn’t put it past you to initiate a bill to instate the missionary position as the only position to be used for sex, or get jailed. You do have that stink about you.
Is Hitler a distant relative of yours per chance?
Cam
If you click in the bedroom, great! If you don’t, then maybe you would make good friends, no reason to shame either way.
ElPillo
Each flavor has its appeal. Colors and tastes are personal, so drop the stupid argument
lord.krath
Gays being mean and non-accepting? /gasp
Who cares what anyone thinks about ones sexual proclivities? Particularly, other gays.
Good for him or anyone that feels pressured into thinking or advocating one choice over an other, but it’s time people just learn to cope with the reality that we aren’t all the same and, I spite of that obvious detail, there will always be those that push for [sameness] while at once rejecting it.
yup5hioop
covid means no sex and thinking about how religious people are awful human beings 24/7 hand me the vanilla please